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Did you know 1904 electric cars were as good as the ones now?

I visited my dad in Denver last weekend and had great time. One thing we did was visit the Colorado History Museum. This is the new museum. The old one was really swell because it had tons of information in a chronological order...fascinating!

The new one has been totally changed so that it's basically a place for school kids. It's interactive so they learn by playing around with interfaces at each station. They get to choose answers to questions after watching a short video. So in that aspect it's cool.

For the rest of us who were used to the old museum it's a bit sad because the old Colorado History Museum was, IMO, more spectacular. The old museum really gave you a ton of information and had most of the entire history, not cherry-picked bits. Oh well...

OK, how about a few tidbits of good 'ol Colorado History then.

Did you know women were allowed to vote in Colorado in 1869 when it was a territory? Colorado became a state in 1876 and women were allowed to vote in the new state in 1893...27 years earlier than in the USA, however they could not vote in national elections. That didn't happen until 1920 as it only then became a federal law.

women Colorado

Did you know electric cars were made in Denver in 1904? Oliver Fritchle made them. He was born and raised in Ohio...moved to Denver then made his cars. At the time the majority of cars in the USA were electric...followed by steam engine cars. Gasoline engine cars were a distant third.

Oliver was a chemist and battery maker. He created the Fritchle Automobile & Battery Company in Denver and developed many incredible things besides the batteries that drove the cars 110 miles between charges.


More info with pics after the orange New Day cloud.

fritchle batteries
fritchle ad

He invented regenerative braking which uses the force of breaking to make electricity for the batteries (like Prius cars do now...nothing new) and he invented the hybrid drive train...a technology that is now back in vogue in the new hybrid cars of today (again, nothing new).


Fritchle also made hybrid cars in 1915...just like the modern Prius and every other hybrid car of today (nothing new). The unsinkable Molly Brown owned one. The interesting thing is both ends were either the front or back end of the car. They could be driven either direction without turning the car around. All you did was change sides within the car! They were small grand Cinderella carriages.

My dad remembers seeing them driving around Denver when he was a kid. He said they were totally silent, which was really different because any other vehicle made a lot of noise.


The bottom line is Fritchle's electric vehicles were every bit as good as the new modern vehicles (without GPS, sound systems and AC of course) in terms of distance they went on a single charge. The reason is the new modern electric vehicles all use his inventions. The truth is they use the innovations Fritchle created and used in his electric and hybrid cars more than a century ago with some upgrades of course. Cars today are much larger and have lots of electric gadgets.

The problem for Fritchle was a guy named Ford. Fritchle's cars cost $2000. Ford started creating gasoline engine cars on a grand scale and sold them for $700. Plus they could go farther than electric cars...but not farther than Fritchle's hybrid cars. Ford was mass producing cars and so the price was lower. And price always wins.

The new electric and hybrid cars are impressive but really not that much more compared to Fritchle's cars. I sublet a room in my office to a women who just bought herself a brand new 100% electric Toyota SUV. It cost her $53,000 and goes 112 miles between charges...that's it. It's great to drive around locally, but she can't take a trip out of town. And Frichle's cars went between 100 and 110 miles between charges. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

And here's a little secret about hybrids and electric cars Al Gore would call "an inconvenient truth." The carbon footprint of these cars has to include both the "embedded carbon footprint" (the carbon emissions created to make the batteries) and the "indirect carbon footprint" (the carbon emissions created to generate the electricity used as fuel).

The "embedded carbon footprint" for electric cars is sizable, about equal to 80,000 miles of travel in the car...meaning you have to drive it that many miles to get to the break even point of carbon savings to offset that of production of the batteries.

The good news is the average electric car's "indirect carbon footprint" is about six ounces of carbon dioxide per mile while a gas driven car emits twice that...12 ounces per mile.

Hybrids naturally fall somewhere in between both in "embedded carbon footprint" and "direct" (from gas used) + "indirect" (from generating electricity) carbon footprint. Here's a comparison of the carbon footprint for the average lifetime of different types of cars:

Standard gasoline vehicle     27 tons
Hybrid vehicle                    23.5 tons
Battery electric vehicle        21.3 tons

I thought a lot about spilling the beans about this, but I figured many would already know this and we don't shy away from reality here ---> the carbon footprint to make the modern batteries used in electric and hybrid cars is actually quite large and must be factored into the total carbon footprint of the vehicle.

The size of "indirect carbon footprint" varies greatly depending upon how electricity is made. If you live in northern California, much of Oregon, Washington or Idaho, where electricity is made largely from hydroelectric plants, the carbon footprint for making electricity is nearly zilch. If you live in West Virginia where coal plants make electricity, the carbon footprint is pretty darn high.

The truth is the carbon footprint of driving a Honda Civic for the life of it would equal the carbon footprint of driving a Tesla S which is a luxury electric car and has the batteries of a luxury electric car.

Driving most gasoline powered cars that get fairly good gas mileage...even the Subaru that I drive...will generate a smaller total carbon footprint than electric vehicles for the first 85,000 to 100,000 miles depending upon how you drive than the combination of both embedded and indirect carbon footprint of an electric car depending on the model.

Sorry to be the harbinger of this "inconvenient truth" about hybrids and electric cars. THE GOOD NEWS IS the total carbon footprint over the lifetime of an electric car or a hybrid car is still going to be less than that of a gas powered car...just not as much as most people think, that's all.

Let's build communities!

Every region needs a meatspace community like SFKossacks.
We take care of each other in real life.
I urge YOU to take the lead and organize one in your region.
Please tell us about it if you do and we're here for advice.


:: Regions Organizing ::
Send a Kosmail to the organizers and ask for an invitation to the group.
Northern Indiana Area: Kosmail Tim Delaney

Long Island: Kosmail grannycarol

Northern Michigan: Kosmail JillS

Nebraska: Kosmail Nebraska68847Dem

Westburbia Chicago Kossacks: Kosmail Majordomo

New York Hudson Valley Kossacks: Kosmail boran2

North Carolina Triangle Kossacks: Kosmail highacidity

Caprock Kossacks (Panhandle/Caprock/Lubbock/Amarillo area) : Kosmail shesaid

West Texas Kossacks (including Big Bend Region and El Paso) : Kosmail Yo Bubba

Note to the above new leaders: Feel free to leave a comment any day reminding readers about your new group. Also, tell us about your progress in gathering members. Kosmail me when you've chosen a good name for your group and have created a the group. Then I'll move you to the NEW GROUPS LIST. When you've planned a date for your first event I'll make a banner for you to highlight your event in our diaries and your diaries.
These are the groups that have started since * NEW DAY * began. Please Kosmail navajo if you have started a group before that.

California Central Valley Kossacks - Formed: Jul 29, 2012, Organizer: tgypsy

New England Kossacks - Formed: Aug 6, 2012, Organizers:
Clytemnestra for Lower New England (Conneticut, Massachusetts, Rhode Island)
nhox42 for Upper New England (Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont)

Houston Area Kossacks - Formed: Aug 7, 2012, Organizer: Chrislove

Kossacks in India - Formed: Aug 14, 2012, Organizer: chandu

CenTex Kossacks - Formed: Sep 9, 2012, Organizer: papa monzano

Central Ohio Kossacks - Formed: Sep 26, 2012, Organizer: VetGrl

Kansas City Kossacks - Formed Oct 15, 2012, Organizer: [Founder stepped down]

Phoenix Kossacks - Formed Oct 16, 2012, Organizer: arizonablue

Chicago Kossacks - Formed: Oct 31, 2012, Organizer: figbash

Koscadia the Pacific Northwest coast from Northern California to Alaska  
- Formed Oct 17, 2012, Oganizer: Horace Boothroyd III based in Portland, OR

Boston Kossacks - Formed: Nov 7, 2012, Organizer: GreyHawk

Motor City Kossacks South East Michigan (Detroit) Area - Formed: Nov 10, 2012, Organizer:  peregrine kate

Pittsburgh Area Kossacks - Formed: Nov 12, 2012, Organizer: dweb8231

Salt Lake City Kossacks - Formed: Nov 17, 2012, Organizer: War on Error

Twin Cities Kossacks - Formed: Nov 17, 2012, Organizer: imonlylurking

Dallas Kossacks North Texas - Formed: Nov 21, 2012, Admins: Catte Nappe and dalfireplug. Please contact them to join the group. An Event Organizer needed.

The Southern California Inland Empire Kossacks - Formed: Dec 3, 2012, Organizer: SoCaliana

Los Angeles Kossacks - Formed: Dec 17, 2012, Organizer: Dave in Northridge  

Northeast Ohio Kossacks - Formed: Jan 16, 2013,  Organizer: GenXangster

Kansas & Missouri Kossacks - Formed: Jan 17, 2013, Organizer: tmservo433

I-77 Carolina Kossacks who live from Columbia, SC to north of Winston-Salem, NC. - Formed: Jan 30, 2013, Organizers: gulfgal98 and eeff

Indianapolis Kossacks - Formed: Feb 6, 2013, Organizer: CityLightsLover

Southwest Ohio Kossacks - Formed: May 10, 2013, Organizer: Dr Erich Bloodaxe RN

Northern Arizona Kossacks - Formed:  Jul 5, 2013, Organizer: Sam Sara

Mexican Kossacks - Formed: Apr 14, 2013, Organizer: roberb7

ESTABLISHED GROUPS LIST: (List will grow as we discover them)

SFKossacks Founded by navajo, Formed: May 2, 2005

Maryland Kos Founded by timmyc, Formed: Feb 23, 2011. Contact: JamieG from Md for a group invite.

New York City Founded by Eddie C - Contact the group organizer for meet-up events: sidnora

Baja Arizona Kossacks, Event Organizer: Azazello

Three Star Kossacks Tennessee, Founded by maryKK, Formed: Apr 8, 2011

Nashville KosKats, Founded by ZenTrainer Formed: Jan 30, 2012

Virginia Kos Founded by JamieG from Md, Formed: May 3, 2011

Kos Georgia Founded by pat208, Formed: Feb 13, 2011

Colorado COmmunity Founded by Leftcandid, Formed: Feb 13, 2011

New Mexico Kossaks Founded by claude

Philly Kos Founded by mconvente Formed: Aug 29, 2011

DKos Florida Founded by ThirstyGator, Formed: Feb 14, 2011, Currently organizing: Kosmail Vetwife to be included in next event.

Oklahoma Roundup Founded by BigOkie, Formed: Feb 13, 2011, Currently organizing: Kosmail peacearena to be included.

DKos Asheville Founded by davehouck, Formed: Feb 13, 2011 - Organizing Assist by: randallt

:: Events Currently on the Books for ALL Kossacks ::
 photo 9458769247_67df9f567b_b_zps8e4ce86f.jpg
Sunday, Sept 15th

Chicago Kossacks Meet-up at a Powwow!

TIME: 11:30 AM
LOCATION: Chicago's 60th Annual American Indian Center Powwow
Busse Woods Forest Preserve • Elk Grove Village

ORGANIZER: Send figbash a kosmail to attend.

1. figbash
2. broths
3. Mr. broths
4. Satya1
5. Liberal Granny
6. Railfan
7. Expat Okie
8. LeftOfYou
peregrine kate
Millie Neon
Latest diary: Heads Up Chicago. Our Powwow meet-up is on Sunday
 photo TheFederalBar_zps62405873.jpg
Saturday, September 21st

Los Angeles Kossacks Meet-up

TIME: 2:00 PM
LOCATION: The Federal Bar
5303 Lankershim Boulevard • North Hollywood
(One block from North Hollywood Red Line Station)

ORGANIZER: Send Dave in Northridge a kosmail to attend.

1. Dave in Northridge
2. 714day
3. susans
4. otoelbc
5. jakedog42
6. homogenius
7. Joe Bacon
8. chiwere
9. Gay CA Democrat
10. SanFernandoValleyMom
11. joe markowitz
Latest diary: LA Kossacks: Meetup: September 21, 2:00 PM, North Hollywood, The Federal

DeKalb, Illinois Kossacks

 photo LIW_zpsbf83716e.jpg
Saturday, September 21st

DeKalb, Illinois Kossacks Dinner & a Show!

TIME: 5:30 PM
LOCATION: Rosita's Mexican Restaurant
642 East Lincoln Highway • DeKalb

TIME: 7:30 PM
LOCATION: The Stage Coach Players Theater
126 South 5th Street (2 blks. from dinner) • DeKalb

ORGANIZER: Send NormAl1792 a kosmail to attend.

1. NormAl1792 (on stage as Henry II)
2. winifred3
3. luvsathoroughbred
4. Mr. luvs
5. Amber6541
6. Amber6541's sister
7. 1864 House
Calamity Jean
Latest diary: Northern IL Kossacks Dinner and a Show - Saturday, Sept. 21
Tuesday or Wednesday, September 24th or 25th

Farm Day for Oregon Kossacks! Baby Goat and Goat Cheese Edition

TIME: Afternoon?
LOCATION: Oregon Gal's farm
Address given privately • Alsea, Oregon

ORGANIZER: Send Oregon Gal a kosmail to attend.

1. Oregon Gal
2. Sara R
3. winglion
4. Horace Boothroyd III
5. Blue Jessamine
Latest diary: Oregon Kossacks: FARM DAY! (with baby goats)
 photo IndianapolisKossacks_TEXT_zpsbd5f1bbc.jpg
 photo shapiros-deli-logo_zps634b130d.png

Saturday, September 28th

Indianapolis Kossacks First Ever Meet-up

TIME: 2:00 PM
LOCATION: Shapiro's Deli
808 S Meridian • Downtown Indianapolis

ORGANIZER: Send CityLightsLover a kosmail to attend.

1. CityLightsLover
2. annan
3. Mokuar
4. Alexandra Lynch
5. dylanfan
6. zenbassoon
7. Hawksana
Latest diary: [Waiting for linked diary]
Dkos Asheville
Saturday, October 19th

DKos Asheville Kossacks Meet-up

TIME: 1:00 PM
LOCATION: The Bywater
796 Riverside Dr. • Asheville

ORGANIZER: Send randallt a kosmail to attend.

1. randallt
2. davehouck
3. Joieau
4. Gordon20024
5. gulfgal98
6. DawnN
7. Sandy on Signal
8. Mr Sandy on Signal
9. Munchkin
10. Alecia
11. Mr Alecia
12. cultjake
13. flwrightman
Otteray Scribe
Burns Lass
people power granny
One Pissed Off Liberal
Christian Dem in NC
Phil S 33
Latest diary: DKos Asheville - Weekly Open Thread
 photo PhillyKossackLogo_zps9701f239.jpg
 photo stuff-yer-face_zpsa0e4c2a7.png
Sunday, October 20th

MEGA Philly/NJ/NYC Kossacks Meet-up!

TIME: Noon
LOCATION: Stuff Yer Face
49 Easton Avenue • New Brunswick, NJ

ORGANIZER: Send mconvente a kosmail to attend.

1. mconvente
2. belinda ridgewood
3. thankgodforairamerica
4. gchaucer2
5. sidnora
6. rubyr
7. mattc129
8. hayden
9. mallyroyal
10. Avilyn
11. blue jersey mom
12. ericlewis0
aravir and son
No Exit
renzo capetti
Latest diary: Philly/NJ/NYC Mega Meetup! Initial Information & Interest Diary
 photo Rant_vertical_zps3c67418c.jpg
Friday, October 25th

LAKossacks & SoCal Inland Empire See Lewis Black!

TIME: 9:00 PM
LOCATION: Agua Caliente Casino Resort & Spa
32-250 Bob Hope Dr. • Rancho Mirage

ORGANIZER: Send 714day a kosmail to attend.

1. 714day
2. jakedog42
3. susans
4. Otoelbc
Latest diary: L.A. Kossacks, Lewis Black Fans in So Cal
 photo j8g55kwz41yhb62p8iex.jpg
Friday, October 25th

Meet the Daily Kos Editorial Staff!

TIME: TBD in the  PM
Address given privately to RSVP'ers • Berkeley

ORGANIZER: Send navajo a kosmail to attend.
You will need to bring Potluck. Stay tuned for assignments.

1. Markos
2. Susan Gardner
3. Meteor Blades
4. Faith Gardner
5. Will Rockafellow
    and many more staff... stay tuned
6. navajo
7. Lusty
8. side pocket
9. paradise50
10. smileycreek
11. citisven
12. norm
13. Lorikeet
14. kimoconnor
15. remembrance +TLO?
16. Glen the Plumber
17. madhaus
18. dharmasyd
19. ceebee7
20. lineatus
21. Dave in Northridge
22. linkage
23. LinSea
24. Shockwave
25. Eyesbright
26. catilinus
27. Drew
28. justiceputnam

andrew mcguire
Saturday, November 2nd

SFKossacks BBQ in the Wine Country

LOCATION: Andrew McGuire's home in the Wine Country
Address to be given privately to RSVPs • Windsor

ORGANIZER: Send navajo a kosmail to attend.

Andrew McGuire is Executive Director of California One Care

1. Andrew McGuire
2. navajo
3. Shockwave
4. Hunter
5. elfing
6. Hunter/elfling offspring
7. smileycreek
8. paradise50
9. dharmasyd
10. maggiejean
11. norm
12. Lusty
13. dksbook
14. Mr. dksbook
15. kimoconnor
16. jpmassar
17. side pocket
18. Mrs. side pocket
19. ceebee7
20. ceebee7's sister
21. leema (will carpool from Marin)
22. Meteor Blades

Glen The Plumber


Send navajo a kosmail if you post a diary about an event so we can update our round-up.

Okay. Floor's open.
Tell us what you are doing on this NEW DAY?

Originally posted to Connect! Unite! Act! on Thu Sep 12, 2013 at 07:30 AM PDT.

Also republished by SFKossacks.

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