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Matt Wuerker
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Originally posted to Comics on Thu Feb 20, 2014 at 02:50 PM PST.

Also republished by Daily Kos.

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Comment Preferences

  •  ya know, sometimes a cartoon is worth a 1000 words (15+ / 0-)

    bing-fucking-o.

    “You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete.” Buckminster Fuller

    by pfiore8 on Thu Feb 20, 2014 at 03:02:32 PM PST

  •  sometimes, a cartoon is worth a 1000 words (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    420 forever

    bing_fucking_o

    “You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete.” Buckminster Fuller

    by pfiore8 on Thu Feb 20, 2014 at 03:05:23 PM PST

  •  hmmmm... don't know what's happening w/ (8+ / 0-)

    the comments, but the first one said there was some error and now, there it is...  oh well.

    “You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete.” Buckminster Fuller

    by pfiore8 on Thu Feb 20, 2014 at 03:06:38 PM PST

  •  Betrayal. Ah. America. ( nt) (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mungley, JVolvo, dinotrac, Nattiq

    Hard to have a government when one-third of your representatives are insane and the other two-thirds have been sold to the highest bidder.

    by Rikon Snow on Thu Feb 20, 2014 at 03:08:28 PM PST

  •  When is the big O gonna make a decision? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    dinotrac, Amber6541

    "Onward through the fog!" - Oat Willie

    by rocksout on Thu Feb 20, 2014 at 03:09:37 PM PST

  •  asdf (0+ / 0-)

    obama sure does seem like the sort of guy who'd commission a 200 foot tall statue of himself in the national mall.

    anyone born after the McDLT has no business stomping around acting punk rock

    by chopper on Thu Feb 20, 2014 at 03:10:57 PM PST

  •  The 'wolf in the Sochi dorms' vid was a hoax. (0+ / 0-)

    Jimmy Kimmel strikes again.

    http://sports.yahoo.com/...

    "Go well through life"-Me (As far as I know)
    This message will self-destruct upon arrival in the NSA archives in Utah.

    by MTmofo on Thu Feb 20, 2014 at 03:12:54 PM PST

  •  You do realize... (6+ / 0-)

    Whether the pipeline is built or not, the Canadian Tar Sands are still going to be mined for oil and it is still going to be transported to refineries.  The only difference is that it will be shipped via trains and trucks.  In effect, increasing carbon emissions.

    I am all for fighting and ending the extraction of oil from the Tar Sands.  However, wasting energy fighting the construction of a pipeline that will have no effect on whether Canadians will continue extract the oil from the Tar Sands only alienates people unnecessarily and when the battle is inevitably lost, will marginalize opposition and make the fight to shut down the extraction all the harder.

    The energy that has been devoted to preventing the pipeline should have instead been used to apply pressure upon the Canadian Government and electorate to stop the extraction all along.  As it is, the extraction is now firmly entrenched and will be even harder to end.

    A person's character is measured by how they treat everyone. Not just your pet group.

    by Tempus Figits on Thu Feb 20, 2014 at 03:14:10 PM PST

    •  I have a similar view, but I would recognize the (0+ / 0-)

      fact that we are currently the single largest user of Canadian tar sands oil and it's very hard to summon up much moral authority under those circumstances.

      We should  practice what we preach and start using less of the stuff.

      LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

      by dinotrac on Thu Feb 20, 2014 at 03:21:16 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Agreed (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        dinotrac, visionblack

        The funny thing is that we are.  Per Capita consumption of Oil has been dropping.  Some it has been due to the recession and that people couldn't afford as much.  But we are also buying more fuel efficient cars and using energy efficient appliances.  

        A person's character is measured by how they treat everyone. Not just your pet group.

        by Tempus Figits on Thu Feb 20, 2014 at 03:33:51 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Ought to make it easier to fill our needs from (0+ / 0-)

          other sources, wouldn't you think?

          Honestly, if I were looking at efforts to block Keystone from outside the US, I would think we were just trying to hoard the stuff for ourselves.

          LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

          by dinotrac on Thu Feb 20, 2014 at 03:54:36 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  All of the Keystone oil is destined for export. (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            gooderservice, akmk, dinotrac

            That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

            by enhydra lutris on Thu Feb 20, 2014 at 04:33:16 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  And Canadians are quite worried that no keystone (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              dinotrac, enhydra lutris

              WILL in fact delay, if not derail, tar sands exploitation.

            •  Yes it is, which will kill our leverage. (0+ / 0-)

              A significant part of the country gets about a 10 cent break on gasoline due to tar sands oil.  If oil can reach world markets more easily, that break goes away.

              LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

              by dinotrac on Thu Feb 20, 2014 at 06:14:56 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Really? Read this (0+ / 0-)

                ahlbidniz

                Tar sands, fwiw is some of the costliest oil to transport and refine.

                That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

                by enhydra lutris on Thu Feb 20, 2014 at 07:25:45 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Price and cost are not the same thing. (0+ / 0-)

                  Related, as nobody can sell indefinitely at a loss, but not the same.

                  Price is a function of what the market will bear.
                  If you cannot sell your oil to the world at large, you lose leverage with the market you do have.

                  LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

                  by dinotrac on Fri Feb 21, 2014 at 05:33:53 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Precisely (0+ / 0-)
                    Price is a function of what the market will bear.
                    Though, in reality, it is a function of what the price setter's think that the market will bear, and when you have a fungible product, specific sources have only a tiny impact . If tar sands oil has an impact on prices it is solely thgough marketing and if it depresses retail prices, then it is through marketing error on somebody's part, because they could equally well push for higher prices given the general view of the citizenry that price is driven by supply and cost.

                    That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

                    by enhydra lutris on Fri Feb 21, 2014 at 10:29:56 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Not a quite a fungible product, though (0+ / 0-)

                      Keystone would make it one.

                      At present, Canadian suppliers have a limited range of options for selling their oil.  A goodly little little swath of the US benefits from the Canadians' market restrictions.  Not a lot, but a little.

                      LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

                      by dinotrac on Fri Feb 21, 2014 at 11:45:16 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

    •  Well said... (5+ / 0-)

      However, the point of the cartoon stands -- that Obama has been and is continuing to be a CLEVER MANIPULATOR of the majority wish to see the environment protected, while in fact he consistently compromises with and caters to corporate interests.

      The White House smoke and mirror show about the pipeline continues, while it is perfectly obvious that the decision to go ahead with the project has already been made.  Money talks, Obama's bulls**t walks.

      Labor was the first price paid for all things. It was not by money, but by labour, that all wealth of the world was originally purchased. - Adam Smith

      by boatwright on Thu Feb 20, 2014 at 03:26:41 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Anything that encourages the further extraction (13+ / 0-)

      of fossil fuel needs to be fought against.  If it is built it will be used.  They wouldn't want it unless it made the extraction and transport to market easier.  Be part of the solution and let your voice heard.

      We Drew the Line before. Let's Drop a Line Now!

      Let's send a clarion call! No KXL

      A 30-day public comment period began on February 5, 2014 and will close on March 7, 2014. During this period, members of the public and other interested parties are encouraged to submit comments on the national interest determination to  http://www.regulations.gov/... . Comments are not private and will be made public.

      Comments may also be mailed directly to:

          U.S. Department of State
          Bureau of Energy Resources, Room 4843
          Attn: Keystone XL Public Comments
          2201 C Street, NW
          Washington, DC 20520

      If we really want to straighten out all this crap we really need to think about shit - Holy Shit.

      by John Crapper on Thu Feb 20, 2014 at 03:31:03 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Too bad you couldn't be more wrong (0+ / 0-)

        We have environmental protection laws and highly regulate refineries.

        If we refuse to build the K-XL, the raw tar sands will go to China and they will have no problem in refining them in the dirtiest manner.  And that is AFTER Canada has used fossil fuels to ship that crap across an ocean over there.

        Try to think things through next time.

        •  so we need to build this pipeline cuz it's going (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          John Crapper

          anyway?
          I appreciate your concern for China not refining the dirtiest fossil fuel in the cleanest way before they burn it (but let's make sure they can get it to burn) and you should note that this pipeline does not go beyond the shores so there will be fossil fuels used to transport it to China, pipeline or no pipeline.

          without the ants the rainforest dies

          by aliasalias on Thu Feb 20, 2014 at 07:39:33 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Please connect the dots. eom (0+ / 0-)

          If we really want to straighten out all this crap we really need to think about shit - Holy Shit.

          by John Crapper on Thu Feb 20, 2014 at 09:32:45 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  Actually, if we are going to survive ... (7+ / 0-)

      ... as a national industrial economy, we are going to have to establish policies under which all resources as carbon-intensive as the Canadian oil sands is not used.

      So what the Keystone XL does is increase the cost of squelching that production by the incremental transport cost by train & truck, which is between $6-$20/barrel.

      That is a massive economic cost, and under even a $1 incremental cost to stop the exploitation of Canadian tar sands, the net economic benefit is a negative number ... which means the approval should not be granted.

      Support Lesbian Creative Works with Yuri anime and manga from ALC Publishing

      by BruceMcF on Thu Feb 20, 2014 at 04:03:22 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Trains and trucks are far more expensive for them. (7+ / 0-)

      It further reduces their energy return on investment, and profitability, and thus makes it less likely the oil will be extracted. It's a simplistic assumption to say that it will be transported no matter what. More friction equals less likelihood tar sands oil will be able to compete with alternative fossil fuels -- or alternative renewable energy.

      "Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob." -- Franklin D. Roosevelt

      by Kombema on Thu Feb 20, 2014 at 04:09:58 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  You said: (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Kombema
        It's a simplistic assumption to say that it will be transported no matter what.
        Not only is that true, it is also true that the KXL pipeline is a market expansion opportunity for the Canadian tar sands industry.   The KXL pipeline is a USA import pipeline designed to make the United States more dependent on tar sands crude sources than it already is....notably for the gulf area.

        Because KXL expedites and enables an 830,000 barrel per day market expansion for tar sands crude, this will lead to more demand for tar sands production and increasing prices for refined petroleum products because expansion of the market will make the crude more valuable.

        The fundamental decision is should the USA make itself more dependent on a foreign source of oil, especially with crude oil production booming in the United States.

    •  We will get zero benefit from the pipeline or (4+ / 0-)

      the oil, only the risks, hazards and pollution.

      That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

      by enhydra lutris on Thu Feb 20, 2014 at 04:32:36 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  It's a multi-pronged fight. It's being fought (0+ / 0-)

      on several fronts.

      And I have no doubt that on each front, there is someone like you telling those fighting it that it's useless to fight.

      Would respect those like you more, if you were honest enough to come out and say that you were in favor of the Tar Sands, instead of the "it's useless" games.

      Il est dangereux d’avoir raison dans des choses où des hommes accrédités ont tort. - Voltaire
      Don't trust anyone over 84414 - BentLiberal

      by BentLiberal on Thu Feb 20, 2014 at 11:07:59 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  But that oil won't be piped through Nebraska... (0+ / 0-)

      Nebraska isn't just rolling over and saying whatever you all want is fine with us. If we don't fight the encroachments, Big Oil will think they can have everything they want all of the time. Sure this Keystone fight won't stop tar sands from being extracted, but this fight has made the whole tar sands effort a pain in the neck. There's no point in making continued fossil fuel extraction a walk in the park, right?

      Divestment isn't going to stop investment in fossil fuel companies, but it is going to call attention to the problem that continued fossil fuel usage adds to global warming. All these actions will add up.

    •  The pipe runs through some of the finest land (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Team Leftie

      in America, and through or by some of its most important aquifers.  It's not a case of if the pipe will break, it's a case of when the pipe will break, and when it goes, it will take a lot of very important resources with it, resources I doubt we'll ever get back, because they never, ever really clean up the sites they've destroyed.

      I agree that we should have been pressuring the Canadian govt as you stated, but if they have to resort to trucks and trains, it's a partial win.

    •  What you say is true - - - however - - - (0+ / 0-)

      said pipeline is slated to pass directly over the Ogallala Aquifer, the largest water supply on the continent.  AND the aquifer is disturbingly close to the New Madras fault.  Now THERE'S an accident just waiting to happen.

      So fighting the pipeline [or at least the currently proposed route of the pipeline] does make sense.

      Meanwhile, if the oil is going to be extracted in any case, I'm all in favor of Canada doing the dirty work, itself.  Why is it necessary for the sands to travel across close to 1,000 miles of a neighboring country to be refined?  I've never understood that reasoning and, so far, no one has been able to explain it satisfactorily imo.

      The price of apathy is to be ruled by evil men - - Plato . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . We must be the change we wish to see in the world - - Mohandas Gandhi

      by twocrows1023 on Sun Feb 23, 2014 at 11:05:26 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Why Keystone Gets All the News (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    visionblack

    The Enbridge Flanagan South pipeline is being built from Flanagan, IL to Cushing, OK. Enbridge is currently sending tar sand through their pipelines to Chicago and St Lous area refineries. They have a gas pipeline right of way that the Flanagan South line is following to Cushing. (Cushing, OK is the terminal where Keystone is to connect.) From there the tar sand will go south to the Gulf refineries and ocean ports - where the real money is. Tankers moving refined tar sand oil and associated coke pet (even worse CO) to Asia.

    Google Enbridge + projects to get a scope of what is being built/planned. Not sure why everyone hoots and hollers about Keystone while Enbridge steams along...

    I am a broken record on this topic.

  •  So, I have a question... (8+ / 0-)

    My neighbor just asked me about something. He said he has been developing some very toxic chemicals in his garage. Nothing illegal, but of potential great value. So he said it would be much easier for him to develop these and ship them if he could run a pipe under my lawn . He said he would hire my nephew for a few months to help build it and he could sell a little bit to me since these were chemicals that were expensive and I could use it for some house repairs. But of course I would have to pay what everyone else does. I questioned him very carefully. He said he would be very cautious, but it if leaks, it would destroy the lawn, make my family and the neighbors very sick and maybe even kill us. So, what do you think?

    Mr. President?

    sh

  •  BEST President ever. (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Kombema, Nattiq, akmk, Laconic Lib

    Obama: self-described Republican; backed up by right-wing policies

    by The Dead Man on Thu Feb 20, 2014 at 03:45:15 PM PST

  •  Oh this is wicked good!!!! (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Kombema, akmk

    We have it within our power to make the world over again ~ Thomas Paine

    by occupystephanie on Thu Feb 20, 2014 at 03:53:12 PM PST

  •  Obama and Harper (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    xndem

    ...POTUS does not give any ground in discussion
    with Harper:

    http://www.businessweek.com/...

  •  Dorgan: Let's Be Accomplices (3+ / 0-)

    Dorgan on the Ed Show this afternoon said we should build the pipeline because Canada is going to extract the oil regardless of what we do.

    So why not build it?

    I consider extracting and burning this oil a crime against humanity. Dorgan's rationale is kinda like someone telling you they're going to commit a crime regardless of whether you agree to help. Your response is naturally going to be:

    Well -- since you put it that way -- OK, I'll go along. NOT.

    Just because Canada extracts this oil does not mean we have to be accomplices. The best place for this sludge is right where it is.

    •  Forgot to Mention I Was "Push Polled" on Keystone (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      gooderservice, aliasalias, enufenuf

      Or whatever you call it when you're asked embarrassingly leading questions.  

      1. Question: Are you concerned about gasoline still being about $3.30 a gallon?
      My response: No

      2. Question: Are you alarmed that the Iranian navy is sending ships to  America's shores and threatening to shut down the straits of Hormuz?
      My response: No.  [Look -- If the Iranians want to use their ships for target practice, I'm sure the US Navy would be happy to oblige.]

      3. Question: Keystone will create thousands of American job and reduce our dependency on foreign oil. Can we use your name in support of building the pipeline?
      My response: No

      Then they asked some demographic questions, like my gender age, and whether I had a brain larger than a peanut.

  •  By all means, stop the pipeline... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ladasue, xndem

    but if you think that is going to stop the tar from flowing out of Canada, then you all are being naive. They'll route it some where else.

    I suppose Obama will be blamed for that too?  Why aren't efforts be focused on stopping this AT ITS SOURCE!? In Canada? I mean, if you really fucking cared about climate change, rather than trying to gain a victory over Obama.

    "Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities" Voltaire.

    by JWK on Thu Feb 20, 2014 at 04:51:30 PM PST

    •  it's more important than any politician that we (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ChuckChuckerson, enufenuf

      fight the further development of the Tar Sands on every front and there are plenty of organizations (Idle No More is just one) that are fighting the source of the problem.
      In fact Neil Young's recent tour thru Canada gave all funds from the concerts toward the legal fight against this threat to humanity.We have the fight in our court with this pipeline and that's what we need to do, fight against it.

      without the ants the rainforest dies

      by aliasalias on Thu Feb 20, 2014 at 07:53:00 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  It is being fought there as well (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ChuckChuckerson

      It's a mufti-pronged fight.

      And no doubt there are people like you in every aspect of this fight, telling people it's useless to fight.

      Il est dangereux d’avoir raison dans des choses où des hommes accrédités ont tort. - Voltaire
      Don't trust anyone over 84414 - BentLiberal

      by BentLiberal on Thu Feb 20, 2014 at 11:02:12 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  While the Ukraine and Venezuela burns, (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    xndem

    dKos concentrates on Keystone..  oh yeah!

  •  It really pains me that I absolutely must rec this (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    John Crapper

    We've had our ups and downs with this president, but absolutely nothing crushes me more than his lack of urgency on climate change.

    Lead your life - don't let your life lead you.

    by lineatus on Thu Feb 20, 2014 at 08:10:43 PM PST

  •  Minimum wage = Boehner suicide (0+ / 0-)

    Mr Speaker, your jobs and duties are representing the American people and we do change our minds based on our new realities, like 25 million living in poverty conditions. It's time for you to change your mind and not commit suicide, put the minimum wage up for a vote and vote Yes.

  •  I wonder if you understand (0+ / 0-)

    that the jobs will be here for about a year, most will be Canadians and most will go home when the job is done. Question I have who in magement will stay, and pump operaors also be Canadian?  Yep.

  •  It's useless to the US as well. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Team Leftie

    Not many people comment that the pipeline will actually do little for the US economy.  It's being built from Canada directly to Port Arthur TX, where the crude will be shipped overseas.  Very little, if any, of the product will find its way into our homes and autos.  Maybe it'll create a few temporary jobs, then what?  So, while there's some risk in building it (There always is some environmental risk, however slight, in any project like this. ), the benefits are near-zero.  It's simply a risk-benefit issue; should be a no-brainer.

    BTW, did you know that the US is now an oil exporting nation?  There need be no oil shortage.  That's because prices for crude oil in the US are extremely low compared to the rest of the world.  Since the resulting profits from domestic sales are so low, the energy companies prefer exporting it.  That includes Canada's tar-sands production.  

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