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Fracking is heavy industry in a rural area.
LaGrange, NY USA
Itzl AlertingAs you can see by Itzl's concerned look, this group is for us to check in at to let people know we are alive, doing OK, and not affected by such things as heat, blizzards, floods, wild fires, hurricanes, tornadoes, power outages, or other such things that could keep us off DKos. It's also so we can find other Kossacks nearby for in-person checks when other methods of communication fail - a buddy system. Members come here to check in. If you're not here, or anywhere else on DKos, and there are adverse conditions in your area (floods, heatwaves, hurricanes, etc.), we and your buddy are going to check up on you. If you are going to be away from your computer for a day or a week, let us know here.  We care!
Citizens who have seen fracking in their home towns are aware of the pain and loss that will pour over a community when the juggernaut of Hydraulic Fracturing comes to bully its way into their lives.  The costs to society are enormous, just as the profits are enormous to the industry.  Fracking operations are not good citizens.

This diary is built on information delivered in a presentation to my Town Board before its most recent meeting.  I took notes and have used them to write the diary.  Substantive resources to affirm and expand what I have written are available at the FrackFreeGenesee website.

Last week I described fracking; the toxicity, the sheer size of a well head and the wells that branch out from it; the amount of fresh water it destroys, the noise and the permanent risks to the environment that fracking brings to a location.

The well that exploded in South-western Pennsylvania last week required a 1/2 mile perimeter because of the high heat and dangerous chemicals present.  

This is not an improvement to the quality of people's lives.  In my town, there wouldn't be any location that a 1/2 mile perimeter wouldn't result in people being forced from their homes and businesses.  Remember; one accident per 150 wells per year = average.

This is what will happen when fracking moves in.

All surface water and shallow aquifers will be at risk of permanent contamination.  If a chemical laden truck crashes or a storage pond leaks, there is no going back to safe.

Keuka Lake

Heavy truck traffic will increase dramatically on the rural roads. Each well amounts to 40,000 trips with trucks carrying equipment, pipes and chemicals, both those going into the wells and the waste water that must be removed and disposed of.  Collisions of cars with big trucks will increase.

The quiet peace of the country will be replaced by the sounds of truck traffic, plus huge drills and pumps pounding away day and night. The sky will be too bright to see the stars like before from the all-night lights on the pad.

The air will be filled with the chemical smells of the operation and the increased dust and exhaust from the constant movement of the big rigs.  Those downwind will be the most exposed, even to the radon gas that will be released when the earth is disturbed.

The local workers will not have the needed skills, so the industry will import its labor from other fracking locations.  The farming and tourism jobs that the Finger Lakes region has in abundance will disappear slowly, unlikely to return.  When the drilling crews leave, only a few workers will be needed to keep the operation running.

The local town will enjoy a Boom Town scenario.  At first, landlords and eateries will find their business will be good.  Rents will go up.  Locals will not be able to afford to live in the more expensive properties and may end up homeless.  Restaurants and bars will sell food and drink 24/7.  Crime will increase as well; especially DUI and resulting car accidents. Then the drilling crew and their easy money will leave.

There will be long term and short term health consequences.  Lung cancer from chemicals and radon.  Increase in asthma. Depression.  Illnesses from drinking and bathing in water that used to be safe but has become slowly contaminated.

Sustainable employment in traditional industries will fade.  Sick animals will cause the decline of farming and hunting and fishing.  Organic farms won't be able to keep their certification. Tourists will find better places to take family vacations.  Hardwares and tractor dealers, camping resorts and nurseries, restaurants and schools will all suffer from the loss of jobs.  Families will move away and a downward economic spiral will begin.

Finger Lakes Land Use Map

The towns of rural NY are not built to handle heavy industry.  There are few who could resist the pressure of big business to convince them that it would be a great idea for them to lease their land (forever) to a petroleum company.  We have a lot of natural gas wells already in NY, many farms have more than one.  We use the abundant gas to heat our homes and run the farms.  But, they were not produced by hydro-fracking; they don't need to be that deep since there is gas above the shale, and they increase property values not damage them.

There will be an expensive increase in the need for emergency services and trained Haz-Mat personnel. More accidents, more fights, maybe spills or explosions.

Remember those trucks?  They will damage the infrastructure.  Roads that were never meant for heavy trucks will need repair and replacement,  bridges will become old before their time.  

Tanker truck

NYS just rebuilt the road that leads to our salt mine, but the short stretch that leads from the interstate highway to the mine is already falling apart, as the trucks are sometimes lined up on it for hours, waiting for their turn to be loaded with salt for a return trip to a wintery location.  The other side that goes back to the interstate just can't handle the weight of loaded truck after loaded truck.  The truckers are frustrated too, sometimes taking risks in traffic because the have to wait to enter or leave the mine.  The estimated cost of rebuilding one mile of road stands at $275,000, and of course there is traffic congestion during the reconstruction.

Property values will fall.  Fewer people will be employed locally.  The trucks will make some roads hell to live on.  The air and water won't be nice anymore.  There will be noise and light pollution.  The value of beautiful country homes people have worked their whole life to build will be lost with little chance of the value coming back.  Some lenders will refuse new mortgages to the area, because of the risk of loss of value when fracking comes to town.  Some properties will be accidentally damaged by traffic accident or toxic spill.  If a gas lease contacts your property, the lender can call the mortgage you do have, and there are legal structures in place related to eminent domain that allows drillers to access you property even if you have never given permission or benefit from a lease.

Taxes will go up.  Fewer people, reduced property values, broken infrastructure, more emergency personnel, well testing and new safe water systems to be built are all possible reasons that governments will need more money, but individuals in towns with fracking will be less and less able to pay such high taxes.  New Yorkers are already taxed at such high levels, and current increases have been more than the increases in income.  We don't have too many Wall Street types in central or western NY.

We have seen the stories of the earthquakes in Ohio and Oklahoma, the noxious gasses constantly in the air in Texas, the terrible traffic in Pennsylvania, the homelessness in the Dakotas.

All of those things and more could come to the Finger Lakes Region of New York if the governor does not say No!  We will protect what we can with moratoriums and zoning laws at the town level.  We must protect the water here as well as the people by continuing to fight hydraulic fracking in NY.

 CREDO Action & New Yorkers Against Fracking Protest Gov. Cuomo's Plan to Frack New York

So, what can you do to prevent fracking coming to your town?   The experts at FrackFree Genesee say the best way is with zoning laws that prevent that kind of industry in  non-industrial zones.  Town Boards can set moratoriums but so far, they cannot set bans in NY.  We are working on it!
I want to thank the IAN regulars for letting me explain this issue here, two weeks in a row!  Next week I will try for something far less heavy!    weck

Originally posted to Itzl Alert Network on Wed Feb 19, 2014 at 09:55 PM PST.

Also republished by Climate Change SOS, Community Rights Movement, DK GreenRoots, and Community Spotlight.

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Comment Preferences

  •  THANK YOU for presenting this valuable (19+ / 0-)

    if saddening information on IAN! I'm hotlisting it for  future reference, and while I don't usually tweet our IAN diaries, I am definitely sharing this one.

    Good luck to your community and all who are battling the fracking monster to protect their way of life!

    I don't love writing, but I love having written ~ Dorothy Parker // Visit my Handmade Gallery on Zibbet

    by jan4insight on Wed Feb 19, 2014 at 10:42:27 PM PST

  •  Rec'd And Tipped (11+ / 0-)

    I keep saying to myself; what is going on when we have no say in what our government does?

    This is not the Democratic system. In fact GOP resemble Communists/Socialists way more than any liberal, whom they love to label, does.

    I'll be 64 in March and I remember Communists stalin, kruchev, and learned about Socialists, Lennon and Marx.

    I also remember America too. Before nuclear power plants, back then all we worried about was the bomb.

    Now big business wants to blow up America, just a little bit at a time by gas fracking, wells, pipelines, toxic waste etc?

    I think anyone who promotes this destruction, are all a bunch of crazies and should be treated as such.

    Under Communism the ruling politicians smiled, and said yes we're for the people.

    But instead controlled everything their way with no power to the people.

    Sounds Familiar doesn't it? GOP thinks everyone is stupid. Their game (as we say in NJ, is  to keep trying it on).

    They've got the money to keep throwing this stuff at us.

    We just have to convince people that it's in their best interest to vote. Vote in every election no matter how small, that they need to fight back by voting these idiots out of office.

    Stuff like gas fracking is forever!

    Look what big energy and it's political cronies have done to Appalachia in the past 100 years.

    Many of these guys in Office now were there for the past 50 of those years.

    Yeah, they're old, and probably half senile. Ready to retire anyway.

    Let's get out the Democratic vote in November.

    The rich in this country have broken the people down so bad financially that many just gave up.

    But now is the time to get the US back and elect more and better Democrats.  

    2014 Midterm Elections Are Very Important, See this link. 2014 Action Alert/Even More Political Activism Needed ♥ It Will Be A Very Busy Year

    The Statue Of Liberty Thanks You All For Your Activism

    Brought To You By That Crazed Sociologist/Media Fanatic rebel ga Be The Change You Want To See In The World! Gandhi

    by rebel ga on Wed Feb 19, 2014 at 11:27:03 PM PST

  •  In the late 1970's while I was a student at (13+ / 0-)

    Akron U, I first heard about fracking.  The polymer chemists that taught me would always tell us don't every let the gas industry start fracking for gas.  It would destroy the environment. Now here we are with it going on.  

    You keep up the fight and maybe you can delay them long enough until the younger generation is in power.  They care about the environment.

    Water is too precious for the future to risk on fuel.  

    Look at the mess in North Carolina with the spill into Dan River.

    I also think this is another nail in the GOP coffin 2014.  

  •  Where is the health and safety study (15+ / 0-)

    that was due to be released months ago? Is Cuomo just sitting on it?

    Where I live near Ithaca we have banned hydrofracking, I figure it's only a matter of time before some judge overturns the ban. There were even maps of where pads would be built in the Town of Dryden. One over the hill from me. I don't want the traffic, hell, winter is as usual taking a toll on all the roads, potholes and fissures in relatively new asphalt... I already have a stone quarry between me and Ithaca. Big rocks go flying by every day.

    Yes, and the radon thing. I am doing a year-long test for radon levels in my house, because HVAC changed with a new heating system. I have a significant investment in this house, both in $$ and in emotions, and I don't want to lose that because some drilling company wants to do an in-and-out for quick profits.

    Americans, while occasionally willing to be serfs, have always been obstinate about being peasantry. F. Scott Fitzgerald, the Great Gatsby

    by riverlover on Thu Feb 20, 2014 at 01:34:30 AM PST

  •  g'day all; doctor appt today (12+ / 0-)

    been having some minor chest pain, probably only echo pain from the neuropathy but the kids keep on saying they don't want to be orphans.  The oldest is pushing 30 and the youngest 25 so I don't see how they would be orphaned should I happen to check out

  •  Problem is Cuomo's Ambition (10+ / 0-)

    Governor Cuomo (the only Governor we have at the moment) has already shown that he will do anything to ingratiate himself with the power structures that can further his Presidential ambitions.

    In other words, he is open to the highest bidder, and guess who the highest bidder is, in the case of fracking?

    It's coming.  You know, with Cuomo, it's coming.

    It's Morning in America (and the GOP has a hangover).

    by stlawrence on Thu Feb 20, 2014 at 03:15:02 AM PST

    •  Also my fear. He needs to be primary-ed by a (7+ / 0-)

      true environmentalist, just to get his head on straight.

      If love could have saved you, you would have lived forever. & http://www.dailykos.com/blog/Okiciyap

      by weck on Thu Feb 20, 2014 at 04:50:05 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  And (9+ / 0-)

        By someone who really cares about Upstate.

        Cuomo seems to want to be the super-mayor of NYC and the eastern corridor, while just throwing enough pennies to the upstate rubes to keep them quiet.

        Back to the point - given what we know about Cuomo, we can guess what the outcome of the fracking decision will be.  Cuomo will try to straddle the fence so he can claim to be pro-business and pro-environment at the same time, and my money says he will approve fracking.  Oh, he'll have all sorts of superficial and meaningless codicils that he'll claim will protect our water, but the result will be fracking.

        The one thing Upstate NY has is lots of pure, clean water.  As the west edges ever closer to disaster because of drought and poor water-planning, Upstate has lots of it.  We should protect it.  We should cherish it.  We should see it as the eventual draw that will bring business and jobs back to NY.  

        It's Morning in America (and the GOP has a hangover).

        by stlawrence on Thu Feb 20, 2014 at 06:02:02 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  All this fresh water was the reason I chose not to (7+ / 0-)

          leave New York after finishing college.  I just couldn't find any place in America that appealed to me more for a lifetime of green horizons and a little fishing.

          If love could have saved you, you would have lived forever. & http://www.dailykos.com/blog/Okiciyap

          by weck on Thu Feb 20, 2014 at 06:09:08 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Our plan was to retire in the Finger Lakes as we (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          weck, Kit RMP, translatorpro

          have family near there. That plan started to change the last few years with fracking ops. The availability of fresh water is near the top of my list when deciding on a place to live. Looks like Geneva is out now.

          "I think the Republican Party is not really a party. It doesn’t stand for anything except reelecting itself. It’s a coalition of gangs …"-David Stockman

          by GrannyOPhilly on Thu Feb 20, 2014 at 10:30:14 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  That is too bad, if Cuomo knew people were (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            GrannyOPhilly, Kit RMP, translatorpro

            already deciding to avoid the Finger Lakes region because there might be fracking there some day, maybe he would feel the pain of those who are already there too.  

            Even worse if you were planning to start a business when you retired.  He is really pushing the "come to NY and start a business; no taxes for 10 years" plan he invented.  

            If love could have saved you, you would have lived forever. & http://www.dailykos.com/blog/Okiciyap

            by weck on Thu Feb 20, 2014 at 01:29:24 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

  •  Hi IANites. (15+ / 0-)

    Thanks very much, weck, for an informative, if sobering, report. So far Germany has fought it off - funny story about that.

    German Beer Brewers Say NO to Fracking

    German Beer Purity Threatened by Fracking Say Brewers

    German brewers called on Chancellor Angela Merkel’s government to block the tapping of shale gas by means of hydraulic fracturing, citing industry concerns that fracking could taint the purity of the country’s beer.

    The Association of German Breweries, which represents companies including Anheuser-Busch InBev NV (ABI) and Bitburger Braugruppe GmbH, rejected the government’s planned legislation on fracking until groundwater contamination can be safely excluded. They said the current proposals are inadequate to protect drinking water and hence risk infringing the country’s 500-year-old law on beer purity.

    Hey, whatever works! They have a very valid point, and since beer is the national drink here, they have a lot of supporters! LOL They should stick to renewables here, being such a small, densely populated country.

    „Wer kämpft, kann verlieren. Wer nicht kämpft, hat schon verloren.“ - Bertolt Brecht

    by translatorpro on Thu Feb 20, 2014 at 03:39:47 AM PST

    •  Germany has made such progress on renewable (7+ / 0-)

      energy use, I am quite envious!

      If love could have saved you, you would have lived forever. & http://www.dailykos.com/blog/Okiciyap

      by weck on Thu Feb 20, 2014 at 04:51:05 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Germany also has (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        weck, Kit RMP

        very expensive electric rates, around $.36/Kwh which is triple the US average.

        And coal consumption is increasing in Germany.

        Concerning Europe. I would look to Sweden as a better model. The government controls the rate of new renewable with a permit system ie: you need a permit to get feed-in tarrif rates.

        And unlike Germany, Sweden does not have the first priority law for solar/wind electric. Someone has to buy the electric from you.

        •  There are benefits to both models; I am sure that (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Kit RMP, translatorpro

          I would be even more careful about usage if my rates were that high.

          If love could have saved you, you would have lived forever. & http://www.dailykos.com/blog/Okiciyap

          by weck on Thu Feb 20, 2014 at 10:13:20 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  I live in Germany, and (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          high uintas, weck, Kit RMP, orlbucfan

          no one I know is complaining, because we know it is ultimately for the good of the planet. We are sucking up the higher cost of breaking new ground on renewables for the benefit of the rest - just look how much cheaper alternative energy sources have become as both a direct and indirect result since the German Renewables Act was passed in 2002.

          As Kossack Lawrence once pointed out:

          The German people almost single-handedly financed the scaling up of solar pv for numerous years.  They alone were installing more than the rest of the world for a couple of years.
          http://www.dailykos.com/...
          Besides, there is generally a high standard - and thus cost - of living here in Germany - most things are more expensive than in the US for that reason. One cannot calculate 1:1 regarding prices on anything.

          I never can understand why people in other countries care what we pay for power here, anyway. Germany has zero domestic fuel sources besides lignite, which is just about the worst possible fossil fuel to burn, so it is in the interest of the country and the environment to become energy independent (i.e. stop importing so much oil and gas) as an added bonus.

          „Wer kämpft, kann verlieren. Wer nicht kämpft, hat schon verloren.“ - Bertolt Brecht

          by translatorpro on Thu Feb 20, 2014 at 04:05:51 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I admire how Germany manages their energy and (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Kit RMP, translatorpro, orlbucfan

            labor issues.  I have been hoping that NY would double the rate it charges for bottle deposits.  I am sure that many more bottles and cans would be returned if the deposit had a higher "value".  At 5 cents, even kids don't see value in returning bottles any more.  The should expand it to cover more than beverage containers, too.

            Having a higher price for electricity has really increased the benefit to the earth in Germany as far as I can see.  I would also assume that German families are thrifty with their use of power as well, using appliances that are efficient and turning off the lights they do not need!  My German grandparents were like that, it was just their lifestyle.  I thought it was the Depression that made them thrifty, but perhaps it goes deeper.

            If love could have saved you, you would have lived forever. & http://www.dailykos.com/blog/Okiciyap

            by weck on Thu Feb 20, 2014 at 07:22:18 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Definitely a cultural thing. (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              weck, orlbucfan

              Give a German a tax break, and it's unlikely the savings will be spent, but rather put aside "for a rainy day". ModMark is using the usual and long-discredited pro-nuclear power talking points against Germany - pro-nuke advocates were very unhappy when Germany shut down several nuclear power plants after Fukushima. The rest of them will be shut down by 2024, which also makes the big German utilities who missed the renewables boat unhappy. I spent a lot of time on DK a couple of years ago refuting the sheer, unadulterated nonsense the DK pro-nuke contingent at the time was spouting about Germany (ranging from Russian gas conspiracy theories to Germans being scared of tsunamis!!!- laughable) and trying to ridicule the energy transition's efforts. It's amazing to me that any attempts to help the planet can bad-mouthed by people who refuse to see it as being beneficial to them or even view it as a threat to their pet fossil/nuclear fuel industry. That is extremely selfish, short-sighted and dangerous to future generations, as any sane person should realize.

              „Wer kämpft, kann verlieren. Wer nicht kämpft, hat schon verloren.“ - Bertolt Brecht

              by translatorpro on Fri Feb 21, 2014 at 12:01:34 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Take the renewable bliders off (0+ / 0-)

                and read what is going on in Germany with Energiewende. I have no love affair with nukes, it is simply a matter of  building a generation system which can supply reliable electric while reducing CO2.

                What's not to love about solar and wind. If the German experiment proves to the world we can build a reliable electric infrastructure with no nukes, no NG combine cycled turbines and no coal then let follow the German model.

                But that doesn't seem to be the case in German right now, it is a mess these days. You can't ignore the fact that coal consumption is on the rise in German and the nukes are still online.

                For me one web site, PV electricity produced in Germany,  show the true issue with solar. Right now it is 6.1 Gw, far below the record 24.9 Gw. How do you replace the equivalent of 18 nukes? For 2013, 2Gw is the low.

                The basic problem, Energiewende is a political solution while energy production is an engineering problem.

                http://www.sma.de/...

          •  Should we use the German plan (0+ / 0-)

            Higher electric rates is a double edge sword, it does encourage more efficient use of electric which Germany does far better than the US.

            The actual consumption of electric is very clean and electric devices tend to be very efficient. Long term we need to set the goal of becoming a near all electric society, we need to encourage converting to electric system.

            But high electric rates make fossil fuels more viable. Can you justify the high price of PHEV/EV cars with the high cost of recharging them? Solar/wind does not replace gasoline/diesel with ICE cars on the road.

            In the US, I cannot justify the high cost of a ground source heat pump for my home at $.12/Kwh, we are well supplied with natural gas. Triple the price of electric and I may go off the grid with a natural gas generator for electric with NG fireplaces and a NG furnace for heat.

            Our countries are different, what is good Germany is bad for the US.

            •  No one has said that the US (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              weck, orlbucfan

              should copy the German model - you brought it up. Of course, every country needs to find its own, no one is disputing that. The point is that the US took a back seat to alternative energy solution development for decades (since Reagan removed the solar panels from the WH roof) when they should have been moving their own ideas and models forward. Now we (Americans) are in deep trouble and scrambling to catch up, when we should have been the leaders, not the followers of examples set by Germany or Denmark or whichever country years after Carter's early initiatives.

              „Wer kämpft, kann verlieren. Wer nicht kämpft, hat schon verloren.“ - Bertolt Brecht

              by translatorpro on Fri Feb 21, 2014 at 04:08:38 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Many are saying, look to the Germans (0+ / 0-)

                This conversation started with a reply to the quote "Germany has made such progress on renewable energy use, I am quite envious!" which got a +7 rating.

                No nukes, no coal or natural gas means the German plan.

                The "taking a back seat " argument can also be used by the pro-nukers. If we followed France's model, coal fired plants could have been phased out by now. And we could building a Gen 4 reactor.

                We are responsible for our action and we are paying the price now. Instead of banning NNdadir, we should have listen to him.

                •  Maybe if he hadn't been so nasty, (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  weck

                  arrogant and just a plain ol' jackass, calling people names and saying stuff like the Greenpeaceniks are happy that X millions of people die from CO2 emissions every year, he might still be here. He went over the line many times, and wrecked his own message. No one to blame but himself. By the way, why did it take you several years to start commenting here? What prompted your emerging out of the woodwork? And you are following NNadir. And only him...
                  Maybe it would have been better if you had followed him to wherever he is spewing his vitriol these days.

                  Because someone admires Germany's initiative, and there has been amazing progress made there, STILL doesn't mean that model should be emulated elsewhere. This thread is dead. Bye.

                  „Wer kämpft, kann verlieren. Wer nicht kämpft, hat schon verloren.“ - Bertolt Brecht

                  by translatorpro on Fri Feb 21, 2014 at 01:28:48 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  About NNadir (0+ / 0-)

                    I am interested in energy. A few years ago someone mention DME as a synthetic fuel so I google it. Up came NNadir diaries on DME, I thought they were quite brilliant, I am more interested in solution than politics.  I did exchange a few messages with him.

                    I am a HuffPuff refugee, that place is dead. I am searching for new places to discuss energy issue. If truly concern about climate change and energy, we should be discussing Germany including what went right and wrong .

                    It is frustrating, most of the 'pundits' still at HuffPuff don't know that the export link for the XL pipeline has been built. Kind of hard to have an intelligent conversation when they lack basic knowledge on the topic.

                    Anyways, I apologies for the troll concerning NNadir and have a great weekend.

                    •  I decided to come back and answer this, (0+ / 0-)

                      as you seem sincere in wanting to discuss energy issues in a rational manner. I was beginning to suspect you may be a zombie (banned user under a new ID, which is not allowed), but now I don't think you are.

                      I'm afraid you won't find a lot of discussion on energy issues here at DK these days, and those that do take place are generally not very science-oriented. We are first and foremost politics junkies here, and energy matters are pretty much a side issue in the context of politics. We had a small contingent of pro-nuke people here at one time, and lively (rancorous) discussions ensued, but the most vocal were banned because of incivility (what IS it about them???), and the remaining few got tired of fighting a losing battle. I only got involved because of the ridiculous lies they were trying to disseminate about Germany, because I live here (expat) and refuted the bullshit. Since those guys left, I haven't had a rousing renewable energy resources argument in awhile...

                      Here is one of the few diaries I wrote - this one concerning German energy policy, which you might find interesting, even if the information is two years old.
                      http://www.dailykos.com/...

                      Here are some links that might help you find the type of discussion you are looking for:
                      Google Search "Energy Blogs"

                      Good luck to you.

                      „Wer kämpft, kann verlieren. Wer nicht kämpft, hat schon verloren.“ - Bertolt Brecht

                      by translatorpro on Sun Feb 23, 2014 at 09:53:28 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

  •  Today's the day. (10+ / 0-)

    I'll practice with the kids on their solos this morning, then have a little down time at home.  At 4p.m., we'll go to the school where the festival is held and spend until around 8p.m. playing for the judges.  That is a lot of bench time for my neck and back, but I can do it once a year.  The forecast is for high winds tonight with a small possibility of more rain.  As long as the temps stay above freezing, we should be okay.

    This fracking business is frightening.  It's not just the known effects that I worry about, but the unknowns that get me.

    -7.62, -7.28 "Hold fast to dreams, for if dreams die, life is a broken winged bird that cannot fly." -Langston Hughes

    by luckylizard on Thu Feb 20, 2014 at 04:12:33 AM PST

    •  I think the students are lucky to have an (7+ / 0-)

      experienced accompanist at Solo Festival.  And most of them will be too scared to thank you!

      If love could have saved you, you would have lived forever. & http://www.dailykos.com/blog/Okiciyap

      by weck on Thu Feb 20, 2014 at 04:53:34 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Actually, a number of them have (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        weck, Kit RMP, translatorpro

        thanked me already.  Some will remember to do so tonight.  These are Catholic school kids from a not-so-affluent area, and that kind of thing is drilled into them every day.  The ones from the ritzy school I've done in the past are a little less grateful.  :-(

        At least half of them will do okay tonight, a few will do quite well, and a couple will be better off if they don't show up at all.  It could be an interesting evening.

        -7.62, -7.28 "Hold fast to dreams, for if dreams die, life is a broken winged bird that cannot fly." -Langston Hughes

        by luckylizard on Thu Feb 20, 2014 at 09:19:54 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Good morning. (8+ / 0-)

    Well you got me curious about what's going on in Illinois with fracking.   So I did a little research and found out that Illinois legislators are expected to introduce a bill in coming days or weeks that would regulate fracking in the state.   There's a de facto moratorium in Illinois until regulations are passed.   As the bill now stands, it could be the most stringent in the nation.

    Thanks weck for peaking my curiosity.

    Have a nice day.

    I am a work in progress. Still.

    by broths on Thu Feb 20, 2014 at 04:33:08 AM PST

  •  I love the Finger Lakes and would like to (6+ / 0-)

    support you.  I'm against fracking anywhere.

    What is Cuomo's position on fracking?  

    Information is the currency of democracy. ~Thomas Jefferson

    by CIndyCasella on Thu Feb 20, 2014 at 05:56:18 AM PST

    •  Cuomo is holding his position close to his chest. (6+ / 0-)

      NY has been "studying" the matter, and the report should have been completed, but, since it is an election year, the report has not been released to the public.

      In the mean time, there is a moratorium on hydro-fracking in NY.  

      Various towns are using moratoriums, bans and zoning to try and keep it out of their local areas, and the principle of "home rule" has been successful in court to keep these preventative methods in place so far.  

      There is big money involved, so we fear the worst once the election is over.  

      If love could have saved you, you would have lived forever. & http://www.dailykos.com/blog/Okiciyap

      by weck on Thu Feb 20, 2014 at 06:04:28 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Hold their feet to the fire. Make them show you (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        translatorpro, weck, Kit RMP

        the report.  Send in people to ask fracking questions during meet and greets and town meetings.  Don't let them snow you, dilly dally, or put this issue on the back burner.

        Good for all of you.  Thank you.

        Information is the currency of democracy. ~Thomas Jefferson

        by CIndyCasella on Thu Feb 20, 2014 at 07:40:22 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I think the holding pattern is allowing the groups (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          translatorpro, Kit RMP

          who oppose more time to organize and network.  The decision to collect money for re-election campaigns from industry doesn't just apply to the governor,  and remember the NYS Assembly and Senate is truly dysfunctional right now.  As always.

          If love could have saved you, you would have lived forever. & http://www.dailykos.com/blog/Okiciyap

          by weck on Thu Feb 20, 2014 at 08:07:34 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I was told by an upstater that Cuomo is waffling (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            weck, translatorpro, Kit RMP

            on this issue.  He should be behind the environment and you.  Make him state his backing the environment of New York State unequivocally.  Don't put up with these shenanigans with industry and the "wait until after the election" malarkey.  Wait until after the election has gotten us into more wars than we can count.  What a way to put good people at a disadvantage!

            What about the wine industry?  Since industry has more clout, can you get the wine makers on board with you?

            Information is the currency of democracy. ~Thomas Jefferson

            by CIndyCasella on Thu Feb 20, 2014 at 08:14:54 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Wine making isn't "Big Business" but tourism is. (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              CIndyCasella, translatorpro, Kit RMP

              So many votes come from down state that mid state and western NY don't have a lot of clout.  So much big money comes from down state that we will never be able to compete.  Upstate NY is really quite "red", but even republicans can see the danger in letting heavy industry come to rural NY.

              If love could have saved you, you would have lived forever. & http://www.dailykos.com/blog/Okiciyap

              by weck on Thu Feb 20, 2014 at 08:37:16 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Doesn't Rochester get its great water supply from (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                weck, translatorpro, Kit RMP

                the finger lakes?  Rochester is true blue.  It's in their best interest not to allow fracking in your region.  Louise Slaughter is a good congresswoman.  Get her on board.  Write an op ed in the Democrat and Chronicle to let the Rochesterians know that their water supply is at risk here, too.

                Information is the currency of democracy. ~Thomas Jefferson

                by CIndyCasella on Thu Feb 20, 2014 at 08:55:34 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  I think Rochester gets water from Hemlock Lake (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Kit RMP, translatorpro

                  and maybe some from Lake Ontario, too.

                  Rochester the city is true blue, but many of the towns that surround it are not.  The Genesee River flows through the city and into Lake Ontario; the headlands for the river are in Allegheny county, where there is currently a fight to dis-allow the expansion of a landfill that is taking solid fracking waste from other states.  The watershed for the river is basically from the Pennsylvania state line to the Lake that borders Canada.

                  Damaging that River would impact both Americans and Canadians.  Ontario is a big and deep lake, with Toronto on the other side.

                  If love could have saved you, you would have lived forever. & http://www.dailykos.com/blog/Okiciyap

                  by weck on Thu Feb 20, 2014 at 09:18:06 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

  •  Thanks for such an eye-opening (5+ / 0-)

    pair of diaries, weck!

    As I told you last week, I have big doubts about Cuomo, but I've not lost hope. It would be great to see him primaried, wouldn't it?

    Kind of busy today. Will come back to the diary later to check links, etc.

    Thanks again, & hope everybody has a good day!

  •  Cuomo guidance (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    weck, Amber6541, translatorpro, Kit RMP

    My niece, who has double MAs in Business and Environmental Studies and works for a big energy corp, says that they key is to insist they figure out how to get the gas safely. If we let them do it fast and dirty, they will. If we show they will not get permission to do that, then they will figure out how to do it safely.
    All they care about is the  money. And all Cuomo cares about is his votes. And all we care about is our beautiful Finger Lakes' future.  

    •  Truly, I cannot think of how to be truly safe with (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      translatorpro, Kit RMP

      either the drilling process or the ground transportation.  There is so much opportunity for accidents.  Perhaps a huge cash bond might be required, to be left in place for at least a few generations.  Make it unprofitable and they will find something else to do!  The Tobacco companies did!

      There is no place on earth like the region between the Great Lakes and the Finger Lakes.

      If love could have saved you, you would have lived forever. & http://www.dailykos.com/blog/Okiciyap

      by weck on Thu Feb 20, 2014 at 07:12:21 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Wonderful diary, weck! (6+ / 0-)

    I really, really hope that Fracking never comes to New York. Upstate is so beautiful. Ex is on board of frat at Cornell, so we visited a few times.

    I miss Cactusgal, too! Mom, I miss you!

    by BadKitties on Thu Feb 20, 2014 at 06:32:19 AM PST

    •  Thanks for this link, it shows the extraordinary (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      translatorpro, marina, 4Freedom, Kit RMP

      steps an individual must take to be able to prove damages.

      It is like damage to your car from a pothole, If you don't report it before the damage occurs, the government has no liability for your broken axel.

      I think she showed great foresight in having her well tested as soon as she found out there would be fracking nearby, and before the well was damaged.

      If love could have saved you, you would have lived forever. & http://www.dailykos.com/blog/Okiciyap

      by weck on Thu Feb 20, 2014 at 07:20:04 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  We were warned (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        4Freedom, translatorpro, weck, Kit RMP

        that to have a legal leg to stand on if any problems should occur, we had to have our water tested ourselves by a certified laboratory, to establish a baseline reading. The lab tech has to draw the water samples, you can't just do it yourself, for the readings to be treated as unbiased in a legal proceeding.

        The gas drillers will test your water if you're within a certain distance of a future well, but their testing is insufficient and doesn't include all potential pollutants, so it is not so helpful in court or arbitration.

        Our water testing cost $500 that we couldn't afford, but we felt we had to have it done because they drilled a well up the mountain from where we live. (We are okay so far, I don't think the well is productive--yet.)

  •  Even if I hadn't gone to college in this region (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    weck, translatorpro, Kit RMP

    and driven and biked across it and even if it wasn't incredibly beautiful, I'd support your call to prevent fracking and other extraction industries from despoiling it and its people and other life forms. The only kind of extraction we need to be expanding is from the sun, wind and tides, which supply all the energy we really need. Conservation + sustainable energy = future.

    Investing in fracking is like borrowing from a pay day lender or loan shark.

    "Reagan's dead, and he was a lousy president" -- Keith Olbermann 4/22/09

    by kovie on Thu Feb 20, 2014 at 07:17:29 AM PST

  •  Your community has the right to oppose fracking (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    translatorpro, weck, Kit RMP

    on a Constitutional basis and win.

    Please check out this story about a community in IL doing just that.

    The Southern Illinoisan: Fracking to appear on March ballot in Johnson Countyby Becky Malkovich, The Southern Illinoisan
    December 13th, 2013

    In Johnson County, IL, a Community Rights advisory question in support of a fracking ban has been submitted for the March ballot with more than double the required number of signatures.

    The Community Environmental Legal Defense Fund is assisting people to press for their rights to self-governance. Do contact them.

    We have it within our power to make the world over again ~ Thomas Paine

    by occupystephanie on Thu Feb 20, 2014 at 07:41:06 AM PST

    •  Zoning laws have been more effective in NY than (3+ / 0-)

      bans, but I believe that all the stops will be pulled when needed.  In NY we don't have the right to put propositions on the ballot, and having a moratorium until hydro-fracking can be done "safely" pretty much makes it a permanent moratorium.

      We just need to elect local leaders who support the environment over the rights of the petroleum industry.

      If love could have saved you, you would have lived forever. & http://www.dailykos.com/blog/Okiciyap

      by weck on Thu Feb 20, 2014 at 08:14:35 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Thanks for the info (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        weck, Kit RMP, translatorpro, orlbucfan

        I notice that only 11 states have unfettered rights of initiative and referendum but any way to work it locally is good.

        The people in my community who are fighting are basing it on article I of our state Constitution which says that self governance is a natural inherent right. Their ordinance passed Constitutional muster and will likely face Biotech-funded GMO sugar beet farmers who will lay suit against it. Lane County is going through the same thing. Jackson County's ordinance will appear on their ballot, so progress is being made!

        We have it within our power to make the world over again ~ Thomas Paine

        by occupystephanie on Thu Feb 20, 2014 at 09:43:27 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Love and kisses from Ithaca (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    weck, translatorpro, Kit RMP

    Thanks for trying to save it!  Your excellent presentation is now bookmarked for later dissemination.

    •  The website mentioned is fantastic as a resource! (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      translatorpro, Kit RMP

      Ithaca has some of the prettiest country in all of NY.  

      I bet if you contacted FrackFreeGenesee you could have the same presentation as I saw at the Town Board meeting.  

      Do you have a group and a place?  There is a lot of audio-visual  material that I couldn't bring to a diary.

      I think Bob Thompson lives near Conesus Lake, so not too far a trip for him to make!

      If love could have saved you, you would have lived forever. & http://www.dailykos.com/blog/Okiciyap

      by weck on Thu Feb 20, 2014 at 08:21:27 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Organic Farmers, local food, and fracking: (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    weck, 4Freedom, translatorpro, Kit RMP

    A friend shared this link from Northeast Organic Farming Association-NY  Catskill/Hudson Region

    Whether it is a junkyard law or an anti-fracking law, the impetus remains the same: We desire legislation that protects our right and need to be self-reliant. Hyrdo-fracking purports to offer some quick cash for a few landholders, but everyone else runs the risk of losing their self-reliance when drinking wells either dry up or the water becomes too polluted to drink. If we no longer have potable water to raise our vegetables, can our tomatoes, make jelly from the wild brambles, or care for our livestock, we’ve lost our ability to take care of ourselves and thrown our well-being at the mercy of government, charity, and the companies who are now in business to haul water to communities that are confronting the fall-out of hydro-fracking.

    Resist much, obey little. ~~Edward Abbey, via Walt Whitman

    by willyr on Thu Feb 20, 2014 at 07:58:29 AM PST

    •  When folks from other states think of NY, so (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      willyr, 4Freedom, translatorpro, Kit RMP

      often they visualize the city.  NY's mountains, rivers, lakes and even canals need to be safe so that farmers can thrive here.

      If some e coli in the water/ on the vegetables can send the whole country into a tizzy over safe food, what happens when the water is tainted by fracking chemicals?

      This is something that must be prevented, not cleaned up!

      If love could have saved you, you would have lived forever. & http://www.dailykos.com/blog/Okiciyap

      by weck on Thu Feb 20, 2014 at 08:27:22 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  My father is from the Finger Lakes region; (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    translatorpro, weck, Kit RMP

    a cousin works in one of the salt plants.  They are generally clean and safe.  The wine industry is booming beyond belief, and it does not destroy the land.  
    I recognize the first pic as Keuka Lake, probably as seen from Konstantine Frank's winery.

    I often point to the Finger Lakes region to show that you do not have to blast the earth to bits in order to bring in jobs; you do not have to destroy the village in order to save it.

  •  This just in: Frackgate (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    translatorpro, weck, Kit RMP, orlbucfan

    This is just about as ugly as it can get: http://truth-out.org/...

    We need to consolidate the anti-fracking to the entire country instead of letting the frackers divide and conquer.  I know people in Vermont who have tackled this, now you in the Finger Lakes, and these poor souls in Ohio.

    Information is the currency of democracy. ~Thomas Jefferson

    by CIndyCasella on Thu Feb 20, 2014 at 09:13:02 AM PST

  •  Thank you. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    translatorpro, weck, Kit RMP

    Bookmarked for future reference.

  •  Why frack in New York (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    weck, Kit RMP

    Just let PA supply us with natural gas. While we have a ban on fracking, Cuomo did allocate some money a couple years  ago for natural gas projects, New York City now has a new natural gas pipeline right into Manhattan filled with fracked PA gas.

    And New York is one of the largest consumer of fuel oil in the nation, the folks on Long Island don't seem to mind spend $4/gallon to heat there homes.

    It seems we also lead the nation in the number of hypocrites in our state. No wind turbines, no nukes, no natural gas, no natural gas terminals for importing, ...

    Maybe Quebec will build another massive hydro dam for us.

    •  The fracked parts of Pennsylvania are a mess. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Kit RMP, translatorpro

      And it is true that New Yorkers don't pull together on very many issues.  I don't think the urban and rural parts of the state can see each other, figuratively speaking.

      If love could have saved you, you would have lived forever. & http://www.dailykos.com/blog/Okiciyap

      by weck on Thu Feb 20, 2014 at 10:24:28 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  What I wish NY would do (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Kit RMP

        Run a few test sites in the southern tier to test the new regulations.

        We can learn from all the mistake made in PA and if the gas industry say they can do it with acceptable risk then prove it.

        Since many of the wells in PA are near the NY border, that might be a good place for a test well. The ground aquifers don't stop at the state line.

        I have some good friends who live in 'rural' NY in a very nice large home in the country. They are anti-fracking, anti-Keystone yet three of them commute every day to Rochester, 120 miles total.

        At least buy one Volt for the family but no, not even one hybrid is used for their commutes.

        I don't get it..

  •  it's is bit (5+ / 0-)

    mom is not going to be no today she has a bruise spine and she went to the hospital this morning but she is back now

    "Madness! Total and complete madness! This never would've happened if the humans hadn't started fighting one another!" Londo Mollari

    by FloridaSNMOM on Thu Feb 20, 2014 at 12:51:20 PM PST

  •  Just found out that Gusher State, (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    weck, Kit RMP, translatorpro

    an oil company is drilling exploratory wells in my county, Cochise County, Arizona. They plan to frack it if the wells look promising.

    •  Good luck to you in fighting this, if you are so (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Kit RMP, translatorpro, Paul Ferguson

      inclined.  The wells can spread out like a spider from the well head, as much as a mile in any direction.  Where do you suppose they will take the millions of gallons of necessary water from in Arizona?  Where will the toxic waste go when they are done drilling?  Who will they be selling the gas to?

      If love could have saved you, you would have lived forever. & http://www.dailykos.com/blog/Okiciyap

      by weck on Thu Feb 20, 2014 at 07:28:03 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  We have a cousin in Penn Yann. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    weck

    This area of upstate NY is beautiful. From what I know of our cousin the citizens of the area are pretty conservative. So how is this really settling with the folks that live there? I would imagine the grape growers aren't too happy about it.

    We visited the area in the fall of 1989 and fell in love. We were already committed to moving to Denver or else we would have considered somewhere in your area to move we loved it so much.

    •  I think the more conservative people in the area (0+ / 0-)

      are counting on progressive activists to stop fracking.  They are not coming out in favor of it, or doing anything to hassle those who are speaking and acting to prevent fracking.  

      Spreading the word about how rural living will be impacted is the strategy right now, Also, getting local town boards and zoning boards to throw up as many roadblocks as they can until fracking is banned in NYS.

      Penn Yan  is one of the most beautiful towns in the entire area!

      If love could have saved you, you would have lived forever. & http://www.dailykos.com/blog/Okiciyap

      by weck on Fri Feb 21, 2014 at 06:53:17 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

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