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Charlie Butchart-Cullen, 3, and her sister Sophia Butchart-Cullen, 1, sit in a wagon at the LA Pride parade in West Hollywood, California, June 10, 2012. The parade is part of the annual Los Angeles lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender pride celebration
At times in our society we may believe that we are insulated from the hate that others spew forth into our world. This is sadly not the case even in liberal NY where homophobia is still regarded as an acceptable worldview. It boggles me how bigots minds work.  You think that if you live in a place like NY then you are in such a diverse melting pot that these types of beliefs don't exist here. Discrimination can only occur in OTHER places like Alabama or Mississippi or states that have traditionally been against any type of social integration.

Well my answer is that bigotry can happen anywhere and still does.

 Bless their hearts.

Link to the story over at

A mom in Baldwin, New York RSVP'ed to a small child's birthday party invitation with a vile anti-gay screed.

Little Sophia turns 7 in a few weeks, so her two dads decided to throw her a party and invite her friends to celebrate. One of those friends is Tommy, whose mom Beth is apparently a rabid homophobe. She returned the invitation with the following response:

   "Tommy will NOT attend. I do not beleive [sic] in what you do and will not subject my innocent son to your 'lifestyle.' I am sorry Sophia has to grow up this way. If you have an issue or need to speak to me: !!!-###-**."

Sophia's dads were understandably furious, so they sent the letter off to local radio station K-98.3, who posted it on Facebook. The station adds that they contacted Beth, who "gave us permission to post her phone number and said anyone who has a problem with what she wrote can call her, too!"

-bold by me-

She could have left her hate at the door. Simply not responding would have been better then sending a hateful message back to the parents. Why in this day and age does it matter what two consenting adults do with their lives? Isn't it enough that they are in a committed relationship, raising a child, and paying taxes? While they do not need this ladies approval to live their lives in the manner in which they please - it is good that these two men decided not to take the hate lying down.
I heart NY t-shirt gay themed
NY will not tolerate this type of bigotry. She is free to hate but she is not free from criticism.

We live in a time where these views of hatred are antiquated and no longer acceptable to voice. It drives conservatives mad that they are no longer able to spew evil and get away with it. They continually fight to have their hatred cloaked in religious ideology elevated above the rights of others to freely express their love for one another.

Well I'm glad these two dads took a stand. Their daughter is a lucky little girl.

Rainbow flag for LGBT pride

10:08 PM PT: I'll see if there is an update in the morning with the story. Please share it as light is one of the best remedies for this type of hate.

Sat Feb 15, 2014 at 7:52 PM PT: It was a hoax and I am sorry to the community.

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  •  Tip Jar (310+ / 0-)
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    “The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it.” George Orwell

    by Tool on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 07:11:08 PM PST

  •  The Good Book Does Command "Suffer the Little (23+ / 0-)


    This is who these people are.

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 07:19:04 PM PST

  •  Deete her number please. (11+ / 0-)

    Most of the people taking a hard line against us are firmly convinced that they are the last defenders of civilization... The last stronghold of mother, God, home and apple pie and they're full of shit! David Crosby, Journey Thru the Past.

    by Mike S on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 07:21:54 PM PST

  •  This woman is a deplorable bigot. (11+ / 0-)

    But she has not given permission for her phone number to be published and disseminated. It wasn't right in the sourced article and it is not right here.

    We are better than this.

    There is no depth to education without art.- Amiri Baraka. RIP

    by Free Jazz at High Noon on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 07:36:15 PM PST

  •  Their "lifestyle"... (21+ / 0-)

    ...includes two parents.  It's likely that the child wouldn't care or even notice that they are the same sex.  Mom shouldn't impose her sad limitations on her son.

    I'm not always political, but when I am I vote Democratic. Stay Democratic, my friends. -The Most Interesting Man in the World

    by boran2 on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 07:36:32 PM PST

  •  Tool, I'm just sad. (27+ / 0-)

    Someday, Sofia will look into her parent's history, and she will find this story. And it will cause her a jolt.

    What if Sophia had been a special needs child?

    Would it matter to this horror-show woman?

    •  Who knows why people decide to hate like (22+ / 0-)

      this. You pose a great question. We can never know all of the "what ifs" that are engendered in someones life..I don't think it would have mattered horror show woman at all..She can't see past what happens in the bedroom rather than the loving, stable environment that these two parents provide. Study after study have shown it is not the sex of the people that determine the upbringing of kid but the support structure or network that is in place. Two parents acting as a team provides that. In fact there are thousands of combinations that provide that - as long as people work together.  

      This kid will be just fine.  

      “The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it.” George Orwell

      by Tool on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 08:04:43 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I think that Americans with this unhealthy (14+ / 0-)

        …fixation on the wee-wees of complete strangers should be removed from society and institutionalized.

        •  I spend more (8+ / 0-)

          time thinking about my own love life than I do other peoples. Their fixation is really odd to me. I am actually really curious what her other political beliefs are. How much do you want to bet she is a Republican?

          “The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it.” George Orwell

          by Tool on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 08:20:23 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  It's not really that hard (9+ / 0-)

            to understand that people with different belief systems live in different universes. Maybe their brains are wired differently. Maybe they're incapable of seeing beyond the things they were taught as children. Maybe they need to keep their worldview intact or else they will come completely unglued. Maybe they're congenitally inflexible. Maybe they're just not very bright - hardly their fault.

            When societal views take a 180 turn in people's lifetimes, some can adjust to it and some cannot. Some can but not entirely. Some can eventually but it takes them longer. This is just the way it is. Moral codes are deeply rooted. They change over time, not overnight.

            This woman may be acting in accordance with everything she was raised to think is right. Maybe she just needs more time to adapt to a changed world. Feel sorry for her. She's having a very hard time with the way things are turning out, but it's happening and she's going to have to learn to live with it.

            •  You've got some good points, (23+ / 0-)

              But her right to be protected from criticism for being an obnoxious bigot ends, once she puts it in writing and sends it anywhere. If that's stupid, she owns it, whether she can "help it" or not.

              Not to mention that it's not just affecting her, she's bringing up a child to believe this same kind of garbage. Bigotry is wrong, period--and while I don't normally wish to exacerbate anyone's discomfort, we have got to do our best at every chance to make society more bearable for our GLBT friends and family. We have a duty. If it comes down to the feelings of her or them--and it basically has, for all intents and purposes with people like this--it's time for the greater good to prevail. She loses.

               It's time for this woman and the minority view she vomits here to start living with it NOW, at least outside their homes. If they want to be bigots in their own homes, fine. And that's me, giving them way more leeway than they'd afford in return--remember, they want to tell others what to do in their bedrooms, out of sight of everyone. They're not content with keeping their precious children away from Teh Gayz at birthday parties.  

              They're obsessed with others' sexual activity. Uh, NO. The "sick" ones are not the "gay" ones here. It's time to ostracize these nutcases. They want to shove religion down my throat at every turn, not just about GLBT and what They believe. I am free FROM her religion, just as she's free to practice it. But that freedom ends at blatant, ugly societal bigotry. NO MORE.  

              This all started with "what the Republicans did to language".

              by lunachickie on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 10:00:42 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Well said. (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                mamamorgaine, Smoh, Jon Sitzman

                “The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it.” George Orwell

                by Tool on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 10:05:11 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

              •  I wasn't suggesting that she has any right (5+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                lunachickie, DSPS owl, Tool, JosephK74, niemann

                to protection against criticism.

                Don't we tell right-wingers that trying to understand someone's behavior is not the same as condoning it?

                The older I get, the less I believe in free will. The less I believe in free will the less I feel like judging people. But that doesn't mean I don't criticize their behavior.

                •  No, you really weren't (4+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Tool, JosephK74, niemann, chrisculpepper

                  and I'm sorry if it seemed like I was saying otherwise. I would again acknowledge that you made some good points, because you really did. The point I was getting at, though, is that there's a place where "making allowances" for someone's upbringing/belief systems must be balanced with "others' lives and freedoms", when one's upbringing/belief systems compel them to act out in public like this.

                  I can't be forgiving when this kind of ugly is dragged out willingly by its purveyors, no matter how they were brought up--and I've been trying to be patient for a good couple of decades now. Like I said, if she wants to be a hateful bigot at home, fine. But it is time to shun these selfish, ugly people in public, full-stop. They don't want to change, and they don't want to consider anyone else's feelings. And I am damned tired of trying to be "patient" when the kind of hate they espouse often enables bullying, violence and death.

                  At some point it goes from "try to find patience for the allowances of belief systems that you are unfamiliar with and should therefore try to be tolerant of, because YOU don't understand it" into a place where we unintentionally "enable prejudice" by trying to be "tolerant", even when we can clearly see that the other person is not. There is nothing more to understand about people like that. The vast majority, when asked, make no bones about what they base this garbage on--their Bible. Fine. They're entitled to interpret a book wrongly or any other way they want, but they do not have the right to force that on the rest of us. Why presume they're engaging honestly enough to warrant your understanding? They're not. They'll double-down when pushed, claiming it's Teh Gay that's the problem, that they "shove their sexuality down everyone's throat", never ever considering that the reason gay people have to be extra-open about their sexuality in some cases is merely out of a sense of self-preservation in this sick society we live in. Because of people like her. And precisely because she and the minority of America which still "believes" in this type of prejudice would never afford any of us the same courtesy that we've fallen all over ourselves to afford them, it's time to flat-out draw the line and insist, openly and loudly enough to shout them down once and for all--whether they were brought up that way, or they're just stupid, or whatever--that "This behavior is unacceptable, regardless of what you believe. You keep it at home, because you are not welcome anywhere else with it."  

                  This all started with "what the Republicans did to language".

                  by lunachickie on Fri Feb 14, 2014 at 10:54:33 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

            •  I did a thought experiment one day. (8+ / 0-)
              It's not really that hard to understand that people with different belief systems live in different universes.
              I decided to, as much as possible, try to live in the world that fundamentalists live in.  

              As I went about my daily life, I tried to imagine as realistically as possible -- to really hold it in my mind -- that there really was a big wrathful all-powerful invisible being looking down on the world and constantly observing everything that every human being I was seeing did.

              And that this raging, judgmental being really, really cared passionately about everything I did, and every choice I made.

              And ... that there really was a real place of unimaginable torture that I would go to forever -- FOREVER -- if I took even one wrong step.

              It was really interesting, and a far more powerful and revealing experiment than I was expecting.  Even just by pretending, I began to get a tiny sense of just how mind-numbingly terrifying and threatening the world and life in general is when living in such a comic-book universe.  I can't imagine living with the level of anxiety that must necessarily go with genuinely believing that.  

              And then it became much easier to understand on a gut level the desperate psychological need for a magic "escape clause" from living in such a universe -- "I've accepted Jesus Christ!  Phew!  I'm off the hook!" -- as well as the subsequent feelings of:

              1) superiority over all the stupid people who haven't accepted the same escape clause;  

              2) nagging insecurity and terror that a lot of other people don't accept that escape clause as really effective (and the terror that they might be right);  and

              3) out-and-out fury at people who don't accept that escape clause as really effective (because if they're right and I'm wrong, it means I'm still really, really screwed).

              I would recommend that experiment to everyone here.  

              •  Bingo! I wish (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                niemann, maf1029, INMINYMA

                others would try this thought experiment as reading comments here it's clear that kossacks really don't get wha they're dealing with when dealing with fundamentalists.  "Why can't the fundamentalist just tolerate others and let them be?"  Such a question thoroughly fails to understand the universe or the world of the fundamentalist.  For the fundamentalist such tolerance is impossible because it would entail believing their views about God and what God wants are just hypotheses that can be wrong, whereas the whole point of this religious framework is that they have the Truth and Know what God knows.  And if God is really the way you outline you certainly don't disobey such a being.  I can even imagine a fundamentalist saying "I personally don't have any problem with GLBT people, but unfortunately these things are against God's laws and we'd bring about God's wrath if we allowed these things to become legal so sadly I have to do these things."  

                For all the celebrated empathy of liberals, many of us are really not very good at imagining the different worlds of people who are radically other than us.  Everyone in this thread who's asking "why can't they just keep it to themselves and live and let live" reveals a basic failure to understand the theology and understanding of reality these people have.  No amount of lecturing about tolerance will ever persuade these people because they conceive them as acting on behalf of an angry God that forbids these things and they believe they KNOW what that God wants.  Want to change their attitudes?  Continue to show that this belief system is mistaken.  None of this will ever change without dislodging that particular conception of divine.  That doesn't necessarily mean atheism-- though atheism helps --but it minimally entails showing how this conception of God is fundamentally mistaken and couldn't possibly be true both on grounds of natural theology and scripture.

                •  sounds good. (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  niemann, salliezoo

                  Has that method worked for you?  Can you get them to listen to how their conception of God is wrong according to natural theology and scripture? How?  What do you say?

                  •  I actually think (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:

                    we've made a lot of progress on this front since the Enlightenment.  In many respects, their theology was the default worldview for centuries.  Natural theology increasingly persuaded people that god, if such a being exists, couldn't possibly be this way.  Renewed scriptural hermeneutics persuasively called these interpretations of the Bible into question.  As a consequence, their theology has increasingly become a minority position, albeit a politically powerful minority position.

                    At any rate, as an atheist that also teaches college philosophy in a highly fundamentalist/evangelical region of the country where homeschooling is rife, nearly two decades of teaching has convinced me that theology is far more subversive than attempts to straight on argue that God does not exist.  Attempts to disprove the existence of the divine immediately leads them to dig in their heels.  By contrast, theology allows them to retain their belief in god and scripture while getting them to think about whether or not some of the desires and actions they attribute to him could possibly accord with what a divine being would be (morally perfect, infinite, omniscient, omnipotent, etc).  Among my students I find that thinking through these things can be both life changing and something of a revelation.

                    As an atheist it might come as a surprise that I don't worry about whether or not people retain their belief in the divine.  For me, however, the only relevant thing is the political effects of belief.  So long as people regard others with dignity and equality and recognize science as that methodology that gives us knowledge about the natural world, I'm rather indifferent to whether someone finds their ethics in Moses (Im ethnically Jewish) or Jesus or Buddha or Muhommed, etc.  Indeed, while I don't think there was anything supernatural about any these persons, nor that any of them experienced anything supernatural, but I do think all of them were great ethical philosophers.

                    •  I especially like this in your comment. (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      By contrast, theology allows them to retain their belief in god and scripture while getting them to think about whether or not some of the desires and actions they attribute to him could possibly accord with what a divine being would be (morally perfect, infinite, omniscient, omnipotent, etc).
                      In the counseling I've done I've sometimes had to walk carefully in addressing people's religious beliefs that, privately, I found out-and-out stupid, irrational, and self-sabotaging.  

                      Instead of saying -- as I would inwardly want to -- "That's stupid!" I've had to sort of slip in -- in kind of a sideways, tentative way -- other theological views.

                      I remember one metaphor especially, for people who have had the "wrathful God sending people to Hell to burn for eternity" image ingrained in them.  

                      I've asked what they would think of a person who punishes their puppy for piddling on the carpet by sticking it in the oven, or holding it on a hot burner.

                      Pretty much everyone agrees that would be a really, really sick person, and they feel really badly for the puppy.

                      "And yet when we weak humans make a mistake, God supposedly sends us to burn and suffer like that puppy for all eternity?  I have a hard time believing that God is less understanding and compassionate than we weak humans are sitting here in this room.  That's not God.  In a human we would call that a sociopath."

                      And then let them go off and think about it on their own.

              •  Too many of us had to live it. (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:

                I grew up in a seriously fundamentalist family.  (My father was a devotee of Herbert W. Armstrong.)  I remember being terrified of hell based on the pictures depicting it in Armstrong's magazine.  One of the fundamentals of our faith was that thinking about something was as sinful as doing it.  Now some people (I'm thinking about our preacher's sons) figured that if they were going to hell for thinking about something anyway, they might as well have the fun of actually doing it.  Not me...I thought and felt guilty.  So now I call myself a recovering pentecostal.

                •  Wow. You didn't have to imagine it. (0+ / 0-)

                  You've lived actually believing it.  I can't imagine that.  At least you're not stuck in that universe anymore.

                  In the counseling I used to do, I would always talk about the tricky trap of beliefs about reality, and the importance of questioning one's beliefs.

                  I would point out how, because they are beliefs about external reality, people mistake those beliefs for external reality ... and thus feel that, since it is all "out there," there is nothing one can do about it.

                  In a way it's like asking a computer to question its own basic programming.  It can't do it because that basic programming is in itself determining its ability to question -- or not question -- that very basic programming.

        •  I think they should simply be ridiculed and (5+ / 0-)

          given opportunity to find a better path beyond hate for irrational reasons.

          We don't all have to share similar values, but lack of respect for people who do nothing to you in a material fashion is a hallmark of right-wing fear.

          She's deadly afraid and I bet she has no idea that's the case.

          "So, please stay where you are. Don't move and don't panic. Don't take off your shoes! Jobs is on the way."

          by wader on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 08:36:49 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  She didn't leave much room ... (21+ / 0-)

          ... with her kindergarten-sized scribbling. But I would have been tempted to add my response and re-send the invitation.

          Dear Ms. XXX: Thank you for disclosing your unhealthy obsession with the private sexual activities of your consenting adult neighbors. We were unaware of your unfortunate condition when we issued the invitation. Please consider it rescinded, and rest assured that there will never be another.


          Sophia's Two Dads.

          Just because you're not a drummer doesn't mean that you don't have to keep time. -- T. Monk

          by susanala on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 09:45:36 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  From viewing the haters in my life, seems (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        SME in Seattle

        simple - they hate themselves, are miserable, and will try to take anyone around them with positive energy into their darkness.  It's a sad thing to watch, and must be a sad place to be.

        The GOP will destroy anything they can't own.

        by AnnieR on Fri Feb 14, 2014 at 08:00:49 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  I think it's important (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        DSPS owl

        for us to understand that these people really do believe what they say about God.  Many of us on the left have this "live and let live" idea about religion.  "Why can't they recognize that these are their personal beliefs and be tolerant of the opinions and beliefs of others?"  This fundamentally-- pardon the pun --fails to understand this sort of religious worldview.  They really do think God sees us as abominations, that he has plainly stated his laws concerning these matters in Scripture, and that if society does not obey these laws God will bring down his wrath in the form of natural disasters and whatnot.  

        This primitive understanding of God and his relationship to the world where there's magic and supernatural interventions is really what they think.  Now if you had this genuinely held beliefs what would you do?  Would you go for tolerance and respecting the beliefs of others in the name of some sort of societal peace, risking the wrath of God?  Or would you go with the guy that has the biggest stick on the street (God) and obey his commandments?  These things are built into the core of their theology and metaphysics.  They don't see them as private or personal matters, but as very public matters.  This is why this sort of fundamentalism-- whether Christian or not --is fundamentally at odds with any form of democracy and why it necessarily pursues theocracy.  Democracy requires, in part, tolerating the belief systems of others.  In this sort of theology that's just not possible because doing so, they believe, invites the anger of God.  They don't see themselves as being hateful when addressing GLBT people such as ourselves in this way.  They see themselves as doing God's righteous work.  

        We on the left talk a good game about being tolerant, but we really aren't.  We can only tolerate people that are tolerant and simply can't include exclusionary worldviews like this.  I think our intolerance of these sorts of things is a good thing.  I also think there are some things where the "live and let live" ethic of liberalism just doesn't work:  religious bigotry, racism, sexism, etc.  You have to decide in these cases.

        •  God has told them to go out and spread (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          Christianity.  They (many of them) believe it is their duty to work toward every person in the world hearing "god's word" and preferably accepting it.  There are organizations all over the world supporting Christian missionaries and have been for at least 1000 years.

          And how many missionaries do the buddhists send out?  The Dalai Lama has said he'd prefer that everyone had a religion, not necessarily HIS religion.  I don't really agree but I certainly can respect that attitude.

          Christians would be welcome to their religion if they'd just leave the rest of us be.  The USA's legal system is making some progress in accepting/protecting gays.  But it's regressing wrt women.

          Poor Tommy.

          Happy Birthday Sophia!

          The opposite of pro is con. So what's the opposite of progress?

          by DSPS owl on Fri Feb 14, 2014 at 11:52:39 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I agree, but my point (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            DSPS owl

            is that from their point of view they can't just leave everyone else alone.  They believe that theirs is the one true religion, that they know (not just believe) this, and that if they don't act to insure that the rest of the world accords with the teachings of that religion they will anger God.  It's built into the very fabric of their theology that these can't be merely personal or private things.

          •  Not sure if you meant it -- (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            DSPS owl, chrisculpepper

            I don't know if you believe it, but what you wrote sounds like you think Fundamentalists and Christians are synonymous, and I just wanted to say they aren't: there is still such a thing as "The Christian Left" and they even have a Facebook page by that name.  Jesus was all about taking care of the poor and not judging them --  and there are plenty of Christians who still believe that.  

  •  I'll remove the number. (18+ / 0-)


    “The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it.” George Orwell

    by Tool on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 07:49:47 PM PST

  •  Horrid behavior by the mother. n/t (12+ / 0-)

    The word "parent" is supposed to be a VERB, people...

    by wesmorgan1 on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 08:14:56 PM PST

  •  Baldwin is not NYC (23+ / 0-)

    Baldwin is located out on Long Island and is not part of NYC.  I'm sure there are homophobic people living in NYC but I hope they're not many.  

    I actually find it sad that anyone would write this on a child's invitation and, I'm sure, she's told Tommy that he can't go to Sophie's party because she has 2 daddies.  At 7 years old Tommy is very impressionable and just beginning to understand the world outside of his home.  This mother should be in therapy for the hate she has and that she'll pass on to her son.

    Never be afraid to voice your opinion and fight for it . Corporations aren't people, they're Republicans (Rev Al Sharpton 10/7/2011) Voting is a louder voice than a bullhorn but sometimes you need that bullhorn to retain your vote.

    by Rosalie907 on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 08:24:32 PM PST

    •  Baldwin is like 15 min from queens by car. (5+ / 0-)

      It is pretty close to NYC.

      “The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it.” George Orwell

      by Tool on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 08:33:19 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  But I included Long Island in the tag.. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        wader, thanatokephaloides

        “The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it.” George Orwell

        by Tool on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 08:36:57 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I've known some rather conservative enclaves (14+ / 0-)

          on Long Island - not sure if that's the case with Baldwin at all, but this woman fits the pattern of other "lost" and scared NYers when it comes to LGBT . . . and Muslims, liberals, etc.  They need demons to blame for their irrational fears.

          "So, please stay where you are. Don't move and don't panic. Don't take off your shoes! Jobs is on the way."

          by wader on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 08:39:30 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  My (8+ / 0-)

            Aunt lives out in Baldwin and it has a diverse mix in population. She attends a very liberal temple out there. From what I have seen out there it is a mixed neighborhood and not a hot bed of long island conservatism. Which tends to be liberal on social issues but very conservative on fiscal. Most of them would not be considered republicans anymore by today' crazy republican standard.

            I'm glad these dads decided to fight back and not simply accept the hate anymore. I'm glad they turned to social media because when a spotlight is shown on hatred is slinks back into the shadows.

            “The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it.” George Orwell

            by Tool on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 08:46:07 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •   (0+ / 0-)

              Baldwin is on the South Shore of Long Island, in Nassau County, either in or adjacent to Peter King's district.   He is the only Republican Congressman from this area.  While this area has a reputation for being relatively socially moderate and is not a cauldron of seething fundamentalism, there are many close-minded, intolerant folks who live in this area.  Many have minimal, if any, ties to NYC, and continue to view NYC as a cultur.   I should know - I grew up 5 towns over in Massapequa, and at age 18, I could not wait to leave.   South Shore of Long Island, especially in Nassau County

      •  and a world away (0+ / 0-)

        proximity means nothing. New York is BIG as well as diverse.

    •  Baldwin is just outside Queens by a town or two (0+ / 0-)

      People who work in Manhattan live there because it's close. I lived there for over 20 years myself. It was one of the places  that "white flight" became refuse to in the 60's and 70's as black and Hispanic neighborhoods pushed into transitionally white areas in Brooklyn and Queens (which was the previous home of people who worked day jobs in Manhattan) and white people moved to Long Island to stay white but still live as close to Manhattan as possible on the NY side of the Hudson. Just two blocks from where i lived was the shop Joey Buttafucco worked at which was besieged by media during the Amy what's-her-face's prosecution.

      "Education Is Not the Filling of a Pail, But the Lighting of a Fire" W.B. Yeats

      by RareBird0 on Sat Feb 15, 2014 at 11:09:59 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  It doesn't sound to me (8+ / 0-)

    Like homophobia is socially acceptable in NY. From the reaction it sounds like people are sending this woman a strong message that it is in fact socially unacceptable.

    •  No but she really wasn't (16+ / 0-)

      afraid of the backlash. She's adopted a kinda "bring it on" mentality with her provocation. She is unafraid of espousing bigoted views and perhaps has the hope that this will turn her into a martyr on the right. If she is shown that this is socially unacceptable then good. That is the point. Bigots no longer get to treat people this way and get away with it. I think it is one of the great things about the modern era that we can shine a spot light on it.

       Or she will come forward in a few days in a tearful interview where she has learned the errors of her ways.

      Somehow I don't see that happening though.

      “The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it.” George Orwell

      by Tool on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 08:51:00 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Once the backlash started she turned off her phone (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        mmacdDE, Tool, Matt Z

        So no, she is afraid of the backlash. She just can't stop herself shooting her mouth off. Bad combination.

        "What could BPossibly go wrong??" -RLMiller "God is just pretend." - eru

        by nosleep4u on Fri Feb 14, 2014 at 06:38:53 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  She wasn't afraid (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Tool, Matt Z

        because she wouldn't understand it. She has the one, true answer after all given to her in her interpretation of the Bible and her God, and the rest of us don't. We're the lost souls in her mind.
        We have an ex-neighbor who my wife is still occasionally in contact with via Facebook, etc. And we get similar crap now and then, People are gay because they're confused. The Bible says this and the Bible says that. My wife ignores what she can but will respond when it gets to be too much.
        It is exactly what is going on in Kansas, using 'religious belief' as a shield for your own personal prejudices and demanding that everyone else abide by them, because it is the one true religious belief. How neat and tidy.

        Blue is blue and must be that. But yellow is none the worse for it - Edith Sidebottom

        by kenwards on Fri Feb 14, 2014 at 07:36:09 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  I am just sick of these bigots, really really sick (10+ / 0-)

    Recommended. Hope you are doing good buddy. Touch base when you can.

    Regulate banks, not vaginas

    by MinistryOfTruth on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 08:53:56 PM PST

  •  Taking in Dutch kids' pop song "Two Fathers" again (3+ / 0-)

    In the Netherlands, even less controversial now than it was when first broadcast in 2005.

    The Dutch kids' chorus Kinderen voor Kinderen wishes all the world's children freedom from hunger, ignorance, and war. ♥ ♥ ♥ Forget Neo — The One is Minori Urakawa

    by lotlizard on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 09:14:58 PM PST

  •  Happy Birthday Sophia! (12+ / 0-)

    So happy you have parents who love you and want to share your birthday with your friends. Tommy may want to come to the party too, but it's not up to him. Maybe in a few years. Maybe you and Tommy may go to the prom some day. Life is full of bumps, you'll be ok because you have a solid family full of love, hope and light.

    Happy 7th birthday darling little girl.

  •  hate (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    lexalou, jayden

    Hate is not a family'am, unless of course, you are a FunDummie Christian

  •  Freedom of Religion (4+ / 0-)

    equals Freedom From Being Called Out on Bigotry based on YOUR Religion and not MINE? Nope. Not in any reality known to man except the hypocrites spawned by Puritan America and encouraged by Hate Media in 20fucking14.

    Right on!

    She is free to hate but she is not free from criticism.
    She's not. And she even gave her permission! I hope she has to change her phone number. Either she's not real bright or she's an attention ho. Guess we get to find out soon enough.

    This all started with "what the Republicans did to language".

    by lunachickie on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 09:45:29 PM PST

  •  Haters always gonna hate (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Shake it off and move on. Mean people suck. They don't deserve more energy.

    If you can find money to kill people, you can find money to help people. --Tony Benn

    by rhetoricus on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 09:49:51 PM PST

    •  No. (14+ / 0-)

      People like this passed an Amendment against people like me in my state (MI) a while back. You may have heard of it.

      They need to be fought, shamed, shunned, taunted, pecked, belittled, harassed, insulted, demeaned, defeated at every turn, kicked when they're down, and metaphorically beaten into total and unbroken silence.

      •  Yes. (0+ / 0-)

        I'm also queer, and lived in MI (in the most homophobic part of the state, next door to some very scary, gun-toting, overtly menacing right-wing freaks we were terrified of) when MI passed that fucking law. But a single bigot writing a mean but nonviolent private letter in response to a private invitation is not the same as lawmakers inscribing discrimination into the law.

        If all of the indignant energy put into responding to this one nutjob was put into organizing to change the law, things might actually change. Priorities.

        If you can find money to kill people, you can find money to help people. --Tony Benn

        by rhetoricus on Fri Feb 14, 2014 at 09:21:23 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  I think this is fake (0+ / 0-)

    ...possibly a ploy to get people to call the number and leave nasty messages that will later be released to show how "intolerant" the left is.

    This just smells like a setup to me.

    •  If that's true (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Tool, jan4insight, Cassandra Waites, Smoh

      and we have no indication that it is, though I thought about it for a few minutes, it depends on who spins it.

      And then it becomes just another "divide'em-up", as I've taken to calling them, contrived by The Media. Not the first and not the last and big damn deal, The Left has been "intolerant" since Reagan.

      Plus it's not like it's not believable in general. Too late to worry about it now, though. It's out there.  

      This all started with "what the Republicans did to language".

      by lunachickie on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 10:07:48 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Obviously fake (0+ / 0-)

      Like the family who refused to tip their waitress because she was a lesbian.  The left is so desperate to find some evidence of discrimination that they must discriminate to do it.  How many times are you going to fall for this.

      •  It's not surprising (0+ / 0-)

        most people avoid confrontation and if they do discriminate, will deny it. Like my neighbor who came around with an anti-gay marriage petition in 2012. When confronted with criticism for her anti-gay position, she denied being anti-gay. It's like -- Really?! You're carrying around a petition to try to nullify the law the legislature just passed granting gays and lesbians the right to marry. It was explicitly anti-gay, but there she stood denying it.

        I was thrilled when they lost in November.

      •  Seems to Be (0+ / 0-)

        I went to the radio station's website, and there was a message from the two employee of K98.3 apologizing for this whole mess.  They say they wanted to open a dialog about this important issue, but one doesn't open a civilized dialog with such an inflammatory story and FB post.  An open dialog would begin with something like, "Do you agree with gay people having famlies?" or some such. I find this strange.
        It must be in another post, but I object to this being a "leftie" thing. Any caring person would react to this.
        One thing that puzzles me is the "K."  Don't radio stations east of the Rockies use "W?"  "K" is for west of said mountains, I thought.
        Sorry this isn't in exactly the right place. This is my first post.

  •  Poor Tommy. (10+ / 0-)

    Sophie is going to grow up in a house full of love, acceptance, and respect. Tommy will have to learn that hate and bigotry are the legacy of his bitter small-minded mother. Hopefully he'll find role models in his life to counter the damage inflicted on him by good old mom.

  •  Here's a message to Tommy (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    poco, denig, Sylv
    This Be The Verse

    They fuck you up
    Your mom and dad
    They may not mean to
    But they do
    They fill you with the thoughts they had
    And add some extra just for you

  •  What an effing witch. (4+ / 0-)

    Thanks, tool, my ally buddy.

    Pope Francis: the Thumb of Christ in the eyes of the Pharisees.

    by commonmass on Fri Feb 14, 2014 at 12:00:53 AM PST

  •  From Long Island? What A Surprise. (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mrblifil, Smoh, Tool, vcmvo2

    White flight created the horror that are certain pockets of troglodytes on Long Island. Beth is a perfect example.

    Remember, the road to victory is paved with big words and professorial arrogance. Passion need not apply.

    by The Lone Apple on Fri Feb 14, 2014 at 02:55:58 AM PST

  •  Time for a dKos two-minute hate (0+ / 0-)

    You really think some bigoted Long Island mom deserves to be outed and publicly punished?

    What she did was awful. What this diary does is almost worse.  

    Yeah there are bigoted people.

  •  She's an idiot (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Tool, congenitalefty, Sylv, Ahianne, vcmvo2

    and a pugnacious one to boot. Long Island is full of them. Gay parents take a lot of shit. Fortunately she's the dinosaur in this scenario, and is only ensuring her continued irrelevance and isolation from society at large. There's something really pathetic about turning a child's birthday card into a challenge to fight. I would imagine bigotry is the least of her "issues."

  •  A simple "No, thank you" would have sufficed. (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    EastcoastChick, Sychotic1, Smoh, Tool


    "Legalizing pot won't make more pot-smokers. It will just make fewer criminals. - Me

    by AlyoshaKaramazov on Fri Feb 14, 2014 at 04:59:12 AM PST

  •  There were houses I didn't want my son (10+ / 0-)

    going to, like the one down the street where the kids were always running wild and the one where the older brother seems to beat up all the kids in the neighborhood and the one where the Mom is a psycho.

    I didn't ever feel the need to write, "Tommy can't come to Melissa's party because you are a crazed psycho bitch, call me if you want to discuss it further."

    A simple, "Sorry, but we are busy that day." will usually suffice.

    "I watch Fox News for my comedy, and Comedy Central for my news." - Facebook Group

    by Sychotic1 on Fri Feb 14, 2014 at 05:25:37 AM PST

    •  I'd draw the line at drugs and guns (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Tool, VPofKarma

      and I don't think I'd have a problem writing, "Sorry, but ___'s not allowed to go to houses where there are guns."

      •  I just kept him away and yes (0+ / 0-)

        three doors down there was an accidental shooting at a birthday party where one kid shot another kid with the homeowner's gun.  My son was not there (btw, that is the first house I cited in my little list of parties my son was not allowed to attend.)

        "I watch Fox News for my comedy, and Comedy Central for my news." - Facebook Group

        by Sychotic1 on Fri Feb 14, 2014 at 07:49:36 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Beleive? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Tool, MaikeH

    What does she even mean that she doesn't "believe" in their lifestyle? It's true, it's happening, it's a fact that Sophia has two homosexual fathers.  There's no believing or disbelieving in that. It is in fact their "lifestyle" to live the way they wish.

    These people just really confuse me. They can't come up with any real argument against homosexuality so they just throw words around trying to find something, anything that will be a valid criticism because they can't just say "because I don't like it!  Meh!"

    [Terrorists] are a dime a dozen, they are all over the world and for every one we lock up there will be three to take his place. --Digby

    by rabel on Fri Feb 14, 2014 at 05:48:48 AM PST

    •  It indicates to me... (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Tool, Sylv, rabel

      ...that her homophobic bigotry is religiously based. She sees gay people as a challenge to her god. She most likely doesn't recognize homosexuality as inherent and instead thinks it's a choice that gay people make as an act of rebellion against her god.

    •  "Believe" instead of "approve" (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      VPofKarma, rabel

      I have always had an issue with people (mis)using the word "believe" when they say, for instance, "I don't believe in abortion" and mean "I don't approve of it."

      Not believing means denying that something exists, as in "I don't believe in the tooth fairy any more."

      261.A wealthy man can afford anything except a conscience. -Ferengi Rules of Acquisition

      by MaikeH on Fri Feb 14, 2014 at 09:17:59 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  A friend was at his sister's funeral service in NY (11+ / 0-)

    and almost walked out because of an anti-gay rant the minister went off on. There was absolutely no connection to his sister's life or passions or concerns in his rant. He just used the service as a chance to spout his prejudice.
    This minister was filling in for her minister and had not let the family in on his plans for the sermon. He did not get around to including any of the personal things they had told him about her life

    What that minister did and what that lady did were horrible and insensitive things
    we can only be glad we do not have to be them

    •  I think I would have lost my shit (5+ / 0-)

      if something like that happened to me. Sometimes I don't get people. Someone is being crazy rude (can't really imagine much that is more disrespectful than what that minister did) but everyone else feels compelled to be polite about it. Some weird societal conditioning that I don't have for some reason.

    •  Also, bad manners me, I should (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Tool, Sylv, SME in Seattle, VPofKarma, vcmvo2

      have said that I feel really awful that happened to your friend. That was my first thought, but I went off on a tangent really. No one should have to deal with a minister like that during one of the worst times in their lives.  

    •  When I was 9 years old I moved to NYC. (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Ahianne, rubyr, VPofKarma, Scioto

      My family could not afford an apartment for ourselves so we alternated by living during the week between my two grand mothers apartments. My grandma Jo had an apartment in the west village that would be worth a million or two now but in the early 90s was much cheaper. My first Christmas Eve in NYC my parents took me to this beautiful church right on west 4th for a midnight service. The insides were beautiful and the place is still there today. Well the service started out lovely enough but soon the minister took an odd turn and started calling out homosexuals and saying that AIDS was their punishment from god. He kept going and about 10 min into this hateful sermon people started to leave. My family stayed and I listened but could not comprehend why this was the message being delivered on Christmas Eve. More people filed out about 30 minutes into the topic and at that point my mom and dad nudged my  sister & I and told us it was time to leave. We never went back and my parents told me what that man said was wrong.

      “The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it.” George Orwell

      by Tool on Fri Feb 14, 2014 at 07:25:52 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Hmm (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    I do not think shaming that parent is all that productive.  It just seems like middle of the road rudeness.  Parents and their kids do much worse than that every day and most of the time they do not have the courtesy to write it out.  Usually they just say no and you have to wonder whether it has to do with your interracial marriage, social class issues, whose kid threw a booger at whom or a soccer game they can't miss.  Nobody is threatening anyone here or even violating a discrimination statute like the wedding cake bakers.  

    Frankly I would be grateful to have it out in the open and polite.  Much better than the whispering behind your back bullshit that minority, gay and otherwise 'different' parents and kids deal with most of the time.  

    Tom Frank was a pseudo that I coined before I found out about that guy who writes books.

    by Tom Frank on Fri Feb 14, 2014 at 06:04:20 AM PST

  •  love trumps hatred. (0+ / 0-)


  •  Dear Tommy's Mom (12+ / 0-)

    When you are offered an invitation, it is an example of someone being nice to you.  The correct way to decline is just with a simple, "Thank you for the invitation.  He is not able to attend," or some other sentence showing graciousness for the kindness shown to you.  

    It is the same as if you are offered food at someone's house that you dislike.  You just say, "No thank you," instead of, "Yuck, gross, I hate that food."


    All the people raised with manners.

  •  Should leave the number (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Radio station asked her whether keep her number or not. And her answer was to let her voice heard. So why not let it?

    I solute Tool’s gut to leave the number in the first place.
    I probably could haven’t done it for all the reason people commented it on.
    Because nobody wants to get their hands dirty. After all, we are not part of this.
    She didn’t hurt us nor our love one. She only hurt this family.

    We don’t want some crazy people start attacking us. We don’t want to be noticed by them.

    But Tool did the right thing. Let this family’s voice heard. That is the most important thing of all. Because more people know about, and more people talk to her about what is wrong with her. Probably someday she may give in, long shot, but worth a try.

    •  Its not a question of "getting our hands dirty" (0+ / 0-)

      Or refusing to engage because she "didn't hurt us."  That's just a ridiculous way to look at it.  People who are angry bigots don't change their mind because they are revictimized, as they see it, by the people they've attacked. All Tool did, and all the media did in publishing her number, was give her and people like her a chance to feel that they are what Fred Clark at Slactivist calls a "persecuted hegemon."  That is: they are in the right, they should be acknowledged to be in the right, but powerful forces are arrayed against them. She already thinks that--her lashing out at this couple comes from a place of fear and anxiety that her taken for granted prejudices are not shared by enough people.  By showing her that she is vulnerable and isolated and attacking her you only confirm what she thinks in the first place and harden her attitude. Not that I think her attitude matters--it is what it is--but don't kid yourself that publishing her number or calling to harrass her personally is some kind of noble or effective crusade to change her mind. You are just proving her point, really.

      •  The only thing a bully understands (2+ / 0-)

        is a punch in the mouth... literally or figuratively.  

        I was bullied for years.  I tried talking, I tried reasoning, I tried working through the school administration, until I figured three things out:  1.) Talking doesn't work with bullies, because they don't listen.  2.)  Reasoning doesn't work, because their lashing out isn't reasonable.  3.)  The school admin thinks bullying is fine, because they were bullies themselves and grew up to get a job where they could continue doing so.  

        This woman is a bully.  No amount of coddling and reasoning is going to reach her.  After what she did, do you really think she has any capacity to play nice, or be nice, or change in any way?  I don't.  And if treating her like the garbage she is "proves her point", then it's obvious she doesn't know what the point was in the first place.    

        Bullies are bullies.  They don't change, especially in adulthood.  The best we can do is marginalize and push them aside.  The thing I learned, to the extreme pain of my gentle soul, was that the one and only thing you can do with a bully is get them to shut up.  You shut them up by punching them as hard as you can, or embarrassing them, or humiliating them, until they realize that you are not to be f*cked with, and hopefully this will make them think twice about trying it again.  If they do, you break them.  Does it reinforce their views of themselves as weaklings who need to lash out?  You bet.  But look me in the eye and tell me, honestly, if you think that playing nice has EVER gained anyone anything when dealing with rednecks, evangelicals, and socially-conservative morons.  Does playing nice work with Boehner, Cruz, Rick Scott, etc?  Nope.  Never has, never will.  They have to be humiliated, voted out of office, and kept away from power, forever.  

        The same goes for people like this awful woman.  She doesn't understand fair, or nice, or reasonable... so I'm not about to give it to her.  Don't be afraid, fellow liberals.  Let these people have it, as hard as you can.    

        The schoolyard bully sucker-punches your friend and, as he lays there crying, stands up on the jungle gym and dares anyone to try and knock him off his perch.  Who's going to fault me for trying to take him up on his stupid offer?

        Odds and ends about life in Japan:

        by Hatrax on Fri Feb 14, 2014 at 06:12:56 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  I think people are (0+ / 0-)

        still adjusting the way how the information spread.
        and encouraging the idea “Pen is mightier than sword” is a good thing.

        In an old day,
        People may post her address in the public place, and prosecute her.
        Stone her or knocking on the door to threaten her.
        I’m definitely against that.

        I don’t think many people should call her up middle of night or leave the obnoxious messages. Then I get your point, that’s totally counterproductive and simply give her more ammunition to hate “these kind of people”.

        But the society should know, and let her know what many of us think of her

        She is simply ignorant, and never thought otherwise. She never had a chance to associate outside of her group. It is our duty to wake her up.
        She may learn the easy way or hard way. It’s up to her.

        Once again, I don’t think I’m qualified to do so. I’ll just set back and hope somebody else may succeed. I agree saying  I just “don’t want my hands get dirty” may not the right expression. What I really wanted to say, is, I wish I had a wisdom and means to change her mind, and I don’t.

        Tool diary help to get everybody’s attention. That’s the start. And I believe most of the members of Daily Kos, has a good sense of justice. Some of us may succeed to reach her, and help her understand.  It’s not the revenge. Sooner she would learn is definitely good for her.

        •  Of course now it turns out the whole thing:hoax (0+ / 0-)

          Of course now it turns out the whole thing was a hoax. When will people learn that you can never be embarrassed by taking the high road and waiting a bit before rushing to judgement?

          •  that's exactly my point (0+ / 0-)

            I did tell you, I wouldn't do that neither.

            because  "you can never be embarrassed by taking the high road"

            once again, I wouldn't risk myself to be embarrassed.

            Sound did kind of fishy, since,
            It's hard to imagine, anybody could be that stupid,
            to egg whole world to challenge her.

            But I guess, Tool took his chance
            I still think he was right.
            If he did believe that was the true story, he felt he needed to do something.

            Do you laugh him for that?

    •  Number is available at the link n/t (0+ / 0-)

      Evolution IS Intelligent Design!

      by msirt on Fri Feb 14, 2014 at 08:52:40 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Folks need to be patient with people on this (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Issue.  We have seen millions of Americans evolve on accepting gays as a part of our society in a relatively short period of time.  Change doesn't happen overnight. I don't think publishing this card was really the way to go.  It would have been better to engage her in dialogue with a written or personal response or maybe just let it go and wait for another oppoortunity to engage her.

    Global Shakedown - Alternative rock with something to say. Check out their latest release, "A Time to Recognize": Available on iTunes, Amazon, Google Play, Spotify and other major online music sites. Visit

    by khyber900 on Fri Feb 14, 2014 at 06:54:24 AM PST

    •  Totally disagree. (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      YellowFroggyAttack, Tool, Ahianne

      She has made herself clear by ranting in such an insulting way.

      She will not engage in any real discussion with gay men, ever.  She is incapable of hearing.  She is the parent who will reject Tommy if he is gay, without looking back.

      She is not the person who will sit down and have a conversation.  

      Perhaps they should not have published the response; on the other hand, there is no indication she will ever be open to hearing from Sophia's two dads.

      •  Lots of people think this is acceptable... (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        cartwrightdale, aimai, Ahianne, fl1972 a way of asserting their beliefs. It's not.

        BUT... neither is it acceptable to call her up and yell at her. Being hateful back to her just confirms her in her views, among other things that she's being persecuted for her beliefs.

        Remember the man who organized the NOM "summer of marriage" protest? Gay couples engaged him in conversation all along the route... and the following spring he came out in favor of gay marriage.

        So let's call out bad behavior, but let's not model the behavior we object to.

    •  Is it so much that people (0+ / 0-)

      are evolving on their views or bigots simply dying off from old age? Most likely a combo. 10 years ago when the marriage equality movement started getting legs I spoke up in my education class when the topic came up & I said the only way we would make progress on this issue is when the older generations passed on. While morbid it has proved true.

      “The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it.” George Orwell

      by Tool on Fri Feb 14, 2014 at 07:45:49 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  I kind of agree with this (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      VPofKarma, chrisculpepper

      I had a good talk with my dad about this a few years ago, asking why he was still anti-gay (especially since he had been a liberal long-haired hippie who marched on Washington for civil rights, and when I was growing up he had us march in our local MLK parade every year, often the only white family in it.)  He said there are some things that you can't unlearn.  Like his own parent's generation's feelings opposing interracial marriage -- some things are so deeply ingrained inside you, you might be able to pretend certain views have evolved, but they can never really be un-felt.  He was taught, from age 1-50, that homosexuality was a sick mental disorder, absolutely equal to pedophilia and no less harmful to society.  Remember, this generation was taught this at home, at church, and even in public schools.  They were shown videos like this: and worse.  Someone in their 20s or 30s today has no concept at all of how their parents' generation was taught to feel about homosexuality, just as our parent's generation had no concept of how their parents felt about interracial relationships.  Race mixing was simply immoral.  It was just a fact.  Everyone knew it.  Period.

      Anyway, my dad said "suppose someday that when you have kids, their generation completely supports sexual relationships between adults and children, and not only wants to make it legal, but also smears anyone opposed to it as a bigot."  I countered, of course, that that was sick and wrong and immoral, and that would never happen.  But his point was that for his generation, the idea of "gay marriage", for example, was equally impossible and ludicrous and immoral.  If you told someone of his generation, back when they were growing up, that someday a gay couple could be legally married and even adopt children, well, that would be completely unfathomable -- just as unfathomable as imagining my child's generation supporting legal, morally approved pedophilia.  Because his generation was taught every single day, in every context and in every environment, that homosexuality was a sick disease, and those people were sexual predators and child rapists, period, full stop, no question, no debate.

      I think it's remarkable how fast gay acceptance has arrived in this country.  Certainly much, much faster than racial acceptance.  But let's also remember why the tide turned on civil rights -- white people who grew up in the 50s and 60s were increasingly likely to know black people, have black friends, and experience black culture.  To them, it was rather obvious that blacks deserved equality with whites.  To their parents, who were dramatically less likely to interract with or be friends with a person of color, it was still an alien concept.  This happened with homosexuality in the 90s and 00s, as more people starting being comfortable "coming out", increasingly the likelihood that straight people would, in fact, know gay people, have gay friends, and so on.  People in their 60s and 70s today are extremely unlikely to have a single (openly) gay friend, do not talk to (openly) gay people, and can't understand it at all.  But just like the anti-black generation died out, the anti-gay generation will die out, and it's almost inconceivable today to imagine a normal, social individual wouldn't have at least a couple of gay friends.  But progress takes time.  To expect a whole group of people, who believed their whole lives that gays were sick kiddie rapists, who don't even have a single (openly) gay friend to talk to to convince them otherwise, to all of a sudden change one of their fundamental beliefs... well, that's just unrealistic, and frankly kind of unfair.

      I will never believe that my dad, who dedicated so much time and energy to civil rights and equality for all, is a "bigot" because he opposes gay marriage.  Just as, frankly, I will never believe that George Washington and Thomas Jefferson's intellectual contributions to the formation of government and human justice are worthless because they owned slaves.  There are probably causes and beliefs all of us carry today that, a few generations into the future, will similarly be reviled.  Would that make all our contributions invalid?  Would that make us all retroactively immoral?  Suppose, for example, that in the future, vegetarianism is widely considered the only moral, perhaps even legal, option for food consumption.  Would those of us "animal killers" be dismissed as "species bigots" and "savages"?  It's entirely possible.  But would that be fair?

      "The majority of a single vote is as sacred as if unanimous." - Thomas Jefferson

      by cartwrightdale on Fri Feb 14, 2014 at 08:21:10 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  The accusation that gay = pedophile is (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        vcmvo2, chrisculpepper

        The accusation that gay= pedophile is actually pretty new, historically speaking.  Your father is actually pretty much making shit up.  I"m sorry to say that but its true. I'm 53 years old and though gayness and homosexuality were largely forbidden topics when I was growing up (certainly not taught about, even taught against in any way in public school) most people didn't learn anything about gayness at all.  

        Lesbianism has never been associated with pedophilia, for one thing, but there were famously lesbian women and dykes out there--what do you think a "Boston Marriage" was?  As for gay men, prior to the AIDS epidemic the entire view of gay men as sick/dangerous/cancerous was completely foreign. Maybe people thought of them as weird or weak or feminine but they didn't think of them as some kind of diseased thing.

        The difference between gay rights and some imaginary future pedophile rights program is that in the future children will still not be considered able to give consent to sexual acts just like they can't give consent to entering into legal contracts.  Sexual acts between consenting adults requires 1) consent and 2) adulthood.  Modern gay rights have nothing to do with changing the laws surrounding consent or the sexual abuse of children.

        •  Hmm that seems unlikely (0+ / 0-)

          I mean, I wasn't there, so I have to take my parents' word for it a bit, but just watch some of the 50s PSAs.  They make the homosexuality-pedophilia connection repeatedly and clearly; google "homosexuality psa" to watch some of the videos.  Even to people studying human behavior in college in the 50s-70s, homosexuality was defined as a "sociopathic personality disturbance" by the American Psychiatric Association in the DSM-1 and DSM-2.  Agreed that lesbianism has had a different historical connotation.  

          "The majority of a single vote is as sacred as if unanimous." - Thomas Jefferson

          by cartwrightdale on Fri Feb 14, 2014 at 09:22:10 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  Those numbers are not (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Tool, Sylv

    her number.  They are on the invitation, which was sent by the dads.

  •  Poor Tommy. (0+ / 0-)

    Having to be raised by such a mean spirited person can't be good for him.

    "Let's stay together"--Rev. Al Green and President Obama

    by collardgreens on Fri Feb 14, 2014 at 07:02:24 AM PST

  •  A right wing friend of mine... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Tool, Fury

    ...recently posted to FB that thing about one doesn't hate someone because they disagree & one can love without giving up one's convictions. I posted a link to this & inquired whether she sees this as an example of that principle.

  •  My son would not go either... (0+ / 0-)

    because tie dye is not a good fashion choice.  It's so last decade.  hehehe

    But seriously, no matter where you live, there can be closed minded people.  We just need to live happy and not let other's get us down.

  •  And why didn't she just call the parents rather (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    than spewing her hate on their little girl?

    Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life? Mary Oliver

    by byteb on Fri Feb 14, 2014 at 07:57:14 AM PST

  •  As a parent of teenagers... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    I can tell you that kids will make up their own minds at that age and will often do the exact opposite of what their parents expect. So don't feel like this bigot ladies kid will assimilate her opinions automaticaly. It's likely her unreasonable hate will cause her son to be be twice as considerate to gays as he would have been. Sounds crazy I know but I can think of many examples of this playing out...anyone have similar thoughts or does that just sound crazy?

  •  I think others have covered this (0+ / 0-)

    I think others have covered this but I think publishing this woman's personal information, even with the fig leaf that she "asked for it" or permitted it is just both revolting and stupid. Its stupid politics piled on top of a dangerous precedent.

    Look: I've got nothing against the two dads protesting this treatment, or even publiciizing it. But they should never have descended to personalizing it and permitting this very foolish and ignorant woman to possibly be harmed by the backlash.  The very fact that people anticipate an enormous backlash against her should be warning enough not to engage in this behavior.

    She's a horrible person and she doesn't want to interact socially with this couple.  Moreover she was impolite and rage filled enough to send back their courteous invitation with an insult--so fucking what? This kind of public piling on does not serve the cause of social education or harmony in the town where this couple lives, or the classroom that their kids share.  When your kid goes to school in a certain place you are going to meet mean people, drunks, bigots, racists, and idiots.  Your child may like their kid or she may not. You may try to invite everyone in the class or you may be smart enough to realize that not everyone can or will want to socialize with you.

    The best response from the two dads would have been a gracious "So be it." Not because I think its incumbent on the victim in a hate-etiquette note drive by to be gracious but because that is the most effective response. It gives Mrs. Thing nothing to be aggrieved about. Tommy doesn't get to go to the party and has to hear about it the next day, and Mrs. Thing has to explain to Tommy why he can't be friends with someone all his other friends are friends with. Thats its own hell for a parent.

    With this publicity for her response she gets hammered publicly, and embarrassed, and harassed but that just confirms her in her world view which is that she is being victimized by gay people. And it gives other bigots a chance to come out of the woodwork to support her.

    Stupid politics and stupid behavior all around.

    •  Stupid and a waste of time?.. (0+ / 0-)

      yes. Counterproductive?...yes. Reinforces her opinions...yes.
       But certainly anyone can understand the fathers frustrations of dealing with these type people for a lifetime. Dad(s) stress pressure relief valve finally blew... I say forgive them for their frustration and let them enjoy some feelings of righteousness. But yes in my opinion hiding the phone number was the ultimate good. However noone is to be condemned for acting out in frustration.

    •  I disagree. (0+ / 0-)

      Talking about it in this way does "serve the cause of social education ".  Humans are herd animals, and many people hold opinions because most of those around them hold that opinion.  It is important that bigots be informed that their bigotry is no longer the social norm and if they want to be "in" with the herd, they'd better change.  If you want to deny people the chance to say it directly to the "stupid woman", well, it's still important to get the word out to the society as a whole that bigotry is no longer acceptable. Discussions like this help with that.  Maybe it would help to do this on a bigoted website too?

  •  Hate and little kids. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Stupid woman. This is the only words I manage to write about her behavior.

  •  So glad i'll never be a parent (0+ / 0-)
  •  AND the children shall be punished (0+ / 0-)

    for the sins of the fathers, yea, unto the 7th generation!  I'm surprised she left that part out.

    "The extinction of the human race will come from its inability to EMOTIONALLY comprehend the exponential function." -- Edward Teller

    by lgmcp on Fri Feb 14, 2014 at 09:29:32 AM PST

  •  Hmm (0+ / 0-)

    Wonder what will happen if at some point in the future little Tommy discovers he's gay.

    No being has inherent power, only the illusion of power granted by others who similarly have none.

    by Mark701 on Fri Feb 14, 2014 at 09:52:54 AM PST

  •  I want to go the the "tie dye party" (0+ / 0-)

    Poor Tommy.

  •  What a great idea for a birthday party-tie-dye. (0+ / 0-)

    You leave the party with a beautiful, unique tee shirt.

    48forEastAfrica - Donate to Oxfam> "It is better to light a candle than to curse the darkness." Edna St.V. Millay

    by slouching on Fri Feb 14, 2014 at 10:22:33 AM PST

  •  Kids don't even notice. There are gay parents (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    at her school and never once in the last 6 years has she asked or even mentioned a thing about it. If the parents don't "notice" something different then the kids don't either.

    "The poor can never be made to suffer enough." Jimmy Breslin

    by merrywidow on Fri Feb 14, 2014 at 12:21:03 PM PST

  •  All I can say (0+ / 0-)

    The responder is one bigoted nut job.
    I feel sorry for her children.

  •  Archie Bunker was a New Yorker for a reason (0+ / 0-)

    If he'd lived in, say, Mississippi, much of the audience would have missed the point of his character.  Everyone "knows" that Southerners are bigots.  He had to live in the North, to make the point that anyone, anywhere, can be a bigot.

    Yes, the South has more bigots, or at least more overt ones, the ones who will call you the N-word to your face instead of waiting until they think you're out of earshot.

    Bello ne credite, Americani; quidquid id est, timeo Republicanos et securitatem ferentes.

    by Sura 109 on Fri Feb 14, 2014 at 02:20:15 PM PST

  •  Unfortunately (0+ / 0-)

    Unfortunately, that jerk woman is not alone, they breed all over the place.

    They think that they know all about their little gods and what they have commanded without knowing the first thing about what was written, when it was written, to WHOM it was written, and WHY it was written.

    The prohibition of homosexuality and transvestism was written to the nascent Jewish nation as they were coming out of pagan Egypt.

    Their God told them NOT to emulate the pagan rituals that they had witnessed in Egypt and would see in the land into which they were going.   The "homosexuals" were RITUAL homosexuals, men and women who were heterosexual but ACTED as homosexuals for ritual reasons.  Ditto in the hate that Paul--a guy who had never even seen Jesus--who knew better but told the gentiles not to emulate.

    The person who wrote on the RSVP is a FUNNY-MENTALIST.  They have NO idea about real morality; she hates who God loves.  That seems to make her exactly what people say when they say, "She's a GOOD CHRISTIAN."

    To be fair, funny-mentalists exist in all religions, bigots come in all colors religions, etc.  Even mine.  I've as much dislike for them as  any other.  The problem is that there are one HELL of a lot more Christians than Jews, so it seems that there's more hate in Christianity, but I'll opine that percentage v percentage it's probably similar.


  •  N.Y. Mom (0+ / 0-)

    Tommy looses the most. And he doesn't know it.  Love and peace to the bigot mom.

  •  Anti gay Mom (0+ / 0-)

    I find it terribly sad that this woman is so disturbed that she feels writing those kinds of comments on a 7 year old's birthday invitation is okay. I have had experience with these kinds of women who seem to seem to exhibit neurotic, insecure, vindictive self-righteous behavior and attack others to compensate for these feelings.
    Glad she got outed.

  •  New York doesn't know it's New York (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Trees don't know we call them trees. Where there are people, there will be fools among them. I lived in Baldwin myself for over 20 years. Most of the rest was in Brooklyn and Manhattan. My first long term girl friend who I got into a live-in relationship was African-American. The morning after we moved in to our apartment in Brooklyn, that night someone had thrown a brick through the real estate broker's office window to show their disapproval of renting to a mixed couple. This was New York? Liberal town? Well only on paper as a generality. But it is rife with the same stupidity that exists everywhere in some measure or another.

    You have to put it back on the people who act out this kind of thing and not internalize it as you're doing. They are the ones eaten alive by hate--don't let their toxicity into your head.  

    "Education Is Not the Filling of a Pail, But the Lighting of a Fire" W.B. Yeats

    by RareBird0 on Sat Feb 15, 2014 at 11:01:49 AM PST

  •  Strong Straight Men stand with LGBT Bros and Sis's (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
  •  It's Tommy who will suffer for his mother's hate (0+ / 0-)

    Children do not know how to hate until they are taught to do so. Watch them at play and see that they are blind to skin color, language, or differing abilities. They certainly don't care if their friends happen to have two moms or two dads.

    This mother's ignorant and vile bigotry is the most insidious kind of child abuse for it leaves no visible marks upon the skin, but scars the heart, mind, and soul. Children are our future, and a parent chokes off the natural love that they feel for other human beings, they delay the evolution of our world into something much more beautiful, tolerant, and peaceful.

  •  This story is fake (0+ / 0-)

    You lefties are becoming a charicature of yourselves by continuing to fall for these stories.

    •  And you righties... (0+ / 0-)

      Prove how ignorant you are when you make stupid spelling mistakes like "charicature."

    •  It's Fake (0+ / 0-)

      Yeah, it's fake, but I resent the "lefties caricatures" thing.  Or maybe not---at least that means we care about such issues. I could cite any number of Fox News lies that "righties" fall for over and over again, so this is very much a pot/kettle thing.
      I also object to the comment following this one that criticizes the "rightie's" spelling of "caricature." I'm a good speller and a liberal Democrat, but I had to look that sucker up because (by damn!) I thought there was an "h" after the "c," too. In fact I think it's more logical, seeing as caricatures are often drawn to exaggerate aspects of a person's perceived character.  And there are plenty of misspellings in posts on here---just take a look.

    •  that's a silly criticism. (0+ / 0-)

      When people in the media intentionally make shit up, how is the reader supposed to know? Are you saying you realized it was a hoax before that fact was revealed?

      Gondwana has always been at war with Laurasia.

      by AaronInSanDiego on Sat Feb 15, 2014 at 11:17:50 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  The only way... (0+ / 0-)

    ...that someone could feel justified in humiliating a poor little child in such a way is if she has some religionist in here ear, spewing all sorts of vile superstitious nonsense.

  •  my two dads (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    While Sophia is a lucky little girl to have two great parents, little Tommy is not so lucky. At least he's in New York. Maybe he has a chance to grow up without hate in his heart.

  •  A bigot is a bigot is a bigot... (0+ / 0-) matter where he or she lives.

    The proudly bigoted New Yorker in this report is akin to the anti-gay mobs in Nigeria that are breaking into gay people's homes and beating them with clubs, whips and wires.

    And from the U.S. State Department or the Obama Administration--not a peep. That's because hating gay people is just your God-given right here in the ol United States of Amerikkka...

  •  This is so petty & un-newsworthy (0+ / 0-)

    A comment some irate mother put on a child's invitation is now the rallying point for whom? Really petty self righteous busybodies who imagine they are on some noble crusade. Get a life!

  •  So what are we gonna do... (0+ / 0-)

    ...stormtrooper all the people in society into accepting gays whether they want to or not? Because that's the price we pay for letting people have freedom of expression in America, and if you want that freedom taken away, get ready to face the consequences of such a loss of that freedom, because you may be forced into accepting something you're not comfortable with but will be unable to speak out against. Face it, you can't fight Naziism with Naziism.

  •  Please update or delete this diary (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    It has been revealed to be a hoax by the two morning dj's who first reported it. Don't have the link but the story is on Huffpo's front page. The DJs apologized on their stations Facebook page.

  •  My Two Dads (0+ / 0-)

    Years ago, the TV sitcom of the above title did not portray two men in a committed relationship, but it did portray an excellent image of a child being raised by two parents of the same sex.  They may not have been committed to each other, but (most importantly) they were committed to the child, something Beth might do well to remember, considering the message she is sending her own child.

  •  Pot calling kettle black-a 'spot-on' commentary! (0+ / 0-)

    It looks to me like now the gays are the bigots.

    Take me for instance.  Now we all have our rights to our beliefs, but not necessarily to what we do.  We can believe whatever we want, but we don't have the right to kill someone because we do not like the color of their tie.  I do not believe in people's 'right' to gay marriage and hold to the biblical view that homosexuality is a sin (just as unmarried sex between a man and a woman is a sin).  I have a right to that view.  You don't have to like it, either.  But that is my right.  You have the right to believe the opposite, and that doesn't make me hate you at all.  I just don't believe in that stuff.  But it is the gays who are intolerant against people who feel like I do, they don't want to tolerate the fact that some people simply don't agree with them.  So that makes those gays the bigots, not people like me.   I never said that they don't have the 'right to feel that way or hold that view.'  

    And because I simply believe that it is a sin does not make me a 'homophobe' or a 'hater' or a 'bigot' or any other false dichotomy (either/or) label that they want to put on that box.  I don't hate anyone, I am not afraid of anyone, and I am not prejudice.  I just have traditional beliefs.  I don't believe in abortion either.  But I am not 'abortophobic', I don't go around 'hating' on those who live together before marriage, and I don't go around hating anyone.  I love people but just not sin.

    So why is it that it is simply those who hold my view that people can't tolerate?!?  But everything else is okay?  But doesn't that contradict the definition of 'tolerance'?!?  That is so narrowminded!  Only if people agree with gays, then they are 'okay'?  Wow!  How bigoted!  What hatred!!!   I am going to coin a new label for that, called 'Beliefophobes' or 'straightophobes' or even 'traditionalconservaphobes'... or even better.... 'homo-phobe-ophobes'!!!   Ha!  Now how do you like it?
    And I'm gonna fly my belief flags high and proud too, regardless of who doesn't like it!

  •  overreaction (0+ / 0-)

    Having skimmed some of the comments, I think people are overreacting to this mother's response. As long as we live in a country that allows freedom of religion, there are going to be people who have a religiously-based personal objection to gay relationships. This is allowed. It is wrong to try to disallow a constitutionally legitimate point of view, and also wrong to automatically label it hatred. This repeats the same kind of generalized demonization that the gay community rightly complains about.

    The gay community needs to accept the fact that not everyone is going to accept their relationships, and people who object to homosexual sex on religious grounds need to accept the fact that gay people are allowed to have their relationships. It would normally be none of this woman's business, but it became her business when her son received the invitation. Don't you think it is better that the mother was frank to the parents about the reason her son will not attend, than declining without explanation? This gives the parents an opportunity to assure the child that it isn't because she isn't liked, etc.

    This mother isn't necessarily hateful (though she may be). She believes homosexual relationships are wrong, and she is allowed to believe that in this country, and to make personal decisions based on that belief. The trouble comes when people try to impose their religious beliefs on others through law.

  •  This reply is Spot On! (0+ / 0-)

    If you guys can't tolerate that someone else doesn't agree with you, that makes YOU the intolerant, bigoted, hatred filled 'homo-phobe-ophobes'!  

    I believe that homosexuality is a sin and I have every right to that belief, regardless of who likes it or not.  If they don't want to 'tolerate' that, then the gays are the bigots, phobics, and haters, not me.  I don't hate anyone.  I acknowledge everyone's right to believe what they want, and it would be nice if that was reciprocated by the gay community.  I do not believe that everyone has the right to do whatever they want.  Like murder etc.?  By the way, I also think that sex is a sin between a man and woman (if unmarried).  I am not prejudice, I don't hate anyone, and I am certainly not afraid of anyone.

    The question is, can YOU tolerate THAT?!? If not, then you are the 'beliefophobe', the 'bigot' and the one filled with hatred.  It works both ways.

    •  It's easy to swap when you (0+ / 0-)

      try to make bigotry politically correct. It doesn't wash.

      You are touting all your righteousness and pomposity, but Christ would not behave so.

      Love means that no matter what a person does, you accept them because they're God's child. God did not appoint you to be judge and jury. Your job is to pray lovingly for everyone and ask God to help them. You do not get to pick and choose, as Christ so beautifully demonstrated, yours is but to offer love and try to understand.

      Trouble with your philosophy is you're playing at God, and as I recall, He does not like that -at all.

      Life ain't like a box of chocolates. You pretty much do know what you're gonna get.

      by Nodin on Sat Feb 15, 2014 at 01:20:02 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Poor Tommy (0+ / 0-)

    What a shame he has to live with a mother like this.  Sickening.

  •  The fatal error is not to shame them properly! (0+ / 0-)

    These American fundamentalist bigots have nearly single-handedly killed the good name of Christianity, resulting in almost no young people showing any interest in it any longer.  This is THEIR legacy.  

    I was raised amongst them and remember that in school we who embraced modernity clearly identified their ignorance and intolerance during the Archie Bunker period as "rednecks."  It was not only an apt description but also served to shame them as when another kid was acting bigoted at school they would blanch when asked if they wanted to be known as a redneck.

    One of the greatest mistakes American liberals have done as these know-nothings were organized by talk radio and Faux into a political juggernaut was best put across to me by a lady in Spain who pleaded "Why do you not shame them? Even after Bush they still think they have the wisdom when everyone else in the world sees them as the stupidest peopl on earth, literally destroyers of civilization."  Since I see how this works subtly in my own family (who are ashamed of being willfully backward even though they show that phony Jerry Falwell beaming pride) I have tried to push it along in liberal venus.

    What I find is that HuffPost will not allow any shaming at all of rednecks and in fact censors the word every day of the year except one when the celebrate the "Redneck Olympics" with its toilet seat toss.  Nor will almost any other newspaper or media site anywhere.  

    So what hope is there when you cannot even shame those who have ruined us effectively, with the word that they themselves use to describe themselves with false pride?    The answer is that there is no hope, because until it made clear to them like after the 1964 Goldwater debacle that their views have no place in a modern society, they will continue to merrily muck up all progress so that we lag behind all other modern countries and aren't even considered one any longer!

  •  Hoax Alert (0+ / 0-)

    Huffington Post updated this story and it was a hoax.  Here's a quote from that article:  

    On Wednesday, we told you the story of Sophia's birthday party, and one parent's objection to the same-sex household of Sophia's parents. We also posted the invitation on our Facebook page, and invited comments from our followers.

    This story was, in fact, totally fictitious, and created by the two of us. This was done without the knowledge of K-98.3 management or ownership.

  •  KOS Readers Post Pro-Gay Tirades (0+ / 0-)

    KOS Readers Post Pro-Gay Tirades... on NY Mom Writing Anti-Gay Tirade on 7-Year-Old's Birthday Invite

    I'm stuck being a little useless due to an ice storm.  What're the excuses of the others who are commenting here??

    Irony: a metal like Godly or Bronze.

  •  "Morality"? (0+ / 0-)

    What sort of "agenda" does this woman believe she is accomplishing by effectively taking her bigotry out on two small children (hers and the one for whom the party is being held)?  She is free to believe as she wishes (yes, one has a right to be wrong).  But when she makes it someone else's problem, especially a child who is powerless to do anything about it, that's just plain out of line.

    I feel for her children.

  •  Why? (0+ / 0-)

    Is it so hard just to say "no thank you" or "we're busy?"

    "I don't give them Hell. I just tell the truth about them and they think it's Hell."

    by Notthemayor on Sat Feb 15, 2014 at 12:43:06 PM PST

  •  Mom's reply to Birthday Party Invite (0+ / 0-)

    I would agree that mom should have handled this invite differently. A simple thank you but no thank you would have done the trick. On the other side of the coin, the two Dads reacted just as badly by sending off the reply to the local radio station. You see neither party understands that people should if at all possible tolerate other people's actions and lifestyles etc. but that does not mean they have to accept them for themselves nor for their children. Mom was trying to reach out beyond her personal area of responsibility to "teach" the two dads that she does not like what they do and the two Dads wanted Mom to accept their life style. Both were wrong and actually the poster of this blog reveals since he has zero dog in the fight a willingness to further stir the pot. Tolerate and accept or not that is everyone's right.

    •  Hmm (0+ / 0-)

      You know, retaliation is the human thing to do.  I got to wondering how Buddha would have reacted and a story from the Zen tradition came to mind.

      You can read it here.

      For me this story has a great moderating effect and shows what needs to be done in every instance.

      You do what needs to be done and even if you are obligated to do what you have no rational obligation to do.

      The response of the two dads was retaliatory.  It was all too human a response and certainly in the way our society thinks they had every right to be riled up and angered.

      But suppose they had responded in a way that did not reflect their 'ego pain' like the Zen Master in the story.  Suppose they responded by saying they were sorry 'little johnny' or whatever her kids name was, could not attend and that he would be missed.

      Suppose they had not let their ego pain get the best of them and lead them to revenge?

      I am not criticizing them in the sense I know this was a deep, hurtful insult.  But suppose they had decided to understand this in another way like in the Zen story.

      "I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness," Allen Ginsberg

      by Hermenutic on Sat Feb 15, 2014 at 01:13:24 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  "NY Mom Anti-gay Tirade"!? Really! (0+ / 0-)

    Last time I checked, all humans had/have a right to their opinion. Just because someone disagrees with you or your beliefs, doesn't make their opinion wrong. This is a huge problem I have with people who believe in "gay rights". Every time some one has a different a opinion, they're suddenly "homophobic" or hate gay people. That's such a stupid way of thinking. It's a way to try and suppress people from having an opinion or speaking their mind. You have no right to do that, so stop! If you don't want to know someone's opinion,  then don't ask and we won't tell! I see nothing in this mom's response that makes it a "tirade". Stop all the exaggeration, because this will eventually backfire on you. Stop all the wining, everyone is not on board with your beliefs. You need to learn how to respect everyone's right to have an opinion, because apparently "gay" activists have forgotten how to do that!


      Whether or not you agree with gay folk and you obviously don't, saying "believe in" completely discounts their existence and is HUGELY INSULTING AND STUPID because human rights exist whether you or anyone believes in them or not.

      They didn't say come to our big gay birthday.
      They said come to our child's birthday.
      That prompted a nasty reply that had nothing to do with the birthday invite.

      Everything you said was irrelevant, and veiled justification for blatant mean homophobia.

      Why did you defend that reply ? Nothing you said existed in that tirade or birthday card.

      WTF is wrong with you ? They didn't ask for any opinion so there was no need for a response of opinion, including your stupid wrongheaded weakly veiled homophobic one

      A hungry man is not a free man ~ Adlai Stevenson

      by Max Runk on Sat Feb 15, 2014 at 01:19:49 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  and its bullshit like your response (0+ / 0-)

      A hungry man is not a free man ~ Adlai Stevenson

      by Max Runk on Sat Feb 15, 2014 at 01:21:50 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  It's a fake (0+ / 0-)

    And we have that assurance from the people who allegedly read it on the air, Steve and Leeanna.

    Dear K-98.3 Listeners,

    On Wednesday, we told you the story of Sophia's birthday party, and one parent's objection to the same-sex household of Sophia's parents.  We also posted the invitation on our Facebook page, and invited comments from our followers.

    This story was, in fact, totally fictitious, and created by the two of us.  This was done without the knowledge of K-98.3 management or ownership.

    We were attempting to spur a healthy discourse on a highly passionate topic, but we made a mistake by misleading our listeners into thinking that this specific situation actually existed.

    We are very sorry that we perpetuated this falsehood, even after it was clear that it had taken on a 'life of its own.'  We deeply apologize for violating your trust, and we will work hard to regain that trust.


    Steve & Leeana

  •  ENOUGH with I don't believe in... (0+ / 0-)

    Whether or not you believe in something is irrelevant, reality is reality.
    Stop saying you believe or don't and start saying you know or think.
    Stupid f'ing religious language doesn't change reality. EVER

    A hungry man is not a free man ~ Adlai Stevenson

    by Max Runk on Sat Feb 15, 2014 at 01:02:50 PM PST

  •  What they do to children (0+ / 0-)

    makes my blood boil.

    My fav closest friend is a middle aged gay man who has never acted on his sexuality because of his religion (think Utah) and family.

    His only sibling has a son that my friend dearly loves, but is not allowed to have him visit. He finally asked his brother why the boy couldn't spend some summer vacation in the mountains and was told because his parents were afraid he'd be molested and 'turn gay'.

    Not only was my gentle friend destroyed by those words, it caused an ugly confrontation between mom & youngest son.

    Most conservatives don't have a clue what homosexuality is and just lump it in with 'other than normal and therefore criminal' in their tiny minds.

    Life ain't like a box of chocolates. You pretty much do know what you're gonna get.

    by Nodin on Sat Feb 15, 2014 at 01:09:15 PM PST

  •  What's right and what's wrong (0+ / 0-)

    If something sounds Unbelievable, good chances are that it IS unbelievable.  The story is questionable.  Having said that, I'll mention this:

    Over the decades and in the Journal of Psychiatry (the desk manual), the "experts" described what was considered "normal" and "abnormal".  This manual is updated every five-seven years and (I think)the 8th addition was due to come out in 2013.  I'm not a "professional" in that field.  I DID, however, read an article that compared the descriptions of homosexuality in  each of the additions over decades.  Mental illness is actually a very imprecise science.   Psychologist and Psychiatrist will tell you that they only can compare "symptoms" and group them together and label them.  They don't know what causes them or how to "cure" them, when they are considered "abnormal."  

    Over the decades, homosexuals were, early-on, considered "abnormal."  The stigmas attached to them by religions, all over the world, were gradually worn down, over the years by "advocates" with an agenda to change the minds of the world and to have homosexuality "accepted."

    When faced with a choice between the two sides on this issue, I will not change my mind from what my religion has always taught me and what the Book of that Religion states as a Sin.  The law of the land may say, "Well, now you have to accept homosexuality.  What a laughable matter! Leave me alone.  If I don't like your life style, THAT's MY BUSINESS, not your's, not a governments, not anyone's except mine.  

    Nature, alone, PROVES that pro-creation doesn't happen without copulation with the opposite sex. So, putting religion aside, I would have to still consider homosexuality naturally "abnormal."  
    That's my opinion.  

    Representative Democracy isn't perfect, especially when the majority sits on their laurels while the misfits steal the helm.  It's still a RD and works most of the time.  

    Parents can raise their children to think whatever they choose.  As those children mature, they'll have an opportunity, unless their Amish, to decide for themselves without being shunned out of the house.

    Regarding genetic markers that point toward homosexuality, that is just more poppy-cock.  Even the scientists don't have a full understanding of genetics.  
    How about a read article that we can sink our teeth into instead this bs?

  •  salem's lot (0+ / 0-)

    I 100% disagree with this woman's views.  But there's something about using public humiliation as the first resort against something offensive said in private dialogue that rubs me the wrong way.  something of the witch trial to it, updated for current mores.

    on the other hand, it also strikes me from the woman's response that they may have played right into her hands in providing her with a larger audience.

  •  When are we going to realize our hatefulness is... (0+ / 0-)

    just as sinful as a lifestyle you don't approve of. I will let God judge the sinners.. I'm a sinner but I will raise my children to refrain from judging others. If their skin color is different than our whiteness... Or if its filled with sores and scabs.. If they are foreign or local citizens or even non citizens.. I will teach my children to love and not hate.  To show compassion and not hatred.
    I am looking for a life free of people like Tommy's mother. Unfortunately because of the way she is raising him - and like many others like her... we will suffer another generation of prejudice and pain.

  •  The story is a radio station hoax (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    So nothing to see here. Move along.

    "Because Romney's a clown . . ."--Henry Francis

    by LeftCoastTimm on Sat Feb 15, 2014 at 01:45:03 PM PST

  •  No Surprise (0+ / 0-)

    C'mon, its Nassau County!

  •  According to the Update... (0+ / 0-)

    It's a HOAX!  It was a concocted story by the morning show hosts of the radio station to "start a discussion"...  They apologized... BFD...  they should at a minimum be suspended for telling a bold-faced lie to the public.

  •  The Blessings of God: (0+ / 0-)

    I have two adult male relatives who are total bigots. I'm happy to report that both of them God has seen fit to bless them with gay male children to love. Like Dick Cheney, it gives them reasons for some re-evaluation and new thinking. Hopefully, they will all update their attitudes as their "tudes" need a tune up!

  •  a hoax (0+ / 0-)

    Did y'all see that this was a hoax letter thought up by two DJs at the same radio station that posted it on their facebook page. I personally think there is enough controvery and strife in this world without making more up. Despicable. (In my opinion.)

  •  That is not hate or homaphobia! (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    She did not say anything about the hating the two guys, she just said that she dose not agree with their lifestyle, she did not want to expose her son to it, and that she felt sorry of their little girl. Yes, she could have handled it better but she was just expressing her opinion.

    If I got a reply saying that somebody would not come because of my sexual preference, race, where I live... I would just say OK, I would not go running to a radio station complaining about it.

    Disagreeing with homosexuality or anything else is not a phobia(fear).

  •  What was that phone number? (0+ / 0-)

    So what was Beth's phone number again?  Hopefully by now she has disconnected her service, or changed her number.  If not - what was Beth's phone number again?  Would love to call and say hi.  Or other things...

  •  Amazement (0+ / 0-)

    I must say that I'm rather amazed at your discovery that "bigotry can happen anywhere and still does."  Did you really think that there was no such thing as bigotry in a city of 8 million?  Hey, guy, remember West Side Story, or Blackboard Jungle, or maybe the very real murders at Howard Beach?  Don't blame my hometown because you just discovered a bigot lives there.  And how do you know this AH is a Conservative?  I'm a Liberal and as Progressive as they come and haven't voted for a Repub in a dog's age, but we don't need that kind of unsubstantiated journalism, do we?  Libs are just as likely to hate as neo-Cons.  Incidentally, the correct spelling in this case is "lady's," not "ladies."  

  •  Update (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Chris Arc

    Radio hosts say it was a hoax.  They said their intent was to start a dialogue (which they did) but they didn't intend it to go this far apparently.

  •  You gotta be taught (0+ / 0-)

    "You've got to be taught before it's too late,
    Before you are six or seven or eight,
    To hate all the people your relatives hate,
    You've got to be carefully taught!"

    How sad that Tommy is the victim of his mother's ignorance.

    •  She has the right to protect her son (0+ / 0-)

      From what she thinks is wrong. Should she have to expose him to porno if she thinks it is wrong?

      Disagreeing with the homosexual lifestyle is not homophobia! A phobia is a fear and disagreeing with porno does not make you a pornophobic.

      •  Porno and gay people are not equivelent (0+ / 0-)

        You are equating pornography with gay people, which does not work.  Equivalent concepts would be, for instance, homophobia and heterophobia.  Pornography in this instance is your basic straw man -- you're basically equating being gay with perversion, which is simply not true.  They're not inviting her kid to an orgy.

  •  Shame. She wears it like a (0+ / 0-)

    Crown. Some people project their shame towards themselves. I was one of those, self mutilation. But everything in this world has it's opposite. She is the opposite. She projects her shame onto the world. The difference here is the one who projects it onto the world is selfish and self-centered. Many of them are perfectionists. In her case the shame is sexual in nature. As she can only see and give importance to the sexual act between two men. She has tunnel vision and can not look outside it. It is filthy, vile and evil. What she is in fact doing is projecting how she feels about herself and her relationship with sex. And as I type this she is raising a boy who will soon be a man. All we can hope is that he breaks the cycle in his family. When he is old enough to make decisions outside his mothers control he will not carry her shame into the next generation. When one can understand the complex nature of the human psyche, hopefully it can afford most of us the empathy it deserves for this woman. It is a dark place where she's at. So the dad's and the kids choose to stay in the light. Good for them. Just because others are broken, doesn't mean we have to be too. It is her burden to carry and she can do no harm to us with it unless we let her.

  •  Story is HOAX crafted by station's DJs (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Chris Arc

    When you link to the story, at the top of the page, it links to an update reporting the entire story was a hoax perpetrated by their DJs...what a pair of stupid ass-hats.
    Just pure malice. These no talents couldn't find a humorous topic to base a harmless prank?

  •  UPDATE: The story's a HOAX (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Chris Arc

    Apparently the radio hosts who reported the story aldo concocted the whole thing in failed attempt to stir discussion on homophobia:

  •  @ Chris Arc -- Excellent observations (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Chris Arc

    Chris, thank you, I meant to comment in a similar fashion, you saved me some time (and were brave given the majority opinion here).

    I'm uncomfortable with the almost hysterical overreaction I'm seeing in most of the commentary here.

    What the mother did was rude, extremely depending on your viewpoint (not nearly enough from others'). There was no apparent religious aspect to it, which makes a surprisingly huge # of comments irrelevant at best. Best.

    Should the parents be upset? Sure. Surprised? No. No matter where anyone lives in the US, the chance of all parents in any given grade school class thinking that same-sex parents are mainstream and utterly non-controversial is, I'd think, about zero.

    What the fathers did was excessive, rude, and consciously took advantage of current societal trends. I don't think blasting out to the public anything of this nature is appropriate. We live in an age where between FB, Twitter, Google+ people feel no hesitation to shout out to the world things which crash over the border of basic decency, privacy and relevance. Why then is it done? Because it's easy and "everyone's doing it." That doesn't make it right.

    Yes, the mother is awful from (most of) our perspectives, her son (children) may well have an uphill struggle not to carry along her social defects like a dead, stinking whale (they may also rise above it as a simple reaction reflecting the realities of the times)--irregardlessly, what we're seeing happen in this instance is inappropriate, given scope, nature, merit of incident, and excessive.

    The anti-gay legislation in countries like Uganda, Nigeria and Russia, the influence of the church and the intense work by our (our!), American pro-inequality, anti-gay organizations in the same countries to exacerbate and legalize homophobia ... these are worth mailing correspondence and screen caps of chat to online news media, worth the time to post indignant comments (and, if meaningfully, adding links to petitions against, contact info for the offending parties or people working to implement positive change). But this? Come on, guys. Unworthy. Worth I hope the time I took to write this. We have better fish to BBQ.

  •  The older I get (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    The happier I am to be a hermit.  This woman is just another belly full of ugly.  I am sad for her and myself and all of us.  

  •  A Hoax (0+ / 0-)

    This has been exposed as a hoax. The two radio guys say they made it up. Not helpful.

  •  It's a hoax... (0+ / 0-)

    Check your notes, fellas; it's a hoax.

  •  Yes, but it's on the Kos Recommended email (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    A few hours ago -- AFTER the hoax was revealed across the 'net -- I received the Daily Kos Recommended email and this diary is at the top of the recommended list.

  •  Pitifully stupid parents (0+ / 0-)

    This extremely homophobic mother  might plan herself a trip to Mars or move to Russia or something.  If she thinks that she will keep herself and her kids away from being exposed to people who are gay, she's pitifully mistaken.  Her PREACHER could be gay.  Her kids teachers might be gay.  Their camp counselor or nurses and doctors.  As a teenager, that child will likely be exposed to gay teens.  This idiotic woman thinks she's helping her child by putting her in a "bubble" or thinks she's being noble by teaching her child bias and hatred???  

    What a pitiful excuse for a parent.  The things that go on in her own family are probably more harmful than attending a birthday party where a gay person is present.  In fact, she is denying her child the opportunity to learn acceptance in our ever-changing world.  She is teaching her child harmful things.  WORSE YET, was her judgment of others.  Somebody should put the microscope on HER life and see how perfect it is.  WHAT A SICK PERSON.  I pity her kids.

  •  what a coincidence (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    this hoax was perpetrated by a morning show host named Steve Harper.

    Canada has a hoax government run by a guy with the same name.

    "Please proceed, Governor"

    by portlandzoo on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 07:14:24 AM PST

  •  Personally.... (0+ / 0-)

    Personally, I'm sorry Tommy has to grow up the way he ignorance and bigotry.

    Child services needs to take him away from his family and allow him to grow up open minded....his parents are being emotional and mentally abusive.

    •  Shameful Nation (0+ / 0-)

      The devil uses people to destroy others.  It seems the family or someone is using that child to destroy someone else’s.  America is a sin sick nation, and it is corrupting other countries as well.  They say, America is not in scripture.  Oh, yes it is its call Satan's domain.   There’s no street paved with gold here.

  •  Why the Hate? (0+ / 0-)

    I will never understand why people care what others do in their bedroom?  I am sick of people that hate.  Those that hate Blacks, Hispanics, Gays, the poor, Muslims or whatever they hate.  They feel the need to shove their ideas down all of our throats.  Well that is not what America was supposed to be about.

  •  A Hoax? (0+ / 0-)

    This was a hoax and Daily Kos didn't RESEARCH the story before it ran it?

    What kind of a place are you all running?

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