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Candy in a gold wrapper
Hey, guys: That's not a piece of gold. It's candy, and you've got a sugar high.
Politico reports the news:
[A]s the Obamacare rollout gets worse with each passing day, Speaker John Boehner and his House GOP colleagues are being handed political gold — and they think they’ve figured out a way to avoid screwing it up.

The Obamacare playbook, as described by several high-level House GOP aides and lawmakers, includes lots of committee oversight, some targeted legislation and lots of rhetoric. But there will be no more votes to defund or repeal Obamacare — the issue that led to the disastrous 16-day government shutdown — the GOP leadership says. At some point, top Republicans say, there might be a vote to delay the law for a year. [...]

Rep. Steve Stivers (R-Ohio) neatly encapsulated the party’s emerging strategy: “We should be just like a doctor and do no harm.”

“Obamacare is the gift that keeps on giving,” a senior House aide said on condition of anonymity. “We just need to keep out of the way.”

Politico reports that the GOP plan "is working beautifully." Not only that, says Politico, but "political fallout from the shutdown has all but disappeared" while Boehner has simultaneously killed immigration reform.

Now, to be fair to Politico, even they acknowledge the obvious: Republicans could easily be overconfident. For example:

Of course, it’s early in the overhaul’s life span, and the political fortunes of both Democrats and the GOP can change rapidly. The Obamacare website could be repaired, allowing tens of thousands of Americans to begin signing up. Obama can come up with some tweak that solves all of these issues. And Republicans can end up on the losing side again in January, when they have to vote to keep the government open, or in the spring, when they need to raise the debt ceiling.
But even that doesn't go far enough. Republicans have bet everything on being the anti-Obamacare party. That's why the shut the government down, and they are explicitly rooting for its failure now. But there's a huge difference between a rocky rollout and the failure of Obamacare. One year from now, if Obamacare hasn't given more people access to quality, affordable health insurance than have it today, then Republicans will be able to say that it's failed.

But if Obamacare succeeds in its mission—giving additional security to people who already have insurance, and covering people who don't already have insurance with new options that they can afford—then it'll be Republicans in trouble, because at that point, calling for the repeal of Obamacare will sound like calling for the repeal of Medicare or Medicaid.

It's not surprising that Republicans are giddy today. After all, even after the polls closed in 2012, they still thought Romney was on the cusp of victory. The fact that the headlines aren't great for Obamacare right now might make them think they've found political gold, but what they've really found is a political sugar high. And as long as the Obama administration is able to get the implementation of Obamacare back on track, the sugar high will quickly fade.

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Comment Preferences

  •  But it's "Fool's Gold" because now that (17+ / 0-)

    the American public has learned that there IS such a possibility as:

    --affordable health care
    --no lifetime caps
    --children on parents' plans until age 26
    --no pre-existing conditions ban
    --mandatory preventive care
    They are not going to roll back to their "do nothin" plan.

    In fact, I'd put my money on that fact that IF Obamacare fails, we're going to have single payer and cut these greedy bastards out of the equation PERIOD.

    Separation of Church and State AND Corporation

    by Einsteinia on Thu Nov 14, 2013 at 02:20:29 PM PST

    •  Wow...really? (6+ / 0-)
      IF Obamacare fails, we're going to have single payer and cut these greedy bastards out of the equation PERIOD.
      Politically, the Democratic Party - for reasons unknown - went ALL-IN on Obamacare. If it fails, we're going to have SQUAT when the GOP wins the next several election cycles.

      The irony in all this is, we could have had expansions of already in-place, already popular Medicare and know, those government-run health care programs that are already mandatory outlays in the budget?

      One day - sooner rather than later, I hope - Democrats will realize that passing crappy Republican legislation leads to crappy Republican results...and consequences.

      Adequate health care should be a LEGAL RIGHT in the U.S without begging or bankruptcy. Until it is, we should not dare call our society civilized.

      by Love Me Slender on Thu Nov 14, 2013 at 02:41:12 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Agree (4+ / 0-)

        Couldn't agree more. It takes way too much to get Obama fighting mad.

        •  I mean really, what if Obama came out tomorrow... (4+ / 0-)

          ...and said the following:

          You know what? I have had it with trying to make private insurance work. I am working with Democratic leaders to replace the ACA with Medicare/Medicaid open to any need it. The protections will remain, but the endless struggle to protect private insurance profit will end and REAL competition will become reality in America when a public insurance option becomes available to the nation.
          Republicans would have only one option in response: Publicly oppose Medicare and Medicaid i.e. insurance programs for the working poor and elderly/those nearing elderly...and the American public would have what it so rightly deserves: adequate health care.

          Adequate health care should be a LEGAL RIGHT in the U.S without begging or bankruptcy. Until it is, we should not dare call our society civilized.

          by Love Me Slender on Thu Nov 14, 2013 at 03:10:36 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Sorry, no. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Phoenix Woman
            Republicans would have only one option in response: Publicly oppose Medicare and Medicaid i.e. insurance programs for the working poor and elderly
            Hey, I'm certainly not a politician and even I know the response would go along the lines of:

            "I oppose this insane and unfunded highjacking of the Medicare program so essential to the well-being of our senior citizens. You saw what the Democrat party did with Obamacare! They will destroy Medicare!"

            Etc. Doesn't have to make sense. You would never get a single House R vote for any kind of Medicare For All program.

            •  You couldn't be more wrong about this: (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Einsteinia, historys mysteries
              You would never get a single House R vote for any kind of Medicare For All program.
              Medicare is a really, really popular program...and making it available is NOT a mandate.

              Obamacare FORCES people who do not qualify for Medicaid/Medicare to purchase private insurance. I think you underestimate how many, Republicans included, would choose Medicare available for all (a TRUE public option) over the clusterf**k we have now.

              Adequate health care should be a LEGAL RIGHT in the U.S without begging or bankruptcy. Until it is, we should not dare call our society civilized.

              by Love Me Slender on Thu Nov 14, 2013 at 04:43:09 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Bring down the Medicare age limit to 55 (2+ / 0-)

                We tried it once and failed, but now Lieberman and a lot of his cronies are out.

                The soft spot of all of these cancellations is that a very large number of these people are in the 50-60 range. This would work perfectly for them.

                The reasoning: "This is why we wanted it back then. To prevent these jackals from doing what they are doing now."

                I don't think that going all-in for single-payer would work. Most of America is just not smart enough. Baby steps.

                •  With all due respect... (0+ / 0-)

                  ...not only is that sentiment

                  I don't think that going all-in for single-payer would work. Most of America is just not smart enough.
                  condescending and arrogant, but politically it just is not true. Public insurance, in poll after poll, is exceedingly popular.

                  We have Obamacare because senators who are cozy with the insurance industry wrote it...pure and simple.

                  Adequate health care should be a LEGAL RIGHT in the U.S without begging or bankruptcy. Until it is, we should not dare call our society civilized.

                  by Love Me Slender on Fri Nov 15, 2013 at 09:52:42 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

      •  that resignation IS true IF we accept that (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        that we're limited by our present representatives.

        But I am not alone.  

        I see a political climate change brewing where you're going to see more Elizabeth Warren populist talk and less pro-corporation business as usual talk.

        Separation of Church and State AND Corporation

        by Einsteinia on Thu Nov 14, 2013 at 03:36:02 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  I Was Going To Say "Golden Shower" nt (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Einsteinia, Phoenix Woman

      Men are so necessarily mad, that not to be mad would amount to another form of madness. -Pascal

      by bernardpliers on Thu Nov 14, 2013 at 03:15:14 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  3 years from now, GOP will remind everyone. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Phoenix Woman

      ...that it was originally Romney's idea. I'm confident that the bugs in the ACA webpage will be fixed; if not in a month, still soon enough that most people will forget about it before the next election.

      As for the cancelled policies, we should tell people that it's like a car with bad brakes, but the driver is satisfied because he hasn't had to stop quickly. We want to have the dealer to recall the car so that when the driver does have to make an emergency stop, the brakes will hold.

      If Democrats can just look beyond the current spin cycle, this problem will pass; and the Republicans are sure to do something stupid again.

      Freedom's just another word for not enough to eat. --Paul Krugman's characterization of conservative attitudes.

      by Judge Moonbox on Thu Nov 14, 2013 at 06:38:18 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  They don't have to be smart to benefit from this.. (4+ / 0-)

      They just have to sit back and watch it unfold.

      All the best parts of Obamacare could have been rolled up in a Medicare/Medicaid expansion law. Now, our success or failure is in large part left to the success of Americans to purchase private health insurance policies. You'll excuse me if I'm not striking up the one-man band just yet.

      Adequate health care should be a LEGAL RIGHT in the U.S without begging or bankruptcy. Until it is, we should not dare call our society civilized.

      by Love Me Slender on Thu Nov 14, 2013 at 02:43:33 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  And Obamacare is going NOWHERE!!! There is (6+ / 0-)

      NOTHING that is going to cause the repeal or the delay of Obamacare.  It's here to stay.  It's a website issue.  Nothing more, nothing less.  It will be fixed.  And just look at the absolutely horrendous signup rate for the Massachusetts healthcare exchange for the early months.  It was literally something like 2,000 people.  With NO website issues.  Until it got right before the deadline.  Then BOOM!  They came out of the woodwork.  Procrastination is human nature.  As long as the website gets fixed, everything will take care of itself, and relatively quickly.

      •  Agree, aint going to happen (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Linda1961, Phoenix Woman

        I believe people in states like CA and in NY are gonna keep their systems, regardless of what happens at the federal level.  That's because the dumb asses in the TP will NEVER run their state governments.  Furthermore I just believe that too many people will be vested in the system by 2016, regardless of the current problems.  
        So if the tea-assholes want to listen to the Koch Bros and refuse to get insurance, they don't think they need to get preventive care or see a doctor when they're very sick, that's suites the hell outta me.  That just leaves more time for the sane people to get taken of.

        Mr. Boehner, where are the jobs?

        by Tx LIberal on Thu Nov 14, 2013 at 03:15:23 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  They're going to overplay their hand. (16+ / 0-)

    The problems with the rollout have, indeed, ended the shutdown story and given the Republicans a bunch of news cycles. They should make the most of the story while they can.

    But to try to build a long-term strategy around opposing it, to put all their eggs in that basket, is foolish overreach, the kind they always engage in.

    Republicans are like greedy chess players; when they get an advantage, they never just take the pawn and establish a position and count themselves lucky. They just keep throwing more and more material into the breach, certain that they're about to score the knockout punch, and end up a piece down when the smoke clears.

    Art is the handmaid of human good.

    by joe from Lowell on Thu Nov 14, 2013 at 02:21:58 PM PST

  •  GOP continues one giant screw-up to what could (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    have been a viable strategy:

    They haven't acknowledged or recognized that the current system sucks for lots of Americans, even those with "good" insurance.  That's because insurance is just a veneer -- a skin around the cancer that affects health care delivery itself.

    Insurance certainly contributes with it's idiotic referral daisy-chains and a boatload of other bad practices, but... health care is rotten to the core in this country.

    That's why Democrats consistently mislabel the ACA.  They don't call it what it is -- health insurance regulation. They call it health care reform.

    And they can get away with it because Republicans are running away from the issue entirely.

    Nothing on the table, and certainly nothing to make Americans believe they've got our backs on this issue.

    LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

    by dinotrac on Thu Nov 14, 2013 at 02:22:15 PM PST

    •  compare healthcare in the US with the UK (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      a2nite, wishingwell, Fury

      you get the same level of care and at fraction of the cost.

    •  You are right, but the problem for the GOP (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      librarisingnsf, Phoenix Woman

      what would their alternative be?

      I think one fact that both sides hate: ACA is almost the most conservative way to get health care reform.

      •  That's a good question, but, if nothing else, (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        maybe the party of the free market acknowledges how little free market economics come to play in American health care.  It may not even be possible for free market economics work in much of health care, but the GOP could try to come up with a way to preserve as much patient freedom as possible.  Democrats have a way of not caring very much about such things.

        LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

        by dinotrac on Thu Nov 14, 2013 at 02:44:24 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Not sure I follow you (0+ / 0-)

          We had a pretty free market system before ACA didnt we? And it didnt work. Or is that what you are saying?

          •  Not even close. (0+ / 0-)

            I'm not sure free market economic forces is even attainable in health care, but, let's take a look at how it's been working:

            1.  Medical practitioners are licensed.

            That restricts who can practice medicine to those who were able to go through a limited group of medical schools.

            In addition, nurses, physician's assistants (hmmm...physician's assistants, not medic, healer, etc) are significantly restricted in what they can do.

            It's one reason, for example, that so many American babies are born in hospitals... which brings us to

            2. Hospitals (many for profit) in many places are placed and positioned so as not to compete with each other.  

            3. Ahem -- the patent system is a major gift from the government to pharmaceutical and medical device companies. Take a patented drug, add something else to it, and Voila! Another 20 years of monopoly -- except in India.

            4.  Some basic things like Good Samaritan laws, which are good things, but not exactly free market in nature.

            5.  The fact that emergency situations so not allow for the kind of choice that lies at the basis of market decisions.

            6.  Insurance that insulates the insured from even asking market kinds of questions (how much will this cost? Is there an alternative approach? etc.)

            7. Insurance that causes hospitals and others to tell you flat out that they can't tell you what something will cost.

            How can you possibly have a free market if you can't even find out how much something will cost?

            LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

            by dinotrac on Thu Nov 14, 2013 at 04:46:39 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

  •  Poll: Democrats Losing the Congressional Lead (7+ / 0-)

    It's not just headlines. The polls that had Democrats (including at DKos) giddy all October, showing the generic Congressional vote was getting to around +7 for Democrats, has lost half that lead now.

    Don't be so smug. Republicans are masters at sewing together nothing but holes to make a net capturing politcal control in elections. It's going to be a long 2014 with a lot of terrible stuff in the economic and political pipeline. Trade deal leaks, Snowden leaks, Pentagon running amok worldwide, the econony still largely a scam that banksters could blow any second....

    "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

    by DocGonzo on Thu Nov 14, 2013 at 02:24:30 PM PST

    •  Republican Polls... (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      RAZE, Victor Ward, DocGonzo


      I agree with you. I see things unfolding very, very badly for our side. It's why so many were trying to "kill the bill" and work to pass something better apropos the programs already in place rather than something that hinged on the success of private insurance enrollment.

      Adequate health care should be a LEGAL RIGHT in the U.S without begging or bankruptcy. Until it is, we should not dare call our society civilized.

      by Love Me Slender on Thu Nov 14, 2013 at 02:45:30 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Only half? Meh. (0+ / 0-)

      PPP had it totally erased, so there must be other polls cancelling out PPP's and showing it unharmed.

      But polls or no polls, you're assuming, as did the giddy folk, that the conditions of the moment will still obtain a year from now.  Hell, they won't even obtain a month from now.

      You're assuming that Larry Ellison's crew won't get -- which is already vastly improved -- into fine shape by the end of this month.  Guess what?  They will.  And that alone takes 90% of the value out of the GOP's "political gold".  Obama's giving state insurance regulators permission to delay plan cancellations takes away the remaining 10%.

      So, a month from now, at the very worst the Dems won't have lost any more ground, and they may well have gained some of it back.   But that's only the beginning.

      You see, there will be another shutdown push starting, oh, shortly after New Year's Day.  And the Suicide Caucus Republicans are, against all the evidence, still thinking that what didn't work out well for them last time will suddenly be a genius move.  

      Yes, folks, you read it here first:  The Republicans will force another shutdown, and this one will be smack dab at the start of the 2014 campaign season.

      Yes, I do think that they are that stupid.

      Visit for Minnesota news as it happens.

      by Phoenix Woman on Thu Nov 14, 2013 at 08:34:23 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Political Fortunes Can Change in A Heartbeat (10+ / 0-)

    And they will as the Affordable Care Act begins to mature. It's a baby in diapers at the moment. But it will be potty trained and walking in a matter of months—and maybe weeks. I'll be interested to see how Republicans feel then.

  •  Same Loser Message As 2009-10. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    --Oh wait.

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Thu Nov 14, 2013 at 02:25:15 PM PST

  •  What freaking planet are these people living on? (3+ / 0-)
  •  If Obama are gets repealed I am out of here. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Miggles, ImpeachKingBushII

    I am not living in country that can't at least make it against the law for insurance providers to cap or drop converge that consumers have been paying for and trusting their lives and family security with.  

  •  Compare this with a NY Times column (8+ / 0-)

    which notes that GOP has basically six months to get rid of ACA before it takes hold.

    I tend to agree with the above article on this.

    For one thing, the Medicaid expansion isnt going anywhere. The rollout has been smoon there, an it will cover millions by March.

    If they can fix the website, then you have many more getting a benefit.

  •  the problem isn't (5+ / 0-)

    the (relatively small) number of people who will get subsidized "health insurance" through Obamacare . . . the problem is the relatively large number of people who will see either their present coverage diminish (as employers drop their health plans) or their insurance costs go up (regardless what they manage to find on "the exchange".

    Certainly some people will come out better off . . . but most of those people would have voted "D" anyway.  But as you move up the economic ladder into the middle class you find a lot more swing voters, and they are going to blame their premium increases squarely on Obamacare.  That's where the hurt is going to be . . .

    Fake Left, Drive Right . . . not my idea of a Democrat . . .

    by Deward Hastings on Thu Nov 14, 2013 at 02:33:15 PM PST

  •  Yard Signs! (3+ / 0-)

    I think this post is an excellent summary of the Republican mindset, as we've seen them careen from one sugar high to the next for most of Obama's Presidency.

    That said, I do wish I could get an honest assessment of the web page, and whether it is working well enough or not.

    President Obama has the amazing ability to humiliate his biggest critics, on the right and the left.

    by NoFortunateSon on Thu Nov 14, 2013 at 02:33:34 PM PST

  •  A little support from the Dems (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    librarisingnsf, Miggles, catilinus

    Changing the ACA to placate the press and roll over for the Republicans just supports the "Dems are spineless" meme. This law will work. Ignore the Republicans, call out the press as biased (they hate that) and shove any cowardly Dem in the closet.

  •  They're hyper fixated on the website while (4+ / 0-)

    forgetting that millions of Americans LOVE being able to keep their children under 26 on their plans...or the millions more who suffer from a pre-existing condition that would otherwise cause them either denial of service, a choice of going in to bankruptcy to try to obtain needed care, to be dropped from their current plan or to not be able to obtain a new plan if not for the ACA. There are many, many more people who are benefitting from the ACA than those who have been inconvenienced by the broken website...and will be able to sign up in the very near future. The site will be fixed and many people will obtain healthcare for the first time in a long time. Republicans are putting all their eggs in one risky basket betting on failure. Their inevitable overstepping will blow it for them once again. They plan on ignoring ENDA, a crumbling infastructure, a raise in the minimum wage, "jobs, jobs, jobs" and immigration reform, doubling down on the sequester, causing more economic mini-crises...all the while forgetting the looming bloody, costly primary wars and the slew of Democratic campaign ads reminding America of the wasted 24 billion and utter incompetence of the GOP throughout their shutdown/default fiasco. House Republicans, please continue.

  •  Dems should counter with Medicare Part E (7+ / 0-)

    If the GOP thinks its too complex and expensive, fine.  Let them vote for Medicare Part E - Medicare buy ins for everyone.

    Everybody understands it

    Everybody likes it

    It will create jobs

    It will provide good quality affordable health care

    If the GOP is really so concerned about people getting affordable health care coverage that's not too expensive - let them say no to Medicare Part E.

    If cutting Social Security & Medicare benefits for low income seniors is what Democrats do after they win a budget standoff, I'd hate to see what they do after they lose one.

    by Betty Pinson on Thu Nov 14, 2013 at 02:40:44 PM PST

  •  IMHO Obamacare (10+ / 0-)

    is doing better than I expected considering the hostility to the poor and middle-class even having health insurance and especially the hostility and hate towards Obama.

    We live in a country where people are hoping and willing  for the total failure of healthcare, I mean healthcare of all things...the fuckers

  •  They will be able to say it's failed, regardless (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Fury, Cpqemp, Miggles

    of the reality--which will be hard to measure.  I suspect, and wonder if anyone has checked, that most of those in the "I like my plan" cohort are GOP-trending libertarian types.  

  •  2014 Dem Recovery (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Fury, librarisingnsf, askew, Phoenix Woman

    We'll be leaving Afghanistan and Obama will have kept another Campaign pledge. IIRC there was a boost with the Iraq departure.

    By that time if the Romneycare rollout is any benchmark the ACA should be firing on all cylinders.

    I want 1 less Tiny Coffin, Why Don't You? Support The President's Gun Violence Plan.

    by JML9999 on Thu Nov 14, 2013 at 02:44:42 PM PST

  •  Missing from this seems to be the Cruz Factor, and (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Phoenix Woman

    how Boehner / Cantor / McConnell have suddenly - magically - boxed up the entire Teabag caucus and tucked them away in a soundproof closet until approximately Thanksgiving of 2014.

    Because I just don't see the GOP in its current state "staying out of the way".

    [exception: null object]

    by here4tehbeer on Thu Nov 14, 2013 at 02:46:02 PM PST

    •  The runup to Shutdown 2: Electric Boogaloo (0+ / 0-)

      Will commence shortly after New Year's Day.

      It will devour all of January and February.

      The Suicide Caucus won't care because they're in safe seats they can defend cheaply (or they have deep-pocketed patrons like the Kochs), but the other Republicans are going to be itching to get to the campaign and fundraising trails, and this won't be helping them at all.

      And by this time, will have been up and running long enough for the initial rollout issues to be a fast-fading memory, if that.

      Visit for Minnesota news as it happens.

      by Phoenix Woman on Thu Nov 14, 2013 at 08:42:37 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Hahahahahaha!! (6+ / 0-)

    For the past few years the Republicans have been running in terror on the idea that "Obamacare" will actually work, and we would end up with yet another "entitlement" that will "bribe" citizens into believing that "Big Government" actually works and more people will be "takers" and vote for Democrats because Democrats "give people stuff" and then they will get "addicted" to it like heroin.

    Now that they think that it actually might fail, they are going to "let it ride" by keeping "out of the way"?


    All their talk about Obamacare being a "disaster for the country" was always a bunch of hooey. They weren't afraid that it wouldn't work, they were afraid that it would.

    Time will tell of course, but one way or another, health care in this country will have to change. Whether Obamacare succeeds or fails, we will eventually have to go to single payer.

    "If you lose your sense of humor, it's just not funny anymore" Wavy Gravy

    by offgrid on Thu Nov 14, 2013 at 02:47:54 PM PST

    •  I've not been following the discussions (0+ / 0-)

      of Obamacare. Why are so many predicting we will eventually have to go to a single-payer system? Can you explain the rationale?
      Thanks in advance.

      •  It seems logical to me (0+ / 0-)

        If they want Obamacare to die, then after they succeed, do we go back to the old broken system?

        What's the alternative?

        Republicans: Taking the country back ... to the 19th century

        by yet another liberal on Thu Nov 14, 2013 at 03:16:01 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Because the ACA (3+ / 0-)

        does nothing very much about containing costs. Single payer can establish a stable cost structure.

        Because insurance companies have high overhead (mandated to only 20% by the ACA, but Medicare only has a 3% overhead cost)

        Because not everyone can afford health insurance, even under the ACA.

        And because Medicare for All (single payer) is a much better system. The patchwork system of private insurance companies is crazy. The "in network" and "out of network" system is crazy.

        The ACA is a step forward, but only a baby step.

        "If you lose your sense of humor, it's just not funny anymore" Wavy Gravy

        by offgrid on Thu Nov 14, 2013 at 03:42:24 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Thanks offgrid, (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          I understand the rationale of why single-payer is needed, I'm just trying to understand the rationale of people predicting the US will adopt a single-payer system.

          I certainly hope they are right, but so far, it seems like lots of wishing thinking with a touch of some very reasonable analysis.

          The latter, of course, has never held much weight, unfortunately, when it comes to abolishing the foundation of the most profitable industry in the United States (insurance, that is, not medicine).

          •  Funny thing about insurance (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            The concept is sound: lots of people pay into a pool where the risk is also pooled. People that get sick can have their medical expenses paid out of the pool, which can cover expenses that are higher than most individuals can afford to pay.

            But what is the difference between that "pool" being just the people who are covered by one particular insurance company, and a "pool" that includes everyone who pays the same amount of money in taxes?

            If an insurance company has 20% overhead, including profit, and a government program like Medicare has a 3% overhead, wouldn't Medicare for All be a cheaper system?

            So say, for instance, that a family of 4 paid $10,000 a year for insurance (I know, that's probably too low), and that covered $8000 in medical expenses (put into the pool) and $2000 in overhead. Wouldn't it save the family money to pay $8240 in taxes ($8000 med and $240 in overhead) instead of paying the insurance company $10,000 per year?

            The added bonus would be cradle-to-grave coverage not connected to your job, so people could lose or change jobs without losing medical care. The government would also be a much larger pool and could more easily control costs.

            Of course this is why the Public Option was dropped. as soon as you have a cheaper Public Option, nobody would buy private insurance, except for the rich who would want private doctors. The end of most insurance companies.

            And of course: "SOCIALISM!!"

            "If you lose your sense of humor, it's just not funny anymore" Wavy Gravy

            by offgrid on Thu Nov 14, 2013 at 04:32:15 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

      •  Because if you flap your arms (0+ / 0-)

        Fast enough, you can fly to the moon!

        Congress is an illusion, you see.

        Obamacare fails, and single payer will just happen.

  •  The web site WILL be fixed (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    That's a given. Why do these people think that this is even in question?

    None are so hopelessly enslaved, as those who falsely believe they are free. The truth has been kept from the depth of their minds by masters who rule them with lies. -Johann von Goethe

    by gjohnsit on Thu Nov 14, 2013 at 02:57:32 PM PST

  •  Obamacare is not judged on 1 year's performance (4+ / 0-)

    It has already changed lives for the better and will continue to do so.  500,000 people have/will have health insurance as of Jan 1 that did not have it before.  That's already a success to me.  Now, it is about optimizing the enrollment process.  

    Global Shakedown - Alternative rock with something to say. Check out their latest release, "A Time to Recognize": Available on iTunes, Amazon, Google Play, Spotify and other major online music sites. Visit

    by khyber900 on Thu Nov 14, 2013 at 03:00:51 PM PST

  •  "One year from now, if Obamacare (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    More Questions Than Answers

    hasn't given more people access to quality, affordable health insurance than have it today, then Republicans will be able to say that it's failed."

    Hell, they're going to be proclaiming that anyway, being totally unconstrained by abject reality as it were.

  •  It's impossible to make government ... (0+ / 0-)

    work when it is tuned to a GOP temperament.

    If life weren't so damn hard, we’d have no need for fabric softeners. - 16382

    by glb3 on Thu Nov 14, 2013 at 03:32:59 PM PST

  •  It is political gold.... (0+ / 0-)

    the "fix", as it is now being called, is absolute bullshit!  I'm not a Constitutionalist, but I damn sure want to know when this kind of action stops?  While I think that pot should be legal, I do not believe that those who break the law shouldn't be punished for it, because of what each President feels on the subject.  What if some Southern Governor decides to segregate a part of his/her state.  Will the public allow the future Presidents the discretion to enforce equality laws?  He fucked it up, and so did the others who put out that statement about keeping doctors/insurance, PERIOD.  What kind of an idiot would not think that after all the shit that the GOP has been giving him for years, they would not call him out on it.  Worse yet, for him to lip off to the media, yes like NIxon, is just pitiful.  There is nothing to defend here.  It is only going to get worse.  Just say that while the ACA is a noble endeavor, the President, and others fucked up by not being more transparent.  Please don't give me the BS that the Repubs are worse.  I know they are, but that is not a defense.

    By the authority vested in me by Kaiser Wilhelm II, I pronounce you man and wife. Proceed with the execution.

    by HarryParatestis on Thu Nov 14, 2013 at 03:50:34 PM PST

  •  i'm surprised (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    I'm surprised no one has blamed the Healthcare Website miss fire on the Republicans. It only takes one Republican Web Tech to sabotage the site. But I haven't heard one word about possible sabotage.

  •  and as every junk food junky knows... (0+ / 0-) the end of the sugar high waits a pit 2 miles wide and 20 miles deep. The repubs pin all their hopes and dreams of victory in 2016 on their succeding to kill the ACA in the crib, and with it the Crown Jewel of Obama's presidency. I almost pity the fools.

    The ACA fix is already off the drawing boards, in the works, almost a done deal. By 2016 the ACA will be running as smooth as a Singer sewing machine. Or the Plan B--Medicare for all--is more than sufficient to make the repubs regret every day they weren't leading the charge to help the American people, instead of obsessing with, and focusing all of their waning power on Obama's destruction. Their abject failure to lead is their Waterloo.

    Which begs the question: Who gets the last laugh, when it is the repubs that are left in tatters staring at the sky, with only a handful of gold dust asking "did anybody get the number of that train that just cut us in half"? Yes, I look forward to it.

    "I wish to have no connection with any ship that does not sail fast, for I intend to go in harm's way." John Paul Jones

    by ImpeachKingBushII on Thu Nov 14, 2013 at 05:19:37 PM PST

  •  Who could have foreseen it? (0+ / 0-)

    After all, what could possibly go wrong with enacting the GOP 1994 health insurance scheme concocted at the Heritage Foundation?

    Are there any apologists for this Democratic foolishness left?

    And speaking of left - the gaggle of Democorps who were allowed to force it upon us have left the Senate or will be. They should have been openly invited to cross over to the GOP side.

    The Democorporate faction of the party uses the Far Right as its excuse for moving further right.

    by masswaster on Thu Nov 14, 2013 at 06:02:44 PM PST

  •  Some people might need substandard insurance (0+ / 0-)

    Beyond the short-term glitches, is that for many middle income people, quality health insurance is not now, and will not be, affordable.

    The subsidies simply aren't generous enough to make quality insurance affordable for the middle class. An individual making as little as $30,000 a year gets nothing from the federal government towards policies that cost ~$3,000 a year.

    Our health insurance costs are too high. If we're going to go on with this private health insurance industry, we may have to face that some people should be allowed to buy "substandard" insurance, because they can't afford quality insurance at these prices.

  •  Not only will more people sign up, but... (0+ / 0-)

    some benefits for people who have health care are helping them out.

    For example, my daughter has to take birth control for her ovarian cyst. Her medication usually costs about $25.

    Tonight, it was free. I checked. It was because of Obamacare.

    Young people like this. And a lot of fathers who have daughters will conditions like ovarian cysts.

  •  The thing is... (0+ / 0-)

    it's not "Republicans" that have discovered "political gold", it's the media that have discovered it.

    It's their new chew-toy and they won't let go.

    I hope everything is OK by July '14 or kiss the Dem Senate goodbye.

  •  Republicans never pay up when they bet wrong. (0+ / 0-)
    But even that doesn't go far enough. Republicans have bet everything on being the anti-Obamacare party.
    They've "bet everything" the same way Bush "bet everything" on the invasion of Iraq.  He lost that bet, but it cost him nothing.  In American politics, Republicans never have to pay up, when they bet wrong.
    •  Failure means too little conservatism or too much (0+ / 0-)

      government. Those are the only permissible interpretations. In 2033 or so, if the Reps still exist, they (some, at least) will be saying the invasion of Iraq failed because there were too many govt troops and not enough contractors, or something similar but more ingeniously stupid, just as they say the invasion of Vietnam failed because the US govt was too soft with the Vietnamese.

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