EVERYONE is welcome and please join us each morning at 7:30 AM PACIFIC
to tell us what you're working on, share your show & tell, vent, whatever you want...
...this is an open thread. Nothing is off topic.
Did you know 1904 electric cars were as good as the ones now?
I visited my dad in Denver last weekend and had great time. One thing we did was visit the Colorado History Museum. This is the new museum. The old one was really swell because it had tons of information in a chronological order...fascinating!
The new one has been totally changed so that it's basically a place for school kids. It's interactive so they learn by playing around with interfaces at each station. They get to choose answers to questions after watching a short video. So in that aspect it's cool.
For the rest of us who were used to the old museum it's a bit sad because the old Colorado History Museum was, IMO, more spectacular. The old museum really gave you a ton of information and had most of the entire history, not cherry-picked bits. Oh well...
OK, how about a few tidbits of good 'ol Colorado History then.
Did you know women were allowed to vote in Colorado in 1869 when it was a territory? Colorado became a state in 1876 and women were allowed to vote in the new state in 1893...27 years earlier than in the USA, however they could not vote in national elections. That didn't happen until 1920 as it only then became a federal law.
Did you know electric cars were made in Denver in 1904? Oliver Fritchle made them. He was born and raised in Ohio...moved to Denver then made his cars. At the time the majority of cars in the USA were electric...followed by steam engine cars. Gasoline engine cars were a distant third. http://en.wikipedia.org/...
Oliver was a chemist and battery maker. He created the Fritchle Automobile & Battery Company in Denver and developed many incredible things besides the batteries that drove the cars 110 miles between charges.
More info with pics after the orange New Day cloud.
He invented regenerative braking which uses the force of breaking to make electricity for the batteries (like Prius cars do now...nothing new) and he invented the hybrid drive train...a technology that is now back in vogue in the new hybrid cars of today (again, nothing new).
Fritchle also made hybrid cars in 1915...just like the modern Prius and every other hybrid car of today (nothing new). The unsinkable Molly Brown owned one. The interesting thing is both ends were either the front or back end of the car. They could be driven either direction without turning the car around. All you did was change sides within the car! They were beautiful...like small grand Cinderella carriages.
My dad remembers seeing them driving around Denver when he was a kid. He said they were totally silent, which was really different because any other vehicle made a lot of noise.
The bottom line is Fritchle's electric vehicles were every bit as good as the new modern vehicles (without GPS, sound systems and AC of course) in terms of distance they went on a single charge. The reason is the new modern electric vehicles all use his inventions. The truth is they use the innovations Fritchle created and used in his electric and hybrid cars more than a century ago with some upgrades of course. Cars today are much larger and have lots of electric gadgets.
The problem for Fritchle was a guy named Ford. Fritchle's cars cost $2000. Ford started creating gasoline engine cars on a grand scale and sold them for $700. Plus they could go farther than electric cars...but not farther than Fritchle's hybrid cars. Ford was mass producing cars and so the price was lower. And price always wins.
The new electric and hybrid cars are impressive but really not that much more compared to Fritchle's cars. I sublet a room in my office to a women who just bought herself a brand new 100% electric Toyota SUV. It cost her $53,000 and goes 112 miles between charges...that's it. It's great to drive around locally, but she can't take a trip out of town. And Frichle's cars went between 100 and 110 miles between charges. The more things change, the more they stay the same.
And here's a little secret about hybrids and electric cars Al Gore would call "an inconvenient truth." The carbon footprint of these cars has to include both the "embedded carbon footprint" (the carbon emissions created to make the batteries) and the "indirect carbon footprint" (the carbon emissions created to generate the electricity used as fuel).
The "embedded carbon footprint" for electric cars is sizable, about equal to 80,000 miles of travel in the car...meaning you have to drive it that many miles to get to the break even point of carbon savings to offset that of production of the batteries.
The good news is the average electric car's "indirect carbon footprint" is about six ounces of carbon dioxide per mile while a gas driven car emits twice that...12 ounces per mile.
Hybrids naturally fall somewhere in between both in "embedded carbon footprint" and "direct" (from gas used) + "indirect" (from generating electricity) carbon footprint. Here's a comparison of the carbon footprint for the average lifetime of different types of cars:
Standard gasoline vehicle 27 tons
Hybrid vehicle 23.5 tons
Battery electric vehicle 21.3 tons
I thought a lot about spilling the beans about this, but I figured many would already know this and we don't shy away from reality here ---> the carbon footprint to make the modern batteries used in electric and hybrid cars is actually quite large and must be factored into the total carbon footprint of the vehicle.
The size of "indirect carbon footprint" varies greatly depending upon how electricity is made. If you live in northern California, much of Oregon, Washington or Idaho, where electricity is made largely from hydroelectric plants, the carbon footprint for making electricity is nearly zilch. If you live in West Virginia where coal plants make electricity, the carbon footprint is pretty darn high.
The truth is the carbon footprint of driving a Honda Civic for the life of it would equal the carbon footprint of driving a Tesla S which is a luxury electric car and has the batteries of a luxury electric car.
Driving most gasoline powered cars that get fairly good gas mileage...even the Subaru that I drive...will generate a smaller total carbon footprint than electric vehicles for the first 85,000 to 100,000 miles depending upon how you drive than the combination of both embedded and indirect carbon footprint of an electric car depending on the model.
Sorry to be the harbinger of this "inconvenient truth" about hybrids and electric cars. THE GOOD NEWS IS the total carbon footprint over the lifetime of an electric car or a hybrid car is still going to be less than that of a gas powered car...just not as much as most people think, that's all.
Let's build communities!
Every region needs a meatspace community like SFKossacks.
We take care of each other in real life.
I urge YOU to take the lead and organize one in your region.
Please tell us about it if you do and we're here for advice.
THINK GLOBALLY, ACT LOCALLY
NEW GROUPS IN THE PROCESS OF ORGANIZING:These are the groups that have started since * NEW DAY * began. Please Kosmail navajo if you have started a group before that.
Send a Kosmail to the organizers and ask for an invitation to the group.• Northern Indiana Area: Kosmail Tim Delaney
• Long Island: Kosmail grannycarol
• Northern Michigan: Kosmail JillS
• Nebraska: Kosmail Nebraska68847Dem
• Westburbia Chicago Kossacks: Kosmail Majordomo
• New York Hudson Valley Kossacks: Kosmail boran2
• North Carolina Triangle Kossacks: Kosmail highacidity
• Caprock Kossacks (Panhandle/Caprock/Lubbock/Amarillo area) : Kosmail shesaid
• West Texas Kossacks (including Big Bend Region and El Paso) : Kosmail Yo BubbaNote to the above new leaders: Feel free to leave a comment any day reminding readers about your new group. Also, tell us about your progress in gathering members. Kosmail me when you've chosen a good name for your group and have created a the group. Then I'll move you to the NEW GROUPS LIST. When you've planned a date for your first event I'll make a banner for you to highlight your event in our diaries and your diaries.
NEW GROUPS LIST:
• Kansas City Kossacks - Formed Oct 15, 2012, Organizer: [Founder stepped down]
ESTABLISHED GROUPS LIST: (List will grow as we discover them)
Sunday, Sept 15th
Chicago Kossacks Meet-up at a Powwow!
TIME: 11:30 AM
LOCATION: Chicago's 60th Annual American Indian Center Powwow
Busse Woods Forest Preserve • Elk Grove Village
ORGANIZER: Send figbash a kosmail to attend.
Latest diary: Heads Up Chicago. Our Powwow meet-up is on Sunday
3. Mr. broths
5. Liberal Granny
7. Expat Okie
Saturday, September 21st
Los Angeles Kossacks Meet-up
TIME: 2:00 PM
LOCATION: The Federal Bar
5303 Lankershim Boulevard • North Hollywood
(One block from North Hollywood Red Line Station)
ORGANIZER: Send Dave in Northridge a kosmail to attend.
Latest diary: LA Kossacks: Meetup: September 21, 2:00 PM, North Hollywood, The Federal
1. Dave in Northridge
7. Joe Bacon
9. Gay CA Democrat
11. joe markowitz
DeKalb, Illinois KossacksSaturday, September 21st
DeKalb, Illinois Kossacks Dinner & a Show!
TIME: 5:30 PM
LOCATION: Rosita's Mexican Restaurant
642 East Lincoln Highway • DeKalb
TIME: 7:30 PM
LOCATION: The Stage Coach Players Theater
126 South 5th Street (2 blks. from dinner) • DeKalb
ORGANIZER: Send NormAl1792 a kosmail to attend.
Latest diary: Northern IL Kossacks Dinner and a Show - Saturday, Sept. 21
1. NormAl1792 (on stage as Henry II)
4. Mr. luvs
6. Amber6541's sister
7. 1864 House
Farm Day for Oregon Kossacks! Baby Goat and Goat Cheese Edition
LOCATION: Oregon Gal's farm
Address given privately • Alsea, Oregon
ORGANIZER: Send Oregon Gal a kosmail to attend.
Latest diary: Oregon Kossacks: FARM DAY! (with baby goats)
1. Oregon Gal
2. Sara R
4. Horace Boothroyd III
5. Blue Jessamine
Saturday, September 28th
Indianapolis Kossacks First Ever Meet-up
TIME: 2:00 PM
LOCATION: Shapiro's Deli
808 S Meridian • Downtown Indianapolis
ORGANIZER: Send CityLightsLover a kosmail to attend.
Latest diary: [Waiting for linked diary]
4. Alexandra Lynch
Saturday, October 19th
DKos Asheville Kossacks Meet-up
TIME: 1:00 PM
LOCATION: The Bywater
796 Riverside Dr. • Asheville
ORGANIZER: Send randallt a kosmail to attend.
Latest diary: DKos Asheville - Weekly Open Thread
7. Sandy on Signal
8. Mr Sandy on Signal
11. Mr Alecia
people power granny
One Pissed Off Liberal
Christian Dem in NC
Phil S 33
Sunday, October 20th
MEGA Philly/NJ/NYC Kossacks Meet-up!
LOCATION: Stuff Yer Face
49 Easton Avenue • New Brunswick, NJ
ORGANIZER: Send mconvente a kosmail to attend.
Latest diary: Philly/NJ/NYC Mega Meetup! Initial Information & Interest Diary
2. belinda ridgewood
11. blue jersey mom
aravir and son
Friday, October 25th
LAKossacks & SoCal Inland Empire See Lewis Black!
TIME: 9:00 PM
LOCATION: Agua Caliente Casino Resort & Spa
32-250 Bob Hope Dr. • Rancho Mirage
ORGANIZER: Send 714day a kosmail to attend.
Latest diary: L.A. Kossacks, Lewis Black Fans in So Cal
Friday, October 25th
Meet the Daily Kos Editorial Staff!
TIME: TBD in the PM
LOCATION: Daily Kos HQ
Address given privately to RSVP'ers • Berkeley
ORGANIZER: Send navajo a kosmail to attend.
You will need to bring Potluck. Stay tuned for assignments.
2. Susan Gardner
3. Meteor Blades
4. Faith Gardner
5. Will Rockafellow
and many more staff... stay tuned
8. side pocket
15. remembrance +TLO?
16. Glen the Plumber
21. Dave in Northridge
SFKossacks BBQ in the Wine Country
LOCATION: Andrew McGuire's home in the Wine Country
Address to be given privately to RSVPs • Windsor
1. Andrew McGuire
6. Hunter/elfling offspring
14. Mr. dksbook
17. side pocket
18. Mrs. side pocket
20. ceebee7's sister
21. leema (will carpool from Marin)
22. Meteor Blades
Glen The Plumber
Send navajo a kosmail if you post a diary about an event so we can update our round-up.
Okay. Floor's open.
Tell us what you are doing on this NEW DAY?