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I'm a progressive, old lesbian from Birmingham, Alabama. Yes, the conservatism in Alabama is enough to make a progressive, old lesbian mad as hell--so mad in fact that I left in the 80s. But I plan to return in a few years once I retire. And I'll live smack dab in the reddest rural region, surrounded by beautiful mountains, good (if ideologically-addled) family, and damned good food that will shorten but sweeten my life.

Like many progressive Southerners, I am deeply conflicted about my home region, its history and its politics and its pernicious brand of religion that in no way resembles the Christianity of my grandmother, who was a saint on a mountaintop during the Depression, raising nine kids on what she could scratch out of the land and giving whatever she could to people who had even less. But that's another diary.

But while I acknowledge the flaws, I get really really really pissed off when I encounter negative stereotypes of the South. Just like I get really really really pissed off at stereotypes about ANY people because stereotypes are ignorant.

They are also politically stupid for Democrats and progressives. If you want to turn some Southern states blue, you can. Yes, you can. You need to engage and energize the large numbers of Southerners who don't vote because they figure what's the point?

You don't engage and energize by snickering at those dumb hillbilly Southerners with their dumb hillbilly accents. Oddly enough, Southerners don't like to be made fun of and will be less likely to hear what you have to say if you do.

And why bother to reach out to the Deep South at all?

Here:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...

Notice that a "gay" couple can hold hands and walk down the street in Mississippi and Alabama without drawing fire. Notice that they fail to outrage folks at a livestock exhibition. Notice that one can loudly propose to the other in a Waffle House without causing mayhem. In fact, in both Waffle House scenarios, the marriage proposal is greeted with a smattering of applause.

Pretty cool.

Next time someone around you bashes Southerners for their bigotry, please remind them that it is bigotry itself to assume the absolute worst about a group. And that's no way to make progressive inroads in the South.

Originally posted to cassandraX on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 06:26 AM PDT.

Also republished by Southern Action.

Poll

Southerners are ALL just dumb bigots

8%29 votes
50%169 votes
9%32 votes
31%108 votes

| 338 votes | Vote | Results

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Comment Preferences

  •  Tip Jar (115+ / 0-)

    "This is a center-left country. Democrats can act that way and win. In fact, they must." -- Markos

    by cassandraX on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 06:26:12 AM PDT

    •  LOL (9+ / 0-)

      "This is a center-left country. Democrats can act that way and win. In fact, they must." -- Markos

      by cassandraX on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 06:32:31 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  These HRs aren't an argument, they're censorship. (4+ / 0-)

        Why have three kossacks dropped HRs here, but none of them bothered to comment explaining their reasoning?

        OK, kossacks don't like the word "retarded" - even when used here to make an obviously satirical point, quoting a phrase thousands of people from Boston use regularly.

        Brawnstud has been a kossack for two years, comments rarely, and may never even have seen that we get all het up about this word. If you HRers want to improve the conversation and community at Daily Kos, you might start by explaining that "retarded" is Verboten - instead of saying nothing, and just dropping a drive-by HR.

        Really, Wee Mama: Was this HR true, and kind, and necessary?

        "Every man has a right to utter what he thinks truth" Samuel Johnson

        by Brecht on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 09:56:32 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  It's not just here. (0+ / 0-)

          The fact that everyone in Boston uses it all the time doesn't make it right. And an HR is not the end of the world! Geez!

          You're gonna need a bigger boat.

          by Debby on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 10:44:00 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  You appear to have entirely missed my point (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            The Knute, CaliSista, poco

            Brawnstud has been a kossack for two years, and was never HRed until today.

            How much good is achieved by trying to hide someone's comment, without even explaining why?

            If someone is stepping beyond Daily Kos's guidelines, the first and most helpful thing to do is, explain those guidelines and the reasoning behind them. We give kossacks in good standing the benefit of the doubt, we assume that they want to be part of this community, and that they have a learning curve.

            If their reaction is to get all belligerent, or if they persist in dropping "retards" into their comments after they know we don't like it, then it's reasonable to HR them.

            On the other hand, HRing someone straight out of the gate, without even an explanation for your HR, is likely to both hurt and confuse a kossack who just didn't know better.

            "Every man has a right to utter what he thinks truth" Samuel Johnson

            by Brecht on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 11:03:47 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I don't know Brawnstud. (0+ / 0-)

              Why am I supposed to research someone's rude remark? And it's kind of the norm (or at least it used to be) to learn the culture of a site before barging in and commenting. It could be assumed that someone at 300-some K would know what the hell goes on at a site.

              You're gonna need a bigger boat.

              by Debby on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 06:51:23 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  So you think we should HR without commenting? (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                poco

                Because discussing things and explaining your HRs is a lot more central to how things work at Daily Kos, than knowing not to say "retard" is.

                "Every man has a right to utter what he thinks truth" Samuel Johnson

                by Brecht on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 07:16:12 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  When I HR, (0+ / 0-)

                  it usually gives me great satisfaction to explain but if someone thinks it's self-evident, why should they add to the noise? One could assume that he's been here two years, he might know a little of the custom. Why doesn't he? For that matter, as I said, this is not solely a dKos matter; the "Spread the Word to End the Word" campaign crosses multiple mediums and has been around a number of years. As it stands, Brawnstud has now been rewarded for his slur so hip-hip-hurray!

                  And I'm done talking about it. This diary doesn't need a pile of off-topic posts at its top.

                  You're gonna need a bigger boat.

                  by Debby on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 09:34:48 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

        •  Though I agree with the intent of the HRs, (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Brecht, highacidity

          I've thought about your point and am reluctantly uprating. It was a Bahstun accent thing with no direct intention to demean.

          But it would be a good habit for Brawnstud to drop.

          On the whole, this is a great example of why I wish the site allowed comment editing. Sometimes you say things you later realize weren't worth saying.

          I live under the bridge to the 21st Century.

          by Crashing Vor on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 01:15:38 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Yes, I hope Brawnstud learns from our conversation (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Crashing Vor, highacidity

            We're stuck with comment editing in real time, where kossacks are accountable for their foolish blurts, and can only mitigate them by adding a later comment, explaining their intention or apologizing for their error.

            I don't always enjoy this, but it has trained me to be more thoughtful before posting comments. Most of the time.

            "Every man has a right to utter what he thinks truth" Samuel Johnson

            by Brecht on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 01:26:55 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  Or the nasal Chicaaaago accent (7+ / 0-)
    •  True true. N/t (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Texknight, Crashing Vor

      "I'm not left wing because i'm ideological, or passionate, or angry. I'm left wing because I'm informed." - Mikesco

      by newfie on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 09:07:29 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Then there's my state.... (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Crashing Vor, kyril, Calamity Jean

      Duuuuuuuude!!!!!

      Like..You Know...Fer Shure

      People make fun of Californians, but mostly it's young white middle class who have a dialect, which they lose when they want to, you know, get a job.

      Making fun of the inner city dialects or our recent immigrants from the south is too overtly racist, and most adults speak "Hollywood English".  So we get a bit of a pass.

  •  it isnt the accents i make fum of (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    GAS, greblos, Brecht

    it is the willful hatred of modern times.

    and no i am not from the north or the south- i am from CA . now i live in NC and there are lots of different views of politics here and there is an "accent", it is the thinking that the old times were really the good times that makes me sick.

    yeah there are some sho look back on slavery, sexism,  rampant polio, old age comforts and needs provided by the whims of families, kids working in the fields instead of working on their homework. yep the good old days.......

    •  no argument from me that SOME do all that (25+ / 0-)

      And those attitudes should be confronted or at the very least not countenanced. Absolutely. They are abhorrent. I've encountered similar abhorrent attitudes up here north of the Mason Dixon Line where I've lived for many years now.

      But if you think ALL Southerners feel this way, and therefore it's cool mock all things Southern, then, well....we disagree.

      "This is a center-left country. Democrats can act that way and win. In fact, they must." -- Markos

      by cassandraX on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 07:27:23 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  agreed. they don't all feel that way (6+ / 0-)
      •  Agreed. But... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        cassandraX

        Having lived in Mississippi and Alabama all my 50 years, you can bet that those attitudes are alive and well, and in some "pockets" of the South, thriving. These are the evangelical "Christians" who voted for a Mormon over a black man.

        I am Caucasian, rural, drive a truck, and I like fishing and hunting. Therefore, I can "blend" with the God-and-gun-grabbing majority here if they don't know me well. And I hear and see some really stupid, bigoted behavior. Then again, I hang out with other liberal-minded folks of all races (I'm near a college town), so yes, we're here. But we are most definitely a minority down here. And I, for one, do not trust that the majority of my fellow Alabama citizens can think for themselves and vote in their best interests. Over time, I have witnessed the dumbing down of the average Southern white male (and female alike), and much of it intentionally. Back in the day, parents wanted their kids to be educated and to learn HOW to think, not WHAT to think. That is rare in the South nowadays.

    •  It can happen in blue states too (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      sacrelicious

      We chose not to go with one contractor after he used some racist dog whistles to see if we were "his kind" of people.   We've got hardcore secessionists in one or two of our northern counties, a thread of the Bible Belt along the I-5 corridor and various wealthy deep-R enclaves.

      Most of them believe our state is crazy and things used to be a lot better, even though most of what was better in this state in the past (such as really good public education) was killed by right-wing politicians and the Initiative system where a combination of anti-tax direct democracy with "all babies must eat" bond issues has crippled our finances.

  •  I meant to add that I used to hold my girlfriends' (43+ / 0-)

    hands in broad daylight walking down the street in Birmingham, Alabama. Granted, it was the more liberal neighborhood, close to UAB. But it was Birmingham--in the late 1970s.

    There were also at least FOUR gay bars in Birmingham in those day. Big ones. And there was a women's music production company that I was part of.....

    It's just so important that people remind themselves that there ARE progressive Southerners. Treating Southerners in general with derision only cements their ties to the GOP, where they feel welcomed, not ridiculed. Unfortunately, the GOP also inflames some of the less-liberal sentiments embedded in Southern culture.

    But there really are Southerners, even in my native Deep South, who are progressives. I have a feisty cousin who lights up Facebook constantly by mocking the GOP--and he's a welder in rural Alabama.

    "This is a center-left country. Democrats can act that way and win. In fact, they must." -- Markos

    by cassandraX on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 06:39:56 AM PDT

  •  So what's your beef? (6+ / 0-)

    The Daily Show video worked to show that the stereotypes were, at least anecdotally, wrong.

    I'd think you'd be happy to see them working to disprove such stereotypes.

  •  I'm a progressive old straight lady in B'ham (17+ / 0-)

    Nice to meet 'ya! I am a transplant (military brat by raising and Facebook STILL doesn't let you put that as a hometown!) in Alabama since 1973. Moved to Birmingham in 1981 and now live in the 'burbs where people tell me only in whispers that they like my Obama bumper sticker.

    I hope you'll come back - the weather is nice, the food is, as you said, FABULOUS and the average Joe and Jane are MUCH nicer than our elected officials would indicate.

    Roll down the window and let the wind blow back your hair.

    by Lisa in Bama on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 06:43:57 AM PDT

    •  :) I visit often (10+ / 0-)

      I'm still close to family, so I come down at least twice a year to see everyone.

      And I will retire there. The wingnuts will bug me, but they bug me in Pennsylvania, too. At least the barbecue is better down home. And you can't beat sitting on the porch with your cousins when you're old and tired.

      "This is a center-left country. Democrats can act that way and win. In fact, they must." -- Markos

      by cassandraX on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 07:42:25 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Between bouts of organizing and long-term (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        countrycat, Charles Hall, cassandraX

        social transformation, of course.  :)  

        Thanks for your diary.  What you say is true.  There are progressives in the South, and there are also a lot of people who just don't vote because they don't believe it will make any difference.

        The Democratic party needs to engage those people, take their actual needs seriously, build multicultural coalitions, and win in a significant number of southern states.

        We need the sweeping stereotypes out of the way in order to do that.  Which doesn't mean denying the presence of organized malignant racism, neo-confederates, the war on women, Young Earth Creationists, or any of that stuff.  It just means understanding there's more to the South than that, and not assuming all whites in the region are the same.  Dropping the derisive labels (redneck, hillbilly, ignorant hick, etc) would help.

        We need more posts by southern progressives to give Kossacks more of a sense of the complexity of the region.  We're starting to get that from Texan Kossacks (Yay!), and more would be good, so if you're moved to write again, go for it.

        --------------------- “These are troubling times. Corporation are treated like people. People are treated like things. …And if we ever needed to vote, we sure do need to vote now.” -- Rev. Dr. William J. Barber

        by Fiona West on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 10:00:52 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  I disagree (0+ / 0-)

    There may be progressives in parts of the South -- no, I'll go as far as to say that there are.  That's no more relevant then the "My grandfather freed his slaves!" was.  (Did you know that there was a thriving abolitionist movement in the South?  There was.)  Over time during the buildup to the eventual Confederate Treason, the abolitionists were first marginalized, then either silenced or driven out.

    The South and its local satraps are doing that again, this time to their progressive minorities.  Yes, there are still progressives there.  No, you aren't relevant; you're not going to turn any votes from red to blue.  If your states will go blue, drawing back from the precipice this time, it will be because the white vote becomes a small enough fraction of the cast vote that democrats win.

    I'm sorry that the stereotypes are offensive to you.  That's not something I worry about, as my goal is to make the satraps look ridiculous enough that folks in the intentionally marginalized voting blocs laugh at them and come out to kick some backwoods redneck butt at the ballot box.

  •  Statistics (13+ / 0-)

    isn't stereotyping, it is a snapshot in time, it can accurately describe what people are saying or doing at that moment, it becomes less accurate when used for predictions into the future, but so is just about any form of prognostication.

    What Nate Silver's numbers say, is that current public approval for marriage equality is lowest in the state of Alabama and Mississippi, and using current rates of change in opinion based on the recent past, they would be the two last states to reach a point where the majority approve of marriage equality.  The numbers aren't lying, but the assumptions about the rate of change could be wrong, and of course, with most things, the errors come about when the researcher or others try to read more into the numbers than is there.

    I live in the South, have for the majority of my life and still live here.  Southerners by and large, though not all, tend to be friendly and polite in public,  more congenial when greeting people, and likely to keep negative expressions to a minimum in a public place.   But that doesn't predict their voting behavior.   There is frequently a fairly large disparity between the public face and the private thoughts of many southern bigots.  That applies to race as well as sexual orientation.

    I too love many aspects of living in the south, don't want to leave.  But I can recognize the warts as well as the good things.  No place in America is free of prejudice.  But conservative politics and religion, which is a large part of life down here,  combine to make many non-urban areas 'behind the times' on social issues.  Younger people are going to make a difference,  but I wouldn't be suprised if Nate's projections don't turn out to be relatively accurate on the numbers.

    •  Thought I acknowledged the warts...oh well (17+ / 0-)

      Not questioning Silver's numbers. Not questioning the reality that the Deep South is a very red region.

      Am questioning the wisdom of stereotyping Southerners.

      I think it's foolish politically.

      Plus those who do it are no better than the teabaggers they deride for their sweeping condemnations of "illegals" or "muslims."

      When people resort to demonizing all members of a group, their logic has failed. And yes, I know I just demonized "teabaggers." :) But that's an ideology. It's a set of beliefs and values and it reasonable to condemn it wholesale.

      What irks me is the assumption I bump into here that all Southerners are bigoted, ignorant rednecks and thus fair game for mocking.

      Not true. And, in my opinion, it's counterproductive to the cause of progressivism to engage in it.

      "This is a center-left country. Democrats can act that way and win. In fact, they must." -- Markos

      by cassandraX on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 07:23:30 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I've run into the assumption (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        kyril

        that all southerners are ignorant, etc several times, it does irk.

        But I think the entire attack on Nate Silver's numbers, and the video as an attempt to refute it (not your attempt, but the makers of the video) missed the point.  Because demographic statistical discussions add much needed factual information to discussions about behavior by region, gender, religion, etc.  It is aggregated information, it does not predict the behavior of any one individual, but it does describe 'group' behavior pretty well.  Like Teabaggers.   If you don't think like a Teabagger, you probably aren't a Teabagger, so don't get upset if someone ascribes a commonly held belief to Teabaggers which they in fact hold.

        So, no, I don't believe insulting people helps bring them over to your cause.  I think we should avoid stereotyping.  But if someone is using opinion polls and voting demographics to predict probable behaviors, I wouldn't call it stereotyping or insulting someone.  I think that I can say a typical rural voting county near me does x,y and z, and that isn't stereotyping.  Furthermore,  this style of communication isn't formal academic work, it isn't a carefully considered essay for publication, etc.  Its a little blurb on a blog.   And so, I really don't expect people to say,  this applies to the 75% of people in the 95 red voting counties in Georgia outside major urban centers who are unreconstructed neo-confederate bigots.   And I think it is absurd to try to act like most people are lumping the progressives who happen to live in the south, but because of population distributions, etc., are barely visible outside of a few urban centers when they make a comment about the south.

        In the words of a famous horsemen when discussing what people do, who would hear much the same defensive statements,  "If the shoe fits, wear it, and if it doesn't, I wasn't talking to you anyhow".

        I personally don't feel that southern progressives are being driven away from the site because of comments about southern behaviors (which are factual for a majority of the population in many cases).  If southern progressives were that thin skinned, they wouldn't survive talking to their neighbors and co-workers let alone this blog.

        •  That last paragraph ... (0+ / 0-)

          ... you do realize you're essentially saying "They get kicked all the time anyway, so it's okay if we kick 'em too because obviously they can take it"?

          •  that is how you read it (0+ / 0-)

            I think it was more a practical acknowledgement that we southern progressives have the common sense and strength of purpose to know when it is 'us' someone is talking about, the next to the last paragraph as I know you didn't want to pick on something out of context,  and the sense to recognize people saying stupid things when we hear it, and we can ignore it and go on.

            I did not advocate ignoring the existence of and speaking to southern progressives.   I pointed out that blogs like this one aren't going to be perfect mediums for expression of sophisticated nuances and that any one that wants to participate needs to appreciate what is meant and that all generalizations are to some degree untrue and not take things so personally.

            If you come to a political blog looking to get offended, some one will oblige.  There's the best of all things and the way things generally happen.  This place is supposed to be reality based.  Even about itself.

            And I am one of the "them" as well as the "we" of DKos and I am not feeling persecuted at this blog.  Maybe I just have no sense of when I am not welcome, is that what you are saying?

            •  It's fine if that works for you (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Charles Hall

              but I have never been able to put much stock in the "if the shoe doesn't fit, I didn't mean you / don't take things so personally / grow a thicker skin" approach.

              •  with respect to personal insults (0+ / 0-)

                clear ad hominem attacks,  pejorative statements without basis in fact, I would agree.

                To say, southerners are more likely to be less educated, high school drop outs, be conservatives who are fearful, easily influenced by that fear to act against their best economic interests, to be religious, especially right wing conservative evangelical or fundamentalists and socially conservative to the point of demonizing gay lifestyles, etc., etc.   That is in fact all demonstrable by demographic evidence.    The only beef I can see is that some people here don't always remember to use a qualifier such as 'are more likely',  'in larger percentages than the national population', 'greater than average chance', 'of course there are good progressive southern democrats and I don't meant them' etc., when  the intent of their statement, to criticize the majority demographic behavior of the Republican/tea party bloc, and not the exceptions to the rule,  and that an even tinier percentage of that some people here actually really think all southerners can't read, don't wash, all run around with pick up trucks with rebel flags and gun racks, and their family trees have no branches,  etc. and are unaware that some people do vote for Democrats and progressives.

                A tiny percentage of all groups are jerks,  even at Dkos.  To claim the site is unwelcoming, turning off southern progressives, I want some real evidence, not that video.

        •  I think that presentation is important (3+ / 0-)

          in these cases. I think that it is safe to say that most Southern progressives have no problems at all with criticisms of political movements like the Tea Party. Unfortunately such criticisms are leveled at all "Southerners" in an expansive way. Also there is plenty of straight-forward anti-Southern prejudice on this site. I think that it alienates many Southern progressives, which should be the last thing that we want to do.

  •  It Was a Dumb Story (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Joe Bob, nosleep4u, Matt Z, Eric K, kyril

    It isn't a "Stereotype" that only 32% of the people in Alabama support same-sex marriage.  It's a statistic:

    http://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/...

    Like Nate Silver said in the story, obviously a certain percentage of the people that live in those states support gay marriage... the fact that The Daily Show was able to find some of them doesn't make the place any less backward.

    I was kind of shocked to see it on TDS... the whole "We were able to find an exception, so therefore the rule isn't true" type of journalism is something Stewart mocks on a fairly regular basis.

    •  Right, I'm not arguing with statistics (8+ / 0-)

      Nor am I arguing that Southerners support gay marriage.

      I'm arguing that not ALL Southerners are right-wing bigots.

      And I'm giving up after this. Apparently I failed to make my point, and I have work to do.

      Should have just kept my mouth shut.

      "This is a center-left country. Democrats can act that way and win. In fact, they must." -- Markos

      by cassandraX on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 07:34:57 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Agreed - It's Not All Of Them (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        kyril

        It's only about 68%.

      •  You didn't fail to make your point, (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        cassandraX, Charles Hall, highacidity

        at least with me and many others who have read the diary and support what it says, not all of whom took the trouble to "rec" your diary.

        I've realized through my many years, especially since joining dKos, that opinions expressed that threaten or even call to people to take a look at their own actions are likely to generate a certain amount of pushback.  In this way, people are people.  Calling for someone to re-examine his/her past actions -- or thinking -- and possibly realize, and even more difficult, ADMIT -- that such thinking was wrong, especially in a more enlightened present, calls for behavior that inherently creates discomfort... and many if not most folks simply would rather not go there.

        I believe a fundamental part of owning a "liberal" philosophy includes the quality of being open-minded, which includes willingness to examine past beliefs and own them and realize they may have been wrong.  Asking those folks to make such examinations public is something of a further reach... altho I've seen plenty of such soul-bearing statements here.  I am one who falls into that category.  I made a "southern bigot" statement to a good friend many years ago, and he called me on my bigotry, and he was right.  (He was a white male liberal from Georgia.)  Since then I've tried to be more careful.

        It doesn't help that the media, especially TV and movies, have perpetuated an attitude of southern ignorance.  I recently saw a clip from an old "I Love Lucy" episode.  In it, Tennessee Ernie Ford appeared as a "southern 'hick'" and the ignorance sterotype was thick.  "Beverly Hillbillies" and "Hee Haw" are a couple of other examples.

        You're asking mainly good intentioned people to look in the mirror with brute honesty -- always a difficult quest.  I believe your diary was honest, not threatening and well stated.  You're touching sensitivities that are obviously uncomfortable to some, and some of them have reacted defensively.  

        So please don't give up.  And thank you.

        "There's always room for cello." Yo Yo Ma

        by ceebee7 on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 11:51:38 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Well, if the same question had been asked in.... (14+ / 0-)

      ....California twenty or thirty years ago...."do you support gay marriage"....I suspect you'd've gotten a similar percentage.

      Nobody said us southerners weren't behind the times. We didn't know about the Beach Boys till 1991!

      I'm really pissed off this time

      by suspiciousmind on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 07:44:51 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I didn't interpret that way (5+ / 0-)

      My takeaway was TDS mocking the stereotype AND statistical probability by humorously poking holes in Nate's analysis that MS and AL would be the last to legalize gay marriage. I thought the segment was hysterical.

      If a terrorist pollutes your water but creates jobs, is that ok?

      by Cecile on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 08:07:08 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Except They Didn't Poke Holes in Anything (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        CaliSista, kyril

        They found between 10-20 people in Alabama and/or Mississippi who (apparently) don't oppose gay marriage.

        They did a great job of refuting the claim that ZERO people in the south support gay marriage (which isn't a claim I've ever seen anyone make in my entire life) but their entire story as presented had no bearing on Nate's analysis.

        •  I thought the segment was funny and uplifting (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          CaliSista, cassandraX, TooFolkGR, kyril

          even though as you say, it did not refute Nate Silver's statistics in any way. I agree, it didn't do that, but I didn't get the impression they were serious about attempting to "poke holes" in his statistical analysis. As Nate said, anecdotal evidence is interesting and colors the analysis, but doesn't make it wrong. It seemed to me he understood the point was to be amusing and he was playing along.

          Nonetheless, I loved seeing the guys getting their photo taken at the State Fair, kissing, and the old man just happily taking the pic, chatting them up, and being absolutely normal about it.

          It was a warming moment to see that even in states where the statistics tell us most people are opposed to marriage equality, and they have elected officials who brag about and are proud of their homophobia and bigotry, there are still good people doing the right thing every day. I liked the segment because it made me feel good that even in the deep south, progress is happening.

    •  What were the statistics a decade ago? (10+ / 0-)

      The point is not hey-everything's-wonderful-in-the-South-now.  The point is, things are changing in the South.  And that should be encouraged.

      Check the statistics again in another ten years.  I think you'll see they're still moving in the right direction.

      Will Mississippi, Alabama, and Tennesee be the last states to approve gay marriage?  Sure, I'd bet money on that.  Will they approve it eventually?  Yeah, I'd also bet money on that.  I may not be able to collect on that bet in my lifetime, but it'll happen.

      And like I said to someone else, if you don't want to help, we'll do it without you.  I'm completely fucking fine with that.

      "Glenn Beck ends up looking like a fat, stupid child. His face should be wearing a chef's hat on the side of a box of eclairs. " - Doug Stanhope

      by Front Toward Enemy on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 08:30:10 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I'd Bet Money on it Too (0+ / 0-)
        Will Mississippi, Alabama, and Tennesee be the last states to approve gay marriage?  Sure, I'd bet money on that.
        Which was the whole point of the Nate Silver piece... which is why I don't understand what the TDS article was supposed to be disproving.

        We will drag them kicking and screaming into human decency... just as we always have.

        •  my take (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          TooFolkGR, cassandraX
          Which was the whole point of the Nate Silver piece... which is why I don't understand what the TDS article was supposed to be disproving.
          Perhaps that even in the most-resistant-to-change places, progress is still being made?

          Just because the red states are the most frustrating areas of the country doesn't mean anyone should write off working to change them... because they are going to change.

          I've been living in Mississippi for my whole life, which is closer-to-50-years-than-I-like-thinking-about, and I've seen amazing changes just in my lifetime.  And the really big changes happened before I was born.  That's really not that long a stretch of time.  It's longer than anyone wants to wait for justice and equality, sure, but humans are a nasty lil' breed.  And most change takes place generationally.

          I think what The Daily Show's experiment was showing was that, yes, things are getting better.  And that should be encouraging.  I don't think, however, that the show was implying, "Whew, we're there now, we can quit."   Nobody but a very naive person believes we're ever going to get there -- North, South, East, West, anywhere.  Because, like I said, humans are a nasty lil' breed.

          That's why it's good to celebrate - and encourage - little progresses like this.  Because a dream of no homophobia, no racism, no classism/ageism/you-name-it-ism... that's never gonna happen, humans being what they are.   Progress has to be triumph enough, as long as it keeps going.  And it is.  When it comes to human development, you only get commas, not periods.

          That's what I get from the Daily Show's experiment.   Things are getting better, so let's keep working.

          "Glenn Beck ends up looking like a fat, stupid child. His face should be wearing a chef's hat on the side of a box of eclairs. " - Doug Stanhope

          by Front Toward Enemy on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 12:42:40 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  kind of misleading (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Batya the Toon, Fiona West, Eric K

    I assume they were there with a crew, cameras etc, people know not to act like idiots when the are going to be on camera. . Not sure two gay people would have as welcomed if this happened with no cameras,

    •  I work with a lot of gay people... (12+ / 0-)

      ...in Mississippi.  And I'm sure there are some people around who give them shit, but for the most part, they're treated just like anyone else.

      One of the people who worked most closely with the public kept a picture of him and his boyfriend (who also worked in the building) prominently displayed on his desk.  He was also featured in the newspaper as one of the town's outstanding citizens because he did a lot of public relations work and was very active in the community theater and sang in his church.  And this guy was extremely "out."  I don't think this dude even had a closet in his house.  And everybody loved him, and his boyfriend.  They've since moved to Texas because he got a higher-paying job, but they still visit often and love the town.

      I'm friends with a lesbian couple who are also widely-liked around here.   When one of them was away for a month or so because of lots of family illnesses, the other (who's legally blind) had no problem getting rides home and to the grocery store from us.  I hate ever saying anything nice about a Republican, but even the conservatives here are happy to do things for this lady... and she's also about as "out" as you can get.

      And it goes on and on.  Sure, there's still closed-mindedness in the South.   But there's also closed-mindedness about the South.  Things are far from perfect, but they're also not as bad as some people seem to have a vested interest in believing.  

      The South is changing, and should not be casually dismissed or written off by Democrats.

      "Glenn Beck ends up looking like a fat, stupid child. His face should be wearing a chef's hat on the side of a box of eclairs. " - Doug Stanhope

      by Front Toward Enemy on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 08:42:04 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Still, the South's politics are wrecking any (5+ / 0-)

    chance we have to move the country forward, the Religious stuff is a real problem and I just can't excuse it just because a few of the people there are not bigots.

    yes there are bigots in MN and NY but these states are not holding the country hostage with religion-based policies

    "The poor can never be made to suffer enough." Jimmy Breslin

    by merrywidow on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 07:40:57 AM PDT

  •  And like your sainted grandmother, all (10+ / 0-)

    fundamentalist Christians aren't Tea Party bigots. I have Pentecostal kinfolk in Mississippi who are loving, caring people that open their hearts to everyone. They're not educated, but they aren't haters, either. Love your diary, because as a southerner myself, I get tired of the "let the idiots secede" comments, too. And that Daily Show skit was wonderfully heartwarming. We must reach out with hearts open, not minds shut.

    "Let's stay together"--Rev. Al Green and President Obama

    by collardgreens on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 07:41:26 AM PDT

  •  Well.... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Shippo1776, TomFromNJ

    I'd have more respect for Southerners if they didn't keep electing right-wing bigoted morons as was shown in that Daily Show segment.  BTW, I lived in Alabama for 10 years, by brother lives in Birmingham (and has lived in AL most of his life), and I currently reside in KY (and have been here for almost 30 years).   When Alabama and Mississippi elects a progressive US Senator instead of the trash they have been, then I'll feel differently.  And yes, KY has sent Mitch and Paul there, but hopefully we can correct one of those mistakes next year.

    "In 20 years, the GOP will be small enough to drown in a bathtub." - me

    by estamm on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 07:46:22 AM PDT

  •  Question for Southerners (6+ / 0-)

    Based on the "findings" of the Daily Show report, is there a big difference between the "common folk" of AL and MS versus the  "elites" who perpetuate the bigoted stereotype?

    Watching what happened, it seemed to me that the "common folk" were very accepting of the "gay" couple while the "elites" were bigoted and convinced that bigotry was endemic to AL and MS.  

    A similar thing happened recently when MS tried to pass a "personhood" bill that outlawed abortion.  The "common folk" rose up and rejected it.

    Since the "common folk" in MS and AL are all in the same row boat, while the "elites" are sailing in their yachts, the former are more accepting of each other now because of their equality of disadvantages.

    Am I correct here?

    •  that's a great question (3+ / 0-)

      There is indeed a big division between the elites and the common folks.

      I've got more to say about that, but no time at present. I'll try to return to it.

      "This is a center-left country. Democrats can act that way and win. In fact, they must." -- Markos

      by cassandraX on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 08:27:24 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  This does not suprise me (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        kyril

        The local elites have the most to loose not from gay marriage but from changing their role in the economy.  They can accommodate gay marriage much more easily than mothers working outside the home and unionization (these change the status of workers).  

        The good news is that all these positive actions towards marriage equality makes it easier to break the power of local economic elites.  Marriage for all is a populist position.  Populism plays well everywhere*.

        * except club Koch.  

        I'm a 4 Freedoms Democrat.

        by DavidMS on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 10:03:19 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  This is anecdotal (12+ / 0-)

      so take it for what it's worth, but hey...

      In the early 90's, I worked with a woman from New Hope (a tiny town outside Huntsville).  She was our department secretary, real country, religious, and pretty conservative.

      Except on gay rights.

      This was when the DADT policy was first going into effect and all over the news.  Joan shocked us all by being vocally opposed to some of the ugly homophobic stuff being spewed around the office.

      As so much is... it was because of a family member.

      Her mother-in-law was having some health problems, but was trying her best to remain at home. Joan & her husband were being run ragged trying to go over there several times a week (1 hour drive) to check on her.

      But then a nice new couple bought the house across the street and started helping her out, mowing her lawn, picking up groceries, even taking her to church.  The old lady LOVED them, but at first Joan's husband wanted nothing to do with them and didn't want them near his mama.

      You see it coming, right?  It was a gay couple that moved in and immediately saw a need that the other neighbors ignored - people who had known her for decades.

      I can still remember Joan talking to me about it and struggling to explain how her feelings had changed. "I just sat down and talked with them and they were so good to Mama Bishop and... I ..... well, I finally realized that they're just people like everyone else and I hate to hear ugly talk about them."

      So much in the South is built on personal relationships.  I'm sure this nice couple didn't realize they were acting as some sort of gay missionaries, but the simple fact that they were "out" and made themselves a part of the community changed the people around them.  And those people, in turn, spoke out against prejudice.

      And when the woman died, the neighbors were pallbearers at the funeral in her Pentecostal church and went back to the house with the rest of the family for lunch afterwards.

      I know it's easy for me - a married, middle-aged white woman to tell my gay friends that the need to be honest about their lives and talk to their family & friends.  But I've lived in Alabama all my life; I'm 7th generation and I know that it's the only surefire way to change attitudes.  

      This may not have answered your question, but I do love the story.  :-)

      Yes. There ARE progressive Democrats in Alabama. Visit with us at Left in Alabama

      by countrycat on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 08:47:29 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  The Elites Have A Stake In Fomenting Division (4+ / 0-)

      Obfuscating the right-wing economic agenda of upward wealth transfer will only get them so far -- they also need wedge issues to keep the votes coming in.

      Also, at least some of the power elite believe the worst "dumb redneck" stereotypes (it makes it easier for them to feel superior to the common folk), and thus tailor their campaigns accordingly.

      On the Internet, nobody knows if you're a dog... but everybody knows if you're a jackass.

      by stevemb on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 10:06:15 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Where do the stereotypes come from? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Alexandra Lynch

    There must be SOME sort of mechanism that keeps them perpetuated. If the stereotyped group has constant, obvious and generally-seen reactions, boasts, and slice-of-life impressions widely disseminated in popular culture or the media that perpetrate the stereotype, then it will persist.
    When you have "You Might Be a Redneck" comedy sketches as popular fare, when NASCAR racing is universally acclaimed as representing your culture, when its elected leaders pass restrictive and racist laws that draw national attention, what kind of image of would you expect to have of that "stereotype"?

    Ash-sha'b yurid isqat an-nizam!

    by fourthcornerman on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 08:09:48 AM PDT

    •  Did you see the parts where I acknowledge this? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      davidincleveland

      They're there. Really. I promise.

      "This is a center-left country. Democrats can act that way and win. In fact, they must." -- Markos

      by cassandraX on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 08:28:37 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Of course there's a mechanism (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      johnva

      that keeps them perpetuated.

      It's called bigotry.  Same as all the other stereotypes.

    •  I Recall Isaac Asimov's Essay "Knock Plastic" (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      kyril

      Asimov's thesis was that irrational notions ultimately arise from six basic "Security Beliefs":

      1: There exist supernatural forces that can be cajoled or forced into protecting mankind.

      2: There is no such thing, really, as death.

      3: There is some purpose to the Universe.

      4: Individuals have special powers that will enable them to get something for nothing.

      5: You are better than the next fellow.

      6: If anything goes wrong, it's not one's own fault.

      Obviously (as he noted in the essay), bigotry is a direct consequence of #5, with occasional contributions from #6.

      On the Internet, nobody knows if you're a dog... but everybody knows if you're a jackass.

      by stevemb on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 10:14:03 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Stereotypes are partial truths (7+ / 0-)

    and partial truths are falsehood, ultimately.  If there were not SOME cause for generalization stereotypes wouldn't exist. There's a reason why every ethnic group and subculture can tell jokes about its own members that both insiders and outsiders find hilarious. We do recognize ourselves in the mirror:  But it's a funhouse mirror.

    Bigotry is believing that the caricatures that form stereotypes are universal truths about any sub-group of a society.

    When I watch "My Name is Earl," I laugh because I recognize extended family members in that portrait. But it's lovingly done: The good along with the bad.

    By contrast, hateful bigoted comments, whether said by white racists against various persons of color, by male chauvenists against women, by heteronormists against LGBT folk, or by "Yankee Liberals" (I smile when I say that) against the South--are not funny, do not recognize the distortion in the mirror, recognize no exceptions, etc.  And when hurtful actions go along with bigotry (e.g., like progressives writing off the Deep South, or writing off Utah, Alaska, Oklahoma, Idaho, or Wyoming--all arguably more conservative than the South in many ways), those actions betray the very values progressives claim to advocate.

    "I was not born for myself alone, but for my neighbor as well as myself."--Richard Overton, leader of the Levellers, a17th C. movement for democracy and equality during the English Civil War. http://www.kynect.ky.gov/ for healthcare coverage in Kentucky

    by SouthernLeveller on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 08:17:47 AM PDT

  •  excellent diary (8+ / 0-)

    Like all things in the South, change comes slowly... but it does come.   For the most part, the younger generations aren't buying into the old bullshit, and the older people to stubborn to give up on it are dying out pretty fast (partially thanks to the abnormally high cancer rates the Republicans they keep electing help the South "enjoy" - we'll let ya'll dump toxic stuff anywhere if ya give us a dollar, trustin' the lord'll protect us).

    The place I work is, I dunno, maybe 30% gay?  And it's a total non-issue.      

    Race relations have undergone a similar thing.  I see interracial couples all the time and nobody bats an eye about it... here in a state where a 14-year-old Emmett Till was once murdered just for whistling at a white woman.  

    In a way, I think it's sometimes helpful to have a bad past to live down.  Having something to be ashamed of makes people work harder not to repeat their mistakes.  Which is why the North has its own race problems... and yet, at times, remains smug and points elsewhere.  Down here, people have a reason to want to do better, because we wish our grandparents and great-grandparents had left us a better track record.

    Of course, there are still the idiotic Tea Party types who've never met a brand of bigotry they didn't like, but those aren't limited to the South.   And they'll die out, too. Not fast enough to please anybody, but, they're losing, and they're going to keep on losing.

    We won't see Miss'ippi, 'Bama, or Tennessee turn blue any time soon, but 50 years ago nobody would've believed those states would have gay or interracial couples walking around free from attack, either.  That's why the South is worth Democrats fighting for.  Change does come.  There are just some stubborn spots where it requires a little more patience and effort, is all.

    "Glenn Beck ends up looking like a fat, stupid child. His face should be wearing a chef's hat on the side of a box of eclairs. " - Doug Stanhope

    by Front Toward Enemy on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 08:18:26 AM PDT

    •  You're on to something important (5+ / 0-)

      with this:

      In a way, I think it's sometimes helpful to have a bad past to live down.  Having something to be ashamed of makes people work harder not to repeat their mistakes.
       

      When Alabama's horrible immigration law was being debated, I was at an immigration event and happened to talk with Joey Kennedy, a Pulitzer Prize winning writer for the Birmingham News.

      I complimented him on his coverage of the issue and said I was surprised at how strongly the paper's pretty conservative editorial board came out against it.

      Kennedy told me that they'd had meeting about that and someone pulled out the paper's coverage from the civil rights movement.  They were horrified at how the paper glossed over events - or even ignored them entirely.  

      They board decided, as a whole, that history wouldn't look at them the same way.

      Yes. There ARE progressive Democrats in Alabama. Visit with us at Left in Alabama

      by countrycat on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 08:53:21 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  But what do you think would happen (0+ / 0-)

    if the gay couple were also a mixed race couple?

    "You have no respect for excessive authority or obsolete traditions. You're dangerous and depraved, and you ought to be taken outside and shot!" - Catch 22 by Joseph Heller

    by rambler american on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 08:27:50 AM PDT

    •  when I was a white woman dating a black guy (7+ / 0-)

      in the South in 1969, I was picked up and harassed by the police for hours for just holding his hand in the park. Today you can see dozens of mixed race and gay couples in that same park and no one bats an eye.

      The stereotype that really bothered me was that someone speaking with a Southern or Texas accent is not too bright. It's amazing to me how many people still make that association today.

      working for a world that works for everyone ...

      by USHomeopath on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 08:48:02 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  A friend of mine said she deliberately lost her (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Throw The Bums Out

        accent, because, as she put it, "I'm female, and I'm fat, and I can't do much about either, but I can at least not sound like I came out of a trailer park. "

        She is in Huntsville AL, for what that's worth.

        When you come to find how essential the comfort of a well-kept home is to the bodily strength and good conditions, to a sound mind and spirit, and useful days, you will reverence the good housekeeper as I do above artist or poet, beauty or genius.

        by Alexandra Lynch on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 10:59:17 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  stereotype? (0+ / 0-)

    Perhaps the Southerners are happy to clap for the gay couple.
    Then the next day they will go to church and pray for their perverted souls. And they will go to the ballot box and vote against same-sex marriage.

    Obama 2012...going to win it with our support!!!

    by mattinjersey on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 08:31:50 AM PDT

  •  isn't the divide more city vs country? (3+ / 0-)

    When i look at a map of votes, i am always schocked how much red there is....until i realize the red is empty lands. So it seems to me the real divide in the US is not North vs South, but between city vs countryside, with suburbs beinf kinda purple.

  •  Pity they didn't hire an actual gay couple. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Eric K, kyril

    It's not like they're in short supply.

    Early to rise and early to bed Makes a man healthy, wealthy, and dead. --Not Benjamin Franklin

    by Boundegar on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 09:02:03 AM PDT

  •  It isn't North/South, it's URBAN/RURAL (5+ / 0-)

    The thing it, it's never been "North/South" in terms of anti-gay bigotry, as much as urban/rural.  Look at Texas:  Dallas -- gay sheriff, Houston -- gay mayor.  

    But get outside the cities, and you get very homophobic (violently so), very quickly.  

    Minority rights should never be subject to majority vote.

    by lostboyjim on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 09:18:57 AM PDT

    •  Yes, always follow the money (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      viral

      It's easier to make a living in the urban areas. They have industries, corporate headquarters, big companies and support companies. It is easier to make money in economies that have money. Out in the country, it's harder to make a living. Usually there are no big companies. People are more protective of their community from outsiders because they are trying to prevent exploitation by outsiders. Anything seen as different is feared.


      i just baptized andrew breitbart into the church of islam, planned parenthood, the girl scouts and three teachers unions. - @blainecapatch

      by bobinson on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 09:31:04 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I think it's worth noting... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      cassandraX

      that the rural/urban divide has been at least partially at the root of most fascist movements, historically. There seems to be a human impulse to regard rural areas as somehow more "pure" in their association with traditional values. But the fact is, we live in an increasingly urbanized world. Allowing rural areas to exercise disproportionate power drains the economic resources and vitality from our cities, and really shouldn't be allowed to continue.

      Maybe it's our system of land-based democratic representation that does a poor job of representing a society that mostly lives in cities, since it was designed before society was like that. I don't see a good near-term solution for that, though.

      But yes, I agree that the rural/urban divide is really the key political divide in our country now. It's way under-appreciated by a lot of people, but it's the biggie. It's way more significant than "red states" vs "blue states", or virtually any other way you can slice and dice people into demographics. Even most other significant demographic divides are, in fact, strongly correlated to rural/urban areas.

      •  In regards to that... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        johnva

        think of Palin's "Real America".  The "Real" Rural "Heart of America".  

        Minority rights should never be subject to majority vote.

        by lostboyjim on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 09:59:41 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I though that only existed (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          johnva

          in the feverish imaginations of conservatives and Thomas Kinkade kitsch.  

          I'm a 4 Freedoms Democrat.

          by DavidMS on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 10:07:07 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  It IS a bit of a delusion. (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            bigtimecynic, lostboyjim, cassandraX

            As I said, we ARE an urban society, regardless of what conservatives think about that. Nobody's opinion can change that, as that's just the facts on the ground.

            BUT, that doesn't mean that so-called "rural values" aren't still a powerful emotional motivator for conservatives. Even though most Americans live in cities and towns, a lot of them apparently like to THINK OF themselves as fundamentally "country folk". And that seems to be a big part of the right-wing impulse not just in the U.S., but in countries around the world. Conservatives, like Palin, often have the idea that cities are decadent, immoral, degenerate places and that rural communities are the "real America". By that, what they mean is the "pure America". This is also very tied up with the obsession that a lot of religious conservatives have with purification of society in general (and yes, I believe that THAT is related to racist/homophobic views that a lot of the same people harbor).

            If you look at other fascist movements historically, they often had a similar idea about cities being immoral dens of evil that need to be "saved" by pure traditional values kept alive by the rural areas. (And yes, I believe that the Tea Party is a proto-fascist movement by almost any definition).

            And it's also true that rural areas in most of the U.S. overwhelmingly vote Republican at much higher rates than urban areas do. If you look at a fine-grained map of areas that voted for Obama vs. Romney, it's really just a map of urban vs. rural areas (I'm greatly overgeneralizing, of course, but that's still mostly true).

    •  I was shocked to see "Rural TV" in my cable (0+ / 0-)

      lineup as an actual channel.  This whole "rural/urban" divide is so fake and manufactured.  A coal miner in Kentucky doesn't have more in common with an Iowa corn farmer than he does with an urban Pittsburgh steel worker, or a musician in Boston for that matter.  Are they really assumed to be part of the same demographic simply because of their similar surrounding population density?

      It's all about creating a market for selling stuff, whether it be a political party, music, or clothes. Think about mainstream "country" music. It's mostly bland pop rock that is "country" only because the lyrics tell the listener that it is "country." It's such an obvious marketing job.

      It's interesting because there are plenty of truly rural people in places like Vermont that don't buy into this marketing ploy.

      Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room!

      by bigtimecynic on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 12:29:03 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Excellent Diary (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cassandraX

    I've lived in the East, West, Midwest and South. And Texas. There is no shortage of bigots in any state. Agree w/ those who point out it's mainly an urban/rural divide. It's no coincidence that GA, with a thriving, progressive Atlanta population, is turning blue. I'm wearing blue in solidarity.

  •  I voted no (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cassandraX

    But would have certainly voted for Derby Pie!

    We're not all bad.  Our Mayor here in Lexington, KY is openly gay, but the only thing people are pissed at him about is that he didn't change Trick or Treat time fast enough to suite people in advance of the storms.

    Manufacturing outrage; the only manufacturing jobs Republicans won't outsource.

    by get the red out on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 10:04:23 AM PDT

  •  I've fought against redneck-ery all my life. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cassandraX

    Being raised in the south, I can tell you, being a DFH liberal could/can get you killed.

    But there are probably more enlightened folks here in Atlanta than just about anywhere else in the world.

    I've encountered redneck/bigots all over the world and in the US, the north and the west have some of the worst.

    Those of us in the south of a liberal/progressive persuasion are on the front lines in the fight against intolerance and hatred and all of the other right-wing "agendas".

    "I've been learning how to squirm without any perceptible movement." --- Terry Douglas

    by zorp on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 10:26:57 AM PDT

  •  Daily Show makes me (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cassandraX

    laugh and yell but seldom does it bring me to tears. That did. I'm glad you brought attention to it.

    You're gonna need a bigger boat.

    by Debby on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 10:40:26 AM PDT

  •  Thank You, Thank You, THANK YOU!!! (0+ / 0-)
    But while I acknowledge the flaws, I get really really really pissed off when I encounter negative stereotypes of the South. Just like I get really really really pissed off at stereotypes about ANY people because stereotypes are ignorant.
    A million thank yous!

    “I believe all Southern liberals come from the same starting point--race. Once you figure out they are lying to you about race, you start to question everything.” ― Molly Ivins

    by RoIn on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 11:16:38 AM PDT

  •  Vicco Kentucky (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    countrycat, kyril

    OK.  KY isn't really a southern state but Stephen Colbert did his part to smash sterotypes with this segment about Vicco, KY, the smallest town in American with an ordinance banning discrimination based on sexual orientation.  The town's mayor is a gay man as well, beloved in his small, rural, community:

    http://www.colbertnation.com/...

    “I believe all Southern liberals come from the same starting point--race. Once you figure out they are lying to you about race, you start to question everything.” ― Molly Ivins

    by RoIn on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 11:26:32 AM PDT

  •  i would vote for pecan pie but that depends... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    susanala, cassandraX

    on whether it's pee-can pie or pe-cahn pie.

    I'm a blue drop in a red bucket.

    by blue drop on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 11:29:33 AM PDT

  •  How is this TDS piece any different... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ceebee7

    ...than the interview with the North Carolina Republican official who was fine with "hurting" the voting prospects of "lazy blacks"?

    It's about holding a mirror up to those willing to espouse the most naked prejudice.

  •  Lose the obvious cameras/crew then see how it goes (0+ / 0-)

    I bet the results would be a wee bit different.

  •  50SS FTW (0+ / 0-)

    We need to get back to firing up our base whichever state they reside in.

    The Democratic base is the best sales tool for Democratic nominees.

    --
    Make sure everyone's vote counts: Verified Voting

    by sacrelicious on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 12:00:21 PM PDT

  •  Part of the reason we're seeing such (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    countrycat

    a vicious push-back these days, with ultra-conservative types coming out of the woodwork, is that they are looking around, seeing others modifying their views (stereotypes) and reacting with fear.  FEAR.  It is the great force which is counted on by the right to cause those susceptible to fear-based behavior to fight like crazy against any change to the status quo.

    Stated otherwise:  If they're shooting at you, you must be doing something right.

    "There's always room for cello." Yo Yo Ma

    by ceebee7 on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 12:02:35 PM PDT

  •  You know why so many southern states outlawed (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Cassandra Waites, kyril

    interracial marriage?  Because they HAD to.  

    Think about it; If it was an abomination that no god fearing white person would ever engage in, then why the need to outlaw it? The power structure had to outlaw it to prevent it. Because a large percent of southerners never bought into slavery, never bought into racism, and never bought into bigotry. That's why bigotry had to become legal, mandatory, and institutionalized.  Because it didn't have the universal support that the bigots craved.

    Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room!

    by bigtimecynic on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 12:17:01 PM PDT

  •  I for one like getting my bubble popped every (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cassandraX

    now and again, and appreciate The Daily Show troupe showing me my lazy you-oughta-know better prejudices.

    I'm guessing though, that confederate rainbow confederate flags (check the video at 2:52 on the countdown) aren't really a thing, are they?

  •  LBJ was from Texas, Jimmy Carter is from Georgia, (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cassandraX

    Bill Clinton is from Arkansas, and Al Gore is from Tennessee.

    Progressives can be found in all states and regions.

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