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Let me acknowledge right off the bat that the attitude and world view I'm about to share with the readers are not things every person is able to embrace, for many (obvious) reasons, the main one being people's innate instinct for survival, and acceptance.  However, for me (personally), I can't imagine any other way to live life.

Also, I'd like to think that I've never been too dogmatic or rigid about my views to the point where they become untenable.  For example, (as I've written before) I served in the military and received an honorable discharge, I've never been fired from a job, and (thank the goddess) I've never been in a physical altercation as an adult (although growing up that's a different story).

Let me start with this... I know that life is (or can be) tough and that in a society such as ours where the ethos of competitiveness (for average folks) and oligarchical predation (for the ruling class) can lead to some sort of dog-eat-dog world, one must find ways to at least survive, understanding that we don't live in a just and perfect world.

Having said that, I've come to the conclusion that at least to me (personally), as long as I have shelter (and that could be a space with some nice square footage to a tiny room, or a trailer), food, water, clothing and health, and of course, love (some say that's all you need), I'm happy.

And throughout life, I've experience both extremes... From poverty, brief periods of homelessness (mainly as an adventurous youth), very violent neighborhoods, to six figure salaries, nice sport cars, extensive traveling and nice hotels (and great meals).  Sometimes back and forth...

But through it all I've been very consistent with a couple of things, which point to what I value most, and my world view: For as far back as I can remember I've always felt I had a very solid understanding of who I am as a person, what my beliefs are when it comes to justice, fairness, honesty, compassion, work, leisure, and ethics, and therefore have never, ever given a shit about what people thought about me, or about trying to impress anybody, or trying to fit in.  That means that I've never sought the validation of others in order to feel whole as a person.

Again, insofar as I've had friends, good (or no so good) jobs, relationships, social interactions, I've always felt I've done it on my terms, which means I haven't had to compromise my values in a quest to fit in.

And as I reflect, as sometimes one does when one reaches middle age, I can't think of no better example of freedom than being able to speak one's mind in the face of unfairness, injustices, obfuscation, manipulation, or wrongdoing without fear.

I've done it in every environment I've been, always.  I've spoken plainly and fearlessly to CEO's, supervisors and bosses who had the power to retaliate; I've spoken plainly and without fear (as board member) of organizations I thought were not serving the membership well; I've spoken plainly and fearlessly when I was in the military...  And I've spoken plainly and fearlessly any time I perceived that people were trying to deceive, to manipulate, to use other people by pretending to be one thing, by talking a good game, but doing something completely different, as I consider those folks kind of sociopathic.

I can't lie and claim that taking that posture is easy, and that I haven't gotten a few (figurative) black eyes in the process.  But what I can say is that if there have been negative consequences for daring the speak the truth without fear, they have been well worth it.  And I can also say that any negative consequences pale in comparison with both, the satisfaction of calling a spade a spade, and inspiring others to do the same.

Throughout the years I've spoken to many people about these issues, and one thing I can tell you is that when people feel forced to accept and condone injustices, false narratives, inconsistencies, just because they feel that's what they have to do to survive and fit in, they end up paying for it with life-long emotional scars.  They may be able to keep the nice job and car, but deep down they know they had to sell their soul in exchange.

Again, I do try to be practical and survive (and if possible thrive) just like anybody else, but when it comes to compromising my values and principles and ethics in exchange for acceptance and benefits, that's something I'm not willing to do, and that's why wherever I am, I will always call out the bullshit when I see it.

The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it.

-- Albert Einstein

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Comment Preferences

  •  I'm pretty much the same way, I call out a liar, (10+ / 0-)

    cheater, thief, phony nice folks who do harm to others On Purpose. Believe in the Golden Rule and try to be a good human being every day. Hate seeing so much harm and pain done to so many human beings. And bullies for their cause are Horrible and seem not to realize how harmful their actions are.

    I think some folks think the same but demand we do it their way or else, which makes absolutely no sense to me at all.

    "Life without emotions is like an engine without fuel."

    "It's said that the honest man has nothing to hide. Not true. The honest man has to hide himself, because honest men are the prime targets of those who lie."

    by roseeriter on Wed Mar 12, 2014 at 11:11:58 AM PDT

  •  Thanks Ray (15+ / 0-)

    The block quote below is an excerpt of a portion of a comment I wrote on another diary.  It is my way of operating.  If I am wrong, I have no problem admitting it, but I refuse to compromise my basic ethical code.  The only person I have to live with 24/7 is me and I want to look in the mirror and be happy with the person looking back.

    Each one of us has to look within ourselves to determine what we will accept from our party and our politicians.  I expect better than what we have been getting and I resent being told to embrace the pre-ordained suck and be grateful for the crumbs that fall from the corporatist table. I will continue to follow my inner compass here even when it may not be popular.

    "I don't want to run the empire, I want to bring it down!" ~ Dr. Cornel West "It was a really naked declaration of imperialism." ~ Jeremy Scahill on Obama's speech to the UN

    by gulfgal98 on Wed Mar 12, 2014 at 11:17:04 AM PDT

  •  I never speak my mind (7+ / 0-)

    I always go along to get along especially out here on dailykos.  

    May you have a blessed day, Ray.

    I sing praises in the church of nonsense, but in my heart I'm still an atheist, demanding sense of all things.

    by jbou on Wed Mar 12, 2014 at 11:21:18 AM PDT

    •  First of all, that's not accurate, and second of (7+ / 0-)

      all, why are you being so nice?  Are you messing with me?

      :-)

    •  I don't know how to respond to this. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Ray Pensador

      I wonder if you are speaking tongue in cheek?   AoT's comment seems to indicate you may be.  But I don't know you.  But if you mean what you say, I must respond with  -- my sig line says it all!

      "The only thing needed for evil to succeed is for good people to do nothing." Hannah Arendt

      by dharmasyd on Wed Mar 12, 2014 at 06:02:51 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I'm a bad man (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        dharmasyd, Ray Pensador

        And like my boy Rustin says "World needs bad men. We keep the other bad men from the door"

        I sing praises in the church of nonsense, but in my heart I'm still an atheist, demanding sense of all things.

        by jbou on Wed Mar 12, 2014 at 06:30:33 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I am a Good Man. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          serendipityisabitch

          For the record:

          I have always stood up to every injustice, no matter how small, the instant I perceive it.

          I have refused to compromise my values, in any way, in any economic or social transaction.  Instead, I have succeeded in inculcating my values in everyone with whom I have ever had a personal or professional relationship.

          And I am a patient teacher. I take the time to listen, to respond, to gently correct, to mentor, to divert the stream in the direction it needs to go. Water wears down the stone.  Whether the Grand Canyon is 60 million years old or 6 million matters not, compared to my patience and persistence in carving a new world for us all.

          Hypocrisy?  I can smell it across time zones.  I challenge it, instantly.  I eliminate hypocrisy the way scrubbing bubbles eliminate toilet odor.

          I can hear the whispers of those who undermine and destroy the progressive movement through hotel walls, even when I'm merely driving by on the expressway.

          And I see what you did there, bad man.  I see the mockery, the sarcasm, the shallowness of a shallow man.  I see more than you can possibly know.

          Dozens follow me. Well, maybe half a dozen.  But thousands, even millions more would follow me too, if they were not entrapped in false consciousness.

          My skin glows with the greenish patina of a Greek bronze.

          I am a Good Man.

          “If the misery of the poor be caused not by the laws of nature, but by our institutions, great is our sin.” Charles Darwin

          by ivorybill on Fri Mar 14, 2014 at 09:00:01 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Hi Ray, (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    kharma, Ezekiel in Exile, Joieau

    Don't do anything about it?   I do get the message and nothing is all one way.  But I'm a great believer in live and let live as long as it is no skin off of me and mine's nose.    Doesn't pay to be opinionated and judgmental at the same time.   Then one starts writing hateful rants and tripping over one's nose.   Take care.  

    I will not vote for Hillary. What we need is a Democrat in the White House.

    by dkmich on Wed Mar 12, 2014 at 11:22:05 AM PDT

    •  Huh? Really, I can't make sense of what you (6+ / 0-)

      wrote there.   How one writes a diary and avoids sharing opinions?  How one does not comment on things, concepts, etc.?

      What does "hateful rants" has to do with the content of this diary?

      Maybe you can try to say what you mean clearly.

      •  I dont' think this is the hateful rant he's (7+ / 0-)

        referring to.  Good diary Ray, never let intimidation shout you down.  Speak your mind.

        If debugging is the process of removing bugs, then programming must be the process of putting them in.

        by kharma on Wed Mar 12, 2014 at 11:42:54 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  I'm sorry Ray. (4+ / 0-)

        karma is right.   I'm not referring to you, this diary or any other diary that you've written.  

        I was trying to point out that speaking your mind is a good thing, but expecting it to change/influence anything or anyone is not necessarily a good thing.    Have you ever given anyone advice they took and it turned out to be a disaster?    I believe my thoughts are right for me.  I don't know if my thoughts/opinions are right for someone else.  It is why I never try to change anyone's mind.    

        Sorry for the confusion, Ray.   I had tipped and rec'd this diary, and I shouldn't have assumed you would know what I was talking about.  

        I will not vote for Hillary. What we need is a Democrat in the White House.

        by dkmich on Wed Mar 12, 2014 at 11:52:04 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  No problem... I've been writing and reaching out (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          kharma, lostinamerica, Joieau, dkmich

          for years and you won't believe how many people have told me I've helped hem see things differently.  Likewise, I've been greatly impacted by others as well, and that has helped me learn and evolve and even change some preconceptions.

          Also, when people lash out in rage with insults, etc., many of them may be reacting similar to how religious fundamentalists react when their world view is challenged; it gets deeply emotional for them... But many times that's part of a process they go through towards realizing that they have been lied and manipulated.

          It's like talking to someone who just bought what they thought was a very expensive watch, and paid thousands of dollars, and you telling them that the watch is fake and only costs $5 bucks.

          That's been my experience...

      •  I think he's talking more about (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Ray Pensador

        what is euphemistically termed "brutal honesty." The kind that when the nice lady asks if this dress makes her look fat, the answer is "yeah, you look like a regular tub of lard!"

        I've known many people. Most of them honest, though I've known a few pathological liars and a couple who were genuinely evil. And a couple of "brutally honest" people who were so brutal and so judgmental that nobody could stand to be around them for any length of time. One of them took it so far as to muddy the crossover frequency into genuinely evil.

        One can be honest without the brutality. I think that's what dkmich was alluding to. And not aimed at you. I'm pretty sure s/he'll correct me if I'm wrong. That's fine.

        There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves. - Will Rogers

        by Joieau on Wed Mar 12, 2014 at 01:30:24 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  You are the very model of a modern superhuman man (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    virginislandsguy, Hey338Too
    and therefore have never, ever given a shit about what people thought about me, or about trying to impress anybody, or trying to fit in
    What, never?
    No, never.
    Never?
    Well, hardly ever...
    And I've spoken plainly and fearlessly any time I perceived that people were trying to deceive, to manipulate, to use other people by pretending to be one thing, by talking a good game, but doing something completely different, as I consider those folks kind of sociopathic.
    Um, I believe you've just retroactively called out a large number of individual commenters in your previous diaries as "kind of sociopathic". You know, the ones you've accused of commenting in bad faith (plus additional variants of the same remark)? Want to reconsider?

    At least half the future I've been expecting hasn't gotten here yet. Sigh.... (Yes, there's gender bias in my name; no, I wasn't thinking about it when I signed up. My apologies.)

    by serendipityisabitch on Wed Mar 12, 2014 at 11:44:43 AM PDT

    •  Hey, I've kept my promise about not pointing (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      kharma, lostinamerica, Joieau, Johnny Q, emal

      out trolls, bad-faith commenters, and dishonest political hacks in any of my diaries, and yet some insist in bringing it up again and again.  I even removed the troll-watch text box and the end of the diary warning people about logical fallacies and straw man arguments, and such.

      I'll stick to that, as promised.

      Regarding this:

      And I've spoken plainly and fearlessly any time I perceived that people were trying to deceive, to manipulate, to use other people by pretending to be one thing, by talking a good game, but doing something completely different, as I consider those folks kind of sociopathic.
      I've made no mention of Daily Kos trolls (if there were any) or even of Daily Kos at all in this broad commentary.

      Are you taking this personal, somehow?  I don't know why you would, but just know that this is no about you so don't feel anybody is calling you a sociopath.

      •  You didn't mean any of this to be about (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Hey338Too

        your previous comments on Daily Kos? Or have anything to do with your history here? Or have anything to do with anything to do with Daily Kos? Okay.

        However, since you posted it here, and your statement refers to your past comments in general, a large number of which have been made here, that's a really poor comeback.

        My statement, and question, still stand.

        At least half the future I've been expecting hasn't gotten here yet. Sigh.... (Yes, there's gender bias in my name; no, I wasn't thinking about it when I signed up. My apologies.)

        by serendipityisabitch on Wed Mar 12, 2014 at 12:12:09 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  It's been answered and my answer stands. I can't (5+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          kharma, lostinamerica, Joieau, Johnny Q, emal

          help it if you took the diary out of context and somehow thought it was about you.  That's your issue.

          •  No, it's been avoided, not very neatly. (3+ / 2-)
            Recommended by:
            Hey338Too, AnnetteK, Tomtech
            Hidden by:
            kharma, roseeriter

            HRing the diary for allegations of mental illness, as stated.

            At least half the future I've been expecting hasn't gotten here yet. Sigh.... (Yes, there's gender bias in my name; no, I wasn't thinking about it when I signed up. My apologies.)

            by serendipityisabitch on Wed Mar 12, 2014 at 12:21:18 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  you spoke your mind (3+ / 0-)

              Save your punishment. Namaste, grasshopper

              I sing praises in the church of nonsense, but in my heart I'm still an atheist, demanding sense of all things.

              by jbou on Wed Mar 12, 2014 at 12:23:10 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  LOL! That has to be one of the funniest things (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              lostinamerica, Joieau, emal

              I've seen here.  You mischaracterize the diary and then you HR the mischaracterization.

              Really, too funny.

            •  This comment is a lie and should be hidden. (3+ / 0-)

              If debugging is the process of removing bugs, then programming must be the process of putting them in.

              by kharma on Wed Mar 12, 2014 at 12:26:59 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Uprated to offset the BS HR... (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                serendipityisabitch

                ... Ray clearly states that people HE believes are "trying to deceive, to manipulate, to use other people by pretending to be one thing, by talking a good game, but doing something completely different" are "sociopathic".

                Looking through the bent backed tulips, To see how the other half lives, Looking through a glass onion - John Lennon and Paul McCartney

                by Hey338Too on Wed Mar 12, 2014 at 01:30:18 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  I agree kharma, she leads the Trolls group and (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                kharma, Ray Pensador

                is looking for trouble where there is none. Please stop serendipity!

                "Life without emotions is like an engine without fuel."

                "It's said that the honest man has nothing to hide. Not true. The honest man has to hide himself, because honest men are the prime targets of those who lie."

                by roseeriter on Wed Mar 12, 2014 at 02:56:01 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Unacceptable roseeriter (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Hey338Too
                  she leads the Trolls group
                  You know better than that.

                  If you think serendipity is a troll, let alone "Troll group leader" take it up with admin privately.

                  We should attack now when they'd least expect it #WarOnChristmas

                  by AnnetteK on Wed Mar 12, 2014 at 03:13:39 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  But he trolls publically (3+ / 0-)

                    If debugging is the process of removing bugs, then programming must be the process of putting them in.

                    by kharma on Wed Mar 12, 2014 at 03:15:27 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Click on her name she belongs to the group TROLLS (3+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      Ray Pensador, emal, kharma

                      as in troll hunter group. Public information.

                      Sometimes, Enough is enough, AnnetteK

                      "Life without emotions is like an engine without fuel."

                      "It's said that the honest man has nothing to hide. Not true. The honest man has to hide himself, because honest men are the prime targets of those who lie."

                      by roseeriter on Wed Mar 12, 2014 at 03:19:33 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Yes, enough is enough n/t (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        Hey338Too

                        We should attack now when they'd least expect it #WarOnChristmas

                        by AnnetteK on Wed Mar 12, 2014 at 03:20:31 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                      •  OK, I'm removing the HR, (0+ / 0-)

                        and taking your word for it that you meant the Kos group Trolls.

                        Not really buying it though.

                        We should attack now when they'd least expect it #WarOnChristmas

                        by AnnetteK on Wed Mar 12, 2014 at 03:23:50 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                      •  Uprating serendipity instead (2+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        serendipityisabitch, Hey338Too

                        because the HRs on her are just as oblique.

                        We should attack now when they'd least expect it #WarOnChristmas

                        by AnnetteK on Wed Mar 12, 2014 at 03:26:10 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  Doesn't seem fair. (4+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          Ray Pensador, emal, lostinamerica, kharma

                          If, as you say,

                          the HRs on her are just as oblique.

                          Then why did you uprate one and not the other?

                          It appears to be overly partisan in displaying a lack of desire to be even-handed. Some might even view it as hypocritical.

                          •  Actually, it goes beyond that. (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Ray Pensador

                            I suspect the HR and comment by serendipityisabitch probably violates several categories of site rules, so the HRs it received should not be characterized as "oblique," but as justified. I believe one of those categories is that the tip jar should not have been HR'd.

                            Conversely, characterizing the unwarranted HRs on the tip jar as "oblique" would be putting it in the mildest terms. Unjustified and wrong would be more accurate.    

                          •  Ray was in no danger (0+ / 0-)

                            of being put in hiddens, he had over twenty uprates and only two HRs.

                            Serendipity had two HRs and only one uprate when I saw it.

                            I had no desire to put a tip on Rays diary. If it had been a comment that had been wrongly HRd I may have uprated it.

                            For what its worth I don't agree with the HRs on the tip jar, I just don't like the diary enough to tip it.

                            I removed an HR on a comment that called a long time poster a troll because only in the widest terms could she be called a troll, in fact she belongs to a group who I believe keeps a look out for trolls.

                            I don't care much what anyone views me as, so there's that too.

                            We should attack now when they'd least expect it #WarOnChristmas

                            by AnnetteK on Wed Mar 12, 2014 at 06:21:29 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  In other words, I had it pegged right. (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Ray Pensador

                            I was hoping for better, but, sadly, this is the type of response I was kind of expecting.

                            It doesn't matter if you don't like the diarist or the diary or the comment or commenter; or whether it was a diary or a comment; or how many uprates a diary or comment has--the simple fact is it wouldn't have cost you anything for you to uprate the diary in order to be fair and just, and you would have been doing yourself and everyone else here a favor. There was a choice: either be a part of the problem, or be a part of the solution.

                            You state you don't agree with the HRs on the tip jar, which, given your tenure here, you should know is against site policy:

                            Hide rating a tip jar is not intended to be used against anyone but the most obvious and egregious of trolls. Meteor Blades
                            I'm sure you're also familiar with the HR rules by now:
                            2. Do not troll rate someone you are actively having a fight with.
                            3. Do not give positive ratings to people having fights in the comment threads.
                            5. Troll rate a trollworthy comment, regardless of who makes it.
                            Yet, you characterized the rationale of HRing of a comment that you yourself concede wrongly HR's the tip jar of a diary, and which also violated rule two, as somehow being "oblique," using that justification as insufficient cause for the HR and cause for you to counter the HR with an uprating.

                            Leaving aside that the HR'd comment in question might also legitimately be seen as DBAD for various reasons, your words and actions in regards to this make little sense.

                •  I lead the Trolls group. (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Hey338Too

                  Actually I'm just one of the group's admins. We don't have a leader.

                  Serendipityisabitch is one of our newest members but she has already received couple of scalps.

                  © Tomtech! My comments may not be used without my permission outside of the post which it is posted in..

                  by Tomtech on Wed Mar 12, 2014 at 07:18:25 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  I truly have no idea what that means! n/t (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    kharma
                    •  You used to talk about trolls in the abstract (0+ / 0-)

                      But there is a Dailykos Trolls group which has been identifying them. We, as individual members, follow that up with actions which have always led to the banning of the trolls.

                      For us trolls aren't an abstract group or individuals we feel we cannot name without causing problems for us. We hide their comments, hr their jars and inform the community as to why we believe a member is a troll.

                      I don't believe that any troll we have identified as such in our private comment threads has survived more than a few days.

                      It might have been advantageous for you to have learned more about the communities groups and which one dealt with trolls when you suspected that their were trolls among us. But alas I believe that bridge burned down when your posts led some of the group's members to suspect that you believed they were trolls.

                      © Tomtech! My comments may not be used without my permission outside of the post which it is posted in..

                      by Tomtech on Thu Mar 13, 2014 at 01:45:02 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  As I've committed to, I'm done pointing out (0+ / 0-)

                        behavior patterns that were obviously trollish.  Having said that, my perception of what you wrote is that there may be some lack of judgement going on given the fact that in this very diary site guidelines/rules were blatantly violated (as other commenters pointed out).

                        So at least this user doesn't see the Troll Group as a fair arbiter of trollish behavior.

                        Therefore I reject your entire characterization of the group and mission.

                        •  Test us (0+ / 0-)

                          Send us your evidence and be brief.

                          Please preface a message by citing this comment and remind the group that internal messages are confidential.

                          We deliberate and present evidence within private threads. If you begin a thread then you will be privy to all discussions in the thread.

                          Bring specific evidence and we will look at it along with the accused's entire history.

                          We never take action as a group, but each member is free to take action on their own.

                          The action normally consists of a member declaring that the condemned is a HOS (hide on sight) troll and then presenting the evidence without mentioning who brought the indictment.

                          That user, and others who consent, would then "HOSe" the troll as often as they can and comment why they are hiding the comment.

                          The autoban or a Dailykos employee finishes off the sequence by banning the accused.

                          Please send us a message with your privileged testimony and let the site operate as it has done countless times since Groups were created.

                          © Tomtech! My comments may not be used without my permission outside of the post which it is posted in..

                          by Tomtech on Thu Mar 13, 2014 at 11:28:56 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

            •  Really? Do you consider yourself hypocritical? (6+ / 0-)

              You're going pretty far out on a limb here to take offense at a statement that talks about how the diarist considers hypocritical behavior as being "kind of sociopathic."

              Personally, I might have just labeled it hypocrisy, and made the point that it can be harmful to society. Which amounts to exactly the same thing, anyway.

              What is really being described is not so much a person or a group of people, but a behavior pattern. And it isn't even being labeled sociopathic, but "kind of sociopathic." So, if someone describes something as "kind of crazy," are we supposed to take offense where no offense is intended and HR the person? If one were to say such a policy would be "nuts," does that merit a HR?

              The other problem with your allegation is that it presumes to read the author's mind and attribute a malicious intent to malign people here, which itself resulted in a type of slander. You compound that error with the HR by refusing to accept the author's word that it was not referring to anyone here. Essentially, you are asserting the diarist is a liar, which is not only slanderous, but HR worthy, if I'm not mistaken.

              There's being sensitive, and then there is being oversensitive. I felt your reaction fell into the latter category. The proper course here if you had a problem with the phrase was not making hasty assumptions and thinking the worst, but simply inquiring as to what was meant, and accepting the clarification given. It seems to me that in cases like this the diarist is the only existing authority as to meaning and intent, and that should be respected.

              Strange that you would parse one word out of such an innocuous diary to use as something in which to take exception. What makes it so ironic is that the diary is titled 'Free to Speak One's Mind.'

              I avoid passing out HR's for anything but the most egregious offenses, because I want people here to speak freely without worrying about the PC police. I also try to think the best of people, so I'm not going to attribute any malicious motive to you like trying to disrupt this diary out of acrimony or ideological differences. So I won't HR you. I do think you should remove your own unjust HR, however.

            •  Uncalled for. (8+ / 0-)

              First of all, it was not directed at you or any other site user; secondly of all, it's against site rules to hiderate someone with whom you're having a heated discussion. Thirdly of all, it's against site rules to bring up peoples' past history. If you don't like Ray, stay out of his diaries and write your own.

              "The cost of liberty is less than the price of repression." - W.E.B. Du Bois Be informed. Fight the Police State.

              by Eternal Hope on Wed Mar 12, 2014 at 04:11:40 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  Nothing is ever out of context (0+ / 0-)

            I'm from the Elizabeth Warren wing of the Democratic Party

            by voicemail on Wed Mar 12, 2014 at 12:44:18 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  Persecution complex? (5+ / 0-)

      It's all about you?  I'm pretty sure he was talking about his life, not this blog.

      If debugging is the process of removing bugs, then programming must be the process of putting them in.

      by kharma on Wed Mar 12, 2014 at 12:10:27 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Oh, for Pete's sake. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Ray Pensador, emal

      Stop trying to pick a fight. And your tip jar HR is highly questionable.

      There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves. - Will Rogers

      by Joieau on Wed Mar 12, 2014 at 01:33:24 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I don't know how you managed to go through (4+ / 0-)

    adult life without a physical altercation if you speak your mind in every instance where you feel an injustice is being perpetrated.
    I wish I had your way with words.
    I am at a point in this life where I'm facing a conundrum and maybe you can help.
    Something is happening in this country and I'm not sure what to do.
    I remember reading history about the Japanese internment camps and promising myself I would never let that happen while I'm able to speak out against it. Yet I've sat and watched people be "disappeared" and denied due process, using a law which is clearly unconstitutional.
    I am watching the systematic pillaging of our country by those so rich they answer to different laws and ignore others.
    The news is owned and disseminated by as few people as I have fingers.
    I don't know what or how to speak out in the face of these actions.
    Maybe you do?

    "If you tell the truth, you won't have to remember anything", Mark Twain

    by Cruzankenny on Wed Mar 12, 2014 at 11:59:30 AM PDT

    •  You just did, and very well, may I add. The most (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      lostinamerica, Joieau

      important thing we can do in times like this (which you so eloquently describe) is to speak truth to power, to expose the lies, to reach out to each other and find ways to unite in solidarity.

      This is all happening, right now, in real time; people are doing just that all across this country.

      Regarding avoiding physical altercations, speaking one's mind and calling a spade a spade doesn't have to be done in a abrasive, insulting, or provocative manner; it can be done softly but firmly.

  •  But the world is so replete with... (2+ / 0-)
    unfairness, injustices, obfuscation, manipulation, or wrongdoing...
    It seems nearly impossible to avoid exposure to such things. I am not sure how you can function without confronting them regularly. So how do you choose when to voice your displeasure? What is the defining threshold for you? Surely you don't respond to every injustice you encounter. And why not? Is it not to get along in some sense?

    The man who moves a mountain begins by moving away small stones. -Confucius

    by Malachite on Wed Mar 12, 2014 at 12:34:18 PM PDT

    •  I think I addressed that in the diary. I'm not (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Malachite, Joieau, denise b

      talking about every instance.  For example, on a day to day basis we may encounter rude people, ignorance, people who are just having a bad day, etc.

      Just like anybody else, I let a lot of that stuff go and try not to put myself into situations where a confrontation is likely, and also I try to de-escalate things if there have been some words exchanged, etc.

      I think we all do that just to be able to get through life.

      I have  criteria I use: I give people enough rope to determine if they are malicious, and so I don't evaluate situations based on single incidents of perceived transgressions.

      Once I determine they are malicious and engage in duplicity, lies, manipulation, on a regular basis then I take them on, and that can mean many different things.

      In work settings, I usually always address an instance of bullying or blatant disrespect, and I've seen many jaw-droppings throughout the years after I call out bullies (always calmly and in a measure way).

      Bottom line is that in every environment I'm in, once I see someone is systematically engaging in deception and manipulation (lying, taking credit for other people's work, etc.), I always take them on in a strategic manner.

      I've "counseled" many co-workers throughout the years: Never burst into a supervisor's or manager's office in an emotional state and complain about somebody being mean to you, etc. (although there are always exceptions, of course, depending on the seriousness of the transgression).  Instead, put them on a "program."  Expose what they are doing so decision-makers come to their own conclusion.

      But I know that's no easy to do because for the most part is hard for average folks to understand that some among them play these manipulative games...

      •  I asked because I struggle to decide where (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Ray Pensador, Joieau

        to focus my own energy. It wasn't really meant to challenge you or your diary in any way. It was intended to inspire an elaboration, which you have kindly offered. Thank you. I want to learn from others.

        Perhaps I was thinking more abstractly: not limited to people I literally interact with already in my life, but extending to people and circumstances that I learn about indirectly (through media, Daily Kos, etc). We are surrounded by injustice and nefarious actors. I think of all the issues raised here. If I am not actively engaging them to the full extent of my energy and resources, am I not acquiescing in some sense to the dominance and victory of corruption? Am I being lazy? Apathetic? Fearful of reprisal or loss of friends or comfort? I guess I am unsure just how to measure my efforts to confront injustice more broadly.

        The man who moves a mountain begins by moving away small stones. -Confucius

        by Malachite on Wed Mar 12, 2014 at 02:18:43 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Make whatever argument you want (4+ / 0-)

    But do not resort to saying that those who disagree with you have a mental illness.

    Time is of no account with great thoughts, which are as fresh to-day as when they first passed through their authors' minds ages ago. - Samuel Smiles

    by moviemeister76 on Wed Mar 12, 2014 at 01:37:06 PM PDT

    •  You didn't hear him say that. (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Ray Pensador, Joieau, lostinamerica
      And I've spoken plainly and fearlessly any time I perceived that people were trying to deceive, to manipulate, to use other people by pretending to be one thing, by talking a good game, but doing something completely different, as I consider those folks kind of sociopathic.
      I'm sorry, I don't get where he says that people are sociopathic just for disagreement.

      "The cost of liberty is less than the price of repression." - W.E.B. Du Bois Be informed. Fight the Police State.

      by Eternal Hope on Wed Mar 12, 2014 at 04:15:22 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  By definition (0+ / 0-)

        If someone is trying to deceive you in a conversation about politics, it is because they are not in agreement with you.

        Time is of no account with great thoughts, which are as fresh to-day as when they first passed through their authors' minds ages ago. - Samuel Smiles

        by moviemeister76 on Thu Mar 13, 2014 at 08:54:28 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  that isn't well reasoned (2+ / 0-)

          Supposing it is true that anyone who attempts to deceive you does not agree with you, it doesn't follow that anyone who disagrees with you is trying to deceive you.

          It's true that in the past, Ray has frequently questioned the good faith of many Kossacks with no apparent basis beyond disagreement. (Also, some folks have posted HRable comments in Ray's diaries, but that's another story.) It's hard not to construe that paragraph in his diary as an attempt to have things both ways: to allude to (and boast about) his past attacks on other participants without explicitly referring to those attacks. If Ray doesn't believe that some people here have been trying to deceive, to manipulate, etc., then a great many of his past posts — including his debate challenge to Markos about whether Daily Kos is "a fraud" — seem inexplicable.

          However, as far as I know, Ray is allowed to do that. I don't know that there is any solid precedent for HRing a tip jar on the basis that we can deduce that the diary means more than it says — even if that is true. I can imagine it happening in a case of pure snark: for instance, a diary that pointedly claimed that the moon landing official story is obviously ridiculous yet certainly beyond question could be HRed as CT. But I can barely imagine it happening in a case like this.

          Ray never pledged actually to respect anybody or to stop baiting good people who disagree with him. But only in extraordinary circumstances would unobtrusive baiting be HRable. If Ray's plain and fearless assaults are limited to shadow puppetry in dim light, let it be so.

          "Democracy is a political system for people who are not sure they are right." —E. E. Schattschneider

          by HudsonValleyMark on Fri Mar 14, 2014 at 04:21:26 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I bow to your excellent logic, and will remove (0+ / 0-)

            my HR.

            If Ray's plain and fearless assaults are limited to shadow puppetry in dim light, let it be so.

            At least half the future I've been expecting hasn't gotten here yet. Sigh.... (Yes, there's gender bias in my name; no, I wasn't thinking about it when I signed up. My apologies.)

            by serendipityisabitch on Fri Mar 14, 2014 at 05:18:38 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  I agree with everything (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            serendipityisabitch

            But your first sentence. He did not write about everyone who was disagreeing with him. Just those he thinks are deceiving him. Therefore, he is talking about people who are disagreeing with him.

            Time is of no account with great thoughts, which are as fresh to-day as when they first passed through their authors' minds ages ago. - Samuel Smiles

            by moviemeister76 on Fri Mar 14, 2014 at 09:25:44 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  we're somewhat talking past each other (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              moviemeister76

              Your HR apparently was based on this:

              But do not resort to saying that those who disagree with you have a mental illness.
              Yes, presumably the people Ray was boasting about having spoken his mind to, or against, or whatever did disagree with him. So, if your point was that he should never say that anyone (as distinct from everyone: ordinary English here is ambiguous) who disagrees with him is "kind of sociopathic," then I simply misread the point. However, I still don't see the basis for the HR — and maybe I'm mistaken to search for it in this comment. I don't think it's intrinsically HRable to say that one has dealt with people who seemed sociopathic.

              Certainly I agree with Eternal Hope: "I don't get where he says that people are sociopathic just for disagreement" (emphasis added).

              I think you're probably right that Ray throws the word around more freely than he should, but I don't see it as HRable here.

              "Democracy is a political system for people who are not sure they are right." —E. E. Schattschneider

              by HudsonValleyMark on Fri Mar 14, 2014 at 11:56:10 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  My main issue (2+ / 0-)

                Is that most people (other than trained psychiatrists) seem to have no real clue who sociopaths are. This is pretty much true for how people talk about mental illness in general. There is so much wrong information being bandied about, that people with actual diagnosed mental illnesses are often too nervous or scared to admit it because of this.

                Ray specifically called people who portrayed themselves as one type of person but actually are another as sociopaths. But here's the thing: that definition describes way more than sociopaths. In fact, it is such a general statement that it largely describes normal human behavior. Most people rarely say what they actually mean or even think. A lot of people portray themselves as one way in public but completely different in private. I am tired of people falling back on calling people who do things like that as having a mental illness because it creates an atmosphere in which those with mental illnesses are made to feel evil and despicable.

                And honestly, there has been a tremendous amount of research in the past five years or so that show that even sociopaths are not who we once thought they were. That's why I HR anyone here at the site who diagnoses people with a mental illness, which is what Ray did when he wrote he "considers them kind of sociopathic." I find that behavior irresponsible and cruel.

                Time is of no account with great thoughts, which are as fresh to-day as when they first passed through their authors' minds ages ago. - Samuel Smiles

                by moviemeister76 on Fri Mar 14, 2014 at 01:04:30 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  OK, I now see your point (2+ / 0-)

                  I often HR, and more often caution, people who use mental illness terms indiscriminately, depending on context. It's not uncommon for people in my field to reference Hofstadter's The Paranoid Style in American Politics, so that word is in a gray area. For me there are multiple contraindications to actually HRing for a vague assertion that he considers some people "kind of sociopathic," but I can see the point, especially now that Ray saw fit to elaborate.

                  Also, if I had thought of this diary in the context of Ray's diary "The Good Sociopath," I would have been more likely to construe it as armchair diagnosis — or if Ray had included that wikihow excerpt in the diary.

                  A fresh point of comparison came to mind. If someone wrote that s/he considers some people "schizophrenic," in the unfortunately common colloquial sense of having two sides to their personalities, then I would comment, but I would be unlikely to HR unless it was unambiguously framed as a medical reference and struck me as wildly irresponsible. Even then, I would urge edits to a diary before resorting to HRing the tip jar. But of course YMMV. I guess, if you're in that situation, explain yourself as well as you can.

                  "Democracy is a political system for people who are not sure they are right." —E. E. Schattschneider

                  by HudsonValleyMark on Fri Mar 14, 2014 at 06:53:52 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  I agree (2+ / 0-)

                    There is a ton of gray area, but I think it's just because what is socially acceptable one day is not so the next. I, myself, have used the term "schizophrenic" in the past, usually when discussing things in an academic setting. I would not do so today.

                    I've seen too many people scared to discuss mental illness to ever do that again. I have experienced the pain of being too scared to disclose it myself and have instead suffered a real impact at times because of it. And on the other hand, got up the courage to disclose it, and suffered very real and damaging consequences due to ugly stereotypes.

                    Languages evolve over time, obviously. I have had to change how I talk a few times in my life just based on someone telling me that something I said personally hurt them. And I do understand that I hold a fairly rigid line on this compared to most in this community, and really compared to most in society. Most people here only speak up if someone they actively dislike says it. But this is very important to me. So it's the hill I stand on.

                    Time is of no account with great thoughts, which are as fresh to-day as when they first passed through their authors' minds ages ago. - Samuel Smiles

                    by moviemeister76 on Fri Mar 14, 2014 at 08:53:53 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

          •  Plus (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            serendipityisabitch

            I reject the idea that anyone who deceives a person the way he describes has a mental illness.

            Time is of no account with great thoughts, which are as fresh to-day as when they first passed through their authors' minds ages ago. - Samuel Smiles

            by moviemeister76 on Fri Mar 14, 2014 at 09:27:52 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  There is no indication anywhere in this diary (0+ / 0-)

              where I'm alluding or implying that "anyone who deceives a person" has a mental illness.  Many people here have pointed that out and have pointed out that you were violating site guidelines by unfairly HR'ing my tip jar.

              There has never been in any of my writing any indication that I question the motives of users just because they disagree with me.  That has never happened.

              In the past I was pointing out patterns of behavior that clearly met web disruption tactics.  That's all.

              As I mention above, 3rdOption provided a pretty good summary (based on his observations) about this issue.

              •  Seriously? (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                serendipityisabitch
                And I've spoken plainly and fearlessly any time I perceived that people were trying to deceive, to manipulate, to use other people by pretending to be one thing, by talking a good game, but doing something completely different, as I consider those folks kind of sociopathic.
                Are you a psychiatrist with the amazing ability to diagnose someone over the internet as "kind of sociopathic"? If not, then you have no business doing so here.

                You were just complaining a while back that people were saying you have a mental illness, and I stood up for you then and said you were right to complain.

                Deception does not automatically equal some type of mental illness. A lot of rational people with no mental illness whatsoever pretend to be one thing but do something else.

                Time is of no account with great thoughts, which are as fresh to-day as when they first passed through their authors' minds ages ago. - Samuel Smiles

                by moviemeister76 on Fri Mar 14, 2014 at 09:51:38 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Nowhere in this diary am I asserting that I can (0+ / 0-)

                  diagnose people over the internet.  That is a blatant mischaracterization.  The diary is about first-hand experiences with real people, face to face...

                  I've done it in every environment I've been, always.  I've spoken plainly and fearlessly to CEO's, supervisors and bosses who had the power to retaliate; I've spoken plainly and without fear (as board member) of organizations I thought were not serving the membership well; I've spoken plainly and fearlessly when I was in the military...  And I've spoken plainly and fearlessly any time I perceived that people were trying to deceive, to manipulate, to use other people by pretending to be one thing, by talking a good game, but doing something completely different, as I consider those folks kind of sociopathic.
                  Also, there is plenty of research, articles, analyses, etc., that show that people who lie and deceive and manipulate without remorse are exhibiting sociopathic behavior.  In this diary I was commenting about my experiences (in real life) with that type of people.

                  Here's a good summary: How to Spot a Sociopath

                  A sociopath can be defined as a person who is at least 18 years old who has Antisocial Personality Disorder. This disorder is characterized by a disregard for the feelings of others, a lack of remorse or shame, manipulative behavior, unchecked egocentricity, and the ability to lie in order to achieve one's goals. Sociopaths can be dangerous at worst or simply very difficult to deal with, and it's important to know if you've found yourself with a sociopath, whether it's someone you're dating or an impossible coworker. If you want to know how to spot a sociopath, then you have to pay careful attention to what the person says or does.
                  Regarding deception, I don't know what to say about your apparent defense of it since that's not the way I operate.  I'm truthful, upfront, speak my mind, and do not play deceptive games with people... But I would say that there is a difference between instances where people feel the need to deceive, especially if it is not being done to harm somebody, and a behavioral pattern of lying and deception.
                  •  Oh hell no (4+ / 0-)

                    I 100% categorically reject your statement. You are not a psychiatrist. You may have thought you spotted some sociopaths thanks to your ridiculous wiki-how article, but that's just your opinion and your belief that you are somehow smarter than people specifically trained for this. Mental illnesses are no different than other medical problems. Do you go up to people and tell them their chest pains are obviously a case of an oncoming heart attack, or do you tell them to go to a doctor (God, I hope you choose the latter)?

                    You are not a trained psychiatrist. Psychiatrists and psychologists actually have to do a lot of work to tell if someone is a sociopath. They don't just read a wiki article and then are set.

                    Time is of no account with great thoughts, which are as fresh to-day as when they first passed through their authors' minds ages ago. - Samuel Smiles

                    by moviemeister76 on Fri Mar 14, 2014 at 10:17:01 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  yeah, that's a real wrong turn (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      moviemeister76

                      Ray is welcome to think that some people are "kind of sociopathic" — that could mean almost anything, or nothing — but "this I know, for a wiki tells me so" is not the way to go.

                      "Democracy is a political system for people who are not sure they are right." —E. E. Schattschneider

                      by HudsonValleyMark on Fri Mar 14, 2014 at 12:35:17 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

          •  This has never happened: (0+ / 0-)
            It's true that in the past, Ray has frequently questioned the good faith of many Kossacks with no apparent basis beyond disagreement.
            In the past I was referring to a persistent group of users who were visiting my diaries engaging in disruptive behavior, personal attacks, thread-jacking, and the like.

            Many, many other users have commented on that fact.  All anybody has to do (if they were so inclined) is to look at the comment thread of my last 40 or 50 diaries to see the pattern...

            Here's a take on this issue, by bobswern

            Well, this morning's NYT article confirms this......so, I'm sure many Kossacks will be turning on their email accounts to write you apology letters for their--and I say this sincerely--out-of-bounds, over-the-top abuse that they've delivered up to you in recent weeks. (Been there, done that on the receiving end of this community's abuse, too.) So, I'm sure Markos--in his ongoing efforts to lead-by-example for the rest of the community--is struggling for the proper words, right now as we blog, to put those similar sentiments into keystrokes in a highly-personalized email mea culpa just for you! (At least that's what I'm sure is happening in some alternate universe.)
            Here's a good explanation (based on observation) about trollish incidents vs. patterns, by 3rdOption. Here's another one.

            And of course, in this very diary many commenters made mention of the outrageous behavior by the users who HR'd my tip jar.

            So I argue that your post is a  mischaracterizaiton of my writing...

            Regardless I made a commitment to not mention the issue any longer because one, many readers are aware of it, and two, at some point it becomes counter-productive.

            Hence, I removed the troll warning text box at the end of my diaries sharing information with people about how to identify web disruption tactics.

            •  Yes, Ray, we understand. You have no vices, (0+ / 0-)

              only virtues. You are a paragon of rectitude, and you always follow through on the things you promise to do, no matter what the cost to yourself.

              You would not stoop so low as to mischaracterize someone else, or their work. so that we may take for granted that your characterization of a large group of people, whoever they may be, as "kinda sociopathic" was meant in the kindliest terms, and from your wide background in Psychiatry or Psychology.

              That was part of your clear-eyed and single vision of the real world, and it must be demonstrable that you could not have characterized them in any other way than attributing their behavior to mental illness, because otherwise you surely would have done so.

              That which offends you in others most obviously cannot be taken as offensive when you say it, for you are the standard to which we all must aspire, and what goes without saying for you must be seen to be that which we lower orders should eschew, not having your delicate ear for nuance.

              You are indeed the very model of a modern superhuman man.

              At least half the future I've been expecting hasn't gotten here yet. Sigh.... (Yes, there's gender bias in my name; no, I wasn't thinking about it when I signed up. My apologies.)

              by serendipityisabitch on Fri Mar 14, 2014 at 10:07:15 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  I'm glad you admitted to your error and removed (0+ / 0-)

                the HR.  Other commenters already explained why it was a blatant violation of site rules.

                •  You're glad? I bask in the warmth of your regard; (0+ / 0-)

                  I revel in your substantive and well researched replies to my pitiful attempts to live up to your standards.

                  At least half the future I've been expecting hasn't gotten here yet. Sigh.... (Yes, there's gender bias in my name; no, I wasn't thinking about it when I signed up. My apologies.)

                  by serendipityisabitch on Fri Mar 14, 2014 at 10:18:41 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  You should not bask in it at all. I don't think (0+ / 0-)

                    one gets to do that in the aftermath of an obvious violation of site guidelines, especially since there was plenty of opportunity to reconsider after other users in this comment thread pointed out the transgression so eloquently and accurately.

                    •  Aww. But it is YOUR eloquence that I pine for, not (0+ / 0-)

                      that of your commenters. Your eloquence in defending your categorization of people as "kinda sociopaths" was particularly telling, and I treasure your incisive attempt at explaining why site rules should not apply to your subsequent comments, since you were certainly not referencing anyone on this site who you specifically called out for commenting in bad faith. Specifically, not in general, not as general patterns.

                      Those people could not have been included in your general statement, of course, and I should have automatically seen that, and realized that when you were referring to your previous life, you were not in any way referencing anything you have written at Daily Kos.

                      So you were only referencing your life face to face with corporal, not virtual people. And thus, of course, it would be fallacious to presume that what you have said above about strong convictions or consistency in values should refer to any of the diaries you have posted here or the comments you have made. Right?

                      Such grace, such empathy - I had not realized you'd meant to exclude your diaries and comments on this site from your statement - that they were not in fact a part of the body of work which you covered in "Free to speak one's mind". Had I realized that, there would have been no reason for the HR.

                      But of course. I see it now, after your so exquisite replies to me and others. What you are saying applies only to attitudes that you adhere to when face to face with other people, not the things you say on this site. You see, I made the obviously untenable assumption that you were referring, at least in part, to that body of work. I will now bear in mind that none of the standards you cite in the body of the diary are meant to apply to any of your writings. And I will, sadly, continue to question your assumptions and your conclusions at any point I think it is warranted, but with, hopefully, more fulsome praise for your qualities outside this site thrown in to make you feel better about it.

                      At least half the future I've been expecting hasn't gotten here yet. Sigh.... (Yes, there's gender bias in my name; no, I wasn't thinking about it when I signed up. My apologies.)

                      by serendipityisabitch on Fri Mar 14, 2014 at 11:32:04 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

            •  well, that is the world according to Ray (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              serendipityisabitch, Timaeus

              You've never been able or willing to identify that supposed "persistent group of users." I've seen TUs politely argue about whom you were calling out. You may sincerely think that it is obvious, but there is no indication that the community at large agrees.

              Moreover, if you think it is obvious that any individual is a troll, it is far from obvious why you wouldn't post the evidence. Your pledge to "endeavor not to ever use the words 'troll,' 'sockpuppet,' 'cognitive infiltrator,' and similar terms to refer to any group of users here based on behavioral patterns" doesn't preclude exposing individual trolls, by that or any other name.

              In short, I think you're talking out of both sides of your mouth, not for the first time, probably not for the last. I don't like it.

              "Democracy is a political system for people who are not sure they are right." —E. E. Schattschneider

              by HudsonValleyMark on Fri Mar 14, 2014 at 10:23:09 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  No, it just reality; that's all. In the past I was (0+ / 0-)

                just pointing out patterns of behavior.  Those are very easy to spot, actually.  And there is nothing wrong with pointing that out.

                For example, if I write a diary calling attention to how certain Wall Street moneyed interests influence politicians, and I offer examples based on facts (well-sourced references, etc.) and someone replies with a "You're a conspiracy theorist," and things like that, any thinking person would see that as an unwarranted personal attack (and thus, possibly trollish behavior).

                If the same person does that often (a pattern), then it becomes more likely that they are indeed acting in bad faith.

                Anyways, that's just common sense; everybody knows that.

                But enough of that... Moving on now to my next diary.

                •  I do not think it means what you think it means (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  serendipityisabitch

                  If you actually pointed out patterns of behavior, then people could say, e.g.: "Yes, it's true, serendipityisabitch on at least twenty-five occasions posted a comment directly insulting you within an hour of the time you published a diary."

                  Instead, you generally stick to assertions that are so vague as to be unfalsifiable, as you have done here. But handwaving is not the same as pointing out.

                  If someone has habitually and unreasonably called you a conspiracy theorist, you have cause for complaint against that person, and you could readily substantiate it. (At first glance, you've used that phrase in comments on your diaries far more often than anybody else. Hmmm.) If you choose instead to offer vague and unsupported generalizations about ill-defined groups, one might begin to wonder whether you actually hope to be called a conspiracy theorist.

                  "Democracy is a political system for people who are not sure they are right." —E. E. Schattschneider

                  by HudsonValleyMark on Fri Mar 14, 2014 at 12:31:42 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

  •  Uprated to offset bogus HR's. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Joieau, Ray Pensador, lostinamerica

    This diary is not remotely trollworthy. Rate the comment, not the person.

    "The cost of liberty is less than the price of repression." - W.E.B. Du Bois Be informed. Fight the Police State.

    by Eternal Hope on Wed Mar 12, 2014 at 04:01:15 PM PDT

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