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Obamacare repeal
The GOP can still have their pipe dreams.
Rep. Justin Amash (R-MI) isn't all that concerned with repealing Obamcare, and the return of all the discriminatory practices that it ended. Here is on CNN’s State of the Union this Sunday, with Candy Crowley:
CROWLEY: What’s the alternative to those who now find that their preexisting conditions don’t matter, they can still get insurance? What do you say to the 25-year-old that still needs to stay on his parents? What happens to them if Obamacare goes away?

AMASH: Preexisting conditions can be covered. In fact they are covered by some insurance policies.

CROWLEY: Some.

AMASH: But you have to have a competitive—you have to have a competitive marketplace that allows those products to be offered. The way we have insurance now, you’re required to provide a particular insurance product. It creates a monopoly in the system and prices go up. If you want to increase access to health care, you have to have competition.

As a matter of fact, "some" insurance policies cover pre-existing conditions. But most don't, and as ThinkProgress points out in this piece, the June 2013 Kaiser Family Foundation poll found that nearly half of the people it surveyed under retirement age "say they or someone in their household has a pre-existing condition, and many of them report problems related to getting and keeping insurance." A quarter of those people say that they or a family member had insurance denied because of pre-existing conditions. Rep. Amash thinks it's absolutely fine that these people don't get insurance because that's the free market way.

In fact, "some" Republicans who have pre-existing conditions and have been denied health insurance denied get this, because they are forced to live without insurance support Obamacare. It shouldn't have to take a diagnosis of testicular cancer to make a Republican understand that being uninsured can happen to anyone and can be a disaster. Of course, for Republicans it's usually only a disaster if it happens to you.

Originally posted to Joan McCarter on Mon Aug 19, 2013 at 11:19 AM PDT.

Also republished by Daily Kos.

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Comment Preferences

  •  I believe he'll find this to be a losing arguement (9+ / 0-)

    "We the People of the United States...." -U.S. Constitution

    by elwior on Mon Aug 19, 2013 at 11:24:08 AM PDT

  •  He really is a pig, notwithstanding (18+ / 0-)

    his vote on NSA.  I'll take that vote but work to defeat him anyway.  

    Join us on the Black Kos front porch to review news and views written from a black pov—everyone is welcome.

    by TomP on Mon Aug 19, 2013 at 11:27:54 AM PDT

    •  NSA vote: stopped clock rule applicable n/t (7+ / 0-)

      When you are right you cannot be too radical; when you are wrong, you cannot be too conservative. --Martin Luther King Jr.

      by Egalitare on Mon Aug 19, 2013 at 11:33:35 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  He's a libertarian (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        micsimov, daeros

        All he's doing here is showing people the true face of libertarianism.

        •  I fucking can't stand them (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          phenry

          ughhhh.... I thought conservatives were bad

          shivers

          http://www.actblue.com/page/accountabilitynow If the dnc dscc or dccc send you mailers, send that link back to them and tell them you won't send money to people who defend democrats who betray progressive principals!

          by daeros on Mon Aug 19, 2013 at 09:53:33 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  it's a sad day when you're a 27 year old that is (0+ / 0-)

          in their target demographic but you can't fucking stand the idea of joining their bullshit party because you know what happens when you give fratboys and 16 and 18 and 20 year old boys too much leeway.

          And I remember my halyconn days. Vandalism, All sorts of other shit I should have known better then.

          it really makes me hang my head as a liberal because I believe in community and I used to love to shit all over my old ones to stick it to the establishment because rent was too damn high and they were greedy pigs.

          now i get it.

          http://www.actblue.com/page/accountabilitynow If the dnc dscc or dccc send you mailers, send that link back to them and tell them you won't send money to people who defend democrats who betray progressive principals!

          by daeros on Mon Aug 19, 2013 at 09:55:33 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  A true libertarian (0+ / 0-)

          Doesn't aim to regulate women's vaginas and uteri like he does.

          "It always irks when rightwing folk demonstrate in a familial or exclusive setting the values that they deny in a broader social context." Russell Brand

          by CoExistNow on Mon Aug 19, 2013 at 11:57:01 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  He's Also Being Lobbied Pretty Hard (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      TomP, daeros

      ...to run for Carl Levin's Senate seat.  I don't know what his odds would be in the primary... I suspect Gary Peters could beat him in the general election, but Amash brings a lot of "get the US out of the UN" types out to vote who typically don't.  He's a pretty good marketer.

      •  You mean run to displace Terri Lynn Land... (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        TooFolkGR, daeros

        ...as the GOP nominee.

        That primary battle will not end up well for whoever emerges "victoriously." Probably would damage Land more than Amash,  but would wound either going into the General.

        And perhaps spillover into Snyder's re-nomination. Snyder may be tempted to back Amash to keep the TEActivists a little less grumpy.

        When you are right you cannot be too radical; when you are wrong, you cannot be too conservative. --Martin Luther King Jr.

        by Egalitare on Mon Aug 19, 2013 at 11:44:05 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Hey Justin, stick to stopping the NSA from spying (4+ / 0-)

    on Americans and shut up about everything else.  I wasn't crazy about you from the very beginning but I have some respect for you, especially when it comes to civil liberties.  But when you open your mouth and say stupid shit like this, it really makes me root for Democrats to defeat you next year.

    Funny Stuff at http://www.funnyordie.com/oresmas

    by poopdogcomedy on Mon Aug 19, 2013 at 11:31:57 AM PDT

    •  Poopdog says (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      daeros, CoExistNow
      "Hey Justin, stick to stopping the NSA from spyin"
      No , you get the bad tires that go with the car when you buy into Justin , that is why the Libertarian Party can not set anything on the one legged table it is  

      Beer Drinkers & Hell Raisers

      by Patango on Mon Aug 19, 2013 at 05:33:25 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  A Monopoly Is When a Hundred Businesses Have (9+ / 0-)

    some requirement on them?

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Mon Aug 19, 2013 at 11:32:02 AM PDT

    •  Yeah (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Gooserock, worldlotus, daeros, CoExistNow

      "You can't discriminate against sick people" has a monopoly on the insurance market.

      I don't think he knows what that word means.

    •  Exactly! (11+ / 0-)

      Just like state and local health boards are creating a monopoly by requiring that all restaurants maintain food safety standards, rather than allowing for healthy competition between restaurants that don't have e.coli in their burgers and those that do.

      And that damn FAA is creating a monopoly in airlines, by requiring regular maintenance and inspection of airplanes and other safety measures, rather than allowing for healthy competition between planes that don't crash, and planes that do.

      Why does the government create so many monopolies?

      "When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." --Dom Helder Camara, archbishop of Recife

      by JamesGG on Mon Aug 19, 2013 at 11:47:38 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  to be fair health icould benefit from (0+ / 0-)

        more competition

        reforms of the AMA etc to get more doctors etc would be good. we don't have enough

        But not the way these assholes want to go. Hatchet, for scalpel jobs.

        I don't know. they say the AMA is a guild that prevents too many doctors. I know as a liberal the AMA probably does more then just interfere with competition but at the same time i know as a left libertarian they probably have their hands in both cookie jars

        IDK. someone should look into it.

        Killing Obamacare and all regulation isn't the way to increase competition though. There are better ways

        http://www.actblue.com/page/accountabilitynow If the dnc dscc or dccc send you mailers, send that link back to them and tell them you won't send money to people who defend democrats who betray progressive principals!

        by daeros on Mon Aug 19, 2013 at 10:00:18 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  I don't think Mitch McConnell was ever diagnosed (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    phonegery, a2nite, daeros

    with Testicular PRESENCE.

    Ayn sucks. Please know I am not rude. I cannot rec anything from this browser. When I rec or post diaries I am a guest at some exotic locale's computer.

    by Floyd Blue on Mon Aug 19, 2013 at 11:33:00 AM PDT

  •  What these reporters never do is point out that (8+ / 0-)

    Obamacare doesn't mandate that anyone leave behind their private insurance. It's the people who have trouble getting their needs met, their basic healthcare needs, on private insurance, who are helped by Obamacare.  And it might be that "some" insurance companies cover pre-existing conditions--- but the cost of such insurance will be astronomical. Why don't reporters like Crowley point this out?  

    That's one more thing to add to my long list of small problems. --my son, age 10

    by concernedamerican on Mon Aug 19, 2013 at 11:36:14 AM PDT

    •  Because Their Employers are Corporations (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      tampaedski, daeros, CoExistNow

      sponsored by corporations, and some of those sponsors are insurance companies. I don't think citizens do much sponsoring of news corporations.

      We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

      by Gooserock on Mon Aug 19, 2013 at 11:40:58 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Not available at any price (8+ / 0-)

      Used to be (before those nasty new government regulations) that if you applied for individual coverage, the company had the right to turn you down flat for pre-existing conditions. (I've been there.) They didn't just surcharge you, or exclude things that might perhaps be related to the pre-existing thing; they just said "no." It was like people with HIV+ trying to buy life insurance. Forget it.

      Then there was a time when they had to cover you but could charge basically whatever they wanted for the extra risk. That's fine, except "whatever they wanted" turned out to be more than most people earn in a year.

      For group policies, the insurance companies tried very hard to exclude people and groups who they considered high risk. Hairdressers, for example, couldn't get employer group coverage, because the insurance companies figured
      a lot of them were gay men and a lot of gay men have HIV/AIDS so. . . . sorry.

      So yeah, we tried letting the unregulated free market take care of this. And it was a massive failure.

      •  That's the case in our household (6+ / 0-)

        The pre-existing pool made such a huge difference. "Hallelujah, I can walk!" thanks to hip replacement. That work was done 2 years ago, and premiums continue to be paid.

        The result? Improved health and quality of life, probably longer life even. Next up will be cataract work. Both of these making the recipient of the service to be a better contributing member of society overall.

        The willingness to pay was always there. The problem was that no one would sell, just like you said. Big problems when, say, someone wanted to move between states to get a job.

        They keep talking about young, healthy people don't particularly want/need insurance. But that formulation doesn't make sense for a big part of the population called women of childbearing age, no matter whether they want to have a baby or are opting for contraception.

        Mark Twain: It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.

        by Land of Enchantment on Mon Aug 19, 2013 at 01:25:10 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  that's what we need (0+ / 0-)

          pressure on young white boys to vote blue to support women's health.

          I did  by default but i'm the exception to the rule.

          http://www.actblue.com/page/accountabilitynow If the dnc dscc or dccc send you mailers, send that link back to them and tell them you won't send money to people who defend democrats who betray progressive principals!

          by daeros on Mon Aug 19, 2013 at 10:04:30 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  i'm at the point myself where I'm trying to start (0+ / 0-)

          a campaign myself on the basis of what high heels do to women's feet to make the scream at their male suitors and stuff about what those damn things do to their legs and throw it in their face when they are like "I love you"

          You do? Well HUMANIZE me you .... ><

          http://www.actblue.com/page/accountabilitynow If the dnc dscc or dccc send you mailers, send that link back to them and tell them you won't send money to people who defend democrats who betray progressive principals!

          by daeros on Mon Aug 19, 2013 at 10:06:09 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  What a disingenuous asshole. He can't even lie (11+ / 0-)

    well.

    I am so sick of this "competition and the free market will solve everything" bullshit.  Go ride a unicorn while you talk like that.

    Meanwhile, if by some ridiculous stretch of the theoretical, if somehow the free market really did exist, how long would this grand market correction take, before all of our problems are solved?
    Is it instantaneous, once the grand tipping point nexus of competition and market forces are reached; or perhaps it takes a little longer, like 2 years, or 10 years....or 50 years for a market correction???  NOBODY KNOWS!!!  

    See how utterly disingenuous and utterly stupid that argument is??

    Ayn sucks. Please know I am not rude. I cannot rec anything from this browser. When I rec or post diaries I am a guest at some exotic locale's computer.

    by Floyd Blue on Mon Aug 19, 2013 at 11:36:41 AM PDT

    •  ...but we are literally supposed to starve and die (5+ / 0-)

      by the thousands and even millions, while we wait for a market correction that does not even exist.

      OR we could just have something mandated by govt, and allow competitive businesses to deliver it.  But gosh, that goes against all of our capitalist ideals....(unlike govt subsidies to business I guess).

      Ayn sucks. Please know I am not rude. I cannot rec anything from this browser. When I rec or post diaries I am a guest at some exotic locale's computer.

      by Floyd Blue on Mon Aug 19, 2013 at 11:38:22 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  It's the same argument against Medicare (5+ / 0-)

      The reason medicare even exists is that health insurers are loathe to insure old people.  So we get a government supported structure and - viola! - the elderly can get decent, affordable health insurance.

      But pricks like this call this "tyranny".

      I can't recall the exact numbers, but what was the elderly poverty rate before SS was enacted, and what is now that we have SS and Medicare?

  •  as romney said (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    daeros, CoExistNow

    people can always use emergency rooms.

    The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

    by Laurence Lewis on Mon Aug 19, 2013 at 11:38:06 AM PDT

    •  Where have I heard stuff like that before??? (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      daeros, CoExistNow

      Oh yeah,

      ``Are there no prisons?'' asked Scrooge.

      ``Plenty of prisons,'' said the gentleman, laying down the pen again.

      ``And the Union workhouses?'' demanded Scrooge. ``Are they still in operation?''

      ``They are. Still,'' returned the gentleman, `` I wish I could say they were not.''

      ``The Treadmill and the Poor Law are in full vigour, then?'' said Scrooge.

      ``Both very busy, sir.''

      ``Oh! I was afraid, from what you said at first, that something had occurred to stop them in their useful course,'' said Scrooge. ``I'm very glad to hear it.''

      ``Under the impression that they scarcely furnish Christian cheer of mind or body to the multitude,'' returned the gentleman, ``a few of us are endeavouring to raise a fund to buy the Poor some meat and drink, and means of warmth. We choose this time, because it is a time, of all others, when Want is keenly felt, and Abundance rejoices. What shall I put you down for?''

      ``Nothing!'' Scrooge replied.

      ``You wish to be anonymous?''

      ``I wish to be left alone,'' said Scrooge. ``Since you ask me what I wish, gentlemen, that is my answer. I don't make merry myself at Christmas and I can't afford to make idle people merry. I help to support the establishments I have mentioned: they cost enough: and those who are badly off must go there.''

      ``Many can't go there; and many would rather die.''

      ``If they would rather die,'' said Scrooge, ``they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population.

  •  Okay, here is the major fallacy in their argument (10+ / 0-)

    That isn't being pointed out enough; "If you want to have increased access to health care, you have to have competition." Do these idiots realize that health insurance has been around for many decades, and all the competition has STILL NOT MADE HEALTH CARE ACCESSABLE TO MILLIONS??? The health insurance industry has hit its plateau after years of development, and it ain't working.

    "You are beautiful and angular. If you were a gas, you would be inert." - Dieter

    by Fordmandalay on Mon Aug 19, 2013 at 11:41:24 AM PDT

    •  You mean you don't do price comparison... (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      worldlotus, basket, daeros, CoExistNow

      ...with your health care?

      Like wait a minute doctor, how much is it going to cost me for you to stop this heart attack?

      The highest form of spiritual practice is self observation with compassion.

      by NCJim on Mon Aug 19, 2013 at 11:47:18 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Conflation of issues here (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        basket, htowngenie, daeros

        No one asks how much an emergency intervention is going to cost when the crisis is emergent.

        But the fact is that the "marketplace" will not provide health insurance for the high risk population unless it can be balanced with some easy money. To compare that situation with the emergency care of a heart attack is disingenuous at best, and deceitful in all probability.

        (And I'm suspecting that you're being snarky, NCJim...so please don't take offense.)

    •  oh but that competition wasn't allowed to thrive (0+ / 0-)

      in anarcho capitalist conditions. ergo you're strawmanning them

      ergo the phrase "not all libertarians are like that"

      oh they absolutely are.  They'll be a stickler and say this isn't capitalism, it's corporate fascism.

      they seem to think that because they're against corporate welfare they're you know, unique.

      ELECTED democrats might have to suck a few corporate DICKS to get elected but you know who ISN'T in favor of corporate welfare?

      the democratic base.  more over I'd like to think Ben and jerry's is a more socially responsible sponsor then Monsanto and David Koch.

      Frankly I like our billionaires better then there's

      http://www.actblue.com/page/accountabilitynow If the dnc dscc or dccc send you mailers, send that link back to them and tell them you won't send money to people who defend democrats who betray progressive principals!

      by daeros on Mon Aug 19, 2013 at 10:18:33 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  if i have to work for some corporate shill (0+ / 0-)

        i'd be happier scrubbing the decks for hollywood then !@#$ING walmart and yarn barn.

        i'd love to work at ben and jerry's. What the fuck is wrong with giving people a little bit of joy and using that money to lobby against the defense budget?

        http://www.actblue.com/page/accountabilitynow If the dnc dscc or dccc send you mailers, send that link back to them and tell them you won't send money to people who defend democrats who betray progressive principals!

        by daeros on Mon Aug 19, 2013 at 10:22:35 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  It is very simple. (7+ / 0-)

    If you want people with preexisting conditions to get healthcare you only have a few choices:

    1) Have the government cover people with preexisting conditions.

    2) Have the government cover people with preexisting conditions when they are really expensively sick in the ER.

    3) Allow people who think they are healthy not to pay for insurance and when they find out they bet wrong force the rest of us to cover them.

    4) Pretend that people with preexisting conditions are covered and when they get sick let them die.

    5) Medicare for all.

    6) Individual mandate.

    Go ahead Rep. Justin Amash (R-MI) pick one, verbally on TV.  Please proceed Justin.

     

    The highest form of spiritual practice is self observation with compassion.

    by NCJim on Mon Aug 19, 2013 at 11:45:05 AM PDT

  •  The problem with competition (8+ / 0-)

    Is that in the health care market, it just does not work. Imagine someone with a suddenly developed life threatening disease. He is 50 years old, is married, and has two teenage kids, 17 and 13. The lifetime treatment for the disease is going to be somewhere in the neighborhood of $250,000, and he will have diminished capacity at his job for probably the remainder of his career.

    Basically, he will never be able to cover the cost of his treatment while working at his job, and as such, he represents a poor investment for the insurance company. The problem for him is that he has no real leverage over the insurance company. He can't even go up to them and tell them that he would rather not have their product, because that is just fine for the company. They would rather he die than pay for his medical care.

    Republicans seem absolutely unwilling to acknowledge that this situation happens all the time, and that we are all better off with him alive, as a husband and father, than with him dead, and with his family grieving over his loss.

    Do Pavlov's dogs chase Schroedinger's cat?

    by corwin on Mon Aug 19, 2013 at 11:47:09 AM PDT

    •  they believe a race to the bottom of the salary pi (0+ / 0-)

      will solve everything

      that's what it boils down to.

      http://www.actblue.com/page/accountabilitynow If the dnc dscc or dccc send you mailers, send that link back to them and tell them you won't send money to people who defend democrats who betray progressive principals!

      by daeros on Mon Aug 19, 2013 at 10:24:07 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  even if competition "Worked" (0+ / 0-)

      it would drive down pay to doctors etc...

      http://www.actblue.com/page/accountabilitynow If the dnc dscc or dccc send you mailers, send that link back to them and tell them you won't send money to people who defend democrats who betray progressive principals!

      by daeros on Mon Aug 19, 2013 at 10:24:35 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Spoken like a true evil R asshole, like slavery (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    daeros

    & Jim Crow weren't so bad.

    He can go to hell, his god rotten Ronnie is waiting for him.

    nosotros no somos estúpidos

    by a2nite on Mon Aug 19, 2013 at 12:16:10 PM PDT

  •  Let's defeat Justin Amash in 2014 (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    daeros

    Steve Pestka, the 2012 Democratic challenger to Rep. Amash, got 44% of the votes.  We can do better in 2014 damn it!

  •  This Amash loon is a great example of why Repubs (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    murrayewv, daeros, CoExistNow

    shouldn't be supported on anything, even if you agree. I have no doubt that when he runs for re-election he will be touting his bipartisan 'neuter the NSA' amendment and will pick up some 'liberal/progressive' votes.

    •  So you don't support the immigration reform bill? (0+ / 0-)

      What about a bill to stop a shutdown of the government? Or DADT repeal? Or raising taxes on the rich?

      Virtually every policy has some republican supporters. And getting anything through congress requires some bipartisan support. Amash is right on the NSA amendment and wrong on preexisting conditions.

      "Poor man wanna be rich, Rich man wanna be King, and the King ain't satisfied till he rules everything." Bruce Springsteen.

      by Johnnythebandit on Mon Aug 19, 2013 at 03:28:35 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  You make a good point. I wasn't very clear but (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        daeros, CoExistNow

        I was thinking of bills where a GOPer is the lead promoter and which doesn't have the support of the Dem leadership. These bills are almost always traps. If the president or Pelosi had supported it, it would cease to be Amash's amendment and he wouldn't get any political benefit.

        Amash, Sensenbrenner et al are just doing this to stick it to the president. They wouldn't even consider doing it under Bush who was proven to have abused the program.

      •  He's wrong about Everything else. (0+ / 0-)

        This ain't your grandpop's Republican. He is not Gerald Ford, by a longshot.

        "It always irks when rightwing folk demonstrate in a familial or exclusive setting the values that they deny in a broader social context." Russell Brand

        by CoExistNow on Tue Aug 20, 2013 at 12:13:37 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  It's pretty clear from the name-calling (0+ / 0-)

    That most of the commenters have no idea what Amash's positions are on any issue except the NSA.  Pretty ignorant, for progressives.  He is one congressman who actually explains his votes on every vote taken - check his Facebook page. He votes against his party "leadership" more often than you might think.  And, he has not supported the government shutdown drumbeating, despite aspersions to the contrary in the ThinkProgress post from which this post was lifted.  

    Is he being singled out here because he has called out Obama (and senators from both sides) for lying about domestic spying?  I would hope not.

    •  I'm calling him out because his policy (0+ / 0-)

      positions are horrific and have been proven not to work after decades of trying. He is a righteous ideologue and all the explaining of his votes on Facebook isn't going to soften his incredibly ignorant fantasy views on public policy matters.

      There is much this Rep. doesn't get.

      "It always irks when rightwing folk demonstrate in a familial or exclusive setting the values that they deny in a broader social context." Russell Brand

      by CoExistNow on Tue Aug 20, 2013 at 12:16:54 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  We Are Doomed (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Bobs Telecaster

    Now the Republicans will get the pro pre-existing condition vote.

  •  It's a religion (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    daeros

    The Church Of Holy Competition

    Republicans: Taking the country back ... to the 19th century

    by yet another liberal on Mon Aug 19, 2013 at 03:24:49 PM PDT

  •  Libertarian paradise (0+ / 0-)

    In which cars can be sold without wheels that have a tendency to stay on, or without emission standards outside or even inside the vehicle.

    Why? Because the market demands these "products" I tell you!

    Rick Perry - the greatest scientist since Galileo!

    by Bobs Telecaster on Mon Aug 19, 2013 at 03:27:33 PM PDT

  •  How sick is it to not have compassion (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    CoExistNow

    for other human beings who have pre-existing conditions and who probably cannot now get health insurance.  These right wing nutcases are sick persons, without basic feelings of even secular humanist ideals and precepts, much less any christian or religious motivation.  They absolutely disgust me.  Keep them away from me.  Out of my life.  I cannot tolerate such assholes.  

  •  Strangely enough, I find myself actually agreeing (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    starduster

    with him from a purely business position.  The entire concept of insurance is based on risk, and it is not good business practice to take on an actuarial risk that can be avoided.

    Where Rep. Amash and I disagree is that risk should even be considered in what should be universal healthcare.  If healthcare is truly universal, then risk is no longer relevant.  

    And guess what?  If risk is no longer relevant, neither is insurance.*  That's why single payer is the only way a truly universal system makes sense.  Insurance companies, with their unsustainable overhead, are costly and counterproductive.  With their profit-driven policies they create burdens for the medical community and patients alike.

    I have a doctor who will file medicare claims, but who absolutely refuses to be involved with private insurance, other than to provide receipts with information necessary for patients to file claims on their own.  The tug of war with private insurance has become too costly.  With medicare they know exactly what is covered and for how much.  Consequently, as you can imagine, the bulk of this patient's patients are medicare patients.

    *There are exceptions.  As long as patients are responsible for a significant portion of their healthcare, as they are in medicare, "gap" policies are necessary.  For example there is an insurance presence in Canada, small though it is in comparison to the United States.

    Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity -- George Carlin

    by ZedMont on Mon Aug 19, 2013 at 03:39:21 PM PDT

    •  Why should people be denied all insurance (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ZedMont, worldlotus

      just because their PEC may be only one health issue?  For instance, if their PEC is a bad knee, why should they be denied insurance for other health matters having nothing to do with the knee?   Or if a woman has arthritis, why should she be denied insurance for OB-GYN issues?

      My Karma just ran over your Dogma

      by FoundingFatherDAR on Mon Aug 19, 2013 at 03:45:26 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Good point, and I don't know the answer. I don't (0+ / 0-)

        know if they could legally do that, but if they could, I think they would for an otherwise low risk individual.

        On the other hand they would use it as an excuse to deny insurance to someone who, although they had no other pre-existing conditions, would be in a less desirable demographic at higher risk for unrelated conditions.

        But the bottom line is, as I said, I'm opposed to private health insurance as the basis for "universal" healthcare, so in MY system, they wouldn't be denying coverage, because they wouldn't be there.  

        Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity -- George Carlin

        by ZedMont on Mon Aug 19, 2013 at 03:59:27 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  I should add that I don't agree with his claim (0+ / 0-)

      that we shouldn't insure 30,000 people because
      "monopoly."  The only reason he uses the term "monopoly" is that it's a buzz word that sounds negative to the general public.  Worrying about monopolies is not the GOP's strong suit, and Amash is shedding crocodile tears for the "poor consumer."

      Usually, you think of competition as something that reduces costs in a significant way.  But if insurance companies are free to offer products that insure preexisting conditions, they will do it at a premium that is cost-prohibitive for most people. The fact that one cost-prohibitive plan might compete with another is irrelevant to me.

      Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity -- George Carlin

      by ZedMont on Mon Aug 19, 2013 at 03:49:01 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  pre existing conditions (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    skepticalcitizen, CoExistNow

    This is the essence of AAC.  Without this provision, the law is not effective.
    The entire individual mandate is based on this concept being included in the AAC.  The private insurance companies, through their lobby (American Health Plan, Washington DC) insisted upon this.  It was absolutely necessary to them to have many healthy and young people in the risk pool.
    In real life, it is virtually impossible to find an insurance company that will sell an individual an affordable policy if that person has any kind of remotely serious pre existing condition.
    The Congressman is disingenuous in the extreme.  What else would you expect from the GOP?

    "It ain't over till it's over."-Yogi Berra

    by mock38 on Mon Aug 19, 2013 at 03:41:34 PM PDT

  •  argle garble, "competition, bargle, (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    starduster, CoExistNow

    "monopolization," arble barble . . .  Translation:  "If we don't stop Obamacare we're screwed.  Wish we could rename it Romneycare."  

    Life is good. Injustice? Not so much.

    by westyny on Mon Aug 19, 2013 at 04:16:45 PM PDT

  •  I've been fighting pre-existing since 1992! (0+ / 0-)

    Had to battle with TIME Insurance over the usual crap. I know TIME was bad but that job offered no coverage. Have been fortunate enough since then to avoid the pre-existing crap.

    Pre-existing conditions exclusions are the 600# gorilla here.

    Shame on you, Amash.

  •  If Rep Amash loves competition so much (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    CoExistNow

    how about he voices his strong disapproval of the gerrymandering of congressional districts by Republican state legislatures which results in safe and noncompetitive congressional elections?

    I expect we'll be waiting a long time for that.

    •  Got that right. (0+ / 0-)

      He's sitting pretty in his blood red district in Mich. 24 hrs notice for town halls, prescreens the questions and takes only the most tinfoil hat-est questions in the room, i.e.. 'Obama and Holder are buying up the ammo at Cabela's! Obama struck a secret deal with Morsi.'

      "It always irks when rightwing folk demonstrate in a familial or exclusive setting the values that they deny in a broader social context." Russell Brand

      by CoExistNow on Tue Aug 20, 2013 at 12:23:11 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Just to affirm what a joke (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    CoExistNow

    the congressman's comment was

    I am not aware that H C insurers tell you whether they  cover pre existing conditions or not , they only tell you they do not ,  after they take your cash

    I was fully invested in my employers HC plan , had tramatic blah bla hospital stay , I read it before I bought it , had to pay into it for a year before it covered all that

    Long story short

    Got sick , went to hospital , and was denied everything , after the insurance people talked in circles for a month one of them finally says MY EMPLOYER is denying the coverage , not the carrier  

    But what it comes down to with these DC GOP morons is that they refuse to listen to the millions of 1st hand accounts like mine , and basically go on tv and lie to everyone , with our worthless media helping them broadcast their false propaganda

    The GOP and their families who have witnessed all this 1st hand have no shame , and yes I have them in my own family ,unless it happens to their daughter directly , they could really give a rats ass , they are proud to be self centered and hate filled , they see the community as a burden on them , while they suck up all the benefits from being a strong community  

    Beer Drinkers & Hell Raisers

    by Patango on Mon Aug 19, 2013 at 06:21:28 PM PDT

  •  You hit the nail on the head: (0+ / 0-)

    "for Republicans it's usually only a disaster if it happens to you."

    Shop Liberally this holiday season at Kos Katalog

    by JamieG from Md on Tue Aug 20, 2013 at 11:03:31 AM PDT

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