Skip to main content

A currently reclisted diary claims that Neo-Nazis and fascists are in charge of Ukraine.

I'd like to offer "supporting" evidence for that claim with some videos.

If that video hasn't convinced you, then here's one that will surely confirm the Kremlin's propaganda!:

Poll

Is Ukraine currently run by fascists and Neo-Nazis?

35%33 votes
40%37 votes
11%11 votes
11%11 votes

| 92 votes | Vote | Results

EMAIL TO A FRIEND X
Your Email has been sent.
You must add at least one tag to this diary before publishing it.

Add keywords that describe this diary. Separate multiple keywords with commas.
Tagging tips - Search For Tags - Browse For Tags

?

More Tagging tips:

A tag is a way to search for this diary. If someone is searching for "Barack Obama," is this a diary they'd be trying to find?

Use a person's full name, without any title. Senator Obama may become President Obama, and Michelle Obama might run for office.

If your diary covers an election or elected official, use election tags, which are generally the state abbreviation followed by the office. CA-01 is the first district House seat. CA-Sen covers both senate races. NY-GOV covers the New York governor's race.

Tags do not compound: that is, "education reform" is a completely different tag from "education". A tag like "reform" alone is probably not meaningful.

Consider if one or more of these tags fits your diary: Civil Rights, Community, Congress, Culture, Economy, Education, Elections, Energy, Environment, Health Care, International, Labor, Law, Media, Meta, National Security, Science, Transportation, or White House. If your diary is specific to a state, consider adding the state (California, Texas, etc). Keep in mind, though, that there are many wonderful and important diaries that don't fit in any of these tags. Don't worry if yours doesn't.

You can add a private note to this diary when hotlisting it:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from your hotlist?
Are you sure you want to remove your recommendation? You can only recommend a diary once, so you will not be able to re-recommend it afterwards.
Rescue this diary, and add a note:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from Rescue?
Choose where to republish this diary. The diary will be added to the queue for that group. Publish it from the queue to make it appear.

You must be a member of a group to use this feature.

Add a quick update to your diary without changing the diary itself:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary?
(The diary will be removed from the site and returned to your drafts for further editing.)
(The diary will be removed.)
Are you sure you want to save these changes to the published diary?

Comment Preferences

  •  When did Nationalism become Neo-Nazi? (8+ / 0-)

    I missed something.

    Happy little moron, Lucky little man.
    I wish I was a moron, MY GOD, Perhaps I am!
    —Spike Milligan

    by polecat on Thu Mar 06, 2014 at 10:02:11 AM PST

  •  the Reddit IAMA in full (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    HoundDog, Lawrence, ER Doc

    at this here link.

    I am Paul Sonne, Moscow correspondent for The Wall Street Journal. Happy to take your questions Putin, Russia, Crimea, Ukraine or anything else!
    and POTUS speaks shortly, too.

    TRAILHEAD of accountability for Bush-2 Crimes? -- Addington's Perpwalk.

    by greenbird on Thu Mar 06, 2014 at 10:07:31 AM PST

  •  What % of US elected officials are Tea Partiers? (12+ / 0-)

    You know: Hard core racist, misogynist, homophobes who espouse hateful, regressive policies? I'd hate for the rest of the world to judge America and American government solely by the actions and values of these neo-Klansmen.

    Ho'oponopono. To make things right; restore harmony; heal.

    by earicicle on Thu Mar 06, 2014 at 10:09:07 AM PST

    •  Right Sector The Great Ukrainian Reconquista (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      HoundDog, limpidglass, whizdom

      seems to be a cause of concern:

      http://www.youtube.com/...

    •  Tea Party members do not hold (7+ / 0-)

      the posts of Vice President, Secretary of Defense, or Attorney General. Nor do we have a weak, unelected head of government who was installed after the last head of government was forced out under highly chaotic and violent circumstances.

      In the Ukraine, Svoboda/Pravy Sektor members hold the equivalent of all of those posts--and several more besides.

      Andriy Parubiy...oversees national security for the nation having previously served as security commandant during the anti-government protests in Kiev.

      Parubiy was the founder of the Social National Party of Ukraine, a fascist party styled on Hitler's Nazis, with membership restricted to ethnic Ukrainians.

      The Social National Party would go on to become Svoboda, the far-right nationalist party whose leader Oleh Tyahnybok was one of the three most high profile leaders of the Euromaidan protests - negotiating directly with the Yanukovych regime.

      Overseeing the armed forces alongside Parubiy as the Deputy Secretary of National Security is Dmytro Yarosh, the leader of the Right Sector - a group of hardline nationalist streetfighters, who previously boasted they were ready for armed struggle to free Ukraine...

      The new Deputy Prime Minister Oleksandr Sych is a member of the far-right Svoboda party...

      Svoboda now controls the ecology and agricultural ministry with Andriy Mokhnyk, the deputy head of Svoboda, running ecology and Ihor Shvaika as agriculture minister...

      Svoboda member Oleh Makhnitsky is now acting prosecutor general...

      The initial actions of the interim government have included forcing making Ukrainian the only official language of the nation and making moves to remove a law which forbids "excusing the crimes of fascism".

      I don't judge Ukrainians by the actions of Ukrainian nationalists and fascists. What I am worried about is those fascists being given such prominent positions of power in the new Ukrainian government--with every prospect of swelling their parliamentary ranks and cabinet representation after the next election. That is a clear and present danger, and one which European/American adventurism set loose.

      "In America, the law is king." --Thomas Paine

      by limpidglass on Thu Mar 06, 2014 at 10:30:56 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Seriously, Nazis, WTH? (14+ / 0-)

    What's the deal with all these Nazi's? Will they never give up?

    And, how spooky is it to have both Lawrence, and Lawrence Lewis commenting in the same place? I always suspected there might be two different authors involved here.

    Que Twilight Zone music: "Too, dee, doo, duu, Too, dee, doo, duu."

    "Seriously, Folks, WTH?" - ("What the Heck? "h/t Joan McCarter, Seriously, Florida. WTF?)

    by HoundDog on Thu Mar 06, 2014 at 10:12:24 AM PST

    •  Yeah, these are the first "Neo-Nazis" that I've (8+ / 0-)

      ever seen that I'd like to hang out and go have a beer with.

      "A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle" - Mohammed Nabbous, R.I.P.

      by Lawrence on Thu Mar 06, 2014 at 10:15:09 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Well, I suppose in the spirit of tolerance and (0+ / 0-)

        understanding maybe we should do this once, or so. But, at some point we need to draw a line in the sand, and say, "We've had just about enough of these sheenanigans, Nazi's!, Just knock of this crap right now!"

        "Seriously, Folks, WTH?" - ("What the Heck? "h/t Joan McCarter, Seriously, Florida. WTF?)

        by HoundDog on Thu Mar 06, 2014 at 10:31:29 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Speaks volumes about you then (5+ / 0-)

        These people are scum. And your apologia is appalling. These people go out and beat up leftist. The are antisemitic and racist.

        If knowledge is power and power corrupts, does that mean that knowledge corrupts?

        by AoT on Thu Mar 06, 2014 at 10:50:39 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  You very obviously did not watch the videos.... (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          HoundDog, David54

          "A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle" - Mohammed Nabbous, R.I.P.

          by Lawrence on Thu Mar 06, 2014 at 10:51:33 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  I think he was snarking AoT, as in Putin's (4+ / 0-)

          claims that the Ukraine is being overrun by neo-Nazi's is bogus propaganda. That's why I joked back.

          Putin is grandstanding to manipulate Russian public opinion.

          "Seriously, Folks, WTH?" - ("What the Heck? "h/t Joan McCarter, Seriously, Florida. WTF?)

          by HoundDog on Thu Mar 06, 2014 at 10:58:42 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Svoboda is a fascist party (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            limpidglass, HoundDog

            And despite the fact that Russia is spreading propaganda about all of automaidan being fascist that doesn't change the fact that Svoboda is really in fact fascist.

            The West is now pretending like there isn't a serious risk of a fascist takeover in Ukraine, either Russian fascists, in the east, or Ukrainian fascists in the west.

            If knowledge is power and power corrupts, does that mean that knowledge corrupts?

            by AoT on Thu Mar 06, 2014 at 11:05:19 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Ooops, sorry, my bad. I hadn't checked the links. (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              AoT, limpidglass, Onomastic

              Sheessh.  How could there be a serious neo-Nazi party in the 21th century? Something doesn't compute for me. I guess I'm out of tough. How sad.

              "Seriously, Folks, WTH?" - ("What the Heck? "h/t Joan McCarter, Seriously, Florida. WTF?)

              by HoundDog on Thu Mar 06, 2014 at 11:11:33 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  There are a number of them (9+ / 0-)

                in various parts of Europe, and they are groups we should keep an eye on. I mean, frankly, there are Neo-Nazis here in CA, they were certainly around where I grew up in the central valley, but they're not a remotely legitimate political entity here. In many parts of Europe, particularly poorer areas, they are.

                On the other hand, I expect the coalitions that come out of popular uprisings to have all sorts of elements involved and occasionally handling some power during transitions (and even after -- lots of parliaments in places like Greece or Italy have a handful of actual elected fascists, here and there.) Some folks who are most active in organizing demonstrations etc tend to come to some power afterwards, and folks with more extreme views tend to be among them especially in reaction to government crackdowns on protests.

                That may or may not translate into future problems. I think it's cause for concern. I don't think it's cause for rejecting the entire interim leadership as fascists and neo-nazis, though.

                •  I agree with this (4+ / 0-)

                  I'm just constantly frustrated by people claiming there's no fascists as part of the government. The reason the Russian propaganda is what it is is because of the fascist involvement.

                  If knowledge is power and power corrupts, does that mean that knowledge corrupts?

                  by AoT on Thu Mar 06, 2014 at 11:26:26 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  I get constantly frustrated on "both" ends, really (12+ / 0-)

                    The Russian propaganda works partly because it has enough grains of truth to provide some legitimacy to the argument. They're just grains, though. Calling the interim leaders fascists and nazis who are supported by the US is awfully convenient, and the kindest thing I can call it is a "broad brush."

                    And most of all at the moment, I'm frustrated by our need to constantly make every event in Ukraine all about the US, either about US interests or about US meddling.

                    Sometimes, people really do have popular uprisings. Ukrainians are themselves, not just puppets or clients for the US and Russia.

                    I'm finding just as much ugly US-centrism in the "everything is US hegemony, including everything happening on the ground in Ukraine!" as in the US-centrism that actually supports what hegemony or meddling there really is.

                    Many things appear to be true all at the same time, even some semi-contradictory things. That's normal in complex events. I'm not sure why that's so hard for people to discuss on the internets, but we wind up all polarized into particular little boxes of yes/no.

                    •  This (6+ / 0-)

                      Captures my views pretty well

                      I get even more frustrated by those who use this broad brush to whitewash Putin's actions

                    •  It's a multi-polar world now (5+ / 0-)

                      and some people just can't wrap their head around that. There can be fascists in Russia and Ukraine! There can be a popular uprising that rejects the pro-Russia party and deposes the government and that doesn't mean that a majority support being a part of the EU. It can be a little about our interests and a lot about Ukraine, EU, and Russian interests.

                      It's easy to end up in boxes of yes/no when people expect you to be in one of those boxes.

                      If knowledge is power and power corrupts, does that mean that knowledge corrupts?

                      by AoT on Thu Mar 06, 2014 at 12:17:02 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Wanted to give a tip o' the hat to you (4+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        AoT, Onomastic, Kristin in WA, whizdom

                        Because I think that you and I in particular have often wound up on what appear to be the opposite sides of things at first glance. But neither of us is a box, and we've often managed to talk through the complicated parts in ways that feel illuminating, at least to me, and I hope to you, too.  

                        I appreciate that discussion very much, and what's funny is that in the end, I very often agree with you far more than I don't. Not because anybody "won," but because I suspect we weren't far off to begin with, and we allowed plenty of space to clarify points of view and hone in on the points we're actually trying to make.

                        I wish it happened more here. I haven't been around here much for a while, mostly because it often feels like the boxes win out, and everything becomes just more yes/no noise. It's really reassuring to see it not always work that way, so thank you for that.

                    •  Couldn't agree more. (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      Spit

                      Thank you.

                      There is something in us that refuses to be regarded as less than human. We are created for freedom - Archbishop Desmond Tutu

                      by Onomastic on Thu Mar 06, 2014 at 02:14:22 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                •  Thanks for clarifying Spit. I've known about (3+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Spit, AoT, Onomastic

                  neo-Nazis but have always assumed they were way out fringe folks mostly in prison, with shaved heads, and hideous tatoos on the scalps and face. Not anyone people would take as a serious part of real society, or even outside of the maximum security cell block.

                  "Seriously, Folks, WTH?" - ("What the Heck? "h/t Joan McCarter, Seriously, Florida. WTF?)

                  by HoundDog on Thu Mar 06, 2014 at 11:33:47 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  LOL (5+ / 0-)

                    though some did have some strange tattoos, they were also a good chunk of my high school. :P

                    Most were more young and dumb and angry than anything, and grew up eventually, though. The others probably are in prison somewhere, yes.

                    The picture in Europe is often much different than the tattooed skinhead guy picture here (though there are certainly those, too.) A lot of these movements there wind up focusing most on exactly the same sort of anti-immigrant sentiment that we see here, though there it's largely focused on, say, the Turks, or the Libyans, or...

                    •  Yeah. In the 1990s Neo-Nazis were easier to (3+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      Spit, HoundDog, Onomastic

                      recognize.  Now they cloak themselves as hooligans, don't necessarily have shaved heads or wear doc martins, etc.

                      From what I can see in Germany, however, they are slowly but surely shrinking in strength.

                      "A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle" - Mohammed Nabbous, R.I.P.

                      by Lawrence on Thu Mar 06, 2014 at 11:56:14 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                  •  They are mostly fringe folks in Europe, too. (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Spit, HoundDog

                    And that's a good thing.

                    "A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle" - Mohammed Nabbous, R.I.P.

                    by Lawrence on Thu Mar 06, 2014 at 11:57:49 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                •  Bingo! (5+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  AoT, Spit, HoundDog, Onomastic, Lawrence

                  Cause for concerns, but the whole sale dismissal of the protests and interim government is wrong.

            •  Do you understand (0+ / 0-)

              The meaning of the word fascist?  Also, you do understand that Putin is a big fan of fascism himself, right?

              •  Well, there are definitely fascist elements (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                whizdom

                in Svoboda.

                Gotta agree with you that the most worrisome European fascism currently is in Russia, though.

                "A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle" - Mohammed Nabbous, R.I.P.

                by Lawrence on Thu Mar 06, 2014 at 11:59:56 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

            •  All nazis are fascists, but not all fascists (7+ / 0-)

              Are nazis.  Fascism really focuses on a strident nationalism and binding of corporate and state power. There are a lot of fascist parties in the world, but they don't all share nazism's odious racial views

              Thought I should elaborate

        •  Lol (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Lawrence, Onomastic

          They are sooo antisemitic they installed a Jewish prime minister.  I know, they are obviously doing some kind of eleventy dimensional chess thingy on behalf their corporate paymasters or something.   Yes, Putin say "nazi" and you leap to the conclusion they must be antisemitic and racist.  What a hoot!

  •  Yeah, nothing to see here (6+ / 0-)

    The far right Svoboda party, whose leader has denounced the "criminal activities" of "organised Jewry" and which was condemned by the European parliament for its "racist and antisemitic views", has five ministerial posts in the new government, including deputy prime minister and prosecutor general. The leader of the even more extreme Right Sector, at the heart of the street violence, is now Ukraine's deputy national security chief.

    "When dealing with terrorism, civil and human rights are not applicable." Egyptian military spokesman.

    by Paleo on Thu Mar 06, 2014 at 10:18:59 AM PST

    •  Yep, and they're all guarding a Jewish (6+ / 0-)

      prime minister and other Jewish members of government.

      Makes sense!

      "A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle" - Mohammed Nabbous, R.I.P.

      by Lawrence on Thu Mar 06, 2014 at 10:20:57 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Nice apologia for racists and fascists (6+ / 0-)

        Pathetic.

        If knowledge is power and power corrupts, does that mean that knowledge corrupts?

        by AoT on Thu Mar 06, 2014 at 10:31:17 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  they're not stupid enough to assassinate him (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        HoundDog, AoT, Wreck Smurfy

        at least not until they are in a position where they have consolidated power and can do so with impunity.

        Are they in such a position? Not yet. But giving them so many cabinet posts, and whitewashing their nature, is a big boost for them.

        They may not even need to kill the PM to be rid of him. Elections are coming up, and it's not clear the current PM will even last that long--politically speaking.

        The ultra-right now controls the police forces, so brownshirts and police are surely being integrated as we speak. Ultra-nationalist provocations and voter intimidation attempts will be ignored by the authorities. They may be engaging in violence against Russian troops to provoke a more muscular Russian response, which would surely swell their numbers.

        So I expect the vote for Svoboda to increase significantly in the next elections. After that, the government may look completely different.

        The more numbers they have, the more easily they'll be able to gridlock the political process and give themselves a chance to seize power. Their idol, Hitler, taught them how to do that.

        "In America, the law is king." --Thomas Paine

        by limpidglass on Thu Mar 06, 2014 at 10:43:17 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Stating that Svoboda's idol is Hitler is outright (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Just Bob, polecat

          propaganda.

          The one person who probably is an idol to some of them is Stepan Bandera:

          The OUN intended to take advantage of the retreat of Soviet forces from Ukraine. Some members thought that they had found a new powerful ally in Nazi Germany to aid them in their struggle against the Soviet Union. However, just days after the proclamation and the Nazi invasion of Lviv, the leadership of the newly formed government was arrested and sent to concentration camps in Germany, and on July 6, 1941[1] for his refusal to rescind the declaration, Bandera was arrested and imprisoned by the Nazis and not released until September 1944. Also, within two years of the declaration, the Nazis had imprisoned or killed 80% of OUN-B leadership.[2][3][4] Soviet authorities authorised the KGB to assassinate Bandera in Munich, West Germany, on 15 October 1959
          Svoboda will probably end up turning into a center-right party, much like so many nationalist parties in Europe did.

          "A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle" - Mohammed Nabbous, R.I.P.

          by Lawrence on Thu Mar 06, 2014 at 10:50:23 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  you mean this Stepan Bandera? (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Paleo, AoT
            Stepan Bandera, a World War II-era Nazi collaborator who led the pro-fascist Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists (OUN-B). Lviv has become the epicenter of neo-fascist activity in Ukraine, with elected Svoboda officials waging a campaign to rename its airport after Bandera and successfully changing the name of Peace Street to the name of the Nachtigall Battalion, an OUN-B wing that participated directly in the Holocaust. “’Peace’ is a holdover from Soviet stereotypes,” a Svoboda deputy explained.

            Revered by Ukrainian nationalists as a legendary freedom fighter, Bandera’s real record was ignominious at best. After participating in a campaign to assassinate Ukrainians who supported accommodation with the Polish during the 1930’s, Bandera’s forces set themselves to ethnically cleanse western Ukraine of Poles in 1943 and 1944. In the process, they killed over 90,000 Poles and many Jews, whom Bandera’s top deputy and acting “Prime Minister,” Yaroslav Stetsko, were determined to exterminate. Bandera held fast to fascist ideology in the years after the war, advocating a totalitarian, ethnically pure Europe while his affiliated Ukrainian Insurgent Army (UPA) carried out a doomed armed struggle against the Soviet Union. The bloodbath he inspired ended when KGB agents assassinated him in Munich in 1959.

            I find it quite repugnant that you're whitewashing actual fascist collaborators.
            Svoboda will probably end up turning into a center-right party, much like so many nationalist parties in Europe did.
            "Within two months we will have pushed Hitler so far in the corner that he'll squeak."

            --Franz von Papen, after brokering the deal that made Adolf Hitler Chancellor of Germany

            "In America, the law is king." --Thomas Paine

            by limpidglass on Thu Mar 06, 2014 at 11:02:42 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  Incredible (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            limpidglass

            You're just an apologist for a fascist party.

            And Hitler was Bandera's idol until things starting going south for the Nazis:

            The OUN emulated many of Nazi attributes, including
            the OUN salute: raising the right arm while saying “Glory to the Heroes” in greeting.  Much like German National Socialism, the integral nationalist ideology, to which both
            Dutch historian Karel Berkhoff has emphasized that Antisemitism was an important component in the ideology of both OUN factions and that “wartime documents with regard
            to leading Banderites show that during the German invasion, they wanted the Jews, or at the very least Jewish males, killed, and that they were willing to participate in the process.” . . . .  The OUN was well coordinated with the Nazi German leadership. . . .  Its declaration of independence stated that it would “cooperate closely with National Socialist Greater Germany, which under [the] Führer Adolf
            Hitler is creating a new order in Europe and the world and will help the Ukrainian people to liberate itself from the Muscovite occupation.”  In a biographical statement handed over to the German authorities on 15 July the same year, Iarslav Stets’ko, the 29-year-old selfproclaimed head of the OUN(b) Ukrainian government, stated that “I … support the destruction of the Jews and the expedience of bringing German methods of exterminating Jewry to
            Ukraine."

            "When dealing with terrorism, civil and human rights are not applicable." Egyptian military spokesman.

            by Paleo on Thu Mar 06, 2014 at 11:07:50 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  And the OUN was a reaction to Stalin engineering (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Just Bob

              the death by starvation of millions of Ukrainians.

              Are you so surprised that many Ukrainians made the mistake of thinking that the enemy of my enemy is my friend after that happened?  It was a rotten era in that part of the world.

              They paid for that mistake in thinking, as I pointed out above.

              And yes, they probably will turn into a center-right or moderate nationalist party at some point, just like lots of former German Nazis drifted into center right parties after WW2, parties that now accept things like gay marriage and cultural diversity.

              And they will likely never have power in Ukraine outside of some kind of coalition.

               

              "A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle" - Mohammed Nabbous, R.I.P.

              by Lawrence on Thu Mar 06, 2014 at 11:17:35 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Yeah, excuse them for participating (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                limpidglass

                often with great enthusiasm, in the genocide of the Jews.

                "When dealing with terrorism, civil and human rights are not applicable." Egyptian military spokesman.

                by Paleo on Thu Mar 06, 2014 at 11:24:59 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

              •  unbelievable! (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                AoT, Paleo

                you're openly apologizing for fascists! So it's all Stalin's fault Bandera was a racist who wanted an ethnically pure Ukraine? What other rationalizations do you have in your pocket, I wonder?

                Bandera held fast to fascist ideology in the years after the war, advocating a totalitarian, ethnically pure Europe while his affiliated Ukrainian Insurgent Army (UPA) carried out a doomed armed struggle against the Soviet Union
                It wasn't just an alliance of convenience with the Nazis. Bandera deeply believed in ethnic cleansing--and continued to do so after the war.

                The Nazis turned on Bandera when he wanted to declare Ukraine an independent state allied with Germany. He had no disagreement with their racist, fascist ideology.

                Really, the best thing you could do for your position is to stop talking, because the more you open your mouth, the deeper the hole you dig.

                "In America, the law is king." --Thomas Paine

                by limpidglass on Thu Mar 06, 2014 at 11:32:13 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  I'm not apologizing for anyone and I don't favor (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  earicicle, Just Bob

                  Svoboda at all, nor do the vast majority of Ukrainians.

                  However, if you don't understand the historical context of what is happening in Ukraine, you won't understand the current situation there much, either.

                  Central Europeans, especially Ukrainians and Poles, and especially their Jewish citizens, went through absolute hell in WW2, at the hands of Nazis, Stalinists, Stalinist-collaborators, Nazi-collaborators.

                  That has left deep, deep wounds to this day.  You have an older generation that often still is caught in the shadows of the past while you have a younger generation that wants to move away from that.

                  Svoboda is an expression of that past, as are the national chauvinist tendencies in Russia.  In the context of a pluralistic European Union, however, there is not much space for that kind of thinking, and it certainly is not popular amongst the vast majority of the EU.  And that is where young Ukrainians want to go.

                  And that is what is clear in the videos that I posted.

                  "A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle" - Mohammed Nabbous, R.I.P.

                  by Lawrence on Thu Mar 06, 2014 at 11:50:22 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  whatever (3+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    AoT, whizdom, Paleo

                    Your discussion of the career of Bandera left out many key details about his fascist ideology, and then you tried to spin it as all Stalin's fault. It's quite clear what you were trying to do, your frantic backpedaling notwithstanding.

                    All the tearful pleading you're making about how hard life is in the Ukraine doesn't excuse Svoboda's anti-Semitism, xenophobia, and ethnic nationalism. It is what it is, a party of skinheads. And giving skinheads power very rarely makes them less thuggish.

                    In the context of a pluralistic European Union, however, there is not much space for that kind of thinking, and it certainly is not popular amongst the vast majority of the EU.
                    The EU is riddled with euroskeptic, xenophobic, ultra-nationalist sentiment, fueled by austerity, the chaotic nature of EU integration of the former Eastern Bloc nations, and the indifference of European leaders.

                    The EU doesn't give a shit about the Golden Dawn setting up shop in Greece. Golden Dawn, Attaka, Jobbik--those are the children of European austerity. Even the Front National is polling over 33% these days in France, this in the heart of supposedly wealthy and civilized Western Europe.

                    EU democracy? Would that be like British democracy, where a Tory-led coalition government is imposing austerity on the UK? Would that be like Spanish democracy, where they voted out a Socialist austerity government only to get a right-wing austerity government that's set women's rights back forty years? Or Italian democracy where they've had three governments in a row that failed to win an electoral majority? Or German democracy where the main opposition party has to enter a coalition with the electoral winners in order to form a government? This is healthy European democracy?

                    The Ukraine is a powder keg, its economy is shot and the populace deeply divided. It'll take more than pep talk about the big, happy EU family to fix what's wrong with it.

                    "In America, the law is king." --Thomas Paine

                    by limpidglass on Thu Mar 06, 2014 at 12:26:25 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  And you are in full-fledged Kremlin propaganda (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      justintime

                      mode with this:

                      It is what it is, a party of skinheads. And giving skinheads power very rarely makes them less thuggish.

                      I've had many a physical altercation with Neo-Nazi skinheads and you have no clue what you are talking about here.

                      And if you don't understand the effect that mass murder under Stalinism had on Central and Eastern Europe, then I can't help you.

                      So feel free to worry your heart out about a minor nationalist party in non-threatening Ukraine, while full-fledged national chauvinism takes full control of the nuclear-armed, aggressive Russia next door.

                      "A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle" - Mohammed Nabbous, R.I.P.

                      by Lawrence on Thu Mar 06, 2014 at 03:27:08 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

          •  They've been around since 1995 (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            protectspice

            Why would they suddenly become center right when they never have been before. That doesn't make any sense unless you're just blind to the fact that fascist parties do in fact exist and can gain power.

            If knowledge is power and power corrupts, does that mean that knowledge corrupts?

            by AoT on Thu Mar 06, 2014 at 11:15:37 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  They already have become more moderate. (0+ / 0-)

              And the accession process to the European Union will force them to moderate more.

              "A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle" - Mohammed Nabbous, R.I.P.

              by Lawrence on Thu Mar 06, 2014 at 11:20:57 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Unless the anti-euro parties (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                whizdom

                win yet another election, like they've been doing.

                If knowledge is power and power corrupts, does that mean that knowledge corrupts?

                by AoT on Thu Mar 06, 2014 at 11:31:02 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  They are not popular amongst young people (0+ / 0-)

                  throughout most of Europe, so I doubt that they will make much headway.

                  20th century dogma doesn't mesh well with the open world that most young Europeans experience when growing up in the 21st century.

                  "A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle" - Mohammed Nabbous, R.I.P.

                  by Lawrence on Thu Mar 06, 2014 at 11:38:12 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Well, they won two years ago (0+ / 0-)

                    And again 4 years before that.

                    Of course, the EU loves nothing more than voting again and again until they get a bare majority once.

                    If knowledge is power and power corrupts, does that mean that knowledge corrupts?

                    by AoT on Thu Mar 06, 2014 at 11:40:50 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

  •  The people who are arrested and beat up by the new (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    limpidglass, HoundDog, Wreck Smurfy

    fascists in power don't laugh it off like you seems to do.

    •  Are you talking about people like these?: (4+ / 0-)

      Oh wait, that's the band Pussy Riot being whipped by Kossack militias in Sochi, site of Putin's grand Winter Olympic Games...

      "A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle" - Mohammed Nabbous, R.I.P.

      by Lawrence on Thu Mar 06, 2014 at 10:31:18 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  You realize that there are fascists (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        limpidglass, whizdom

        in more than one country, right?

        Both Russia and Ukraine has ultra-nationalist parties.

        If knowledge is power and power corrupts, does that mean that knowledge corrupts?

        by AoT on Thu Mar 06, 2014 at 10:53:54 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Also, there are pro-Russian and pro-Ukraine (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        wu ming

        fascist in Ukraine. Your simplistic understanding of politics based on the narrow US political spectrum is terribly apparent.

        If knowledge is power and power corrupts, does that mean that knowledge corrupts?

        by AoT on Thu Mar 06, 2014 at 10:56:02 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Of course there are both pro-Russian and (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Just Bob, kalmoth

          Pro-Ukrainian national chauvinists in Ukraine.

          Yes, yes, my understanding of politics is all based on "the narrow US political spectrum".  That's what living in a city in the center of Europe and having mostly European friends does to you...

          Try not to personally attack people so much in the future.

          "A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle" - Mohammed Nabbous, R.I.P.

          by Lawrence on Thu Mar 06, 2014 at 11:07:05 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  No, Fascists. (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            limpidglass, burlydee

            For fuck sake, this apologia for fascists is pathetic. Have you seen the symbol Svoboda started out with as their logo?

            Do you know anything about them except all of this apologia for fascism that's trying to counter Russian propaganda? Because there is Russian propaganda, but that doesn't mean there isn't fascism.

            If knowledge is power and power corrupts, does that mean that knowledge corrupts?

            by AoT on Thu Mar 06, 2014 at 11:09:48 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Sorry, I don't think that Svoboda is a (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              justintime, kalmoth

              full-fledged fascist party.  They are national chauvinists.

              There are fascists in Ukraine, just like in any country dominated by whites, but that doesn't make Svoboda a full-fledged fascist party.

              Their views are messed up, as are the views of any nationalist party, and Ukraine will have to keep them under control, but their meager previous election results indicate that they will not dominate.

              And the vast majority of Ukrainians against Yanukovych are not right wing, but regular people of all stripes, which is the point of this diary, no matter how much you want to make it about Svoboda and fascists.  

              "A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle" - Mohammed Nabbous, R.I.P.

              by Lawrence on Thu Mar 06, 2014 at 11:35:37 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  They idolize fascists and nazi collaborators (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                limpidglass, kalmoth

                and they are openly anti-semitic.

                And the vast majority of Ukrainians against Yanukovych are not right wing, but regular people of all stripes,  which is the point of this diary, no matter how much you want to make it about Svoboda and fascists.
                Which is why you mention neo-nazis in the title? But it's not about neo-nazis at all. Oh no. It's not about papering over the power that a fascist party in Ukraine has. Because that might jibe a tiny bit with Russian propaganda and everything Russia says is completely untrue.

                What you've written is a facile piece of propaganda that ignores the real complexities of the situation. If that's what you were going for then congrats.

                If knowledge is power and power corrupts, does that mean that knowledge corrupts?

                by AoT on Thu Mar 06, 2014 at 12:27:04 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Nope, what I have written is a response to the (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  kalmoth

                  earlier, facile piece of propaganda that was reclisted and that pretty much verbatim is a repeat of Kremlin propaganda:

                  The Guardian: Western Expansion Aims Helped Put Fascists And Neo-Nazis in Power in Ukraine
                  http://www.dailykos.com/...

                  With the posted videos I have given people an opportunity to see the Ukrainians themselves and hear from them directly.

                  At this point I could care less whether you like it or not.

                  You still haven't actually said anything about the content of the videos....

                  "A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle" - Mohammed Nabbous, R.I.P.

                  by Lawrence on Thu Mar 06, 2014 at 03:20:26 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

        •  Was this intended to be ironic? (0+ / 0-)

          Since clearly the newfound love for Russia seems to be pretty strongly grounded in such a frame

      •  Cossack, not Kossack (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        whizdom, AoT, Lawrence, Just Bob

        Unless they're paid cognitive disruptors.

        warning: snark probably above

        by NE2 on Thu Mar 06, 2014 at 11:11:36 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Fascism, Russia and Ukraine . . (11+ / 0-)

    by Timothy Snyder:

    http://www.nybooks.com/....

    Read this for a deep analysis of Putin's propaganda and the MSM's bullshit smothering the truth about the Ukraine.

    [Dimitri] Kiselyov [the host of the most important talk show in Russia] is quite open about the Russian media strategy toward the Maidan: to “apply the correct political technology,” then “bring it to the point of overheating” and bring to bear “the magnifying glass of TV and the Internet.”
    Why exactly do people with such views think they can call other people fascists? And why does anyone on the Western left take them seriously? One line of reasoning seems to run like this: the Russians won World War II, and therefore can be trusted to spot Nazis. Much is wrong with this. World War II on the eastern front was fought chiefly in what was then Soviet Ukraine and Soviet Belarus, not in Soviet Russia. Five percent of Russia was occupied by the Germans; all of Ukraine was occupied by the Germans. Apart from the Jews, whose suffering was by far the worst, the main victims of Nazi policies were not Russians but Ukrainians and Belarusians. There was no Russian army fighting in World War II, but rather a Soviet Red Army. Its soldiers were disproportionately Ukrainian, since it took so many losses in Ukraine and recruited from the local population. The army group that liberated Auschwitz was called the First Ukrainian Front.
    [. . .]
    What does it mean when the wolf cries wolf? Most obviously, propagandists in Moscow and Kiev take us for fools—which by many indications is quite justified.
    More subtly, what this campaign does is attempt to reduce the social tensions in a complex country to a battle of symbols about the past. Ukraine is not a theater for the historical propaganda of others or a puzzle from which pieces can be removed. It is a major European country whose citizens have important cultural and economic ties with both the European Union and Russia. To set its own course, Ukraine needs normal public debate, the restoration of parliamentary democracy, and workable relations with all of its neighbors. Ukraine is full of sophisticated and ambitious people. If people in the West become caught up in the question of whether they are largely Nazis or not, then they may miss the central issues in the present crisis.

    In fact, Ukrainians are in a struggle against both the concentration of wealth and the concentration of armed force in the hands of Viktor Yanukovych and his close allies. The protesters might be seen as setting an example of courage for Americans of both the left and the right. Ukrainians make real sacrifices for the hope of joining the European Union. Might there be something to be learned from that among Euroskeptics in London or elsewhere? This is a dialogue that is not taking place.

    •  That likely is one of the best and insightful (5+ / 0-)

      reads on the situation in Ukraine.

      "A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle" - Mohammed Nabbous, R.I.P.

      by Lawrence on Thu Mar 06, 2014 at 10:34:31 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  That link is broken. n/t (0+ / 0-)

      If knowledge is power and power corrupts, does that mean that knowledge corrupts?

      by AoT on Thu Mar 06, 2014 at 10:58:28 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Thank you. I remarked back on the 18th that we (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      justintime, Onomastic

      need a new vocabulary. Little did I know. Far right wing communists?

      I suspect much of this has deep roots in history. The entire region has suffered from ethic cleansing time after time. The repression in eastern Europe goes back to the days of Galicia.

      The new state borders had cut Galicia off from many of its traditional trade routes and markets of the Polish sphere, resulting in stagnation of economic life and decline of Galician towns. Lviv lost its status as a significant trade center. After a short period of limited investments, the Austrian government started a fiscal exploitation of Galicia and drained the region of manpower through conscription to imperial army. The Austrians decided that Galicia should not develop industrially but remain an agricultural area that would serve as a supplier of food products and raw materials to other Habsburg provinces. New taxes were instituted, investments were discouraged, and cities and towns were neglected.
      Please read the entire article.

      Left doesn't mean left and right doesn't mean right. George Orwell was right. Again, far right wing communists?

      I think we need to agree on our terms and definitions before we can have any meaningful discussion.

      I'm a Vietnam Era vet. I'm also an Erma Bombeck Era vet. When cussing me out and calling me names please indicate which vet you would like to respond to your world changing thoughts.

      by Just Bob on Thu Mar 06, 2014 at 11:37:03 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  The plot thickens. Now I've discovered we not only (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    polecat, wu ming

    have a Lawrence, a Lawrence Lewis, but also a Jed Lewisson.

    No wonder we've had so much confusion around here. I keep thinking I'm following your posts only to discover I'm not.

    So, now which one of you is the real one?

    "Seriously, Folks, WTH?" - ("What the Heck? "h/t Joan McCarter, Seriously, Florida. WTF?)

    by HoundDog on Thu Mar 06, 2014 at 10:49:30 AM PST

  •  I have never held most of the (9+ / 0-)

    Kossacks pushing this Ukrainian Nationalist = Neo-Nazi meme.

    But, I can't believe they appear to take Pukin's claims at face value. It seems to be a disorder along the lines of Obama Derangement Syndrome. The Ukrainians aspire to maintain their national independence and to enjoy the fruits of modern capitalism that they see in Western Europe. This makes them neo-nazis and pawns of our 'oligarchs'.

    The protesters/revolutionaries come from many different social and political backgrounds. No doubt, some are neo-nazis. Some are nationalists, some are opposed to the endemic corruption of the old regime, some hate the Russians, some are married to one.

    This eclectic mix is par for the course in terms of social change. Successful revolutions must bring together many disparate elements in a society. When the riot police begin to shoot at them, killing and wounding hundreds of protesters, the many differences which could pull the protest movement apart are forgotten. It becomes protestors versus versus riot police. No-one cares if the people carrying them to the hospital are from the right political party.

    That is how you get a transition government where the Neo-Nazis support and protect the Jewish President, The riot police are no longer the enemy. Now it is the Russian invasion in Crimea. When these threats no longer exist, the revolutionaries will probably return to bickering among themselves, but, as long as there is a threat to the movement, they will stay together to fight the common foe.

    I think that many folks here at DKos could learn a lot from the Ukrainians. We  waste far too much time fighting among ourselves and not nearly enough focused on our common enemies.

    Thanks for the diary Lawrence. I loved the clip of people dancing in Kiev before the protests began. Those young people didn't look much like Neo-Nazis to me.

    Here's my take on it - the revolution will not be blogged, it has to be slogged. - Deoliver47

    by OIL GUY on Thu Mar 06, 2014 at 10:56:11 AM PST

  •  I still think Putin is the biggest fascist (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    AoT, Lawrence, Just Bob, limpidglass

    of the bunch.  

    "I'm a progressive man and I like progressive people" Peter Tosh

    by Texas Lefty on Thu Mar 06, 2014 at 11:13:17 AM PST

  •  Your poll results are reassuring. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Matt Z, Lawrence

    As I argued in the other diary, if the current Ukrainian government were made up of fascists they would welcome a shooting war instead of telling their people in Crimea to resist non-violently.

    The Stars and Bars and the red swastika banner are both offerings to the same barbaric god.

    by amyzex on Thu Mar 06, 2014 at 11:17:58 AM PST

    •  Not if they knew that they would lose (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      limpidglass, sponson, wu ming

      to Russia. A hot war with Russia would be incredibly stupid and they would get destroyed.

      There are fascists in the government, Svoboda is the name of the party. The entire government is not fascist, not was the entire protest movement fascist. The heavy violence started once the fascist groups got involved, or perhaps the fascist groups got involved once the heavy violence started. It isn't entirely clear.

      Either way, dismissing the existence of fascists in the government is flat wrong.

      If knowledge is power and power corrupts, does that mean that knowledge corrupts?

      by AoT on Thu Mar 06, 2014 at 11:30:22 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  It is considerably more complicated (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        justintime, Lawrence, FG, Just Bob

        Than that.   You might want to look at Svoboda's actual platform and their relation to neo-nazis (hint: the current leader pushed them out of the party and got rid of the nazi inspired logo and platforms some years ago). Strident nationalists with a pro market orientation?  Sure.  Dripping in racism and anti-semitism?  That is much less clear these days.  As has pointed out, if you try to boil them down as merely racist anti Semites you'll have misunderstood what you are looking at.   I wouldn't vote for them, but they're a lot more similar to the Tea Party than to the America Nazi party, for example  we have such parties as close allies (see the Israeli coalition for example).  It is a pretty complex picture.

        It bears watching but efforts to smear the whole protest movement is off base (which I am glad you disavow)

        •  How many tea partiers firing guns (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          limpidglass

          At government forces?  How many tea partiers have been showing up at anti-government protests in the US and using violence in the streets?  How many have overthrown an elected, if unpopular, government lately?

          •  if the overthrow was at the hands (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Lawrence

            of Svoboda solely you'd have a point. But it wasn't, the people showing up at those protests and, arguably, using violent tactics were from a much wider range of political positions.

          •  Tea Party (0+ / 0-)

            If our government started shooting protesters indiscriminately in the streets, I'm sure there would be many Americans of all stripes in the streets using violence against the authorities, and no one would care what political ideology the person next to them happened to hold. I know I would proudly stand shoulder-to-shoulder with Tea Partiers if such a thing came to pass no matter how idiotic I happen to think their political views are.

  •  It is certainly complicated (6+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    FG, sponson, AoT, amyzex, limpidglass, protectspice

    but this is certain.
    The US and EU were on the ground in Ukraine, providing resources and support to the anti-government coalition, including the rightists in the coalition.

    And somebody totally blew the assessment of the obvious question of what Russia would do if the revolt succeeded.

    Not a great episode for American diplomacy or our Intelligence agencies, or our intelligence.

    •  I just want to note (0+ / 0-)

      That in a few weeks, perhaps a few months, some of you won't be attacking the Words of Whizdom so much, when you realize this person had a point.  So now, attack away and ridicule me for not liking it that extreme right-wingers of a type we would try to jail in the US, have been put into positions of power in a weak, unstable country, as the result of a largely US-financed and sponsored overthrow of an unpopular but democratically elected government.  Without the US thinking through the consequences.

      •  Ironically (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        AoT

        the Svoboda and the even further right allies, emphatically don't want to join the EUro zone either.

         And now they control the ministries of defense, Interior and economics.

        I accept that sometimes we have to associate with unsavory actors in pursuit of national objectives.  I get that.  
        I don't endorse either side, I certainly do support the aspirations of the citizens of Ukraine to enjoy personal liberty, opportunity and security, but as an American, I haven't heard a satisfactory explanation why we were so involved, so deep, at such risk, to ourselves, and to the Ukrainian people.  

        what compelling national interest caused us to mess around in Ukraine?

  •  Ukrainian Jewish leaders comment on Svoboda: (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    LordMike, Spit, Lawrence
    Ukraine’s Chabad-affiliated chief rabbi Moshe Azman explained the situation: “They know anti-Semitism is preventing the good relations they seek [...] But Svoboda is not a uniform entity and I’m not sure the leaders control the rank and file.”

    Yaakov Bleich, Ukraine’s chief rabbi, said “Svoboda is an enigma in many ways,” calling it “a right-wing, nationalist party with anti-Semitic elements in it.”

    Jewish leaders in Ukraine believe Svoboda’s success in the 2012 Ukrainian parliamentary election owes more to frustration with the establishment than to its anti-Semitic statements.

    Ihor Kolomoyskyi, president of the United Jewish Community of Ukraine, stated in 2010 that the party has clearly shifted from the far-right to the center.

  •  Anyone notice that the thugs are mostly guys? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    AoT, Lawrence

    Seems to be a common thread, around the world. I think we need a global rethink of masculinity.
    We also need a sh*tload of jobs. Globally.

    You can't make this stuff up.

    by David54 on Thu Mar 06, 2014 at 12:47:54 PM PST

    •  Ha (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Lawrence

      I actually agree with you, but that discussion is much longer and even more fraught with peril than this one.

      •  I think that ultimately the media and the global (0+ / 0-)

        social media will function as a mirror and men will start to examine their own behavior and attitudes.
        Less likely to be manipulated for others' greed and lust for power and other geopolitical objectives.

        Not that women can't be Lucretia Borgias', too.

        You can't make this stuff up.

        by David54 on Thu Mar 06, 2014 at 02:35:22 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I would very much like to agree (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          AoT

          but I've been waiting for that honest look in the mirror for an awfully long time, and the truth is that I think there's a backlash against it or any number of other criticisms of the masculine ideal and how it plays into all sorts of bigger-picture things -- not just here, also in Russia and many other parts of the world -- that means we're in worse shape for that discussion than we were 20 years ago.

          I try not to just become a bitter old gender-warrior, but that is one uphill fight for me these days.

          I agree with everything else you've said, and I admire your hope. In fact, hope sincerely that you're right.

          •  I think these things "ripen. This course is as bad (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Spit

            for men as it is for women and children and civilization in general. The pendulum will swing back.
            But we do need jobs and every individual needs opportunity. This is another consequence of the economic trajectory of the world, to a great degree.

            You can't make this stuff up.

            by David54 on Thu Mar 06, 2014 at 06:21:50 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

      •  I think that ultimately the media and the global (0+ / 0-)

        social media will function as a mirror and men will start to examine their own behavior and attitudes.
        Less likely to be manipulated for others' greed and lust for power and other geopolitical objectives.

        Not that women can't be Lucretia Borgias', too.

        You can't make this stuff up.

        by David54 on Thu Mar 06, 2014 at 02:35:36 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Misrepresentation by Svoboda critics: (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Lawrence
    Overt attempts to use anti-Semitism as a propaganda weapon against the EuroMaidan movement have been noted, and reports of widespread anti-Semitism dismissed by authoritative analysts, historians and human rights activists.  Ukrainian media associated with the Party of Regions, the Communist Party of Ukraine, and Russophile groups contribute to a trend to demonize Svoboda as a "Nazi menace."  Olszański writes that voters from southern or eastern Ukraine, especially those poor, less educated, or attached to the "Soviet historical narrative," are hostile to the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists, and easily convinced that Svoboda is the inheritor of Nazi invaders, a threat to peace, and that the Party of Regions should be voted for as the only force capable of stopping a ‘brown revenge’.   According to political scientist Taras Kuzio, the label "nationalist" is "disastrous" in Russian-speaking regions of Ukraine and used as an epithet by political opponents.  Attempts to present all opposition to the ruling regime as “nationalist” and all nationalists as “fascists” date back to Soviet era.  Kuzio writes that former president Viktor Yushchenko's decision to allow Svoboda to participate in the Ukrainian opposition coalition allowed opponents to brand them as "anti-Semitic" and "following in the footsteps" of Nazi collaborators."  Svoboda leader Tyahnybok's 2004 "Muscovite-Jewish mafia" comment  was widely circulated on the three TV channels controlled by the head of the Presidential Administration, Viktor Medvedchuk: State Channel 1, 1+1 and Inter,  however, Kuzio notes that Ukrainian authorities of the Party of Regions also make anti-Semitic comments, but these are not publicized.  In contrast, Svoboda's popularity has been attributed to popular dissatisfaction with xenophobic, anti-Ukrainian, and Russian supremacist policies pursued by the Party of Regions since early 2010.
    Svoboda party leader defends:
    According to party leader Oleh Tyahnybok, Svoboda is not an ‘extremist’ party; he said that "depicting nationalism as extremism is a cliché rooted in Soviet and modern globalist propaganda".  He also stated that "countries like" Japan and Israel are fully nationalistic states, "but nobody accuses the Japanese of being extremists".  According to Tyahnybok, the party's view of nationalism "shouldn’t be mixed with chauvinism or fascism, which means superiority of one nation over another", and that its platform is called “Our Own Authorities, Our Own Property, Our Own Dignity, on Our Own God-Given Land”.
  •  My goodness... (3+ / 0-)

    ...how so many of us just eat up the Russian propaganda lock stock and barrel.  I guess many are just too young to remember the Soviet "press" back during the cold war--they were kind of a Soviet Fox News.  Everything they said was laughably false.  The current russian news is even worse, if you can believe it.  Gary Kasparaov, the former chess champion, talks about it in his twitter feed.  Their stories are comically funny.  I can't believe that instead of people laughing at how obviously untrue they are, people believe them.  Even russian citizens know better!

    "I know you cannot force people to care. Ukraine is far away for many, all have own problems. But even if cynical, realize problem will grow. It isn't only people like me, raised in a dictatorship, who don't want it to happen to others"-Gary Kasparov

    by LordMike on Thu Mar 06, 2014 at 01:27:19 PM PST

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site