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I've shortened the actual headline, "Electric Cars Sell Faster Than Hybrids Did At Same Point", but it's the same point: Check out this graph:

Above is a graph comparing the relative sales volumes of hybrids (starting in 2000) to those of plug-in electric cars (starting in 2011).

It comes from the U.S. Department of Energy, which tweeted the image last Friday.
The 100,000th plug-in electric car sold in the U.S. was delivered sometime during May.

As we note regularly on this site, in 2011, a total of 17,500 plug-in electric cars were sold in the U.S.

Then, last year, the sales total tripled to about 53,000. And this year, they're on track to double again--roughly--to more than 100,000 plug-in cars delivered.


2011: 17,500
2012: 53,000
2013: 100,000 (est.)

Now, I realize that there were about 14.5 million light vehicles (cars/trucks) sold in the U.S. in 2012, so even 100,000 = less than 1% of the total...but things are moving in the right direction.

And as for my personal fave-rave, the Chevy Volt, after a bit of trouble earlier this year, they're back in the game again:

Strong June sales push Chevy Volt ahead of Nissan Leaf for first time since February"

The flash report for monthly sales for the two best-selling plug-in vehicles* is here, and it was a big turnaround month for the Chevy Volt plug-in hybrid. Chevy's halo car sold no more than 1,626 units in any month this year, so June's sales of 2,698 Volts must be a pleasant surprise for the General. It was also the best June sales month ever for the Volt and a 53.3 percent increase over 2012, making it the first time since February that the Volt outsold the Leaf, for those of you keeping a running tally on the two EVs.

The Leaf is also doing very well; the Leaf and Volt are actually neck-and-neck for the first half of the year, having sold just shy of 10,000 units apiece.

Update: As mndan noted in the comments, the news is even better, as sales of Tesla vehicles aren't even included for some reason...but they appear to be on track to sell almost 20,000 "S" models this year!

What’s the best-selling high-end luxury car in the US? If you guess the big BMW, Lexus or Mercedes- Benz sedan, you’d be close to correct. But the top seller actually appears to be the Tesla Model S electric car, with 4,750 sales in the US for the first quarter of 2013, more than half again as much as the Mercedes-Benz S-Class. That’s a stunning achievement for a car company founded in 2003.
Assuming that pace holds steady, that'd be 19,000 Model S's for 2013!

Update x2: OK, sorry about the confusion, but as noted by Assaf in the comments, it looks like Tesla sales ARE included in the graph above after all. Here's the actual breakdown, by both month and manufacturer, of the monthly sales through the end of June.

Even more cool: Note that in 2011, there were only 3 models effectively available in the U.S. (Chevy Volt, Nissan Leaf, Mitsubishi i-MiEV).

In 2012, there were 9 models available (Ford, Honda and Toyata jumped into the game, plus they started counting Tesla). In 2013, we're up to 13 models, and so on.

Originally posted to Brainwrap on Wed Jul 24, 2013 at 06:03 AM PDT.

Also republished by Climate Change SOS, DK GreenRoots, and Good News.

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Comment Preferences

  •  a bit of good news. thanks (13+ / 0-)

    "None of us got where we are solely by pulling ourselves up by our bootstraps" Thurgood Marshall

    by UTvoter on Wed Jul 24, 2013 at 06:09:57 AM PDT

    •  Really happy to see the trendline for EV sales n/t (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      It takes time to practice generosity, but being generous is the best use of our time. - Thich Nhat Hanh.

      by Frank In WA on Wed Jul 24, 2013 at 11:07:22 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I'm always thrilled to see another EV on the road (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      CA Nana, UTvoter

      I've had my Volt for 1.5 years now and I feel no competition to other EVs.

      Having driven 31,000 miles, I have spent a grand total of $24 on gasoline.  I could not be happier with my Volt.  I have saved just over $5,000 in gasoline costs if I did not buy my Volt.   in 4.5 years from now, my Volt will have paid for itself compared to my previous car.

      With all these extra EVs on the road, we really need to have more infrastructure for charging stations and better enforcement when non-EVs park in these limited spaces.

  •  Have owned my Volt for 7 months now. (48+ / 0-)

    Really a great car. A game changer IMO.  In Oklahoma, where everything is spread out (and the only public charge stations I know of are the 2 at Whole Foods), a pure electric car would not work for me with current technology. I commute 80 miles round trip twice a week. The Volt is perfect as I don't have to worry about running out of battery but can still feel great about being part of the movement towards cleaner energy. They are not cheap but, after the tax rebate (which I fortunately was able to take the entire $7,500 for last year) they are right in line with a new fully loaded Accord. AND, I figure that, over 5 years, my gas savings will be at a minimum $8,000 which makes it much cheaper than an Accord.

  •  I still love my Prius (26+ / 0-)

    I just did a 2300 mile trip with three kids, averaging 48 mpg. I work from home, but take long drives for weekend trips or to visit clients. No pure electric will work for me. The Prius is the next best thing: safe, reliable, comfortable and a gas sipper.

    May the Conservative Supremes share Paula Deen's heart-stopping culinary tastes as much as they share her cultural ones.

    by pajoly on Wed Jul 24, 2013 at 06:26:35 AM PDT

    •  Lifetime mpg on my Volt (26+ / 0-)

      right now is running 183.  It was at 189, but I burned a lot of gas on that trip up to Vermont I took last weekend.

      On that roadtrip, by the way, I was averaging just about 45 mpg when it was running in gas mode, 7.4 gallons of gas to go just over 330 miles.

      I love my Volt.

      When the union's inspiration /Through the workers' blood shall run /There can be no power greater /Anywhere beneath the sun /Solidarity Forever!

      by litho on Wed Jul 24, 2013 at 06:51:06 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  When the gas engine is engaged, are you able ... (4+ / 0-)

        ... to tell when the engine is just recharging the batteries and the wheels are still being turned solely by the electric motor, and when the engine is being direct coupled to the drive train; or measure how much of each has been the case?

        Love one another

        by davehouck on Wed Jul 24, 2013 at 07:07:15 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  So my understanding of how the Volt works (9+ / 0-)

          even though the salesmen were a bit vague on the matter, is that the gas engine charges the battery such that the electric motor always provides power to the drive train.

          Depending on which readout I choose to display on the dashboard, I can find out when the battery is being depleted to drive the engine, and when it is being regenerated through braking action.  I normally choose the readout that tells me how many electric and gas miles I have driven and how many kwh and how much gas I have used since the last full charge of the battery. I find that allows me to best modulate my driving in order to maximize my efficiency.

          When the union's inspiration /Through the workers' blood shall run /There can be no power greater /Anywhere beneath the sun /Solidarity Forever!

          by litho on Wed Jul 24, 2013 at 07:24:38 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Kinda sorta. (10+ / 0-)

            Yes, the Volt's electric motor always powers the wheels. But sometimes the gas motor also powers the wheels--by a direct mechanical link, not just by generating electricity for the electric motor.

            This is something GM has not liked to talk about, apparently for PR reasons, which I don't really get.




            "The true strength of our nation comes not from the might of our arms or the scale of our wealth, but from the enduring power of our ideals." - Barack Obama

            by HeyMikey on Wed Jul 24, 2013 at 07:39:52 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Well, it makes it harder to distinguish (5+ / 0-)

              the Volt from a hybrid, but it seems to me to be a silly enough semantic difference that I don't blame GM for fudging it.

              Code Monkey like freedom / Code Monkey like peace and justice too
              Code Monkey very nerdy man / With big warm fuzzy bleeding heart
              Code Monkey like you!

              Formerly known as Jyrinx.

              by Code Monkey on Wed Jul 24, 2013 at 07:58:43 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Exactly. Sometimes including every single... (4+ / 0-)

                ...technical detail doesn't serve any purpose other than to confuse people.

                •  I think it's clear the Volt is a "hybrid." (3+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  radarlady, patbahn, Mr Robert

                  What's the common understanding of the term "hybrid?" What does it usefully mean?

                  I think the only useful meaning is that the vehicle does all of the following:

                  1. burns onboard fossil fuel

                  2. includes an electric motor

                  3. includes some method of capturing, storing, and reusing energy from braking

                  By those criteria, the Volt is a hybrid. Variations: see the other comments on this diary about the Peugeot Citroen compressed-air storage, and diesel-electric locomotives.

                  "The true strength of our nation comes not from the might of our arms or the scale of our wealth, but from the enduring power of our ideals." - Barack Obama

                  by HeyMikey on Wed Jul 24, 2013 at 08:08:46 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                •  Reminds me of when AMD (10+ / 0-)

                  stopped advertising their CPUs in terms of clock speed (i.e. MHz and GHz) and started using “model numbers” that looked a lot like comparable Intel clock speeds. This was to make up for an unfair advantage Intel had: Their processors ran at higher clock speeds than AMD's not because they were ultimately faster but because that's just what their architecture demanded. So a 1200MHz Intel chip might be comparable to a 800MHz AMD chip (just thinking of numbers here), but if you think that MHz means “unit of fastness” you think the Intel chip is better. AMD said screw it, we'll just call ours the Athlon 1200. They were kinda-sorta pulling a fast one, but in the end the difference didn't matter. (Nowadays Intel has also given up the clock speed game as chips with higher clock speeds than ~3GHz are too power-hungry to be viable. So it's all about cramming in more cores and improving efficiency and such.)

                  This has been another edition in the extremely occasional series, When Marketing Makes Things Truer. :-)

                  Code Monkey like freedom / Code Monkey like peace and justice too
                  Code Monkey very nerdy man / With big warm fuzzy bleeding heart
                  Code Monkey like you!

                  Formerly known as Jyrinx.

                  by Code Monkey on Wed Jul 24, 2013 at 08:15:07 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

            •  Not exactly (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:

              From your second link:

              There is no "direct" mechanical linkage between the Volt's gas engine and the wheels, rather there is an indirect linkage that is accomplished by meshing the power output of the engine with the power output of one of the other two electric motors.

              When the union's inspiration /Through the workers' blood shall run /There can be no power greater /Anywhere beneath the sun /Solidarity Forever!

              by litho on Wed Jul 24, 2013 at 08:11:10 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Keep reading. (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                JayBat, patbahn

                GM is straining the ordinary English meanings of "direct" and "meshing." The bottom line is that the gas engine at times transmits torque to the drive wheels via gears (mechanical means) as well as via electric drive. Read my first link above, scroll down to updates 3 & 4, which include commentary on my second link.

                "The true strength of our nation comes not from the might of our arms or the scale of our wealth, but from the enduring power of our ideals." - Barack Obama

                by HeyMikey on Wed Jul 24, 2013 at 08:58:25 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  It is quite clear.... (0+ / 0-)

                if you click on the thumbnail illustration found in the '' link above, that the Volt blends the torque from the two electric motors and the IC engine in exactly the same way that the Prius does -- a planetary gear arrangement.

                You can see the details here:


                If the spokesperson just said "It's a planetary gear system", that would immediately clear up the mystery for those of us who have followed these things over the years. Others, who have not, could then Google "planetary gear" -- problem solved.

                Instead, we get this squishy "no direct linkage" language -- hey, it is gears meshing together -- every bit as direct as a traditional manual transmission!

                Now, a series hybrid is different -- there, the IC engine generates electricity which is stored in the battery or goes straight into the electric motor, which then drives the wheels. That is what most people would call 'indirect'.

                Mark E. Miller // Kalamazoo Township Trustee // MI 6th District Democratic Chair

                by memiller on Wed Jul 24, 2013 at 01:16:33 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Engadget describes it differently (0+ / 0-)
                  The Motor Trend story we've linked to provides the cleanest explanation differentiating Chevy's technology from that used by Toyota on the Prius. Basically, the Volt's ICE is coupled to the ring gear within the transmission, which at times spins up to provide direct mechanical power when the batteries are near depleted. This is important because this is exactly when electric motors are least efficient. Again, this is also contrary to what we were told before, that the ICE would only spin up on-demand to provide extra juice to the electric motor.
                  That's from the link HeyMikey provided above.

                  Engadget in an update links to this

                  As in EV mode the ring gear is decoupled from the case by the clutch and the smaller electric motor is once again allowed to operate in parallel with the large motor, increasing the system’s efficiency. The difference here is that the smaller motor is still being turned by the engine and not electricity. Thus the engine becomes coupled with both electric motors and all three work together to turn the driveshaft. Thus the gas engine participates in turning the wheels mechanically although indirectly. The generator is decoupled from the ring gear again when speeds drop back below 70 mph.
                  Farah, the guy interviewed by plugincars, denies there's a breakpoint at 70 mph, insisting instead that it's a factor of torque, but he doesn't go into great detail.  The key difference, as near as I can tell, between the Volt and Prius schematics you point to is that the Prius only has two motors, one gas and one electric, while the Volt has three, two electric and one gas.  While the planetary gears resemble each other, the existence of the third motor means they function very differently.

                  When the union's inspiration /Through the workers' blood shall run /There can be no power greater /Anywhere beneath the sun /Solidarity Forever!

                  by litho on Wed Jul 24, 2013 at 03:08:58 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  No, that's not the key difference. (0+ / 0-)

                    The first key difference is that the Prius is a parallel hybrid and the Volt is--sold as, and actually mostly--a series hybrid. This is why the controversy about the part-time mechanical link between the engine and the drivetrain. Chevy was claiming the Volt is a series hybrid (gas motor drives electric generator ONLY) but it turns out that's only true part of the time.

                    As I said, I don't get why Chevy is bothering to dance around the true nature of the Volt. Efficiency is efficiency.

                    The second key difference is that you can plug in the Volt, but not the Prius. (At least not till recently; Toyota has recently started selling a plug-in Prius alongside the "regular" Prius.)

                    "The true strength of our nation comes not from the might of our arms or the scale of our wealth, but from the enduring power of our ideals." - Barack Obama

                    by HeyMikey on Wed Jul 24, 2013 at 04:51:21 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

    •  Me too... (0+ / 0-)

      I won't be in the market for an electric car for several years because its a Toyota, and will keep running for 300,000 miles.

  •  I just passed the 28 month mark (24+ / 0-)

    on my Volt and I still love it.  My stats are coming down a tad over the last couple of months due to more frequent lengthy road trips but I'm a touch over 32,000 miles and I've used 101 gallons of gas.  Not too shabby!  Fun to drive as well.  What's not to like?

    The other good news I got this week is that one of my co-workers is going to be the second person at our company to take the EV plunge.  He is taking delivery of a Tesla and I can't wait to get the ride along.

    Cheers to the future!

    We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them. Albert Einstein

    by theotherside on Wed Jul 24, 2013 at 06:27:00 AM PDT

    •  Is there any problem with "stale" gas? (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Gary Norton, SixSixSix

      "There is just one way to save yourself, and that's to get together and work and fight for everybody." ---Woody Guthrie (quoted by Jim Hightower in The Progressive Populist April 1, 2012, p3)

      by CitizenJoe on Wed Jul 24, 2013 at 08:16:07 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  101 gallons total?! (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      For 32k miles and 28 months? I go through that much in about 2 months in my stripped down, relatively efficient Corolla. Incredible!

      •  Yeah, and I'm nowhere near the top Volt performers (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        SixSixSix, BTower, dimpled chad

        You can go to and check out some real stats from Volt owners.  The data is automatically uploaded daily from Volt owners who have decided to share their data.

        I mean some of the stats are mind blowing.  One of the Volts (Plug1N) has 31227 total miles and all but about 140 miles  are on electricity.  Due to EMM's and one year fuel burnoffs it looks like he has probably used about 14 gallons to go those 31,227 miles.

        With that said, I'm not exactly sure why that person didn't just buy a Leaf since they basically use the Volt as an EV but it's a free country!

        We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them. Albert Einstein

        by theotherside on Wed Jul 24, 2013 at 11:11:52 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Lifetime MPG (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          According to the OnStar ap on my phone the wife's volt lifetime is 116 mpg,  I'm at 170.  Mostly because we used hers for all the longer trips in the 9 mos before I got mine.  

        •  PLUG1N, that's me!!! (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          theotherside, BTower, sacrelicious

          I have 139.4 miles on my engine.   About half of that was on my first day of ownership as I had to get home from another state.

          Yes, I could have bought a leaf, but I really did not know I could drive like this.   I have a 40 mile r/t commute and no chance to charge at work.

          I really treat this as a game to see how far I can go without using gasoline.  

           Before my tank went stale last month, I had used 4.6 gallons for 28,000 miles.   I burned off the entire tank until the engine shut off, and I filled it with the minimum to turn off the fuel maintenance which was 1.2 gallons.

          I LOVE THIS CAR!

  •  Just came back from a roadtrip to Vermont (6+ / 0-)

    and my Volt had to fight with a couple of Leafs for the only two Level 2 chargers in town...

    When the union's inspiration /Through the workers' blood shall run /There can be no power greater /Anywhere beneath the sun /Solidarity Forever!

    by litho on Wed Jul 24, 2013 at 06:43:53 AM PDT

    •  i hope you deferred to the leafs (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      fumie, sturunner, sacrelicious

      they need the power, you have a choice.

      you can plug in on a Level 1, and still charge

      •  It's a longer story than that (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Mr Robert, sacrelicious

        The chargers are publicly owned so I went in and asked permission before I plugged in.  The manager told me I was free to use them for as long as I wanted because demand was so low.  I had parked a block and a half away and when I left to get my car one of the chargers was being used by a Leaf but the other was available.  By the time I got back however the second was also in use, by another Leaf.

        I parked my car next to one of the chargers and went to get breakfast.  By the time I got back, the first charger had freed up and I plugged in.  About four hours later the car texted my phone to let me know it had a full charge, and about a half hour later I had time to walk over and move it.

        I did have the Level 1 in the trunk, but finding an outlet to plug into is sometimes a hassle.

        When the union's inspiration /Through the workers' blood shall run /There can be no power greater /Anywhere beneath the sun /Solidarity Forever!

        by litho on Wed Jul 24, 2013 at 11:50:49 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Hybrids aren't a good value (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Crider, patbahn

    The problem is that a smaller well designed gasoline engine is comparable in fuel economy with hybrid designs.  Hybrids are more a marketing ploy, than a real answer.

    Electric cars are the future.  It makes no sense to place two engines in a car, as the added weight reduces fuel economy.

    •  If you're talking about the Prius, I mostly agree (12+ / 0-)

      ...although I don't see them as a "marketing ploy" but a legitimate stop-gap measure to tide things over until the next generation of EV tech is in place (which seems to finally be the case).

      Think of hybrids as the CFL of the auto industry, with LEDs being the true future--they don't live up to the hype, but at least started the process of getting us off of incandescents.

      Anyway, if you're talking about the Volt, that's an entirely different situation--it's a completely different animal from the Prius.

      You probably know the difference, but for those who don't, here's a primer:

      •  Hybrids' undeniable advantage. Using it better. (12+ / 0-)

        The advantage a hybrid has over even a well-designed combustion-only design is that the hybrid captures, stores, and reuses energy from braking. Without that energy capture and reuse, the kinetic energy of the car's inertia (achieved, of course, by burning fuel) is simply wasted as heat via the brakes.

        The problem is that batteries are heavy. Thus some of the recaptured energy has to be used to move the weight of the batteries, thus is not used to move the rest of the car, cargo, and passengers. This is why battery makers are always working on ways to improve the "energy density" of batteries--how much power they store per unit of weight (mass).

        Peugeot Citroen is working on a system that would store the recaptured braking energy in a compressed-air cylinder, instead of in an electric battery. This should be much lighter than an electric battery, thus could have significantly higher energy density. If they can get it to work fairly well, then it may become close to universal.

        "The true strength of our nation comes not from the might of our arms or the scale of our wealth, but from the enduring power of our ideals." - Barack Obama

        by HeyMikey on Wed Jul 24, 2013 at 07:52:53 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  i have my doubts about (0+ / 0-)

          compressed gas energy storage.

          to meet DOT, safety specs, they will be heavy.

          •  An interesting subject... (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            The USA and EU have recently begun negotiations on a possible free trade agreement. Part of that could include a uniform set of safety and emissions standards. Assuming they don't adopt the weakest aspects of both current standards, that absolutely must be a good idea.

            I also wonder about the crash dangers of compressed air or any other compressed gas. But of course auto emissions also degrade health, so it's a tradeoff.

            "The true strength of our nation comes not from the might of our arms or the scale of our wealth, but from the enduring power of our ideals." - Barack Obama

            by HeyMikey on Wed Jul 24, 2013 at 09:44:30 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  Diesel locomotives are hybids (13+ / 0-)

      They're common, tied and true, but I agree it's a bit complicated. I think that, like the diesel locomotive, a hybrid auto with a totally decoupled fixed-rpm diesel engine would be a simpler beast and would get the absolute best mileage. The Volt has a semi-decoupled vaiable-rpm gasoline engine and already gets tremendous mileage.

      Batteries in the lab are achieving  more and more energy density, but it's down to production engineering to get them mass produced as cheaply as possible. Batteries are holding back pure electric.

      "Societies strain harder and harder to sustain the decadent opulence of the ruling class, even as it destroys the foundations of productivity and wealth." — Chris Hedges

      by Crider on Wed Jul 24, 2013 at 07:14:20 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Interesting that you should mention diesel... (6+ / 0-)

        I was reading the weekend NYT article about the new Chevy Cruze diesel, and was struck by the number of manufacturers introducing or expanding their diesel offerings. For our household, given our driving needs, a TDI (50+ mpg on road-trips, 46 mpg overall to date) made the best sense as a stop-gap awaiting improved electric technologies.

        Real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time. (Terry Pratchett)

        by angry marmot on Wed Jul 24, 2013 at 07:22:28 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  For those unfamiliar with TDI ... (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          angry marmot, science nerd
          TDI or Turbocharged Direct Injection is a design of turbodiesel engines, which feature turbocharging and cylinder-direct fuel injection,...

          Love one another

          by davehouck on Wed Jul 24, 2013 at 07:33:43 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  TDI diesels are popular in Europe (4+ / 0-)

            with their great gas mileage. Unfortunately diesel is so expensive in the states that not enough people will take the plunge.

            Hige sceal þe heardra, heorte þe cenre, mod sceal þe mare, þe ure mægen lytlað

            by milkbone on Wed Jul 24, 2013 at 08:04:47 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I had a TDI Beetle for 11 years and loved it. (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              science nerd, patbahn, ladybug53

              My ex totalled it, or I'd still be driving it today.

              55 MPG felt like a great step between the traditional engine and waiting for good electric options.

              Now, I use a zipcar and I book the hybrid whenever possible, but I have to admit that would not buy the ones I've tried because the rear windows feel hazardous to me. They are split horizontally with a bar that blocks your vision and I've had too many cases of feeling unsafe due to that.

              I don't know that I'll ever be able to afford a car again, but I'm glad to see progress with electric options. Though I am worried that we'll just be using coal-powered electricity to recharge.

              Building Community. Creating Jobs. Donating Art to Community Organizations. Support the Katalogue

              by UnaSpenser on Wed Jul 24, 2013 at 08:38:30 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

      •  Not sure that's accurate. (5+ / 0-)

        In diesel locomotives, the diesels drive electric generators, which in turn drive electric motors, which turn the wheels. But there's never any direct mechanical connection between the diesel engine and the drive wheels, and I'm not sure they have any batteries to store energy recovered from braking. So they're electric drive, but not hybrids.

        "The true strength of our nation comes not from the might of our arms or the scale of our wealth, but from the enduring power of our ideals." - Barack Obama

        by HeyMikey on Wed Jul 24, 2013 at 07:43:48 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Isn't that what I said? (0+ / 0-)
          I think that, like the diesel locomotive, a hybrid auto with a totally decoupled fixed-rpm diesel engine . . .

          "Societies strain harder and harder to sustain the decadent opulence of the ruling class, even as it destroys the foundations of productivity and wealth." — Chris Hedges

          by Crider on Wed Jul 24, 2013 at 10:40:18 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Battery is main difference. (0+ / 0-)

            Please forgive me if I'm too hung up on semantics.

            The reason anyone cares about "hybrid" drive in an automotive context is that it enables capture and reuse of braking energy. I don't think that happens in locomotives (though I could be wrong). So yes, locomotives have an electric drivetrain powered by diesel engines, which makes them a "hybrid" in a technical sense; but they lack the main efficiency-boosting feature the average consumer assumes is included in a "hybrid."

            "The true strength of our nation comes not from the might of our arms or the scale of our wealth, but from the enduring power of our ideals." - Barack Obama

            by HeyMikey on Wed Jul 24, 2013 at 11:36:47 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Regenerative braking is only one of several (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:

              reasons why auto hybrids are more fuel efficient.

              The second is that the IC engine stops when you are at a stop light OR decelerating OR traveling at low speed with the battery at a high state of charge.

              The third is more subtle, but actually the most important factor, at least for the Prius, which is the only one I've studied closely -- the extra power from the motor allows the use of a much smaller IC engine than would be needed to accelerate the car if it were the only power source. Therefore, the smaller engine is spending more of its on-time at a higher RPM level that corresponds to its highest efficiency. An IC engine in a traditional car is spending most of its time putting out a tiny fraction of its rated power, and hence in a much lower efficiency regime.

              Mark E. Miller // Kalamazoo Township Trustee // MI 6th District Democratic Chair

              by memiller on Wed Jul 24, 2013 at 01:41:02 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Stop-start spreading to non-hybrids. (0+ / 0-)

                That technology is separate from the hybrid system, and is starting to be offered on more non-hybrids. At least at full stop; not yet for coasting.

                "The true strength of our nation comes not from the might of our arms or the scale of our wealth, but from the enduring power of our ideals." - Barack Obama

                by HeyMikey on Wed Jul 24, 2013 at 04:06:15 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

      •  Still can't understand why Chrysler hasn't taken (0+ / 0-)

        an refined and updated this with new materials and Electronics hook the turbine to a Electric Generator to dump to energy-hog wasteful speed-reduction Gearing System that Turbine Systems have to have to power the drive wheels using the Turbine itself and also solving the Time-lag problem at the same time and produce a Turbine Electric Vehicle.

        •  Oh an in the piece it says it got 13 MPG's that (0+ / 0-)

          might sound bad to read about for those Turbine Cars now-a-days well to give an Idea of what that meant back then I had a '68 Chevy Impala 4-door with a 327 that got 10-12 MPG's "on a good day".

    •  I used to hear this about the Volt (17+ / 0-)

      The argument went something like this.   The Volt is the worst of both worlds.  You carry heavy batteries around with you when you really only need the internal combustion engine and you carry a heavy internal combustion engine when you only need the batteries and electric motor.

      The reality is very much different, IMO.  I can go 50 miles in the Volt daily and never use a drop of gasoline (this is roughly the max electric range but some people go further, most people go shorter distances).   Since I charge up at work and have a 50 mile round trip commute what this means is that I don't use any gas during the week.  When I need to make a 200 mile round trip, I don't need to use my other vehicle or rent a vehicle.  The gas engine has me covered and I can drive as long as there is gas in the 9 gallon tank.  

      So at the present stage of technology, the Volt is an awesome car and actually represents the best of both worlds.  It uses essentially zero gas during the regular commute, which is, what, 80 to 90 percent of the miles travelled, but allows you to go on long hauls as well.

      With that said, as brainwrap explains, pure EV's are much more preferred but the price tag is just a tad high right now.  The Volt will remain a very viable alternative for single car families for a long time.  They will also be an excellent value play until battery costs are reduced significantly.

      So I would disagree with the general dismissal of hybrids.  The Volt is an EREV, an EV, a PHEV, a series hybrid and a parallel hybrid.  It isn't for everyone but it is for a lot of us commuters that want something as nice as a BMW 3 series or an Audi A4 but also want to significantly reduce our carbon footprint and use less gas.

      We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them. Albert Einstein

      by theotherside on Wed Jul 24, 2013 at 07:16:10 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  The flaw in that argument: (0+ / 0-)
        The argument went something like this.   The Volt is the worst of both worlds.  You carry heavy batteries around with you when you really only need the internal combustion engine and you carry a heavy internal combustion engine when you only need the batteries and electric motor.
        Its true that electric motor has to use extra energy to accelerate the weight of the gas motor when the gas motor is not in use. But it reclaims most of that energy during braking.

        So that argument falls flat without having to get into other messy details.

        "What could BPossibly go wrong??" -RLMiller "God is just pretend." - eru

        by nosleep4u on Wed Jul 24, 2013 at 10:03:04 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Proud investor in Tesla, 15 shares (13+ / 0-)

    In my IRA, that's a long play for real. (I'm 26 years old.)

  •  I would love a Chevy Volt (8+ / 0-)

    Most of my trips are 40 miles or less. I drive mainly in the city and have mostly short trips and when I take a long-haul trip I would have the gas engine as back-up. My problem is I don't have anywhere to plug it in. I live in a condominium complex and don't have a garage. Even if I could get my complex to put in an electrical outlet for me to use I'm sure some kids would think it the height of hilarity to unplug my car (cause, kids). I'm sure I'm not the only one with this problem. Around here the housing trend is infilling--tearing down strip malls and building mixed use retail/apartment centers.  

    The ideal would be having charging stations at public transportation hubs (like my local Metro station) or have some charging stations instead of parking meters on the streets,  but I'm sure that's far in the future.

    "That being said, I do agree I am going to hell. But for other reasons. Mostly boring tax stuff ' Amy Pohler

    by Annie B on Wed Jul 24, 2013 at 07:08:55 AM PDT

  •  We're ready for an EV (6+ / 0-)

    A Leaf looks possible, although the local dealers only stock the $40k SL trim model--I could rent a car trailer to bring one home from a dealer farther away, towing it with the pickup my wife says I have to sell.  

    I want a Volt at a Prius price.  I think GM would make million$ if they'd license the Volt technology to any auto maker (think how Apple failed to capitalize on their Macintosh technology back when PC sales boomed).  Great technology but too pricey from GM.  Honda & GM electric cars are not available in my state.  Ford's needs a closer look.

  •  Saw a Tesla S yesterday. (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Brainwrap, davehouck, mattc129, ladybug53

    Drove by me in Marietta, GA (suburb of Atlanta). I've seen several around here.

    "The true strength of our nation comes not from the might of our arms or the scale of our wealth, but from the enduring power of our ideals." - Barack Obama

    by HeyMikey on Wed Jul 24, 2013 at 07:33:25 AM PDT

  •  This is good news! (8+ / 0-)

    EVs still have a long, long way to go to make much impact on the total market, but as more earlier adapters get in the more we'll see investments in maturing the tech for better cars, and more recharging infrastructure set up.

    I suspect that a lot of people would like an EV but still have worries/doubts about something so expensive that is also so different and unfamiliar to them.  I expect things will really pick up in about 2 generations of cars from now (not sure how long an EV car generation will last.  5 years?)

    For me personally I am waiting for better range on the batteries and more proof that the batteries operate well in colder climates (I am in Canada, though a relatively mild area).  When I bought my previous car in 2008 I thought that I would likely move next to a hybrid in around 2016 or so, then EV the rest of my life.  The way things are going I think my next car might be EV.

    •  agree on the cold weather (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      angry marmot, ladybug53

      I'm in Minnesota. It's comparatively warm relative to Manitoba but we still get extreme and/or prolonged cold.

      We have a Honda Insight hybrid in our household now and notice a substantial decrease in fuel economy during the winter months. On an annual average, the car gets about 45mpg. However, on some warm weather trips the car will get in the upper 50s in mpg. The car still operates reliably in cold weather, just not as efficiently.

      In the case of a hybrid I don’t really care about the cold weather penalty because the overall mileage is very good. It would give me pause with an EV though because the weather would have the potential to dramatically affect the range of the car.

      I have looked and not found much firm data on real-world EV performance in cold climates. If it's -15F outside you really, really need to know how far your car can go.

      Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. - Groucho Marx

      by Joe Bob on Wed Jul 24, 2013 at 09:37:37 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  when my 98 camry was at EOL in 2010 (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      i bought a Honda Insight.

      At that point the premium for a hybrid was low
      and the value i thought was good.

      I'd have gotten a volt if it were out that year, but,
      i needed a reliable car and the volts weren't yet in the sales pipeline.

      at this point the Prius is a nobrainer if you are in the market for a compact.  

      if you commute regularly, any of the plug ins look good.

      •  I work from home. Most of my trips are very short (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        IL clb, patbahn

        I think the thing holding many people back is the knowledge that once in a while they take a longer trip somewhere, and the idea of potentially unreliable (or inconvenient ) ability to recharge or having to rent a car just for the trip is off-putting.  That is why longer-lasting batteries and more recharge stations or faster recharge methods are going to be so important.

        •  fortunately the charger networks (0+ / 0-)

          are growing.

          I think the structural priority should be on reliable Level 2 charging at work and at public parking places,
          like the mall or downtown garages,


          until Level 3 fast charge becomes a mature thing,
          it's a little tough to know what to install.

          Tesla is building a proprietary network,
          hopefully other Level 3 chargers will cluster around theirs.

          but, yeah, chargers are an issue.

  •  It's good news, and this is even better news (9+ / 0-)

    Cars whether electric or gas fuelled still require highways and parking space. Many cities in the world have reached "peak car" with no space for one more car.

    Anyone who has been stuck in big-city gridlock lately may find this hard to believe, but millions of Westerners are giving up their cars.

    Experts say our love affair with the automobile is ending, and that could change much more than how we get around – it presents both an opportunity and an imperative to rethink how we build cities, how governments budget and even the contours of the political landscape.

    Indeed, the shift is so gradual and widespread that it's clearly not a product of any “war on the car” or other ideological campaign. Rather, it's a byproduct of a stage of development that cities were probably destined to reach ever since the dawn of the automobile age: Finding themselves caught in an uncomfortable tangle of urban sprawl, population growth and plain individual inconvenience, people, one by one, are just quietly opting out.

    To thine ownself be true

    by Agathena on Wed Jul 24, 2013 at 07:54:07 AM PDT

    •  all that's happening (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      is a reversion to the 20's.

      above a certain population density, the car isn't useful,
      rail is better.

      I live 6 blocks from a train station
      so we use that a lot and the bus, and just drive when it's both of us going somewhere.

  •  Fleet sales are the key (10+ / 0-)

    There are lots of companies with trucks that do defined routes or only service a small area so they can live with the mileage limitations in a single service day. I've seen FedEx trucks here in Chicago, for example.

    Replace those and you not only clean up the air, you get people familiar with electric vehicles.

    The next big target - taxicabs.  I see Prius and natural gas vehicles all over now. Imagine if all the cabs in NYC were suddenly all electric.  Ranges aren't there, but it's getting close.

    "Don't be defeatist, dear. It's very middle class." - Violet Crawley

    by nightsweat on Wed Jul 24, 2013 at 07:54:25 AM PDT

  •  Love My Leaf... (12+ / 0-)

    I was one of the maniacs that pretty much bought the car, sight unseen, when it came out in 2011. While I've gotten used to buying things via the intertubes, the idea of dropping 37K (pre price-drop) on a vehicle I hadn't even DRIVEN was insane.

    I got lucky. :P

    Well, kinda. Buying online teaches you (or at least it should!) to check specs and measurements really closely. Yeah, they could be lies (look up the trials and travails of Zap Cars, for example), but I had hoped Nissan (which I had owned before) would be reputable enough.

    The scariest part of the purchase was the addition of the quickcharger. When I received the car I was dismayed to learn that there was only 1 such charger in all of North America. A year later it was 2. I was starting to think I had dropped 700 bucks for a second port that would never be used.

    Then in the last year the red tape must have unwound, and quickchargers started to pop up EVERYWHERE, and day trips to Petaluma, San Jose and Santa Cruz became feasible and enjoyable.

    All that said, driving past the TESLA plant in Fremont means seeing those pretty Model S cars a lot. Driving up to Fairfield last night I passed one outside of Walnut Creek, which makes me dream of a Model X to replace the "long range" vehicle I own. No wonder the car dealers are fighting TESLA with all their lobbying might.

    •  Love My Leaf as well ...... (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ladybug53, Mr Robert, KenBee

      I placed my deposit for my Leaf (based on specs alone) the winter of 2011 and waited about 7 months for delivery.

      I've owned about 6 different cars including the 1st generation Prius but this is my favorite car by far. Easy  to drive, nimble, comfortable and feels safe.

      I'm getting solar panels for my house in a few weeks and will generate enough renewable power to offset the power I draw from my local utility to charge up my Leaf.

      It takes time to practice generosity, but being generous is the best use of our time. - Thich Nhat Hanh.

      by Frank In WA on Wed Jul 24, 2013 at 11:05:56 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  We have been driving our LEAF since 2011... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      After a long wait (test drive in 2010), we took delivery the last week of September 2011.

      We've driven 17,192 miles so far and love it.  When the lease expires in 2014, we will purchase it or a new one.

      It's difficult to actually calculate energy cost because we've had grid-tie solar power since March 2009, but using the local power utility rate it works out to .019 cents per mile.  Our Prius, at 43 mpg average and $3.50 per gallon is .081 cents per mile, more than 4 times as much.  Maintenance for the hybrid is much higher.

      We have some Tesla envy, but for now this is a very affordable combination.

  •  Love my Volt. Once you own an electric (10+ / 0-)

    car everything else just seems clunky. About 90% of my miles are electric at 5 cents/KwH off-peak. Since I drive between 4 and 5 miles per KwH (difference is winter/summer) my cost is a bit more than a penny a mile.

    More importantly, it is the coolest car I've owned, and I've owned over twenty others ranging from bugs to Acuras and everything in between.

    "Seamless" is the best word to describe driving it. Others are "fun, quick, smooth, quiet," and a "total blast."

    I love having the gas generator so that I never have any range anxiety. I don't want to have to think about how long the trip, especially when I take it skiing.

    Further, affiant sayeth not. 53959

    by Gary Norton on Wed Jul 24, 2013 at 08:32:08 AM PDT

  •  I just say a electric recharge station (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    davehouck, patbahn

    @ Walgreens in Northern Virginia.

    Also - on Virginia I-64 (between Richmond and Norfolk/VA Beach) there are recharge stations at the rest stops.

    Takin it to the Streets! time to GOTV

    by totallynext on Wed Jul 24, 2013 at 08:43:14 AM PDT

  •  BMW i3 with a range extender engine (5+ / 0-)

    BMW i3 is coming to America late this year. A pure electric car. But next year it is getting a small range extender engine to assuage the range anxiety. Though the range extender is not rated for daily use, it will take 3 gallons of gasoline and drive you some 100 miles. So you won't be stuck.

    has been refining a pure range extender engine. An IC engine + an electric generator cast in a single block. Tuned for constant RPM, max efficiency run for long durations.

    With towable range extenders, the electric car market is on the verge of a break out.

    One thing that can help this nascent market immensely if the electricity is priced correctly. Most domestic consumers pay the same rate, day and night. But day electricity is more expensive than night electricity. (Day time the demand is more, it fluctuates a lot, market price varies). If the utilities install meters that will lower the electricity rates at night, it will change the break-even calculations completely. At present the the MPGe (e=equivalent) calculations assume 11 cents per kWh.

    But if the utilities sell it cheaper at night, they stand to grab a huge fraction of the gasoline market.

    •  solar PV will be a big multiplier. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      memiller, sacrelicious

      for vehicles that can get charged off of solar,
      it may be a real game changer.

      stick 2 KW on your roof, charge up, and replace
      gasoline entirely?

    •  I have to read up on range extender engines (0+ / 0-)

      My situation is that my day to day driving would be easily met by a pure electric, but I take four or five road trips a year of over 200 miles. I suppose I could rent a car for those times, but having what you describe for the Lotus looks like an optimal solution for me.

      Somewhat academic, as we have 2003 and 2005 Prii, and will not need to replace those for some years yet!

      Mark E. Miller // Kalamazoo Township Trustee // MI 6th District Democratic Chair

      by memiller on Wed Jul 24, 2013 at 01:27:58 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Electric cars are a select market (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Odysseus, Zinman

    They work well for urban area. Not so well for other areas.
    Fortunately, there are a lot of urban drivers.

    None are so hopelessly enslaved, as those who falsely believe they are free. The truth has been kept from the depth of their minds by masters who rule them with lies. -Johann von Goethe

    by gjohnsit on Wed Jul 24, 2013 at 09:10:35 AM PDT

    •  A lot of urban drivers... (0+ / 0-)

      Yeah, the average commute is 40 mi RT.  Look at all the mobile-source pollution in urban areas.

      I'm part of the "bedwetting bunch of website Democrat base people (DKos)." - Rush Limbaugh, 10/16/2012 Torture is Wrong! We live near W so you don't have to. Send love.

      by tom 47 on Wed Jul 24, 2013 at 09:26:20 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Not "select", but expanding from their urban base (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Zinman, Code Monkey

      For those who can afford it, the Tesla S with its >200 average range should be more than enough for 99% of days.

      For those who are ok with a 4-seater rather than 5-seater, the Chevy Volt is another great solution with the same range capabilities as gas cars.

      There are also quite a few 5-seat plug-in hybrids, although their electric range is quite a bit shorter than the Volt's.

      And ranges keep increasing by about 10%/year across the suite of affordable EV models, while quick-chargers and their technology make the single-charge range less of a hard upper bound than it used to be. For example, for a 100-mile one-way trip you can drive a Leaf for 70 miles, stop for 20 minutes at quick-charge and get another 40 miles or so, reach your destination and recharge fully there.

      In short, barring major tech crises, through the continually expanding combination of solutions in 5-10 years that "range anxiety" demon will be a thing of the past.

  •  Thanks! I was pondering whether to diary this. (5+ / 0-)

    Glad to see someone else took it up.

    I think you might want to un-update your update about Tesla S: I am quite familiar with the numbers, and believe that Tesla S sales are already included. See, e.g., this insideevs monthly sales sheet by model. We wouldn't be anywhere near striking distance of 100k without the Teslas.

    Speaking of which: the smart money right now is on finishing 2013 around 90+k sales. To reach 100k, we would need

    - Nissan making good on their hints that the next few months will be far above the ~2000/month we've seen since March (which is in itself far better than any 5-month period in 2011-2012). It is known that Leaf demand exceeds supply, and the bottleneck is how fast the Tennessee plant (theoretical capacity 150k/year) can ramp up its true capacity to meet it.

    - Tesla not losing too much steam in US sales due to the start of sales to Europe and other overseas markets.

    - The promising sub-compact EV portfolio coming into market this summer, being able to sell at higher volumes and to contribute at least several thousand units in 2013. I'm talking about Chevy Spark EV, Fiat 500e, and Honda Fit EV. All 3 are now backlogged due to demand exceeding supply, and all 3 currently sell only to select West Coast markets.

    If at least 2 of these 3 pan out, we might make 100k in 2013, which would be awesome. Anyway barring major crises, right now 2014 is looking to be even better and surely well above 100k.

    Note that the original publication and graph is from the US Department of Energy. We've had great support for EVs from various departments of the Obama administration.
    Unfortunately, a certain sliver of grassroots progressives have been misled by various factors (including oil-lobby propaganda, ironically) to think that EVs are not a useful and legitimate part of the solution to climate change. Hopefully with enough reality-based blogging about it here, we can help make progressives more enthusiastic about EVs.

    Republishing to Climate Change SOS and DK Greenroots. Besides T and R ing.

    Thanks again!

  •  That's great. :-) (0+ / 0-)

    The hybrid was always merely a transitional step away from oil-powered cars; its best destiny was always to facilitate its own obsolescence. This is wonderful news.

    "Forecast for tomorrow? A few sprinkles of genius with a chance of doom!" -Stewie Griffin

    by quillsinister on Wed Jul 24, 2013 at 09:44:54 AM PDT

  •  On the Electric vs. Hybrid early-market comparison (6+ / 0-)

    Yes, it is arguably pretty close to an "apples to apples" comparison. But to dampen it a bit:

    1. Hybrids were introduced when gas was dirt-cheap around $1/gallon. They really took off in 2004-5 when gas prices jumped. Conversely, plug-in vehicles are going into market when gas is solidly at $4/gallon and showing no sign of ever going back down.

    2. Hybrids were introduced against a "green field" essentially unfamiliar with anything except pure internal-combustion cars, while plug-ins enjoy the partial breaking of psychological barriers by hybrids before them.

    3. Last but not least: now we have less time to spare. Global warming has had over a decade to get even worse, so we do need a far faster ramp-up than the early-hybrid one.

    Meanwhile on the bright side:

    1. Hybrids were introduced at a time of plenty (at least until 9/11), when far more people could afford to buy a new car and even spend a few extra thousand on it. Conversely, plug-ins came onto the mass market in the midst of the Great Recession and its sluggish aftermath, the end of which we're not really seeing yet. To manage this kind of growth despite all this is impressive.

    2. While hybrids offer you energy savings without any additional headaches since they function just like ordinary gas cars - plug-ins and especially pure EVs with their range and charge-speed limitations are a huge psychological leap for the average driver. Despite this, YTD in 2013 pure EV's make up ~60% of plug-in sales, and drive most of the segment's overall growth.

    3. At this point in hybrid history, there were only about 3 hybrid models in the mass market. For EVs and other plug-ins, there are now nearly a dozen viable options, and a few more are about to expand from California/Oregon to the rest of the country.

    4. Due to the disruptive nature of plug-in technology - it is disruptive to gas stations, repair shops, dealerships (partially) and the oil economy in general - the relative impact of increased sales is far greater upon the car market and the economy, than a similar increase in hybrid sales. And we are increasing faster!

    •  I'd add one more thing (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Assaf, ladybug53, memiller

      When the hybrids were introduced, there were a lot of questions about battery life. Lots of people who were interested in the technology were scared away by the prospect of having to replace those very expensive batteries every 50-75k miles. As the early cars aged and that worry proved to be baseless, sales increased. And the reliability of batteries having been proven in hybrids, the path for EVs was made a lot easier. Seems to me, anyway.

      "The NRA says 'guns don't kill people, people do.' But I think that the gun helps." -- Eddie Izzard

      by babaloo on Wed Jul 24, 2013 at 10:48:56 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Elon Musk forecasts 21000 S sales in 2013. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Brainwrap, Assaf
    that'd be 19,000 Model S's for 2013!
  •  Monday morning, I-880 (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    I saw two Tesla Model S sedans, and a Nissan Leaf within about a minute. Granted, that stretch of freeway is quite literally Tesla's backyard, but I'm starting to think we're on to something here. At CSU East Bay yesterday, I saw a charging station with a couple of Leafs (leaves?). I am assuming they were a part of the University's fleet, which means we are getting buy in from both personal and institutional consumers.

    I have to admit that I am kind of stunned by how quickly EVs are catching on.

  •  Wish I could afford an EV. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Mr Robert

    Though as a teacher, there is no way my work would be offering the chance to charge at work! We are always being chided to turn off lights, etc. to keep the electricity bill down.

  •  Two Prius Family here (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    But after reading about the Volt, I may make it my next car.  Over 200K on the 2006 Prius - still gets 47-50 MPG when I drive it.  When my son drives it - it drops to 40-42.  This one is paid off, so I'd like to keep it going.

    2010 Prius gets 49-51 without much effort. This is my wife's car - she drives a lot on her job as an attorney.  

    I LIKE this story!

    "I think 2008 is going to be a good year." Senator Barack Obama - Des Moines, Iowa, January 1st, 2008

    by PoconoPCDoctor on Wed Jul 24, 2013 at 06:43:39 PM PDT

  •  I saw a Tesla the other day for the first time... (0+ / 0-)

    ..."in the flesh" so to speak.  It was an awesome looking vehicle.  

    I wish I could get one, but with my twice a week drive of over 200 miles, it won't work for me.  Yet.  

    For now, we have to suffice with a hybrid.  

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