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Simon Shuster/TIME:

The notion of Syria giving up its chemical weapons, or at least putting them under foreign control, has long been on the table in the consultations between Syrian President Bashar Assad’s government and his allies in Moscow. In the course of the civil war that has been raging in Syria for more than two years, “we discussed this possibility many times from many different angles,” says Russian diplomat Andrei Klimov. But it was only in the past week that both Russia and Syria realized that it was in both of their best interests.
times like this remind me that for 2+ years the elite political press obsessed about sarah palin #guideus
@Atrios
PPP had a CO poll they didn't release until after the election. The controversy about that is here (they were hit hard by Nate Silver and others for that),  but the poll itself is fascinating:
What's interesting about our poll is that it didn't find the gun control measures that drove the recall election to be that unpopular. Expanded background checks for gun buyers had 68/27 support among voters in the district, reflecting the overwhelming popularity for that we've found across the country. And voters were evenly divided on the law limiting high capacity ammunition magazines to 15 bullets, with 47% supporting and 47% opposing it. If voters were really making their recall votes based on those two laws, that doesn't point to recalling Giron by a 12 point margin.
More politics and policy below the fold.

Alec McGillis:

“The gun lobby chose their targets well,” Mark Glaze, the director of Mayors Against Illegal Guns, told me last night. “These are tough districts with a lot of guns.” More generally, he said, “It’s the kind of political tactic the gun lobby specializes in, low-turnout elections where the only people interested at the beginning of the process are people who want to throw people out….”

Further playing to their advantage, recall supporters succeeded in barring the use of mail-in ballots, the way that a majority of Coloradans now vote in normal elections.

Colorado results mainly show progressives must figure out way to turn out vote in non-presidential elections.  http://t.co/...
@ed_kilgore
Vladimir Putin, NYT op ed:
Recent events surrounding Syria have prompted me to speak directly to the American people and their political leaders. It is important to do so at a time of insufficient communication between our societies.
BBC:
Russian President Vladimir Putin has made a direct personal appeal to the American people over the Syrian crisis.

In an opinion article in the New York Times, he warns that a US military strike against Syria could unleash a new wave of terrorism.

He says millions of people see the US not as a model of democracy but as relying on brute force.

Later on Thursday, the US and Russia are due to hold talks in Geneva on Syria's chemical weapons arsenal.

WaPo:
With a government shutdown looming in less than three weeks, Republican House leaders conceded Wednesday that they have yet to muster enough votes to approve a plan to keep federal agencies open.

A vote on the measure, set for Thursday, was postponed until at least next week after conservatives balked, demanding that any deal to fund the government include a provision to cut off funding for President Obama’s signature health-care initiative.

Queue the "Dems in disarray" articles from the same press that obsessed over Sarah Palin.
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Comment Preferences

  •  Bob Menendez is nauseous over Putin (9+ / 0-)

    http://www.politico.com/...

    Thanks for sharing Senator

    I want 1 less Tiny Coffin, Why Don't You? Support The President's Gun Violence Plan.

    by JML9999 on Thu Sep 12, 2013 at 04:50:22 AM PDT

  •  Scarborough: Dems lost in 2010 because of ACA.... (17+ / 0-)

    ....and they lost in 2012 for the same reason.

  •  Putin has quite the nerve - slamming America (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Stude Dude

    for its "exceptionalism" then pleading for American  forbearance in its relationship with Syria.  He has become as irritatingly meddlesome as Sarah Palin!

  •  Doktor Dworkin.........it's INCONCEIVABLE!!!.... (5+ / 0-)
  •  Hard to Believe (13+ / 0-)
    "With a government shutdown looming in less than three weeks, Republican House leaders conceded Wednesday that they have yet to muster enough votes to approve a plan to keep federal agencies open."
    I find it hard to believe that there are not enough votes in the House to pass a budget or at least a CR.  Sure Boehner is not going to get a majority of House Republicans to sign on to any bill that doesn't de-fund the ACA and/or doesn't contain further drastic spending cuts in the name of deficit reduction.  But if he were to put forth the Senate's Budget, or something like it, he could get all 200 Dems. to vote yes.  He could also likely get at least 18 out of 235 Republicans to join the Dems. to pass it, especially in the face of a looming government shutdown (there have to be at least 18 "sane" Republicans left who don't want to let the Teabagger crazies in their ranks flush the Republican Party down the toilet with a government shutdown).

    Of course if he were to put forth a Dem-friendly bill and pass it with a few Republican votes, his days as Speaker would likely be numbered, which is what this is REALLY all about (i.e., How to get something passed to avoid a government shutdown without losing my Speakership gig).  It ain't possible John!  You can't avoid a government shutdown without passing a bill that puts your term as Speaker in real jeopardy.

    "Some men see things as they are and ask, 'Why?' I dream of things that never were and ask, 'Why not?"

    by Doctor Who on Thu Sep 12, 2013 at 05:08:11 AM PDT

    •  Yep. (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      skohayes, reginahny, Judge Moonbox

      It looks like they'll need to shut down the government in order to try and defund Obamacare. When it dawns on them that didn't work, they'll have to default on the national debt in order to delay Obamacare. Somewhere along the line they'll need a priest to perform an Obamacare exorcism.

      You will not be punished for your anger. You will be punished by your anger.

      by mstep on Thu Sep 12, 2013 at 06:17:35 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  So let Boehner fall on his sword. (0+ / 0-)

      Get the Senate bill passed then resign his post.  Let the crazies try to elect one of their own and watch them desintegrate.  He can then offer to return to his post a bit stronger than when he left.

      As if that could happen.

      Popcorn sales will explode!!!

      Dream dream dream, dream dream dream

      The republicons moan, the republicons bitch. Our rich are too poor and our poor are too rich. F. Foont

      by Josiah Bartlett on Thu Sep 12, 2013 at 08:30:31 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  This guy is still banging on that pot...... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Bill in Portland Maine, skohayes
  •  27% of Obama voters from 2012 supported the (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    duhban, Stude Dude, Odysseus, skohayes, MRA NY

    recall according to the crosstabs from the PPP poll. According to the county clerk many more Democratic voters turned out than Republican, over 4500 more.

    There's a story here that hasn't yet sunk in.

    Yet Ed Kilgore says,

    Colorado results mainly show progressives must figure out way to turn out vote in non-presidential elections
    Heck maybe get Dems to stay home if they are going to vote for the other team.

    “Conservation… is a positive exercise of skill and insight, not merely a negative exercise of abstinence and caution…” Aldo Leopold

    by ban nock on Thu Sep 12, 2013 at 05:16:26 AM PDT

  •  Feelings on the recall? (4+ / 0-)

    Greg, what is your take on the recall? I am hearing that D turnout beat R turnout by something like 2 to 1, and both elections were in districts that favored Obama, plus the Democratic side outspent the Republicans 6 to 1.

    If the turnout was in fact 2 to 1 in favor of Democrats and every Republican voted against Giron and Morse, that would mean that at least a quarter of the Democratic vote was to get rid of Democrats.

    So, why did Democrats in Obama-favoring districts vote side-by-side with Republicans to oust Democratic legislators? It would seem kind of simplistic (if not insulting) to say that Obama-supporting Democrats were swayed by NRA rhetoric, yet that is the argument some are making.

    •  I think it was a loss for us and without excuse (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Radical Moderate, Judge Moonbox

      the reasons? A special election with low turnout where the dominant issue is one that motivates voters one one side more than the other.

      The question isn't that. It's whether it has applicability to other elections, see comment directly above. Special elections are always special. In CT, the state senator who got our law passed (a Republican) will run for Governor. Go figure.

      Want a sports analogy? Is it like Houston with the Big E (Elvin Hayes) beating UCLA in Houston (perfect conditions), but not in the finals? We might lose every special election like this but how many are like this?

      In any case, background checks were popular but not gun control, whatever that means. I'm for background checks and gun safety.

      And in the end the law is still the law in CO. And CT, NY and CA and...

      "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it!" — Upton Sinclair

      by Greg Dworkin on Thu Sep 12, 2013 at 05:48:00 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  True enough (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Judge Moonbox
        In any case, background checks were popular but not gun control, whatever that means
        I think it means that most gun owners support some or all aspects of background check laws (thus making it a majority view), but they recognize that a vanishingly small percentage of gun crimes involve sufficient shots fired that a high-capacity magazine ban becomes a relevant issue. The difference in support for those two measures in CO is striking, and in a close case like Morse's...who knows?
        And in the end the law is still the law in CO. And CT, NY and CA and...
        Cynically speaking, how many of the people making those laws have the spine to lose their jobs over them, and what message will this send to incumbents looking to get re-elected in 2014? If you are for increased restrictions, you need to let these people know that you are with them. If you are against, let them know that, too. They are there to represent you (collectively, us), after all.

        I think that the recall itself was an abuse of the system. If you do not like the way someone votes on your pet issue, vote against them in the next regular election.

        But either a lot of Democrats were unhappy with Morse and Giron because of one or more aspects of their gun votes, or there is some other discontent with their legislative performance, sufficient to make Democrats vote against them despite being happy with their gun vote. I have not seen any discussion of the latter possibility and wondered if we have any Colorado Kossacks who have a more local impression of what people were thinking.

        •  I'm thinking the same (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Radical Moderate, Judge Moonbox

          all politics is local, and we don't have exit polls the way he did in the NYC mayoral election.

          But I will watch for those explanations.

          "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it!" — Upton Sinclair

          by Greg Dworkin on Thu Sep 12, 2013 at 06:42:09 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Officially what PPP is saying about gun control (0+ / 0-)

          If you fight an election in support of the words "gun control", you lose. If you fight an election on the words "background check", you win. If you fight an election on the words "magazine capacity limit" you come to a tie.

          In other words, the NRA was able to successfully stand up the Democratic bogeyman "coming to get your guns" - again.

          Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves. - William Pitt

          by Phoenix Rising on Thu Sep 12, 2013 at 09:17:22 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  The problem with that (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            FrankRose

            is referenced in my first comment, as the unlikely argument: "Obama-supporting Democrats were swayed by NRA rhetoric". On a straight party line vote, Morse and Giron would have won handily thanks to the 2:1 Democratic vs. Republican turnout.

            The reason they lost is because a significant amount of Democrats went to the polls for the sole purpose of voting against them.

            If the PPP statement is correct, it means that either Democrats oppose gun control and magazine limits sufficiently much that they would rather have Republicans in office, or that the NRA convinced Democrats to stand up to the Democratic bogeyman coming to get their guns.

            Which is why I am curious to see if there is some local aspect to these two legislators that the national viewpoint is overlooking.

            •  In response (0+ / 0-)

              This is the same problem Obama has with the ACA. People dislike "Obamacare" until you explain what it is that they're getting and debunk the crap that Republicans have surrounded it with.

              The NRA has created a successful bogeyman - at least for voters who value their guns. It probably won't hold through a general election next year, but by avoiding talking about the new gun laws, I think the candidates did themselves some harm. There's no reason the PPP survey was any more off in asking these questions than it was in predicting the outcome of the race; "gun control" bad, individual measures actually passed in to law, not so bad.

              As to local issues:
              1) These recalls don't actually change control of the State Senate - it's still in Democratic hands, and possibly more liberal leadership. So the people who voted were the ones who cared enough to vote - and most of those really like guns apparently.
              2) There was a bit of party infighting in the Giron race, but no-one's sure if that actually resulted in anything.
              3) Both of the local papers were stridently in favor of the recalls, and there was a lot of crap printed especially in the Pueblo paper.

              Also note that a statewide poll showed opposition to the recall - this was a local thing and people certainly shouldn't be reading anything national in to it beyond the messaging point that PPP made, and the perpetual crappy response we get from voters during a general election.

              Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves. - William Pitt

              by Phoenix Rising on Thu Sep 12, 2013 at 11:55:26 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

    •  PS I'm guessing with mail in voting (3+ / 0-)

      Morse wins, Giron still loses. But who knows? And what message would that give you?

      "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it!" — Upton Sinclair

      by Greg Dworkin on Thu Sep 12, 2013 at 05:48:56 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Any possibility of vote-rigging? (0+ / 0-)

      I know nothing about these districts -- but if turnout was really that lopsided, do we trust the vote-counting? Anyone who can comment on the technology they use, the integrity of the election officials responsible for the final tally, etc.?

      •  no n/t (4+ / 0-)

        "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it!" — Upton Sinclair

        by Greg Dworkin on Thu Sep 12, 2013 at 05:52:43 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  op-scan or, optionally, DRE with VVPAT (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Judge Moonbox, Josiah Bartlett

        At least that's true in El Paso and Pueblo counties. I think the districts are entirely within those counties, but it's far from my turf.

        It's always possible for scanners to be wrong; in a few cases, they have obviously been wrong. In the cases that come to mind, the election officials found the problems, so their integrity presumably wasn't the issue. And vote-rigging is always a logical possibility, even if the election officials are honest.

        However, if the results looked hinky, I would expect local politicians to notice. What I actually saw was Sen. Morse saying that he was disappointed in the turnout. I don't know of any particular reason to suspect miscounts in the recalls.

        Colorado is supposed to be adopting enhanced post-election audits that would go far toward confirming that vote tabulations yield the correct outcomes -- but the details are still being debated.

        "I am not sure how we got here, but then, I am not really sure where we are." -Susan from 29

        by HudsonValleyMark on Thu Sep 12, 2013 at 08:14:42 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Hacking the vote? (0+ / 0-)

        Seriously folks, the GOP has shown it will do anything to win. How will we keep watch on these people?

      •  Not really (0+ / 0-)

        Colorado has a number of safeguards.

        All machines have paper records. All elections have a manual verification of a sample of the results. Poll judges must be selected from all major parties at the least - and at least two different parties are supposed to track ballots through the process.

        I suppose they could hack the machines or resort to just fudging the numbers, but I haven't heard even the hint of that kind of shenanigans from Democratic poll judges.

        Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves. - William Pitt

        by Phoenix Rising on Thu Sep 12, 2013 at 09:21:07 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Russians talking with Syrians for over two years? (0+ / 0-)

    So much for the Administration rush to claim credit.

    Not too old, but have never seen an Administration implode this quickly.

    Will be interesting to read all the remaindered memoirs in about five years.

    "Toutes les guerres sont civiles, car c'est toujours l'homme contre l'homme... (All wars are civil wars, because it's always brother against brother...)" - Francois Fenelon (1651-1715)

    by Superskepticalman on Thu Sep 12, 2013 at 05:29:24 AM PDT

    •  You think the administration is imploding? (10+ / 0-)

      Please.
      It says to me that Obama is a thoughtful president who realizes that world opinion is against him striking Syria, and is looking for options. Russia and the UN have finally stepped up, and it looks like we have a chance at a peaceful solution.
      If we'd been under a Republican president, Syria would be a hulking pile of rubble right now.

      Your beliefs don't make you a better person. Your behavior does.

      by skohayes on Thu Sep 12, 2013 at 05:43:44 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Had he been truly "thoughtful", he would've not (0+ / 0-)

        dismissed diplomacy right out of hand. Unlike the Russians.

        So since he didn't, he isn't.

        "Toutes les guerres sont civiles, car c'est toujours l'homme contre l'homme... (All wars are civil wars, because it's always brother against brother...)" - Francois Fenelon (1651-1715)

        by Superskepticalman on Thu Sep 12, 2013 at 05:55:35 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Um, the diplomacy has been ongoing (5+ / 0-)

          but of course, that's not news, so it doesn't get covered.

          Your beliefs don't make you a better person. Your behavior does.

          by skohayes on Thu Sep 12, 2013 at 06:15:46 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Good old Vlad- he's such a great diplomat! (3+ / 0-)
          The Russian president strategically emphasizes the role of Islamic extremists in the Syrian conflict. Yes, many rebel groups have committed abuses and atrocities. Yet Putin fails to mention that it is the Syrian government that is responsible for shooting peaceful protesters (before the conflict even started) and detaining and torturing their leaders – many of whom remain detained – and that the continued failure of the international community to respond to atrocities in Syria allows crimes on all sides to continue unaddressed.

          Putin’s plea to use the United Nations Security Council to resolve the conflict sounds great, until you remember that, from the very start of this conflict, Russia has vetoed or blocked any Security Council action that may bring relief to Syria’s civilians or bring perpetrators of abuses in Syria to account.

          http://www.hrw.org/...

          Get it now?

          Your beliefs don't make you a better person. Your behavior does.

          by skohayes on Thu Sep 12, 2013 at 06:24:28 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  What Putin was blocking was UN war authorization (0+ / 0-)

            along with the Chinese.

            You seemed to have missed that.

            "Toutes les guerres sont civiles, car c'est toujours l'homme contre l'homme... (All wars are civil wars, because it's always brother against brother...)" - Francois Fenelon (1651-1715)

            by Superskepticalman on Thu Sep 12, 2013 at 10:37:47 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  Every administration fucks up sometime (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Superskepticalman

      while their in office.  This is Obama's fuck up.

      Let's see how he gets out of it.

      President Obama, January 9, 2012: "Change is hard, but it is possible. I've Seen it. I've Lived it."

      by Drdemocrat on Thu Sep 12, 2013 at 05:46:35 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Let's see... NSA, Syria,... I would think that it (0+ / 0-)

        is about time to try "grand bargaining" Social Security away in the next budget fight with Congress. In other words, this streak continues.

        A one-buck coffee at McDonald's says I win.

        "Toutes les guerres sont civiles, car c'est toujours l'homme contre l'homme... (All wars are civil wars, because it's always brother against brother...)" - Francois Fenelon (1651-1715)

        by Superskepticalman on Thu Sep 12, 2013 at 05:58:04 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Puh-leeze... (6+ / 0-)

          I'm with sko on this one. There have been a lot of good things that came out of the past two terms as well as rough spots. But imploding is not one of them.

          Who ended these two wars?
          Who made the right decisions on getting OBL?
          Who has the GOP pols in batshit crazy mode all this time?
          Who helped Libya when the GOP was dragging it's feet?
          Do I have to say it?.... ACA?

          This is not an administration that hasn't worked it's tail off trying to do the right thing by the people in the face of extreme stonewalling, and sabotage by the GOP.

          "I think it's the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately." -- George Carlin, Satirical Comic,(1937-2008)

          by Wynter on Thu Sep 12, 2013 at 06:25:11 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Yep, it worked "its tail off" keeping single payer (0+ / 0-)

            out of the ACA.

            On the one hand, the GOP doesn't like him because he's black.

            On the other, he doesn't like us because he's an corporatist.

            "Toutes les guerres sont civiles, car c'est toujours l'homme contre l'homme... (All wars are civil wars, because it's always brother against brother...)" - Francois Fenelon (1651-1715)

            by Superskepticalman on Thu Sep 12, 2013 at 07:23:08 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Ummm... (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Wynter, skohayes
              keeping single payer out of the ACA
              Actually, no... it was the Republicans who did that.  That whole "politics" thing, don't you know.
              •  Yep, that whole eleventieth-dimentional chess (0+ / 0-)

                thing. Excuse him because "he hasn't got the power"; defend him by demanding that others "chill out because he has it under control".

                Hope and change meets demands and excuses.

                "Toutes les guerres sont civiles, car c'est toujours l'homme contre l'homme... (All wars are civil wars, because it's always brother against brother...)" - Francois Fenelon (1651-1715)

                by Superskepticalman on Thu Sep 12, 2013 at 08:12:33 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  He was against single payer (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Radical Moderate

                  as a candidate. People should have been paying closer attention before they voted for him, if they thought single payer was ever on the table (neither Clinton nor Obama supported single payer, nor did a majority of Congress).

                  Your beliefs don't make you a better person. Your behavior does.

                  by skohayes on Thu Sep 12, 2013 at 08:26:30 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Your candidate said otherwise... (0+ / 0-)

                    You're done.

                    "Toutes les guerres sont civiles, car c'est toujours l'homme contre l'homme... (All wars are civil wars, because it's always brother against brother...)" - Francois Fenelon (1651-1715)

                    by Superskepticalman on Thu Sep 12, 2013 at 08:34:59 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  you're right (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      Radical Moderate

                      he should have waved his magic wand and forced not only Republicans, but also Dems like Joe Lieberman, to accept something that they would never have accepted, ever.  Then we would have had nothing as opposed to the more limited but significant reform we have now.
                      You're great at sitting on the sidelines throwing stones and shaking your head, but anything else?  Not so much, except demonstrating your massive ignorance on both foreign and domestic issues.
                      You're done, buh-bye!

                      •  Well, in fairness: (0+ / 0-)

                        Throwing stones is easy, and you get to see the results right away.

                        Building with them is hard, and takes a long time.

                        I know which one I prefer.  And fortunately, so does the current president.  :-)

                        Peace out.

                        •  Of course, throwing stones (or bombs, as it were) (0+ / 0-)

                          at Syria is precisely what this President wants to do. He still wants to even after the vast majority of the American people say no. He's going diplomatic only as his own last resort, not his first one.

                          I prefer a President who looks for peaceful solutions to difficult problems. We don't have that President now, if we ever did.

                          Just saying.

                          "Toutes les guerres sont civiles, car c'est toujours l'homme contre l'homme... (All wars are civil wars, because it's always brother against brother...)" - Francois Fenelon (1651-1715)

                          by Superskepticalman on Thu Sep 12, 2013 at 10:33:41 AM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                      •  Bait and switch here: wanting to rely on the "weak (0+ / 0-)

                        president" defense of the bill undercuts his bragging about it. Supporters cannot have it both ways and not look like mindless followers.

                        shohayes: Obama was never for it (wrong).
                        red rabbit: Obama was forced to accept it (wrong).

                        red rabbit has another problem: anything he doesn't like, he/she accuses the other of "sitting on the sidelines." Like what red rabbit is doing right now is not itself "sitting on the sidelines."

                        And coming from a supporter whose object of support no longer enjoys a certain level of support. Looking at the comment history, he/she hasn't even done much sitting, let along doing.

                        Just saying.

                        "Toutes les guerres sont civiles, car c'est toujours l'homme contre l'homme... (All wars are civil wars, because it's always brother against brother...)" - Francois Fenelon (1651-1715)

                        by Superskepticalman on Thu Sep 12, 2013 at 10:30:34 AM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

              •  Secret Constitutional Amendment? (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Superskepticalman

                Democrats had majorities in both houses of the 111th Congress. How could Republicans stop anything? Was there a secret Constitutional Amendment raising the number of votes needed to get anything through the Senate to 60?

                Whatever the reason was, Democrats allowed the filibusters to proceed. They could have demanded straight up or down votes. They could have demanded an all night talkathon like the one Rand Paul later gave. The fact that Establishment Democrats meekly accepted the soft filibusters means that you can't place all the blame on Republicans.

                The furor over Friday's [10.5] job report revealed a political movement that is rooting for American failure, so obsessed with taking down Obama that good news drives its members into a blind rage. -Paul Krugman

                by Judge Moonbox on Thu Sep 12, 2013 at 08:47:32 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

            •  Single Payer wasn't ready for prime time yet... (0+ / 0-)

              As it was clearly not going to pass the Congress. It would be so nice to get everything we dream for the people of the US we can't get it all passed now can we? Those pesky conservatives still exist. At least for a little while still.

              "I think it's the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately." -- George Carlin, Satirical Comic,(1937-2008)

              by Wynter on Thu Sep 12, 2013 at 07:54:57 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Was never going to pass Congress because he never (0+ / 0-)

                fought for it.

                "Toutes les guerres sont civiles, car c'est toujours l'homme contre l'homme... (All wars are civil wars, because it's always brother against brother...)" - Francois Fenelon (1651-1715)

                by Superskepticalman on Thu Sep 12, 2013 at 08:13:13 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Yeah, because he never supported it. (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Wynter

                  You should have paid closer attention when he was running for office.

                  "For us to transition completely from an employer-based system of private insurance to a single-payer system could be hugely disruptive, and my attitude has been that we should be able to find a way to create a uniquely American solution to this problem that controls costs but preserves the innovation that is introduced in part with a free-market system," Obama said in Annandale, Va., on July 1, 2009.
                  Oops.

                  Your beliefs don't make you a better person. Your behavior does.

                  by skohayes on Thu Sep 12, 2013 at 08:29:55 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Oops indeed: your candidate did support it... (0+ / 0-)

                    You're done; back to the OFA phone banks for you.

                    "Toutes les guerres sont civiles, car c'est toujours l'homme contre l'homme... (All wars are civil wars, because it's always brother against brother...)" - Francois Fenelon (1651-1715)

                    by Superskepticalman on Thu Sep 12, 2013 at 08:36:26 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                •  How do you fight for something with THIS Congress? (0+ / 0-)

                  We barely squeaked by with what we got. Realize this and just move on. You sound like the flipside of the 40+ repeals from the House. They can't let it go that it's the law of the land.

                  Yes! Hell Yes! We could have had a One Payer System. That would have been great! But the votes weren't there. Even looking back doesn't change that fact. What we can do is move forward TOWARDS that goal in mind. Looking back and complaining about it doesn't change where we are today. And that's one step closer to what you want.

                  "I think it's the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately." -- George Carlin, Satirical Comic,(1937-2008)

                  by Wynter on Thu Sep 12, 2013 at 02:50:16 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

          •  Some help there for Libya; country's in chaos. n/t (0+ / 0-)

            "Toutes les guerres sont civiles, car c'est toujours l'homme contre l'homme... (All wars are civil wars, because it's always brother against brother...)" - Francois Fenelon (1651-1715)

            by Superskepticalman on Thu Sep 12, 2013 at 07:23:44 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  yeah right, it would be so much better otherwise.. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Judge Moonbox

              with the old regime still in place and running things. What country isn't in chaos in some form in the region?

              Egypt? Nope they are still fighting themselves...
              Israel and the Palestinians? Wishing that was true...
              Syria... well that's where this Arab Spring is happening now.

              So it's pretty much chaos in most places. But let's take a free ride on the GOP talking point wagon and blame the current administration for all the woes.

              "I think it's the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately." -- George Carlin, Satirical Comic,(1937-2008)

              by Wynter on Thu Sep 12, 2013 at 07:53:14 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  So doing something, even if you discover that (0+ / 0-)

                what was done didn't produce a better - only a different - result, is inevitably better than doing something else or nothing.

                "Just break things because you don't like it, without anything better to replace it," in other words.

                No hope (or change) for you; fortunately, you and yours won't matter after Jan. 2017.

                "Toutes les guerres sont civiles, car c'est toujours l'homme contre l'homme... (All wars are civil wars, because it's always brother against brother...)" - Francois Fenelon (1651-1715)

                by Superskepticalman on Thu Sep 12, 2013 at 08:09:42 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  No hope or change (0+ / 0-)

                  Except for people without health insurance or gays, or the green energy industry, or GM....
                  Obama has not been perfect, but he's a HELL of a lot better than the alternative- remember McCain and Palin? How about Romney and Ryan?
                  Think you would have gotten single payer under President McCain?

                  And what does this mean?

                  fortunately, you and yours won't matter after Jan. 2017.

                  Your beliefs don't make you a better person. Your behavior does.

                  by skohayes on Thu Sep 12, 2013 at 08:34:08 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  not good enough (0+ / 0-)

                    not for superskepticalman--he/she doesn't get everything they demand, and they stomp their feet and thrown a giant hissy fit and blame Obama for everything.  
                    Already said he/she hasn't been around very long, and the immaturity and ignorance is showing here.  

                    •  Only ones throwing hissy fits right now are those (0+ / 0-)

                      equaling those not wanting war to those who gassed and murdered Jews, Roma, Poles, and Slavs. Sheer geniuses, these war supporters.

                      Just saying.

                      "Toutes les guerres sont civiles, car c'est toujours l'homme contre l'homme... (All wars are civil wars, because it's always brother against brother...)" - Francois Fenelon (1651-1715)

                      by Superskepticalman on Thu Sep 12, 2013 at 10:36:35 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

        •  LOL (5+ / 0-)

          According to some people on this blog, Obama's been trying to destroy Social Security and Medicare for the past 5 years.
          Still waiting for that shoe to drop.
          And all the diaries in 2010 about double dip recessions, the collapse of commercial real estate market, dogs and cats living together, total world destruction because of Obama!
           photo ifdyouall.jpg

          Your beliefs don't make you a better person. Your behavior does.

          by skohayes on Thu Sep 12, 2013 at 06:31:25 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  if by "fuck up" (0+ / 0-)

        you mean avoiding another military conflict, even if initially unintended, then we should all hope to fuck up like this all the time.  

        •  Oh, make no mistake, Obama was fully intending (0+ / 0-)

          to get his war on. Until We The People said no.

          "Toutes les guerres sont civiles, car c'est toujours l'homme contre l'homme... (All wars are civil wars, because it's always brother against brother...)" - Francois Fenelon (1651-1715)

          by Superskepticalman on Thu Sep 12, 2013 at 10:39:32 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  communications with Syria? (0+ / 0-)

      since when has the U.S. every had good communication or diplomatic relations with Syria?  Not in my lifetime.
      There have apparently been talks between Obama and Putin about the possibility of controlling Syrian's CW, maybe over the past year, although I haven't seen any rush by the administration to claim credit for this whole turn of events.  

      That's not evidence of any "implosion", although you have demonstrated your ignorance on this issue.

      •  Well, unless you're under age 22 (and your (0+ / 0-)

        writing would seem to suggest that), the US had quite good relations with Syria in the run up to the First Gulf War in 1991; Syria was part of the Coalition of the Willing then.

        See: http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...

        But I suspect you weren't a history major, either.

        "Toutes les guerres sont civiles, car c'est toujours l'homme contre l'homme... (All wars are civil wars, because it's always brother against brother...)" - Francois Fenelon (1651-1715)

        by Superskepticalman on Thu Sep 12, 2013 at 10:43:55 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Putin (0+ / 0-)

    When we have the horse's mouth, why do you quote the media -- BBC division?

  •  Politico: The Koch Brother's Secret Bank (5+ / 0-)
    The group, Freedom Partners, and its president, Marc Short, serve as an outlet for the ideas and funds of the mysterious Koch brothers, cutting checks as large as $63 million to groups promoting conservative causes, according to an IRS document to be filed shortly.

    The 38-page IRS filing amounts to the Rosetta Stone of the vast web of conservative groups — some prominent, some obscure — that spend time, money and resources to influence public debate, especially over Obamacare.

    There’s a mystery around us that makes an interesting story,” Short said in an interview in his conference room. “There’s also a vilification that happens that gets exaggerated when your opposition thinks you’re secretive. Our members are proud to be part of [the organization].”

    Read more: http://www.politico.com/...

    As the article notes a few paragraphs later, however,
    those donors aren't SO proud as to allow their names to be published.
    The group has about 200 donors, each paying at least $100,000 in annual dues.

    Your beliefs don't make you a better person. Your behavior does.

    by skohayes on Thu Sep 12, 2013 at 05:48:59 AM PDT

  •  I remain astonished that ODS is so strong (6+ / 0-)

    in this country that Putin can be embraced as a savior as long as Obama gets no credit.  

    I await the scrambling to explain why this American Hero is blocking every effort to achieve his peace-loving goals.  Putin.  He can't afford to lose his base or his oil money and mean old Obama was starting to win his argument internationally.  But it's okay to care about military bases and oil if you're a Russian, only American leaders are imperialist warmongers.  I'm in the fucking Twilight Zone.

    I'm not looking for a love that will lift me up and carry me away. A love that will stroll alongside and make a few amusing comments will suffice.

    by I love OCD on Thu Sep 12, 2013 at 05:50:22 AM PDT

    •  People forget (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      I love OCD, reginahny, Judge Moonbox

      Remember in Chechnya in 2012, Putin got 99.89% of the vote- and would have gotten more, except that some ballots were spoiled.

      Just down the road from the café, one human rights activist was prepared to contradict him, though not to have his name used. “There are 420 inhabited places in Chechnya and, on Putin’s orders, all 420 were bombed,” he told me. “In the 1990s, it was possible to escape and some places were spared. Under Putin, however, no­where escaped the bombing.

      “There is not one family that did not lose someone and to say that 99 point something of Chechens supported Putin is gibberish,” he continued. “Maybe some officials voted for him so as to keep their jobs, but the rest is nonsense.” The activist warned me not to take the publicly expressed opinions of Chechens too seriously.

      http://www.newstatesman.com/...

      Your beliefs don't make you a better person. Your behavior does.

      by skohayes on Thu Sep 12, 2013 at 06:10:44 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Well according to Kossaks it's (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        skohayes

        okay to be a war criminal if you're Russian, the true crime is not prosecuting Cheney.  CHENEEEY!!!!! Is the left's BEGHAAAAZI!!!!, and just as reality based.

        I'm not looking for a love that will lift me up and carry me away. A love that will stroll alongside and make a few amusing comments will suffice.

        by I love OCD on Thu Sep 12, 2013 at 06:16:18 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Hmm. Opposition to war is ODS. So 2008. n/t (0+ / 0-)

      "Toutes les guerres sont civiles, car c'est toujours l'homme contre l'homme... (All wars are civil wars, because it's always brother against brother...)" - Francois Fenelon (1651-1715)

      by Superskepticalman on Thu Sep 12, 2013 at 10:46:31 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Sure, that's exactly what I said. (0+ / 0-)

        I find it offensive that a true war criminal gets more praise here than we can muster up for President Obama, because he didn't prosecute people we consider prosecutable for war crimes, based on evidence pulled directly out of some pundit's ass.  

        Our moral high ground just fell into a sinkhole.  Clear enough?  

        Obama and Kerry deserve credit for squeezing Putin into a corner tight enough that he had to agree to ANYTHING that might save Assad's ass.  I can hardly wait to see how you scramble to explain how peace-loving Putin is blocking every avenue to a diplomatic solution that might actually result in less death, fewer Syrians without homes, a slightly more stable world.  I suspect that it will be Obama's fault, that you will be able to link the collapse of diplomacy to some evil machinations no one can prove but you'll happily swallow.

        I'm not looking for a love that will lift me up and carry me away. A love that will stroll alongside and make a few amusing comments will suffice.

        by I love OCD on Thu Sep 12, 2013 at 12:53:58 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  People who can avoid unnecessary bloodshed (0+ / 0-)

          deserve a little credit, even if their motives are rooted in national self-interest. And evidence of lying to start an aggressive war of choice is not something pulled out anyone's ass, unless that ass is, of course, Dick Cheney, Dubya, and their cast of minions. And unless you don't think that Abu Ghraib was not a war crime. Or endless detention at Guantanamo Bay without valid evidence is not a war crime.

          And the only squeezing done here has been on both Kerry and Obama, and for anyone to suggest that it was Obama who pulled this off is struggling with a fandom that no longer has a quality worth sacrificing one's intellectual integrity for. Obama's speech earlier this week was as tin-eared as it was baldly angry.

          Jan. 20, 2007, is as very far away for some as it can't come soon enough for others. Not that Hillary is much better. The US will get out of the empire business is the worst way possible. We need better Democrats; not this bunch.

          "Toutes les guerres sont civiles, car c'est toujours l'homme contre l'homme... (All wars are civil wars, because it's always brother against brother...)" - Francois Fenelon (1651-1715)

          by Superskepticalman on Thu Sep 12, 2013 at 01:12:44 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I hope for your sake Elizabeth Warren (0+ / 0-)

            And Bernie Sanders never win the Presidency.  The reality of your True Progressive heroes compromising, negotiating, accepting less than what they'd hoped for might put you on life support.  

            If you don't know or can't accept that Obama's been working for this exact diplomatic solution for 2 years you just aren't paying attention.  

            I credit Putin with this: a hundred thousand Syrians dead, a million refugees, no humanitarian aid, no peacekeeping mission.  

            I'm not looking for a love that will lift me up and carry me away. A love that will stroll alongside and make a few amusing comments will suffice.

            by I love OCD on Thu Sep 12, 2013 at 04:23:24 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  Boulder, Colorado (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    kerflooey, TracieLynn

    Flash flooding kills two people, schools are closed, streets impassable, homes collapsing:

    Massive flooding has made the streets of Boulder impassable and destroyed multiple homes in Boulder County, according to Officer of Emergency Management officials.

    One person was killed in Jamestown when a structure collapsed because of the flooding, the OEM said.

    Boulder Creek was running at more than 10 times its normal rate.

    The weather service said at 1:29 p.m. that 4 to 6 inches of rain had fallen since mid-day Wednesday and as much as 7 inches in some locations.

    http://www.denverpost.com/...

    Your beliefs don't make you a better person. Your behavior does.

    by skohayes on Thu Sep 12, 2013 at 06:01:21 AM PDT

  •  Is Assad backpeddling on chemical weapons deal? (0+ / 0-)

    I heard that Assad is revising or redefining what he promised on the chemical weapons proposal. It kind of waters down the whole thing to be meaningless. We need to make sure these weapons are taken and destroyed by this deal. Otherwise it's just lip service to avoid making any progress in the region or the talks of a military strike.

    "I think it's the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately." -- George Carlin, Satirical Comic,(1937-2008)

    by Wynter on Thu Sep 12, 2013 at 06:16:32 AM PDT

  •  and colorado is a RW talk radio state and CO dems (0+ / 0-)

    had no idea that it was going to kick their ass. they didn't know what the NRA/GOP was blasting from those stations to attack their reps, the loudest of which had CU buffs, broncos, and rockies stickers all over it. and i'll bet they didn't respond.

    This is a list of 76 universities for Rush Limbaugh that endorse global warming denial, racism, sexism, and GOP lies by broadcasting sports on over 170 Limbaugh radio stations.

    by certainot on Thu Sep 12, 2013 at 06:41:42 AM PDT

  •  When Putin wrestles with foreign policy (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Radical Moderate, Mistral Wind

    does he do so fully clothed or with his shirt off?

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