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Happy Thanksgiving, Swingnuts! To honor this occasion, I'll pose this special open thread question: What congressional district are you celebrating Thanksgiving in?

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Comment Preferences

  •  Tip Jar (4+ / 0-)

    Editor, Daily Kos Elections

    by James L on Thu Nov 28, 2013 at 06:19:50 AM PST

  •  As a Brit, I don't celebrate Thanksgiving (5+ / 0-)

    but in response to the question, I'm in the Vauxhall constituency right now, even though I live in Enfield North.

    Happy Thanksgiving to all those celebrating it, though!

    British guy with a big interest in US politics; Economic Left/Right: -3.62, Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.13.

    by General Goose on Thu Nov 28, 2013 at 06:34:46 AM PST

    •  Exeter College, Oxford (4+ / 0-)

      has a year-long exchange program with Williams College in MA. The college hosts a traditional American-style Thanksgiving Dinner every year for the American students from Williams--most of whom can't afford to fly home and back for a few days.  They boast that it is "the largest traditional American Thanksgiving celebration in the United Kingdom," which is, no doubt, absolutely true.

      "I was not born for myself alone, but for my neighbor as well as myself."--Richard Overton, leader of the Levellers, a17th C. movement for democracy and equality during the English Civil War. http://www.kynect.ky.gov/ for healthcare coverage in Kentucky

      by SouthernLeveller on Thu Nov 28, 2013 at 05:55:49 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Not a fan of Oxbridge (0+ / 0-)

        and that has NOTHING to do with the fact I'm a Cambridge reject. Nope, nothing at all. Me, bitter?

        British guy with a big interest in US politics; Economic Left/Right: -3.62, Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.13.

        by General Goose on Sat Nov 30, 2013 at 09:44:47 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  VA-03 (Bobby Scott) (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    MichaelNY

    However I can see VA-02 (Rigell) from my window.

  •  FL-16 Vern Buchanan (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Alibguy, OleHippieChick, MichaelNY

    It's a frigid 38! Or it was earlier.

    22, Male, NC-02 home, SC-04 School. Majoring in Piano Pedagogy. Not your typical DKE junkie!

    by aggou on Thu Nov 28, 2013 at 06:59:34 AM PST

  •  FL-27 (5+ / 0-)

    A bit chilly here right now, but it should be in the 70s by lunch. :)

    Ok, so I read the polls.

    by andgarden on Thu Nov 28, 2013 at 07:00:00 AM PST

  •  I don't celebrate Thanksgiving (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    James Allen, MichaelNY

    nor care for it. But having said that Happy Thanksgiving to DKE'ers celebrating!

    NY-9/NJ-10; Russians can give you arms but only the United States can give you a solution. -- Anwar Sadat

    by BKGyptian89 on Thu Nov 28, 2013 at 07:12:48 AM PST

  •  One that recently launched a US senator (3+ / 0-)

    CT-05!

  •  MI-09 (Sandy Levin) (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    James Allen, MichaelNY

    I'm hosting in my new home in Fabulous Ferndale, Michigan!

  •  OGGoldy's locations (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    MichaelNY

    I will be spending this afternoon in MN-5 (Ellison), this evening in MN-6 (Bachmann), and Saturday afternoon in MN-8 (Nolan). 3 dinners, oh yea.

    I am a Tom Rukavina Democrat

    by OGGoldy on Thu Nov 28, 2013 at 07:43:13 AM PST

  •  VA-10, where I live (10+ / 0-)

    With a wife and three kids, we're in a stage in life where we host, we don't travel.

    My own family back in the Midwest doesn't really celebrate Thanksgiving.  Immigrants and also dysfunctional, they never "took" to American holidays.

    My in-laws are local, so they'll come here later today.

    My wife made a pie last night, has the turkey in the oven, and is taking a nap.

    I hope my in-laws bring mashed potatoes and more, my wife didn't make much this year (and I'm just not a cook at all, mac 'n cheese from a box is as good as I get).

    Speaking of my Congressional district, I'm hoping Frank Wolf hangs it up in 2016, not 2014.  I don't see any sign of retirement from him soon, so I'm not worried.  But I suspect if Hillary runs and Wolf retires, we'll get a good downballot wind at our backs and a chance to steal this seat.

    I personally would like to see my local Fairfax County Supervisor, John Foust, as my next Congressman, but I've never asked him if he has any interest and I haven't heard from anyone else that he does.

    45, male, Indian-American, married and proud father of a girl and 2 boys, Democrat, VA-10

    by DCCyclone on Thu Nov 28, 2013 at 08:13:51 AM PST

    •  Before my parents split up we hosted (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      DCCyclone, Eyesbright, MichaelNY

      we had a house built as a duplex, so we had plenty of bedrooms, 2 kitchens, 2 dining areas, 2 living rooms, and much of my dad's family lives here and in the NW, so we'd often have 20-30 people.

      ...better the occasional faults of a government that lives in a spirit of charity, than the consistent omissions of a government frozen in the ice of its own indifference. -FDR, 1936

      by James Allen on Thu Nov 28, 2013 at 08:51:42 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  That's a lot of people! (4+ / 0-)

        We ended up with a grand total of 6 adults and 5 kids, including ourselves and our kids as hosts.  There was some crazy family drama on my wife's side that ended up getting resolved in what for us is the most desirable way possible, so that was good.  And the in-laws brought plenty of food, so no shortage of anything.  Only issue was I like my wife's pecan pie, but she decided to make apple this time.  But she's doing the work, so she gets to pick.

        I would like to learn to do more cooking for this stuff.  But my in-laws won't want to be guinea pigs, so I'll have to experiment on some random weekend.

        45, male, Indian-American, married and proud father of a girl and 2 boys, Democrat, VA-10

        by DCCyclone on Thu Nov 28, 2013 at 05:03:47 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Oh come on (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      James Allen, DCCyclone

      Cooking / baking is the second best part of Thanksgiving! (After eating of course).

    •  Also, I know you want him (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      James Allen, DCCyclone, MichaelNY

      to run for Governor, but do you think AG Mark Herring would be a good candidate here? He lives in the District and his SD was mostly in the district.

      •  He'd be a great candidate, but I can't see him... (5+ / 0-)

        ...running for a Congressional seat unless he ran for Governor and lost.  He's the overall frontrunner for either party in 2017 presuming his lead holds up in the recount and he's actually sworn in as A.G.  A U.S. House seat makes no sense for him from that platform, when he can have more.

        But yeah, Herring would easily be our best candidate in VA-10.

        45, male, Indian-American, married and proud father of a girl and 2 boys, Democrat, VA-10

        by DCCyclone on Thu Nov 28, 2013 at 05:01:00 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  CA-02 (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    MichaelNY

    Going to spend it with a few relatives and will be seeing the 12th district from the window.

    For more election analysis and redistricting maps, check out my blog http://racesandredistricting.blogspot.com/ CA-2 (former CA-6) College in CA-37. Go Trojans!!

    by Alibguy on Thu Nov 28, 2013 at 08:31:24 AM PST

  •  IN-01 (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    KyleinWA, Eyesbright, MichaelNY

    I'm heading to my uncle's house in Crown Point, Indiana, as my family has done for just about every Thanksgiving I can remember. I have a wonderful extended family (that knows how to cook), so I'm really excited. I flew in from Pennsylvania just for this!

    From the North Shore of Illinois, now living on the Main Line of Southeastern Pennsylvania

    by IllinoyedR on Thu Nov 28, 2013 at 08:44:44 AM PST

  •  NY-24 (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    James Allen, Eyesbright, MichaelNY

    Prepping for about 30 relatives to descend from all over NY. It's 25 and snowing. Last year it was 70 and I was golfing. Gotta love Upstate.

  •  heading northeast to the east end of WA-03 (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    KyleinWA, Eyesbright, MichaelNY

    I made some pumpkin cheesecake which I'm hoping will be good.

    ...better the occasional faults of a government that lives in a spirit of charity, than the consistent omissions of a government frozen in the ice of its own indifference. -FDR, 1936

    by James Allen on Thu Nov 28, 2013 at 09:01:26 AM PST

  •  Munching on the shores of ME-01 (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    KingofSpades, ProgMD, MichaelNY

    but starting in half an hour, I will be paying attention to the activities in MI-13, then TX-33, then MD-03.

    ME-01 (college) ID-01 (home) -9.85, -3.85

    by GoUBears on Thu Nov 28, 2013 at 09:02:35 AM PST

  •  Staying here in WI-02 (5+ / 0-)

    I'm going to a dinner put on by some other students and baking pumpkin pies. I'm using a Chocolate pie crust for one of them that I hope will turn out good.

  •  Silicon Valley's CA-18 (Anna Eshoo) (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Eyesbright, MichaelNY

    State Assembly district 28 (Paul Fong), Senate District 15 (Jim Beall), Santa Clara County Supervisor District 1 (Mike Wasserman).  

    MST3K is having their first Turkey Day Marathon in decades right now, so I'm happy!
     

    Contributing Editor, Daily Kos Elections. 23, male, CA-18 (home and voting there), LA-02 (resident).

    by Jeff Singer on Thu Nov 28, 2013 at 09:15:10 AM PST

    •  Santa Clara County (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      MichaelNY, Darth Jeff

      I used to live in SC County, Campbell

      still have two brothers living there.

      As conservative republicans, they are in a permanent state of disgrunlement at their elected representatives

      •  Yep, that's Santa Clara County alright! (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        MichaelNY

        A few bits have had GOP reps in the recent past.  Until the 2006 midterms Pombo represented Morgan Hill.  Until 2012 a bit of the county (including me) was represented by a series of GOPers in the state Senate, including Abel Maldonado.

        I believe the county has been all Dem in Congress and the legislature since 2012 and is likely to stay that way for a very long time.    

        Contributing Editor, Daily Kos Elections. 23, male, CA-18 (home and voting there), LA-02 (resident).

        by Jeff Singer on Fri Nov 29, 2013 at 11:46:36 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  VA-01 (4+ / 0-)

    My parents' house, which for the preceding 10 years was in VA-11.  Under 1990s redistricting it was in VA-10, and for the 1980s it was VA-08 (they've lived in the same house since 1985.)  Meanwhile, they're waiting for their first grandchild and I my first nephew, to be born any day now (due date was Monday) to my brother and his wife in VA-11 (Fairfax Hospital.)

    For tomorrow, I won a free 3-hour happy hour in DC-AL, if that counts.

    38, MD-8 (MD-6 after 2012) resident, NOVA raised, Euro/Anglophile Democrat

    by Mike in MD on Thu Nov 28, 2013 at 09:22:08 AM PST

  •  The total Medicaid/Exchange enrollee tally (11+ / 0-)

    may now be as high as 1.4 million people. Kossack Brainwrap has been tracking the numbers. West Virginia just noted they've contacted over 100,000 who are eligible for the expansion and signed up 54,000 new folks for Medicaid so far. That is fantastic.

    ...better the occasional faults of a government that lives in a spirit of charity, than the consistent omissions of a government frozen in the ice of its own indifference. -FDR, 1936

    by James Allen on Thu Nov 28, 2013 at 09:28:34 AM PST

  •  Sticking around in UT-04, of course. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    KingofSpades, MichaelNY

    And SD-06/HD-47.

    I don't actually like turkey, but I do like most other Thanksgiving foods.

    Leftist Mormon in Utah, Born in Washington State, live in UT-04 (Matheson).

    by Gygaxian on Thu Nov 28, 2013 at 09:35:26 AM PST

  •  Hey, look, a list of reasons why (4+ / 0-)

    having Black Friday start Thanksgiving night is a good idea!!

    "You are not machines! You are not cattle! You are men! You have the love of humanity in your hearts. You don't hate! Only the unloved hate — the unloved and the unnatural!" -Charlie Chaplin

    by KingofSpades on Thu Nov 28, 2013 at 09:50:06 AM PST

    •  I've never understood Black Friday (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      BeloitDem, James Allen, KingofSpades

      from a customer's standpoint, anyway. The idea of rushing to get discounts you can get online, anyway, and could get closer to Christmas (not to mention after Christmas, for those like me who do no Christmas shopping) seems profoundly stupid and lemming-like to me.

      Formerly Pan on Swing State Project

      by MichaelNY on Fri Nov 29, 2013 at 01:27:43 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I have never done Black Friday (4+ / 0-)

        nor will I ever. Stores could not pay me to take high dollar merchandise from them in such awful crowds. I like shopping for clothes, I really do, but I am not a people person.

        23 Burkean Post Modern Gay Democrat; NM-2 (Raised), TX-20 (B.A. & M.A. in Political Science), TX-17 (Home); 08/12 PVIs

        by wwmiv on Fri Nov 29, 2013 at 04:22:18 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Day after Christmas shopping (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        MichaelNY, KingofSpades

        is by far my favorite.  I usually find awesome discounts at Macy's! I'm about to head out to Target and Best Buy only for cheap blurays.  In and out.  Terrified of what Best Buy may look like though since my local one is the largest one in MN.  Target should be dead by now since there is a Target like every 10 miles in the Twin City suburbs.

        •  Amazon does that too (0+ / 0-)

          I bought the Alien quadrilogy on Blu-Ray for only 20 bucks (including shipping) through a special fire sale-type deal they had recently.  It also includes the director's cuts and "making of" and whatnot.

          "You are not machines! You are not cattle! You are men! You have the love of humanity in your hearts. You don't hate! Only the unloved hate — the unloved and the unnatural!" -Charlie Chaplin

          by KingofSpades on Fri Nov 29, 2013 at 04:19:46 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  the only time it made a lot of sense (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        MichaelNY, KingofSpades

        is when we had family visiting us from Washington, since they could avoid the sales tax.

        ...better the occasional faults of a government that lives in a spirit of charity, than the consistent omissions of a government frozen in the ice of its own indifference. -FDR, 1936

        by James Allen on Fri Nov 29, 2013 at 10:43:35 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  In the Philadelphia metro area (0+ / 0-)

        "Black Friday" used to refer to the day of the epic Army vs. Navy football game.

        "You are not machines! You are not cattle! You are men! You have the love of humanity in your hearts. You don't hate! Only the unloved hate — the unloved and the unnatural!" -Charlie Chaplin

        by KingofSpades on Fri Nov 29, 2013 at 04:20:54 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  I'm in NJ-03 (5+ / 0-)

    we're having a second Thanksgiving hosted by my dad's wife's daughter and husband at their new house (they got married last month) in NJ-01 on Saturday.

    "You are not machines! You are not cattle! You are men! You have the love of humanity in your hearts. You don't hate! Only the unloved hate — the unloved and the unnatural!" -Charlie Chaplin

    by KingofSpades on Thu Nov 28, 2013 at 09:52:04 AM PST

  •  Two districts (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    itskevin, MichaelNY

    OR-03 and OR-05. I'll be celebrating with family who I won't see today in OR-01 this weekend.

    Pragmatic progressive. Oregonian, Cascadian, and American. Keeper of the DKE glossary.

    by SaoMagnifico on Thu Nov 28, 2013 at 10:13:01 AM PST

  •  IL-08, my In-Laws' house (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Eyesbright, MichaelNY

    Where "serious Representative upgrade" is a reason to be thankful...

  •  Home in WA-07 (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Zack from the SFV, MichaelNY

    Probably the most solidly Democratic district with a clear majority of white, non-Hispanic voters; if not, it's up there with a couple of others.

    Next week, it's off to FL-19: Trey-land!

  •  NC-06 (Coble, soon to be Berger) (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    MichaelNY

    but in an alternate universe NC-14 where NC didn't have a gerrymander and won that 14th district with military personnel counted properly.

    And for a Thanksgiving day preview, I'm working on my Appalachia diary part two and some of the effects downballot are astounding. My point of departure is 2010 for redistricting, and in South Carolina not only does Vincent Sheheen win narrowly, but Democrats would have held the legislature until 2010 when Republicans narrowly pick up the House, and only pick up the senate thanks to the LG since its tied 17/17. Without their gerrymander, Democrats might have taken it back in 2012 in the new South Carolina. In addition to the actual Education Superintendent office Dems won in 2006, they would have won the LG race and Treasurer race, giving them those plus the legislature until 2010 without those northwestern counties (and their GOP legislators).

  •  Going from the new part of NJ-05 (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    MichaelNY

    to the traditional, "real" NJ-05. (Probably be going to the third, rural part of the district for a Christmas tree in a couple weeks.)

    "Pillows, but no sleep / Feathers, but no birds." | Pro-transit young black urban progressive | SSP/DKE | -9, -7.79 | NJ-05 - ! | Yard signs don't vote.

    by gabjoh on Thu Nov 28, 2013 at 10:41:08 AM PST

  •  FL-01 (Jeff Miller, I think) (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    MichaelNY

    and after an 800-mile trip south it's a grand total of seven degrees warmer here than it is back home in Missouri. But I do love this part of the country.

    Also celebrating my 27th birthday today - only feasting once for both holidays is probably a good thing for me :)

    26, male, Dem, born and raised in MO-08, currently living in MO-04.

    by ModernDayWarrior on Thu Nov 28, 2013 at 10:43:46 AM PST

  •  WA-5 and ID-1 (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    KingofSpades, MichaelNY

    But my mom Mom is stuck in transit in OR-3 so Thanksgiving is basically cancelled for my family. Happy tofurky day!

  •  Latvia's government falls... (6+ / 0-)

    After its prime minister responds to the tragic collapse of a supermarket roof onto shoppers in Riga by resigning. Story here.

    There had been no public calls for the resignation of Prime Minister Valdis Dombrovskis, who led his country’s recovery from the 2008 financial crisis through a bitterly painful austerity program that was held up as a model for other nations. The investigation of the building disaster had not pointed to any wrongdoing by the government, though there has been speculation about lax safety enforcement. [...]

    “Latvia needs to have a government that will be supported by the parliamentary majority and deal with the current situation in the nation,” he said at a news conference on Wednesday, according to local news reports. “I wish to thank Latvia’s society for support during the trying period when the country was battling the economic and financial crisis to return to the path of growth. I also apologize for all that we have failed to achieve.”

    The Latvian president will now have to assemble a government and find someone to serve as prime minister.

    As commentary -- this seems bizarre, and I can't help but suspect Dombrovskis was looking for the exits and took advantage of this semi-credible opportunity to step down.

    Pragmatic progressive. Oregonian, Cascadian, and American. Keeper of the DKE glossary.

    by SaoMagnifico on Thu Nov 28, 2013 at 10:58:07 AM PST

  •  What I would be thankful for? (0+ / 0-)

    No more Ted Cruz. Read, Sign and Share my petition to show Ted Cruz's potential benefactors the opposition he will face in the future:  bit.ly/FireTedCruz

    If we force the GOP to run better republican candidates, we'll force the Democratic Party to run better democratic candidates.  It's a win win.

  •  Thanks, Obama (8+ / 0-)

    I'm thankful for the 2012 election cycle. Let us celebrate

    The Glorious Ohio-New Hampshire-Iowa-Nevada Firewall held, the hordes of mormans and teabaggers were defeated and turned away, Nate Silver and his poll averaging acolytes reigned supreme, and Americans re-elected our beloved president. We then all gathered around the television and had the pleasure of watching Mitt Romney, a pathetic loser if there ever was one, concede, while the unskewed poll truthers and the right-wing bigots were forced to accept reality. What a great day. Let us devote this one year anniversary to celebrating that great victory over right-wing extremism and a creepy vice presidential candidate who wore suits 2-3 sizes too large.
  •  Home in IL-10 (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    MichaelNY

    Grandma is coming over later for a nice quiet dinner.

    Speaking of IL-10, Schneider has a primary challenger as of yesterday, although I doubt she'll go anywhere.

  •  how do you think america would work in a three (0+ / 0-)

    party system. Here are my hypothetical parties:

    American Independent Party - big into the constitution. What I call "anti big business conservatives". Heavily religious element and is antistatist and is skeptical towards public education as it makes them worship golden calfs such as the federal government and UN. Believes that a lot of American movements were communist inspired such as the civil rights movement (believes mlk was a communist), women's rights/abortions rights movement, gay rights movement and environmental movements. They also think that the immigration act of 1965 and the push to ban assault weapons are also communist inspired. It is also protectionist. Believes the Dept of Ed should be abolished, prayer in school should be reinstated and that homeschools should get tax credits. Examples: Tim and Beverly LaHaye, Sam Francis, Paul Weyrich

    American Labor Party - Believes in ending deportations, expanding all social welfare programs and is protectionist. It is big into slogans: el somos 99 percent", "jobs not cuts", "healthcare not warfare", "si se puede" etc. Most of the constituency would be people like the SEIU and MoveOn.org, GoodJobsLA, Working Families Party, UFW, ACCE. Believes the death penalty should be abolished and drugs legalized because of its disproportionate impact on poor communities. Believes in expanding affirmative action but is more mixed (though slightly left of center) on abortion, gay marriage, environment. Some members would be Luis Gutierrez, Bill DeBlasio, Bertha Lewis.

    Universalist Party - sort of the Bloomberg, Zuckerberg, Booker types. Strongly pro-choice, pro-gun control, anti fracking/pro cap and trade, and supports gay marriage. Supports Free Trade. Is more moderate on immigration issues compared to ALP (supports Corker-Hoeven). Believes in legalizing drugs but for different reasons than ALP (believes it is one's own liberty). Supportive of some labor orgs but skeptical towards teachers unions. Is somewhat tough on crime but not to the extent that the AIP would be. Supports the death penalty but believes it should be up to the states and only if killer hasn't made sincere apology. On foreign policy, it supports air travel to Cuba on one hand, but is hawkish in the Middle East. Pretty status quo on other economic issues.

    follow me at: http://rumromerebellion.wordpress.com/

    by demographicarmageddon on Thu Nov 28, 2013 at 12:28:39 PM PST

    •  Here's how a three-party system... (0+ / 0-)

      ...might end up actually being formed:

      A Progressive Party that is roughly along the lines of your ALP.
      A Democratic Party that is either along the lines of UP or slightly to the right of it.
      A Republican Party that is along the lines of your AIP.

      Doug Sosnik, a former Bill Clinton adviser, recently suggested that a major third-party could rise over the next several years, and he described such a major third-party as being along the lines of a "community-oriented progressive" model, which would appear to be slightly to the right of your ALP, but quite a bit to the left of your UP:

      There is clearly an opening for a third party in our country. While most of the focus is at the presidential level, there is a long-term opportunity to build this movement from the bottom up, state-by-state. This could take several years to grow, but as the country continues to move further and further away from the two-party system, this slower build is more likely to ultimately metastasize into an effective national movement. This third party will most likely be led by community-based leaders who are focused on getting things done to improve people’s lives rather than by professional politicians interested in their own agenda.

      My parents made me a Democrat. Scott Walker made me a progressive.

      by DownstateDemocrat on Thu Nov 28, 2013 at 02:12:55 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  three party democracy (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Tyler Yeargain, Setsuna Mudo, okiedem

        A three party democracy, with single member districts, is inherently unstable and unsustainable

        •  Duverger's Law (4+ / 0-)

          23 Burkean Post Modern Gay Democrat; NM-2 (Raised), TX-20 (B.A. & M.A. in Political Science), TX-17 (Home); 08/12 PVIs

          by wwmiv on Thu Nov 28, 2013 at 09:35:41 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  That's generally true but it hasn't prevented (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          MichaelNY

          Canada and the UK for having robust three party systems (with significant minor regional parties) for the past several decades.

          27, originally OK-1, currently NY-10. Former swingnut.

          by okiedem on Fri Nov 29, 2013 at 12:02:46 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  There are specific historical reasons for those (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            MichaelNY

            23 Burkean Post Modern Gay Democrat; NM-2 (Raised), TX-20 (B.A. & M.A. in Political Science), TX-17 (Home); 08/12 PVIs

            by wwmiv on Fri Nov 29, 2013 at 02:15:54 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Sort of but they're pretty weak (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              MichaelNY, gabjoh, wwmiv

              at least in the case of the UK. The UK was effectively a two party system between 1950 and 1975 (or really 1985) since the liberal party had completely collapsed during that time. The Lib Dems were able to develop into a competitive third party in the 1980s despite the UK being a two party country for the previous 35 years. This seems to be pretty strong proof that, while single member districts discourage the development of meaningful third parties, such parties can arise under the right circumstances.

              27, originally OK-1, currently NY-10. Former swingnut.

              by okiedem on Fri Nov 29, 2013 at 02:31:51 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  I'd argue it's different in a parliamentary system (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                MichaelNY

                ... because third parties don't ALWAYS play spoiler. The presidency is the single most powerful figure and is a giant winner-take-all office in its own right, which makes it hard for a third party (which can't credibly contest the presidency) to survive in the long run. In other words, FPTP + presidentialism has an extremely strong bias towards a two party system.

                If we had a parliamentary system, I could see a 2.5/3 party system emerge in the country. Or, alternately, if we had IRV voting or some kind of PR in Congress and runoff elections for the presidency.

    •  ok (0+ / 0-)

      As of now popular support for those parties might be 30/25/45, but your Universalists would probably roll every time because they would have by far the most appeal to the business community and to rich individuals. I think they would be a little further to the right than you suggest (I think they'd be pro-fracking within limits and would not emphasize values issues like abortion) but they would be the natural home for the establishment wings of both parties.

      SSP poster. 44, CA-6, -0.25/-3.90

      by sacman701 on Thu Nov 28, 2013 at 07:33:38 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  it would be interesting to see what pols would be (0+ / 0-)

        in what. Like Manchin is one of those types that isn't squarely in any camp.

        follow me at: http://rumromerebellion.wordpress.com/

        by demographicarmageddon on Thu Nov 28, 2013 at 08:57:08 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  could anyone here see the UP being into (0+ / 0-)

        population control measures too (like dp for welfare recipients)?

        follow me at: http://rumromerebellion.wordpress.com/

        by demographicarmageddon on Thu Nov 28, 2013 at 10:04:25 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  why would population control be a good thing (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          wwmiv

          for anyone?

          One of America's greatest assets in the long run is that it's TFR is close to replacement levels.

          Also, what is dp?

          •  depo provera n/t (0+ / 0-)

            follow me at: http://rumromerebellion.wordpress.com/

            by demographicarmageddon on Fri Nov 29, 2013 at 09:13:34 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  Climate change (0+ / 0-)

            would be a good reason for population control, at least in the short term.  Also in preventing famine, disease, resource wars, and genocide.

            Birth control was the greatest invention of the second half of the 20th century.

            Don't call these racist thugs the tea party, they are *teabaggers*! Please don't insult the original Tea Party as they were patriots. Call them TeaBaggers!

            by TeaBaggersAreRacists on Fri Nov 29, 2013 at 05:47:20 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  only for developing countries. (0+ / 0-)
              •  No (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                MichaelNY

                A person born in the US contributed far more to climate change than one in Africa.

                Furthermore you can't be hypocritical about it.  If you are preaching population control for the developing world, you better be practicing it yourself if you want them to listen.

                Don't call these racist thugs the tea party, they are *teabaggers*! Please don't insult the original Tea Party as they were patriots. Call them TeaBaggers!

                by TeaBaggersAreRacists on Fri Nov 29, 2013 at 08:16:56 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  How about for preventing famine, disease, (0+ / 0-)

                  resource wars and genocide?

                  Developed countries are already practicing population control, just that it's individuals rather than governments who are choosing to use population control.

                  •  Here's your original comment (0+ / 0-)
                    why would population control be a good thing for anyone?
                    I'm arguing that it would be a good thing for everyone, both developed and developing countries alike.  Certainly in developing countries a heavy population control plan is needed to prevent the things I mentioned above.  But it is needed in developed countries to reduce the carbon emissions as well.

                    Until we have a handle on climate change, I support below replacement number of births in as many counties as possible.  We don't need to encourage people to produce kids anywhere.  
                    And my girlfriend and I have no intention of having kids at this time (nor do we have an intent to get married either, but that's a different subject.)

                    Don't call these racist thugs the tea party, they are *teabaggers*! Please don't insult the original Tea Party as they were patriots. Call them TeaBaggers!

                    by TeaBaggersAreRacists on Fri Nov 29, 2013 at 09:28:17 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  I have never understood this logic (0+ / 0-)
                      And my girlfriend and I have no intention of having kids at this time
                      I would understand if you felt this way because you thought the future was so bleak that you couldn't imagine bringing life into the world. However, in a world of 7 billion people whether any individual couple has children is completely immaterial to climate change and resource depletion.

                      Whatever you and your partner do is none of my business and I certainly don't pass any judgment on your decisions. I just hope that you don't pass any judgment on others' decisions either.

                      27, originally OK-1, currently NY-10. Former swingnut.

                      by okiedem on Sat Nov 30, 2013 at 07:29:52 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Why vote? (0+ / 0-)

                        In a country with a 130 million voters, a single vote is almost always completely immaterial to determining who wins a Presidential election.

                         

                        Don't call these racist thugs the tea party, they are *teabaggers*! Please don't insult the original Tea Party as they were patriots. Call them TeaBaggers!

                        by TeaBaggersAreRacists on Sat Nov 30, 2013 at 07:44:06 AM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  Two responses to that: (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          jncca

                          1. I don't think you have a moral obligation to vote. While I think it's a good thing it's hard to say that anyone has a moral obligation to do anything that will have zero effect on anyone's well-being.

                          2. I don't think that logic leads where you think. You're basically saying that you have a moral obligation to act in ways that would be virtuous if all members of society acted similarly. This is usually expressed as something like: "You have an obligation to vote because if no one voted we wouldn't have a democracy." However, even if we accept that logic you should really advocate having one child rather than none. If you accept the belief that you have an obligation to act in ways that would be beneficial if all members of society did the same then having no children would clearly be bad. While everyone having one child would reduce population everyone having no children would end the human race.  

                          27, originally OK-1, currently NY-10. Former swingnut.

                          by okiedem on Sat Nov 30, 2013 at 07:49:12 AM PST

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  Vehement (0+ / 0-)

                            It is possible to view his actions as morally right by that standard if he agrees with certain of the precepts of the Voluntary Human Extinction Movement (vhemt.org). (Most likely not his actual position.)

                            I pledge allegiance to liberty and justice for all.

                            by childers moof on Sat Nov 30, 2013 at 07:56:15 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Not at all supportive of that movement (0+ / 0-)

                            Don't call these racist thugs the tea party, they are *teabaggers*! Please don't insult the original Tea Party as they were patriots. Call them TeaBaggers!

                            by TeaBaggersAreRacists on Sat Nov 30, 2013 at 08:03:48 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  I disagree with #1 (0+ / 0-)

                            You do have a moral responsibility to vote, IMO.  I would strongly support an Australian type system where voting is mandatory, with an opt-out option where you can state your desire not to vote on your ballot.  

                            I'm advocating a below replacement rate like Europe, not a zero rate.  But given that plenty of people have 3 or more kids, I don't think it will hurt if we have zero children, especially when we have no burning desire to have kids.  If people who don't really want kids weren't being pressured by conservative society into having them, I think we'd be fine on the population front.

                            Don't call these racist thugs the tea party, they are *teabaggers*! Please don't insult the original Tea Party as they were patriots. Call them TeaBaggers!

                            by TeaBaggersAreRacists on Sat Nov 30, 2013 at 08:02:23 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  i don't agree with everything he says but here's (0+ / 0-)

                            something I do agree with:
                            http://www.youtube.com/...

                            follow me at: http://rumromerebellion.wordpress.com/

                            by demographicarmageddon on Sat Nov 30, 2013 at 11:17:32 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                      •  Also (0+ / 0-)

                        I don't care what other individuals do on their own, but I do not particularly like having to pay for tax breaks for large families like the Duggars.  At that point it no longer is a personal issue but becomes a policy one and is up for debate.

                        Don't call these racist thugs the tea party, they are *teabaggers*! Please don't insult the original Tea Party as they were patriots. Call them TeaBaggers!

                        by TeaBaggersAreRacists on Sat Nov 30, 2013 at 07:53:07 AM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                    •  so (2+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      MichaelNY, TeaBaggersAreRacists

                      by saying you're not "having kids" are you excluding adoption too? just curious.

                      Living in Kyoto-06 (Japan), voting in RI-01, went to college in IL-01.

                      by sapelcovits on Sat Nov 30, 2013 at 10:08:38 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  We would have less objection with adoption (0+ / 0-)

                        particularly since my girlfriend very much doesn't want to go through pregnancy.  

                        But our leaning right now is to be entirely child-free.

                        Don't call these racist thugs the tea party, they are *teabaggers*! Please don't insult the original Tea Party as they were patriots. Call them TeaBaggers!

                        by TeaBaggersAreRacists on Sun Dec 01, 2013 at 09:05:57 AM PST

                        [ Parent ]

        •  Actually I can see a wing of the AIP (0+ / 0-)

          pushing that as well.  David Duke made mandatory birth control for welfare recipients part of his platform for his run in Louisiana for Governor in 1991.  And supposedly his protege Woody Jenkins teamed up with a liberal feminist to introduce a more voluntary version of the idea (which I would strongly support) a year or two later.

          Don't call these racist thugs the tea party, they are *teabaggers*! Please don't insult the original Tea Party as they were patriots. Call them TeaBaggers!

          by TeaBaggersAreRacists on Fri Nov 29, 2013 at 05:53:17 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  Your AIP is not "big into the Constitution" (0+ / 0-)

      They are as anti-Constitution as it gets.  They would be basically the teabaggers today; fascist, racist, homophobic, anti-democracy.    These are types who whose goals would be a Kristallnacht against liberals, gays, and minorities; and would be quite willing to use violence to force their bigotry and hatred down the throat of unwilling Americans.

      Don't call these racist thugs the tea party, they are *teabaggers*! Please don't insult the original Tea Party as they were patriots. Call them TeaBaggers!

      by TeaBaggersAreRacists on Fri Nov 29, 2013 at 06:07:04 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Perhaps instead "big into what they think is (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        BeloitDem

        the Constitution". Though let's not forget that at the time of the framing, they were a lot more explicit about wanting to limit democracy than they are today, and a big proportion of the people who signed it held freaking slaves, so not a perfect document, and probably a bit closer to their conception of it than we'd like.

        "Pillows, but no sleep / Feathers, but no birds." | Pro-transit young black urban progressive | SSP/DKE | -9, -7.79 | NJ-05 - ! | Yard signs don't vote.

        by gabjoh on Fri Nov 29, 2013 at 07:19:34 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  actually in some aspects my AIP (0+ / 0-)

        as well as the ALP were "caricatures" of the more ideological wings of both parties. A lot of members in the AIP could say things that they couldn't say even as tea party republicans for fear of touching a third rail, such as that MLK and the Civil Rights movement were communist inspired. I also didn't mention that my AIP would be mixed towards Israel. Some would be end-timers that would definitely support Israel, while some would not support it because they see it as a "lineal descendant of the Soviet Union."

        Members of the ALP could also say things that even Prog Caucus members couldn't say such as that this country should "end deportations".

        follow me at: http://rumromerebellion.wordpress.com/

        by demographicarmageddon on Fri Nov 29, 2013 at 12:09:41 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Israel (0+ / 0-)

          I think you also forgot the wing of the teabaggers (your AIP are basically teabaggers) who wouldn't support Israel because they simply hate Jews and are Holocaust deniers.  Think neo-Nazi, KKK, and other white supremacist groups, or less extreme, those like Ron Paul.  They would find a nice home in the AIP.  

          Don't call these racist thugs the tea party, they are *teabaggers*! Please don't insult the original Tea Party as they were patriots. Call them TeaBaggers!

          by TeaBaggersAreRacists on Fri Nov 29, 2013 at 05:43:18 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  IN-02, at my house! (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ChadmanFL, MichaelNY

    I have a large extended family, but this appears to be a year where everyone is spending it with their other halves of families, so we're just hosting our immediate family this year, and we're going to visit my grandmother, who is recovering from surgery.

    I made a dish for the first time this year!

    25, Practical Progressive Democratic Socialist (-9.38, -8.51), Gay, IN-02 - Defeat Wacky Jackie!

    by HoosierD42 on Thu Nov 28, 2013 at 12:42:23 PM PST

  •  Chile elections - The left strikes back (8+ / 0-)

    Not sure if this was mentioned but the left won the Chilean elections big on 11/17.  They now have fairly solid majorities in both chambers of parliament and are near certain to win the Presidency.

    The Chamber of Deputies was essentially split 50/50 after the 2009 elections.  The new makeup is:

    New Majority (left-wing) - 67 seats
    Alliance (Right-wing) - 49 seats
    The other 4 seats were won by independents/3rd parties

    The Chilean Senate was also split almost 50/50 last election, now it's:

    New Majority (left-wing) - 21 seats
    Alliance (Right-wing) - 16 seats
    Independents - 1 seat

    In the Presidential election (to replace the current right-wing President) with many candidates running the left-wing candidate Michelle Bachelet took 47% of the vote, just shy of the 50% needed to avoid a runoff.  She'll face the right-wing Evelyn Matthei in the runoff on 12/15.  Bachelet is expected to win easily.  Nice bounce back for the left in Chile.  Just about all of South America has left-wing governments now.

    Intelligence agencies keep things secret because they often violate the rule of law or of good behavior. -Julian Assange-

    by ChadmanFL on Thu Nov 28, 2013 at 01:17:59 PM PST

    •  Unfortunately their fucked up institutions (6+ / 0-)

      require supermajorities to change things like education policy, thanks to the dictatorship and Richard Nixon. Someone posted the margins but it was something like 57-63% or something like that to do just policy not constitutional changes in areas like education. Still it's good to see and hopefully the left will help to decrease the drastic economic inequality in the country.

    •  Why is Chilean politics so dang polar? (0+ / 0-)

      I mean the left-wing parties aren't communist like they were in the early part of the Cold War and the right-wing parties aren't suppressive fascists like they were then, but still...

      "You are not machines! You are not cattle! You are men! You have the love of humanity in your hearts. You don't hate! Only the unloved hate — the unloved and the unnatural!" -Charlie Chaplin

      by KingofSpades on Thu Nov 28, 2013 at 06:00:27 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Politics in many countries are often very polar (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        MichaelNY

        especially if one major party or faction obviously stems from a former conservative authoritarian regime and the other descended from a liberal opposition. Politics is seen as a life-and-death struggle by its participants because that's what it used to be. That mentality takes a while to change after democratization.

        Taiwan and Ukraine are notable examples of this, and it sort of explains their notorious parliamentary brawls.

        23, D, pragmatic progressive (-4.50, -5.18), CA-14. DKE folk culture curator.

        by kurykh on Thu Nov 28, 2013 at 07:02:43 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  IMO it's the legacy of the Cold War (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        LordMike, MichaelNY

        During the Cold War there was no middle ground in places like South America.  You were either staunchly right-wing/fascist or communist/far-left.  South America was pretty firmly within the U.S. sphere of influence, thus nearly all the countries in the continent were right-wing/pro-U.S. dictatorships with the left suppressed brutally.  

        I think what we've seen since the end of the Cold War is a left-wing reaction to the massive inequality caused by decades of far-right/fascist rule on the continent.  And naturally a large number of the leftist politicians getting elected are former communists or ex-members of far-left insurgency groups.  For example Uruguayan President José Mujica is a former far-left guerrilla leader whose group was modeled/inspired by the Cuban Revolution.  Chile's former and soon to be once again President Michelle Bachelet was once an enemy of the Pinochet regime and lived in communist East Germany in exile.  All they did was moderate themselves to adapt to a post-Cold War, democratic society.

        Intelligence agencies keep things secret because they often violate the rule of law or of good behavior. -Julian Assange-

        by ChadmanFL on Thu Nov 28, 2013 at 08:02:39 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Thanksgiving was yesterday here (9+ / 0-)

    unfortunately can't really celebrate per se. Today I'm going to work in Kyoto-06 as usual and then going out for drinks in Kyoto-03 after.

    in a few minutes, though, I will be getting Skyped into RI-01, which will be nice.

    Living in Kyoto-06 (Japan), voting in RI-01, went to college in IL-01.

    by sapelcovits on Thu Nov 28, 2013 at 02:10:14 PM PST

  •  TX-20, TX-17, and then TX-10 (4+ / 0-)

    I had my first thanksgiving dinner with friends Tuesday night, then I'm having a thanksgiving dinner with my immediately family tonight, and another immediately after at my step-sister's place. I considered going to my aunt's place this year as well, which is in NM-2.

    23 Burkean Post Modern Gay Democrat; NM-2 (Raised), TX-20 (B.A. & M.A. in Political Science), TX-17 (Home); 08/12 PVIs

    by wwmiv on Thu Nov 28, 2013 at 03:16:50 PM PST

  •  Just ate a delicious meal (11+ / 0-)

    In New York's fantastic 12th Congressional District!

    Get the Daily Kos Elections Digest in your inbox every weekday. Sign up here.

    by David Nir on Thu Nov 28, 2013 at 04:43:39 PM PST

  •  Ate at friends' today in newly redistricted FL-08 (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    KingofSpades, MichaelNY

    formerly known as FL-15.
    Having our turkey day at home on Saturday in FL-08, Ground Zero, Valley of the War Profiteers. I have to work a few hours.
    Oh, Cong. Bill Posey, R-Original Birfer, is my rep. ::need retool::

    "He went to Harvard, not Hogwarts." ~Wanda Sykes
    Teh Twitterz, I'z awn dem.
    Blessinz of teh Ceiling Cat be apwn yu, srsly.

    by OleHippieChick on Thu Nov 28, 2013 at 05:00:53 PM PST

  •  Would vote for a candidate to ban cranberry sauce (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    LordMike

    I hate the stuff; had it a couple of times. Never again.

    Leftist Mormon in Utah, Born in Washington State, live in UT-04 (Matheson).

    by Gygaxian on Thu Nov 28, 2013 at 06:09:20 PM PST

  •  MO-1 (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ChadmanFL

    The St. Louis Democratic vote sink that gives the Republicans free reign in the rest of state, thanks to our useless governor.  We look across the river to Illinois in envy.  Despite their dis-functions, at least they aren't ruled by the Taliban in Jeff City.  Well, at least we can be thankful for Todd Akin!  Thanks for the U.S. Senate seat buddy!

    •  Nixon's been doing better in his 2nd term? (9+ / 0-)

      He aggressively and successfully defeated destructive tax cut bills.

      "You are not machines! You are not cattle! You are men! You have the love of humanity in your hearts. You don't hate! Only the unloved hate — the unloved and the unnatural!" -Charlie Chaplin

      by KingofSpades on Thu Nov 28, 2013 at 07:14:38 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  You also held the open Secretary of State position (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ArkDem14, MichaelNY, DCCyclone

      "You are not machines! You are not cattle! You are men! You have the love of humanity in your hearts. You don't hate! Only the unloved hate — the unloved and the unnatural!" -Charlie Chaplin

      by KingofSpades on Thu Nov 28, 2013 at 07:20:06 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  and held on to the Treasurer and Attorney General (4+ / 0-)

        I believe this was, indirectly, another gift from Mr. Akin.  By making himself an unacceptable choice to so many, he may have kept the Republican ticket from having larger coattails down-ballot.  By breaking up the tendency to just vote straight Republican, it may have made it easier for some voters to consider votes for the other Democratic statewide officeholders.  Maybe not many, but enough.  

    •  This fallacy comes up time and again (12+ / 0-)

      and I feel compelled to swat it down each time. Nixon in no way made any difference by allowing Republicans to pass their map. Reapportionment alone made it impossible for the 2nd district to be remotely winnable for Democrats since the 1st had to add well over 100,000 people and due to the VRA and geography was forced to add heavily Democratic portions of the St. Louis area. There is literally no way to draw the 2nd district and make it any better than 47% Obama 08, which is unwinnable, without violating the VRA or being a blatant Democratic gerrymander, which Republicans and a court would never do. Meanwhile, Nixon allowed Republicans to protect Emmanuel cleaver whose district has been moving right and only won by 8% in 2010, while we were never going to win back Ike Skelton's district so who cares if they put the most Dem parts in the 5th.

      Nixon deserves zero blame here and Democrats are very misguided to think otherwise. I've tried mapping this state so many times and there's just no other outcome but 6-2 for a non Dem gerrymandered map.

      •  I wouldn't characterize Cleaver's (0+ / 0-)

        district as moving right. It seems either stable or generally left trending, 2010 aside.

        "Once, many, many years ago I thought I was wrong. Of course it turned out I had been right all along. But I was wrong to have thought I was wrong." -John Foster Dulles. My Political Compass Score: -4.00, -3.69, Proud member of DKE

        by ArkDem14 on Thu Nov 28, 2013 at 09:11:23 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  you've clearly done your homework, but (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        gabjoh

        I still would have taken my chances on a court drawn map.  It certainly couldn't have been any worse.  As far as to protecting Clay and Cleaver, neither was ever in any danger in a general;  the real effect was to protect either of them from a primary.  Clay, in particular, is a poor campaigner and has never had any real competition in any race in his career.  This was why black democrats in the Missouri house colluded with the republicans on the map. As drawn, the first district is packed about as perfectly as any republican map drawer could possibly hope for.  I can certainly think of ways to draw the map that would have kept the city entirely in the first, while at least making the second more competitive: swapping out portions of north st louis county for south st louis county, for instance.  I assume this is where you insist that the VRA prevents this from being possible.  This, of course, is what the republicans figured out and began actively exploiting in earnest beginning with the 1992 redistricting.  The republican takeover of the House in 1994 was largely a delayed effect of this: use cover of the VRA to produce super minority-majority districts while leaving the surrounding districts whiter, and more republican.  The current republican majority in the house reflects this.  Bottom line: I want us to win. period.  And this dynamic is a major obstacle keeping that from happening.

        •  But in the primary the map wasn't better (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          DCCyclone, Skaje, gabjoh

          for Cleaver since it gave him tons of new Democratic primary voters from Ike Skelton's base. And yeah he was never going to lose in a general, but it's always nice to not have to seriously campaign versus having to fundraise more to put out ads so your opponent can't break 8%. A court map where his district is all Jackson County plus a little bit more nearby makes it at least 2% more Republican.

          Clay's district meanwhile was always going to have the entire city of St. Louis if a court drew it. They would have essentially drawn the exact same district and even if they didn't and had put the whiter parts of the city proper in the 2nd, it still wouldn't have been winnable because those areas get drowned out by the starkly red suburbs in western St. Louis County. There's just no way to make a district that Romney didn't carry by at least 6 without seriously deviating from the VRA (such as dropping the 1st to 42% black and adding white suburbs vs white inner city) and when that was the case, they got a better map than what a court would have drawn.

          Here's what I'm talking about:
           photo MOFairMapoverview_zps54a40476.png
           photo MissouriSummary_zps2939dc9c.png

          The 2nd improves just 1.5% for generic D downballot, while the 5th gets 1% worse downballot and yeah, I agree that doesn't really matter much either but it's at least better than nothing if you're a state legislator aligned with Cleaver. At the very least I don't blame anyone for supporting that map since the alternative was basically no different at all. I would encourage you to try drawing around on Dave's Redistricting App to see how limited the options are once you're forced to eliminate a district and then put most of the black population in a single district.

          •  I usually ignore FanFic maps & discussions, but... (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            gabjoh

            ...you just proved why they're worthwhile, to point out counterfactuals that validate or discredit, as the case may be, whatever was done in real life.

            And that's more than just a fantasy game.

            So thanks.

            45, male, Indian-American, married and proud father of a girl and 2 boys, Democrat, VA-10

            by DCCyclone on Fri Nov 29, 2013 at 11:49:36 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  I don't think that map is that helpful (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              gabjoh

              because it is one possible version of what could have been drawn. A court-drawn map could have had a district a Democrat could have won, just not Russ Carnahan.

              ...better the occasional faults of a government that lives in a spirit of charity, than the consistent omissions of a government frozen in the ice of its own indifference. -FDR, 1936

              by James Allen on Fri Nov 29, 2013 at 12:40:18 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  I don't think that's right (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                DCCyclone

                I've played around with this before and it's almost impossible to draw a non-gerrymandered VRA-compliant map where the South St. Louis seat is more than 49% Obama 2008. Even this map is pretty unrealistic because it assumes that the court attaches swingy Jefferson county and about 80k people in heavily democratic white bits of South St. Louis City rather than heavily Republican bits of Western St. Louis County. It seems much more likely that the court would put all of St. Louis city with the 1st and put all of St. Louis county in the 2nd rather than leaving parts out.

                Given the declines in Jefferson county and blue collar South St. Louis County Romney would have won this very favorable this district pretty comfortably in 2012.

                 photo bestcourtmap.png

                27, originally OK-1, currently NY-10. Former swingnut.

                by okiedem on Fri Nov 29, 2013 at 01:39:28 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  no, a Democrat could have won a district (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  shyewoods

                  at the same time Romney won it, depending on where it is. And you may think its unlikely but courts have chosen maps that I thought were ridiculous. We never know what a court will think is appropriate until it picks one.
                  I don't think we would have to be limited to districts Obama won in either 2008 or 2012. We keep winning elections statewide in a state Obama never won. We could win districts that were not too bad Obama losses depending on where they are in the state. Not with Russ Carnahan, though, and we'd probably need an open race.

                  ...better the occasional faults of a government that lives in a spirit of charity, than the consistent omissions of a government frozen in the ice of its own indifference. -FDR, 1936

                  by James Allen on Fri Nov 29, 2013 at 02:23:43 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

  •  I wonder how UT-04 will be affected by the AG race (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    MichaelNY

    in 2014 or vice versa, since the special election will take place at the same time as the hyped Matheson vs Love rematch. It seems the kind of people who would vote for Matheson would also vote for a "good government" Democrat.

    Leftist Mormon in Utah, Born in Washington State, live in UT-04 (Matheson).

    by Gygaxian on Thu Nov 28, 2013 at 10:17:24 PM PST

  •  Now (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Gygaxian, MichaelNY, DCCyclone, betelgeux

    that Thanksgiving is over, it's time to kick off the 75th annual Hunger Games War on Christmas. Already we're receiving news that Santa's Army suffered a devastating defeat at the hands of the Obama--European Socialist--Atheist Alliance (OESAA).

    The Republican party is now an extreme right-wing party that is owned by their billionaire campaign contributors. - Bernie Sanders

    by ehstronghold on Thu Nov 28, 2013 at 11:44:45 PM PST

  •  NY-10 (0+ / 0-)

    My girlfriend is in the 10th District. I'm in the 12th. I hope everyone had a good day today!

    Formerly Pan on Swing State Project

    by MichaelNY on Fri Nov 29, 2013 at 01:19:54 AM PST

  •  FL-21 (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    MichaelNY

    Cong. Ted Deutch. A REALLY good guy!!!

  •  MA 5, i'm waiting for Katherine Clark to win (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    MichaelNY
  •  MN-6 (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    MichaelNY

    Just about everyone in my family still lives around the St. Cloud area, our little bastion of blue in Bachmann land.  Both grandparent's house, 40 or so relatives to chat with, two meals only 4 hours spaced apart.  Had a great puke session at 4am this morning from being so uncomfortably full.  So worth it.

  •  I have to say (9+ / 0-)

    it's getting very tiresome to see the pro-gun users showing up every time discussion of the Colorado recalls comes up.  I'm fine with them expressing their views...we have a big-tent party and there are Democrats of many different flavors.  That's all perfectly fine, and many of us have our own particular deviations from liberal consensus.

    But what many of the pro-gun users do in the recall threads is very close to crowing over the defeats of Democrats and the threatening of the Dem majority.  Many of them come across as concern trolls, wherein they claim to be concerned that gun control is going to cost Democrats, but it comes across as insincere.  Functionally, their comments are no different from that of a Republican troll.

    It is one thing to be a pro-gun Democrat, it is another thing to disrupt and derail threads that are related to gun control.  If I was a pro-life Dem, it would be trolling for me to go into threads and start talking about how being pro-choice is hurting the party, or how pro-choice Dems deserve to be recalled, or that Democrats should just surrender to Republicans on this issue.  It would be extreme trolling on my part to start peddling talking points about abortion being murder, and life starting at fertilization.

    Yet the pro-gun Democrats are able to do all that with impunity.

    •  Are you sure they're pro-gun? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      gabjoh

      Or just concerned about Dems losing control of the state government?  I didn't read all of the comments, but some of the ones you seem to be concerned about make sense, IMO.  The gun issue has obviously been a loser for Democrats in Colorado.

      •  Regardless (0+ / 0-)

        They are advocating doing nothing instead. The result of such inaction is the same whatever their actual position. It isn't like House Democrats wasting their votes on Cap and Trade. And the bigger problem is still unbalanced enthusiasm causing low turnout in non-presidential elections.

        "What do you mean "conspiracy"? Does that mean it's someone's imaginings and that the actual polls hovered right around the result?" - petral

        by conspiracy on Fri Nov 29, 2013 at 01:10:00 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  If they're not (6+ / 0-)

        they're indistinguishable from the extremists on this issue right down to the talking points, including the conclusions that the recalls mean that the gun laws are widely hated and that Dems in Colorado are doomed forevermore, plus using terms like "subverting the Constitution" and grabbing peoples' rights", even though the laws themselves are fairly innocuous with broad majority support, while the recall results are related more to an enthusiasm gap in a low turnout special than anything.  

      •  The problem with that (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        James Allen, redrelic17, LordMike

        is that we've seen all that before for other issues.  People concerned that healthcare reform will doom Democrats.  People concerned that gay rights will doom Democrats.  People concerned that being pro-choice will doom Democrats.  People concerned about our positions on taxing the rich, on the death penalty, on drug decriminalization, on trade policy, on immigration...ultimately they need to recognize that these are planks of the Dem platform and that we can't abandon them just because it upsets a few Democrats, or doesn't poll well currently.  The party itself is a big tent, but there have to be agreed upon goals when Democrats are in charge, otherwise what's the point of winning elections?

      •  They are gun nuts (0+ / 0-)

        I've gotten the overwhelming majority of my HRs from those nutcases, something I wear as a badge of honor.

        The "Right to Keep and Bear Arms" extremists should be banned.

        Don't call these racist thugs the tea party, they are *teabaggers*! Please don't insult the original Tea Party as they were patriots. Call them TeaBaggers!

        by TeaBaggersAreRacists on Fri Nov 29, 2013 at 06:00:28 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  This site isn't an anti-gun site (0+ / 0-)

          And this sub-site is about analyzing campaigns and elections. So I see no reason why someone who follows the NRA line should be banned.

          Formerly Pan on Swing State Project

          by MichaelNY on Sat Nov 30, 2013 at 04:06:34 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Well because they aren't discussing (0+ / 0-)

            campaigns and elections, except peripherally to express their opposition to Ds who support gun control.  They are simply pushing a pro-NRA anti-D line, the latter which is firmly against the rules of the general site.  Furthermore, they repeatedly hijack diaries and gang up against those who support gun control.

            And their nonsense isn't limited to Daily Kos elections.  They have engaged in very hostile behavior elsewhere at Daily Kos.  Kos should ban them directly.

            Don't call these racist thugs the tea party, they are *teabaggers*! Please don't insult the original Tea Party as they were patriots. Call them TeaBaggers!

            by TeaBaggersAreRacists on Sat Nov 30, 2013 at 06:26:14 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

      •  I think turnout is the bigger problem. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        MichaelNY

        These recalls seem to really turnout the pro-gun side while everyone else seems to have a "meh" reaction if any to them.

        D in FL at the SSP.

        by Avedee on Sat Nov 30, 2013 at 04:10:12 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Couldn't agree more (5+ / 0-)

      The bile in that morning digest is quite something.

      "What do you mean "conspiracy"? Does that mean it's someone's imaginings and that the actual polls hovered right around the result?" - petral

      by conspiracy on Fri Nov 29, 2013 at 01:13:32 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  I agree (7+ / 0-)

      On the live thread a few weeks ago those clowns were gloating over Dems losing. I would have banned them straight up.

      SSP poster. 44, CA-6, -0.25/-3.90

      by sacman701 on Fri Nov 29, 2013 at 01:22:01 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  I didn't notice that until your comment (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      wwmiv, psychicpanda, LordMike, Avedee

      I rarely even glance at that morning digest anymore, I stick with DKE live digests and open threads.  I just got tired of comments by people who don't really follow campaigns and elections, plus the morning digest really mostly just rehashes news from the previous day's live digest.

      But this was news to me.

      Colorado Dems are in a uniquely vulnerable position this cycle.  And it's not all turnout related.  Angela Giron's seat is very heavily Democratic and she got pasted, indicating a lot of pro-gun Democrats live in that particular district who voted against their own party in a rare instance.

      There are a few pockets of America where a lot of Democrats who are otherwise liberal are still strongly pro-gun.  And Colorado obviously has some of those pockets.

      45, male, Indian-American, married and proud father of a girl and 2 boys, Democrat, VA-10

      by DCCyclone on Fri Nov 29, 2013 at 01:44:43 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  You can tell where those pockets of pro-gun Dems (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        LordMike, jncca

        are by looking at which Democratic Congressmen in solidly blue districts have high NRA ratings:

        Washington/Oregon: Kilmer, Heck, Schrader, Defazio
        Texas/New Mexico/Colorado: Cuellar, Lujans, Udalls
        Maine/Vermont: Michaud, Welch
        Alabama: Sewell

    •  yeah I don't really care about gun control (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      BeloitDem, LordMike, sapelcovits

      but they're annoying as hell.

      ...better the occasional faults of a government that lives in a spirit of charity, than the consistent omissions of a government frozen in the ice of its own indifference. -FDR, 1936

      by James Allen on Fri Nov 29, 2013 at 02:25:20 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  damn it I just got psyched (0+ / 0-)

    because I found a precinct map for a county that I didn't have before. Then I see it's out of date and I can't use it for my data. It doesn't even have the same number of precincts.

    ...better the occasional faults of a government that lives in a spirit of charity, than the consistent omissions of a government frozen in the ice of its own indifference. -FDR, 1936

    by James Allen on Fri Nov 29, 2013 at 02:48:24 PM PST

  •  NC-AG: Sen. Josh Stein announces run... (0+ / 0-)

    http://www.newsobserver.com/...

    Before his election to the Senate in 2008, Stein worked in the AG's office for seven years, so it sounds like he has the experience necessary for the job.

    Question, though, for anyone who may know more about the legal system in NC than I do:  If Ervin wins the judicial race next year, and Dems hold on to all of their other seats (thus regaining a majority on the court), is there a pretty good chance we see mid-decade redistricting with a court-drawn map?

  •  kos fundraising pitch (0+ / 0-)

    I wonder if the dip in advertising is what led to not doing the state polling the site was supposed to do in 2012?

    David could this drop in revenue affect your continued work here?

    32/D/M/NY-01/SSP&RRH: Tekzilla

    by Socks The Cat on Fri Nov 29, 2013 at 04:24:58 PM PST

  •  DRA question (0+ / 0-)

    has anyone had an "error opening file" or something like that with a file, and later been able to open it without error? Otherwise that map I was working on to convert precinct results on to DRA is gone.

    ...better the occasional faults of a government that lives in a spirit of charity, than the consistent omissions of a government frozen in the ice of its own indifference. -FDR, 1936

    by James Allen on Fri Nov 29, 2013 at 05:11:59 PM PST

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