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They never give up and they fight hard no matter what the odds.  What happened in Virginia's governor's race is a good example.  The polls had McAuliffe an average of more than seven points ahead.  All the talk among the chattering classes (including those here) was how pathetic and hopeless Cuccinelli's campaign.  Rush Limpbaugh was even spinning Cuccinelli's loss before the election.

But neither Cuccinellli, nor his conservative Republican backers gave up.

Way back -- in 2003 -- I was fed up with Gray Davis, so when there was talk about recalling him, I signed up to get news about the recall.  This got me on a conservative Republican mailing list that no matter how hard I try to get off, it still sends me Republican political spam. Not just requests for money, but also support to get out the vote.

And for Cuccinelli they kept the spam coming several times a day right up to the day before the election.  They were undaunted; they kept fighting; and they almost pulled it off.

This is in sobering contrast to how Democrats dealt with the governor's race in New Jersey.   Polls showed that Buono had little chance for election so nobody lifted a finger to help her.  Most years I contribute fairly generously to Democratic candidates, so I'm on many lists.  But I received no fundraising spam on Buono's behalf.  Nobody asked me to do anything.  The Democrats simply curled up and gave up on Buono.  And for what?  So they could raise more money for McAuliffe?

The Republicans are vicious.  They fight dirty and they fight hard.  And, in the long run, that pays off in politics.  Democrats, by contrast, always seem to count on their opponents sinking the 8 ball in the wrong pocket, effectively to win by default.

And that's what all the chortling around here about Republican civil war sounds like to me.  People patting themselves on the back because the Republicans are about to sink the 8 ball in the wrong pocket.

Don't count on it.

So here's to the Republicans.  We should be more like you.  Not on policy, but certainly in the seriousness and dedication we bring to the game.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Agreed (16+ / 0-)

    (I gave to Buono and thereafter got plenty of spam from her, though not from the DNC, etc.)

    The GOP: "You can always go to the Emergency Room."

    by Upper West on Wed Nov 06, 2013 at 06:52:46 AM PST

  •  Agreed (4+ / 0-)

    nosotros no somos estúpidos

    by a2nite on Wed Nov 06, 2013 at 06:55:58 AM PST

  •  My first reaction is to say that (31+ / 0-)

    it is two different things. McAuliffe is not Christie. And to a large extent that is true. McAuliffe's campaign was never the slam dunk that Christie was the Republicans. So, I mentally compared what the Republicans do in high profile races where they don't really have a chance to win.

    I thought of the Ted Kennedy races in MA over the years. Even though the GOP never had a real chance to unseat Kennedy, they used these races as a training ground for candidates for future races. Do the names Mitt Romney and William Weld come to mind?

    Speaking of Ted, there was that special election race where the GOP didn't have any chance to win either. And they didn't, barring some Democratic bumbling. But they seriously contested it, and defeated the inept Martha Coakley. (See the film "Conviction" just to see what a pompous ass she is.)

    I'm not saying they should have broken the bank to unseat Christie, but the Dems should have at least shown up.

    Just another underemployed IT professional computer geek.

    by RhodeIslandAspie on Wed Nov 06, 2013 at 07:04:50 AM PST

    •  That a "pompous ass" in Boston (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      RhodeIslandAspie, Bridge Master

      can come from Western Mass (Coakley is from North Adams) tells me she must be pretty damned full of herself.  After all, anyone from Worcester and points west is a second class citizen in the Bay State.

      •  Hey, some of my best friends are... (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        NYFM, Hockeyray, caryltoo

        She went into the race thinking she had it clinched. At least until she actually looked at some polling towards the end.

        If I had lived 10 miles to the north or west and had a dog in that fight, I would have voted for Capuano in the primary. He would have fought the race hard and would be the junior senator right now. On the other hand, I'm quite happy with the current occupant of the seat. I'm just sorry that MA has to be subjected to Scott Brown for a while.

        Just another underemployed IT professional computer geek.

        by RhodeIslandAspie on Wed Nov 06, 2013 at 07:30:21 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I'm from Springfield (5+ / 0-)

          so I know the drill and hence my joke above.  But hey the Coakley/Brown thing worked out in the end for us big time with Warren. I constantly think of my mom who passed away in the fall of 2009.  She would have happily voted for Coakley, and enthusiastically for Warren.  And the latest consolation prize is DeBlasio here in NYC.  His wife is a native of Longmeadow (yay!)- apparently one of the first AA families to move there (against a racist WASP brigade that fought them) in the early 60's.

          •  Is she a Red Sox fan? (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            rubyr, NYFM

            That would be cool. Red Sox Nation muscling in on the Big Apple.

            Just another underemployed IT professional computer geek.

            by RhodeIslandAspie on Wed Nov 06, 2013 at 07:56:12 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  ah joke, sorry to misread. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            NYFM

            have heard bitterness in exact same words many times.

          •  gotta say again, it worked for MA in (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            NYFM

            isolation. BUT it hurt our country quite a bit. I wish I could recall for sure the exact legislation but Brown stopped Obama's agenda as the 60th Republican vote in the Senate for many months. Some efforts were lost/failed completely and we live in that reality even now. We had a Dem House for part of his term.

            I can't tell if Brown's nation wide damage is on the whole worth getting Warren. Depends on how bad his damage was. I love Warren and worked on her campaign and she's been great but I hope it ends up worth it for our country. It seems to have been for MA.

            Brown got in because voters for Senate thought more about MA than for our whole country. Myself, I held my nose and voted for Coakley.

        •  remember we are still living Brown's legacy (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          NYFM

          he was tie breaking vote to stop Obama's agenda for many months. We lost momentum and some important legislation because of him that we are touched by even today.

          I too am glad though Warren won. Brown did a lot of damage to our country at large. I am surprised Dems don't hate us more for that.

          I voted for Capuano. I thought he was provincial but I liked his tenacity. He has his heart in the right place.

      •  not to anyone I know (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        NYFM

        perhaps the leaders and media act that way but I don't experience that attitude in the east from average citizens who you seem to say also participate in giving out this attitude against W. MA.

        That's not to say what you interpret or experience from average people is wrong. Our data sets are different. I see the people in the east as a whole, you see eastern MA people who have something to particularly say about Western MA to you of Western MA. I promise you that in Boston many people don't think that way. It is nothing like,say, the NY-Boston rivalry. When I think of W. MA I think "beautiful land". But I went to school in Amherst an have very fond memories of the hiking and apple picking and the rolling hills and little towns and less rushed, friendly people.

    •  This is true in state legislative races (22+ / 0-)

      all over NC.  There were 23 of 50 state senate seats (16 R, 7 D) that were uncontested by the opposition.  I the state house 50 of 120 seats (24 D, 26 R) were officially uncontested and another R seat may as well have been.  A lot of this has to do with the new-for-2010 and beyond maps that hem Democrats into a small number of highly concentrated districts (which is why despite a statewide advantage of about 1%, Dems surrendered a 3/5 majority in both houses of the legislature).  Until the NCDP is willing to challenge every seat, no matter how hopeless the race may be, they'll continue to get hammered like this.  Because the maps aren't going to change significantly until the Dems retake the General Assembly, and you can't score if you don't shoot the fucking puck.

      I'll believe corporations are people when one comes home from Afghanistan in a body bag.

      by mojo11 on Wed Nov 06, 2013 at 07:25:07 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I'm sitting here wishing I could hit the rec (4+ / 0-)

        button over and over again!  

        "Speak the TRUTH, even if your voice shakes."

        by stellaluna on Wed Nov 06, 2013 at 07:55:15 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  But you do have to have someone who will run. (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        rubyr, BlackSheep1, Chi, TheDuckManCometh

        It's probably not so easy if you are in deep red country. There's always some yahoo that will run to get their name in the paper, but obviously, you want real candidates who won't embarrass the party. My hope is that the recent self-inflicted wounds to the Republican brand continue to bleed enough to encourage some good candidates to come forward in time for 2014. Not much time left, so I hope we have a flood of candidates plunging in.

        Just another underemployed IT professional computer geek.

        by RhodeIslandAspie on Wed Nov 06, 2013 at 08:01:28 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  That is a significant consideration... (0+ / 0-)

          And believe me, there are some districts that are so very, very red they're damn near purple.  But one of those uncontested districts was Thom Tillis' district in Mecklenberg County (Charlotte).  I refuse to believe that the NCDP couldn't find a single credible Democrat to challenge the ALEC Poster Boy.  You might have trouble finding qualified candidates in places like Pender or Duplin or Bladen or Caldwell, but there's no excuse to leave a seat in Mecklenberg or Wake unchallenged.

          I'll believe corporations are people when one comes home from Afghanistan in a body bag.

          by mojo11 on Wed Nov 06, 2013 at 11:02:29 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  The lesson they'll take from Virginia: (15+ / 0-)

    Their candidate wasn't conservative enough.

    Just wait - in two or three weeks, they'll be calling him a RINO and an accomodationalist. A wimp - not a true conservative at all. No wonder he lost! How did a semi-socialist like him even win the Republican nomination at all? I mean, he's a closet liberal -- the fact that he lost proves he's a liberal !!!

    •  No - he lost 'cause he hid is conservatism (5+ / 0-)

      They won't look at the huge loss by Jackson and realize that batsh*t insanity doesn't play outside the base. They'll say, "if only he ran as a true conservative and defended those little pre-born embryos" Cooch would have won.  

      Cooch did so well, IMHO, because he appeared far more reasonable than Jackson, even though there is little, if any, daylight between them policy-wise, and because McAuliffe was an uninspiring outsider. I really didn't give McAuliffe much of a chance when the nominations were first announced, so am pleasantly surprised at the win.

      Quite frankly, we should encourage the GOPs thinking on this. When they go with their guts, nominate right-wing crazies and allow them to let their freak flags fly, Dems win (see the Senate elections 2012).

      A government that denies gay men the right to bridal registry is a fascist state - Margaret Cho

      by CPT Doom on Wed Nov 06, 2013 at 07:29:20 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Yep (6+ / 0-)

      Saw something the other day that said 25% of Republicans think Cuccinelli would lose because he was not conservative enough.

      I ponder what they actually WANT and shudder.

      I'm on a mission! http://www.dailykos.com/comments/1233352/51142428#c520 Testing the new site rules.

      by blue aardvark on Wed Nov 06, 2013 at 07:30:33 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  What I've heard the right wing talk shows (4+ / 0-)

      say is that Cuccinelli lost because the establishment GOP wanted him to lose. They didn't help him enough.

      So they're seeing it as a power struggle within the GOP.

      It's funny they were already saying this in the days before the election.

      I never thought it was going to be a runaway in VA because our voters don't usually turn out in off years. That's why I think it was so much closer than polls indicated -- because a lot of our voters did not turn out.

      So the fact that we won anyway really speaks to what a terrible candidate Cuccinelli was, especially in the eyes of women.

      All the more amazing when you consider that McAuliffe wasn't a great candidate either.

      Women do 2/3 of the world's work, receive 10% of the world's income and own 1% of the means of production.

      by LibrErica on Wed Nov 06, 2013 at 07:33:27 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Unfortunately, I am more afraid that McAuliff and (6+ / 0-)

      neo-Dems will instead take the lesson of the race's close finish as a sign that HE must become (even more) GOP-like.  

      I am praying that he doesn't live up to what I suspect he probably is--a blue-dog DINO disguised in sheep's clothing.  But, I would have voted for a yellow dog-a-saurus to keep Crazy Kooch and EeeeewwWJackson out.

      Too bad we will still most likely be stuck with an equally big rightwing nutjob for AG. I sure pray that Mark Herring may somehow pull out victorious after the provisional ballots and recount(?) have been completed.  Nut holding my breath though.

      I wonder if the GOP's determined voter PURGE may account for some of the closeness of the race and Herring's probable loss.  I'd sure be interested in finding out how the demographics turned out from that voter suppression tactic.  

      •  My dislike of TMac makes me suspicious. I admit (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        caryltoo

        his campaigning this time around advocated for many "progressive" policies that I fully support.  I hope he fights hard for those much needed jobs, healthcare, and other liberal ideals that he espoused.  I hope I am 100% wrong about my sick-stomach suspicions.  I would celebrate the need for me to apologize for being mistaken about our new governor-elect.  I am praying for his and my beloved Virginia's success in the coming years.

      •  Well, they purged about 40,000 votes. (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        awcomeon, Chi, jplanner

        It's been reported that Herring is losing by 216 votes. Given this, I would say the purge very well could have affected Herring's chances. I have to think that they found some way to purge more Dems than Repugs, otherwise, why bother? The Repugs know that the "voter fraud" accusations are drummed up BS.

        "Southern nights have you ever felt a southern night?" Allen Toussaint ~~Remember the Gulf of Mexico~~

        by rubyr on Wed Nov 06, 2013 at 08:17:45 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I agree with your assessment. The GOP must have (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          rubyr

          figured the risk of purging a few of their own supporters was far out-weighed by the probability that they would delete many more of their opponents' votes than their own.  

          With the final tallies being much closer than expected, I believe that the voter purge was successful, even if they only managed to take away enough votes to defeat Herring--they'll just make sure to purge even more Dem votes before the next elections.  The GOP never rests, whether they win or lose.

      •  He can't do very much since legislature is (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        awcomeon

        controlled by Republicans. It's mostly blocking the crap they propose.

        •  Hi, FG. Are you referring to McAuliffe when you (0+ / 0-)

          say "he can't do very much" except block proposed GOP crap?  I assume you meant TMac and not Mark Herring?

          I can never understand why it seems that when Dems are elected, they can't do very much because "their hands are tied", or they must be "bi-partisan", or they don't want to be dictators, or other reasons/excuses for maintaining the corporate status quo.  But, Repubs sure seem to have no problems  doing a heckuvalot with the the power when they get in control of these offices.  What in the blue blazes is up with those two scenarios?

          •  Yeah, him. FWIW, Republican governors (0+ / 0-)

            with Dem legislatures can't implement much of anything either. I lived in MD when Ehrlich was governor, basically nothing got done, it was all autopilot.

            •  OK, thanks. I agree with you about divided (0+ / 0-)

              government, but I still think the cut-throat nature of GOP elected officials and their constituents results in more of their back-asswards policies being enacted than the Dems'.  Lying, cheating, stealing, obstruction, and destruction seem to automatically come with the GOP turf when they gain power.  Dems--some, but not so much, IMO.  

  •  Dean's 50 state strategy (27+ / 0-)

    Dean had it right and he has been marginalized. We should be fighting for every office in every state, town, school board, dog catcher... everything.

    The problem is "the establishment" and specifically it's ability to funnel large amounts of money to the candidates of their choosing that toe the party line or to not fund certain candidates they feel aren't "worth the effort."

    Bollocks.  The solution to this is simple: Publicly funded campaigns. It solves a whole host of problems and the only downside is that your local crazy-coo-coo candidates will get more exposure. I'd happily deal with that strictly for the entertainment value and if the people decide that koo-koo-candidate should be elected then so be it. That's much more benign than the establishment corporate-sponsored candidates we get to choose from in every election these days.

    [Terrorists] are a dime a dozen, they are all over the world and for every one we lock up there will be three to take his place. --Digby

    by rabel on Wed Nov 06, 2013 at 07:06:58 AM PST

    •  It's the Democrats (9+ / 0-)

      The people who control the Democratic Party are still ashamed that they have to rely on the votes of black people, hispanics, unions, environmentalists and women.  Either they fear mobilizing these people or they don't have a clue how to do it.

      Dean was despised and marginalized, for one, because he showed that a grass roots campaign could raise money from the little folks.  That was very threatening to the Robert Rubins and Bruce Ratners among the Democrats.

      This aggression will not stand, man.

      by kaleidescope on Wed Nov 06, 2013 at 07:16:35 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I have never seen so much as one piece of (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        jan4insight, FG, TheDuckManCometh

        evidence to support this statement:

        The people who control the Democratic Party are still ashamed that they have to rely on the votes of black people, hispanics, unions, environmentalists and women.
        These people are the Democratic party. If not these people, who?

        "Southern nights have you ever felt a southern night?" Allen Toussaint ~~Remember the Gulf of Mexico~~

        by rubyr on Wed Nov 06, 2013 at 08:21:17 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  rubyr: then you've never (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          rubyr, rabel, a2nite

          heard the "backroom chatter" in a Texas election.

          We registered 8K new voters in the northwesternmost 16 counties of Texas in 2010. But many of these folk were told in their churches that if they did not vote for the Gee O Pee they and all their families would go to hell.

          Until we can overcome that bullshit proselytization somehow, we must get more help down here to shuttle voters to the polls (yes, we provided rides during EV and on E-Day in Lubbock), to turn out the vote for Dem candidates, and to show the ability to win, not just the "party flag".

          LBJ, Van Cliburn, Ike, Wendy Davis, Lady Bird, Ann Richards, Barbara Jordan, Molly Ivins, Sully Sullenburger, Drew Brees: Texas is NO Bush League!

          by BlackSheep1 on Wed Nov 06, 2013 at 09:05:47 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I understand the church thing, but are you saying (0+ / 0-)

            that the Dems in the backrooms in Tx. were saying (or commonly say) that they are ashamed to have to rely on the votes of black people, hispanics, unions, environmentalists and women?

            If so, I am gobsmacked. That makes not a lick of sense to me.
            Who do they want to vote for them? Old white men?

            "Southern nights have you ever felt a southern night?" Allen Toussaint ~~Remember the Gulf of Mexico~~

            by rubyr on Wed Nov 06, 2013 at 10:44:04 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  not vote for -- fund campaigns for (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              rabel, rubyr, a2nite

              because, hard as this is to wrap my head around, apparently the real money all belongs to old white guys. The votes evidently are not as big a deal as the dollars, somehow.

              Bill White had every major paper in Texas endorse him (and a lot of small-town ones, too), and he had endorsements from oil guys (including but not limited by any means to DKos / Gulf Watchers' own eljefebob). Mayors were for Bill White from Texline to Laredo ... and he was ahead in the polls on Sunday before the election, and won the early voting big.

              Li'l Ricky smugly said papers are old-fashioned and irrelevant.

              Li'l Ricky's big-money sugar-daddies ponied up multimillions on Friday-Monday for his campaign coffers.

              Li'l Ricky got re-elected.

              Back when the state was laying out $9,900 a month for his rental palace in a gated community over close to Austin's Town Lake, after the under-renovation Governor's Mansion was torched (the arsonist was videotaped but has still not been caught). Back when the state was laying off Public Health personnel and DPS personnel. Back when the State was so broke the Lege stole money from the schools to fund the contracts with Li'l Ricky's overseas buds building (and converting US-taxpayer-funded highways to) toll roads.
              Back when we were losing state parks to land developers 'cause Li'l Ricky's cronies wanted to profit from the sales.

              LBJ, Van Cliburn, Ike, Wendy Davis, Lady Bird, Ann Richards, Barbara Jordan, Molly Ivins, Sully Sullenburger, Drew Brees: Texas is NO Bush League!

              by BlackSheep1 on Wed Nov 06, 2013 at 11:07:06 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

      •  Money from little folks is always threatening to (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        rabel

        the corporate-owned politicians of any party.  The corporations cannot continue to own the Democratic party if the people's will is allowed to be expressed.

        The Clintons, the Third Way, the DLC and many more of the Democratic party 'leadership' are fully in the pocket of corporate interests over those of regular, everyday folks.

        Prior to 1992 and Clinton's election, the DNC ran a 50 state program.  Even a few hundred thousand dollars made huge differences in small states.

        Take Kansas.  That's where I was in 1992 and prior. Every two year and four year election, the national party would provide around $500,000 or so (roughly) for GOTV and state organizing.  

        And guess what?  The Democrats controlled the legislature as they had for over 40 years or more. The governorship flipped back and forth from time to time, but the Republican candidates were fairly "normal" human beings.

        In 1992, the Clintons ran on the "winnable states strategy" and yanked practically all national money from Kansas. It's a small state with mostly small interests (aside from the Koch brothers' home and HQ). The D state party didn't expect to be abandoned and had little time to even try to raise the money they needed.

        As a result of no dollars for GOTV, advertising, and organizing, dozens upon dozens of long-standing state Democratic representatives and senators lost their seats in narrow races with Republicans.

        And Republicans have held the legislature ever since, splitting up liberal areas like Lawrence/Douglas County, Wichita/Sedgwick County, even Hays and Topeka into gerrymandered districts.

        Because of Clinton's 1992 NON-50 state strategy, Kansas and many other small states flipped over to the Republican party and have remained there ever since.  TWENTY plus years of damage due to that campaign decision.

        There's no way that spending a little money in all those small states would have hurt the Clinton campaign so bad, but frankly, they just didn't care.  

        And it came back to bite his sorry philandering ass in the Impeachment hearings. That vote would never have occurred if they'd supported the little states as the Democratic party USED TO DO.

        "The law is meant to be my servant and not my master, still less my torturer and my murderer." -- James Baldwin. July 11, 1966.

        by YucatanMan on Wed Nov 06, 2013 at 10:55:36 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  rabel: preach it! I watched Bill White (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      rabel

      in Texas (worked in the campaign office 'cause I was / am chronically cash-challenged) in 2010.

      It gave me a violently hostile impression of the DLC/DNC and the "third way / centrist" Dems generally -- the national party uses Texas as an ATM but won't even try to help the candidates who run, and run hard, against jackholes like Randy (Baby Killer! The Park Service should be ashamed!) Neugebauer or Louis Gohmert or Pete (Not in Kansas now) Sessions. We get good candidates -- Chris Bell, Rick Noriega, Bill White -- and ZE-RO help from the so-called "Blue States," and who winds up winning those elections?

      Gohmert.
      Sessions.
      Neugebauer.

      Cornyn.
      Cruz.

      LBJ, Van Cliburn, Ike, Wendy Davis, Lady Bird, Ann Richards, Barbara Jordan, Molly Ivins, Sully Sullenburger, Drew Brees: Texas is NO Bush League!

      by BlackSheep1 on Wed Nov 06, 2013 at 09:02:48 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Democrat to democrat: (5+ / 0-)

    "After you."  "No, no, please, after YOU."  "Oh, no, please, after you." "I couldn't. Please, after YOU."  And on, and on, and on.

    Republican to everyone:
    "Me first."  "No, ME first."  "Out of my way, me first."  

    etc.

    11:11 being mindful and keepin' it real

    by Raggedy Ann on Wed Nov 06, 2013 at 07:09:38 AM PST

  •  As I've remarked in comments before (12+ / 0-)

    one progressive/Democratic trait that drives me batty is our tendency to go all to pieces when an outcome (e.g., with the ACA in 2010), isn't 100% of what we wanted. Within hours of when Barack Obama signed this legislation, there were progressives lined up to pronounce it a "failure" because it wasn't single-payer. Never mind that it was the first major healthcare overhaul in my memory, and I'm no kid. Never mind that it introduced rhetoric about "universal healthcare" into the national discussion about healthcare, paving the way for other enhancements to healthcare delivery in coming years. Supposedly, we "blew" our one big chance at healthcare reform.

    People, Republicans, unlike us, understand playing for the long term. It's the reason they've been so successful at advancing their aims legislatively and electorally in recent decades. When a "victory" is only 30% of what they wanted, or only 10%, they work with that. They get right back up and try again. Next time around, they get 50%. And so on.

    It's the habit of losers, this tendency of ours to lose it completely when outcomes aren't exactly as we'd hoped. It might have been suitable 30-30 years ago, but we're ready for more.

    It's here they got the range/ and the machinery for change/ and it's here they got the spiritual thirst. --Leonard Cohen

    by karmsy on Wed Nov 06, 2013 at 07:11:48 AM PST

    •  Actually, several of us were lined up way before (4+ / 0-)

      Barack Obama signed this legislation.  I see it as the Democrats constant reasoning that something is better than nothing.

      I do not have a problem with compromise if it is done in good faith but that is not what we have here.  True good faith would have been a negotiation between the progressive stance of single payer and the conservative stance of free market.  The result would have been something more like the public option.  Instead, single payer was immediately taken off the table (or rather never even allowed to be mentioned in the first place) and public option was quickly removed as well.  What we ended up with was championing a republican proposal as a progressive model and branded as socialists for proposing a communist health care system that was actually a free market solution.

      The same thing is happening in elections.  Republicans run their rightwing lunatics and the Democrats know that half the people won't vote for these crazy people so they run a conservadem hoping to pick up the remaining rational conservatives left somewhat near the middle.  It works and they win but what are they left with? Terry McAuliffe and all the other conservadems.

      "Perhaps the sentiments contained in the following pages, are not YET sufficiently fashionable to procure them general favour..."

      by Buckeye Nut Schell on Wed Nov 06, 2013 at 07:42:28 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  All fair enough. (7+ / 0-)

        The challenge: can you pick where we left off and keep right on going, not pronouncing these outcomes as "failures" but as stepping-stones?

        That's fairly new territory for progressives right there.

        It's here they got the range/ and the machinery for change/ and it's here they got the spiritual thirst. --Leonard Cohen

        by karmsy on Wed Nov 06, 2013 at 07:50:16 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Okay, I accept the challenge. (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          karmsy, paulex, YucatanMan

          I whole heartedly admit that the ACA is better than nothing.  I like several of the provisions and indeed it is a stepping stone towards the right direction.

          However, why did we start the negotiation in the middle?  Why wouldn't we at least fight for the ability to negotiate drug prices?  Why wouldn't we at least force the Republicans to negotiate down to this point so we could share the responsibility?  This was their proposal in 1994.  How can anyone call it a democratic victory that we succeeding in implementing their proposal?  Just because they have moved so far to the right that they now disown it as communism does not suddenly make it a progressive policy.

          My challenge is for you to see that winning elections by having conservatives run as a Democrat is not the same thing as winning.  I want someone who will fight for a truly progressive tomorrow and just because someone who has a (D) in front of their name gets the most votes, it does not mean that WE won the election.

          "Perhaps the sentiments contained in the following pages, are not YET sufficiently fashionable to procure them general favour..."

          by Buckeye Nut Schell on Wed Nov 06, 2013 at 08:20:33 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Thing is... (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            karmsy

            ...though I see your point, if the only thing you have to say is that voting for conservative Democrats is not winning, then you just lost a ton of votes. Most people aren't actually interested in politics, but they do like to feel like they picked a winner or are at least part of the winning side.

            Time is of no account with great thoughts, which are as fresh to-day as when they first passed through their authors' minds ages ago. - Samuel Smiles

            by moviemeister76 on Wed Nov 06, 2013 at 08:45:14 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  That is why we are where we are... (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              karmsy, YucatanMan

              We are so concerned about winning, we have forgotten what we are fighting for.

              Would you rather lose with a truly progressive candidate or win with a blue dog?

              I don't see the point in winning an election with someone who is not going to fight for what I believe in.  I would rather fight for what I believe in and lose.  At least I if I did win, I would be winning something.

              "Perhaps the sentiments contained in the following pages, are not YET sufficiently fashionable to procure them general favour..."

              by Buckeye Nut Schell on Wed Nov 06, 2013 at 09:27:35 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Are you kidding me? (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                karmsy, mconvente

                I would much rather win with a Blue Dog if that's my only damn choice. I know this for a FACT. I live in NC, a state which used to be made up of primarily Blue Dog Democrats. Now we are controlled by the Republicans. The damage has been catastrophic, and we are less than a year in!

                The real fight you are talking about is at the primary level. That is where you duke it out for a true progressive candidate. But if the progressive candidate loses, then you fight like hell to make sure the Republican doesn't win because, these days, the results of those still willing to even be called a Republican winning an election are literally dangerous.

                Time is of no account with great thoughts, which are as fresh to-day as when they first passed through their authors' minds ages ago. - Samuel Smiles

                by moviemeister76 on Wed Nov 06, 2013 at 09:35:01 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Okay, why are Republicans winning? (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  karmsy, YucatanMan

                  Could it be that most of the democrats don't even see a difference anymore so they are not getting out the vote?

                  Do you think that when a they see a blue dem democrat throwing them under the bus, voting against their values and thumbing their noses at the people who elected them makes them want to get out the vote?  Do they energize their base?   Maybe if we got rid of the logic that we need conservadems in red areas, maybe we would find out the the democrats in those would actually come out to vote for someone that would actually support them back.

                  I have held my nose and voted too many times for blue dogs in the past and I hate it.  I am sick of voting against people.  I want to vote for someone.  I sympathize with the political situation you currently find yourself.  It is like the victim of spousal abuse wishing they had their old spouse back that didn't beat them as badly as the new spouse.  It's better not to be beaten at all and that is what is worth fighting for.

                  "Perhaps the sentiments contained in the following pages, are not YET sufficiently fashionable to procure them general favour..."

                  by Buckeye Nut Schell on Wed Nov 06, 2013 at 09:50:21 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  They won because of money and laziness (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    mconvente, jan4insight

                    And because of Democrats like you who stayed at home because they actually believed there was no difference between the Democratic Party and the Republican Party. Thing is, now we fucking know that there sure as hell is a big difference between the two. So for you to take what has happened in North Carolina and to wish it on your own state is astounding. After having visible evidence of what happens if you just stay at home, STILL you say people should just not vote if their only option is a Blue Dog.

                    Time is of no account with great thoughts, which are as fresh to-day as when they first passed through their authors' minds ages ago. - Samuel Smiles

                    by moviemeister76 on Wed Nov 06, 2013 at 10:15:01 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  I see your point, but (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      Buckeye Nut Schell

                      I'm not really sure this is a fair paraphrase of Buckeye's intent:

                      After having visible evidence of what happens if you just stay at home, STILL you say people should just not vote if their only option is a Blue Dog.
                      In arguing for ideals, I don't see him/her arguing against realism.

                      It's here they got the range/ and the machinery for change/ and it's here they got the spiritual thirst. --Leonard Cohen

                      by karmsy on Wed Nov 06, 2013 at 10:40:07 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Thank you Karmsy... (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        karmsy

                        That is exactly my point.  I would pick the spouse who beats me less every time but I am not going to enthusiastically promote the lesser of evils.  That is reality.

                        Instead of the logic that we HAVE to run a blue dog in a red area in order to be competitive, how about we run a progressive and fight for him or her?  How about the party support who they want instead of who they think can win.  moviemiester made the point that this is an argument for the primaries and I agree but I am sick of the Democratic party counting on my vote because they know I am going to vote against the evil Republican.  Earn my vote by supporting my beliefs.  Don't tell me I have to vote for someone just because they have a (D) next to their name.  

                        Look at how it worked out when we supposedly had a super majority in the Senate when President Obama was elected.  Blue Dogs like Leiberman held the Senate hostage and caused gridlock long enough for the Republicans to take back the house.  We keep hearing how we had a super majority but did we really?  We had a group of conservadems masquerading as Democrats that now make it seem as if we did not do anything when we had the opportunity.

                        If we pick someone who is going to vote against our values, then we have already lost.  I am not saying to support the Republican and I am not saying not to vote.  I am saying I am sick of doing it and I am not surprised that a lot of people stay at home because they feel like, "Why bother".

                        I live in an ultra conservative part of Kentucky and it is the prevailing logic here that the only person who can win is a conservative Democrat.  The party and many of the Democrats only vote for who they think can win.  I get to choose between what would have been considered a Republican ten years ago and a tea party enthusiast.  I don't like not having anyone to vote for and I am not going to be happy just because nutjob Sr. lost and nutjob jr. gets to be in charge for the next few years.

                        "Perhaps the sentiments contained in the following pages, are not YET sufficiently fashionable to procure them general favour..."

                        by Buckeye Nut Schell on Wed Nov 06, 2013 at 11:46:34 AM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  Sure, I agree with everything. (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          Buckeye Nut Schell

                          What I was responding to, and what I see other comments in this thread as responding to, is the promotion of an attitude of "it has to be perfect to count." In politics, disillusionment with weak Dems and progressives is completely understandable, but it's also dangerous. Your remarks might be seen as justifying "purity" to the cost of realism, though I don't believe you really are.

                          I live in one of these "hip" urban areas with most residents way younger than I am. A while ago, after an election, I saw a handbill on a light-post that raised my hackles. It said something to the effect of, "No politician cares about your interests as much as their own career." I suspect the flier was being used to justify "staying home on election day" because "the whole electoral process was hopelessly corrupt," sort of a hipper-than-thou protest. It is so wrong and so destructive. This is the kind of thing I want to shake a young person by the shoulders over.  

                          It's here they got the range/ and the machinery for change/ and it's here they got the spiritual thirst. --Leonard Cohen

                          by karmsy on Wed Nov 06, 2013 at 12:21:25 PM PST

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  Absolutely... (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            karmsy

                            I encourage my daughters to get out the vote at their respective universities.  I realize my point is walking a thin line on issue and I agree, not voting is not the answer.

                            This thread started because the comment was made about people lining up to condemn ACA the moment it was signed because it was not perfect.  I was in line before it was signed because it could have been a lot better and it is not the Republican's fault that it wasn't.  It was our fault, we shot for the middle right from the get go.  We tend to do that a lot these days and one area in which we have become extraordinarily proficient at doing so is in elections.  

                            If we continue to shoot for the middle just to increase our chance of winning then we are going to have a lot of people fighting half-assed for kinda-sorta what they want against a lot of conservative fighting for exactly what they want.  The Republicans are going to show up more enthusiastically and the liberals are going to kinda show up, maybe, because nobody is going to be fighting for what we really want.

                            Thank you Karmsy for this conversation.  I appreciate your wise words and your kind delivery of them.

                            "Perhaps the sentiments contained in the following pages, are not YET sufficiently fashionable to procure them general favour..."

                            by Buckeye Nut Schell on Wed Nov 06, 2013 at 12:59:01 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

    •  It is a piss poor substitute for what we really (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      paulex, YucatanMan

      needed, which is why we are here trying to do damage control for a wishy washy piece of shit that is rolling out.

      Sure it is better than nothing, but if you keep dragging that skeleton out and shaking it, it loses its effect.

      Yeah, I get it, we are weak and want ponies and shit.

      "I watch Fox News for my comedy, and Comedy Central for my news." - Facebook Group

      by Sychotic1 on Wed Nov 06, 2013 at 08:11:18 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  When Dems turn out, we win (9+ / 0-)

    The more positive message from this election is that when our side votes, we outnumber their side and we win.  We have a majority in number but we aren't as fervent as they are.  We turned out at a level seen in the presidential election year level.  If we turned out like we normally do in an off-year election, we would have lost.  What was unusual was we showed up and they showed up.  They ALWAYS show up.  Somehow we need to combine a 50 state strategy with the GOTV, grassroots enthusiasm the fundies have.  Once we start doing that, we win even in a purple state.  

    Mmmmm. Sprinkles. - H.J. Simpson.

    by ten canvassers on Wed Nov 06, 2013 at 07:14:00 AM PST

    •  On a federal or state wide level, you're right. (4+ / 0-)

      But here in NC in 2012 Dems turned out fully 1% more than Reps statewide and we STILL got hammered in legislative and Congressional races.  And then there was McCrony.  FSM knows how bad things had to be for that abomination to happen.  Unfortunately, Dems here tend to "vote the man not the party" and the Dem running for the governor's mansion was well and truly overmatched.  This was not entirely his fault, but McCrony could not have won the margin he did without a lot of fence jumping by NC Dems.

      I'll believe corporations are people when one comes home from Afghanistan in a body bag.

      by mojo11 on Wed Nov 06, 2013 at 07:29:13 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  To be fair the redrawn districts contributed (4+ / 0-)

        mightily to that.  The Dem party here in NC was complacent and disorganized.  Art Pope and the Koch brothers saw that and saw an opportunity.  McCrory lied.  He hid his true nature.  We've got to do a better job of convincing people that there are no longer any moderate Republicans.  That is going to be our number one task with Christie.

        "Speak the TRUTH, even if your voice shakes."

        by stellaluna on Wed Nov 06, 2013 at 08:00:31 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  And I think we're well on our way (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          stellaluna

          Sure, a lot of Republicans ran uncontested in NC, as usual, but both the recent elections in Wake County and the one last night also saw the return of Democrats to some key local positions. And, man, that Fayetteville race for mayor was close! I never thought a Democrat would even have a chance in that town right now.

          Time is of no account with great thoughts, which are as fresh to-day as when they first passed through their authors' minds ages ago. - Samuel Smiles

          by moviemeister76 on Wed Nov 06, 2013 at 08:48:16 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Fayetteville is a strange creature (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            moviemeister76

            It's easy to think it would be deep red because of Ft. Bragg, but the military personnel are mostly non-residents so they don't have much of an effect on the state/local races.  Fayetteville itself has a heavy minority population, so the demographics favor a Democrat, but once you get outside the city limits all bets are off.  A progressive Dem might struggle there, which is why Mike McIntyre is the best the NCDP could do for that district (which also includes several other deep red counties).  McIntyre is as close to the DINO prototype as you're likely to find, and even then he only squeaked out a runoff win in 2012.

            As for McCrony lying about his true nature, I'm not sure he HAS a true nature.  What he's using as a substitute as governor is Art Pope's true nature.  He's a total tool in every sense of the word, but prevailing sentiment seems to suggest that the voting public is onto him.  Even in his own party voters are getting disgusted, so look for that to be corrected in 2016.  Especially if Roy Cooper takes up the challenge.  Those two really REALLY don't like each other, so it should be an entertaining contest that ends with Cooper kicking McCrony's ass all the way back to Charlotte.

            I'll believe corporations are people when one comes home from Afghanistan in a body bag.

            by mojo11 on Wed Nov 06, 2013 at 10:51:44 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

        •  Christie is far from a moderate and I cringe (0+ / 0-)

          when the media yapigentisia (to steal a great new word from Crashing Vor's diary) say that he is. He is very right wing, not to mention hypocritical as well. There were many, many things the DNC could have hit him with had they decided to back Buono rather than sitting it out. It was, if nothing else, an opportunity to begin weakening Christie's image for 2016.

          It's also rather shocking how many dems and dem-leaning indys must have voted for Christie because exit polls that asked voters whether they'd favor Hillary or Christie in 2016 showed Clinton winning that matchup.

          •  I see Christie as Romenybot 2.0 (0+ / 0-)

            but with more of a personality. Which is to say, he has one.  But as long as Rinse-O is running the show, he's going to be hamstrung by his platform.  He'll have the same problem RMoney® did, having to tack back to the center in the general election after going full-on RWNJ to survive the primaries.

            Scariest thing about Christie is that he might have mass appeal among the blue collar voters, especially in the Midwest and the redder districts of the Northeast.  But if he can't swing the Deep South (possible since he is a Yankee after all) his chances get dramatically worse.

            I'll believe corporations are people when one comes home from Afghanistan in a body bag.

            by mojo11 on Wed Nov 06, 2013 at 10:57:56 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Agree with "with more of a personality" (0+ / 1-)
              Recommended by:
              Hidden by:
              Heavy Mettle

              if by that you mean "he screams at teachers" instead of "wants to fire Big Bird."

              Sadly, wanting to fire Big Bird was somehow easier for us to make a meme out of.

              "I don't love writing, but I love having written" ~ Dorothy Parker // Visit my Handmade Gallery on Zibbet

              by jan4insight on Wed Nov 06, 2013 at 11:48:11 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Well... Big Bird notwithstanding (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                jan4insight

                it would be difficult to have LESS of a personality than RMoneyBot 1.0®.  A "xeno with a toast family"*.

                *(to avoid Randian accusations) Michael Constantine, My Big Fat Greek Wedding

                I'll believe corporations are people when one comes home from Afghanistan in a body bag.

                by mojo11 on Wed Nov 06, 2013 at 12:07:48 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

  •  Dems only get bloody if they think they'll win (6+ / 0-)

    I think it was Chris Rock who said the Democrats want to win the boxing match but don't want to take a punch to do it.
    Saw this in our own local elections last night. Republican incumbent left office, they put up a popular, respected well-liked council member who pledged to maintain the status quo.
    Most people in town don't like the status quo, but instead of coming out they just didn't vote. Low turnout led to a 3-1 margin blowout.
    And in the face of a formidable opponent and a long shot at winning the local Dems did nothing. They ran a decent candidate but most of the local committee sat on their hands. No effort if they weren't guaranteed at least a 50-50 chance of winning.
    Becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy after a while.

    Blue is blue and must be that. But yellow is none the worse for it - Edith Sidebottom

    by kenwards on Wed Nov 06, 2013 at 07:16:32 AM PST

  •  The Teanuts Are Steamed (3+ / 0-)

    So help me FSM, this is an unaltered FReeper post:

    I will NEVER vote for a candidate who doesn’t regularly fellate Tea Party leadership.

    NEVAR.

    A few more pass-the-popcorn quotes from the same thread:
    Next stop—GOP primaries. Let’s go after the same GOPers who wouldn’t help Cooch.
    To Hell with the GOP-e’s reaction. Vote out the bastards in 2014!
    It’s in the book DOUBLE DOWN that Christie told Romney that Newt “is a joke”. Then tonight on TV Newt was talking up Christie and how he’s electable. I’ll never vote for another gopE no matter what. In fact, I can’t wait to not vote for them. Why should I stand up for them when they won’t stand up for themselves?

    On the Internet, nobody knows if you're a dog... but everybody knows if you're a jackass.

    by stevemb on Wed Nov 06, 2013 at 07:16:51 AM PST

  •  Agree. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Buckeye Nut Schell, Sychotic1

    But it's not just the R's.  It's Americans.  Low info voters who apparently enjoy reality tv moreso than reality itself.

    The more pathetic and brutal the entertainment is the better.  

    Dirty laundry is nothing anymore.  The people want blood and guts - all the while being offended by breasts. Violence is King in the USA.  Cruelty wins.  There is no civility anymore.  

    Lazy, Ignorant, Violent, Sadistic.  You can't reason or even hammer reality into those traits.

    Yes the Republicans feed into the fear and hate of my country but the appetite for the fear and hate is the problem.  

    In this country, we are watching people die from lack of basic rights - food, shelter, medicine.... and we Americans are not outraged.  Our politicians are outrageous, some are even criminal (in my mind) - but there's a complete lack of justice in this country so the lying, hypocrisy and crimes against humanity will continue.  

    I live in complete TERROR of the police in my area because my son is developmentally disabled and I KNOW there is nothing we could do if they attack or kill our son because that is just how things go in good old America nowadays.  Boots on the throat.  We see the crimes going on every day and still nothing gets accomplished or fixed.  

    Everything now requires a national petition just to get some crimes out into the spotlight.  

    I do not know why Democrats don't fight back as loudly as the Republicans.  Not sure it's even the "Messaging" anymore  - it might just be that the "Masses" here are truly despicable.

    Off to go read about some more mass shootings in America.  And nothing will get resolved on that issue either.  

    America is not moving forward.   We are falling off some cliff.  

    America has lost it's humanity.  

    "Love One Another" ~ George Harrison

    by Damnit Janet on Wed Nov 06, 2013 at 07:17:27 AM PST

    •  It is because the 1% are united and we are not... (0+ / 0-)

      They are not the ones falling off the cliff, they are pushing the 99% off of it so they have more room to graze off the fertile pastures.

      I like your analogy to a reality TV show.  We are watching the crazy slap stick comedy of what the 1% want us to see while they take food out of the mouths of children and nobody cares.  Our lack of concern simply emboldens them for their next round of, "How-fucking-cruel-can-we-and-get-away-with-it" game show where the 1%ers wearing the red tries to out do their opponents wearing blue ties in destroying America.

      At least we elect people who SAY they care about our social issues.  Woohoo!

      "Perhaps the sentiments contained in the following pages, are not YET sufficiently fashionable to procure them general favour..."

      by Buckeye Nut Schell on Wed Nov 06, 2013 at 08:03:02 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Republicans won an important ballot initiative... (5+ / 0-)

    in my home town by just under 200 votes. It seemed like the Democrats were poised to win, but apparently didn't show up to vote. There was no line at the polling place.  Last year I had to wait almost 20 minutes to vote for President Obama.

    If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

    by HairyTrueMan on Wed Nov 06, 2013 at 07:23:28 AM PST

  •  Not sure any of it would have mattered (6+ / 0-)

    It's a cult of personality here in my home state of NJ.  His lack of coat tails is proof.  People voted for Tony Soprano.  "Who cares if he's an anti-worker/women/teacher/LGBT/rational drug policy(yet police erasing) Cheney disciple.  He's a loud mouth bullying thug!  Sign me up!" They said as they voted Democratic on every other race.  61% of my fellows voted to raise the minimum wage in opposition to his veto.  

    I think the best thing to happen yesterday was Cuccinelli freaking everyone out.  On both sides.  It keeps us on our toes and keeps the crazies relevant.

  •  In my non-NJ county, no contested race went to (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Buckeye Nut Schell, LeighAnn

    Democrats.

    We had robo-calls and appearances by all the big Democratic names and still didn't win.

    Yet, I donated, spoke to peers in the neighborhood, etc. and didn't hide who I thought was best to vote for.  Even more unsettling, it was my area of the county that turned out most red, and religious bias in this election was involved, as well.

    We're going to have the same problems as before with the added twist of a libertarian+authoritarian supervisor who will cause more pain than the prior levels of Republican-led corruption caused.  The winner ran under an "independent" label as if they were a breath of fair, rational thinking compared to the openly establishment candidates - it was an easy lie and contrasted markedly with the Democrat (and other Republican) in the race.

    This is all within a state that's otherwise mostly blue.

    So, even doing the right thing in terms of candidate support won't win us races.  But, we still need to try - this is something we can capitalize on in the next cycle for these same offices, pointing to how the Republican+Independent claims were simply more lies that led to further misery, while Democrats remain consistent in their fair, constructive messages and policy planks.  We can use the familiarity with our positions in this loss to build upon when reality sets in for voters, essentially.

    NJ Democratic machine is generally corrupt and useless at times like these - they don't care about the larger picture for the state, so much as their individual incomes, IMHO.

    "So, please stay where you are. Don't move and don't panic. Don't take off your shoes! Jobs is on the way."

    by wader on Wed Nov 06, 2013 at 07:28:27 AM PST

  •  The GOP has outsourced a lot of their (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    awcomeon

    GOTV operation to the scammers.

    The same people who send endless emails asking for money will deign to encourage you to vote.

    BTW, I got on Buono's mailing list and received regular requests for $ and support.

    I'm on a mission! http://www.dailykos.com/comments/1233352/51142428#c520 Testing the new site rules.

    by blue aardvark on Wed Nov 06, 2013 at 07:28:49 AM PST

  •  And the Dems curling up creates a (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Buckeye Nut Schell, BlackSheep1

    larger image for Christie, who would now be the frontrunner for Presidential candidate from the right. Talk about feeding your enemies.

  •  abject fear mutated into rabid hatred (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Buckeye Nut Schell, Sychotic1

    will get someone to the polls every time! (and it doesn't hurt when "tea jesus" gives you a little kick in the pants on election day!)

    Sarah Palin is a disgusting racist pig.

    by memofromturner on Wed Nov 06, 2013 at 07:39:57 AM PST

  •  some of that 'fighting hard' is money (0+ / 0-)

    they pay a lot for staff that dems probably depend on volunteering or don't have at all- in their think tanks and media operations, for example.

    This is a list of 76 universities for Rush Limbaugh that endorse global warming denial, racism, sexism, and GOP lies by broadcasting sports on over 170 Limbaugh radio stations.

    by certainot on Wed Nov 06, 2013 at 08:11:57 AM PST

  •  Basically, to make enormous strides in returning (10+ / 0-)

    this country to sanity, the Democrats have to do ONE thing.
    Vote. That's it. If all Dems voted for Dems, we would be in power all over the place. This is especially true in Texas.  

    "Southern nights have you ever felt a southern night?" Allen Toussaint ~~Remember the Gulf of Mexico~~

    by rubyr on Wed Nov 06, 2013 at 08:24:26 AM PST

    •  ^^^ THIS ^^^ and fwiw (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      BlackSheep1, caryltoo, rubyr

      I think if we actually showed up and voted, we might start getting better candidates and policies.

      I mean, it's worth a try. This business of waiting for the perfect candidate who's going to "deserve" or "earn" votes sure ain't working.

      Imnsho.

      "I don't love writing, but I love having written" ~ Dorothy Parker // Visit my Handmade Gallery on Zibbet

      by jan4insight on Wed Nov 06, 2013 at 09:09:47 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yep. The energy of all Dems voting could create (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        jan4insight

        a whole new dynamic in which progressivism could thrive, but two things we can count on from the Democratic party and Dem voters:

        1. They are too lazy, or something else, to vote.

        2. They eat their own.

        It makes me so sad.

        "Southern nights have you ever felt a southern night?" Allen Toussaint ~~Remember the Gulf of Mexico~~

        by rubyr on Wed Nov 06, 2013 at 10:46:54 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  You raise a great point (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jan4insight

    about our need to win by determined effort and not by default. Besides the obvious strategic value of that approach, we even have the country's demographic shifts putting wind in our sails, so why not go full speed ahead?

    I also don't relish much in the GOP civil war talk, because there was a lot of that going on pre-2010 too. I think we should always follow the sage advice of Han Solo: "Don't get cocky."

    On the flip side, my anecdotal experience leads me to believe that our team is finding our swagger and getting a little more aggressive, even if slowly. I'm optimistic, even if I'd prefer a more rapid improvement.

    But in the end, you're still right on:

    We should be more like you.  Not on policy, but certainly in the seriousness and dedication we bring to the game.
  •  Also, I've noticed (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jan4insight, BlackSheep1, choochmac

    Despite plenty of moaning and hair pulling before an election R's usually turn out and vote for their candidate even when the complaining seems like they wouldn't.  They line right up.  It happens regardless of the outcome polls indicate, too.

    All the TP bitching about someone not being RW enough doesn't usually keep them home.  They understand that not showing up is as good as a vote for the opponent.

  •  A-f*&king-men. eom (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jan4insight

    "No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money." -- JC, Matthew 6:24

    by Chi on Wed Nov 06, 2013 at 09:20:37 AM PST

  •  If we could only figure out how to get Democratic (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jan4insight

    voters to believe that they needed to vote every election because their life depended on it, like Republicans do.

    "Harass us, because we really do pay attention. Look at who's on the ballot, and vote for the candidate you agree with the most. The next time, you get better choices." - Barney Frank

    by anonevent on Wed Nov 06, 2013 at 09:45:42 AM PST

  •  The right always has lockstep solidarity... (0+ / 0-)

    ...when election day rolls around.  

  •  GOPers fight in politics foaming at the mouth (0+ / 0-)
  •  You gotta hand it to them. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Jerry056

    They know how to play hardball.  They aren't afraid to throw spitters and flaunt rules.  They are tough sons of bitches that will not go quietly.  And very largely, they have the traditional media as their allies.  

  •  Well, it's how the national prty has treated Texas (0+ / 0-)

    for quite some time.  ATM, but no help when there's a close race, and often any race. Given up before it starts, "why bother?"

    This lets some of the GOP reps, like my Pete "Taliban" Sessions, TX-32, win for NINE TERMS with little to no effort or money expended (except once against Martin Frost in 2004).

    Welcome to the club.

    I'm part of the "bedwetting bunch of website Democrat base people (DKos)." - Rush Limbaugh, 10/16/2012 Torture is Wrong! We live near W so you don't have to. Send love.

    by tom 47 on Wed Nov 06, 2013 at 10:38:13 AM PST

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