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Since its inception, liberals have supported Apple, Inc. loyally. But, the company has been a bad actor for many years without losing any of its standing. From worker exploitation to tax evasion, its reputation remains shiny. The latest news that Koch Industries has bought a major supplier for Apple has got to make some liberals take pause.

For decades, liberals have proudly stood by Apple, Inc. In the early days of the company post-1984, it represented the vanguard of high quality computers. If you could afford one, it was self-evident that it was better computer when compared to PCs which were notorious for crashing. Its recurring flaw was the difficulty of designing software for it, but by this point in time, the company and the computers had a following. One of the characteristics of that following was that it included a lot of liberals. The company presented itself as the alternative to conformity, especially following their infamous “Big Brother” commercial, and liberals have always been proudly non-conformist. They want to improve the status quo, progress beyond the limitations of the past, and seek alternatives to going along with the crowd. So, even as the company experienced ups and downs over the decades since its founding, liberals have been stalwart supporters.

There is no question the company has been innovative. How many people remember the clumsy, bulky Walkman replaced with the sleek iPod which could carry hundreds of songs, instead of just playing the radio or a single CD or cassette tape?  The advent of CDs made the Walkman even more bulky and awkward. But, the iPod made the Walkman obsolete. The library of songs available at iTunes, with an original cost of less than a dollar, was a music collector’s dream. The lure of Apple products just kept on. The iPhone broke new ground with its touch screen, a host of features ranging from music to video recording, and an endless supply of applications. The iPad was equally enticing: lightweight, potentially capable of replacing a laptop under many circumstances, and again, there are all of those applications. It is easy to see why the company continues to have millions of fans.

However, the past few years have revealed the nasty underbelly of the company. It started with the FoxConn suicides. Aside from the shamefulness of moving jobs overseas to exploit low-wage workers in communist countries (for which Apple gets a pass, since “everyone’s doing it), the news that Apple’s supplier of iPhones was such a miserable place to work that people repeatedly ended their lives by jumping out the windows the factory should have given American consumers pause. But, we’re good at compartmentalizing, and the reaction seemed to be, “Well, that’s awful. Something should be done about it, but I’m not giving up my Apple products.” The workers were too far away and too foreign to even raise the specter of a boycott. FoxConn promised to raise the salary of workers by 70% (how low salaries must have been to make such an increase possible). Better working conditions were also promised, but Apple eventually decided to move to another supplier anyway.

That’s when it got worse. A group called, China Labor Watch, announced in late July 2013 that Apple’s new supplier is “even worse than FoxConn.” Pegatron, the new supplier, employs 70,000 workers. According to China Labor Watch, the company has health and safety violations, poor living conditions in dorms, and coercion of workers by withholding their pay or identity cards. Apple promised to investigate, but one wonders why a multi-billion dollar corporation that sells so much of its market share to Americans can’t stop exploiting workers and won’t consider moving its operations back to employ American workers. Oh yes, profits. Because that’s all that matters. Doesn’t sound very non-conformist.

This year came a new revelation about the extent to which Apple is willing to shirk corporate responsibility, lack appreciation, and show disdain for the American people who make it so rich. Avoiding paying taxes on $74 billion dollars in profits by setting up shell companies in Ireland may not be illegal, but it is shady, underhanded, and just plain heinous.  The country is shutting down programs for the poor, for people with cancer, and making cuts to scientific research, but at least Apple didn’t have to part with any money for taxes. Even company co-founder, Steve Wozniak was appalled at what the company had done, and spoke out against the tax practices as “unethical.” In the category of “that’s rich,” Apple avoided paying taxes that would have helped fund education, only to turn around and criticize the country for not having enough well-trained workers.

However, the final nail in the coffin for liberal support of Apple should come with the announcement this month that the Koch brothers have now purchased a key supplier for Apple products. This means every time you invest your money into an Apple product, the multi-billionaires are saying, “Ka-ching.” This supplier, Molex, has 41 plants in 15 countries where they manufacture electronics components, and brings in $3.62 billion a year. The Koch brothers just bought the company for $7.2 billion dollars. Daniel Gross of the Daily Beast writes,

“Consumers tend to care that things are reasonably priced, that they work, and that they look cool. So I wouldn’t expect a boycott. In fact, Koch Industries’ acquisition of a major Apple supplier may reinforce Apple’s status as a hipster brand. Irony is a key component of the hipster aesthetic. And what could be more ironic than liberals funding Koch Industries?”
The sad thing is, he’s probably right. There will be no change in shopping habits based on the 1) exploitation of workers, 2) tax avoidance, or 3) support of Koch brothers.  It is true that competitors have produced their own touchscreen phones and tablets, often at lower prices, and with a greater capacity for programmers to create applications. Unfortunately, all of these competitors do the same nasty things that Apple does, so there is no escaping the corporate malfeasance. But, Apple doesn’t deserve to be seen as the “cool” brand by liberals. If we stuck to our principles, it would be time for liberals to stop giving Apple a pass.

11:27 AM PT: Based on the comments, there were clearly a lot of liberals who squirmed when their principles were put to the test. Rather than focus even on the most egregious, inexcusable action by Apple: using a more exploitative worker factory than it did even when it used FoxxConn, people rushed to make excuses for the company. Clearly, liberals won't be exerting any pressure on the company anytime soon to make change. But, that's because Apple gets a pass. Instead of focusing on their bad behavior, let's pick at whether liberals really use Apples or whether Wozniak really thinks Apple is wrong to pay so little in taxes, because we don't like the links provided. Those are pressing issues. Exploited workers and tax havens...Pffft. Who cares about that?

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Comment Preferences

  •  First, Molex supplies hardware... (32+ / 0-)

    ...for all computer manufacturers. Charles and David Koch only expand their holdings, not inovate.

    Second, I consider myself a liberal, and neither I, nor my wife, own any Apple hardware. I consider thier products overpriced and limited in scope.


  •  Microsoft was worse. (10+ / 0-)

    Both are now mature Corporations.

    Kodak has turned into a patent troll.

    •  But are they worse now? (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Victor Ward, suka, dmegivern, wader, elwior

      It's no longer easy to say.

      None are so hopelessly enslaved, as those who falsely believe they are free. The truth has been kept from the depth of their minds by masters who rule them with lies. -Johann von Goethe

      by gjohnsit on Mon Oct 28, 2013 at 10:22:49 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Not at all. (5+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        suka, wader, Eyesbright, jabney, Shotput8

        They don't commit actual obvious theft anymore.

        Windows 8 is not a success but 9 is likely to be.

        Rather like Star Trek flicks.

        95 went through many iterations starting from only 13 floppies.

        XP sucked at start but got fixed. It included a new device driver model.

        Vista sucked until the machine drivers were fixed.

        Touch screens seem to be problematic at the driver level.

    •  Troll? (6+ / 0-)

      Kodak is a goldmine of patents after doing decades of what was then cutting-edge research.

      They are now an aging giant in a dead industry but almost every new development in film, film making, digital video, color synthesizing, etc is based on work pioneered by Kodak.

      The fact that they are all aging is demonstrated by their recent sale price of $527 million versus the $2.6 BILLION they were originally thought to be worth.

      Even still... that's almost $500K per patent which is a hell of lot more than we've seen other IP sell for recently.  Google bought the Motorola Mobility patents for barely $200K each and they are much more relevant.

      Красота спасет мир --F. Dostoevsky

      by Wisper on Mon Oct 28, 2013 at 10:37:08 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  "Democrats may suck, but Republicans suck... (8+ / 0-)


      Apple may suck, but Microsoft... you get the picture.

      This is an incredibly juvenile argument. You cannot defend the reprehensible acts of one entity by pointing out that another entity is more reprehensible.

      I started to lose my "faith" in Apple when it became apparent that Steve Jobs was far more of a dick than his cutely colored iMacs and user-friendly interfaces might imply.

      Jobs always appeared to be a "champion of the people" and a master innovator when Apple was an underdog. But every time Apple achieved super-success a darker side of Jobs was revealed, guilty of far less ethical behavior than was pinned on Bill Gates.

      This became readily apparent when the iPhone came out, and was an entirely closed system. The App Store and iTunes have turned out to be systems of highway robbery, where Apple skims profit from all software and content providers.

      Think of it. If you want to sell a tool to an owner of a computer, you have to give Apple a cut, and Apple gets to approve or disapprove of your offering.

      This gives Apple a guaranteed revenue stream, at the expense of developers, and gives Apple total control of what you can do with your device!

      Further, Apple products have gone from being the most secure consumer computers to corporate spyware devices of the first order. Apple has been busted for collecting location information on every iPhone owner (for reasons they would not explain), and their response was to make sure the file where the location data was stored is now encrypted before it is transmitted to Apple (for reasons they will not explain).

      We now do not know what information an iPhone, iPad, or Mac collects on us, and transmits to Apple for storage and analysis. You simply cannot secure your Apple product from Apple itself.

      Further, Apple was identified by the Snowden leaks as one of the chief corporate NSA confederates. So we can assume that all that data collected on us by Apple goes directly to the enemy of all Americans, the NSA.

      Steve Jobs began as a genius of innovation, bringing enlightened consumers miracles of technology. He died as an intrusive control freak, an asshole, and an enemy of the Bill of Rights.

      You may now resume talking about the abusive practices of Apple's hardware manufacturers, and the toxic politics of the proud new owners of some of those parts suppliers...

      "Politeness is wasted on the dishonest, who will always take advantage of any well-intended concession." - Barrett Brown

      by 3rdOption on Mon Oct 28, 2013 at 12:34:26 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Thanks for your concern (16+ / 0-)

    I'll let those liberals know when i see them.

  •  Every large company is the same (38+ / 0-)

    They will do whatever they can to reduce costs.

    But, they have to operate within the law, which is where we come in - it's our government, and we set the law. That's where we need to focus, I think.

    Sure, you can get some incremental gains by shaming various companies about things like this - it can't hurt. But, I think the real pressure needs to be to get the laws changed. Otherwise, you'll just be forced to shame the next company and the next one and the next one...

    Freedom isn't free. That's why we pay taxes.

    by walk2live on Mon Oct 28, 2013 at 10:01:07 AM PDT

  •  Disingenuous (26+ / 0-)
    Steve Wozniak was appalled at what the company had done, and spoke out against the tax practices as “unethical.”
    He said absolutely and unequivocally NO SUCH THING.  He was speaking in Londonberry about EU corporate tax policy in general .

    He was not calling out Apple specifically nor was he speaking about any specific behavior.  His comments were about the global legal policy that corporations are taxed on profit rather than income.

    "That means corporations pay taxes on all of their revenues or people only pay it on a tiny amount called profit and until we rectify that the whole problem is just with us forever."

    Why do businessmen get to write off lunches and cars? If normal people did they would have more savings.

    "That is really not fair, that businesses are not treated the same as people.  

    "A person would say, 'my life is my business and I have to pay for my home, pay for my clothes, my food and what is left over if I make a little money some year and put it in savings, that is my profit', but people are not taxed on profit, they are taxed on income."

    Those are the only quotes in that article, nor is there anything else in the full speech if you bother to look it up.  

    If you agree with his idea about reforming the general policy we use to levy taxes so be it but he did not say he was appalled at Apple's behavior re: tax payments or anything and to suggest otherwise is an unfounded lie you are using to prop up your own bias.

    Nice hit piece.

    Красота спасет мир --F. Dostoevsky

    by Wisper on Mon Oct 28, 2013 at 10:03:59 AM PDT

  •  Needs more cowbell. (30+ / 0-)

    Also, I think you mean 'libruls'.

    This message was sent on my iMac.  

    Ho'oponopono. To make things right; restore harmony; heal.

    by earicicle on Mon Oct 28, 2013 at 10:06:56 AM PDT

  •  I never understood why anyone venerated Apple (27+ / 0-)

    liberal, conservative or otherwise.  They are just a company.  That they may do business with Koch Industries doesn't surprise me in the least.  Its called capitalism.  No corporation is your friend.  

  •  Was Apple liberal or just Steve Jobs? (12+ / 0-)

    My impression is maybe Steve Jobs had some residual West Coast 60s hippy liberalism, although even he outsourced everything and screwed over retail workers, all while hoarding cash like Scrooge McDuck.

    I'm pretty confident the current management has absolutely no liberal bias that doesn't serve their own tech interests.

  •  The whole premise is absurd. (19+ / 0-)

    Liberals don't have any special affinity for Apple.

    You know, I sometimes think if I could see, I'd be kicking a lot of ass. -Stevie Wonder at the Glastonbury Festival, 2010

    by Rich in PA on Mon Oct 28, 2013 at 10:11:36 AM PDT

  •  If you want new tax policy, change the law. (15+ / 0-)

    Why are you gunning for Apple?  Yes, they follow current US statutes regarding taxable income which includes many ways to minimize a company's tax burden.

    Those are the current rules of the game.  That's all companies go by (unless they are criminal in which case they break those laws and should be prosecuted).

    Unless you have evidence suggesting such things you are simply accusing Apple of following the law as written.

    Do you have any reason to believe that if the US changed its law Apple and other companies like it would not continue to comply?  Raise the rates.  Close a loophole.  Change the formula used to calculate taxable income.  Do whatever the tax experts think is the best course, but you can be damn sure that whatever the law is is exactly what thousands and thousands of companies will do re: compliance.

    Tax laws carry significant penalties for corporations with compounding penalties and often a risk of being disallowed from selling products in the country of violation.  They have whole departments that work full-time to make sure they are in exact compliance with local, state, federal and international laws.

    If you want different behavior, just change the law.

    Красота спасет мир --F. Dostoevsky

    by Wisper on Mon Oct 28, 2013 at 10:11:52 AM PDT

  •  Not sure about the current products,... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    earicicle, ksuwildkat

    ...but back in the day (the day being 2004 in my case), Apple laptops really were worth that extra expense.  My aluminum 2004 G4 powerbook is still happily humming along, especially with the addition of the 10 4 Fox tabbed browser,  Mozilla-based.  It even has its original hard drive.  Your average PC from that time period has found its way to the recycling center.

    I'm not always political, but when I am I vote Democratic. Stay Democratic, my friends. -The Most Interesting Man in the World

    by boran2 on Mon Oct 28, 2013 at 10:20:23 AM PDT

    •  I'm on my fourth Mac desktop...since 1986. (5+ / 0-)

      Amortize that, baby!

      Ho'oponopono. To make things right; restore harmony; heal.

      by earicicle on Mon Oct 28, 2013 at 10:41:55 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Heh, same here. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Wee Mama, earicicle

        My current Mac Pro will last at least another 7 years.  It was purchased used and even with all the upgrades, the cost per year will be quite modest.

        I could do the same with a PC, but then I wouldn't be able to use OS X, at least not easily.  I've tinkered with Hackintoshes but got sick of having to tinker for every OS update.  Now I tinker on my Mac Pro at my convenience to keep current.

        "When I was an alien, cultures weren't opinions" ~ Kurt Cobain, Territorial Pissings

        by Subterranean on Mon Oct 28, 2013 at 12:51:36 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I bought one Mac new. Never again; used is good (0+ / 0-)


          I paid $600 for a 2006 Mac Pro close to 2 years ago, two dual-core 3GHz processors, for the sole purpose of being able to play Diablo III when it came out. It replaced a G5 I picked up for $200. It will work fine for me for at least the next 2-3 years, albeit with some minor RAM and drive upgrades. Biggest issue is it won't run 10.8 - which, frankly, I'm ok with. I have a few issues with the integration of Mac OS and iOS that started right about there.

          •  Nice! (0+ / 0-)

            It's great how you can buy any old used Mac Pro, drop a few hundred in it, and have a respectable performer for most anything a home user could want.

            I picked up a used 2009 Mac Pro last year for under 1K.  Upgraded the firmware to a macpro5,1, then dropped in a Hexacore Xeon I found for a crazy low price used on ebay.  I also slapped in SATA III and USB 3.0 PCIe cards, both natively supported via OS X :P  I use it to make a little extra money selling PC video cards updated to Mac firmware to local Mac Pro users, so it's already paid for itself.  

            I can't imagine buying a Mac new.  My parents and a few other family members are set up with Macs I bought used and tweaked with RAM and SSDs, all for about half the price of new Macs.  They're all happy and are set for years!

            "When I was an alien, cultures weren't opinions" ~ Kurt Cobain, Territorial Pissings

            by Subterranean on Mon Oct 28, 2013 at 05:05:22 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  Bought my first iMac in 2005 (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        with some of the money we got after Mom died -- just bought the second one in late 2011 when the first one died. My late father-in-law went through two Dell POS between when I got my first iMac and when he died in 2010, and that doesn't count the HP that he started with. (All three were sitting in his office when we cleared the place out.)

        There's only one rule that I know of, babies -- goddammit, you've got to be kind. -- Kurt Vonnegut

        by Cali Scribe on Mon Oct 28, 2013 at 02:12:08 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Amen (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      earicicle, boran2, Subterranean, Wee Mama

      My original Intel MacBook Pro lasted until 2011 - 5 years for a version 1 product.  Never had a WinTel laptop make it to a third year.  

      When you look at total cost of ownership instead of upfront cost, Macs win every time.  

      It is well that war is so terrible -- lest we should grow too fond of it. Robert E. Lee

      by ksuwildkat on Mon Oct 28, 2013 at 12:07:46 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  A-yup. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Subterranean, Wee Mama

        In year 27 of Mac ownership, I'm only on desktop Mac #4. All in--including monitors, specialized keyboards, AppleCare, printers--I'm looking at a cost of about $200/year. And my home computer IS my work computer. I'm on it 24/7/365.

        Also: Never a problem. Ever. So there's that.

        Ho'oponopono. To make things right; restore harmony; heal.

        by earicicle on Mon Oct 28, 2013 at 12:29:07 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I had a kernel panic back in 2001! (0+ / 0-)

          I can still remember the desk I was at, what I was working on, and the music I was playing.  

          "When I was an alien, cultures weren't opinions" ~ Kurt Cobain, Territorial Pissings

          by Subterranean on Mon Oct 28, 2013 at 12:53:02 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  I've had a few problems with my MBP... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          ...but they were mostly related to my former practice of lugging my laptop from home to work and back again every day, and all the wear and tear (and picking up and setting down and getting my bag bumped and yada yada yada) that comes along with that—which tends not to be good for things like hard drives with all those tiny moving parts.

          No notebook with an HDD can withstand that kind of abuse forever, which is why I got a MacBook Air (SSD) for my "carry around" computer.

          The only other problem I ever had with my MacBook Pro was related to my spilling half a bottle of beer on it. Say about that what you will.

          The latter problem was the only one that wasn't covered by my AppleCare warranty, and in all cases, Time Machine backups have meant I've never had >12 hours of downtime. In my PC days, if my laptop fried out, I'd be weeks trying to recover and reinstall everything.

          "When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." --Dom Helder Camara, archbishop of Recife

          by JamesGG on Mon Oct 28, 2013 at 02:29:20 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  mine's SEVEN years old...and working fine, thanks (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Subterranean, Wee Mama, earicicle

        ...slower than it was, long in tooth, etc. - but I'm using it now.  And, times being as they are, I'll KEEP using it 'til I can't make it run anymore...can't afford not to (can't afford even the cheapest replacement, truth be told)

        trying to stay alive 'til I reach 65!

        by chmood on Mon Oct 28, 2013 at 12:32:45 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  I can top that - my first powerbook was a 40 (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Cali Scribe, earicicle

      (for the 40M drive - yes, children, M, not G), in 1992. When I needed a larger and faster machine my daughter asked if her friend's mother could have the 40, to use for publishing a newsletter. It is still being used for that, to the best of my knowledge - as a twenty+ year old laptop.

      Is it true? Is it kind? Is it necessary? . . . and respect the dignity of every human being.

      by Wee Mama on Mon Oct 28, 2013 at 02:01:40 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  So true (14+ / 0-)

    Apple may still be better than Microsoft, but that's not saying much, and not by much.

      Apple has invested a lot of time and money to define themselves. It's paid off because people pay more for Apple products than for competitive products from other countries.

      And speaking of Big Brother, I don't see how anyone can tolerate iTunes. What a piece of cr*p software.

      If you really wanted to be cool and non-conformist you would go open-source. Linux products are now easy to use.

    None are so hopelessly enslaved, as those who falsely believe they are free. The truth has been kept from the depth of their minds by masters who rule them with lies. -Johann von Goethe

    by gjohnsit on Mon Oct 28, 2013 at 10:22:20 AM PDT

    •  Yes... it must be crap (7+ / 0-)

      Its only been used to sell over 3 songs for every living man, woman and child on EARTH.

      If iTunes were a country it would have the 13th largest GDP on the planet, just above Spain and just under Australia.

      Odd how so many people can't see it for the piece of cr*p that it is.

      Красота спасет мир --F. Dostoevsky

      by Wisper on Mon Oct 28, 2013 at 10:29:30 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  It is cr*p (9+ / 0-)

        Just because it sells a lot doesn't not make it cr*p.
           Microsoft Windows sells a lot. That doesn't not make it a cr*p operating system.

         iTunes is Big Brother software and takes over part of your computer. Most of its functions are totally unnecessary for the user. It only makes sense for Apple and the music industry.

           I'm guessing that you haven't used a non-Apple product. Otherwise you would notice that handling your music can be fast and easy.

        None are so hopelessly enslaved, as those who falsely believe they are free. The truth has been kept from the depth of their minds by masters who rule them with lies. -Johann von Goethe

        by gjohnsit on Mon Oct 28, 2013 at 10:36:03 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  You're guessing wrong (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          I use non-apple products.  I generally only use iTunes to stream some video when I'm looking for something outside of Netflix or Amazon.

          I used to use the desktop iTunes app to organize my ebook/pdf library because I was using Stanza which I decided was invented by a demented sadist and Calibre didn't grab me.  But that was just for my own files, not buying that much off the iTunes store.

          But my point was not just that it makes money, its that MILLIONS of people actually like using it.  They find its "big brother takeover" to be convenient automation so that they don't have to manage things at the file level themselves.

          I know a few people at work that also use it because of its parental control features for their young children.

          I suppose its a matter of taste.  

          Красота спасет мир --F. Dostoevsky

          by Wisper on Mon Oct 28, 2013 at 10:51:12 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Don't think that sales numbers = high quality (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        TiaRachel, JesseCW

        Apple has done a great job in their marketing and limiting their devices to focus cross-sales via an initially exclusive marketplace.  What they offered in apparent convenience was actually conditioning customers into an expectation of integration and support that was wholly Apple-based, much as their hardware has been so tightly controlled all these years - it's how they obviously prefer to do business.

        I can't live with their interfaces (desktop or portable) and avoid systems akin to claustrophobia, while the necessary DRM that used to be prevalent in their iTunes store made moving between devices more of a hassle than it needed to be, IMHO.

        "So, please stay where you are. Don't move and don't panic. Don't take off your shoes! Jobs is on the way."

        by wader on Mon Oct 28, 2013 at 11:14:11 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  McDonalds sells a lot of burgers. (0+ / 0-)

        "But the traitors will pretend / that it's gettin' near the end / when it's beginning" P. Ochs

        by JesseCW on Mon Oct 28, 2013 at 04:34:35 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Is the hardware open-source too? (7+ / 0-)
      If you really wanted to be cool and non-conformist you would go open-source. Linux products are now easy to use.
      Molex isn't a software company; it's a hardware company, making various components that go into computers. Their parts aren't just used in Apple machines; they're used in computers made by all sorts of manufacturers.

      So unless you've got a manufacturer who doesn't use Molex (or any other objectionable supplier), running Linux instead of OSX or Windows doesn't really make your choices any less objectionable, insofar as it concerns this news.

      "When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." --Dom Helder Camara, archbishop of Recife

      by JamesGG on Mon Oct 28, 2013 at 10:37:56 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  and they keep making it worse (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      with each new version. the only way to make itunes sound good is to buy third party software (amarra, decibel, puremusic- each of which has problems, but sounds great when it works) that bypasses its playback functions.

      The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

      by Laurence Lewis on Mon Oct 28, 2013 at 11:04:35 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Say what you will about iTunes (5+ / 0-)

      but it proved to the record companies that DRM was a losing proposition.

      •  It was great when it was focused on "tunes" (0+ / 0-)

        It was never meant to be the syncronization of hub everything that goes on an iDevice.  For that role, it's awful.  I really wish Apple would rethink iTunes.

        "When I was an alien, cultures weren't opinions" ~ Kurt Cobain, Territorial Pissings

        by Subterranean on Mon Oct 28, 2013 at 12:56:00 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  It works fine for what I need (0+ / 0-)

      Some of us don't have the time or the knowhow to go open-source. And you have to know what you're doing to find a Linux package that is truly as easy to use as anything from Apple or Microsoft. (I'll admit that Win7 isn't as horrendous as earlier MS iterations -- I'm dual booting on my iMac because my Sims games play way better on native Windows rather than emulation.)

      I'm listening to music on my computer in iTunes while typing this, in fact -- some of the music from Doctor Who, in fact (the portion where Ten transformed into Eleven). As I said, it works for what I need.

      There's only one rule that I know of, babies -- goddammit, you've got to be kind. -- Kurt Vonnegut

      by Cali Scribe on Mon Oct 28, 2013 at 02:17:26 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  It is time, alright (12+ / 0-)

    for you to quit posting your breathless hyperbole, half truths and misdirection about Apple.

    "Whenever the people are well-informed, they can be trusted with their own government" T. Jefferson

    by azureblue on Mon Oct 28, 2013 at 10:24:32 AM PDT

  •  Google does this, Microsoft Does this, etc... (7+ / 0-)

    And I think it sucks, but every large company will behave this way, until we win enough elections to set policy otherwise.

    ***Be Excellent To One Another***

    by potatohead on Mon Oct 28, 2013 at 10:32:24 AM PDT

  •  This is a made up blog (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    earwulf, terrybuck, Matt Z, wu ming

    There is no evidence that liberals support Apple.  This is asserted by the blogger, but no evidence is proven that Apples market share is politically based.  

    Apple consumers buy Apple products because they work, they are not full viruses, and they don't have to read the manual.
    Liberatians, socialists, anarchists, conservatives, and the mythical moderates could all find those reasons compelling.

    I am more socialist than liberal so I am not expert on liberals but I observe many liberals using Windows.

  •  Globalization, Supply Chains: are not Liberal /nt (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    dmegivern, TiaRachel, NancyK

    Warning - some snark may be above‽ (-9.50; -7.03)‽ eState4Column5©2013 "I’m not the strapping young Muslim socialist that I used to be" - Barack Obama 04/27/2013

    by annieli on Mon Oct 28, 2013 at 10:49:25 AM PDT

  •  Mr. Peach used to work for Apple (9+ / 0-)

    Right after we got married, Mr. Peach lost his job.  He was hired by Apple's warehouse in NC.  The biggest perk he had was getting a new computer every year (at least they did back then).  All we had to pay was the sales tax, which was far less than the machine was worth.  He did pretty well.

    We moved out to IL when the other facility closed.  During our time in IL, the company decided to outsource all their warehousing and shipping to an outside company whose name escapes me at the moment.  (Okay, not really)  At the time, we believed in the Apple "Think Different" slogan.  That they were a different sort of company, one who actually gave a damn about its workers.  He was told that he wouldn't be laid off, but immediately hired by the outside company.  He was told they really wanted to keep him.

    Then he got the notice that he was laid off.  He wasn't told until the next week that he had been rehired by the other company, either.  He was, frankly, crushed.  All the "we care about our employees" was revealed for the marketing strategy it was.

    Ever since then Apple's been just another MegaCorp to us, with increasingly inferior products.  We have an eMac that's chugging along enough to let me play Myst, Riven and Frankenstein, a MacBook Pro that Mr. Peach uses for his current job, and a MacBook Air that's been replaced twice in 3 years.  Not quite a fangirl anymore, for all that.

  •  I don't have much liking for Apple products (4+ / 0-)

    or marketing (the latter of which I respect for its prior effectiveness), but never considered them a company with "liberal" attitudes or leaders.  Look at their machinations in the digital book market as a simple example - they're big-money capitalists, through and through, IMHO.

    Still, Koch can and will buy up anything that keeps their obscene desire for owning more and more in this world - that's not shown as being an Apple-led issue.

    "So, please stay where you are. Don't move and don't panic. Don't take off your shoes! Jobs is on the way."

    by wader on Mon Oct 28, 2013 at 10:57:19 AM PDT

  •  At least diarist didn't say "libtards." (7+ / 0-)

    : /

    Life is good. Injustice? Not so much.

    by westyny on Mon Oct 28, 2013 at 10:58:36 AM PDT

  •  Most of my friends work for Apple, (9+ / 0-)

    And they're exemplary examples of the kind of employee mistreatment that Darksyde detailed in his recent front-page post on the plight of customer service employees.  One of my friends summed it up as "Upper Management clearly read about the Stanford Prison Experiment, and thought that was clearly the Best Idea Ever."

  •  Thank you for this important diary. I'm a proud (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    dmegivern, chuck utzman, JeffW

    non-supporter of all things Apple from the start, though at the beginning it was b/c of their insulting "don't worry your purty little head about this - we'll make all the decisions" attitude toward the computer user. Now I'm really, really happy I never got on the Apple bandwagon, b/c I can see that the addicts are definitely having trouble kicking these products.

  •  The "Infamous" 1984 ad? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Matt Z, Chrislove

    Maybe you're not grasping what "infamous" means.

    It doesn't mean "more than famous"

  •  I stopped giving Apple a pass at...... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    dmegivern, cville townie, JesseCW


    No, iPhone, I do NOT have 1,238 unread emails. And the colors.....they blind!

    If you hate government, don't run for office in that government.

    by Bensdad on Mon Oct 28, 2013 at 11:21:36 AM PDT

  •  It's easy to boycott business that sell (5+ / 0-)

    goods and services that cater to the low-class dreggs of socienty and that aren't up to the high quality that is demanded, like Walmart, Applebees, Papajohns, etc.  However, asking people to boycott the exceptionally elite products that Apple sells is asking too much.

  •  Weird update (5+ / 0-)

    Who do I buy from that's ok again?

    Libertarianism is something that most people grow out of, not unlike, say, hay fever or asthma. Bob Johnson

    by randallt on Mon Oct 28, 2013 at 11:40:02 AM PDT

  •  Al Gore is on the Board. what are you saying? (6+ / 0-)

    and the whole Molex thing is bullsh*t -- they make connectors for EVERYBODY.


    Happy little moron, Lucky little man.
    I wish I was a moron, MY GOD, Perhaps I am!
    —Spike Milligan

    by polecat on Mon Oct 28, 2013 at 11:42:58 AM PDT

  •  The historical problem with the PC, formerly (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cville townie, JesseCW

    known as an IBM compatible, isn't it's hardware. There is no one manufacturer for PCs, the quality varies from vendor to vendor, and according to what the consumer wants to pay. (I've always preferred to build my own.) The problem has been the dominate operating systems - various generations and incarnations of Windows. Microsoft finally started to get it right with Windows 2000 and later XP. Took a step backwards with Vista. Windows 7 rocks. Windows 8 will probably have to be reworked a bit. But I hate to see the PC bashed, for issues of instability and security that are Microsoft related. If you are adventurous, you can forsake windows for various Linux distributions.  

    Just another underemployed IT professional computer geek.

    by RhodeIslandAspie on Mon Oct 28, 2013 at 11:47:06 AM PDT

  •  Apple is famous for not giving to philanthropy. (3+ / 0-)

    They have a horrible track record for supporting charities. After resuming control of Apple in 1997, Jobs eliminated all corporate philanthropy programs. They were a big palyer with the Product Red program but that is not pure, it helps them sell their products ("cause marketing"). Tim Cook has changed a few things since he became CEO, they now match employee contributions. But, all-in-all they are horrible when it comes to philanthropy.

    For a comparison, Microsoft, is fantastic... in 2011 they gave $105,000,000 for grants, $19,395,791 for employee matching gifts and $824,604,209 for in-kind gifts.

    •  Its just business (0+ / 0-)

      This gets brought up at most shareholder meetings.  With Jobs it always came back to what Apple existed for - business.  If individual employees want to give there is nothing to stop them.  If individual shareholders want to give there is nothing to stop them.  But Apple was not going to make decisions with YOUR (Shareholder) money that did not relate to the BUSINESS of Apple.

      It is well that war is so terrible -- lest we should grow too fond of it. Robert E. Lee

      by ksuwildkat on Mon Oct 28, 2013 at 12:15:27 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Smart businesses know... (0+ / 0-)

        ... that participating in philanthropy is good for their bottom line (increased cutomer loyalty) and good for the communities they have locations in. If it's "just business" then corporations in the U.S. in 2012 gave $18.15 billion for the fun of it?

        •  Its "A Way" (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Wee Mama

          So in the case of a business that gives to charity X the business chooses who gets the money and they get the tax benefit of giving the money and they get the "credit" for giving the money.  

          Apple goes a different way - they give you (employee or shareholder) the money and you choose where it goes and you get the tax benefit and you get the credit.  

          Given the ubiquity of scandal with charities over the years, Apple has avoided a LOT of bad PR by going this route.  Think about all the people who gave money to Penn State or worse Second Mile.  They didnt INTEND to support children being abused but that is what happened.  Or Komen Foundation.  Seemed like a pretty good cause until recently.  

          I dont fault companies that decided to have corporate giving but I also agree with the way Apple does things.

          It is well that war is so terrible -- lest we should grow too fond of it. Robert E. Lee

          by ksuwildkat on Mon Oct 28, 2013 at 12:35:54 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Couldn't disagree more. (0+ / 0-)

            If corporations continue to hold so much power over our government they better be doing something good with their profits. This isn't new or special, it is called Corporate Social Responsibility (CSR). They do it because in study after study it is shown that customers will buy your product over another one if they know one company is more supportive of their communities then the other.

            And don't beleive for a second that Apple is giving the employee more because they don't make charitable contributions. That is the lamest excuse I have ever heard.

            •  I would rather they were neutral (0+ / 0-)

              as I pointed out, sometimes those donations dont do what you originally intend.  Boys Scouts is a GREAT organization but they have a pretty critical flaw when in comes to inclusiveness.  The United Way does some wonderful things but their executives are a giant black eye.

              So the math here is simple - Profit is income minus expense.  CSR is an expense.  That money would either a) go to employees b) get reinvested in the business or c) return to shareholders.

              I have heard a lot of bad things about Apple but low pay is not one of them.  

              It is well that war is so terrible -- lest we should grow too fond of it. Robert E. Lee

              by ksuwildkat on Mon Oct 28, 2013 at 01:35:12 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

    •  I do remember, back in the day, that MS calculated (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Wee Mama, earicicle, JesseCW

      their donations of software at full retail value when donating to schools - donations which, not coincidentally, also furthered the spread of the MS empire.

      Take their numbers with a grain of salt.

    •  I found this interesting (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      A few years back some teachers from our school system were asked to attend a computer in the classroom type of workshop. The said workshop was free, set up in a four star hotel, all food included, paid for by the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation.

      The interesting part?  The computers we all used for the workshop were Apple Computers.

  •  PCs are cheaper, (5+ / 0-)

    because there is no one vendor that builds them, so there is plenty of competition. Sometimes, that is a race to the bottom, as companies cut back on quality, and quality control to cut prices, particularly on the low end PCs. They also cut annoying deals with third party vendors to bundle dubious evaluation packages reinstalled on their shipped machines.

    With Macs, you always know what you are getting, but it costs. The PC market is a bit of a jungle, and it's easy to get burned.

    But no matter who the makes your computer, they are going to find to screw Third World workers.  Even if you build your own.

    Just another underemployed IT professional computer geek.

    by RhodeIslandAspie on Mon Oct 28, 2013 at 11:51:54 AM PDT

  •  some serious issues (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    highacidity, Wee Mama, suka

    FULL DISCLOSURE - I am an Apple share holder

    Ok, so first off I dont know where you got "its recurring flaw was the difficulty of designing software for it"

    Software was/is NOT difficult to design.  Quite the opposite.  It was just a lot more profitable to write for 95+% of the market Windows represented.  In fact back in the days of CodeWarrior many apps were written on a Mac, for Mac and then recompiled for Windows.  Today Xcode is the best tool and it is free.

    I hardly find Apple responsible for one of their suppliers being bought up.  Its not like Apple sought out a Koch Brothers company. Yes they can move to a different supplier but it will take time.  For all we know the Koch Brothers might decide they dont want to do business with Liberals!

    As for the tax dodge, as is pointed out its LEGAL.  The issue is fixing the LAW.  Apple already pays a HUGE amount of tax and unlike Dell (and others) has always collected state sales taxes because of their retail presence.

    It always concerns me when people want to do 1:1 comparisons for pay.  Demanding "equal" pay that does not take into account the local economy has dangerous second order impacts.  When I was in Iraq we used to "pay" (tip) our barbers $1 for our free haircuts.  6 heads an hour, 10 hours a day.  Bunch of nice guys.  Until it turned out that we were paying barbers more than University professors.  Heck we were paying them more than the Mister of Education made.  How do you get an educated population when shaving heads earns more than being an engineer?

    It is well that war is so terrible -- lest we should grow too fond of it. Robert E. Lee

    by ksuwildkat on Mon Oct 28, 2013 at 11:56:07 AM PDT

    •  Not a shareholder, but (0+ / 0-)

      MacBook, iPhone, iPod owner and not planning to change.

      "let's talk about that"

      by VClib on Mon Oct 28, 2013 at 12:07:15 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Everything the Koch brothers do is legal too... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      Therefore, we should be supporting them 100%.

      Its not them, its the law. They're just using the law...

      I could easily Godwin this one too... since everything a certain somebody did was also legal under the laws then in place...

      The "its legal and that's enough" argument just doesn't fly most of them, if ever.

      The roaches always win if you turn out the lights.

      by Jyotai on Mon Oct 28, 2013 at 04:04:57 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I hate Apple. Always have. Always will. (0+ / 0-)

    I hate those damn iPhones, iPads, iCrap that flood the market with even more garbage no one needs but is willing to kill to get.

    Apple exploits.  That is why it is successful.

    Tax and Spend I can understand. I can even understand Borrow and Spend. But Borrow and give Billionaires tax cuts? That I have a problem with.

    by LiberalCanuck on Mon Oct 28, 2013 at 11:57:40 AM PDT

    •  So how do you feel about... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Cali Scribe

      Samsung, Sony, Nokia...and just about any other consumer product driven company?  There are many, many more Samsung labeled items floating around this world than Apple.  As many Apple haters like to point out, Apple's share of any given market that it has a product is sometimes still quite small compared to the competition...with the exception of iPad-like devices.  No one has come close to that market penetration for that type of device.

      I went into science for the money and the sex. Imagine my surprise.

      by Mote Dai on Mon Oct 28, 2013 at 12:25:15 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I use OSX because (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Miggles, Wee Mama, suka

    it's quality hardware with unix under the gui. I simply don't understand all the comments above about apple saying 'don't worry your little head' and making decisions for me. Sure, it offers an easy to use gui that even my grandma has no problem understanding but it's still unix under that hood. That, in itself, makes osx as customizable an os as any other available today.

    Including gnu/linux. Every tool that's available there is available on osx. Every one. Except for the fragile and/or limited guis.

    •  That's actually not true (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      X11 on OS X, to run graphical (GUI) apps from Linux on OS X, is piss-poor, and it's not for want of volunteers trying to make it better. Talk to anyone who's tried to run Gimp or OpenOffice without a specific port. Things don't talk to each other properly, you have to click twice rather than once to focus a toolbar or some such.

      Most people don't bother and just run native OS X apps, but it's not always because the Linux apps are worse. Unfortunately, this gives the Linux apps an undeservedly bad reputation — the free software alternatives to things like Photoshop are usually a bit behind the curve, but their usability is underrated because a lot of people try them on OS X and assume it doesn't get better than that.

      Command-line apps from Linux work fine on OS X. Graphical apps, not so much.

      •  I'm well aware of the limitations (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        cville townie

        of x11 and gnome 2.x apps on osx. That's more a limitation of x11, really. I also understand why apple hasn't gone out of its way to integrate x11 - its time is better spent on its own gui. Even the gnuish folk have pretty much said x11 is a dead end and are working on wayland. Ironically, from what I've been able to pick up wayland will off backwards compatibility to X11 apps using techniques similar to those osx uses. Might even have the same double click issues :)

        I came to apple via linux. I used debian unstable as my only os for the first half of the last decade, then switched to ubuntu shortly after warty warthog came out. At one point in my life I was the most prolific op on #ubuntu, even :) The reason I switched to apple was I had to be able to use the adobe suite. I had a choice between windows and apple, and went with apple because of it's unix underpinnings, fink and macports. I don't think I'll be leaving because of certain mac only apps that have insinuated themselves into my life, like devonthink and omnifocus. Not to mention the trackpad.

        47 is the new 51!

        by nickrud on Mon Oct 28, 2013 at 12:51:08 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  I should probably add (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        cville townie

        that even though I've got the latest adobe publisher suite I still open stuff in gimp weekly. It may not have all the bells and whistles but those years of using it developed work habits that won't adapt to photoshop.

        47 is the new 51!

        by nickrud on Mon Oct 28, 2013 at 01:29:09 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  late reply, you might not see this cville (0+ / 0-)

        but I should mention that one of the reasons I've been able to stick with apple is my employer pays for nearly all of the software I use.

        If I had to pay for my software? I'd go back to paying with my time on #ubuntu.

        47 is the new 51!

        by nickrud on Mon Oct 28, 2013 at 08:27:40 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  This is why corporations by definition are amoral (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    zett, Cali Scribe

    And Apple is a corporation, hence it is amoral. People who work there are lovely no doubt, but collectively this 'entity' known as a corporation has about as much a sense of morality as my car.
       This doesn't mean I boycott my car, but it does mean I don't tie my moral behavior to it. So as with corporations: expecting them to develope any sense of 'morality' is silly; we need progressive government and well written laws and regulations to do that. Hell, even Calvin Coolidge understood that

    An empty head is not really empty; it is stuffed with rubbish. Hence the difficulty of forcing anything into an empty head. -- Eric Hoffer

    by MichiganChet on Mon Oct 28, 2013 at 12:15:04 PM PDT

  •  Left unsaid (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bsegel, earicicle

    Foxconn builds more than iPhones - it is a major supplier for most electronics companies, as is Pegatron. It would be very difficult (perhaps impossible) to buy any electronic device whose components were all manufactured and assembled in fair labour environments. This doesn't mean "everyone does it" is an excuse, but quite honestly it means that you have to evaluate each company and each component manufacturer at a much deeper level to determine what will satisfy your standards.  

    This brings me to the next point. Also unstated is the fact that Apple is the first and only tech company to belong to the Fair Labour Association. This doesn't magically make anything better, but -- again -- you'd be hard pressed to find another tech company making transparent efforts to improve labour conditions.  I for one am glad that Apple is given a lot of scrutiny and that this pressure has caused it to make at least some efforts to change the conditions under which its products are assembled.  It makes me feel better about my new iPhone and the Macbook Pro I'm typing this on.  I don't doubt Apple could do better, but I think a lot of its competitors (who don't get nearly the same light shone on them) do significantly worse.

    Third, Apple is starting to bring manufacturing of its products back to North America.  The new Mac Pro will be assembled in California, and many of its components will be made in the USA.  Apple claims that it will make use of companies in "Texas, Florida, Illinois, Kentucky and over a dozen other states across America," []. This will be an expensive computer (starting at US $2999) but it is designed for professional users and one hopes that, if it is successful, then more products will be made locally.  That sounds like a reason to buy this computer if it fits your needs, not to boycott it.

    As many other people here have noted, Molex is a massive manufacturer of electronic connectors and is ubiquitous in electronic devices.  It's really disappointing that this will mean that buying many such devices will result in some revenue going to a Koch-owned company, but you can't single out Apple and exhort liberals to spend their money elsewhere when there's no indication of what would satisfy your criteria.  You simply haven't done the homework to say what people should be buying instead.  I'd be surprised if any computing device you can buy off a shelf today wasn't made by companies guilty of most if not all of the same sins.

    If the key objection is that liberals are giving Apple a "pass," I would say that if anything Apple gets far more heat from liberals, watchdogs, and regulators in the USA and abroad because of its size and prominence.  As it should.  We should hold the company to high standards as consumers, as shareholders, and as citizens.  As we should for EVERY corporation, especially any corporation with a global reach.  Because of this, it's no solution at all to simply blame and shame people who use Apple devices as hipster liberals who won't change their habits. A lot of people enjoy these products -- people who work and create and play and communicate using them, and who support the many developers both big and small creating great software for them.  And I feel an opportunity has been wasted to highlight the larger harms that our reliance on offshore manufacturing accrue, especially in technology,  and (ironically) on the electronics companies competing with Apple who get a "pass" simply for being "not Apple."

    "The law, in its majestic equality, forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal their bread." -- Anatole France

    by coffeego on Mon Oct 28, 2013 at 12:18:37 PM PDT

  •  This looked like an interesting and (9+ / 0-)

    provocative diary, but the snide update and then some pretty ugly comments later on by the diarist have prevented me from applying any tip/rec.

    I love and own Apple products, as well as AAPL stock itself.  While I am convinced that Apple brings products of superior design and quality to market, I am also of the opinion that they can do far better as far as corporate citizenship is concerned.  Given their size and dominance, they are in the perfect position to take the lead on many issues such as factory workplace quality of life, the environment, and not doing business with bad actors.

  •  Mac Pro assembled in the US (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    earicicle, suka

    So...Apple will be assembling hardware in the US.  Some of the Mac Pro line will be assembled here.  So, they are hiring US workers now.

    But as for some special "affinity" for liberals...not sure I follow that.  The Mac is used heavily in the academic research world and used for many scientific applications (take a walk through many university research labs and you will see a majority of Macs around).

    I went into science for the money and the sex. Imagine my surprise.

    by Mote Dai on Mon Oct 28, 2013 at 12:21:41 PM PDT

  •  I don't buy Apple products. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Overpriced and too expensive. I'll keep using my 2008 Acer running Win Vista until the smoke comes out.

  •  Molex? You are clueless (6+ / 0-)

    Do you have the slightest freakin' idea what you're talking about?  Molex manufactures components (mostly cables and connectors) which find their way into virtually every computer or device on the market.  To single out Apple is like singling out Ford for making cars that roll on tires!

    As for the overseas production, yeah, it sucks.  It's evil.  It's how every computer and device on the market are produce.  Oh except the new Mac Pro, from Apple, which will be produced in the US.

    I think it's rather silly to single out Apple for worker abuses when they are the one tech manufacturer that has taken a step towards returning production to America.  Why don't we give Apple some credit for returning at least a bit of production to the US, and push other companies to follow?  How about pushing Apple to bring more production back to the US once they've optimized Mac Pro production?  

    Did you even know that Apple are now building an entire computer line in the US?  Or are you so juiced on your liberal scold spree that you didn't bother to think about it?

    Disclaimer:  I'm an Apple user since the 80s, but also have Dell products (monitors) and a few non-Apple tablets.  On Mac forums I'm usually the bomb thrower excorciating Apple's product decisions for their lack of environmental awareness.  Non-upgradable computers are terrible for the environment, and Apple is the biggest offender on this.  Now that the new Mac Pro has been neutered into a sealed box, this is the only upgrade kit you can get for a Mac:

    Mac Upgrade Kit photo macupgradekit_zps4a23699f.jpg

    Apple's fetish for thinner and non-upgradable/expandable is their soft underbelly.  These other things you bring up, they are criticisms of the entire tech industry, and when you single out one company, you miss the forest for the trees.  

    "When I was an alien, cultures weren't opinions" ~ Kurt Cobain, Territorial Pissings

    by Subterranean on Mon Oct 28, 2013 at 12:33:53 PM PDT

    •  The emotional attachment to a corporation (0+ / 0-)

      is frankly...weird.

      You're acting like someone kicked your dog.

      "But the traitors will pretend / that it's gettin' near the end / when it's beginning" P. Ochs

      by JesseCW on Mon Oct 28, 2013 at 04:44:51 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  You can call it weird, but it exists and is (0+ / 0-)

        extremely widespread and is nothing new.  There have been Apple vs Microsoft holy wars going on since the days of USENET, and looking at comments here people are just as dug in now as ever with their blind love or insane hatred of all things Apple.

  •  What the fuck kind of Dick Update is that? (11+ / 0-)
    11:27 AM PT: Based on the comments, there were clearly a lot of liberals who squirmed when their principles were put to the test.
    I assure you, you will need to make a hell of much stronger argument to "put my principles to the test".  This reason people are shitting on it is because the diary is a fucking joke, not because you have adeptly caused us to question our moral compass.

    Try again.  Fail again.  Fail better next time.

    Красота спасет мир --F. Dostoevsky

    by Wisper on Mon Oct 28, 2013 at 12:37:36 PM PDT

    •  No kidding (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      VClib, earicicle

      So which company are we supposed to use to buy computers and electronics?  None?  Are they all so evil we cannot use their products?  I didn't "squirm" at all.  This diarist lives in a dream world in which there are "good" and "evil" choices for every product.  

      I went into science for the money and the sex. Imagine my surprise.

      by Mote Dai on Mon Oct 28, 2013 at 01:13:25 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I've never owned an Apple product (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    ... and I really get tired of a cult surrounding ANY company.

  •  Liberals support Apple? (0+ / 0-)

    I thought the Apple fanatics tended more towards libertarianism.

    I support Apple for one thing only - it isn't Microsoft.

    I junked my last two Windows machines after the operating systems got so corrupted that I couldn't fix them after tens of hours of trying.

    My Macbook has been mostly running without software problems for almost four years (although I have had hardware repairs). I think it may have been worth the extra money it cost. That is the entire extent of my "support" for Apple.

    •  Liberals like Apple more. But when it comes to (0+ / 0-)

      iOs devices such as the iPhone and iPad, everyone buys them.  Like 250 million iPhones and 170 million iPads have been sold since inception.  They are that good that even wingnuts are willing to give them a try.

      Finally, I'd say look at the political activities of Apple employees.  You can see online how they have donated to  various political campaigns, and they fall very much on the liberal side.  Apple has also long led in the area of benefits for same sex partners.  Apple is not perfect, but overall they definitely fall on the less evil side in overall behavior.

  •  Apple sucks (0+ / 0-)

    You never get a second chance to make a first impression, remember that.

    Steve Jobs apparently didn't.

    I met him and presumably was to interview him for a piece on "A Bug's Life" and Pixar.

    He showed.  He was a dick of a major order.

    I've bought just one Apple product since then - for my son and he begged for it.

    I keep waiting for them to fail - again.

    When I do good, I feel good. When I do bad, I feel bad. That is my religion. - Abraham Lincoln

    by EntrWriter on Mon Oct 28, 2013 at 01:03:09 PM PDT

  •  So what am I supposed to buy (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    coffeego, Miggles

    if I'm a good liberal? I always love it when Kossacks tell me how I should shop based on their values. Please, instruct me.

    I've never given Apple a "pass," nor do I know anybody else who has. I question your assertion that liberals are Apple "supporters." There may be data that suggest that Apple purchasers trend liberal, but that doesn't mean those same people think everything Apple does is peachy. I've never in my life thought of Apple as "liberal." They're a fucking corporation. So I question the premise of this entire diary.

    I buy Apple because I like their product. If you think that's unprincipled and that I'm a bad liberal, well, I can't say that I give much of a shit.

    Hopefully this diary made you feel better, at least.

    I don't mind if you're straight. Just don't flaunt it in public.

    by Chrislove on Mon Oct 28, 2013 at 03:00:32 PM PDT

  •  One area where my semi-conservative brother... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    LordMike, JesseCW

    Has a point.

    Apple = bad.
    Microsoft = not so bad.

    We've both been long time Apple supporters, but lets face it, Steve Jobs was a Corp monster of a person through and through.

    Bill Gates? A geek - with the socio-political-ethical lack of sense of a geek. Until he seems to have woken up (got married) and become a champion of doing good for no reason (legacy).

    I know Bill Gates doesn't run Microsoft anymore, and that MS execs have even said "wouldn't it be nice if he would leave altogether." But he is around, and if you support his creature some of that will end up into his foundation.

    Support Apple and it ALL goes towards a beast that is exploiting in Asia, anti-competative, lawsuit happy, devouring up the Silicon Valley, overpriced and overcontrolled (app store/itunes or GTFO), and not exactly friendly in its retail outlets.

    I love my Apple products, I love OSX... But I'm thinking my next computer will be a Windows machine.
    - I will be able to get a computer made by one company, with software made by many others, and an OS made by a guy who is bankrolling modern philanthropy.

    And Apple didn't make the iPod... they copied it. MP3 players were out for a couple of years first. Same thing with the iPad and tablets - but that hasn't stopped them from suing everyone else...

    Much as I love my Mac, I've grown to detest the company making it...

    The roaches always win if you turn out the lights.

    by Jyotai on Mon Oct 28, 2013 at 03:56:57 PM PDT

    •  Oops... left off part of that... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      My semi-conservative brother...

      When I spoke to him recently and he revealed finally buying a PC after being Mac only for his entire family for many many years...

      He just told me, he'd been looking at the Gate's Foundation, and then reading up on Steve Jobs... and that called it for him...
      - as a Christian who's not "yet" bought into the evangelical "hate everybody" side... He started feeling uncomfortable supporting the company using near slave labor... especially when the other company's founder has shaped up the way Gates has...

      (I say not yet because sometimes when I send him a link to something on DailyKos, he'll send back some talk radio guy or read back some Fox-like talking points, as he lives in a Red State, so I wonder how long until I've lost him to the dark side).

      The roaches always win if you turn out the lights.

      by Jyotai on Mon Oct 28, 2013 at 04:10:25 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  The Gates Foundation isn't all mosquito nets. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      But he is around, and if you support his creature some of that will end up into his foundation.
      ...much of which will go to his foundation's quest to undermine public education and teachers' unions, because Bill Gates thinks he knows better than the professional educators who have been actually working in education for years.

      So... yay?

      "When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." --Dom Helder Camara, archbishop of Recife

      by JamesGG on Tue Oct 29, 2013 at 05:18:09 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Good point... (0+ / 0-)

        But it still on balance becomes a choice between support a company that only does harm (Apple), or one that balances global good with local harm (Gates) - with the concession that Gates is no longer directly MS.

        The third option... Androiding it all, is frankly just as bad as Apple but in different ways...

        And the fourth option, Linux, is just not mainstream viable. Like telling people looking to buy a car to go make one...

        The roaches always win if you turn out the lights.

        by Jyotai on Tue Oct 29, 2013 at 10:31:12 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  I have to wonder what would happen... (0+ / 0-)

    ...if Koch Industries were to buy up a wind turbine manufacturer, or a photovoltaic plant?

  •  Why constrain it to "Liberals"? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Can't we suggest "all decent human beings" stop giving Apple a pass'?  I'd say most (real?) liberals don't give Apple a pass.

    I use Apple products, because they are better for making music than anything else.  And they are virtually virus and malware-free.  I'm not a fan of Apple, the corporation.  But Microsoft, Google and the rest are just as bad or worse.  Birds of a feather.  

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