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I've never seen this TV show, I don't watch TV. I just today looked at the short video clip excerpts so I could at least say I've seen a couple.

On Your Own Adventures is a popular series of shows that spotlights hunting that is self guided on public lands by a guy named Randy Newberg. At his day job Randy is actually an accountant, many consider his style of hunting among the most ethical.

I've seen snippets of hunting shows before that consist of some mouthy famous hunter being guided into taking a shot on some huge trophy sized animal. Bleh! Think Ted Nugent.

Self guided hunts mean that the elk are taken if the hunter is good and has luck. Things aren't dependent on the skill of the guide because there are none. To the layperson that might seem not too important, to a hunter it's everything, it's the difference between shooting animals and hunting animals. Maybe I'm being too critical, but you get the idea.

In the western US hunting ethics are different than many places. Bear in mind sometimes ethics dictate the law, because they reflect community values, other times they aren't a legal definition, just the way one wants to conduct oneself.

Where I live in Colorado, Montana is considered to have some of the best hunters and some of the most stringent laws. When people retire they move to Montana for the hunting, not hunting opportunity but quality. Baiting is very illegal, so is using trail cams within a few days of the season. People don't sit in stands, they stalk. Distances are far.

Like real life Randy and whoever he hunts with are sometimes successful other times not. Similar to everyone else they shoot the first legal animal they can. They do come up empty handed sometimes too. I liked this video best.
Don't worry, no kill shot, at first they can't even tell if they hit it. Not what you see on most hunting shows I'd wager. The whole segment is 6 minutes or something.

Besides the show, Randy is also on the Board of Directors of Orion The Hunters Institute, an org that trains hunter ed teachers and "provides leadership on ethical and philosophical issues to promote fair chase and responsible hunting."

In describing the show Wiki says, "Hunting is often stopped for interviews of hunters to “capture the moment.” Extensive interviewing of all participants is made, to gather the perspective of hunting as it occurs for average Americans, and gain perspective of how hunters view their activities in the larger context of wildlife conservation." It's obvious some parts are planned out in advance. When two guys approach a downed animal at night obviously the cameraman got there first, other parts are obviously unscripted.

So what piqued my interest if I don't watch TV anyway? I read but don't participate on the social media portion of Randy's blog. When you read someone for a few months you get an idea where they are coming from. I think Randy is coming from a good place.

I should note that many don't like hunting and feel it necessary vehemently say so in comments. I'd ask for a little self reflection before posting such comments. Is it true or an opinion, is it kind, does it add to the discussion. Thanks.

Update: Thanks for the rescue, now I wish I'd taken more time and fleshed out some things. I'd also say no one has remarked on the vid, I'd suggest a look see. Randy is shaking uncontrollably after releasing an arrow suspecting he blew it. The guilt and shame that follows him through the evening and the next morning is palpable. Even very good experienced hunters can be scared at the last minute, often there is an extremely short window during which to get off a shot, a second or three. The larger the animal the larger the responsibility to do a good job of it, the greater the depression over making a mess of things. Things start to happen at about the 2 minute mark.

Originally posted to Hunting and Fishing Kos on Sun Oct 13, 2013 at 06:56 AM PDT.

Also republished by Liberal G Club and Community Spotlight.

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Comment Preferences

  •  I have never been hunting (23+ / 0-)

    and have no desire to. However, I respect hunting as an important way to keep herds of wild animals properly sized for the habitat available. I know lots of hunters and they are avid environmentalists and dedicated to preserving habitat for animals and birds. They also eat what they hunt.

    "let's talk about that"

    by VClib on Sun Oct 13, 2013 at 07:08:06 AM PDT

    •  I've never lived in San Francisco (17+ / 0-)

      and have no desire to. However I respect San Franciscans as an important demographic of the Democratic party and they do some good. I know lots of people who come from California and they are not narrow minded at all. They all own guns.

      “Conservation… is a positive exercise of skill and insight, not merely a negative exercise of abstinence and caution…” Aldo Leopold

      by ban nock on Sun Oct 13, 2013 at 10:28:52 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I loved this comment, but I have to say (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ban nock, 43north, FarWestGirl

        if you've never had a good linguica pizza, (and you never have if you've never had a Bay Area pizza), you can't possibly appreciate the allure of the SF Bay Area.  Forget pepperoni...linguica rules.  Never had a good pizza with linguica since I left the Bay Area.  Hardly ever even found linguica outside of the Bay Area.

        Through early morning fog I see visions of the things to be the pains that are withheld for me I realize and I can see...

        by Keith930 on Sun Oct 13, 2013 at 06:02:27 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Well we don't all own guns. (9+ / 0-)

        But I definitely support ethical hunters.  If you're competing against my beloved raptors for the food (waterfowl and small game hunters), then you ought to be working as hard for it as they are.  Think like a predator, not like a target shooter.

        If you're going for bigger beasts, take the hooved locusts, please.  Eat the deer, eat the pigs and make a birder happy.

        Lead your life - don't let your life lead you.

        by lineatus on Sun Oct 13, 2013 at 10:01:26 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I was making it all up. Tried to reply using the (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          lineatus, BlackSheep1, Larsstephens

          same exact words as the original comment only replacing the word and ideas of hunting with citizens of SF.

          I like SF very much and would be thrilled to live there or especially across the bridge in Marin County. Only know one gun owner from the area.

          Never have bird hunted. We do have too many geese here but it's a lot of investment in effort, equipment, and learning to shoot and what not. The manager of a large state wildlife sanctuary (prairie potholes for birds) did ask me to come shoot coyotes but I never have yet.

          “Conservation… is a positive exercise of skill and insight, not merely a negative exercise of abstinence and caution…” Aldo Leopold

          by ban nock on Mon Oct 14, 2013 at 05:58:53 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Eat the deer and make a biker happy (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          ban nock

          Deer are probably the most dangerous animal in the US.
          They turn up on roads when you are least expecting them.

          I don't hunt but support people who are hunting for food. A lot of poor people in rural areas get through the winter because they have a deer in the freezer.

          I object to trophy hunting. If you want a trophy, get one cast out of metal or something.

    •  It's worth repeating this. (16+ / 0-)

      Much of the wildlife we in Montana, and elsewhere in the States, have is still around due to the collective actions of hunters. In the early 1900s, most of the species that are now common here were on the verge of extinction. Hunters examined the situation, and decided that they wanted a world where the game they love and love to hunt exist.

    •  From Walden (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ColoTim, FarWestGirl
      when some of my friends have asked me anxiously about their boys, whether they should let them hunt, I have answered, yes- remembering that it was one of the best parts of my education- make them hunters, though sportsmen only at first, if possible, mighty hunters at last, so that they shall not find game large enough for them in this or any vegetable wilderness- hunters as well as fishers of men. Thus far I am of the opinion of Chaucer's nun, who

      "yave not of the text a pulled hen
      That saith that hunters ben not holy men."

      There is a period in the history of the individual, as of the race, when the hunters are the "best men,- as the Algonquins called them. We cannot but pity the boy who has never fired a gun; he is no more humane, while his education has been sadly neglected. This was my answer with respect to those youths who were bent on this pursuit, trusting that they would soon outgrow it. No humane being, past the thoughtless age of boyhood, will wantonly murder any creature which holds its life by the same tenure that he does. The hare in its extremity cries like a child. I warn you, mothers, that my sympathies do not always make the usual philanthropic distinctions.

      75534 4-ever or until dk5

      by NearlyNormal on Mon Oct 14, 2013 at 01:46:35 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I'll be making venison stew today. (23+ / 0-)

    I don't hunt myself, but have my place leased to a good family. They got one yesterday, and brought me legs and shoulders for the dogs. I spent some time getting some meat out of those pesky shoulders before chopping them up for woozle delight.
    Since it's damp, I have a fire going, and will soon put the pot on to start the stew.

    Only thing more infuriating than an ignorant man is one who tries to make others ignorant for his own gain. Crashing Vor

    by emmasnacker on Sun Oct 13, 2013 at 07:27:30 AM PDT

  •  I don't watch hunting videos - ever. (23+ / 0-)

    Most of them are a back-slapping celebrations of a large antlered ungulate with a background of aggressive rock music or twangy country. It cheapens the experience and the animal.

    Its a deeply personal thing to come to grips with killing an animal and you are alone, in every sense of the word, when you pull the trigger or release the arrow. I've made my peace with it because the venison and the time alone in the woods is so valuable and restoring to me. I'll describe it for you. But - I wouldn't want it packaged and broadcast.

    Randy seems to get it and I applaud the self sufficiency and the value he places on our public lands and on the elk.

    Its a beautiful fall day here. I am brewing a pot of coffee and headed out to a special place on the river with a book and a camera.

    Peace, Love, and Canoes!!!

    by OldJackPine on Sun Oct 13, 2013 at 07:46:04 AM PDT

  •  Thank you, ban nock. (16+ / 0-)

    I have family going hunting in NM next weekend.

    Did you perhaps intend to post a different video?  This one is over 6 minutes, and you mention 3 minutes.

  •  I detest most hunting & fishing shows (22+ / 0-)

    There is something about watching some Nugent clone making 30 minutes of dialogue out of the phrases "nice buck" and "pretty fish" that I just can't tolerate.  However, the concept of this show fits nicely with how I actually hunt.

    Being a successful hunter 100% of the time is a matter of how one defines success.  To me, success is a hat filled with chanterelles.  Once in awhile I find a buck standing in my chanterelle patch.

    "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win". Mohandas K. Gandhi

    by DaveinBremerton on Sun Oct 13, 2013 at 08:19:08 AM PDT

    •  I grew up eating game, Dave (10+ / 0-)

      Venison and rabbit, mostly...but also, if you expand the definition, fish and turtle.  I've never eaten wild turkey.  But I have eaten quail and pheasant.  Be careful of the birdshot...one could lose a tooth if you chew too heartily.

      Hunting is challenging, and it is invigorating.  It is enjoyable.  And the meat is good.  As long as you eat what you hunt, I see nothing wrong with it at all.  Deer are, in many parts of the US, at near pestilent populations.  When I was a preteen, in the 60's, you could find rabbit in the meat counter of every supermarket.  Today?  Here in Portland, you have to go to high end markets and pay $10/lb for rabbit meat.  It is as good if not better than chicken.  (without the salmonella)

      I've hunted squirrel.  That's probably my favorite, just because the time of the season.  Early Fall.  I know many people will flinch at the thought, but a good squirrel and rice casserole is delicious.

      Point is...you eat what you take.  You hunt only what you will eat.  I never shot a possum, or a groundhog.  Never wanted to eat one.  (although, I've been told that groundhogs are not bad eating at all).

      I once, on a foggy night, hit a deer on the highway about 2 miles from home.  It was a glancing blow, but it killed the deer.  I threw it into the trunk, took it home and skinned/cleaned it.  

      Coulda left it on the side of the highway.  But I got plenty of good venison sausage instead.

      Hunting is an enjoyable, challenging and noble activity if it's done right.   I have a cousin who hunts much the same way as I, but has been known to hunt for pure sport.  He took a trip to Canada just to chase a bear up a tree and shoot it down.  His home is adorned with deer heads and turkeys that have come back from the taxidermist.

      As a sick joke, I once took a squirrel that I had shot to a taxidermist and asked him to mount its head and front paws on a small wooden plaque.  On it's paws I placed an arrow.  This was in mockery of a similar display that my cousin had made of a deer he had taken with a bow.  

      I presented it to him as a gift.  He was not amused.

      Through early morning fog I see visions of the things to be the pains that are withheld for me I realize and I can see...

      by Keith930 on Sun Oct 13, 2013 at 05:54:32 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Keith930, (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ban nock, 43north, ColoTim, FarWestGirl

        You  can come to my backyard west of Beaverton and hunt squirrels anytime.

        I've been studying videos on how to skin them.

        My family doesn't share my proclivities.  When I ate bullfrog, I ate alone.

        “The answer must be, I think, that beauty and grace are performed whether or not we will or sense them. The least we can do is try to be there.” ― Annie Dillard, Pilgrim at Tinker Creek

        by 6412093 on Sun Oct 13, 2013 at 07:59:21 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I've seen a way the Lao do it by rolling the (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          43north, FarWestGirl

          squirrel in the ashes of the fire. I'm not sure if ashes have a strong chemical reaction with the way the hair is attached to the skin, or the slight cooking makes the hair easy to come off in any case the hair becomes very loose and can be pushed off with a stick or pulled off, kind of like plucking a chicken. The last of the hair can be singed off with the fire. Then the carcass is cleaned saving the heart and liver and even the intestine if one knows how to slit and clean it.

          If one squirrel is dinner for six or eight it's good not to lose the skin.

          They usually cook the squirrel in a soup or stew to make a larger dish and use the juices. For storing they pound flat then hang in the smoke of the fire for drying without cooking.

          I've yet to prepare my own but looking at those gray squirrels eating my tomatoes and squash my mind turns towards legal methods of take.

          “Conservation… is a positive exercise of skill and insight, not merely a negative exercise of abstinence and caution…” Aldo Leopold

          by ban nock on Mon Oct 14, 2013 at 04:12:34 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  I did pretty much the same (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ban nock, ColoTim, FarWestGirl

        Not so much squirrels but definitely deer, elk, grouse, various upland birds, ducks, and geese.  I took my first deer at about age 12 with a rifle paid for from paper route and lawn mowing money.  I was probably 20 when I killed the first of what some people call a trophy deer (7 x 7 point whitetail with forked eye guards, taken near the Kettle River in Washington State).  I've taken several more so-called trophies in the years since.

        I share your contempt of mounted heads.  I've got some large sets of antlers pigeon-holed in a closet somewhere...it seems wasteful to leave them in the woods.  I'm more into the harvesting and cooking of wild game, and I generally take the first legal animal I encounter unless I don't like the shot or the pack-out.

        This year will be limited to goose hunting; the pink and coho salmon runs took up most of my fall.

        "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win". Mohandas K. Gandhi

        by DaveinBremerton on Sun Oct 13, 2013 at 09:00:17 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  From what I understand, mice and other critters (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          FarWestGirl, ban nock

          will consume the antlers in the wild, which is why the forest isn't just littered with them after a few years.  Just offering you a reason to leave them behind, should you want one.

          •  Yes, it's how the calcium is recycled. Rodents, (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            ban nock, ColoTim

            particularly, will gnaw them down. And pass the nutrients up the food chain.

            Information is abundant, wisdom is scarce. ~The Druid.
            ~Ideals aren't goals, they're navigation aids.~

            by FarWestGirl on Mon Oct 14, 2013 at 06:36:02 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  In many instances here (antler point restrictions) (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            ColoTim

            you are required by law to carry them out. Squirrels regularly recycle the calcium of any horns I get from above the door of the barn.

            Trophies are fairly universal throughout all societies, from hunter gatherers to Jesse Jackson's son who just bought one for his office. It only seems silly to me when it becomes the objective..

            “Conservation… is a positive exercise of skill and insight, not merely a negative exercise of abstinence and caution…” Aldo Leopold

            by ban nock on Mon Oct 14, 2013 at 07:06:07 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  Thanks for showing us a different perspective (13+ / 0-)

    here.  While my Dad taught us how to use firearms and how to hunt.  We rarely went with him to do so.

    The times I did go, it was ducks we were after and he'd be with his buddies and then we'd spend hours just sitting.  They'd open beers and by noon we'd be going into a local tavern for lunch.  Then back out again but maybe move to a new area they thought would be good to get in close to a flock.

    For me, it always seemed like a game to them nothing more.  Just an excuse to get drunk and have fun.

    Even to this day I'm not sure where I stand on hunting.  A necessary evil, I guess.  A few year ago up here in the Buffalo area, a Forest Ranger that my landlord knows stopped by and was telling us how he had come upon a small herd of deer, 7-8 of them about 6 miles away, frozen dead standing in place.  He'd never seen anything like it before.

    He was disgusted at the politics of our State and where it's pushed people away from hunting.  Overpopulation of deer is very destructive to our State's natural habitats and listening to him I came to understand how big of a problem it really has become here.

    So, I'm torn between my own beliefs.  I deplore the cruelty and machismo I've seen.  Just recently with the killing of a rare white elk in Canada. Or their annual baby seal hunts, whereby they'll skin them alive.

    And doing what needs to be done to keep the animals from starving to death and dying horrible deaths.

    So this IS a truly different understanding.  One we need to see and read more about.

    Thank you.

    -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

    by gerrilea on Sun Oct 13, 2013 at 08:32:53 AM PDT

    •  I can't imagine drinking in a duck blind (18+ / 0-)

      There is the obvious safety problem, and then there is the frequent need to pee while wearing a bazillion layers of winter clothing.

      "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win". Mohandas K. Gandhi

      by DaveinBremerton on Sun Oct 13, 2013 at 08:47:50 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I wasn't raised by my dad (13+ / 0-)

      My mom thought nature was that thing you ran thru to get to the hotel. I'm different, I need nature to stay sane.

      I have pics of my dad, grandpa, and uncles each with a buck and with stringers of huge rainbows. I remember eating venison pot pies and going to get the canned trout from the pantry at grandma's house.

      Hunting was about eating well during the winter, just like gardening was. We've kinda lost that in our world of now.

      And daddy won't you take me back to Muhlenberg County Down by the Green River where Paradise lay. Well, I'm sorry my son, but you're too late in asking Mister Peabody's coal train has hauled it away. John Prine

      by high uintas on Sun Oct 13, 2013 at 01:40:30 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  The notion that humans need to "manage" nature (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ban nock

      is a truly bizarre Western idea.  Until human overpopulation and the use of technology to slaughter other animals on a planatery scale, in just the last century and a half, nature was balanced for millions of years.  

      Humans need to do less, not more, "management" of the natural world.  

      Otherwise we will all end up frozen, standing up.

      •  You might want to do some reading about (7+ / 0-)

        wildlife on N America or the "balance of nature".

        When we humans came to N America more than 10K years ago we hunted all of the megafauna and much of it went extinct. Most of the large mammals from that time no longer exist. We also made extensive use of fire to drive animals to slaughter and provide fertile habitat for valuable food plants. We've been at this a hundred times longer than you might have supposed.

        The "balance of nature" hasn't been taught in university level ecology courses for thirty years. Nature is in flux and only achieves temporary stages of equilibrium.

        Conservation has saved almost all the large mammals that existed a hundred and fifty years ago, and most of the other species. Wildlife conservation is management, and hunting  funds management.

        “Conservation… is a positive exercise of skill and insight, not merely a negative exercise of abstinence and caution…” Aldo Leopold

        by ban nock on Mon Oct 14, 2013 at 03:53:01 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  It's a double-edged sword. (0+ / 0-)

        If we leave the deer to multiply beyond sustainability they will die off, forever.  If I recall we've destroyed at least 13 species. The passenger pigeon comes to mind.  They were the most prolific bird on the planet and we ate them all.

        http://ecolocalizer.com/...

        Right now, mankind has pushed the current planetary extinction level to the 6th highest in history.  We have to accept that we are part of this planet's ecosystem and take responsibility for our actions, past, present and future.

        Without hunters and their fees, it would be an uncontrolled disaster.  

        We need them, period.  We don't need GMO's nor the criminal agribusinesses that have taken over our government.

        -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

        by gerrilea on Mon Oct 14, 2013 at 07:29:16 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  I always enjoy your diaries ban nock (14+ / 0-)

    Thanks.

    The sun's not yellow, it's chicken. B. Dylan

    by bgblcklab1 on Sun Oct 13, 2013 at 12:22:50 PM PDT

    •  first one for me. (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ban nock, BlackSheep1, FarWestGirl

      always perked up for random comments, tho, wherever ban nock roamed ...

      will be back. just came from diary about High Plains blizzard this year, had lots of good links, so today must be my 'catch up and learn' Sunday.

      Addington's perpwalk? TRAILHEAD of accountability for Bush-2 Crimes. @Hugh: There is no Article II power which says the Executive can violate the Constitution.

      by greenbird on Sun Oct 13, 2013 at 10:25:12 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I just started hearing about that blizzard (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        BlackSheep1, FarWestGirl

        a little on the news, and a post here at DK. Amazing that only a few hundred miles south of them we had some wind, a tiny dusting of snow, and colder temps, nothing else.

        “Conservation… is a positive exercise of skill and insight, not merely a negative exercise of abstinence and caution…” Aldo Leopold

        by ban nock on Mon Oct 14, 2013 at 04:16:07 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  I don't hunt (21+ / 0-)

    I have no philosophical objections to it, but it seems to involve a lot of:

    1. Getting up really early.
    2. Being cold and/or wet much of the time.
    3. Sitting perfectly still for long periods.

    None of which I'm particularly suited for.

    If the pilot's good, see, I mean if he's reeeally sharp, he can barrel that baby in so low... oh you oughta see it sometime. It's a sight. A big plane like a '52... varrrooom! Its jet exhaust... frying chickens in the barnyard!

    by Major Kong on Sun Oct 13, 2013 at 12:37:36 PM PDT

  •  Spot-stalk hunting is very, very tough. (15+ / 0-)

    To me, spot-stalk hunting without a guide, on public lands, is the truest form of hunting. It's exceptionally difficult, and the hunter has to rely not just on shooting skill, but also on the hunter's skill and experience as an outdoorsman, knowledge of deer behavior and movement patterns, etc. None of the rich man, canned hunt stuff.

    I haven't watched the show, but I like the idea of a show that focuses on public lands.

    •  When I used to hunt.. (14+ / 0-)

      ..here in Alaska, I would hunt with a partner (too dangerous otherwise) and we would walk in-walk out (no 4-wheelers), pack out the meat and antlers in multiple trips, usually several miles one-way over horrible terrain. Moose are big critters. And caribou aren't tiny either.

      Of course I was fit and in my twenties-thirties. I do all my hunting these days at a Safeway with a $100 bill, when I eat meat at all.

      I have no problem with hunting, as long as you are ethical. I believe anything more than a good rifle, good scope, binoculars and modern clothing are all you need (Well, a meat pack doesn't hurt...) I once used an obsidian hand-tool to flesh out and cut up a moose. It worked great! No long-shots. If you can't work your way within 200 meters of an animal without spooking it, don't hunt.

      In Alaska, hunting is obligatory if you live in the Bush off the road system. No Safeways in Aleknagik...

      "Wealthy the Spirit which knows its own flight. Stealthy the Hunter who slays his own fright. Blessed is the Traveler who journeys the length of the Light."

      by CanisMaximus on Sun Oct 13, 2013 at 01:46:17 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I've got a close friend in Wyoming (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      SixSixSix, ColoTim, FarWestGirl

      Elk season is upon them right about now.  He's pretty closely tied to the land (understatement if you knew him), so he knows the patterns of the elk and when they come down from the highlands for the winter (I say that, and he is at 7600' himself).  I've been up there with him before, stalking elk with no weapons just for the fun of it - barefoot and creeping through a draw of quakies, sneaking up on a small herd, then later after dark sneaking in among them in the moonlight while they are singing.  Man that was fun!

      But they have some incredible distances of sight out there too.  There is a reason he has his rifle setup the way he does - he can reliably and safely hit a target at 1250 yards, and take elk from that distance, and sometimes does.  Its pretty insane to realize how far of a distance that really is.  But for him, unless his neighbor gives him a cow, 2 or 3 elk in the freezer is the all the meat his family will eat for the year.

      Rule #1 in elk hunting, make sure you kill them where you can get to them with the pickup truck, lol!

      We can NOT pretend to be a democracy when we have secret laws, with secret courts, with secret verdicts, with secret prisoners, in secret prisons!

      by MusicFarmer on Mon Oct 14, 2013 at 11:14:33 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yeah, it's super legit. (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        MusicFarmer, ColoTim, FarWestGirl

        My stepdad just got a whitetail up in the Sierra Nevadas the other day.

        I went with him once. He ran me ragged. I was about 25. He was about 58. I remember walking up the side of this mountain (our camp-site was at around 7000 feet), and just being so gassed. I had to stop multiple times to catch my breath. He'd just be standing there asking if I was ready yet. It definitely required a lot more stamina than I was prepared for. The more effective spot-stalk hunters cover a ton of ground, almost always at altitude in cool or cold weather. Getting back to camp in the evening, I remember brewing up some coffee and pouring a bunch of bourbon into it. Felt so good.

        I don't know if I'll ever go again. If I do, I definitely will need some time to train for it. It certainly gave me a new respect for that kind of hunting.

  •  One of our good friends (16+ / 0-)

    drew out for a cow elk in our mountains. That makes a big difference because he knows where the herd is and all their little trails and hidey holes. As for us, his friends, we'll gladly pay him Tuesday for an elk roast today :)

    He's an honest hunter. You would never see him play games or not make sure that the animal is put out of pain. He has zero respect for people who don't respect the animals that they are hunting.

    And daddy won't you take me back to Muhlenberg County Down by the Green River where Paradise lay. Well, I'm sorry my son, but you're too late in asking Mister Peabody's coal train has hauled it away. John Prine

    by high uintas on Sun Oct 13, 2013 at 01:28:58 PM PDT

  •  its bad to shoot others... unless they have fur (2+ / 3-)
    Recommended by:
    pitbullgirl65, Zinman
    Hidden by:
    NE2, Username4242, Thinking Fella

    Hope E.T. never actually crash lands on this hellhole called Earth where even the liberals think it's okay to kill animals unnecessarily for sport and food.

    The day may come, when the rest of the animal creation may acquire those rights which never could have been withholden from them but by the hand of tyranny. The French have already discovered that the blackness of skin is no reason why a human being should be abandoned without redress to the caprice of a tormentor. It may come one day to be recognized, that the number of legs, the villosity of the skin, or the termination of the os sacrum, are reasons equally insufficient for abandoning a sensitive being to the same fate. What else is it that should trace the insuperable line? Is it the faculty of reason, or perhaps, the faculty for discourse?...the question is not, Can they reason? nor, Can they talk? but, Can they suffer? Why should the law refuse its protection to any sensitive being?... The time will come when humanity will extend its mantle over everything which breathes...
    Jeremy Bentham, Introduction to the Principles of Morals and Legislation.

    The day may come, when the rest of the animal creation may acquire those rights which never could have been withholden from them but by the hand of tyranny.

    by Tetris on Sun Oct 13, 2013 at 05:00:03 PM PDT

    •  Recommended (6+ / 0-)

      to offset the unnecessary HR. Tetris does have a point.  I think hunting done properly as everyone is advocating here is more humane then raising animals for meat.  I think most hunters (I live in a rural area where it's prevalent) despise the Ted Nugent types who kill for sport and yeah, get off on it. Those are the same yahoos who treat firearms like toys.

      I wish more people were vegan/vegetarian, but it's difficult to do. And even if you are, your pets must have meat, esp cats.

      "Down with sodomy, up with teabagging!" Sign @ TeaBilly rally.

      by pitbullgirl65 on Sun Oct 13, 2013 at 05:48:31 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Have you read the Justice Douglas dissent in the (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      pitbullgirl65, 6412093, MusicFarmer

      Snowking case? He argues for giving "rights" to mountains, even rocks, trees, etc. A bit ahead of his time, but at least a forward thinker.

      Don't see much of that on the modern SCOTUS.

      There can be no protection locally if we're content to ignore the fact that there are no controls globally.

      by oldpotsmuggler on Sun Oct 13, 2013 at 06:01:19 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  or an old school thinker.... (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        melo, ban nock

        Rocks, trees, grass, air, water, 4-leggeds, 2-leggeds, they are all alive.

        Owning any of these is not really possible.  We only construct it in our own minds within the framework of our western euro-style civilization.

        Rocks can talk, so can trees.  I've heard rocks sing before, but you really have to slow down, stop, and listen.  Not that I could understand them (I don't speak rock), but I've heard it before.

        But this is a line of thought that goes way back before the invasion of european civilization.

        We can NOT pretend to be a democracy when we have secret laws, with secret courts, with secret verdicts, with secret prisoners, in secret prisons!

        by MusicFarmer on Mon Oct 14, 2013 at 01:12:32 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  is it ok to eat meat then? (ie to you) (9+ / 0-)

      Because if you don't judge all meat eaters, I don't understand how you can think worse of the more ethical kind of hunting discussed in this diary.

      If you are not a vegetarian, I can't see how you have a leg to stand on if you yourself buy farm raised meat.

      Most Farm animals raised, killed, packed for food have a short, hellish life on factory farms. They are abused psychologically and physically.

      It seems much worse to me than hunting an animal for food, ie to hunt the meat you eat. And that is what this diary is about. It is not about trophy hunting. "..even liberals think it is ok to kill animals Unnecessarily for sport and food".

      No more necessary than eating any meat..if you are arguing that meat eating itself is not necessary you have a good argument. And the diarist was, if anything, arguing AGAINST hunting for sport. Maybe you didn't read the diary closely having had a visceral reaction to it?

    •  I do not think it is OK to hunt for sport (7+ / 0-)

      When I was young, I hunted for food for my family. I killed deer and we ate them. We were not rich, we needed the food, the deer were plentiful on our property, my parents approved, so I hunted deer in season, shot them, and we froze the meat and ate it during the next year. We also raised cattle, ate some and sold some. Subsistence ranching/farming is like that.

      I do not think shooting game for sport is ethical. Killing for the sake of acquiring a trophy, or for the rush, is not ethical, in my opinion.

      Carbon dioxide in the atmosphere is now 400ppm. That is "Climate Cluster Chaos". (hat tip to JeffW for CCC)

      by Zinman on Sun Oct 13, 2013 at 10:41:36 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  My thoughts are similar (4+ / 0-)

      to jplanner's.  I hunt and I disagree with your comment.

      But those HRs are bogus.  

      Political compass: -8.75 / -4.72

      by Mark Mywurtz on Mon Oct 14, 2013 at 04:28:25 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  this isn't the place for a discussion of animal (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      BlackSheep1, MusicFarmer, FarWestGirl

      rights but you certainly didn't offer to kill anyone or suggest similar.

      What gives me pause is comparing the liberation of black people to that of animals. People are people and now a days we are of many mixed so called races. We are of one species not gradations thereof.

      “Conservation… is a positive exercise of skill and insight, not merely a negative exercise of abstinence and caution…” Aldo Leopold

      by ban nock on Mon Oct 14, 2013 at 09:45:19 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  another gem, Ban Nock n/t (9+ / 0-)

    Through early morning fog I see visions of the things to be the pains that are withheld for me I realize and I can see...

    by Keith930 on Sun Oct 13, 2013 at 05:56:09 PM PDT

  •  Thank you for a very nice Diary. (12+ / 0-)

    We live in Montana but we are not hunters, although we do enjoy the hobby of target shooting.

    We marvel every day at the natural beauty of Montana---our nearest neighbor is about one mile away and the nearest town has all of 2,000 residents.  

    I never have hunted and have no plans of ever hunting but neither one of us have any objections to the manner in which hunting is done in our beautiful State.

    "It took us a couple of days because I like to know what I'm talking about before I speak." President Barack Obama 3/24/09

    by sfcouple on Sun Oct 13, 2013 at 06:09:45 PM PDT

  •  I don't understand why some people hate hunting (12+ / 0-)

    if they are NOT vegetarians. As if hunting is less ethical than eating farm-raised meat from a package!

     And I don't understand why people who are vegetarians for ethical reasons would go after people who hunt their meat when those of us who eat farm-raised meat are likely responsible for much more suffering.

    If you eat meat anyway, what is the difference between ETHICALLY, quickly, and cleanly killing game animals for food and buying a pack of big ag-raised meat at the grocers?

    The difference to me is that the wild animal has lived the free life that it is adapted to live, while the typical farm-raised meat animal suffers a brief, often painful life of extreme deprivation. The more ethical path to attaining meat if you are going to eat it seem clear, as the lives of most farm raised "domesticate" animals are horrible. Just watching a few Human Society videos convinced me of that.

    Maybe the thought of killing makes some people nauseated so they label those who can kill with their own hand as evildoers. It is so much more sanitized to buy a pack in the supermarket. But we are still responsible for killing just as the hunter is.

    It is more respectful to the animal, to Life itself, though, to KNOW that if you are going to EAT meat you are responsible for Killing every single time. Hunting for your meat seems so much more honest.

    I'm generally pro Gun control, I'm a northeastern liberal city dweller who has never been hunting. I admire hunters who hunt for food not trophies. Especially hunters who approach what they do with respect and care for the animal's (lack of) suffering. They aren't whitewashing the means to the end that most meat eaters, like myself, who buy in a supermarket, can do.

    I wonder how many people hate hunting and vilify hunters but who will eat supermarket meat. That is so odd to me.

    •  Appreciate the thoughts here. (8+ / 0-)

      I push my family to eat less meat overall for reasons of environmental sustainability but we are not ready to commit to full vegetarianism.  The venison we procure locally basically replaces the red meat we might otherwise buy from the grocery and the act of killing, hauling, butchering, and preparing my own venison makes me more mindful of the food I eat and the supply chains and people who produce it.

      I'd like to fix you a venison steak sometime ;).

      Peace, Love, and Canoes!!!

      by OldJackPine on Sun Oct 13, 2013 at 06:46:47 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  jplanner, I think their sentiment actually comes (8+ / 0-)

      from a good place. They are empathizing with the other living mammal. Most mammals feel similar pain and even emotions and even have memory. Knowing that farm raised animals have it worse isn't the same. Farm raised animals are just a piece of food wrapped in plastic. Emotionally the anti hunter feels just the same as if one were murdering humans.

      Hunting animals is very easy to do because it comes naturally, much different than butchering one's own farm animals for instance. I believe hunting stimulates the same part of the brain in humans as it does in any other carnivore. The satisfaction of skillful hunting and the exalting over getting a big piece of food.

      “Conservation… is a positive exercise of skill and insight, not merely a negative exercise of abstinence and caution…” Aldo Leopold

      by ban nock on Sun Oct 13, 2013 at 07:35:29 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yes, some of them identify with a hunted animal (5+ / 0-)

        I object only when they then do not also Equally identify with an animal that is agribusiness-type factory  farm raised and then slaughtered.

        I object more when people that vilify humane hunting eat factory-farmed supermarket meat and think that is better than to hunt.

        That farmed animal has almost always had a brief, nasty, isolated, sad, painful life. That sentient creature deserves our deep compassion for it's whole horrible life rather than only the life ending.

        Disclosure:
        I do eat supermarket meat (chicken) occasionally-mostly if I dine out, which is mostly when someone else treats me at this point for $$ concerns. I just have little denial in what I am supporting-torture of animals. And anyone can say I too am a hypocrite for that reason.

        •  I agree with you completely. (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          jplanner, Mark Mywurtz, melo, ban nock

          Hunting is far more humane.

          The big agribusiness model needs to be outlawed, if we are to progress as a society.  Their crimes against us all are slowly reaching a crescendo.

          The 4+ decades I've been around we've gone from fresh, healthy local farmers feeding us to big agribusiness destroying everything.  30 yrs ago chicken was around 49 cents a pound and it wasn't fed hormones, wasn't left in dark cramped disease infested boxes, nor were the chicks ground up alive or tortuously debilled, etc, etc, etc.  

          The horrors I've witnessed have destroyed parts of my very own soul. The infestation on this planet is us humans, sadly.

          That said, I've tried to reduce my own meat consumption, buy local farm products and avoid places like Walmart. Rare is the day that I can actually afford "cage free" chicken.  That's what gets to me.  We had natural products just 30 yrs ago that cost the same as the processed garbage we're been forced to consume out of necessity today.  If you want truly healthy "natural" products you pay 4 or 5 times the amount for it, it's pure insanity.

          -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

          by gerrilea on Sun Oct 13, 2013 at 08:36:47 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  you are more forgiving than I (5+ / 0-)

        I understand that that slab of beef in plastic wrap does not conjure the same immediate emotional horror as the idea of an animal shot.

        I do understand that they feel it's the same as if a human was shot.

        Many feelings are based on thoughts. IF they tried to think about what that packaged piece of meat really was, and what that animal's life was, I am sure they would feel differently.

        Many people (those that will eat supermarket meat but hate hunting for food) are not bothering to think about the horrors of what they are eating because it is inconvenient to break one's denial and realize one is supporting the torture and killing of animals directly.

        I think supermarket meat eaters do not have an ethical leg to stand on, feelings aside, when it comes to criticizing hunters that respect animals and hunt for food. If they do criticize, they are hypocrites.

        •  JP, is it hypocrisy or ignorance? (5+ / 0-)

          We've been conditioned into boxes, compartmentalized into not seeing the whole picture.  Can't have the riff-raff thinking about things best left to our overlords and all.

          Then we're given false choices, A, B or C, when presented with the problems our overlords created.

          Many people "chose" not to look, a cognitive dissonance that makes their quiet lives of desperation a bit more bearable.

          Hell, some truly believe it's the "price of admission" into our "civil society".  "So what if a few million animals are tortured for our consumption, it's the law of nature."

          For me, when I'm in the store, price is the first hurdle, then the quality.  Sometimes I see chickens that have bruises in the meat and then I see the images of the conditions that animal existed under and then I walk away...I go "hunting" in the pasta isle on those days.  Then I have to contend with the GMO wheat, corn, potatoes, etc.  

          Ugh...I can't win no matter what I do.

          -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

          by gerrilea on Sun Oct 13, 2013 at 09:00:43 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I'm in the same place $ wise. Food stamps now (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Mark Mywurtz, gerrilea, ban nock

            even. I don't eat (any) kind of animal flesh many days...because my ethics have collided with my pocketbook, as it sound yours have.

            It's funny, a decade ago or more I wouldn't have cared. I was working FT so money wasn't an object.

            Have been buying frozen fish on sale crossed checked with Monterey Aquarium's sustainable fish list. Canned sardines and wild Salmon, which Trader Joes has for cheap but very high quality are also a frequent purchase. And when I do cook some time of flesh (ie chicken), I make it in stew-type dishes (Indian, Moroccan etc) with vegetables which is how many cuisines use meat, anyway, which stretches it but is also healthier.

            I now have a problem with eggs. I saw a Human Society video on factory farming (?battery cages?) of egg laying chickens.

            I can't buy those chickens eggs anymore. Have to buy at least free range. So less eggs for me.

            •  I saw the video as well about the hens conditions (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              ban nock

              too...I don't know that it's all chicken eggs.  The video I saw was from a local grocery chain here in New York called Wegmans...I don't buy their eggs ever since I saw the video.

              Money has been a problem since October 2008, when the company I worked for went bankrupt and I was out of a job.

              Today I make $9 an hour at Avis as a Rental Sales Agent.  

              Yesterday I made stuffed peppers all the ingredients cost me over $25 dollars.  I made 6 peppers with mashed potatoes and spaghetti squash. That extra $25 was my "expendable" income after bills were paid.

              I've been trying to avoid fish products due to Fukishima and the corexit from the BP oil spill.  Both oceans, Atlantic and Pacific, are dying because of our actions.

              -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

              by gerrilea on Mon Oct 14, 2013 at 07:06:28 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  I'd be more concerned with the poisons we (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                gerrilea

                flush down our rivers that come from industrial pollutants and wastes from our cities. Often fish are quite a ways up the food chain. In Asia where many of our fish come from there are virtually no pollution controls. When I see Tilapia and prawns from China and Thailand all I can think of is the effluent that comes out of the factories I've seen there.

                “Conservation… is a positive exercise of skill and insight, not merely a negative exercise of abstinence and caution…” Aldo Leopold

                by ban nock on Mon Oct 14, 2013 at 07:40:31 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

        •  I don't get that luxury anymore... (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Mark Mywurtz, ban nock, melo
          I understand that that slab of beef in plastic wrap does not conjure the same immediate emotional horror as the idea of an animal shot.
          A few years back, my Dad and I stood outside Dodge City, KS on our motorcycles at a lookout overlooking the feedlots and processing plant.  The cows were being stuffed full of corn in overcrowded pens, knee-deep in their own shit, shit covering their hides, and the smell was apparent even when we had ridden 5 miles away from there.  The overlook had a sign proudly proclaiming that the plant processed 6000 head of cattle a day.

          My dad looked at me and said, "This place is the Auschwitz for Cows".   He was right.

          I think of that place everytime I want to stop at a fast-food restuarant for a hamburger, or see the food-colored injected beef at the grocery store.

          Those who choose to stick their heads in the sand when it comes to where there food comes from....happy to see their sanitized package at the store, with no regards to where their food came from, ARE the problem!

          We can NOT pretend to be a democracy when we have secret laws, with secret courts, with secret verdicts, with secret prisoners, in secret prisons!

          by MusicFarmer on Mon Oct 14, 2013 at 01:31:05 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I've lived within smell distance of feed lots (0+ / 0-)

            often. Good for predicting changes in the weather when you are W or S of them.  Drove by a very small abandoned one today, right next to the interstate, now it's big box stores and housing developments.

            Feed lots are stinky, but if you want to go where it's happening you have to go to the kill floor in a slaughterhouse. The smells are different, and the sounds are loud.

            The feed lot does what is called "finishing" it adds taste by feeding them corn. That's the delicious fatty taste to beef. Without it beef doesn't sell for as much.

            “Conservation… is a positive exercise of skill and insight, not merely a negative exercise of abstinence and caution…” Aldo Leopold

            by ban nock on Mon Oct 14, 2013 at 04:14:15 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  I'm a little less bothered by butchering hogs (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        MusicFarmer, ban nock, FarWestGirl

        if they're farm-raised than wild, 'cause the meat is (slightly) less likely to carry virulent diseases as a result of the way even the bigger farmers raise their animals.

        But I"m talking about farmers, not ConAgra and similar feedlot operators. Any time you're looking at CAFO meat, or milk, you're looking at animals subjected to unnatural conditions (usually miserably so).

        LBJ, Van Cliburn, Ike, Wendy Davis, Lady Bird, Ann Richards, Barbara Jordan, Molly Ivins, Sully Sullenburger, Drew Brees: Texas is NO Bush League!

        by BlackSheep1 on Mon Oct 14, 2013 at 11:37:12 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  People turn away from the facts. If they can hide (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ban nock

      what happens from themselves, they can pretend not to be responsible. I believe that if people eat meat, they should know how it is raised and butchered. If they're not willing to take responsibility for eating the product of that process, then they're being dishonest and they should stick to being vegetarian.

      I was vegetarian for almost 7 years. Then I decided that being a respectful part of the cycle of life and death was every bit as valid as that sub set who tried to remove themselves from life by refusing to be a part of the icky bits.

      If someone is respectful of the lives they take and use what they take, I have no problem with hunting. But trophy hunters or people who condemn others while staying at safe remove from the consequences of their own appetites, those I have no patience for.

       There was a tv show last fall, based in England, can't remember the name, but it was pretty graphic. It took groups of people and showed them how animals were raised, hunted, butchered and prepared. And had them take part all along the way. A few were veg or vegan, but most were average folks. And the experience changed them.  Only one became vegetarian, but they all had greater respect and understanding of the ethics of raising livestock for food. And they quit buying junk food, (McNuggets, etc), after seeing what went into it and tasting the real thing. lol

      Information is abundant, wisdom is scarce. ~The Druid.
      ~Ideals aren't goals, they're navigation aids.~

      by FarWestGirl on Mon Oct 14, 2013 at 07:05:50 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I wish I could go Vegan (4+ / 0-)

    or at least a vegetarian. In my defensive, I buy my meat, milk (yummy raw milk!) and eggs from a local farmer.

    I know they were humanly raised and butchered. It bothers me, so I've cut down on the meat eating.
    I don't eat gelatin products, wear fur or leather.  

    I don't eat any fish or seafood though.

    That said my pets have to eat meat. Cats esp: they need taurine(only available from meat) in their diet, or they'll go blind.

    Hunting done the right way is far more humane then supermarket meat. The hunters I know take it very seriously, and don't do it for sport. They despise the Ted Nugent types!

    I don't think it's a coincidence that these same people believe in reasonable gun control laws, are strict about safety, and think the idiots who parade around with them are assholes and show offs.

    "Down with sodomy, up with teabagging!" Sign @ TeaBilly rally.

    by pitbullgirl65 on Sun Oct 13, 2013 at 07:00:48 PM PDT

    •  The more I learn the more I learn that there are (4+ / 0-)

      many "right" ways.

      I dislike Ted Nugent because he's a big mouth RW ######, and I don't choose to hunt the way he does, but that's my own personal esthetic choice. Where he comes from that's how many do it. Bait, etc.

      State game commissions make laws to not only reflect local mores and ethics but also to maintain desired population levels of all species and  fund research on non game species. I try not to be judgemental of how others do things if they are legal, rather I consider how I decide to do things.

      I can't tell the difference between the eggs our chickens lay and store bought ones. Might not keep the layers through the winter.

      “Conservation… is a positive exercise of skill and insight, not merely a negative exercise of abstinence and caution…” Aldo Leopold

      by ban nock on Sun Oct 13, 2013 at 07:49:54 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Home grown eggs generally have stronger color (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ban nock

        and the yolk is rounder. The store-bought eggs have been sitting and traveling for a week or more, so the yolks stretch and flatten when cracked. And the color is usually much paler yellow than home grown, especially if your flock gets out and ranges for bugs and veggies.

        Information is abundant, wisdom is scarce. ~The Druid.
        ~Ideals aren't goals, they're navigation aids.~

        by FarWestGirl on Mon Oct 14, 2013 at 07:15:04 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Thanks for the diary (5+ / 0-)

    and video, ban nock.  I learned a lot.

    “The answer must be, I think, that beauty and grace are performed whether or not we will or sense them. The least we can do is try to be there.” ― Annie Dillard, Pilgrim at Tinker Creek

    by 6412093 on Sun Oct 13, 2013 at 08:04:51 PM PDT

  •  I'm not a hunter... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ban nock

    ...and never will be because I dislike nature. Like Calvin says, nature's always stinging you or oozing muck on you. I have no ethical qualm about it as long as the rules are followed. I know hunters, all of whom are self-guided. In fact it surprised me that you suggest guide hunting is as popular as it is.

    Sometimes I wish I could learn to hunt, but it just involves too much time in the wilderness for my taste. Well regardless, I enjoy the meat brought back from hunting.

  •  "Is it kind?" (0+ / 0-)

    A ridiculously absurd criteria for a hunter to utter.

    •  not true considering the alternatives (8+ / 0-)

      to a swift death by a hunter's projectile include:

      death by vehicle
      death by barbed wire
      death by starvation
      death by wild predator

      in my mind nothing is more insulting to an animal than the first two alternatives,

      nothing is more heart-breaking than the third,

      and nothing more honorable than the last.

      excellent diary as is usual for ban nock...excellent video and excellent comments too.

      thanks!

      Yesterday is History, Tomorrow is a Mystery. Today is a gift and that's why it's called "The Present".

      by elkhunter on Mon Oct 14, 2013 at 07:23:01 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I went hunting in Texas once (3+ / 0-)

    It was for wild pigs that root up and destroy the land - they are actually nuisance animals. I ended up sitting in a tree stand for hours and hours waiting for the pigs to show up at the automatic feeder they had set out earlier to lure them in - it was actually very boring.

    The Texas hill country was pretty but that's not what I would consider interesting hunting.

    I ask him if he was warm enough? "Warm," he growled, "I haven't been warm since Bastogne."

    by Unrepentant Liberal on Mon Oct 14, 2013 at 07:47:55 AM PDT

    •  From what I've heard tree stands are effective (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      FarWestGirl

      in areas with lots of animals. It also helps with safety as you are shooting down into the ground. Sure would be nice to shoot off a rest.

      I think the reason no one does it where I live is that not only are there many fewer animals per square mile due to this being dry country and having three predators of deer, but also the main game animal is elk and they tend to bunch up together anywhere over tens or even hundreds of miles. Chances are nothing will walk by.

      Hunting invasive pigs is the fastest growing subset of hunting.

      “Conservation… is a positive exercise of skill and insight, not merely a negative exercise of abstinence and caution…” Aldo Leopold

      by ban nock on Mon Oct 14, 2013 at 09:31:44 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Feral hog hunting really isn't hunting as much as (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Username4242, ban nock, melo, FarWestGirl

      varmint control. Those things are destructive (and they're not native; we're not talking javelinas here, we're talking the roaming offspring of Russian boar -- ironically, introduced about 30 years ago to provide canned-hunt "challenging game" -- and abandoned / escaped hogs gone feral). They wreck the habitat and actively eat the young and eggs of other species; they're as omnivorous as humans, just as greedy, and even messier with their wastes.

      LBJ, Van Cliburn, Ike, Wendy Davis, Lady Bird, Ann Richards, Barbara Jordan, Molly Ivins, Sully Sullenburger, Drew Brees: Texas is NO Bush League!

      by BlackSheep1 on Mon Oct 14, 2013 at 11:41:54 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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