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Earlier this evening, I published a post here on the latest NSA-Snowden document leak concerning British and U.S. government infiltration of social media, and the related revelations published by The / / Intercept, titled: "How Covert Agents Infiltrate the Internet to Manipulate, Deceive, and Destroy Reputations." The link to my post is HERE. (Kossack Richard Lyons also published a piece on the story, and that's linked HERE.) At the time of publication, the ability to republish the NSA's original slideshow document wasn't available for posting on other blogs, but it is now. So, I'm republishing it (I believe this is the first time it's appeared at Daily Kos), below.

But, first I wanted to state that it's already a well-proven fact (based upon original U.S. government documents) that the Department of Homeland Security and the FBI have regularly-monitored Daily Kos in the past few years for intelligence purposes, and you may read about that in my post from April 4th, 2013, which is linked here: "2011 Gov’t Report Confirmation: DHS, Banks Gathered Key Intel On OWS From Daily Kos, Other Sites."

Furthermore, while I understand that it's difficult for some in this country (and certainly within this blogging community) to acknowledge these latest, taxpayer-funded, Orwellian travesties for the inconvenient truths that they are, I wanted to point out the facts that:

1.) This latest story originated over at Great Britain's version of America's National Security Agency (NSA), known as Government Communications Headquarters (a/k/a "GCHQ"), but that shouldn't belie the greater reality that somewhere in the neighborhood of 2,000 NSA employees work there, across the pond.

2.) Virtually all of GCHQ, including the 2,000+/- NSA employees that work at that agency's offices in Great Britain, maintains direct access to virtually all NSA databases, including "PRISM," "Boundless Informant," and everything in-between.

3.) For at least a decade, it's been a widely-know fact in the intelligence community that all five nations participating in the Five Eyes program do each others' "dirty work." But, don't take my word for it, here's a column from Great Britain's Independent, from 2004 (and per my post here on December 27, 2013), to explain this...

How Britain and the US Keep Watch on the World
By Phillip Knightley
Independent (via Global Policy Forum)
February 27, 2004

From the National Security Agency’s imposing headquarters at Fort Meade, Maryland, ringed by a double-chain fence topped by barbed wire with strands of electrified wire between them, America “bugs” the world. Nothing politically or militarily significant, whether mentioned in a telephone call, in a conversation in the office of the secretary general of the United Nations, Kofi Annan, or in a company fax or e-mail, escapes its attention.

Its computers – measured in acres occupied by them rather than simple figures – “vacuum the entire electromagnetic spectrum”, homing in on “key words” which may suggest something of interest to NSA customers is being conveyed. The NSA costs at least $3.5bn (£1.9bn) a year to run. It employs at least 20,000 officers (not counting the 100,000 servicemen and civilians around the world over whom it has control). Its shredders process 40 tons of paper a day.

Its junior partner is Britain’s Government Communications Headquarters (GCHQ) at Cheltenham, Gloucestershire, the eavesdropping organisation for which Katharine Gun worked. Like NSA, GCHQ is a highly secret operation. Until 1983, when one of its officers, Geoffrey Prime, was charged with spying for the Russians, the Government had refused to reveal what GCHQ’s real role was, no doubt because its operations in peacetime were without a legal basis. Its security is maintained by massive and deliberately intimidating security. Newspapers have been discouraged from mentioning it; a book by a former GCHQ officer, Jock Kane, was seized by Special Branch police officers and a still photograph of its headquarters was banned by the Independent Broadcasting Authority, leaving a blank screen during a World in Action programme. As with NSA, the size of GCHQ’s staff at Cheltenham, about 6,500, gives no real indication of its strength. It has monitoring stations in Cyprus, West Germany, and Australia and smaller ones elsewhere. Much of its overseas work is done by service personnel. Its budget is thought to be more than £300m a year. A large part of this is funded by the United States in return for the right to run NSA listening stations in Britain – Chicksands, Bedfordshire; Edzell, Scotland; Mentworth Hill, Harrogate; Brawdy, Wales – and on British territory around the world.

The collaboration between the two agencies offers many advantages to both. Not only does it make monitoring the globe easier, it solves tricky legal problems and is the basis of the Prime Minister’s statement yesterday that all Britain’s bugging is lawful. The two agencies simply swap each other’s dirty work. GCHQ eavesdrops on calls made by American citizens and the NSA monitors calls made by British citizens, thus allowing each government plausibly to deny it has tapped its own citizens’ calls, as they do. The NSA station at Menwith Hill intercepts all international telephone calls made from Britain and GCHQ has a list of American citizens whose phone conversations interest the NSA…

(Bold type is diarist's emphasis.)

4.) Last, but definitely not least, I'd like to point out that there are somewhere in the neighborhood of many hundreds of thousands of communications, social media and public relations firms and individual consultants that will gladly "manage" your brand or personal reputation and/or promote it. Or, on the other hand, these same firms will trash competing brands or individuals (to accomplish same); and, in so doing, many of them will gladly infiltrate social media platforms throughout the world for a price. You may find many of these hundreds of thousands (if you do a Google search, you'll receive more than 43 million returns on the search) of services firms and individuals by clicking RIGHT HERE.

So, for someone to incorrectly posit that our own government, resplendent with a military-industrial-surveillance complex that we already know is spending somewhere in the neighborhood of $4.7 billion per year of taxpayer funds to trumpet their propaganda to the public (and frequently engages in doing so in a covert manner), is not doing what everyone else is doing is, simply, foolhardy, or in deep denial.

With all of the above being stated, here's the original NSA slideshow document upon which this evening's latest NSA story's based. And, like every other document that has come from the NSA-Snowden document disclosure saga, to date, it is widely understood that these slides/Powerpoint screens are, indeed, the real deal...

http://www.scribd.com/...

  The Art of Deception


#            #            #

UPDATE 2/25/14, 4:00AM EST:

Adding insult to injury, I just read a comment from Kossack roseeriter in Ray Pensador’s latest post which informs us that, in 2007, the U.S. Army was spying on “leftist protestors,” right here in the U.S. of A. This breaking news and original source report is available at Raw Story:  “New documents prove U.S. Army actively targeted leftist protesters, group says,” by Scott Kaufman.

Can you say Posse Comitatus Act? Sure you can!


#            #            #
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Comment Preferences

  •  Thanks, Bob. (37+ / 0-)

    I really appreciate your efforts in bringing the facts to the attention of this community.

    The reaction to this story in the related diaries of the last day or so has been "interesting," to say the least.

    But, sadly, not surprising.

    It's amazing how some people manage to take stories like this and transform them into "personal affronts" to DailyKos, some even going so far as to predict "witch hunts" as a result.

    Just like the witch hunts that were supposedly forthcoming last time a diary related to this activity was posted.

    And yet here we are, few, if any, of us having fallen victim to the these "McCarthy-like inquisitions" that never came to pass.

    I'm confident we'll survive again this time, too.

    :)




    Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us. ~ Garcia

    by DeadHead on Mon Feb 24, 2014 at 11:52:06 PM PST

  •  I'm high and thinking about masturbating... (4+ / 6-)

    And none of us are important enough to be infiltrated.

    I sing praises in the church of nonsense, but in my heart I'm still an atheist, demanding sense of all things.

    by jbou on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 12:15:05 AM PST

    •  I hope it's as good for you as it is for us n/t (23+ / 0-)

      "I always thought if you worked hard enough and tried hard enough, things would work out. I was wrong." --Katharine Graham

      by bobswern on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 12:18:53 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  the nsa is listening but they can't hear me (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        bobswern, rduran, Sharkmeister

        I sing praises in the church of nonsense, but in my heart I'm still an atheist, demanding sense of all things.

        by jbou on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 12:21:30 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  You crapped all over this diary with this idiocy? (17+ / 0-)

          At least you could have said something clever.

          If debugging is the process of removing bugs, then programming must be the process of putting them in.

          by kharma on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 03:56:00 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  don't worry about it, jbou---the dog pack is (3+ / 1-)
            Recommended by:
            lordcopper, rduran, Sharkmeister
            Hidden by:
            lunachickie

            just a little touchy today.

            (snicker)

            In the end, reality always wins.

            by Lenny Flank on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 04:55:26 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Yeah. A Stasi-style security state (13+ / 0-)

              always gets me up on the wrong side of the bed.

              I tried to go online to find a similar bear head...but when I searched “Big Bear Head” it gave me a San Diego craigslist ad entitled “Big Bear needs some quick head now” and then I just decided to never go on the internet again.--Jenny Lawson

              by SouthernLiberalinMD on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 05:25:42 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  I don't like it either--and unlike most of the (4+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                lordcopper, rduran, Sharkmeister, duhban

                folks here, I was actually targeted by it. I had my mail intercepted.  I had my employers interviewed.  I was interviewed, twice. I have an FBI file. I've seen that Stasi firsthand.

                So I get a little cranky when CT fans make silly assertions about the Feds coming to get them, without any evidence whatsoever.

                In the end, reality always wins.

                by Lenny Flank on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 05:29:30 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Umm, help me out here (10+ / 0-)

                  Didn't you just prove by your comment, that the Feds DO come out to get you?

                  •  I'll repeat once more for the hard of hearing (7+ / 0-)

                    Yes, the government spies on us. As many of us as it can. Has done so since the Alien and Sedition Act of 1798.

                    BUT

                    that does not mean that it "infiltrates" or "disrupts" everything. They only target things that are worth targeting, and we're not. We're just an Internet debating society that does nothing in the real world except raise money for mainstream center-right political candidates. We're no threat, and they have no reason to treat us as a threat.

                    Those who want to get all paranoid and CT-y about the Feds disrupting their diary oh noez !!!, need to demonstrate that any such thing is actually happening before they run off at the mouth about it and especially before they start pointing fingers at people (however indirectly). There is zero evidence, none, not a shred, that anyone at DKos has been effected in any noticeable way by any paid or unpaid agent of any corporation or government agency. Zip. Zero. Zilch.

                    And anyone who declares otherwise had better have some hard info to back it up.

                    And they have none. (shrug)

                    In the end, reality always wins.

                    by Lenny Flank on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 06:49:39 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  LOL! (8+ / 0-)

                      Oh, you're all over this like a bad suit, Lenny. Surprise, surprise.

                      Get this old, tired meme machine outta here. I can't speak for anyone else, but dude, you are Nobody to me now, you'll be Nobody to me tomorrow and near as I can tell, you've never been anymore a Somebody than I have.  So your word carries Zero Weight, understand? There IS Something to See Here, and the rest of us are going to keep looking, no matter how much little old Nobody You ridicules us for doing so.

                      This all started with "what the Republicans did to language".

                      by lunachickie on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 06:56:39 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  if you say so (shrug) /nt (4+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        lordcopper, Sharkmeister, AnnetteK, duhban

                        In the end, reality always wins.

                        by Lenny Flank on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 06:58:15 AM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  Enjoy your pastry, obvious troll n/t (4+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          stevemb, kharma, Sharkmeister, cybrestrike

                          This all started with "what the Republicans did to language".

                          by lunachickie on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 07:00:23 AM PST

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  Flank is not an obvious troll. There are many who (6+ / 0-)

                            share his view of the matter quite honestly.  I believe him to be wrong based on all of evidence available.  Possibly Flank under estimates the fragility of our present economy and the weak state of the social ties that underlie stability.  I do not know, but as we found out after the Nixon resignation, the anti war folk did not dream of how afraid of them the government was.  The anti war movement felt despair, and felt marginalized by the ferocious opposition by union members, and most nodes of media and social interaction.  Yet, the government agencies and the White House as very afraid of the movement.

                            Patriotism may be the last refuge of scoundrels, but religion is assuredly the first.

                            by StrayCat on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 08:12:25 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Not true here (3+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Sharkmeister, StrayCat, cybrestrike

                            He's been all over damn near every thread in this discussion, repeating variations of the same theme.

                            That is trolling and/or threadjacking. It is. That is a fact.

                            This much, I think we are definitely in agreement on, though:

                            government agencies and the White House are very afraid of the movement.
                            That the threadjack troll was so blatant and in-your-face today, not giving a shit about site rules, that demonstrates "fear" rather nicely. The irony just sails wide-right, that's how afraid they are. And they should be: there are way more of the likes of us, overall, than there will ever be the likes of a "Lenny Flank". And they know it.

                            This all started with "what the Republicans did to language".

                            by lunachickie on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 08:39:59 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Well, it's about an hour or so later than when I (3+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Garrett, cybrestrike, Joieau

                            posted this comment, and I have to agree with you.  I seem to have given Lenny Flank more credit than he deserves.  Yup, he's trolling here, and very effectively, too.

                            Patriotism may be the last refuge of scoundrels, but religion is assuredly the first.

                            by StrayCat on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 09:45:37 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  He just blew the social capital he's earned (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Joieau

                            with what seemed like well-reasoned comments in other diaries.

                            I tried to go online to find a similar bear head...but when I searched “Big Bear Head” it gave me a San Diego craigslist ad entitled “Big Bear needs some quick head now” and then I just decided to never go on the internet again.--Jenny Lawson

                            by SouthernLiberalinMD on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 12:24:01 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  That's what I thought too. (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Joieau

                            Before this diary.
                            Otherwise I would have never wasted my time in argument with him.

                            Good job, Lenny. You managed to waste a lot of my time.

                            I tried to go online to find a similar bear head...but when I searched “Big Bear Head” it gave me a San Diego craigslist ad entitled “Big Bear needs some quick head now” and then I just decided to never go on the internet again.--Jenny Lawson

                            by SouthernLiberalinMD on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 12:22:35 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  way out of line (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Sharon Wraight

                            where do you get off calling someone who has been here 7 years, a troll?

                            KOS: "Mocking partisans focusing on elections? Even less reason to be on Daily Kos."

                            by fcvaguy on Wed Feb 26, 2014 at 04:56:57 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                    •  I'll tell you folks this man's a spy (3+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      rduran, duhban, Joieau

                      He's an undercover agent for the FBI
                      and he's been sent here to infiltrate uhm uh kos

                      he's a mastermind in the ways of espionage and he's even got a dixie flag tacked up on the wall in his garage

                      It MUST be true I heard it in a song once.  The important thing is that we all turn on each other with suspicion and hostility.  

                      Also we need to chase a small crowd of rednecks at least once around a parking lot whilst smoking a colorado cigarette!  It worked out well in the song...

                      the Clear Light is the consciousness of the quantum vacuum

                      by Sharkmeister on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 07:39:51 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                    •  Well, as one who has also been investigated, (7+ / 0-)

                      and  has files in certain government places, I can say that Kos is seen as important to a segment of the intelligence community, and the disruption of conversations about what is wrong and how to address the wrongs has always been of real interest to those manning the security state.  Whether it is Quakers, environmentalists, quilters or churches, any person or group who is not on their bus is monitored, and places like DK, which has become a center for rational and substantial examination and criticism of the status quo is followed closely.  Disruption of the kind outlined in this diary is a daily occurrence here and on many sites.  In the old days, the FBI and state intelligence cops went to meetings, took photos, put together dossiers on paper.  Today, the same collection goes on on the net.  And in the sixties, some of this information was shared with potential employers, and some of this information was false, or overstated.  The same is happening today.  We are all paranoid if we see behind the draperies.  And, of course, even trying to look behind the draperies is treason.

                      Patriotism may be the last refuge of scoundrels, but religion is assuredly the first.

                      by StrayCat on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 08:05:06 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  if this is true... (2+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        rduran, Sharkmeister

                        The nsa owes me money. If the nsa is watching just send my money to my bank account you have the information.

                        I sing praises in the church of nonsense, but in my heart I'm still an atheist, demanding sense of all things.

                        by jbou on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 09:02:55 AM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                      •  So you've been arrested (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        Sharkmeister

                        So were some of these guys.  

                        •  No, I have never been arrested. Nor have I been (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          SouthernLiberalinMD

                          accused of crimes.  The data In the files was made from perfectly legal anti war and civil rights activity.  Not a very good try on your part to insinuate that I am either a criminal or a drunkard.

                          Patriotism may be the last refuge of scoundrels, but religion is assuredly the first.

                          by StrayCat on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 09:43:30 AM PST

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  So you gave a statement (0+ / 0-)

                            So did this couple.

                          •  You are being a .... (0+ / 0-)

                            ..dick.  Don't be a dick.

                            We Glory in war, in the shedding of human blood. What fools we are.

                            by delver rootnose on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 10:01:28 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  I'm sorry if you have a problem (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            StrayCat

                            with someone pointing out that StrayCat's experience with police record keeping is exactly the sort of everyday crap millions of Americans go through every year.  The point is that there was an arrest or a statement, and it got processed.  Of course that's in the system; that's the way it's been since before almost any of us were born.

                          •  No, my experience is not like the way it 's been (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Joieau

                            since before we were born.  These records, photos, etc, were not the result do investigation of any crime, nor for the purposes legitimately connected with the criminal justice system.  These were covert photos, notes taken by people posing as anti war activists, and statements by people who were asked leading questions in a manner raising suspicion.  These were transferred from Massachusetts to the Midwest, and material gathered in the Midwest was transferred to the east coast.  I am very aware of what proper and regular police records and reports include.  Not the same thing at all.

                            Patriotism may be the last refuge of scoundrels, but religion is assuredly the first.

                            by StrayCat on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 10:39:49 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  I'm pretty sure undercover policing is not new (0+ / 0-)

                            And I'm also pretty sure contact reports aren't novel.

                          •  And for the record, I'm not insinuating (0+ / 0-)

                            that you're a drunkard or a criminal.  I'm insinuating that your record is probably pretty mundane.

                          •  In the absence of having been suspected of a crime (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            SouthernLiberalinMD, Joieau

                            or having committed one, why should I have a record at all?

                            Patriotism may be the last refuge of scoundrels, but religion is assuredly the first.

                            by StrayCat on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 10:41:16 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Second reply. People should not have to worry (0+ / 0-)

                            that they are monitored for much of,their day.  Our government has no right to collect photo of our license plates as we go about our lives.  Location devices used to track out movements are anathema to a free society.  We do not give up our right to privacy when we walk out the front door.  Our right to privacy is not dependent on some judge's idiosyncratic, subjective notion of what is reasonable. Why do so may here think that just monitoring, or just collecting data is OK?

                            Patriotism may be the last refuge of scoundrels, but religion is assuredly the first.

                            by StrayCat on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 10:58:04 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Don't necessarily disagree (0+ / 0-)

                            There's a lot of opportunity for abuse, but that abuse will not likely target any of us in our lifetimes.  We should oppose monitoring on behalf of those who actually have a sufficiently high profile to be vulnerable.

                          •  But, DKos is monitored on a daily basis. (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Joieau

                            Patriotism may be the last refuge of scoundrels, but religion is assuredly the first.

                            by StrayCat on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 11:25:56 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  How do we determine who is high enough (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Joieau

                            profile to need protection from monitoring.  What about equal protection of the laws?  Will we have another government directorship who determines who gets the pass?  Or will it be based on race, country of origin?  Or maybe only those registered in centrist political parties.  Or, what we have now, where the CIA can operate subsidiary corporations and import drugs and guns without oversight.
                              At root, there must be one body of criminal law that applies equally to everyone, or the is no law, but the reign of the Borgias.

                            Patriotism may be the last refuge of scoundrels, but religion is assuredly the first.

                            by StrayCat on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 11:34:57 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                      •  Could you please provide links or more details, (0+ / 0-)

                        about this:

                        Kos is seen as important to a segment of the intelligence community...
                        places like DK, which has become a center for rational and substantial examination and criticism of the status quo is followed closely. Disruption of the kind outlined in this diary is a daily occurrence here and on many sites....
                        some of this information was shared with potential employers, and some of this information was false, or overstated.  The same is happening today.
                        Tks.
                •  I remember when the first NSA whistleblowers... (23+ / 0-)

                  Came forward and they were called conspiracy nuts because they did not have extraordinary proof to go along with their extraordinary allegations.  They were pooh-paahed and we were told they were tin-foil hat wearing extremists.  

                  Then, when Edward Snowden came out with evidence, he was a criminal, a thief because he stole secret documents and therefor he couldn't be believed and he was enemy number one because he put people in danger but it didn't really matter because what he was putting out there was old news and it didn't really matter because it wasn't true and...

                  There is always a reason to excuse bad behavior by our government and somebody, somewhere has always had it worse and...

                  "Perhaps the sentiments contained in the following pages, are not YET sufficiently fashionable to procure them general favour..."

                  by Buckeye Nut Schell on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 07:16:13 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                •  They're coming to get all of us. Quite obviously. (5+ / 0-)

                  That's what TIA means.

                  It is stupid, and a waste of money, company time, and skills on the part of the security state. It was put together by allies of the George W. Bush administration, what do you expect. The same studio who brought you PNAC: The Armageddon  is pleased to present Stasi II: Electric Boogaloo.

                  You may not believe it, given that I'm fighting with you in this thread, but I'm sorry for what you went through.

                  I tried to go online to find a similar bear head...but when I searched “Big Bear Head” it gave me a San Diego craigslist ad entitled “Big Bear needs some quick head now” and then I just decided to never go on the internet again.--Jenny Lawson

                  by SouthernLiberalinMD on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 07:17:30 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  it's nice of you to be sorry, but there is no need (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Sharkmeister

                    --I knew what I was getting into and went in with eyes wide open. (shrug)

                    And we are not actually disagreeing about anything.  Oddly enough, I don't really disagree with Ray or Bob or Dead Head or any of the others either. Their hearts are all in the right places.

                    They just let their revolution-porn fantasies run away with their brains from time to time.  ;)

                    In the end, reality always wins.

                    by Lenny Flank on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 07:33:05 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  This ain't porn. (0+ / 0-)

                      This ain't no party, this ain't no disco.

                      Damn, I wish they'd get back together.

                      I tried to go online to find a similar bear head...but when I searched “Big Bear Head” it gave me a San Diego craigslist ad entitled “Big Bear needs some quick head now” and then I just decided to never go on the internet again.--Jenny Lawson

                      by SouthernLiberalinMD on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 11:24:42 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                  •  What's the hold up? (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Sharkmeister

                    Are they gathering their strength while waiting for the opportune time to strike?

                    •  Hold up? (0+ / 0-)

                      They're doing it.

                      There's this guy called Ed Snowden, and he took some data and released it to the press. You should check into it.

                      I tried to go online to find a similar bear head...but when I searched “Big Bear Head” it gave me a San Diego craigslist ad entitled “Big Bear needs some quick head now” and then I just decided to never go on the internet again.--Jenny Lawson

                      by SouthernLiberalinMD on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 02:03:22 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                •  Where is the proof you were targeted? (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  kharma, Sharkmeister

                  Post some pics of your FBI file. Pics or it didn't happen.

                  •  Stop it. You would be amazed by the breadth of th (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Sharkmeister

                    The investigations, files, photos, dossiers that were collected in the sixties and seventies.  Sign an anti war petition, and a file was opened on you.  Join SANE, and you end up on a list.  The attorney general has lists of supposed subversives, and subversive organizations.  On those lists were organizations like the Peace Information Center, the Lawyers Guild, Environmental Response, the Society of Friends, people in the Earth Day movement, and so many others.  Infiltration, the creation of suspicion among members, the illegal tapping of telephones, and propaganda operations were commonplace.  There was real and reality based fear that one's politics could negatively affect your livelihood and social situation.  The same thing occurs today in different settings, and with new tools.  As Ari Fleischer (?) said as Bushes press secretary, be careful what you say.  Be afraid, be very afraid.

                    Patriotism may be the last refuge of scoundrels, but religion is assuredly the first.

                    by StrayCat on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 08:23:59 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                  •  He said he knew what he was getting into and went (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    SouthernLiberalinMD

                    in with eyes wide open.  Sounds like he's talking about getting a security clearance.  He keeps saying he works for this or that government agency, so it makes sense he's had one.  

                    Well, having a voluntary security clearance check is one thing, being spied on is another.

                    Information is the currency of democracy. ~Thomas Jefferson

                    by CIndyCasella on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 09:54:55 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                •  Whoa. They actually told you (3+ / 0-)

                  you've got a file? Man, you must really rate! Did they let you see it?

                  I filed an FOIA for mine back in the '90s, after being threatened with a federal subpoena to testify about things I had been led to believe (after testifying to Congress/NRC a decade earlier) had been classified. It would have hopelessly complicated an entirely separate lawsuit we were then pursuing, so I wanted to know.

                  Went back and forth for months. Result: There Is No File, There Has Never Been a File, Stop Asking If There Is a File. There Was No Nationwide APB, Your Friends And Families Were Never Questioned, Your Murdered Brother Never Existed. None Of It Ever Happened. Bye.

                  So nice to find one is indeed truly 'invisible'... §;o)

                  There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves. - Will Rogers

                  by Joieau on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 08:09:08 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  I actually filed several separate FOIA requests (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Sharkmeister

                    more or less in the late 80's, 90's and in 2012.

                    The first two times were after the FBI had interviewed me, and I knew there would be reports for that (the 1988 interview was when I was in the Central America and apartheid movement and had been in Nicaragua, and the 90's was about some Irish and Palestinian friends of mine). Those two filings got me 20-odd pages, dating back to the early 80's when I first became active--it covered my time with RCP, SWP, IWW, CISPES, Greenpeace, and the sanctuary movement.The filing in 2012 wasn't specifically for me, but for anything related to Occupy Tampa and Occupy St Pete. I turned up incidentally. This was shortly after some of Occupy's files had already been leaked, so I knew they had files and figured they probably had more.

                    Filing FOIA requests in the 80's wasn't too hard.  it got progressively more hoop-jumpy later.

                    A tip I picked up from others---when you ask for your files, don't just as at the central repository in DC--ask for the regional office in any major city that you've spent time in. Turns out I had a couple pages in Seattle after a short stint with the Central American Peace Campaign there.

                    And you can expect big chunks to be blacked out.

                    In the end, reality always wins.

                    by Lenny Flank on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 08:36:15 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Oh, I was very specific, expanded over time. (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      Sharkmeister

                      And I would have expected totally black pages. But I was informed there were no pages at all. Which is complete bullshit, of course.

                      It did tell me we could ignore the subpoena, and there was nothing they could do to interfere in the other lawsuit. And that's all I really needed to know.

                      There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves. - Will Rogers

                      by Joieau on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 08:42:20 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                    •  By the way, File Guy, (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      Sharkmeister

                      what - exactly - did the FBI/other feds actually "DO" to you other than talk to you and people you know, keep a file that was not even classified enough to keep you from seeing it? Since the "do to" charge is one of your main hijack angles in these diaries, after all.

                      Were you arrested? Were you prosecuted? Spend time in prison? Or were your activities essentially legal, so all they could do was watch and make notes in the file you're so proud of as evidence of your activist bona fides, while disrupting and hijacking diaries to the subject of government watchers being real and doing their jobs?

                      Writing stuff on a blog isn't illegal (yet, anyway). The knowledge that they're keeping track - and no doubt using up some bytes in their mega-byte warehouses to copy-paste - in no way means that what is being written is in any way illegal, or that writers will be arrested and prosecuted for writing what they've written.

                      Much as you suggest otherwise, of course. Makes you obvious.

                      There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves. - Will Rogers

                      by Joieau on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 08:54:24 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  I've been arrested around a dozen times (2+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        duhban, Sharkmeister

                        at rallies and demonstrations--DC, New York, and Philly. Working with Greenpeace, especially, getting arrested is kinda part of the job description.

                        When you get arrested at a rally, they usually charged you with something stupid like blocking the sidewalk or disorderly conduct. Unless you do something dumb like take a poke at a cop, they keep you in the holding cell until the rally is over, then either just toss you out, or write a citation and summons for later. Most of the time, I didn't carry any ID with me if I knew I was gonna be arrested, and they didn't want to deal with the paperwork of figuring out who I was, so they wrote me a John Doe citation and threw me out. (Today, I wouldn't be able to do that since they now have facial recognition software and can ID you in minutes from the drivers license database.)

                        Yes, there were also rallies where I was a designated observor or marshall--meaning I was not arrested, but acted as the communications link for those who were--my task then was to keep track of which officer arrested which protester, which jail they were being taken to, all that sort of stuff. That info had to go to the lawyers so we could get people out. I also had to keep track of who was cooperating by giving their ID, and who was not--cooperators usually got out after just a few hours, but the non-cooperators could legally be kept for 48 hours (though they didn't usually keep anyone that long unless they just wanted to be bastards, which they occasionally did.)

                        What did they "do to" me?  Well, I know they were intercepting my mail since, as I noted, I was corresponding with people in the USSR, and they were asking me questions about things that indicated they had read the contents in both directions. I don't know if they were tapping my phone at the same time--I presume they were. They also interviewed several of my employers over time--a couple of which then became my employers; if you wanna see what effect having the FBI interview your boss has, I suggest you try it sometime.  ;)  Our Greenpeace office got broken into--some thought it might have been the Feds, but I just presumed it was an ordinary burglary. CISPES always had some sort of mysterious problem appearing -- with our landlords, with out equipment, with vandalism. We never knew what was the Feds and what wasn't. We were a small office and didn't get focused on as much as the big offices in places like New York and San Fran.

                        Yeah, writing blog diaries isn't illegal.  I didn't say it was.  I have no idea where you got that from. I doubt the FBI gives a rat's ass about anyone's diaries.

                        PS--my file was indeed classified---that's why they blacked out large parts of it. By law, when you file an FOIA, they have to go through the document and excise the portions that are exempt from release (they have a whole list of reasons why particular things can be exempted from disclosure).

                        Regarding your file, it is indeed possible that a file exists, but is exempt from disclosure in its entirety. They have no obligation to tell you that.

                        In the end, reality always wins.

                        by Lenny Flank on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 09:16:15 AM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  Well, DUH. (0+ / 0-)

                          Exactly my point, oh file-full one. Point made.

                          There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves. - Will Rogers

                          by Joieau on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 02:34:50 PM PST

                          [ Parent ]

                    •  Holy cow. You've joined (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      Joieau

                      infiltrated quite a lot of organizations, there, Lenny.  Do you engage with the members of these organizations the way you do here? ;)

                      Information is the currency of democracy. ~Thomas Jefferson

                      by CIndyCasella on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 10:05:15 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

              •  Sex, even by yourself sex, is (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                jbou, Sharkmeister

                an excellent way to stick it to the Stasi.

            •  Dog pack...... (5+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              gerrilea, Jarrayy, DRo, kharma, Sharkmeister

              ....if I were in a touchy mood this comment would be HRed.

              You have crapped all over this diary so if the pack was really touchy I think you would be on timeout by now.

              We Glory in war, in the shedding of human blood. What fools we are.

              by delver rootnose on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 05:28:06 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  I see. and naturally when people call ME names (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                lordcopper, Sharkmeister, duhban

                and make juvenile insults, you and your posse rush to ding them too, right . . . .?

                Ohhhhhhhhhhh.

                Isn't it funny how the "trolls" and the "insults" all happen to come from the people you disagree with, and never from the ones you DO agree with . . . ?

                In the end, reality always wins.

                by Lenny Flank on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 05:43:57 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Well Lenny... (7+ / 0-)

                  ..you would note I haven't HRed anyone.

                  And if you wrote a diary and someone came into it and crapped all over it like you have here and elsewhere I would also note the don't be dick rule to them as well.

                  You are sure spending an awful lot of time and effort to belittle others though.  And ruin others' work.

                  We Glory in war, in the shedding of human blood. What fools we are.

                  by delver rootnose on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 05:51:39 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  that was not my question /nt (3+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    lordcopper, Sharkmeister, duhban
                    You are sure spending an awful lot of time and effort to belittle others though.  And ruin others' work.
                    I'm simply asking people to back up their stories with evidence.

                    It's not my fault that nobody actually has any evidence to give.

                    Is there ANYONE here, ANYONE AT ALL, who has actually been infiltrated or disrupted or shilled or anything else here by any paid or unpaid agent of the government or any corporation in any detectable way? Anyone?

                    No?

                    If there's no evidence at all that they are there and no evidence at all that they are actually doing anything, then why should anyone assume they are there?  And if they ARE there and have  no detectable effect, then what difference does it make if they are here or not--and what good does it do to declare that any person here is an infiltrator?

                    Why not just go on with your work, and stop hunting for ghosts?

                    In the end, reality always wins.

                    by Lenny Flank on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 05:59:51 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Well posting that .... (11+ / 0-)

                      ...question, which is impossible to prove by your standard, would be enough.  Your repeated posting of it over and over amounts to being a dick in someone else's diary.

                      You have successfully made any sort of discussion impossible in this diary.  That is your goal I think.  You don't care if evidence or supported suppositions are out there you just want to make these types of diaries such a mess people will be hesitent to read them.  I don't know your motivations but by your actions your effects are shown.

                      In as much as my continued replies to your comments extend your ability to do this I am ceasing to reply to you.  

                      Have the last word it seems more important to you than it does to me and even flossing my teeth would be a better use of my time.

                      We Glory in war, in the shedding of human blood. What fools we are.

                      by delver rootnose on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 06:16:20 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                  •  Yeah. Funny, that. (0+ / 0-)

                    I tried to go online to find a similar bear head...but when I searched “Big Bear Head” it gave me a San Diego craigslist ad entitled “Big Bear needs some quick head now” and then I just decided to never go on the internet again.--Jenny Lawson

                    by SouthernLiberalinMD on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 12:00:24 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                •  Yo! Give it up for my POSSE! (0+ / 0-)

                  I tried to go online to find a similar bear head...but when I searched “Big Bear Head” it gave me a San Diego craigslist ad entitled “Big Bear needs some quick head now” and then I just decided to never go on the internet again.--Jenny Lawson

                  by SouthernLiberalinMD on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 12:25:45 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  I really need to buy ALL of this guy's records. (0+ / 0-)

                    If such things still exist in the world of MP3s.

                    I tried to go online to find a similar bear head...but when I searched “Big Bear Head” it gave me a San Diego craigslist ad entitled “Big Bear needs some quick head now” and then I just decided to never go on the internet again.--Jenny Lawson

                    by SouthernLiberalinMD on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 12:26:32 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                •  It's the Comitatus Posse! (0+ / 0-)

                  I tried to go online to find a similar bear head...but when I searched “Big Bear Head” it gave me a San Diego craigslist ad entitled “Big Bear needs some quick head now” and then I just decided to never go on the internet again.--Jenny Lawson

                  by SouthernLiberalinMD on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 12:32:19 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

          •  Why? (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            kharma, Sharkmeister, Joieau

            Forget the conversation downthread. One person jacked it everywhere.  But you know what? in this case, it really doesn't matter, because the very words vomited up (calling itself Wit, in this case (snicker!)) as often as possible, all over every thread, rather demonstrates for all of us in real time some of what's been described in this diary subject in the last few days.

            This all started with "what the Republicans did to language".

            by lunachickie on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 07:08:58 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  you're not a special snowflake (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              rduran, Sharkmeister, doroma

              You're the same decaying piece of meat we all are. You're not your fucking khakis.

              It's Enemy of the State vs Fight Club in a philosophical battle for the ages. I hope the nsa enjoys the show.

              I sing praises in the church of nonsense, but in my heart I'm still an atheist, demanding sense of all things.

              by jbou on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 08:58:54 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Special snowflake? (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                jbou

                For fuck's sake, how many times do I have to say it?

                Total Information Awareness

                to·tal
                ˈtōtl/Submit
                adjective
                1.
                comprising the whole number or amount.
                "a total cost of $4,000"
                synonyms:    entire, complete, whole, full, comprehensive, combined, aggregate, gross, overall, final More
                antonyms:    partial
                2.
                complete; absolute.
                "a total stranger"
                synonyms:    complete, utter, absolute, thorough, out-and-out, outright, all-out, sheer, perfect, consummate, arrant, positive, rank, unmitigated, unqualified, unreserved, categorical More
                antonyms:    partial
                noun
                noun: total; plural noun: totals
                1.
                the whole number or amount of something.
                "he scored a total of thirty-three points"
                synonyms:    sum, sum total, grand total, aggregate, result;
                More
                verb
                verb: total; 3rd person present: totals; past tense: totalled; past participle: totalled; gerund or present participle: totalling; past tense: totaled; past participle: totaled; gerund or present participle: totaling
                1.
                amount in number to.

                "they were left with debts totaling $6,260"
                synonyms:    add up to, amount to, come to, run to, make, work out to More
                add up the full number or amount of.
                "the scores were totaled"
                synonyms:    add (up), count, reckon, tot up, tally, compute, work out More
                2.
                informal
                damage (something, typically a vehicle) beyond repair; wreck.

                I tried to go online to find a similar bear head...but when I searched “Big Bear Head” it gave me a San Diego craigslist ad entitled “Big Bear needs some quick head now” and then I just decided to never go on the internet again.--Jenny Lawson

                by SouthernLiberalinMD on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 12:03:38 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

              •  Does that help? (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                jbou

                I tried to go online to find a similar bear head...but when I searched “Big Bear Head” it gave me a San Diego craigslist ad entitled “Big Bear needs some quick head now” and then I just decided to never go on the internet again.--Jenny Lawson

                by SouthernLiberalinMD on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 12:04:13 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

            •  I'll say. Did you read the slide show? These (0+ / 0-)

              are textbook examples of what goes on here.  Particularly the attention one.  We need to come up with our own methods to ignore and diminish the command of attention.

              6 months ago or so, my friend and I went out for a drink, and a man came in and flirted with the female bartender and told us all sorts of wild stories, and I had a bad feeling about him.  He ran up a big tab, and ran out.

              After that, I thought that some of the characters here match that behavior.  They grab your attention with their methods, keep you going, and then poof.  Where were we?  It isn't the drinks, it's our time, they've absconded with.

              Information is the currency of democracy. ~Thomas Jefferson

              by CIndyCasella on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 10:31:29 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

        •  I'd think the ~fap~ fap~ fap (0+ / 0-)

          would be loud enough for all to hear.
          It's certainly clear enough for all to see.


          Information is power. But, like all power, there are those who want to keep it for themselves. Aaron Swartz

          by Lisa Lockwood on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 03:55:15 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  Based on consistency of polls here there are (11+ / 0-)

        at least 300 people on this site that are here for no other purpose than to divide and conquer and that has been consistently true since 2004.

        Because of OWS I did create another persona to post about that experience but having been through the 60s was still very leery.

        My husband was an LA attorney and had been for 40 plus years.  He was a consult on the Larry Flynt Hustler case in the 80s.  Redoing the office and changing paneling, we found bugs in the office which he felt came from that case and he was very hohum about it.  Then we moved to Las Vegas and I was visited by the FBI who brings my husband's file that was about 8 inches thick.  This was in 1988.

        I have always thought this was dangerous and that the obvious problem with JFK was a coup in broad day light.  The fact it was gotten away with is basically why we are where we are now with this problem.

        I also read all the Church reports through IF Stone and there was no doubt in my mind that the CIA targeted and bought much of the media then (1975) and it has only escalated since then.

        •  Be careful (0+ / 0-)

          If we start turning on each other with suspicion and hostility....

          I had a strange thought the other day, possibly overly influenced by Christian philosophy, that the key to a winning team is that team members all have a strong love for each other.  

          When you look at a losing team, so often you see them turning on each other and unable to work together.

          the Clear Light is the consciousness of the quantum vacuum

          by Sharkmeister on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 09:12:35 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Of course, and that's one of the key goals (2+ / 0-)

            of infiltration. So, identify tactics rather than people. When you see the tactics, have a standard and a back-up tactic of your own for dealing with them. Don't worry too much about whether those employing the tactics are infiltrators or just assholes. And when you find people you can trust, stick to them for life.

            Just my .02

            I tried to go online to find a similar bear head...but when I searched “Big Bear Head” it gave me a San Diego craigslist ad entitled “Big Bear needs some quick head now” and then I just decided to never go on the internet again.--Jenny Lawson

            by SouthernLiberalinMD on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 12:07:06 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  So maybe Tebow's "magic" (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              SouthernLiberalinMD

              Didn't depend completely on how well he could throw a football, but on how he could get his team to put aside their differences and work together.

              the Clear Light is the consciousness of the quantum vacuum

              by Sharkmeister on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 12:51:38 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Well, it certainly didn't depend completely (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Sharkmeister

                on how he could throw a football; as I'm recalling, he was a running QB, right? And could muscle his way past the college defenses he faced.

                But yeah, being a good leader is a great quality in a QB. I think Marino suffered a bit from lack of it, though I understand why he was so frustrated!

                I tried to go online to find a similar bear head...but when I searched “Big Bear Head” it gave me a San Diego craigslist ad entitled “Big Bear needs some quick head now” and then I just decided to never go on the internet again.--Jenny Lawson

                by SouthernLiberalinMD on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 01:00:54 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

    •  Except when we are, of course (14+ / 0-)
      But, first I wanted to state that it's already a well-proven fact (based upon original U.S. government documents) that the Department of Homeland Security and the FBI have regularly-monitored Daily Kos in the past few years for intelligence purposes, and you may read about that in my post from April 4th, 2013, which is linked here: "2011 Gov’t Report Confirmation: DHS, Banks Gathered Key Intel On OWS From Daily Kos, Other Sites."




      Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us. ~ Garcia

      by DeadHead on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 12:22:17 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  stop that (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        bobswern, Sharkmeister

        You can't site dailykos as proof dailykos is important enough to be infiltrated.

        I sing praises in the church of nonsense, but in my heart I'm still an atheist, demanding sense of all things.

        by jbou on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 12:26:45 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  You're right. (5+ / 0-)

          It's just a five-word diary:

          DailyKos was infiltrated. So there.
          And I don't see any links to actual DHS documents, amongst those five words.

          And because you're such a n00b, you probably weren't on DailyKos when all that supposedly went down, so it never happened.




          Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us. ~ Garcia

          by DeadHead on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 01:34:26 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  well, to be accurate, the Feds were watching the (6+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          TomP, doroma, Skyye, Wee Mama, Wolf10, Sharkmeister

          Occupy people at DKos, not DKos itself (I know that because I was one of them--one of the reports specifically mentions diaries that I wrote here about Occupy St Pete, Occupy Tampa, and the RNC). The Feds didn't give a flying fuck about people who were writing election diaries or meta diaries or any diaries that weren't about Occupy. If the OWS people had been posting on the Mickey Mouse Club website instead, the Feds would have been monitoring the Mickey Mouse Club website too.

          I suspect that once Occupy disappeared, so did the Fed interest in DKos.

          All we do here now is preach to the converted and write checks once in a while to mainstream candidates.

          In the end, reality always wins.

          by Lenny Flank on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 01:40:05 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Climate change activists and Snowden... (16+ / 0-)

            ...supporters are certainly targets. Look no further than Jesselyn Radack's trials and tribulations for proof of that.

            "I always thought if you worked hard enough and tried hard enough, things would work out. I was wrong." --Katharine Graham

            by bobswern on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 01:46:40 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  her trials and tribulations are reported on DKos (5+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              TomP, Wee Mama, jiffypop, Sharkmeister, doroma

              but don't come from DKos.

              Meteor Blades posts environmental/global warming diaries every week.  I don't recall the Feds or Exxon being on him.

              In the end, reality always wins.

              by Lenny Flank on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 01:54:30 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  How would you know if they were? Actually, corp. (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Sharkmeister

                people are more likely to follow and keep tabs on MB.

                Patriotism may be the last refuge of scoundrels, but religion is assuredly the first.

                by StrayCat on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 08:28:14 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  MB knows the score. I assume if the Feds were (3+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Sharkmeister, doroma, duhban

                  harrassing him, he'd know about it.

                  In the end, reality always wins.

                  by Lenny Flank on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 08:37:50 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  That doesn't mean he'd say anything about it. And (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    CIndyCasella

                    he, in fact may not know one way or the other.  That's how it's designed to work, you know.  In fact, the evidence is clear and convincing that all of our communications are recorded and kept, allowing whoever is in power to go back and pick and choose what to put together into a story for a prosecutor or for a prospective employer.  For the surveillance state, you are either on the bus or off the bus.  Most here are off the bus, and thus persons of interest.  Now, does not that sound better than suspect?

                    Patriotism may be the last refuge of scoundrels, but religion is assuredly the first.

                    by StrayCat on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 09:53:08 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

            •  Also, anti-KXL activists, people that are... (14+ / 0-)

              ...supporting positions contrary to getting in the way of increasing big business' bottom lines big business (now being targeted by local, regional and federal law enforcement with an "assist" from our nation's intelligence agencies), and probably anti-trade agreement (TPP, etc.) folks, based upon the history of law enforcement targeting anti-WTO activists in past years.

              But, other than that, "nothing to see here..."

              "I always thought if you worked hard enough and tried hard enough, things would work out. I was wrong." --Katharine Graham

              by bobswern on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 01:57:48 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  reeeaaallllyyyy . . . . . . (4+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                TomP, Wee Mama, Sharkmeister, doroma

                Show me.

                ...supporting positions contrary to getting in the way of increasing big business' bottom lines big business (now being targeted by local, regional and federal law enforcement with an "assist" from our nation's intelligence agencies), and probably anti-trade agreement (TPP, etc.) folks, based upon the history of law enforcement targeting anti-WTO activists in past years.
                Show me some of these people, and point to instances of them being targeted here by either corporations or the government.

                In the end, reality always wins.

                by Lenny Flank on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 02:02:40 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  indeed, Bob--YOU have written diaries here about (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Sharkmeister

                  many of these things---what has the FBI, CIA, NSA, local or regional law enforcement done to YOU lately . . . ?

                  In the end, reality always wins.

                  by Lenny Flank on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 02:09:11 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  You're a bit out of your mind, and I think... (14+ / 0-)

                    ...you're writing yourself a ticket to a timeout or bojoville. So, please, keep it up. If nothing else, that will mean this diary served a purpose to better the community!

                    (Once again, knowing I was dealing with a troll I gave you the benefit of the doubt, because you've only trolled my posts a few times. I really should know better.)

                    "I always thought if you worked hard enough and tried hard enough, things would work out. I was wrong." --Katharine Graham

                    by bobswern on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 02:16:53 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  how dreadful (2+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      TomP, Sharkmeister

                      I notice you didn't answer my question though.

                      I take it, then, that the NSA, CIA, FBI, local law enforcement and regional law enforcement have done exactly bupkiss to you for anything you have written here.

                      Right?

                      In the end, reality always wins.

                      by Lenny Flank on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 02:24:11 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  This has nothing to do with me... (7+ / 0-)

                        ...and any assumptions or deliberate comments you'd make to distort matters to the contrary would be just that...pure fabrication....just like most of the other comments you've littered in this post, this morning.

                        "I always thought if you worked hard enough and tried hard enough, things would work out. I was wrong." --Katharine Graham

                        by bobswern on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 04:26:15 AM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  OK, so that would be (2+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          Sharkmeister, JoanMar

                          "No, nobody from the NSA, FBI, CIA or cops has ever done a goddamn thing to me because of all the stuff I write at DKos---and I have zero evidence that they have done so to anyone else here, either."

                          Yes?

                          In the end, reality always wins.

                          by Lenny Flank on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 04:28:37 AM PST

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  What, exactly, do you think (3+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            StrayCat, Sharkmeister, DeadHead

                            the spooks "do" to people they're monitoring? Really, I'd like to know.

                            There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves. - Will Rogers

                            by Joieau on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 08:13:30 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  I answered this in some detail elsewhere (I don't (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Sharkmeister

                            remember if it was this diary or one of the other two) but the short version----they are picking out our radicals and marking them to follow them further. That's how they first tagged me back in the 80's--I was with a little local church-based peace-and-justice group. The group was harmless and pretty impotent, so the Feds didn't hassle them, but they always ID's the militants in the bunch and followed them when they left the group.  In my case that paid off, since I ended up in the SWP, RCP, IWW, CISPES, Greenpeace and a few others.

                            I suspect they do the same thing here; they don't give a rat's ass about our electioneering or fundraising or our diaries, but I'm sure they are identifying all the militants and radicals, to follow them after they leave. Especially if they think a particular person will either be a potential informant-recruit one day, or a decent organizer who may reach high levels in the organization. (Again that paid off for them in my case, since I was General-Secretary of the IWW for two years, and GEB board member for another year.)

                            I suspect they did things similarly back in the 60's, but that was before my time--you'd have to ask MB about that; his file is, uh, a lot thicker than mine ;).

                            In the end, reality always wins.

                            by Lenny Flank on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 08:46:09 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Then for fuck's sake, (6+ / 0-)

                            why do you keep demanding that Bob or anybody else commenting in any of these diaries provide you with some kind of "proof" that gub'ment watchers have "done something" to them before you'll believe gub'ment watchers are watching?

                            It really is just distract and hijack with you, isn't it?

                            There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves. - Will Rogers

                            by Joieau on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 08:58:37 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  because they are accusing others (however (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Sharkmeister

                            indirectly) of BEING government and/or corporate infiltrators who are disrupting their diaries or whatever.

                            If the CTers want to wave their arms that the feds are everywhere, that's fine. But when they start pointing fingers, they better have some hard info to back that up.  And they don't.

                            In the end, reality always wins.

                            by Lenny Flank on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 09:25:40 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Nobody need point a finger (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            DeadHead, bobswern

                            in your direction, since your hijacking and disruption are so blatantly obvious.

                            There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves. - Will Rogers

                            by Joieau on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 09:51:40 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  OK, so I work for the FBi (0+ / 0-)

                            And they're paying me overtime for staying up all night.

                            (yawn)

                            In the end, reality always wins.

                            by Lenny Flank on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 10:59:51 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  CTers are people who cry CT. CTs are the (0+ / 0-)

                            conspiracy theorists.  We  must get the acronyms on this acrimonious subject coordinated or we will have to agree to disagree.

                            Information is the currency of democracy. ~Thomas Jefferson

                            by CIndyCasella on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 10:47:31 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Love the tagline / signature! nt (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Joieau

                            the Clear Light is the consciousness of the quantum vacuum

                            by Sharkmeister on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 09:16:04 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  We already know some listened into the (0+ / 0-)

                            soldiers talking on the phone with their wives/husbands and got a kick out of that and others stalked their ex girlfriends...all in the name of national security.

                            Information is the currency of democracy. ~Thomas Jefferson

                            by CIndyCasella on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 10:38:01 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  so fucking what (0+ / 0-)

                            We're not soldiers in Afghanistan or Iraq, and we have no phones for them to listen in on.

                            In the end, reality always wins.

                            by Lenny Flank on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 11:08:57 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                •  Now you're threadjacking...stop it... (14+ / 0-)

                  ...and this is an ongoing thing you've been doing, occasionally in my posts, but much moreso in others.

                  I've reported on these FACTS in previous posts. There've been news reports in the MSM, and many diaries in this community, by MANY Kossacks, about these groups being targeted by law enforcement.

                  You asked about targeting. I'm telling you. That means the activities and public pronouncements of these folks--whether those pronouncements are occurring on Facebook, Twitter or here--are being monitored. To posit that's not the case with individuals like Bill McKibben or Jesselyn Radack is just bullshit.

                  But, again, I covered this quite factually and extensively in previous posts. And, I'm sure as hell NOT going to waste another moment with you on the subject, since you're doing LITTLE more than trolling, at this point. (And, it's memorialized and self-evident for all to see, too.)

                  Don't you have a diary to post on how great Sherman Tanks are...or something?

                  "I always thought if you worked hard enough and tried hard enough, things would work out. I was wrong." --Katharine Graham

                  by bobswern on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 02:11:48 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  baloney. YOU made the claims: (6+ / 1-)
                    Recommended by:
                    TomP, doroma, Cedwyn, Sharkmeister, JoanMar, AnnetteK
                    Hidden by:
                    kharma
                    I wanted to state that it's already a well-proven fact (based upon original U.S. government documents) that the Department of Homeland Security and the FBI have regularly-monitored Daily Kos in the past few years for intelligence purposes, and you may read about that in my post from April 4th, 2013, which is linked here: "2011 Gov’t Report Confirmation: DHS, Banks Gathered Key Intel On OWS From Daily Kos, Other Sites."
                    and
                    Climate change activists and Snowden... (0+ / 0-)
                    ...supporters are certainly targets. Look no further than Jesselyn Radack's trials and tribulations for proof of that.
                    and
                    Also, anti-KXL activists, people that are... (0+ / 0-)
                    ...supporting positions contrary to getting in the way of increasing big business' bottom lines big business (now being targeted by local, regional and federal law enforcement with an "assist" from our nation's intelligence agencies), and probably anti-trade agreement (TPP, etc.) folks, based upon the history of law enforcement targeting anti-WTO activists in past years.

                    But, other than that, "nothing to see here..."

                    I'm merely asking you to back up your assertions. Show me.  Show me these people here at DKos who have been targeted by either the government or the corporations.

                    But you won't. You can't. There isn't any. Including you.

                    Nobody at DKos has been targeted by the NSA, CIA, FBI, or any local or regional law enforcement becausae of anything they have written here. Nobody. N-O-B-O-D-Y. Not even YOU.

                    Wave your arms at me all you want.  Call me whatever names you want.  Bitch and moan about everything from the number of comments I make to my mother's weight and my dog's name. The fact remains: Your claim is pure unadulterated bullshit, and you can't back it up.  

                    Period.

                    Put up or shut up.

                    Show me these hordes of people being persecuted here. Or withdraw your silly claim.

                    In the end, reality always wins.

                    by Lenny Flank on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 02:20:54 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Here's the thing...I did not write what you're... (13+ / 0-)

                      ...claiming I wrote.

                      1.) I stated the blog has been targeted by law enforcement in the past.

                      2.) I've stated that certain groups have been targeted and are targeted by law enforcement. (I made a general claim about that, without respect to THIS blog.)

                      So, show me where I stated anything OTHER than that, please?

                      (And, yes, there ARE certainly a few individuals that are members of this community that have been targeted by law enforcement, and I named a couple of them.)

                      This is definitely the last time I'll be responding to you.

                      "I always thought if you worked hard enough and tried hard enough, things would work out. I was wrong." --Katharine Graham

                      by bobswern on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 03:20:19 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  bullshit (3+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        Sharkmeister, JoanMar, AnnetteK

                        My comment was specific and clear:

                         well, to be accurate, the Feds were watching the (1+ / 0-)
                        Occupy people at DKos, not DKos itself (I know that because I was one of them--one of the reports specifically mentions diaries that I wrote here about Occupy St Pete, Occupy Tampa, and the RNC). The Feds didn't give a flying fuck about people who were writing election diaries or meta diaries or any diaries that weren't about Occupy. If the OWS people had been posting on the Mickey Mouse Club website instead, the Feds would have been monitoring the Mickey Mouse Club website too.

                        I suspect that once Occupy disappeared, so did the Fed interest in DKos.

                        All we do here now is preach to the converted and write checks once in a while to mainstream candidates.

                        This correction was clearly and specifically in response to YOUR statement:
                        But, first I wanted to state that it's already a well-proven fact (based upon original U.S. government documents) that the Department of Homeland Security and the FBI have regularly-monitored Daily Kos in the past few years for intelligence purposes, and you may read about that in my post from April 4th, 2013, which is linked here: "2011 Gov’t Report Confirmation: DHS, Banks Gathered Key Intel On OWS From Daily Kos, Other Sites."
                        And you attempted to defend your statement with this:
                        Climate change activists and Snowden... (1+ / 0-)
                        ...supporters are certainly targets. Look no further than Jesselyn Radack's trials and tribulations for proof of that.
                        And why did you cite Jesselyn Radack's name specifically? Because Jesselyn posts here at Daily Kos.

                        So don't bullshit me.  You shot your mouth off, and I closed your mouth for you.

                        But I'm now happy to let the matter drop, as soon as you acknowledge, out loud, that nobody at DKos, including YOU, has been persecuted or harrassed or oppressed or whatever by the FBI, CIA, NSA, or any law enforcement, because of any diary or comment that those authorities found by monitoring anyone's posts here.

                        True, or false?

                        In the end, reality always wins.

                        by Lenny Flank on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 03:48:49 AM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  My original comments about your behavior stand... (12+ / 0-)

                          ...you're a very dishonest blogger. And a serial threadjacker. Furthermore, you cannot find any support (in my own statements) for you abusive behavior, so now you're just making shit up out of thin air.

                          And, more importantly, you do this quite often and with MANY other Kossacks in this community. How you're still allowed to maintain your membership in this community is beyond me.

                          Furthermore, I read Jesselyn Radack's work in at least 6-8 other places (places other than DKos), and to a lesser extent, Bill McKibben's work, too.

                          To posit that they're NOT being monitored by our government--activists in whistleblowing and with regard to our environment, respectively--is downright absurd.

                          So, yeah...NEWFLASH...prominent social acitivisits, with regard to various issues, happen to blog at Daily Kos.

                          Everything else you're just making up in your own head. Since, there's NOTHING to support your twisting of what I've written in this post, or in the comments to it!

                          "I always thought if you worked hard enough and tried hard enough, things would work out. I was wrong." --Katharine Graham

                          by bobswern on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 03:53:49 AM PST

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  and more bullshit (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Sharkmeister, JoanMar

                            Nobody here has been targeted by anybody because of what they have said here. Nobody. Not even YOU.

                            And if anyone wants to claim otherwise, then show me. Name names. Put up or shut up.

                            Until then, it's all just more revolution-porn martyr fantasies.

                            In the end, reality always wins.

                            by Lenny Flank on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 04:03:35 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  You just continue to make this shit up? (9+ / 0-)

                            You're not even good at trolling? But, you write a hell of a post when it comes to military hardware, and weapons of destruction. You're not too good at destroying reputations, however....except for maybe your own.

                            I'm giving you about a week before someone in management in this community has the common sense to 86 your ass. (I'll settle for a timeout for you, however. But, one can hope.)

                            "I always thought if you worked hard enough and tried hard enough, things would work out. I was wrong." --Katharine Graham

                            by bobswern on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 04:08:18 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                        •  ALL influential sites are watched (0+ / 0-)

                          ... and the more important ones are probably targeted.  

                          Remember, they have software to enable one cubicle dweeb to operate a dozen or more personas with each persona on multiple sites.

                          the Clear Light is the consciousness of the quantum vacuum

                          by Sharkmeister on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 09:24:45 AM PST

                          [ Parent ]

                        •  What a waste of government money if this is true. (0+ / 0-)

                          Hey, whoever is running the NSA budget, you should cut this fat out of your budget ASAP.   Put that in your metadata and file it under a penny saved is a penny earned.

                          Information is the currency of democracy. ~Thomas Jefferson

                          by CIndyCasella on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 10:50:55 AM PST

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  Now you're getting it. (0+ / 0-)

                            Budget justification, baby.

                            With a side of arrogant bullying sadism.

                            Grow up, assholes.

                            I tried to go online to find a similar bear head...but when I searched “Big Bear Head” it gave me a San Diego craigslist ad entitled “Big Bear needs some quick head now” and then I just decided to never go on the internet again.--Jenny Lawson

                            by SouthernLiberalinMD on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 12:28:51 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  I'm on your side on this issue. I'm serious about (0+ / 0-)

                            them cutting the budget.  It is a waste to be spying on people.

                            Information is the currency of democracy. ~Thomas Jefferson

                            by CIndyCasella on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 01:27:37 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  When I say cut this fat out of your budge, I mean (0+ / 0-)

                            put the annoying pains out of a job.  

                            Information is the currency of democracy. ~Thomas Jefferson

                            by CIndyCasella on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 01:29:26 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  "Grow up, assholes" (0+ / 0-)

                            was for the security sector, not you.
                            I agree with you, too.

                            I tried to go online to find a similar bear head...but when I searched “Big Bear Head” it gave me a San Diego craigslist ad entitled “Big Bear needs some quick head now” and then I just decided to never go on the internet again.--Jenny Lawson

                            by SouthernLiberalinMD on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 02:07:43 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                    •  Stop fabricating shit. (15+ / 0-)

                      Why are you busting your ass in three fucking threads trying to convince people that N-O-B-O-D-Y on dkos is being watched?

                      How the fuck do you know?

                      Why don't YOU "put up or shut up?"




                      Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us. ~ Garcia

                      by DeadHead on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 03:45:05 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                    •  Lenny, so are you admitting to us that you (15+ / 0-)

                      are in a position to know who has and has not been targeted???

                      Nobody at DKos has been targeted by the NSA, CIA, FBI, or any local or regional law enforcement becausae of anything they have written here. Nobody. N-O-B-O-D-Y. Not even YOU.
                      WE do know that Jesselyn Radack HAS BEEN TARGETED.

                      Her offices were broken into AND she's been targeted while traveling abroad.

                      Attorney for Edward Snowden Interrogated at U.K. Airport, Placed on "Inhibited Persons List"

                      a designation reportedly used by the U.S. Department of Homeland Security to require further vetting of certain passengers.
                      Without a leaked memo or email or document showing our gov't is targeting specific people WHICH seems to be the "proof" you demand,  we have prima facie evidence that SHE IS A TARGET, by the mere fact she has been designated by the DHS to be "further vetted" an on one of those unconstitutional "lists" our gov't keeps creating.

                      -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

                      by gerrilea on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 03:46:29 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  well of course I am, silly----I work for the FBI, (4+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        Wee Mama, duhban, Sharkmeister, AnnetteK

                        remember?  (snicker)

                        Um, Jesselyn has not been targeted for anything she has done HERE---she is targeted because she was working with Snowden. If she had never posted a single word to DKos, she'd still have been targeted. Indeed, other people who work with Snowden have also been targeted and none of them ever wrote a single word for DKos.

                        In the end, reality always wins.

                        by Lenny Flank on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 03:54:25 AM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  How the hell do you know this????? (6+ / 0-)

                          Show me your proof!

                          -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

                          by gerrilea on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 04:01:35 AM PST

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  because the Feds targeted ALL HIS LAWYERS (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Sharkmeister

                            Here is someone who is a lawyer for one of the most wanted men in the world, a guy the US government would love dearly to put behind bars forever---and you sincerely think that the Feds are targeting that person NOT because of that, but because that person wrote some blog posts about it . . . ?  

                            Really?

                            Really and truly, that's what you think?

                            Come onnnnnnnnnnnnnnn.

                            You're not this dumb, so I can only assume you are being deliberately obtuse.

                            In the end, reality always wins.

                            by Lenny Flank on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 04:17:39 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Back at ya... (5+ / 0-)
                            You're not this dumb,
                            So, when you demand proof from Bob about something you created wholly out of loin cloth, shouldn't we be telling you the same thing?
                            Here is someone who is a lawyer for one of the most wanted men in the world
                            How'd you end that?
                            so I can only assume you are being deliberately obtuse.
                            and I will add, intentionally divisive and distracting from the topic of this well written AND documented diary.

                            -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

                            by gerrilea on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 04:34:46 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Intentionally being the operative word (3+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            gerrilea, ChemBob, Sharkmeister

                            These people are getting desperate. Either that, or they think they're Really Important and Oh-So-Very-Witty.

                            One way ticket to bojoville, any time, either way. I've done my share. I'm sick of this shit.

                            This all started with "what the Republicans did to language".

                            by lunachickie on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 07:18:34 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  He thinks he knows, and that is that. n/t (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            gerrilea

                            Information is the currency of democracy. ~Thomas Jefferson

                            by CIndyCasella on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 11:03:40 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                        •  Personally I find that 'evidence' (2+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          Sharkmeister, AnnetteK

                          more than a tad lacking. I mean, seriously, having to answer questions when going between countries - gee, that NEVER happens. Certainly never happened to me, oh heavens no! And a customs officer not being full of sunshine and rainbows? Heavens to betsy! And I'm still more than a little confused how the fact that the guy hadn't even heard of Snowden, but semed to have vaguely heard of the Assange somehow means he was on some anti-whistleblower mission from the feds.

                          And seriously, that an office was broken into, locked cabinets were broken, and the only things missing were small valuable items of a size that 1-2 people could manage to haul off in one trip? Gee, that never happens in America, dear god no. It's not like the US has millions of buglaries per year that follow exactly that pattern. If it was a fed, they would have just cloned the hard drives and left everything exactly as it was (possibly bugging it as well) and she'd never know - and you think a fed on some sort of anti-whistleblower mission would bust a lock and leave that as evidence rather than lockpicking it or likewise? But no, because the place was ransacked and a couple of small, valuable items stolen, and some customs officer who was only mildly informed bout world affairs dared ask someone travelling between countries questions... clearly it's a GIANT CONSPIRACY against her!

                          The day I'll consider justice blind is the day that a rape defendent's claim of "She consented to the sex" is treated by the same legal standards as a robbery defendent's claim of "He consented to give me the money": as an affirmative defense.

                          by Rei on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 05:23:05 AM PST

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  and remarkably enough, all that was done to her (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Sharkmeister, AnnetteK

                            NOT because she is the lawyer for the most wanted man in the entire world, but because----she wrote blog posts at DKOS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

                            Uh, yeah . . . . . . .

                            In the end, reality always wins.

                            by Lenny Flank on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 05:31:46 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Personally? Thanks for your opinion n/t (3+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            gerrilea, Sharkmeister, cybrestrike

                            This all started with "what the Republicans did to language".

                            by lunachickie on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 07:18:54 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Boy, how do you put the usual questions and (3+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Sharkmeister, cybrestrike, gerrilea

                            examination of people crossing national borders with the kind of arrest, detention and grilling that Jessalyn Radich had to put up with.  Or the same with others engaged in fighting for our liberties.  "Do you have anything to declare?" And "what is the purpose for your visit to England?" Is the same as hours long grilling, threats and intimidation?

                            Patriotism may be the last refuge of scoundrels, but religion is assuredly the first.

                            by StrayCat on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 08:52:44 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  What "arrest"? (0+ / 0-)

                            She was asked half a dozen questions when passing through customs on an international flight. Which is not at all out of the ordinary - that's what customs agents are paid to do, to figure out why people are going between countries and see if any acts nervous or suspicious when responding to questions.

                            This whole persecution complex gets old fast.

                            The day I'll consider justice blind is the day that a rape defendent's claim of "She consented to the sex" is treated by the same legal standards as a robbery defendent's claim of "He consented to give me the money": as an affirmative defense.

                            by Rei on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 05:07:19 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                        •  Personally I find that 'evidence' (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          Sharkmeister

                          more than a tad lacking. I mean, seriously, having to answer questions when going between countries - gee, that NEVER happens. Certainly never happened to me, oh heavens no! And a customs officer not being full of sunshine and rainbows? Heavens to betsy! And I'm still more than a little confused how the fact that the guy hadn't even heard of Snowden, but semed to have vaguely heard of the Assange somehow means he was on some anti-whistleblower mission from the feds.

                          And seriously, that an office was broken into, locked cabinets were broken, and the only things missing were small valuable items of a size that 1-2 people could manage to haul off in one trip? Gee, that never happens in America, dear god no. It's not like the US has millions of buglaries per year that follow exactly that pattern. If it was a fed, they would have just cloned the hard drives and left everything exactly as it was (possibly bugging it as well) and she'd never know - and you think a fed on some sort of anti-whistleblower mission would bust a lock and leave that as evidence rather than lockpicking it or likewise? But no, because the place was ransacked and a couple of small, valuable items stolen, and some customs officer who was only mildly informed bout world affairs dared ask someone travelling between countries questions... clearly it's a GIANT CONSPIRACY against her!

                          The day I'll consider justice blind is the day that a rape defendent's claim of "She consented to the sex" is treated by the same legal standards as a robbery defendent's claim of "He consented to give me the money": as an affirmative defense.

                          by Rei on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 05:23:22 AM PST

                          [ Parent ]

                    •  He for ct (6+ / 0-)

                      You said

                      Nobody at DKos has been targeted by the NSA, CIA, FBI, or any local or regional law enforcement becausae of anything they have written here. Nobody. N-O-B-O-D-Y. Not even YOU.

                       

                      If debugging is the process of removing bugs, then programming must be the process of putting them in.

                      by kharma on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 04:12:12 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                    •  Lenny, that's disengenious to say the least. (7+ / 0-)

                      This stuff is so well documented going back to JEHoov and Mcarthy, its never stopped, ie the Vietnam war protesters, and continues this day with Radack and Greenwald et al. You are all wet here, stop injecting doubt where there is none, like a climate change denier.

                      A true craftsman will meticulously construct the apparatus of his own demise.

                      by onionjim on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 04:46:26 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                    •  Links in diary. Quite enough to be going on with. (3+ / 0-)

                      I tried to go online to find a similar bear head...but when I searched “Big Bear Head” it gave me a San Diego craigslist ad entitled “Big Bear needs some quick head now” and then I just decided to never go on the internet again.--Jenny Lawson

                      by SouthernLiberalinMD on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 05:36:44 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                    •  Good thing plausible deniability isn't in their.. (0+ / 0-)

                      .. playbook.  

                      Oh wait, it is!

                      Do you have to be hit by a meteorite to believe they exist?  

                      the Clear Light is the consciousness of the quantum vacuum

                      by Sharkmeister on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 09:20:38 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                    •  You sound just like Mr. Put up and Shut up (0+ / 0-)

                      who inspired me to find stuff I don't think he wanted me to write a diary about.

                      He said the exact same line!  Wow, what a coinky dink!

                      Information is the currency of democracy. ~Thomas Jefferson

                      by CIndyCasella on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 10:42:53 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                    •  Have another! (0+ / 0-)

                      I tried to go online to find a similar bear head...but when I searched “Big Bear Head” it gave me a San Diego craigslist ad entitled “Big Bear needs some quick head now” and then I just decided to never go on the internet again.--Jenny Lawson

                      by SouthernLiberalinMD on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 12:28:09 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                  •  Was threadjacking a long time ago. (4+ / 0-)

                    Pull out, Bob.

                    I tried to go online to find a similar bear head...but when I searched “Big Bear Head” it gave me a San Diego craigslist ad entitled “Big Bear needs some quick head now” and then I just decided to never go on the internet again.--Jenny Lawson

                    by SouthernLiberalinMD on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 05:36:17 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                •  Oh, fuck. here we go again... (13+ / 0-)

                  You found a yet another thread to post another fifty fucking comments.

                  You're gonna shit in every one of these diaries aren't you?




                  Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us. ~ Garcia

                  by DeadHead on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 03:39:39 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  I asked for evidence (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Sharkmeister

                    Show me some.

                    It's that simple.

                    If people here are being targeted by either the corporations or the government for what they write here, then show me.

                    Until then, you're just pissing in the wind.  (shrug)

                    In the end, reality always wins.

                    by Lenny Flank on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 04:04:36 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  You made the same point A BUNCH of times (6+ / 0-)

                      That is, at the very least, deliberately spamming. You've clearly and methodically jacked damn near every thread in this discussion.

                      I don't give two shits or a damn who you think you are or who you work for. I see this in another diary, you're HR-on-sight. You're not even trying to hide it. You are deliberately disrupting and you should fucking well be banned for it. Stupid, childish, desperate behavior that has no place in a "reality-based community".

                      This all started with "what the Republicans did to language".

                      by lunachickie on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 07:24:58 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  forgive me for talking to9 different people at (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        Sharkmeister

                        different times . . . .

                        How about if the posse just elects ONE person to do all the talking, and then I won';t have to give the same answer to ten different people asking the same question.

                        In the end, reality always wins.

                        by Lenny Flank on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 07:37:00 AM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  Deliberate disruption (4+ / 0-)

                          intentionally "making conversation" in nine different threads, in order to vomit variations of your same vehement, fantasy-based bullshit all over them is what's known as "threadjacking" and it is against site rules here.

                          Those who have uprated you need to think long and hard about those uprates.

                          This all started with "what the Republicans did to language".

                          by lunachickie on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 08:33:34 AM PST

                          [ Parent ]

                        •  There's your problem. (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          BradyB

                          Try reducing that number to about 3.

                          Perhaps people aren't like, getting convinced, or something.

                          There's no "posse," just a bunch of people similarly weary of your incessant attempts to persuade them you're right, just because you said so.




                          Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us. ~ Garcia

                          by DeadHead on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 10:33:49 AM PST

                          [ Parent ]

                  •  Yes. (0+ / 0-)

                    He asks for "evidence" and every time he gets some, he redefines what evidence is, and when his argument is disproved, he simply doesn't admit it and keeps arguing. Cute. Same right-wing methods pioneered by Lee Atwater in the 80s. If he is any kind of a leftist, he should be ashamed of himself for using those methods.

                    I tried to go online to find a similar bear head...but when I searched “Big Bear Head” it gave me a San Diego craigslist ad entitled “Big Bear needs some quick head now” and then I just decided to never go on the internet again.--Jenny Lawson

                    by SouthernLiberalinMD on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 11:48:51 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

              •  You have evidence for that? (4+ / 0-)

                And what do you think is being done?  Diaries read?  Files made?  Active disinformation. Shills?  Well, it's a jobs program I guess.  Stimulus hiring people to investigate diaries and writers on dkos.  Everything written here is public.

                Join us on the Black Kos front porch to review news and views written from a black pov—everyone is welcome.

                by TomP on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 03:11:52 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  I back up all of my statements with facts... (9+ / 0-)

                  ...and that includes 35 years of media work, much of it in p.r. And, I've worked with many social media groups--including in multiple political campaigns--and "reputation management" is a BIG, BIG part of that. And, it's both positive and negative, in terms of the communications that occurs.

                  I've also provided, within this diary, links to hundreds of thousand of reputation management firms and consultants.

                  So, what the f*ck am I not supporting in my comments, exactly.

                  You're acting more shamefully in this post than I've ever seen you behave in my seven years here.

                  Again....since you didn't read the original link...

                  1.) There has been law enforcement monitoring of this community. It's been proven, beyond any doubt.

                  2.) There is law enforcement monitoring of certain issues-related groups and activists (but, I made that statement without respect to this community).

                  The commenter who's comments you've rec'd has deliberately misrepresented my MEMORIALIZED comments in this post. And, you're right there behind him, helping him our as he threadjacks, as well.

                  Furthermore, the commenter whose comments YOU are rec'ing has a lengthy history of doing this (threadjacking and outright LYING/DISTORTING what other write here) to many other Kossacks.

                  Like I said, you are better than that. Or, at least I thought you were. (Maybe I was wrong?)

                  "I always thought if you worked hard enough and tried hard enough, things would work out. I was wrong." --Katharine Graham

                  by bobswern on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 03:49:26 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  then name names. show us the facts. (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    doroma, Sharkmeister

                    Who here has been targeted by the government or a corporation because of what they have written here.  You?  Ray?  Dead Head? Anyone else?  No?

                    Then you are all just waving your arms.  (shrug)

                    See, Bob, I have an FBI file. You don't. I HAVE been targeted by the FBI. You weren't. I've had them interview my employers and my neighbors.  You haven't.

                    So I know what I am talking about.  You don't.

                    In the end, reality always wins.

                    by Lenny Flank on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 04:08:17 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Ummm, this makes no sense whatsoever (13+ / 0-)

                      Let's say you were a target, how would you know? Wouldn't it be all top secret like? Interviewing family members and neighbors doesn't mean your a target. When someone I know was hired by the CIA, the FBI interviewed everybody he knew. Was he a target? You have a FBI file, Big whoop. You are now in a fraternity of millions of other people. Congratz.

                      You're trying to conflate an argument on a technicality that maybe the targeting didn't originate at Daily Kos and maybe it didn't or maybe it did. You have no proof either way, either. Now, if you are saying the chances are nil that not one person here was targeted from a post they did here before any other forum then I would say your odds are very small considering how much organizing goes on at this website. I would define targeted as doing any search on your name in any NSA/Five Eyes database and considering the amount of searches that have been done, the odds are in my favor that my educated guess is correct. You are more than welcome to redefine "targeted" to fit your narrative but you'll still be blowing smoke.

                      Also, can you please stop threadjacking the NSA diaries. Yes, yes, people know you support the NSA.

                      •  It takes a Cindy Sheehan follower... (4+ / 0-)

                        ...to understand how totally full of crap the threadjacking is in my post! Thank you!

                        Cindy Sheehan is a hero!

                        "I always thought if you worked hard enough and tried hard enough, things would work out. I was wrong." --Katharine Graham

                        by bobswern on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 05:29:59 AM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                      •  I'm not the one making the assertion (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        Sharkmeister

                        The CTers here have zero evidence that they or anyone else has been disrupted by the feds or by a corporation.  yet they wave their arms about it anyway.

                        It's no different than any other silly CT nonsense. It just makes us look like paranoid Teabagger militia kookers who see ZOG behind every tree..

                        Yes, yes, people know you support the NSA.
                        I will ignore your juvenility--and since unlike most of the people here I am not a vindictive ideologue who HRs people who disagrees with him at the flimsiest idiotic excuse, I won't HR you for this petty attempt at insult.

                        In the end, reality always wins.

                        by Lenny Flank on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 05:39:01 AM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  You are right that I have no evidence (5+ / 0-)

                          because it's all top secret. Statistically, I believe my educated guess is correct. I take all the hot button topics like OWS and antiwar rallies, etc. Factor is how many posts and comments were on the subject. Factor in how many people clicked the link to read them. Then factor is the 10's of millions of searches done by whatever agencies and contractors do these searches. You'd get the likely hood that it's happened more than once, probably more than a few, and will happen again since people like you keep trying to move the goal posts on the spying scandals.

                          •  you're entirely welcome to any assumption you like (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Sharkmeister

                            What you are not entitled to do is assert it as fact.

                            If you want to assume that the government or Monsanto or whoever is doing . .   . well . . . something (everyone seems a little vague about just what these infiltrators and disruptors have actually DONE to anyone) then go right ahead.

                            Until you have evidence, it remains just a CT assumption. And when anyone here accuses anyone else of being a government/corporate infilitrator or disruptor or shill or whatever, you're just talking out your butt.  (shrug)

                            In the end, reality always wins.

                            by Lenny Flank on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 05:54:33 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Hmm, when did I assert it as fact? (5+ / 0-)

                            You're now doing the same thing to me as you did to Bob.

                            Isn't assumptions economics and politics? Isn't it part of science and exploration?

                            But, I tell you what. Why don't we make public the search of every American name that's been done and find out? That way we can get facts but I can't get the facts when people continually support these secret programs.

                          •  I'm glad to hear you concede that there's no (3+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            doroma, TheLizardKing, Sharkmeister

                            evidence to support the assumption that paid or unpaid government or corporate agents are infiltrating and disrupting DKos diaries in any detectable manner whatsoever.

                            Once you say that, there's no need for us to converse further.

                            In the end, reality always wins.

                            by Lenny Flank on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 06:54:42 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  asdf (0+ / 0-)

                            I tried to go online to find a similar bear head...but when I searched “Big Bear Head” it gave me a San Diego craigslist ad entitled “Big Bear needs some quick head now” and then I just decided to never go on the internet again.--Jenny Lawson

                            by SouthernLiberalinMD on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 12:19:27 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                      •  God, thank you. (0+ / 0-)

                        Maybe you'll get through where I can't.

                        Logic would be a nice thing.

                        I think that what they're actually trying for is to make my brain explode as in this Star Trek episode:

                        Too bad for them I'm made of sterner stuff than Norman.

                        I tried to go online to find a similar bear head...but when I searched “Big Bear Head” it gave me a San Diego craigslist ad entitled “Big Bear needs some quick head now” and then I just decided to never go on the internet again.--Jenny Lawson

                        by SouthernLiberalinMD on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 11:51:33 AM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                •  Many of us here spoke privately and publicly (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  StrayCat, Sharkmeister

                  on the shills that would continually come into Jesselyn's diaries and LIE, ignore actual facts and then spin, spin, spin.  Some of them were finally bojo'd.

                  There's a few that do the same thing to Ray Penador too.  So much so, he started putting up links at the bottom of his diaries.  I saved the links so that I could review the behaviors and become familiar with the tactics being used:

                  http://www.zerohedge.com/...

                  http://www.brasscheck.com/...

                  http://www.ritholtz.com/...

                  There's been published reports of the Israeli's paying students to go online and manipulate conversations.  There's also published reports dating back to the Bush Regime's  "information flow charts" being used online.

                  Our gov't DID repeal laws against using propaganda here!

                  We The People are just like any other foreign targets now.

                  -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

                  by gerrilea on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 04:00:04 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

            •  It's amazing that we have to have this fight (11+ / 0-)

              again, when links to the evidence are right in the diary above us.

              Apparently snickering is enough to dispel evidence and bring everything into question again.

              I tried to go online to find a similar bear head...but when I searched “Big Bear Head” it gave me a San Diego craigslist ad entitled “Big Bear needs some quick head now” and then I just decided to never go on the internet again.--Jenny Lawson

              by SouthernLiberalinMD on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 05:26:58 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Well, people have to simply make stuff up... (8+ / 0-)

                ...in order to fabricate an "issue." Happens all the time 'round here, regrettably.

                "I always thought if you worked hard enough and tried hard enough, things would work out. I was wrong." --Katharine Graham

                by bobswern on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 05:30:55 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

              •  category error (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Sharkmeister

                No one disputes that the government spies on us. They've spied on ME.

                Ther assertion is that the government and/or the corporados are infiltrating and disrupting DKos.

                I see zero evidence of that.  I see plain ole ordinary run of the mill Internet fighting that happens all over the Net in every forum, particularly among the left, which has had a hundred-year habit of fighting with itself.

                If people want to claim that DKos is being infiltrated and disrupted, it's incumbent upon them, in a reality-based world, to show the evidence that this is happening.  I await that evidence.

                In the end, reality always wins.

                by Lenny Flank on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 05:41:23 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Yeah, they are. Even if there were no (3+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  turn blue, Sharkmeister, cybrestrike

                  evidence of them infiltrating social media at all, Total Information Awareness aims at, well, Total Information Awareness. It's not about who's worth looking into anymore. That's old-fashioned conservativism. This is the new totalitarian budget justification model, with a side of illimitable arrogance and a remarkable lack of common sense.

                  I tried to go online to find a similar bear head...but when I searched “Big Bear Head” it gave me a San Diego craigslist ad entitled “Big Bear needs some quick head now” and then I just decided to never go on the internet again.--Jenny Lawson

                  by SouthernLiberalinMD on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 07:20:21 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                •  Well, you're the FBI file guy braggart (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Sharkmeister

                  here. You are disrupting. Doggedly so, in claiming that the reality of the situation described in this (and other diaries you've also disrupted today) isn't real, there's nothing to see here, I'm the Big Bad Guy 'target' because I've got a file, so I can confidently say nobody's being watched here and you all have to accept it with zero evidence... except that I've Got A File!

                  You honestly don't know how obvious you are, do you? Or do you get paid by the post, and this is just padding the account?

                  There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves. - Will Rogers

                  by Joieau on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 08:30:56 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  braggart? Hardly. Meteor Blades' FBI file is lots (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Sharkmeister, Wee Mama

                    bigger than mine.  Ask him about it.  Ask him how he feels about "find the infiltrator!!" hunts.

                    In the end, reality always wins.

                    by Lenny Flank on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 09:28:39 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  I don't participate (0+ / 0-)

                      in "find the infiltrator" hunts, so I wouldn't know how MB feels about them. We do see how Kos feels about them. It's just that I have not seen, in ANY of the three diaries today to the subject, that anybody's been called out. Suggesting that various gub'ment watchers, contractors, subcontractors and PR people (for given industrial concerns) might be here keeping track of what people are saying, is entirely noncontroversial. Of course they are, or they're not worth the money they're being paid.

                      YOU are the one (of several) who has apparently taken so much personal offense from the suggestion that you're spending an inordinate amount of time and effort hijacking and distracting this diary. And two others as well, just today!

                      What does that tell us about you? Just askin'...

                      Isn't worth shit to a tree, as Gracie Slick once said. Nobody cared until you drew that big red target around yourself. And that's just comic relief, after all.

                      There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves. - Will Rogers

                      by Joieau on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 02:50:54 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                •  Category error again. How nice of you to create (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Sharkmeister

                  sets with such narrowly drawn inclusion criteria that no one here can be in the set.  Sounds good, but it is just bullshit.

                  Patriotism may be the last refuge of scoundrels, but religion is assuredly the first.

                  by StrayCat on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 09:00:52 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

            •  I don't actually believe that the BS response (10+ / 0-)

              this site normally has to diaries like yours is in itself evidence of actual moles, trolls, and shills.

              In other words, to take your diary as an example, I don't think the response of Lenny and jbou means that they are moles, trolls, or shills, because I have another simpler explanation which I gave in Ray's diary:  people who are happy with the way things are, on the site or otherwise, aren't going to be willing to admit there's something ugly going on. Occam's Razor. Denial is a fine, fine thing.

              But I'm getting to the point where I can't blame the people who do think other Kossacks are moles, trolls, or shills. We purport to be reality-based, a respected diarist puts up links to evidence, and the response is that more than one person comes on here to blow a raspberry. Repeatedly.

              I tried to go online to find a similar bear head...but when I searched “Big Bear Head” it gave me a San Diego craigslist ad entitled “Big Bear needs some quick head now” and then I just decided to never go on the internet again.--Jenny Lawson

              by SouthernLiberalinMD on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 05:35:14 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  too funny (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Sharkmeister

                Yeah, that's me, alright--happy with the way things are.

                (snicker)

                OK, it's clear that none of y'all have any evidence that any of y'all, or anyone else here, has been targeted or infiltrated or disrupted by either the government or the corporados.

                When you have some evidence, please let me know.  Until then, all you have is CT assumptions and arm-waving.  (shrug)

                In the end, reality always wins.

                by Lenny Flank on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 05:47:43 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Look at my other comments. (3+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  cybrestrike, StrayCat, Sharkmeister

                  And if you're not happy with the way things are, which, given your history (which I didn't know about) is probably true, explain to me why you don't believe Poindexter and Clapper and the rest of the gang when they say that they want to capture all information.

                  I tried to go online to find a similar bear head...but when I searched “Big Bear Head” it gave me a San Diego craigslist ad entitled “Big Bear needs some quick head now” and then I just decided to never go on the internet again.--Jenny Lawson

                  by SouthernLiberalinMD on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 07:22:04 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  (sigh one more time for the hard of hearing . . . (0+ / 0-)

                    No one disputes that the Feds want to spy on absolutely everyone and are doing their goddamn bvestest to do so. No one disputes that the FBI and NSA and CIA have all (and are probably still) spied on domestic political groups. They spied on ME--they intercepted my mail and interviewed me and my employers. That is not the issue.

                    What is at issue here is (1) they are infiltrating DKos now, and (2) they are disrupting DKos posters in some unspecified way.

                    There is zero evidence for that. None. Not a shred.

                    We can assume, we can suppose, we can wave our arms and pee our pants--but there is zero evidence that anyone has been disrupted by any agent, paid or unpaid.

                    Which means that all those who weep and whine that "they" are disrupting my diary boo hoo hoo, had better be able to put up, or shut up.  Especially when they begin pointing fingers at specific people (in however roundabout a way).

                    So if Person Z wants to weep that Person X or Person Y is disrupting Person Z's diary on behalf of the CIA or NSA or XYZ PDQ or whatever, then Person Z better be able to show the evidence for that.  Or else STFU and quit their damn crybabying.

                    In the end, reality always wins.

                    by Lenny Flank on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 07:45:10 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  You've just made an interesting statement... (4+ / 0-)
                      What is at issue here is (1) they are infiltrating DKos now, and (2) they are disrupting DKos posters in some unspecified way.
                      I have NOT stated (NOR do I believe) "they're infiltrating DKos now," and I have NOT stated (NOR do I believe) that "they are disrupting DKos posters in some unspecified way."

                      So, what is your point, 50 or 75 comments later?

                      The only person I see "disrupting DKos posters in some unspecified way" is YOU. And, apparently, you're doing it because it floats your boat. Because, it's self-evident, if the only thing you've got are lies and distortions about what I've written here--AND THAT IS ALL YOU HAVE--then you really don't have dick.

                      Just based upon what I've observed of your behavior in other posts, my assessment is and was, even before today, that you're just another sad individual with too much time on your hands. But, I gave you the benefit of the doubt and initially respond to your comments in this post as if you were sincere. CLEARLY, that was mistake, and it'll never happen again. So, my final assessment is, you're you're just another sad, disingenuous individual with too much time on your hands.

                      I never thought you were paid shill or something along those lines. I ALWAYS thought you were just a sad individual with nothing better to do than to pick fights in posts; one who did so by just making shit up out of thin air.

                      And, unfortunately, I was right.

                      Not to worry, however. You've obviously found like-minded souls here that support your behavior. But, I promise you that if it happens in any of my posts going forward--assuming management in this community allows you stick around--it will not be due to anything I say in my posts, because I'll be ignoring you whenever you set foot in my posts, again.

                      "I always thought if you worked hard enough and tried hard enough, things would work out. I was wrong." --Katharine Graham

                      by bobswern on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 08:42:36 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  OK, so there's no evidence that anyone here is (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        Sharkmeister

                        being infiltrated or disrupted by any paid or unpaid government or corporate agents.

                        Great.  Once you say that, there's no need to converse further.

                        In the end, reality always wins.

                        by Lenny Flank on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 09:30:05 AM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  And that's not what he was saying either. (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          BlueDragon

                          Obviously, it's extremely likely that infiltration and disruption are happening at any given moment. That is a logical assessment of the situation, and of what evidence we have. However, obviously, we have no direct evidence that Agent X, using personalities A,B,C,D, and E, is infiltrating DKos at this minute and is screwing with Kossacks X, Y, and Z. In order to have such evidence, we'd have to be working for the agency or contractor involved. Or there would have to be another  Ed Snowden who in real time gave us the info on a specific agency, contractor, and agent(s).

                          For f*ck's sakes. Why is it so goddamned important to you to prove this illogical BS argument? Or to keep having it? Are you just trying to waste people's time, or what?

                          I tried to go online to find a similar bear head...but when I searched “Big Bear Head” it gave me a San Diego craigslist ad entitled “Big Bear needs some quick head now” and then I just decided to never go on the internet again.--Jenny Lawson

                          by SouthernLiberalinMD on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 11:37:35 AM PST

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  so then there IS evidence . . . . (0+ / 0-)

                            Cool.  Let's see it.

                            If people here are going to point fingers at other people here, however obliquely, and accuse them of being paid or unpaid infiltrators for whoever doing whatever, those people should either cough up their evidence for that, or shut the fuck up.

                            That is how the reality-based world works.

                            So which is it. Does anyone here have a shred of evidence of any sort that anyone here is a paid or unpaid infiltrator/disruptor/whatever for the cops or the feds or Monsanto or whoiever?

                            If so, let's see it.

                            If not, then shut the fuck up about it.

                            In the end, reality always wins.

                            by Lenny Flank on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 12:04:57 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  It's already there. It's been posted in the diary (0+ / 0-)

                            above, and in other diaries. I'm not going to repost links for you which have already been posted, just so that you can say once again that the evidence isn't evidence.

                            By the way, nobody's pointed fingers at any particular person.

                            And I see no reason why I should shut the fuck up, about this or anything.

                            I tried to go online to find a similar bear head...but when I searched “Big Bear Head” it gave me a San Diego craigslist ad entitled “Big Bear needs some quick head now” and then I just decided to never go on the internet again.--Jenny Lawson

                            by SouthernLiberalinMD on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 12:11:54 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  one more time . . . . (0+ / 0-)
                            It's already there. It's been posted in the diary (0+ / 0-)
                            above, and in other diaries. I'm not going to repost links for you which have already been posted, just so that you can say once again that the evidence isn't evidence.
                            Category error. No one disputes that the Feds spy on everyone. That is not the issue.  You can present an entire 18-wheeler-load of evidence for that, and it's irrelevant.
                            By the way, nobody's pointed fingers at any particular person.
                            Baloney. It's done obliquely and indirectly so they don't get their ass thrown out (since they can't back it up with a single shred of evidence) but more than one person here weeps and cries on an almost nightly basis that "infiltrators" and "shills" are "disrupting" their diaries sniffle sob boo hoo hoo. And there is nobody here, nobody at all, who mistakes who that finger is pointing at.
                            And I see no reason why I should shut the fuck up, about this or anything.
                            Nor has anyone suggested you should.  It might help if you read what is actually there, instead of what you want to see. The people who should shut the fuck up are the people who point their fingers (however obliquely) and yell "infiltrator !!!" without a single shred of anything even remotely resembling evidence.

                            In the end, reality always wins.

                            by Lenny Flank on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 12:24:46 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                    •  Common sense suggests... (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      SouthernLiberalinMD

                      1)  All sites are watched, most by automated systems.  Important sites probably get human attention along with.

                      2)  Influential sites get multiple planted personas that participate.

                      3)  A good chunk of the US DoD activity is in Arabic or other mideast languages

                      4)  Skillful use of personas makes them difficult to detect

                      5)  There will be no hard proof of ANY of these activities outside of classified files

                      the Clear Light is the consciousness of the quantum vacuum

                      by Sharkmeister on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 09:56:19 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  irrelevant (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        Sharkmeister

                        The dispute is not over whether the FBI monitors us.  I'm quite sure they do.

                        The question is whether anyone who is appointing fingers at people (however obliquely) and labelling them as paid infiltrators, has a shred of evidence to back up their accusations.

                        They don't. Nobody here has any evidence whatever of any sort that anyone here has been "disrupted" in any way shape or form by any infiltrator or disruptor from either the government or any corporation.  None.  Zip.  Not a shred.

                        So they should STFU.

                        In the end, reality always wins.

                        by Lenny Flank on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 11:06:05 AM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  From experience (0+ / 0-)

                          Castro's spies in US orgs have historically been rabidly anti-Castro in their surface personality.  Clearly, anyone who is above suspicion must be suspected.  

                          So how long have you known Mr. Meteor Blades?

                          the Clear Light is the consciousness of the quantum vacuum

                          by Sharkmeister on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 11:48:46 AM PST

                          [ Parent ]

                        •  PS Suspicion IS disruption (0+ / 0-)

                          Ironically, while it is possible there are no planted personas at Dkos, the fact that we are suspecting some of our friends are not really friends is already disruption.

                          When you don't know who you can trust you tend to keep your mouth shut and go along with the herd.

                          the Clear Light is the consciousness of the quantum vacuum

                          by Sharkmeister on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 12:13:26 PM PST

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  I won't. So no worries here. :-) (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Sharkmeister

                            I encourage everyone else to join me in not shutting up and not keeping their heads down.

                            Hey, Total Information Awareness means everybody's always suspect, which means you may as well live the good life.

                            Didn't Sun Tzu say something about depriving people of hope? Maybe they should have read that part more carefully.

                            I tried to go online to find a similar bear head...but when I searched “Big Bear Head” it gave me a San Diego craigslist ad entitled “Big Bear needs some quick head now” and then I just decided to never go on the internet again.--Jenny Lawson

                            by SouthernLiberalinMD on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 12:41:39 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  It's been a while since I visited Sun Tzu (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            SouthernLiberalinMD

                            I will have to revisit soon.  Will look for a good link later.

                            the Clear Light is the consciousness of the quantum vacuum

                            by Sharkmeister on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 12:44:39 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Conservatives just _love_Sun Tzu. (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Sharkmeister

                            They seem to think his work justifies them being asshats.

                            I tried to go online to find a similar bear head...but when I searched “Big Bear Head” it gave me a San Diego craigslist ad entitled “Big Bear needs some quick head now” and then I just decided to never go on the internet again.--Jenny Lawson

                            by SouthernLiberalinMD on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 12:47:53 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  I bet they just pretend to like him (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            SouthernLiberalinMD

                            Conservatives pretend to love free markets too, but they do everything they can to price-fix or otherwise cheat when forced to actually compete.

                            Similar to their pro-war attitudes, they are all for war as long as someone else does the actual fighting.

                            the Clear Light is the consciousness of the quantum vacuum

                            by Sharkmeister on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 12:56:47 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  You are so right. (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Sharkmeister

                            Couldn't stick to a principle if they tried.

                            Even low taxes are only low taxes for them (payroll taxes can be sky-high, yes sirree bobby!)

                            I tried to go online to find a similar bear head...but when I searched “Big Bear Head” it gave me a San Diego craigslist ad entitled “Big Bear needs some quick head now” and then I just decided to never go on the internet again.--Jenny Lawson

                            by SouthernLiberalinMD on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 12:58:18 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                        •  One great thing about this is I keep finding (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          Sharkmeister

                          really cool new (to me) videos of swing jazz.

                          I tried to go online to find a similar bear head...but when I searched “Big Bear Head” it gave me a San Diego craigslist ad entitled “Big Bear needs some quick head now” and then I just decided to never go on the internet again.--Jenny Lawson

                          by SouthernLiberalinMD on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 12:38:54 PM PST

                          [ Parent ]

                        •  This one is great but ya gotta wait (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          Sharkmeister

                          through a little bit of business at the beginning.

                          I tried to go online to find a similar bear head...but when I searched “Big Bear Head” it gave me a San Diego craigslist ad entitled “Big Bear needs some quick head now” and then I just decided to never go on the internet again.--Jenny Lawson

                          by SouthernLiberalinMD on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 12:46:25 PM PST

                          [ Parent ]

                    •  This is just BS. It would be one of the (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      BradyB

                      easier things for them to do to infiltrate a place like DKos. Simple. There's software that makes it really, really simple. This being an open forum makes it simpler. This being in the most public place, arguably, in the world makes it simpler. It would take one person a relatively small amount of their time to run 5 or 6 identities, if they felt like it, and that could be only part of their workday for Booz, or Lockheed Martin, or Xe--though I think Xe probably likes a richer diet--or the NSA itself. If nobody's disputing that Clapper et al want TIA, then why wouldn't they want to get information on a political blog? Probably on all political blogs? And it's not hard to get. Jesus, they could probably pay some 20-year-old 30K, teach him how to use the software, and that's all it would take.

                      Your argument is just not logical.

                      I tried to go online to find a similar bear head...but when I searched “Big Bear Head” it gave me a San Diego craigslist ad entitled “Big Bear needs some quick head now” and then I just decided to never go on the internet again.--Jenny Lawson

                      by SouthernLiberalinMD on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 11:33:03 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Boy, was I a chump to engage with this (0+ / 0-)

                        argument as if it were real.

                        I tried to go online to find a similar bear head...but when I searched “Big Bear Head” it gave me a San Diego craigslist ad entitled “Big Bear needs some quick head now” and then I just decided to never go on the internet again.--Jenny Lawson

                        by SouthernLiberalinMD on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 12:43:12 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

          •  puuuhhhlease show me evidence the government (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            gerrilea, Sharkmeister

            Was watching lenny.  I would find it more credible that lenny was watching. ..

            If debugging is the process of removing bugs, then programming must be the process of putting them in.

            by kharma on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 04:05:41 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  Kudos, if they noticed you then you know you're (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Sharkmeister

            doing something right.

            The frog jumped/ into the old pond/ plop! (Basho)

            by Wolf10 on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 06:31:56 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  You are naive. I would bed there is a monitor (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Sharkmeister

            here24/7.  It would be simple, efficient, and productive.  Many things here show up days and sometimes weeks before it starts getting around other sites.

            I now read way more than I post and I keep wanting to post more and I am really chicken with good reason.

            One of the stories here very early that was blown off  was some woman running for office as a democrat in New England finding a horse head in her swimming pool.  I have yet to see or hear real terrorism on a repub that did not turn out to be fake.

            In relationships believe what they tell you.  We were told that they were creating their own reality and history.  I see them as being very focused on doing just that.

            •  one more time, for the hard of hearing . . . . . (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Sharkmeister

              No one disputes that DKos is likely being monitored, as indeed EVERY political forum, of whatever persuasion, likely is. That is not the issue.

              The issue is the claims by certain people that outside agencies are infiltrating DKos and disrupting them in some unspecified manner.

              There is zero evidence anywhere for that. You may assume it, but that remains just your assumption. If anyone wants to start pointing fingers at particular people (no matter how indirectly), then "assumptions" no longer cut the mustard--that person better have hard evidence.  

              And there is no hard evidence.  At all.  Zip.,  Zero.  Zilch.  None.

              So either produce some, or quit the finger-pointing.

              In the end, reality always wins.

              by Lenny Flank on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 07:49:45 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

          •  You don't even make any sense... (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Brecht, Sharkmeister

            you are all over this diary saying the three letter organizations don't pay attention here then you contradict yourself by saying you were targeted.   Are you being dishonest or have you lost track of your persona?

            If debugging is the process of removing bugs, then programming must be the process of putting them in.

            by kharma on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 08:55:30 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Um I was targeted thiry years before DKos even (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Sharkmeister, Wee Mama

              existed. My file dates back to 1983.

              Do try and keep up, would you?

              In the end, reality always wins.

              by Lenny Flank on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 09:31:33 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  I keeping up very well. (0+ / 0-)

                You said:

                one of the reports specifically mentions diaries that I wrote here about Occupy St Pete, Occupy Tampa, and the RNC
                So tell me, why are you saying one thing here, another thing there.  You can't even keep your BS straight.  You can't be a paid troll or you'd be fired.

                If debugging is the process of removing bugs, then programming must be the process of putting them in.

                by kharma on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 10:10:07 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  ok, you're not keeping up: (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Wee Mama

                  As I wrote:

                   well, to be accurate, the Feds were watching the (6+ / 0-)
                  Occupy people at DKos, not DKos itself (I know that because I was one of them--one of the reports specifically mentions diaries that I wrote here about Occupy St Pete, Occupy Tampa, and the RNC). The Feds didn't give a flying fuck about people who were writing election diaries or meta diaries or any diaries that weren't about Occupy. If the OWS people had been posting on the Mickey Mouse Club website instead, the Feds would have been monitoring the Mickey Mouse Club website too.
                  The feds were not monitoring me, and they were not monitoring DKos--they were monitoring the OWS people who were posting here, including me. There's nothing in the documents about DKos or its posters or its diaries.  The Feds didn't give a damn about those.

                  If I go too fast for you let me know, OK?

                  In the end, reality always wins.

                  by Lenny Flank on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 10:58:05 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

    •  except by the Mormon Church , which has agents (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      jbou, rduran, Sharkmeister

      watching you  . . . . . .

      In the end, reality always wins.

      by Lenny Flank on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 01:42:54 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  My my.. (6+ / 0-)

      An attempt at derailment right off the bat.

      And maybe YOU are not important but there are people here that are.

      And this comment is not much more than mental masturbation so you may as well go ahead and do the physical bit.

      We Glory in war, in the shedding of human blood. What fools we are.

      by delver rootnose on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 04:20:54 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  stop feeding their fragile egos (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        rduran, Sharkmeister

        No one here has  is saying anything to rally enough people to scare the establishment enough to actually waste resources on our little online world.

        I sing praises in the church of nonsense, but in my heart I'm still an atheist, demanding sense of all things.

        by jbou on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 08:18:34 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I quite agree (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          rduran, jbou, Sharkmeister

          The little Maoist and Leninist groupuscules always had a super-inflated sense of their own self-importance, but the "radicals" here put even them to shame.  Some of them seem to think not only will the glorious revolution start in the next 100 weeks, but they will be the ones to start it.

          It's rather humorous to watch.  Alas, the disillusionment won't be pretty once it sets in, so I hope they get over it and move on. Their hearts really are in the right place--they just need some real-world experience (and no, chattering on the Internet is not real-world experience).

          In the end, reality always wins.

          by Lenny Flank on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 08:55:04 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  You underestimate.... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Sharkmeister

          ...their fear and their resources.

          We Glory in war, in the shedding of human blood. What fools we are.

          by delver rootnose on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 09:15:43 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  Ignore the facts. Embrace my snark instead. (5+ / 0-)

      I tried to go online to find a similar bear head...but when I searched “Big Bear Head” it gave me a San Diego craigslist ad entitled “Big Bear needs some quick head now” and then I just decided to never go on the internet again.--Jenny Lawson

      by SouthernLiberalinMD on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 05:24:59 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  It's all well and good to have... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Sharkmeister

      something to masturbate with, and to be proud of it.

      But don't be one.

      DBAD.

      HR'd for threadjacking.

    •  HRed for dickish threadjacking (4+ / 0-)

      I enjoy your off-the-wall sense of humor, jbou, especially in your own diaries.

      As the second comment in a substantial diary, you just set a childish tone and precipitated a derailing (with diligent assistance from Lenny Flank).

      "Every man has a right to utter what he thinks truth" Samuel Johnson

      by Brecht on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 08:22:02 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I was just being honest (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        rduran, Sharkmeister

        You implied my intent was to thread jack,  I wasn't,  I truly believe that we are too insignificant to be bothered with by anyone important at the nsafbicia. And I did get high and masturbate.

        I sing praises in the church of nonsense, but in my heart I'm still an atheist, demanding sense of all things.

        by jbou on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 08:30:00 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  No, I didn't imply your "intent" was to threadjack (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Sharkmeister

          I specifically said you "precipitated" a derailing to imply the opposite. And the second half of your comment had a point to it. Nevertheless, your opening jibe both lowered the tone and derailed substantial discussion of a live issue.

          "Every man has a right to utter what he thinks truth" Samuel Johnson

          by Brecht on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 08:42:33 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  HR for threadjack and general dickishness n/t (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ApostleOfCarlin, Sharkmeister


      Information is power. But, like all power, there are those who want to keep it for themselves. Aaron Swartz

      by Lisa Lockwood on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 09:19:36 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  That's gotta be the weakest troll possible (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      bobswern

      Can't you do better than that?

      None are so hopelessly enslaved, as those who falsely believe they are free. The truth has been kept from the depth of their minds by masters who rule them with lies. -Johann von Goethe

      by gjohnsit on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 09:36:30 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Thanks bobswern. (15+ / 0-)

    This is the most terrifying yet. Can't go anywhere or do anything anymore without being tracked. From a recent Frontline documentary Generation Like, "We Are All “Lab Rats” Online".  

    And I am doing it right now.  If you haven't seen it, do. Dove tails with this latest information.

    http://www.pbs.org/...

    Be the change you want to see in the world. -Gandhi

    by DRo on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 12:34:55 AM PST

  •  This is why, when reading (10+ / 0-)

    about emotional flash points like Venezuela and the Ukraine, almost nothing in either the media or the blogs can be believed, not specifically because the facts are manipulated by governments, but because almost everyone writing on the subject is preprogrammed to react a certain way, either because they believe received wisdom or because they are automatically discounting received wisdom.
    One of the weaknesses of governmental manipulation is that, quite possibly, it will eventually lead to such a schism in the general population that either revolution or civil war will be the result. Turning discourse into an emotional swamp is an effective tactic in the short term, but fails eventually.

    "The 'Middle' is a crowded place - that is where the effective power is - the extreme right and left might annoy governments, but the middle terrifies them." Johnny Linehan

    by northsylvania on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 01:11:16 AM PST

  •  Thanks for exposing this illegal surveillance, (9+ / 0-)

    Bobswern. Now, we must watch and see if our society and political leaders feel strongly enough about our constitutional rights to attempt to restore them.

    The means is the ends in the process of becoming. - Mahatma Gandhi

    by HoundDog on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 02:49:52 AM PST

  •  You mean spies read public statements?! (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Sharkmeister, Militarytracy

    Shocking!

    This is crazy-town paranoid stuff equivalent to the worst paranoia from right wing websites.

  •  Good diary bob (7+ / 0-)

    Hope This 'dud?'doesn't accuse you of hearing voices.

    If debugging is the process of removing bugs, then programming must be the process of putting them in.

    by kharma on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 03:52:02 AM PST

  •  pre emptive war against protests (6+ / 0-)

    On line political activism got harder

    Who can you trust?

    What are "they" doing to stop you?

    Soo 1984

    •  Nahhh...this is a day at the beach n/t (4+ / 0-)

      "I always thought if you worked hard enough and tried hard enough, things would work out. I was wrong." --Katharine Graham

      by bobswern on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 04:44:26 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  that is actually a very interesting question . . . (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Sharkmeister
      What are "they" doing to stop you?
      What ARE they doing to stop you . . . ?

      Assuming all this is actually happening (and I see no reason to think it is not), how effective is it actually being? What effect has it actually had on anyone here? What, exactly, HAS it stopped anybody from doing? What diaries didn't get posted because the Feds are watching? What comments didn't get made? In what way has anyone had his or her life effected in any way whatever by the NSA, CIA, FBI, cops, corporations, or anyone else, anywhere, as a result of someone spying on their DKos posts?

      Anyone?

      I suspect the actual answer is "nothing". . . .

      And it occurs to me that if the net effect of their presence is "nothing", then their presence is no different than their absence. If they are even here at all . . .

      In the end, reality always wins.

      by Lenny Flank on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 04:47:24 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Thank you, Bob. (13+ / 0-)

    It's nice to see someone approach this topic without denial.

    I tried to go online to find a similar bear head...but when I searched “Big Bear Head” it gave me a San Diego craigslist ad entitled “Big Bear needs some quick head now” and then I just decided to never go on the internet again.--Jenny Lawson

    by SouthernLiberalinMD on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 05:24:13 AM PST

  •  despite the threadjacker, a good diary, thanks (10+ / 0-)

    Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell. --Edward Abbey

    by greenbastard on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 06:11:07 AM PST

  •  you must admit that spying on EACH OTHER'S (6+ / 0-)

    citizens is an elegant way to get around the law.

    Not sure what the solution for that is.  So much of our traffic on the internet crosses one or another international border that it would be difficult to prevent the other four of the five eyes from observing that traffic.

    In some ways, I'm even more worried about the corporate side of things.  Google acquired a facial recognition company a few years ago:

    http://www.pittpatt.com/

    and an assessment of the purchase:

    http://misener.org/...

    Since the internet never forgets, if you want privacy of any kind for your kids, it would be a good idea to NEVER POST THEIR PICTURES ANYWHERE.  And I don't care what your Facebook 'privacy' settings are.

    But back to the mutual spying and trading problem -- I'm stumped.  This genie may not go back in the bottle.

    Happy little moron, Lucky little man.
    I wish I was a moron, MY GOD, Perhaps I am!
    —Spike Milligan

    by polecat on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 06:57:06 AM PST

  •  paranoia (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Sharkmeister

    Fear is the darkroom where negatives are developed.

    Perhaps everything terrible is, in its deepest being, something helpless than wants help from us.

    by Fabienne on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 07:47:27 AM PST

  •  At the risk of repeating myself/// (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Sharkmeister

    from the slides, it's pretty obvious who the targets of this particular operation are, and it's unlikely the targets are posting at DailyKos.

    I wonder if they made their 2013 roll-out deadline?

    Also, at the risk of tu quoque this is more the US and Britain catching up with what China and other more centralized governments have been doing for some time.

    •  There are a few celebrity bloggers/activists... (6+ / 0-)

      ...that post or crosspost their work here. And, we already know, to some extent, that they are targeted by law enforcement, at least in some ways. BUT, NOT necessarily in any way that would affect this community. (Contrary to one particular troll, upthread, who just makes things up in his head and then attributes those thoughts to others, as if they're facts; then keeps repeating same. Apparently, that's their m.o.)

      "I always thought if you worked hard enough and tried hard enough, things would work out. I was wrong." --Katharine Graham

      by bobswern on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 09:12:33 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Great diary, Bob! (5+ / 0-)

    But I really have to wonder what Lenny Flank thinks about all this.

  •  It's a very creepy slideshow, (4+ / 0-)

    focusing as it does on techniques of deception, manipulation, and distortion of truth, as if these were entirely acceptable, if not laudable practices.

    It reeks of "left-hand path" strategies, or what mystically-inclined folks refer to as black magic, as opposed to white magic. It emphasizes trickery, sleight-of-hand, dissimulation, covert hypnosis and so on, without regard for anything approaching simple honesty, or integrity.

    The slick, corporate-style presentation of these ethically-dubious schemes makes them seem all the more sinister. The question arises, exactly whom are they intended to target, and to what end?

  •  I wonder what Kos thinks now? (4+ / 0-)

    Is it still only white privilige?

    None are so hopelessly enslaved, as those who falsely believe they are free. The truth has been kept from the depth of their minds by masters who rule them with lies. -Johann von Goethe

    by gjohnsit on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 09:37:13 AM PST

  •  Great, now DC Comics can sue the FK out of them. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bobswern, cybrestrike

    The Brits may have James Bond, but we have Joe Pesci and he would respond to GCHQ thusly ...

    "I'd rather stick an Ice Pick in your fucking skull than give you the correct time, you motherfucker you."

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