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Interesting but not surprising article on HP:

One in three Americans doesn't believe in evolution, according to new survey results from the Pew Research Center.

The results, released Monday in report on views about human evolution, show that 33 percent of Americans think "humans and other living things have existed in their present form since the beginning of time."

I grew up Congregational Protestant. I believe their is a God but not in the way the bible describes God (My beliefs are probably closer to quantum mechanics).

I believe Jesus existed. Was he the son of God? To me, it doesn't matter. What matters are the good intentions and teachings of how to treat others. If he was just another prophet that's fine.

I believe the entire first testament are parables, not real stories. Sure, there may have been a Moses but, just like anything human beings pass down either verbal or written, nothing is verbatim and things get changed to include superstition, politics, you name it (I don't believe, as some do, that those long before us were so much better at keeping history than we are now).

Adam and Eve? Parable. Not true. Cain and Able? Not true. Noah? For God's sake.

And I also believe in evolution. Completely. Without reservation.

...and I believe all these beliefs can exist side by side with each other without an entire belief system blowing up due to its fragility.

I just cannot understand the mental stupidity of someone who, knowing what we know now, can argue that we have not evolved from smart but limited little creatures to what we are today (and, lets face it, some of us still ARE limited little creatures). No surprise that most are evangelical republicans.

But, then again, I've actually thought about what I was taught in church and questioned it. Lets face it - if religion is too fragile to be held up to scrutiny then thats evidence right there that you're in trouble.

I cannot purport to know everything there is about the universe, even if I agree with common logic. Honestly, nobody can (not even some groups of atheists, who - lets face it - get off on telling those who believe in some elements of religion that we are all stupid). But I'd be hard pressed to believe that we were developed fully cro-magnon from the get-go. That's just bonkers - and reinforces my belief that some of us haven't evolved all that much.

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Comment Preferences

  •  i believe (10+ / 0-)

    I'll have another scotch.

    I just read the Talking Points Memo story here.

    What we call god is merely a living creature with superior technology & understanding. If their fragile egos demand prayer, they lose that superiority.

    by agnostic on Mon Dec 30, 2013 at 10:40:28 AM PST

    •  I'm with ya ... Could it be that the absolute (9+ / 0-)

      numbers of GOPers has gone down commensurately? So that the percentages look so bad? Maybe? Bueller?

      I'll do anything to get over the fact that there is a non-trivial minority in our country who are consciously becoming stupid out of spite.

    •  Louie Gohmert... (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      agnostic, Aunt Pat, wilderness voice

      pretty much proves Darwin wrong.  Not sure what his existence says about any other theory or religion, but he definitly is not the next step after Einstein.  

      Einstein’s Theory of Relative Stupidity: Anyone who attempts to make George Bush look like a frigging genius, will end up looking like George Bush.

      by quiet in NC on Mon Dec 30, 2013 at 11:46:54 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I know your comment was snark (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Aunt Pat

        but why would you expect Gomert to represent a step in either direction from Einstien?  That is not how evolution works.

        As my father used to say,"We have the best government money can buy."

        by BPARTR on Mon Dec 30, 2013 at 12:22:52 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  The most shocking thing? (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      BPARTR, Aunt Pat, wilderness voice, OHdog

      Acceptance of evolution by natural selection has actually dropped 10 points among Republicans in the last four years!  Only 43% believe in human evolution, versus 54% in 2009.

      I guess this demonstrates that the politics of group identity trumps everything else.  There's no other reason why acceptance of what is simply a fact would drop like that.

      57% of the GOP should be automatically disqualified from any vote or even opinion regarding health care, science funding, emergency response or planning, decisions over a woman's right to choose, basically anything at all dealing with human biology.

      “If the misery of the poor be caused not by the laws of nature, but by our institutions, great is our sin.” Charles Darwin

      by ivorybill on Mon Dec 30, 2013 at 12:04:50 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  It can also mean that sane folks (6+ / 0-)

        who understand what is meant by evolution, are so fucking fed up with today's gnu and depraved GOP, that they are leaving in droves. The ones that still remain, and those who still dare self-identify as GO P-ers are more conservative only because the moderates and liberals (dear gawd, what AM I saying?) of the GOP have left.

        What we call god is merely a living creature with superior technology & understanding. If their fragile egos demand prayer, they lose that superiority.

        by agnostic on Mon Dec 30, 2013 at 12:43:51 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Humans haven't even existed in their current form (8+ / 0-)

    for a thousand years.

    A comparatively recent improvement in some human populations' immunological response is thought to be associated with the various medieval plagues. We evolved.

    Rick Perry - the greatest scientist since Galileo!

    by Bobs Telecaster on Mon Dec 30, 2013 at 10:55:58 AM PST

  •  People have believed in gods (3+ / 0-)

    for thousands of years.  It is difficult to change beliefs that are passed down from generation to generation.

    Darwin's theory of evolution has only been around since 1859. So evolution is still comparably young.  

    Frustrating as that is, change takes time. Science, however, usually has a way of winning out in the end.  So I don't despair too much.

    Every great cause begins as a movement, becomes a business, and eventually degenerates into a racket. Eric Hoffer

    by LynChi on Mon Dec 30, 2013 at 10:57:51 AM PST

    •  Even the way we talk about evolution (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      jacque00, radmul

      is wrong. You don't "believe in evolution" as a matter of faith, if you're a rational scientific thinker.

      If you think education is expensive, wait until you see how much ignorance costs in the 21st century. --PBO

      by kismet on Mon Dec 30, 2013 at 12:37:34 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  That is such a great point (0+ / 0-)

        You don't beleive in a sctientific theory. To me evolution is a fact, conclusion.. When does a therory graduate to a conclusion and it seems as though evoultion should havenhad more then enough evidence to move from theory to conclusion.. It's too bad that it blows up the religious worlds literal interruption of the bible.. Scientist shouldn't have to deal with the charlatans and their politics..

  •  What a (non)surprise that these two groups (14+ / 0-)

    would overlap ("Non-believers" and GOP).  

    It's a small quibble, but words matter in these games with the Talibangelicals, so...it really frosts my flakes to hear someone say they "believe" in evolution.  Nonsense and fiddle-faddle!  Belief is for religion.  Understanding is for science.  I don't "believe" in evolution; I UNDERSTAND evolution.

    When we use the term "believe in evolution" we have already ceded ground.  We have allowed the fundies to drag their beliefs into an arena that was settled decades ago by scientists with armloads of data and models that work in the real world.  

    Any time you allow the word "believe" into a debate, you open the door for the words "I DON'T" to be plunked in front of it without consequence or justification.  It's someone's belief, after all.  Logic can't argue with beliefs.

       

    "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle stand like a rock." Attributed to T. Jefferson

    by koosah on Mon Dec 30, 2013 at 11:09:59 AM PST

  •  Heh... 8 in 10 Americans believe in angels (6+ / 0-)

    and almost half believe in UFO's.

    (I'm probably going to get some feedback on those right here in DKos)

    BTW, we will have to change the picture showing the evolution of man by adding several more figures showing it regressing back to the ape.

    Here's some of the stranger ones: (I especially like the teeny, tiny fetuses ;)

    10 Weirdest Fundamentalist Christian Conspiracy Theories
    The world of fundamentalist Christians is crawling with conspiracy theories, urban legends, and just plain bizarre beliefs.

    September 4, 2013

    For the Christian right, having a “faith-based” worldview extends far beyond claims about demons and angels. Unsurprisingly, the world of fundamentalist Christians is absolutely crawling with conspiracy theories, urban legends, and just plain bizarre beliefs about how the world works. Here’s a list of 10 of the weirder ones are currently in circulation.

  •  If the theory of evolution required me to BELIEVE (11+ / 0-)

    in it--like Christianity requires me to believe in God--then I wouldn't believe in evolution.
    Natural selection is not a faith based ideology. It's simply a description of observable phenomena.
    The battle here isn't about science vs religion. It's about how we interpret the Book of  Genesis.  Is its description of God's creation literal or metaphorical and allegorical?

    -4.38, -7.64 Voyager 1: proof that what goes up never comes down.

    by pat bunny on Mon Dec 30, 2013 at 11:12:16 AM PST

    •  I believe you're correct.... (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      MPociask, celdd, pat bunny
    •  From Neil Gaiman, American Gods (9+ / 0-)

      Sorry for the length, but it has to all be there to - make sense[?]

      I can believe things that are true and things that aren't true and I can believe things where nobody knows if they're true or not.

      I can believe in Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny and the Beatles and Marilyn Monroe and Elvis and Mister Ed. Listen - I believe that people are perfectable, that knowledge is infinite, that the world is run by secret banking cartels and is visited by aliens on a regular basis, nice ones that look like wrinkled lemurs and bad ones who mutilate cattle and want our water and our women.

      I believe that the future sucks and I believe that the future rocks and I believe that one day White Buffalo Woman is going to come back and kick everyone's ass. I believe that all men are just overgrown boys with deep problems communicating and that the decline in good sex in America is coincident with the decline in drive-in movie theaters from state to state.

      I believe that all politicians are unprincipled crooks and I still believe that they are better than the alternative. I believe that California is going to sink into the sea when the big one comes, while Florida is going to dissolve into madness and alligators and toxic waste.

      I believe that antibacterial soap is destroying our resistance to dirt and disease so that one day we'll all be wiped out by the common cold like martians in War of the Worlds.

      I believe that the greatest poets of the last century were Edith Sitwell and Don Marquis, that jade is dried dragon sperm, and that thousands of years ago in a former life I was a one-armed Siberian shaman.

      I believe that mankind's destiny lies in the stars. I believe that candy really did taste better when I was a kid, that it's aerodynamically impossible for a bumble bee to fly, that light is a wave and a particle, that there's a cat in a box somewhere who's alive and dead at the same time (although if they don't ever open the box to feed it it'll eventually just be two different kinds of dead), and that there are stars in the universe billions of years older than the universe itself.

      I believe in a personal god who cares about me and worries and oversees everything I do. I believe in an impersonal god who set the universe in motion and went off to hang with her girlfriends and doesn't even know that I'm alive. I believe in an empty and godless universe of causal chaos, background noise, and sheer blind luck.

      I believe that anyone who says sex is overrated just hasn't done it properly. I believe that anyone who claims to know what's going on will lie about the little things too.

      I believe in absolute honesty and sensible social lies. I believe in a woman's right to choose, a baby's right to live, that while all human life is sacred there's nothing wrong with the death penalty if you can trust the legal system implicitly, and that no one but a moron would ever trust the legal system.

      I believe that life is a game, that life is a cruel joke, and that life is what happens when you're alive and that you might as well lie back and enjoy it.

      “We can always count on the Americans to do the right thing, after they have exhausted all the other possibilities.” - Winston Chuchill

      by se portland on Mon Dec 30, 2013 at 11:29:06 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Republicans have gotten worse (7+ / 0-)

    The article says the percentage dropped from 54% believing in evolution to 43%.

    Apparently anything the other side believes, they have to disbelieve, no matter what evidence exists for it.

  •  I am not sure I believe in evolution (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Patriot4peace, pat bunny

    There certainly is not any evidence of it with Republicans.

    What did the Bible say? 'Ye shall know the truth and the truth shall be rejected.'

    “We can always count on the Americans to do the right thing, after they have exhausted all the other possibilities.” - Winston Chuchill

    by se portland on Mon Dec 30, 2013 at 11:17:49 AM PST

  •  Overwhelming (0+ / 0-)

    Preponderance of evidence vs. overwhelming numbers of "true believers"

    There are none so blind as those that will not see.

    We've been spelling it wrong all these years. It's actually: PRO-GOP-ANDA

    by Patriot4peace on Mon Dec 30, 2013 at 11:30:08 AM PST

  •  Smart people are not immune from strange beliefs (0+ / 0-)

    The following is a very good article by Michael Shermer, Editor-in-Chief of Skeptic magazine.

    Why People Believe Weird Things: Excerpt
    ...
    An Easy Answer to a Hard Question

        “The gentleman has eaten no small quantity of flapdoodle in his lifetime.”
        “What’s that, O’Brien?” replied I …
        “Why, Peter,” rejoined he, “it’s the stuff they feed fools on.”

        — P. Simple, Marryat, 1833

    It is a given assumption in the skeptical movement — elevated to a maxim really — that intelligence and education serve as an impenetrable prophylactic against the flim flam that we assume the unintelligent and uneducated masses swallow with credulity. Indeed, at the Skeptics Society we invest considerable resources in educational materials distributed to schools and the media under the assumption that this will make a difference in our struggle against pseudoscience and superstition. These efforts do make a difference, particularly for those who are aware of the phenomena we study but have not heard a scientific explanation for them, but are the cognitive elite protected against the nonsense that passes for sense in our culture? Is flapdoodle the fodder for only fools? The answer is no. The question is why?

    For those of us in the business of debunking bunk and explaining the unexplained, this is what I call the Hard Question: why do smart people believe weird things? My Easy Answer will seem somewhat paradoxical at first: Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons.
    ...

  •  Lie of the Year (0+ / 0-)

    Recent genetic research has shown that humans interbred with Denisovans and Neanderthals.  Thus, the iconic graphic showing a monkey evolving into a modern human - in one continuous line - is false.  Therefore, Evolution is a lie.    

    West. No further west. All sea. --Robert Grenier

    by Nicolas Fouquet on Mon Dec 30, 2013 at 11:35:49 AM PST

    •  I am a Tuscan swamp ape (Oreopithecus bambolii) (3+ / 0-)

      currently breeding with a human.
      You should see our children.

      -4.38, -7.64 Voyager 1: proof that what goes up never comes down.

      by pat bunny on Mon Dec 30, 2013 at 11:43:02 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  ...and 20 years from now... (0+ / 0-)

      something will be discovered that alters that belief. Logical conclusions are out there for others to see and it's always be a mystery to me why some of this isn't common sense:

      Could the fact that earth's continents connect pretty closely like a puzzle when put together be ignored? 20 years ago, sure. Today, of course no.

      I remember as a kid no one could piece together why dinosaurs died off other than "it was the result of the ice age." Why didn't meteor's factor into that equation back then?

      "It doesn't matter whether you win or lose. It's how you ladle the gravy." - Felix Ungar

      by Verbalpaintball on Mon Dec 30, 2013 at 11:47:04 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  But their offspring died out (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Verbalpaintball

      Everyone on earth has evolved from Mitochondrial Eve and Y-chromosomal Adam according to recent DNA research. Watch the religious fundies latch on to this one without understanding the entire concept.

      Mitochondrial Eve

      Mitochondrial Eve is estimated to have lived between 140,000 and 200,000 years ago,[3][4] most likely in East Africa,[5] when Homo sapiens sapiens (anatomically modern humans) were developing as a population distinct from other human sub-species.

      Mitochondrial Eve lived later than Homo heidelbergensis and the emergence of Homo neanderthalensis, but earlier than the out of Africa migration.[6] The dating for "Eve" was a blow to the multiregional hypothesis, and a boost to the hypothesis of the origin of modern humans in Africa and spread from there, replacing more "archaic" human populations such as Neanderthals. As a result, the latter hypothesis became dominant.

      Analogous to Mitochondrial Eve, Y-chromosomal Adam is the man from whom all living humans are descended patrilineally. The inherited DNA in the male case is his nuclear Y chromosome, rather than the mtDNA. There is no reason why Mitochondrial Eve and Y-chromosomal Adam should necessarily have lived at the same time.[7] Y-chromosomal Adam had been estimated to have lived during a wide range of times from 180,000 to 581,000 years ago,[8][9][10] and another living between 120,000 and 156,000 years.[11][12]

    •  That simple straight line graphic... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Darmok

      never captured the complexity of our heritage anyway. Nobody talks about their "family ladder", it's a family tree. Terms like "evolutionary ladder" just perpetuate this kind of confusion in people who've never really looked into it. I've been asked, in all sincerity, "If we evolved from monkeys, then how come there's still monkeys?"

      One good thing about music, when it hits you feel no pain -Bob Marley

      by Darwinian Detritus on Mon Dec 30, 2013 at 12:00:22 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Why are Americans so fundamentalist? (0+ / 0-)

    European Christians have no problems reconciling biblical teaching with scientific theory. The seven days to create the world are Earthly 24 hour periods, but a dramatic illusion to illustrate a process. After all an Earth day is a different time from say a Mars day or a Saturn day.

    The story of Noah is obviously an allegory - after all Noah didn't have CNN, so it was impossible for him to know if the US or Japan was flooded at the same time. As for the animals 2 by 2, how big a ship would you need to put all the species in the world on board in pairs? Did he pop down to Sumatra to get a pair of tigers, or Australia to get a couple of kangaroos and koalas? And if he couldn't fit them all on board, how did they subsequently develop - hyper evolution? However, a farmer putting a couple of cows, sheep and chickens on a raft is perfectly feasible. Noah's world was probably limited to around 15 miles around his house.

    Maybe fundamentalist is a synonym for shit for brains.

    •  What's the Difference? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      emelyn
      European Christians have no problems reconciling biblical teaching with scientific theory. The seven days to create the world are Earthly 24 hour periods, but a dramatic illusion to illustrate a process. After all an Earth day is a different time from say a Mars day or a Saturn day.
      Whether you think it took God 7 days or a billion years to create the earth, you're equally incorrect.  Why quibble around the edges with dates?
    •  The Other Name For Them: Evangelicals (0+ / 0-)

      They're an aggressively imperialistic faith.

      But the rightwing recruited them for political purposes some 40 years ago. Based on the way they've evolved to my eyes as an infrequent visitor over that time span, I strongly suspect conservative forces have helped nurture their growth.

      We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

      by Gooserock on Mon Dec 30, 2013 at 11:54:04 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  If the wreck (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      peterfallow

      Of Noah's ark settled atop Mt Ararat, the water would have had to have been nearly 17000 feet over sea level.  

      Since water can't escape the atmosphere, we seem to be missing some of that rainfall.

      Average depth, for example, of the Mediterranean Sea is 5000 feet.

      Where did all that water go?

      We've been spelling it wrong all these years. It's actually: PRO-GOP-ANDA

      by Patriot4peace on Mon Dec 30, 2013 at 12:10:42 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Breaking: Water is wet and bears go in the woods. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    pat bunny, se portland

    And allegedly the Pope is Catholic, but this new one seems to have a bug about social justice, so we'll see.

    Happy little moron, Lucky little man.
    I wish I was a moron, MY GOD, Perhaps I am!
    —Spike Milligan

    by polecat on Mon Dec 30, 2013 at 11:41:01 AM PST

  •  To me the belief is not the problem (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    LynChi

    Whether you believe in God or not isn't the real issue.  The problem arises when you try to shove your personal belief down everyone's throats.

    Mr. Boehner, where are the jobs?

    by Tx LIberal on Mon Dec 30, 2013 at 11:45:33 AM PST

  •  Don't "believe" in evolution. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    polecat

    Evolution is science. Science does not ask for belief. Science in fact rewards skepticism. Evolution is a theory that has been proven repeatedly by experiment. It demands acceptance until a better theory comes along. But no one should "believe" in it or accept it on faith. The best way to prove it is true is to keep questioning it and testing it.

    Whenever I see these polls asking whether people believe in evolution, I just shake my head, because I think that's not even a coherent question.  Better to ask people if they understand the theory of evolution, or if they respect science.

  •  I don't "believe" in Evolution (0+ / 0-)

    Evolution is an in-depth scientific theory that has been proven over and over again.  I accept it as fact.  Therefore, I don't have to 'believe' it any more than I have to believe in the law of gravity.  
    What I consign to belief are myths, old wives tales, religious dogma, the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus.  

  •  It's Not Really Ignorance, It's Bedrock Opposition (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    se portland

    They oppose the entire concept.

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Mon Dec 30, 2013 at 11:55:57 AM PST

  •  IIRC (0+ / 0-)

    This is actually much-improved from previous surveys. From what I recall, last time they did this poll, it was around half of America didn't accept evolution.

    It doesn't make any sense to me. We're hairless, talking chimps, for all intents and purposes. It's honestly kind of cool.

    •  Bonobos are our closest relatives. We share 99.6% (0+ / 0-)

      of our DNA with them as well as a considerable amount of behavioral traits.

      Send this to your fundie friends if you want to see their heads explode:
       

      Our Orgastic Future
      ...
      Bonobo society is based on cooperation and empathy; the culture is a matriarchy where competition is redirected into a communitarian sexual appetite. Bonobos also shocked these earliest scientists because they possessed a cheerful sense of general promiscuity, weaving wanton sex into their society, and they boasted a sexual repertoire once thought to be the exclusive property of Homo sapiens—deep kissing, foreplay, oral sex, homosexuality, and polyamory.

      Which is why bonobos have gained a certain notoriety in the animal kingdom and are so often bracketed by a kind of ridicule whenever some story about them appears in the paper. “Hippie apes,” one headline will read; another is bemused by “swinger” primate—the suggestion always that what you are about to read is obviously some peripheral fluke in the otherwise bloody contest for resources and mates. And yet, some of the recent work in evolutionary biology suggests that bonobos reveal not some comically marginalized human trait but, possibly, the very mark on the long arc that leads to our humanity.

      No description, academic or otherwise, can quite do justice to the comedy that is bonobo sex. On a hilarity scale of one to ten, most animal sex trends quickly toward ten. Bonobo sex goes to eleven. Throughout the day, males and females, adolescents and elders alike greet one another sexually for apparently almost any reason—and do so with everything from a quick feel, to porn-style choreographies, to elaborately athletic couplings. This feature—the variety of their easygoing sex life—is what led Duke primatologist Vanessa Woods to cheekily title her book about them Bonobo Handshake. Bonobos have deployed their elaborate sexual toolkit to ease all kinds of social transitions—ranging from saying good morning to giving the blessing before dinner to expressing a hearty welcome to a new member of the group. Females will casually present themselves to males. The male will walk right up to a female without any hesitation. All bonobos frequently have homosexual sex—the males being quite fond of hanging upside down, face to face, from a tree and engaging in what the gay community calls frottage (some primatologists call it “penis fencing”; to most teenagers it’s better known as dry humping.)

  •  well actually (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Claudius Bombarnac

    although it is true to say that  we

    evolved from smart but limited little creature
    the full story is that we evolved from insensate single cell organisms which evolved from self replicating macro molecules which evolved from individual elements.

     

    As my father used to say,"We have the best government money can buy."

    by BPARTR on Mon Dec 30, 2013 at 12:21:49 PM PST

  •  I don't believe in evolution either.... (0+ / 0-)

    Look at the Republicans - their brains are still stuck in the 19th century and their answer to everything is "well, just blow it up."

  •  Raised a Catholic (0+ / 0-)

    Graduated from a Catholic high school. Taught evolution in biology class by a nun.

    The darkness drops again but now I know That twenty centuries of stony sleep Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle, And what rough beast, its hour come round at last, Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born? William Butler Yeats

    by deepsouthdoug on Mon Dec 30, 2013 at 01:37:48 PM PST

  •  The poll question is rather bogus (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    LeighAnn

    It asks if humans have evolved and it can be interpreted as "Have humans evolved since humans emerged?".  (and yes, I know there isn't a moment or point where humans "emerged").

    The poll questions could be much better.  They didn't ask, for example, "Do you believe in biological evolution and natural selection?"

    Or, "Have humans and other species evolved from common ancestors?"

    To be clear, I'm criticizing the poll questions.  I think they could be a lot better and less open to ambiguity.

    Republicans: Taking the country back ... to the 19th century

    by yet another liberal on Mon Dec 30, 2013 at 01:38:59 PM PST

  •  Thanks for articulating my positions exactly (0+ / 0-)

    If you replace "grew up Congregational Protestant" with "grew up liberal Lutheran" you have my position exactly.  I cannot find another single word of disagreement between us.

    Ted Cruz: The second coming of Christ, but not quite as good as Reagan (yet).

    by nuketeacher on Mon Dec 30, 2013 at 04:24:19 PM PST

  •  Are such polls useful? (0+ / 0-)

    I dont think the response to this poll has anything to do with belief systems.  It has more to do with the polarization of the US population.  It is really a question of justification of the limbic system response to a classification of "other" to many people that answer the question.  Evolution is something those "liberals" believe in - therefore I do not. There is no reasoning involved here.  There is no nuance.  Moreover, if one sits down and discusses without the use of any "branded" phrase and concepts, I would wager that many more of the evangelicals would be accepting of the concepts that human kind - in its physical state - has changed over time. But today we do spend rather a lot of time defining what we are and arent based on what we want to call ourselves - the team we play for. This requires a commitment to specific idealogical models that may or may not make any sense to us. For instance, there isnt anything in the Bible that I can find that cant be reasoned to be consistent with evolutionary principles and observation - as long as it isnt taken literally.  But a mind bent toward authority and having decided which side it is already on - would see this quite differently. Our free market, supply side religions in the US play strongly into this hysteria.  When was the last time you hear a minister say he/she didnt know the mind of God?  Of course not!  They always know. People dont put money into collection plates of the unsure. So what you really have in this poll  is simply the percentage of people that want - need - authority and have decided which authority they will follow. The rest is simply justification for their choice.

  •  It is astonishing (0+ / 0-)

    That so many people have fallen behind. I hope the question comes up during 2016 GOP debates and Huckabee is right there to tell the world where he comes down on it.. hehe, that is such a painful question for the pubs.

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