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The latest attempt by the Pope at window dressing on the Catholic Church’s attitude toward gays is far too little, far too late.
After centuries of denial, the leader of the Catholic Church has finally acknowledged the existence of gays among the flock.
It has been an open secret for generations that the church was home to many gay men. For most of the world the, decades-old pedophilia scandal involving the Catholic clergy exposed the sordid repression of gays in the most secretive, misogynist institution on the planet.
Now, the new pope seems to have received some “wisdom.”
Unfortunately, this is not a moment for rejoicing.
His comments were all about image. There was no substance.
What is he planning to do to stop the hatred and bigotry within his own organization and amongst his millions of followers?
That is a mystery.

What about a plea for forgiveness for the centuries of intolerance, ignorance and fostering hatred toward a group of human beings just because of whom they love?
And an apology for all the lives ruined?
Not much will change.
But the history of the institution he leads has already been written. And it is not a pretty story.
I blogged about this in more detail this morning:Pope on gays: too little, too late.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Tip Jar (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    corvo, prishannah, prfb

    Http://warrenswil.com/wordpress1/

    by Warren Swil on Wed Jul 31, 2013 at 06:29:18 AM PDT

  •  This Pope has started a conversation - an (14+ / 0-)

    Important one.
    I think he gives me a lot of hope.
    His agenda seems aligned with mine, and other progressives.

    How long did it take for the Catholic church to abandon the earth is flat center of universe mantra?

    •  Agree 100%...this is NOT "too little, too late"... (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      filkertom, Timaeus, Catte Nappe

      This is the Catholic Church we're talking about...one that was hostile toward gays under Benedict. I welcome the conversation the new Pope has started

      Adequate health care should be a LEGAL RIGHT in the U.S without begging or bankruptcy. Until it is, we should not dare call our society civilized.

      by Love Me Slender on Wed Jul 31, 2013 at 08:13:51 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  A conversation ... is not enough (0+ / 0-)

      We are way past the point of talking.
      There is no mention of a change of outlook or attitude.
      It was pure PR.
      There will be no follow up.
      I WISH I was as hopeful as you. Afraid I am not.

      Http://warrenswil.com/

      by Warren Swil on Wed Jul 31, 2013 at 09:49:58 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Very simply... (0+ / 0-)

    The priesthood is shrinking.  No marrieds allowed. No women allowed. And, after Benedict was done h8ting, no more Gays allowed in the future.  They have run out of candidates.  The future is grim.  Answer: make believe Benedict didn't exist, and go on as before with a largely Gay clergy.  Francis appears to have seen reality and has tried to stem the immediate problem. Maybe he can wait out the debacle and make his successor the one to deal with it.  Maybe time has already run out.  One thing for sure, without Gay candidates there will be no clergy in 20 years.
    All is demographics. He has seen the light.  That means even Republicans might have to face the facts.

  •  Not only is it too little, (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    S F Hippie, Lost and Found, prfb

    it's nothing.  It's the same Catholic dogma re homosexuality and gays that we've been hearing for generations: "Nothing wrong with the orientation -- except that it's 'objectively disordered' -- but acting on that orientation is sinful."

    Catholics desperate to reopen their wallets are faling for this, but really, nobody should be.

    Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

    by corvo on Wed Jul 31, 2013 at 07:07:26 AM PDT

    •  At best, it's a message to the bishops (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Yoshimi, prishannah, commonmass

      on up that the Catholic teaching on homosexuality is what they are supposed to stick to, NOT use it as a guiding line for the limit of how accepting a Catholic can be and then go off in the other direction to hang out doctrinally with the Phelps clan.

    •  No, the fact that the pope admitted that it is an (5+ / 0-)

      "orientation" is a huge thing. In the context of the interview the pope was asked how he felt about gay clergy in the Vatican. Note that the clergy has a vow of chastity regardless of being gay or straight.

      So once you remove sex from the equation, the pope basically admitted that gays exist and it isn't a matter of choice. His issue is that all clergy hold to their vows of chastity.

      This is a big deal and a turning point.

      •  Keep telling yourself that. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Lost and Found

        Holy Mother Church has been claiming that homosexuality is an orientation for generations now.  Just an "intrinsically disordered" one.

        Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

        by corvo on Wed Jul 31, 2013 at 08:02:00 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  You have to start somewhere. (0+ / 0-)

          Where was this country on homosexuality 20 years ago?

          •  Now that's an apples-and-oranges (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Lost and Found

            comparison if I ever saw one. :-)

            Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

            by corvo on Wed Jul 31, 2013 at 08:15:43 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Okay, how about this (0+ / 0-)

              How does "Who am I to judge?" relate to "intrinsically disordered."

              Reading the whole interview it seems that he recognizes that being gay isn't a choice but that's okay.

              •  you've just stepped in (0+ / 0-)
                How does "Who am I to judge?" relate to "intrinsically disordered."
                a state of theological cognitive dissonance that's at least 2000 years old.  Jesus himself is supposed to have said "Judge not, lest ye be judged," and yet what is a church without the ability to judge?

                Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

                by corvo on Wed Jul 31, 2013 at 12:31:45 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  what is a church without the ability to judge (0+ / 0-)

                  Ye of little faith. Most churches weren't originally founded to judge.

                  •  I think you confuse (0+ / 0-)

                    "belief systems" and "faith communities" -- which sometimes but not always were founded as rigorously controlled cults -- with "churches," which were most certainly founded as power and enforcement structures.

                    Come to think of it, seeing as the first Christian disciples were told to forsake wife and child to follow Jesus, maybe you can tell me how Christianity wasn't originally a rigorously controlled cult itself? ;-)))

                    Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

                    by corvo on Wed Jul 31, 2013 at 12:46:45 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

  •  One way we can demonstrate our (7+ / 0-)

    moral superiority over "Christians" is to show greater generosity and forgiveness than they do. When they finally see the light on fundamental moral issues we should congratulate them.

    I'm pleased and reassured at what Pope Francesco has been saying about murji (non-judgementalism) towards atheists and gays. And I note that he's saying it at the very start of his papacy, and on his own initiative.

    He deserves some positive acknowledgment for this-- not a gratuitous kick in the teeth.    

  •  Was it too little too late to fight for (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    sviscusi, jabney, Matt Z

    gay rights in this country since gay activity had been illegal since the founding of this country?

     

  •  I'm a little uncomfortable with the overlap (8+ / 0-)

    between 'gays' and 'pedophila' in your narrative.

    Disclaimer: If the above comment can possibly be construed as snark, it probably is.

    by grubber on Wed Jul 31, 2013 at 08:00:53 AM PDT

  •  Do you where red shoes? (0+ / 0-)
  •  What!? (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jabney, Matt Z, commonmass

    "the, decades-old pedophilia scandal... exposed the sordid repression of gays "

    You've got no business criticising the Pope or anybody else if you are linking those two things together. You need educating worse than he does.

    “Texas is a so-called red state, but you’ve got 10 million Democrats here in Texas. And …, there are a whole lot of people here in Texas who need us, and who need us to fight for them.” President Obama

    by Catte Nappe on Wed Jul 31, 2013 at 09:08:04 AM PDT

  •  Better late than never... (0+ / 0-)

    ...pre-supposing that Pope is being honest and we see action of course. We can pray I guess...ha!

  •  Sorry Warren, you've got some facts wrong. (0+ / 0-)

    "After centuries of denial, the leader of the Catholic Church has finally acknowledged the existence of gays among the flock." No pope or other Catholic official ever "denied the existence of gays among the flock."

    "It has been an open secret for generations that the church was home to many gay men. For most of the world the, decades-old pedophilia scandal involving the Catholic clergy exposed the sordid repression of gays in the most secretive, misogynist institution on the planet." The pedophile scandal has nothing to do with the "sordid repression of gays." Sexual orientation has nothing to do with pedophilia since the largest incidence of this crime is married men attacking little girls. It has to do with what children are available to the pedophile.

    But yes, his comments ARE all about image and not about substance.

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