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Fri Nov 01, 2013 at 06:07 AM PDT
by Ted RallFollow for Ted Rall
Cross-posted from Rall.com:
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by Ted Rall on Fri Nov 01, 2013 at 06:07:10 AM PDT
but the subsidies are actually payable as you go along. People have the choice between getting them concurrent with their payments or as a lump sum at the end of the year. Some folks like to use the feds as a saving club, for reasons that are murky to me.
Gotta admit, zero is the simplest number!
by Wee Mama on Fri Nov 01, 2013 at 07:14:32 AM PDT
Here's the relevant info, straight from the IRS:
If you are eligible for the credit, you can choose to:
* Get It Now: have some or all of the estimated credit paid in advance directly to your insurance company to lower what you pay out-of-pocket for your monthly premiums during 2014; or
* Get It Later: wait to get all of the credit when you file your 2014 tax return in 2015.
by dmd76 on Fri Nov 01, 2013 at 07:52:58 AM PDT
[ Parent ]
In cartoons, when there's a character talking, it's not the cartoonist talking. Unless it's the cartoonist drawing himself or herself. Here, it's a Republican (I had Ted Cruz in mind). So maybe he's not 100% accurate?
by Ted Rall on Fri Nov 01, 2013 at 07:58:59 AM PDT
this is obvious, right?
by Ted Rall on Fri Nov 01, 2013 at 07:59:16 AM PDT
by ek hornbeck on Fri Nov 01, 2013 at 06:56:33 PM PDT
the Republican isn't a stand-in for you? Who knew‽
by dmd76 on Fri Nov 01, 2013 at 08:05:16 AM PDT
"The GOP on Healthcare."
Are you claiming that the cartoonist is a member of the GOP?
by Aunt Martha on Fri Nov 01, 2013 at 08:59:15 AM PDT
pushes GOP lies, in this and other diaries.
by dmd76 on Fri Nov 01, 2013 at 11:07:19 AM PDT
am I right?
First of all, bullshit on the GOP lies. And second, if you don't like his form of graphic satire, feel free to not read him. Lots of other cartoonists and writers on DKos who you might not be quite as inclined to try to squelch or censor.
"Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob." -- Franklin D. Roosevelt
by Kombema on Fri Nov 01, 2013 at 01:09:09 PM PDT
he should stop lying. I know why you want to defend his right to lie, but I don't share your opinion. Deal with it.
by dmd76 on Fri Nov 01, 2013 at 01:56:22 PM PDT
accusing me of lying without any evidence whatsoever.
See, this is how you prove someone is a liar.
Say someone told you that you could keep your present insurance plan, period, no matter what. And they kept saying it over and over, for years.
And then that turned out not to be true.
And THEN it turned out that that someone KNEW it wasn't true before they said it over and over.
You could credibly accuse that person of being a liar.
What you could not do is say that someone is a liar because:
you disagree with them
something they said is similar to something that a Republican said
because nothing, because you didn't lay out any evidence.
Because that wouldn't be logical. And also not nice.
by Ted Rall on Sat Nov 02, 2013 at 10:55:43 AM PDT
elsewhere. Using a stand-in to spout your lies doesn't make them any less misleading.
by dmd76 on Sun Nov 03, 2013 at 06:17:51 AM PST
but that seems to be lost on you and others here.
"Information is power. But like all power there are those who want to keep it for themselves" Aaron Swartz, 1986 - 2013
by TheMomCat on Fri Nov 01, 2013 at 01:22:19 PM PDT
I mean, seriously, some people just don't want to be pleased.
by Ted Rall on Sat Nov 02, 2013 at 10:56:15 AM PDT
this point was so much more inaccurate than the rest of what the character was saying that it raised my notice.
I don't know how many of your usual readers would know that this is a misrepresentation -
by Wee Mama on Fri Nov 01, 2013 at 08:11:11 AM PDT
the truth on Obamacare so it goes to say in a cartoon with a GOP caricature would be saying things that are not true.
if the guy in the cartoon was accurate, then that would kind of be like saying the GOP is speaking truth, no?
"The further a society drifts from truth, the more it will hate those that speak it." ~George Orwell "When it is dark enough, you can see the stars." ~Charles Beard
by poligirl on Fri Nov 01, 2013 at 08:37:34 AM PDT
Almost every other observation about the exchanges is correct.
The point of the cartoon is that, as bad as the ACA is, the GOP has nothing (i.e., zero).
But I don't get the point about being wrong about subsidies in the second panel.
"Well, I'm sure I'd feel much worse if I weren't under such heavy sedation..."--David St. Hubbins
by Old Left Good Left on Fri Nov 01, 2013 at 09:15:49 AM PDT
that the cartoonist is pointing out as incorrect and offer no solution for making the process less complex.
by TheMomCat on Fri Nov 01, 2013 at 01:26:47 PM PDT
to suggest a fix to a problem.
It's really the job to point it out, or to make people think about it.
by Ted Rall on Sat Nov 02, 2013 at 10:57:53 AM PDT
did not mess a hair on your head. You didn't read far enough:
Republicans say Obama’s attempt reform healthcare is too complicated. So they’ve come up with a simple alternative: nothing.
by TheMomCat on Fri Nov 01, 2013 at 01:25:07 PM PDT
by Wee Mama on Fri Nov 01, 2013 at 03:19:29 PM PDT
out as a talking point by the GOP that the cartoon highlights. But as I said, you missed that and obviously still are.
by TheMomCat on Fri Nov 01, 2013 at 08:06:04 PM PDT
by Wee Mama on Fri Nov 01, 2013 at 09:00:47 PM PDT
I've been doing this since 1987, in hundreds of newspapers. People know who I am and what my politics are.
by Ted Rall on Sat Nov 02, 2013 at 10:56:58 AM PDT
maybe Ted thinks he's being subtle.
Zero is what the baggers etc call Obama.
Maybe he thinks Kossacks are too stupid to get it.
Ron Reagan: "Sarah Palin's constituency are people who wear red rubber noses and bells on their shoes."
by AnnetteK on Fri Nov 01, 2013 at 07:59:28 AM PDT
Even a cartoon trashing Republicans is somehow a veiled attack on Barack Obama.
Apparently the content of Ted's diaries matters not at all, now that he's prominent on the enemies list.
When you triangulate everything, you can't even roll downhill...
by PhilJD on Fri Nov 01, 2013 at 08:25:36 AM PDT
the GOP as not saying anything accurate about Obamacare and he's getting attacked for it.
how much do you want to bet if the guy in the cartoon was saying accurate things that they would ding Ted on portraying GOPers as 'too kind'?
jeebus. the box header on top of the first panel says that this is the GOP talking about Obamacare.
blinded by Rall hate i guess. or maybe just not doing any reading comprehension. either way doesn't speak well of them.
by poligirl on Fri Nov 01, 2013 at 08:41:11 AM PDT
What else is inaccurate?
* Buggy website. Check
* Dozens of choice. Check
* Loaded with jargon. Check, though that's more of a value judgement
* Rate might go up. Check
* Subsidy might lower rate. Check
* How much you pay depends on income, age, cigarette use, and county you live in. Check
* Subsidies reimbursed by the feds after being fronted by insurance policy holder. Wrong
Some folks are so blinded by Obama hate, they'll promote lies.
by dmd76 on Fri Nov 01, 2013 at 11:00:02 AM PDT
the ACA that's causing all of this - they're saying this is why the ACA is bad.
you seriously think it's the ACA that's responsible for this? that insurance in general wasn't already like this?
really? that's what you're saying?
and the website isn't "complicated", it's straightforward, when it works, which it doesn't. again, it's not the ACA that's the problem.
you can't see the forest for the trees. geez.
by poligirl on Fri Nov 01, 2013 at 11:17:22 AM PDT
Secondly, of course the ACA is "repsponsible". Without it the exchange websites, subsidies, and changes to the individual insurance market would not be. The bugginess of the federal exchange site wasn't baked into the law, obviously, but the other changes that the GOP criticizes are new features, not bugs, of the health insurance market brought about by the ACA: Exchanges where people can choose from many insurance offerings that are accurately described ("loaded with jargon"), subsidies that make insurance affordable for more people, mandated minimum standards for health insurance policies that will, in some cases, cause people to pay more than they did before.
by dmd76 on Fri Nov 01, 2013 at 11:50:25 AM PDT
just don't understand the conversation. so good day.
by poligirl on Fri Nov 01, 2013 at 12:33:57 PM PDT
has become a lost art.
by TheMomCat on Fri Nov 01, 2013 at 01:28:45 PM PDT
Your condescension is so cute. How can someone so wrong be so obliviously self-assured? Take care of yourself, poligirl: this world has to be a mysterious and dangerous place for you.
by dmd76 on Fri Nov 01, 2013 at 01:51:58 PM PDT
by poligirl on Fri Nov 01, 2013 at 08:03:22 PM PDT
by dmd76 on Sun Nov 03, 2013 at 07:26:31 AM PST
That some of us have been shooting down bullshit attacks on Obamacare so long that it's reflexive. I've literally heard two-dozen people repeat this particular claim numerous times, so the temptation is pretty strong to just point out it's incorrect.
It's also worth noting that every other "criticism" the "Republican" in the comic makes is more or less accurate. If there had been some more oft-repeated hyperbole like "death panels," "congress is exempt," etc. people might have picked up on the theme of Republican ignorance/dishonesty more obviously.
Too Folk For You.
by TooFolkGR on Fri Nov 01, 2013 at 08:41:37 AM PDT
does clearly state that this is the GOP on Obamacare, so it was pretty clear.
i think once a person gets branded around this place, a lot of people just stop reading what that person posts and just assumes they know what it says and then they comment without actually reading what was said.
by poligirl on Fri Nov 01, 2013 at 08:46:21 AM PDT
Maybe everybody needs to start challenging their own assumptions, ourselves included?
by TooFolkGR on Fri Nov 01, 2013 at 08:48:20 AM PDT
(though i fail sometimes) to read and rate the comment/diary and not the commenter/diarist. i think things might be a little nicer if everyone tried to just not even look at the writer's names in comments or diaries and instead just dealt with the content....
i think that you and me may be asking for too perfect a world in that though. sigh...
by poligirl on Fri Nov 01, 2013 at 10:11:30 AM PDT
But cartoonists have already had years of field days with Sarah Palin et al and their death panels. I pride myself on my desire to move the conversation forward, rather than restating and recycling rehashed mockery of the past.
by Ted Rall on Sat Nov 02, 2013 at 11:02:12 AM PDT
someone will make a comment that it makes the cartoonist one with the worst of teabaggerdom, and others will uprate it.
by Aunt Martha on Fri Nov 01, 2013 at 09:02:44 AM PDT
I just thought it would make a nice sight gag in the last panel.
After all, the funny thing about this is that the Republicans could really go to town if they had a desire to do anything, anything at all, to deprivatize the healthcare system.
America needs a liberal party. If the Republicans were smart, they would copy FDR and become that liberal party, to the Left of the current right-wing pro-war Democrats, and thus bring about the first major transformation since 1932.
But they're total idiots, so that won't happen. And the country continues to drift right...
by Ted Rall on Sat Nov 02, 2013 at 11:00:33 AM PDT
And this is a lie I've heard them repeat many times.
by TooFolkGR on Fri Nov 01, 2013 at 08:03:28 AM PDT
money before they reimburse you. You can select an advance subsidy which will pay your subsidies up front.
I'd like to start a new meme: "No means no" is a misnomer. It should be "Only 'Yes' means yes." Just because someone doesn't say "No" doesn't mean they've given consent. If she didn't say "Yes", there is no consent.
by second gen on Fri Nov 01, 2013 at 08:09:50 AM PDT
what is being portrayed in the cartoon (it even says so prominently on the first panel), would tell the truth about Obamacare?
or are you just blinded by your hate of Ted Rall?
by poligirl on Fri Nov 01, 2013 at 08:42:45 AM PDT
are correct: the website is buggy, and rates do depend on age, location and smoking history. The second panel is mostly correct, except for the statement that you have to "front" premiums.
So what exactly is Rall's point? Why make an error in describing only one aspect of the exchange?
by Old Left Good Left on Fri Nov 01, 2013 at 09:13:50 AM PDT
saying that and blaming it on Obamacare *is* a whole lot of hooey and i'm surprised you didn't get that - and it's that hyperbole that the GOP always uses.
nuance counts and not enough folks around here get that. sigh...
by poligirl on Fri Nov 01, 2013 at 10:17:18 AM PDT
And you don't answer the question: why make a number of correct statements and one demonstrably false one?
by Old Left Good Left on Fri Nov 01, 2013 at 10:33:16 AM PDT
is either a liar or doesn't know what he's talking about.
by dmd76 on Fri Nov 01, 2013 at 11:01:22 AM PDT
time you've called the diarist a liar.
by gooderservice on Fri Nov 01, 2013 at 01:47:00 PM PDT
calls 'em like i sees 'em. He's a liar or a fool, and I'm not feeling generous today.
by dmd76 on Fri Nov 01, 2013 at 01:54:14 PM PDT
They should handle it, not you deciding who lies and who doesn't based on your mood today.
by gooderservice on Fri Nov 01, 2013 at 01:56:16 PM PDT
by dmd76 on Fri Nov 01, 2013 at 01:57:17 PM PDT
the one that is making income, smoking, county, etc... an issue and NOT the way insurance companies always have?
cuz yeah, on its face, that statement as the GOPer is saying it is very misleading.
if you can't comprehend that and you think that it's the ACA that is adding all this income, smoking, county, etc stuff to get insurance, i certainly can't help ya.
by poligirl on Fri Nov 01, 2013 at 11:13:17 AM PDT
The punchline comes at the end.
The point is no matter what their criticisms--their solution to all health care ills is do nothing, because the rich people they give a shit about were doing fine in the first place.
by TooFolkGR on Fri Nov 01, 2013 at 10:17:49 AM PDT
what I don't get is why Rall is wrong about one specific thing in the second panel.
by Old Left Good Left on Fri Nov 01, 2013 at 10:44:46 AM PDT
by second gen on Fri Nov 01, 2013 at 11:02:41 AM PDT
Obama is also duly noted, as is your grade school hall monitoring of me and Brecht.
by poligirl on Fri Nov 01, 2013 at 11:19:28 AM PDT
Although your buddy Brecht has decided that I am not allowed to comment in this diary, so. . . who's the hall monitor now?
by second gen on Fri Nov 01, 2013 at 11:23:55 AM PDT
Firstly, if my comment in another diary bothered you, address it there instead of dragging it in here.
Secondly, you were being a hall monitor, even if you thought you were being witty about it.
Your comment's message was, that you're sick of Ted Rall's Obamacare diaries. My message was a karmically balanced response: go read other diaries, and reduce the aggravation all round.
Daily Kos is about meaningful discussion. I have no problem with good-faith dialog, and Ted doesn't seem to either. But you don't bring that. You bring endless, tiresome carping. You don't like Ted's diaries, and yet you rush into them to find fault. Your whole aim here is to be a hall monitor.
"Every man has a right to utter what he thinks truth" Samuel Johnson
by Brecht on Fri Nov 01, 2013 at 11:40:13 AM PDT
by second gen on Fri Nov 01, 2013 at 11:58:48 AM PDT
After I make a comment in a diary, I usually only go to my comments and view replies. I cant' help it if Ted Rall posted two "OMG! Obamacare" diaries so close together.
by second gen on Fri Nov 01, 2013 at 12:30:29 PM PDT
It was not aiming to personally insult you, but to critique your behavior in Ted Rall's two diaries today.
From your two responses, I can see that you take no responsibility for your words and actions; and you have yet to show any interest in addressing the substance of Ted's diaries in a meaningful and constructive manner.
I'm not here to help you derail Ted's diaries with mean and petty bickering. Perhaps we'll have a worthwhile conversation some other day.
Stop being a dick to Ted, and to other kossacks. Good day.
by Brecht on Fri Nov 01, 2013 at 03:14:12 PM PDT
Yours and Brecht's Ted Rall love
by gooderservice on Fri Nov 01, 2013 at 01:50:41 PM PDT
I'm just reaching down to it.
by second gen on Fri Nov 01, 2013 at 02:28:23 PM PDT
by you on soon
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