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Tesla showroom.
The greatest threat to the auto-dealers' monopolistic and broken business model.
As I've written before, Tesla is engaged with a running battle with auto dealers hell-bent on crushing the startup's business model.

Currently, automakers are barred from owning their own dealerships, forced instead to go through middlemen dealers. Those dealers then protect their turf by buying their home district politicians.

Tesla, the pioneering electric car manufacturer, found a loophole. It sells its own cars direct. But since it can't own dealerships, it has created Tesla "galleries" where people can browse literature, talk to a salesperson, maybe sit in a Tesla. But you can't buy the car there. You have to go online and use this wonderful new invention called the "inter-nets."

Dealers are upset. Not because they can't sell the Tesla. They don't give two shits about electric cars. They are worried that Ford and GM and Toyota and Hyundai may realize that it makes more sense to follow suit. Why have a bunch of high-pressure sleazy assholes represent your brand, when you can sell your own vehicles better? Apple found this out in 2001, when it abandoned its network of authorized dealers and began opening up its own stores. No one was a better brand and product ambassador than Apple itself, and those stores are a big part of the company's success story.

Please read below the fold for more on this story.

In a sane world in which a true "free market" existed, there might not be a need for independent dealerships. So manufacturers might prefer letting indies sell their wares. Others would opt to sell direct. Because why is it the government's business to tell manufacturers who can and can't sell their product?

So we can all snicker with a knowing nod that the three states that have now officially closed the internet-sales loophole and banned Tesla from selling their cars at all are—drum roll—Texas, Arizona, and as of this week, New Jersey.

When Republicans talk about their fealty to the free market, just look at Texas and Arizona and laugh in their face. And New Jersey? Why, that's Chris Christie's turf, and it was his administration that unilaterally shut down Tesla in the state. This was the same Chris Christie that a week prior, at CPAC, said this:

We need to talk about the fact that [Republicans] are for a free-market society that allows your effort and ingenuity to determine your success, not the cold, hard hand of the government.
Ironic, then, for him to shut down "ingenuity" using the "cold, hard hand of the government." The incumbent auto dealerships have no interest dealing with competition, and Christie is right there to help them maintain their outdated business model. Listen to the dealers' argument:
“There are substantial economic and public safety implications in the purchase of an automobile,” said Jim Appleton, president of New Jersey Coalition of Automotive Retailers. “The Tesla factory-owned store model destroys price competition and restricts consumer access to warranty and safety recall service.”
Destroys price competition?

Manufacturers can set their own prices. People decide which car they can afford. Not sure where "price competition" is harmed. In fact, Tesla's no-haggle pricing is a breath of fresh air. There are few experiences more frustrating than trying to negotiate an auto price at a dealership.

And that doesn't even take into consideration the fact that dealers have monopolistic "territories," whether they are the only outfit carrying a specific brand. The competition can be an hour's drive away. (Though in fairness, I negotiated my last car purchase by emailing the five closest Mazda dealers with my requirement, and going with the one that got me the best price, even though I had to drive an hour to go pick it up.)

Restricts consumer access to warranty and safety recall service?

Not only is Tesla opening up their own service centers, but they have roving service teams for people who live too far from a service center. And in any case, if that was a problem, the free market would take care of it, right? Either independent service centers would arise to fill the need, or Tesla would suffer from poor word-of-mouth as owners would find it difficult to service.

And it's really rich for dealers to hype up their role in safety issues when ...

[T]he Consumer Federation of America reported in 2013 that “[m]isrepresentation in advertising or sales of new and used cars, lemons, faulty repairs, leasing and towing disputes” was the top source of consumer complaints to state officials, as it had been in previous years.
The dealership model is a failure.

Ironically, dealers don't make that much money in car sales. Even in the best of years, the numbers are about $150 per vehicle, and in bad years, they could lose money per sale. And the dealership model costs about $2,225 per car, costs that are obviously passed on to auto buyers. Dealerships actually make their revenue in their service and parts department, and that wouldn't necessarily be affected by direct internet sales of vehicles.

New Jersey is just the latest front in this wide-ranging battle between Tesla and incumbent dealers, and it certainly won't be the last. There is legislation pending in New York, Ohio, and other states to similarly ban Tesla from bypassing the dealers, and those dealers are pumping thousands of lobbying dollars to protect their turf.

It's a losing cause, of course. There will be far more public pressure to allow Tesla sales in Texas and New Jersey and Arizona than there will be to keep them out. And not just from middle class families that will clamor for Tesla's mid-priced sedan scheduled to arrive in 3-4 years, but more importantly, from the well-heeled upper-income people who now see Tesla as a status symbol. (And as far as status symbols go, Tesla is probably the most wholesome save-the-earth one possible.)

And yes, once Tesla breaks the dam, then other automakers will follow suit. And that's a good thing. If people think that a middle-man is worth their while and want to pay the premium, all the power to them! But in the end, the dealers DO have everything to fear. They suck, people hate them, and given an alternative, they'll take it.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Same play by GOP in NC, fails (65+ / 0-)

    The NC GOP were forced to walk back their attempt to ban Tesla last year in a rather humiliating defeat.  Let's hope the same happens to Christie.

    June, 2013:

    TESLA: The Triangle Business Journal reports, "A bill that would ban sales of cars directly to consumers was blocked by an N.C. House committee Tuesday, effectively shutting down what some view as the N.C. Automobile Dealers Association’s anti-Tesla campaign." The bill would have required Tesla to have dealership agreements in North Carolina like Ford, Honda and other car companies. The electric car maker said it didn't sell enough cars to make that practical.
    http://www.wral.com/....
    And here's the link to the Triangle Business Journal article:

    http://www.bizjournals.com/....

    "If you are cast on a desert island with only a screwdriver, a hatchet, and a chisel to make a boat...go make the best one you can. It would be better if you had a saw, but you haven't." T.Roosevelt on politics.

    by NCJan on Sun Mar 16, 2014 at 09:35:51 AM PDT

  •  kos, you had better ream out Steve Sweeney and (21+ / 0-)

    Vinnie Prieto, as well.   This requirement for a dealership is statutory.   We control the Legislature, and we can change that in a heartbeat, if we don't care about the contributions received from the auto dealers lobby.  

    Repeal this part of the statute and make Christie veto the bill.  I'll bet he wouldn't, but we'll never know unless Democrats in New Jersey do something.  When you point your finger, four fingers are pointing back at you, ya know?  

    If you get confused, listen to the music play - R. Hunter

    by SpamNunn on Sun Mar 16, 2014 at 09:36:18 AM PDT

  •  The reason for the dealer monopoly is (18+ / 0-)

    that they are huge sources of sales tax revenue, and thus have unbeatable clout in state legislatures.

  •  oops, sounds like a result of the free market... (11+ / 0-)

    hahahah
    "Destroys price competition" I think he means between the dealerships, as I can't see what else it could be?
    I guess the 'invisible hand' of the "free market" is doing the complaining, and that invisible hand has lots of money, hence the votes it can buy, and the policy it can direct.

    "We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them." - Albert Einstein

    by pickandshovel on Sun Mar 16, 2014 at 09:41:11 AM PDT

    •  This is an illustration ....... (8+ / 0-)

      ...... of how whenever our pals on the right declare that they are a "pure" or "true" conservative .... they almost always aren't.

        I think Milton Friedman himself would find fault with laws barring direct sales by manufacturers .... as it does not match-up with conservative ideology. But while the conservative movement uses ideology, yes ..... most movement conservatives are actually "team conservatives". And anyone you can make a case for being a "pure" or "true" conservative is probably an armchair conservative .... not someone in a leadership position.

        Car dealers may-or-may-not be Republicans themselves, but they contribute to the GOP ... and that's why they get these legislative advantages.

      "We should pay attention to that man behind the curtain."

      by Ed Tracey on Sun Mar 16, 2014 at 11:31:09 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Consider the dealer power: presence in EVERY... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    devtob, Chi

    ... Congressional district in America. Back-home, "down-home," we are constituents who live there and work there. So dealers and the lobbyists who speak for them (and others who do, whether empowered or not!) have potent political leverage.

    I think "protect their turf by buying their home district politicians" is a little strong, but advancing their economic interests is right on target. They do not favor a free and openly competitive market; this market is tough enough for them now!

    2014 is HERE. Build up the Senate. Win back the House : 17 seats. Plus!

    by TRPChicago on Sun Mar 16, 2014 at 09:44:21 AM PDT

  •  For people that dismiss Tesla (16+ / 0-)

    as a company that makes cool toys for rich people, remember that the Tesla Model E is coming.

    And ALL of the Tesla prices will come down once their Gigafactory is up and running.

    Красота спасет мир --F. Dostoevsky

    by Wisper on Sun Mar 16, 2014 at 09:47:44 AM PDT

    •  I'll Believe it When I See It (3+ / 0-)

      When a stripped down version of the Model S (i.e. NO bells and whistles of any kind, no performance, not even upgraded Michelin) is $62K and there is no room for negotiation, and we're busy arguing that independent auto dealerships, most of which sell cars for real working class folks are somehow a monopoly that is bad (and no, this is not a defense of Chris Christie or other states that have used law to get in Tesla's way; just a defense of local auto dealerships), to read that "in a few years" Tesla might finish a working prototype of the Model E that will presumably be 20% less tells me that we're still taking about a car that will be somewhere in the $45-$50,000 range.

      In other words, even when talking about Model E we're still not talking about a car that isn't a "toy for rich people."

      Don't get me wrong: I am a big believer in what Tesla is trying to do.  But I can't expend a lot of political outrage on its behalf.  It's market is not one that has anything to do with most folks.  Green or not.

      At this point, I just want America to admit that it still doesn't want its Black citizens to live in any state other than terror, subservience and inferiority, under pain of death. I can handle American racism, but I can't handle American denial.

      by shanikka on Sun Mar 16, 2014 at 10:45:28 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  cars for $50k (0+ / 0-)

        without factoring interest, over 5 years, that's $833 a month. That's definitely out of the realm of a car payment for regular people. Six years brings it down to $694, still a big nut for the average person. Also doesn't factor in insurance, and where I live, personal property tax. (we have to pay tax on the value of our cars every six months. New car, high value = more tax)

        But, with a Tesla, you also don't have to pay for gas. (but you do have to pay for electricity)

        "Watch what you say or they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, fanatical, criminal..."-7.75, -5.54

        by solesse413 on Sun Mar 16, 2014 at 11:22:36 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Musk announced the price of the Model X (0+ / 0-)

        Is increasing by 10%.

        It was supposed to be the same-ish price as a Model S. but it will cost more.

        The more he gets from the higher cost models, the less the Gen III model will cost.

        Hard to say. I'm not sure what the Model X will cost (I think it may be more than 10% more than a comparably equipped Model S once you get to the better batteries and reasonable options)

        We'll see...

        © grover


        So if you get hit by a bus tonight, would you be satisfied with how you spent today, your last day on earth? Live like tomorrow is never guaranteed, because it's not. -- Me.

        by grover on Sun Mar 16, 2014 at 12:02:20 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Still need a lot of infrastructure improvements (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      JeffW, Odysseus, mconvente, Larsstephens

      to make EVs accessible to the general populace. Not that many places to plug in and charge -- especially for folks in multi-family housing (older apartment and condo complexes). I'd love to see some sort of tax credit system to encourage property owners to retrofit a portion of their parking facilities for EV charging; then they'd just have to figure out how to prioritize assigning those spaces to EV owners.

      There's only one rule that I know of, babies -- goddammit, you've got to be kind. -- Kurt Vonnegut

      by Cali Scribe on Sun Mar 16, 2014 at 10:46:24 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  The National Auto Dealers Assn. donates to GOP (12+ / 0-)

    A lot more. And so so most car dealers;

    https://www.opensecrets.org/...

    Daily Kos an oasis of truth. Truth that leads to action.

    by Shockwave on Sun Mar 16, 2014 at 09:49:49 AM PDT

  •  Kos, please think of the apostrophes!! (3+ / 0-)

    There's one tragically missing from your headline …

    Code Monkey like freedom / Code Monkey like peace and justice too
    Code Monkey very nerdy man / With big warm fuzzy bleeding heart
    Code Monkey like you!

    Formerly known as Jyrinx.

    by Code Monkey on Sun Mar 16, 2014 at 09:49:56 AM PDT

  •  I can't wait (0+ / 0-)

    until most brick and mortars -across all products- vanish. All that will be left are the corner Payday/Sham loan buildings and occasional dry cleaner, and a whole lotta republicans SCREAMING about lost tax revenue.

    "I feel badly about the kids," the unknown person said. "I guess." [but] "They are [only] the children of Buono voters," Wildstein replied.

    by plok on Sun Mar 16, 2014 at 09:50:20 AM PDT

    •  The Amazon model is making retailing pretty (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Aquarius40, Odysseus

      much an electronic art.  Warehousing and transporting are the wave of the future.  MegaService centers, like mega churches, will follow.  Someone needs to be thinking about easy conversions of malls into other things.

      Building a better America with activism, cooperation, ingenuity and snacks.

      by judyms9 on Sun Mar 16, 2014 at 10:02:04 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  My wife just informed me (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        grover

        she has been paying tax on Amazon purchases. I had no idea.
        We have UPS/Fedex trucks down our street constantly.  

        "I feel badly about the kids," the unknown person said. "I guess." [but] "They are [only] the children of Buono voters," Wildstein replied.

        by plok on Sun Mar 16, 2014 at 10:13:20 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Hmm (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        BYw, petral

        That would be a real shame. Since Amazon treats its warehouse workers rather worse than a lot of Apple's suppliers in China treat their employees. And then fire them when their bodies have been sufficiently destroyed that, for medical reasons, they can no longer keep up the 'walk ten miles and do 450 squats and carry boxes all over the place every single day' pace.

    •  Do you really think the instant gratification (8+ / 0-)

      aspect of commodity consumption can ever be completely supplanted by buying stuff over the internet? I'm not convinced.

      I live in Italy, where people are rightfully too worried about internet security to trust many sites with their credit car numbers (though I think pre-paid cards are more popular here than in the U.S.).  There is an amazon.it which has grown a lot in terms of offerings since it opened a little over a year ago.  I've had perfect experiences ordering from them.

      But what I also like in terms of moving between brick-and-mortars and the web was one experience I had buying shoes, the Geox brand. I tried on a pair of boots, but the didn't have them in the color I wanted. Instead of the old trick of getting a pair from another store, then forcing me to come back to pick them up, they simply went to their web site and had them shipped to my house at no additional cost. I had already tried on the size so I knew that they fit, so I thought that was a pretty good way of doing things.

      Then again, maybe they've been doing that for years in the U.S. and they're just now adopting here...

      •  Brick and Mortar (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ladybug53, SneakySnu, Odysseus, BYw

        The traditional brick and mortar models for stuff that isn't a necessity is dying.  The experience you described where you go and try out a pair of shoes and ordered the right color online is the model many businesses are following.  You go into Staples for example and you can have the associate order something online right there if they don't have it in the store.  Giant retailers will want to cut down the size of their stores  and avoid paying all that rent and expense of opening up a store.  I can easily envision a a retail store where they have alot of floor models for you to try out and sample then order it online.  That way you don't have to pay to warehouse a ton of product on site and can do it all at a central warehouse.  

        That's the approach that Tesla is following. Why have a huge dealership with hundreds of cars sitting in a lot when you can have a storefront where people come to learn about them, test drive one and then they can select whatever car they want with whatever features they want and have it delivered to your door.  Less expense for Tesla which means lower prices and you're not stuck with buying what is on the lot or with dealing with shade salesmen.  Toyota already does this on a limited basis with their Scion line but for a car company to completely avoid the dealership model is revolutionary  

        This is your world These are your people You can live for yourself today Or help build tomorrow for everyone -8.75, -8.00

        by DisNoir36 on Sun Mar 16, 2014 at 10:41:26 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  You bring up an interesting point (6+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ladybug53, grover, SneakySnu, Odysseus, Miira, BYw

        that retailers are carrying less inventory. Fewer products and more inexpensive products on the shelves. And more and more when out shopping you hear "we can get it online if we don't have it in stock".

        I went to buy a soccer ball for my kids last month. I went to a chain store. There were literally hundreds of balls on the walls. Pretty colors, saturated. Like the toothpaste isle with the thousands of tiny boxes meant to dizzy you.

        Here's the problem: they were all $20 balls. Cheap, plastic, Chinese balls. Literally every single one of them. The only non-$20 ball was an official World Cup ball for $160.

        So:

        1. $20 ball

        2. $160 ball

        3. Go online

        And it's not just soccer balls.

        "I feel badly about the kids," the unknown person said. "I guess." [but] "They are [only] the children of Buono voters," Wildstein replied.

        by plok on Sun Mar 16, 2014 at 10:55:07 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Same thing here. (5+ / 0-)

          We went to an auto parts store for a pretty basic little tool thingy my husband wanted. He had already put one in my Amazon cart, but he wanted one -- and it's nice to shop locally when we can.

          Couldn't find it one the shelves. The sales dude looked in the computer. There was an old parts number, but not a single one in stock in the state. This is a regional (national, maybe?) auto parts store.

          The guy was shocked. It's a standard tool. He said, "I'm sure you can buy it on Amazon. They have everything."

          © grover


          So if you get hit by a bus tonight, would you be satisfied with how you spent today, your last day on earth? Live like tomorrow is never guaranteed, because it's not. -- Me.

          by grover on Sun Mar 16, 2014 at 12:07:42 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Really? (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      fiddlingnero, BYw
      I can't wait until most brick and mortars -across all products- vanish. All that will be left are the corner Payday/Sham loan buildings and occasional dry cleaner, and a whole lotta republicans SCREAMING about lost tax revenue.
      Really, you support this dystopian vision simply because it will make Republicans scream about tax revenue?

      This really seems like an instance of being willing to cut off your nose out of spite, because I don't really see how a decimated retail infrastructure benefits our communities and neighborhoods, whether in urban areas, suburbs, or rural areas.  In fact, this is much the same thing that progressives have been laying on Walmart for years -- that it was destroying traditional retail centers and downtowns in small towns and cities across the country.

      While online retail certainly has a place, so does brick and mortar retail.  I would hope that the two will find a way to coexist so that both can thrive.

      Political Compass: -6.75, -3.08

      by TexasTom on Sun Mar 16, 2014 at 11:46:15 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I'm old enough to have seen (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        KilljoyTXinMI

        retail come and go. And in some cases come back again. I grew up in East Richardson in the 80's. There was the mall, grocers, food, everything. Not it's all gone. Only Sears remains at the mall, and they don't even turn on their Heat or AC. They sell batteries and tires. The mall, like the other malls in Dallas, are full of Chinese plastic shit consumed by people who haven't gotten on line yet.

        Products are shifting on line. Services will remain. It's done. Galleria mall is slow (and in a poor part of Dallas). Northpark Mall is always pumping, but it's mostly high-end. This displays the reality that locally it's either cheap Chinese, or high-end. No in between.

        Republicans love and thrive on taxes while they fill the airwaves with lies that they don't. I support any phenomena that displays their level of hypocrisy. Especially when it's inevitable.

        "I feel badly about the kids," the unknown person said. "I guess." [but] "They are [only] the children of Buono voters," Wildstein replied.

        by plok on Sun Mar 16, 2014 at 05:50:19 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  There's also the fact... (0+ / 0-)

          ...that those online retailers mostly employ a few highly-paid people, and then a bunch of minimum wage workers, whom they use up, destroy, and then throw away when they can no longer walk.

          The destruction of retail in the US is going to leave us with unemployment that makes today's look like a paradise. And then all those online retailers will go under, having found that nobody can afford to buy anything any more.

  •  This Again Proves My Point (18+ / 0-)

    just made over in the diary regarding (lack of) high speed rail in our nation: our nation is run by monopolies who can't handle competition from a better product/service.

    FAIL.

    "We are beyond law, which is not unusual for an empire; unfortunately, we are also beyond common sense." Gore Vidal

    by Superpole on Sun Mar 16, 2014 at 09:51:46 AM PDT

  •  I always had a pretty low opinion of car (4+ / 0-)

    dealers...now I know why. I think most of them are Republicans.

    This story regarding Tesla is just another thing to pile on the Republican mountain of hypocrisies: We love free enterprise unitl we don't.  

    Guns are never the principal in the commission of a crime, but they are usually an accomplice

    by MadGeorgiaDem on Sun Mar 16, 2014 at 09:51:55 AM PDT

  •  Tesla is little threat to dealers overall (0+ / 0-)

    "middle class families ... will clamor for Tesla's mid-priced sedan scheduled to arrive in 3-4 years"

    This will be great if it happens, but there are many things that could go wrong.  There is a very good chance that Tesla will be out of business by then regardless of how good their cars are.  If they really have the secret to making moderate-priced electric cars - which has certainly not been proven yet - then the big makers will imitate and sell through their dealer networks. Why would they change their business model just because they make different kinds of cars?

    •  Those guys are 10 years behind Tesla. (8+ / 0-)

      They don't have the patents they need #1, and #2 they aren't even built to do what Tesla does. Tesla is only going to get more efficient over time. The most out-front company out there is GM and look at how miserable the Volt is.

      Nope, Tesla on a growth trajectory for sure. Just saw my first one on the road here in Brooklyn and needless to say many heads turned.

      •  Being practically in Tesla's backyard (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ladybug53

        we see quite a few of them around here, and have been seeing more Tesla showrooms (often replacing traditional dealerships that have shuttered).

        There's only one rule that I know of, babies -- goddammit, you've got to be kind. -- Kurt Vonnegut

        by Cali Scribe on Sun Mar 16, 2014 at 10:54:09 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  VOLTEC (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        brooklynbadboy, charliehall2, Miira

        The GM Voltec powertrain (Chevy Volt) is in fact extremely sophisticated, at least as good as or better than anything else on the market.

        And given that GM has been working on electric vehicles for over 100 years I'd be surprised if there aren't quite a few patent cross-licensing agreements between Tesla and GM.  Toyota as well.

        I think Tesla is doing a lot of good work technically and economically, but they aren't performing magic.

        sPh

    •  Your name is apt (7+ / 0-)

      you're skeptical.  But if there is one thing that we have seen so far it's that you should never count out Tesla.  

      I don't know where you get the idea that Tesla will be out of business and I bet you have nothing to support that assertion.  If anything Tesla is growing exponentially.  They paid off their loans, their share price has in increased tenfold in the matter of a few years and they're looking to open up a battery factory plus they're creating a whole network of chargers and opening up stores throughout the world.  Those aren't the telltale signs of a business going out of business.

      They recently announced that in a few years they will begin production of the Model E which will be a midsized car for significantly less than the Model S.  With the new battery factory the prices of the battery packs, which are the most expensive component of the cars, will go down significantly.  The big makers cannot imitate Tesla because Tesla recreated the car from the ground up and has patents on it all.  Plus Tesla has already invested in the manufacturing of the technology and is doing it.  The other manufacturers would have to develop the technology and then manufacture it.  They're way behind Tesla already.

      This is your world These are your people You can live for yourself today Or help build tomorrow for everyone -8.75, -8.00

      by DisNoir36 on Sun Mar 16, 2014 at 10:52:13 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  And with its Guaranteed Replacement Pricing (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        BYw

        plan, its setting itself up for a significant number of owners who will be happy to trade in the cars they're  buying now in 3 years for a brand new Tesla.

        © grover


        So if you get hit by a bus tonight, would you be satisfied with how you spent today, your last day on earth? Live like tomorrow is never guaranteed, because it's not. -- Me.

        by grover on Sun Mar 16, 2014 at 12:12:30 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  So What? (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Larsstephens, BelgianBastard

      So Tesla goes out of business. How does that justify a law prohibiting it from doing business - that would be redundant? The law makes it harder for Tesla to succeed.

      "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

      by DocGonzo on Sun Mar 16, 2014 at 07:20:11 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  The cold hand of government (0+ / 0-)

    that thing that is supposedly teh Satan, and when it suits him Christie wields it unscrupulously.

    Stark, raving dissonance.

  •  Love being able to see Tesla at the mall! (0+ / 0-)

    There's a gallery at the mall in Park Meadows mall in Littleton, Colorado by my sister's house and whenever we are there it is always buzzing with people checking out Tesla. Plus, I'm seeing them on the streets. Wow, gorgeous and awesome car! My parents can afford one, but they love BMW and feel the Tesla needs to work a few more kinks out, like not catching on fire as my mom says. Nevertheless, they are impressive and as a company, doing a great job going green and going forward!

    21st Century Freedom in the USA: "Of the 1%, by the 1%, for the 1%" - Joseph Stiglitz

    by coloradorob on Sun Mar 16, 2014 at 09:55:34 AM PDT

    •  Catching on fire. LOL (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Odysseus, Miira, DocGonzo, sphealey, BYw

      The Tesla has actually been proven to be safer if it does catch fire and it's funny that the biggest critique of the EV car is that it catches fire when the traditional cars are usually sitting on 10-20 gallons of gasoline plus a couple of quarts of oil and can blow up at any point.  

      This is your world These are your people You can live for yourself today Or help build tomorrow for everyone -8.75, -8.00

      by DisNoir36 on Sun Mar 16, 2014 at 10:54:23 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  totally agree with you (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        DocGonzo

        but since George Clooney claims his Tesla caught on fire and my mom heard that, well it's in her consciousness until they say Tesla will not catch fire. ugh

        21st Century Freedom in the USA: "Of the 1%, by the 1%, for the 1%" - Joseph Stiglitz

        by coloradorob on Sun Mar 16, 2014 at 01:35:10 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  I love the Tesla store also (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      grover, coloradorob, BYw

      I can't even come close to affording one, but it's really cool to sit in the driver's seat and pretend I'm driving, check out the empty space under the hood where the engine should be etc.

      The people are super nice too. I even told them one time that there's no way I can afford it, but they were nice enough to answer some questions and show me the calculator they have that shows your savings based on the price of gas/price of electricity.

      Try going to a car dealership and telling them you have no money to buy a car but you just want to go through the sales process and see how that works out for you?

      When we stop putting leaders from the past up on pedestals and ignoring their flaws, we can start seeing our present leaders for what they really are.

      by PhillyJeff on Sun Mar 16, 2014 at 11:10:36 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Tesla's competition is mainly BMW (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      coloradorob, Larsstephens, BYw

      Since Tesla is cozy with Mercedes and Toyota, their competition is largely BMW.  There will be Mercedes vehicles coming out with Tesla tech before long (C-class station wagon is reportedly being tested). Toyota is already using a bunch of Tesla tech (and is a substantial stock holder).  

      BMW, on the other hand, is trying their own tech.  The BMW i3 is well received in EU zone, for instance.  Another smaller electric like the Leaf, iMiev, Fiat 500e, Focus Electric, etc.   The 'halo effect' of Tesla is pretty amazing, and the government incentives (heavy hand here too).  

      The Model E is going to compete with BMW 3-series at launch.  With 200 mile range (150 realistically).  So it'll still be a bit of a stretch, but getting easier for people to justify when considering costs over 10 years (fuel and repairs adds up).  

      Very interesting days in the next few years.  

      •  yes, the i3 looks amazing! (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Larsstephens, BYw

        and have you seen the i8??? wow, talk about totally cool, that's one hot car, at least in pics and reading about it. I would definitely like to see them both in the real!

        21st Century Freedom in the USA: "Of the 1%, by the 1%, for the 1%" - Joseph Stiglitz

        by coloradorob on Sun Mar 16, 2014 at 01:38:11 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  There no better publicity than bad publicity. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    notrouble

    Go Tesla.

    "It's no measure of health being well adjusted to a profoundly sick society"

    by buckshot face on Sun Mar 16, 2014 at 09:57:24 AM PDT

  •  Apple didn't completely abandon its dealer network (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TexasTom

    There are still many places where Apple has yet to penetrate into the market—and there the dealers are still "Apple authorized."

    •  However, Apple Stores HAVE significantly (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      a2nite, Cali Scribe, Odysseus, gmats, BYw

      changed the nature of how Apple products are displayed and sold at retail, and what a huge change (for the better, IMHO)

      America's LAST HOPE: vote the GOP OUT in 2014 elections. MAKE them LOSE the House Majority and reduce their numbers in the Senate. Democrats move America forward - Republicans take us backward and are KILLING OUR NATION!

      by dagnome on Sun Mar 16, 2014 at 10:16:55 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I wonder if the car dealers make use of ALEC (0+ / 0-)

    or vice versa.

  •  I saw the debate (8+ / 0-)

    the auto middle men have their point, that they can negotiate in bulk and get better prices and pass on those savings and service the cars, and they deal with the company when there are problems, he made it sound like dealers provide consumer protections.  

    But none of what he said applied at all to Tesla.  For one thing there have to be more cars than customers to get manufacturers to lower prices, and with Tesla there are more customers than cars, so a dealer could not get a better price.   And when there are more cars, then customers can negotiate with Tesla, like we now have to negotiate with dealers.

    And since it isn't a gas car, the service isn't the same and so dealers providing specialized guys on hand would just lose them money and they'd have to include their losses in mark ups.  While any mechanic can train to work on a Tesla even when most of his work would still be gas guzzlers.  

    This is a Christie story, yes, the story of Christie listening to his contributors and not to his constituents.   Also shows he doesn't know he's dead, he's signaling to red states that he's like them.  When will he realize he's dead?  

    •  It's also cute that Christie will forego the sales (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Aquarius40, anna shane, BYw

      tax that will come with each of these rather expensive cars, and let it go to his neighboring states instead.

      Lead your life - don't let your life lead you.

      by lineatus on Sun Mar 16, 2014 at 10:18:13 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I don't know how NJ works, but in a lot (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        DocGonzo, lineatus, BYw

        of states, you pay sales tax at the DMV when you register the car, and pay the tax rate for the address it's registered to. So I live in St. Louis, MO. If I cross the river and buy a car from a dealer in Illinois, I still pay sales tax to MO.

        It's possible that NJ isn't losing any sales tax on Teslas if they follow the same model.

        "How come when it’s us, it’s an abortion, and when it’s a chicken, it’s an omelette?" - George Carlin

        by yg17 on Sun Mar 16, 2014 at 11:37:45 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  None of the first paragraph (7+ / 0-)

      is any justification for why people should be REQUIRED to purchase cars at dealerships.

      It's the exact same thing right now with everything else. When you want a thing, if you want hands-on local service, you can buy it from a retail store. If you just want the product and want to risk not having that local presence to address issues for you, you can buy on the internet. No reason it shouldn't be the same for cars.

      "No children have ever meddled with the Republican Party and lived to tell about it." - Sideshow Bob

      by ThinkerT on Sun Mar 16, 2014 at 10:49:47 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  guy gave his best defense (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Odysseus

        problem is that they aren't in it for consumer protection, they're in it for a big profit, and that comes from the consumer.  The other side remarked that airplanes sell direct to customer and they negotiate prices.  And they make enough to lobby, which is lots. Wonder if any are represented by General Samson (heh heh)

        he bristled at the idea of being called middle men, which is a dirty word, historically for old school Republicans. But it is what they are, they are between the product and the consumer. So, if it's such a good deal, they ought not have to protect their business by preventing direct sale competition.

  •  thanks, rec'd and tweeted, I learned (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    davehouck, grover, 417els

    something. :)

  •  we thank all of you who buy new cars; (7+ / 0-)

    how else would there be all the used ones around for the bulk of us great-unwashed to buy at something approaching their actual value?

    don't always believe what you think

    by claude on Sun Mar 16, 2014 at 10:13:24 AM PDT

  •  An important issue (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Peace Missile

    with wide reaching implications for the middle class and the poor.  

    Thanks for being the vanguard on this important issue.  I really hope the Democrats prevail in getting a private company a special favor in one state.  It'll be great for getting out mid-term voters, since we all drive luxury cars.  

    The tent got so big it now stands for nothing.

    by Beelzebud on Sun Mar 16, 2014 at 10:13:47 AM PDT

  •  As a Tesla shareholder, I'm glad to see them (9+ / 0-)

    fighting this.  I just wish I'd bought more shares in the beginning, because they've gone up about 1000% since then.  They must be doing something right.

    Lead your life - don't let your life lead you.

    by lineatus on Sun Mar 16, 2014 at 10:16:08 AM PDT

    •  You and me both (7+ / 0-)

      I bought a few on a lark at their IPO.  They were selling at low $20 back then.  Now they're well over $200 a share.  I wish I had bought more.  Maybe I could afford to buy a Tesla if I had.

      This is your world These are your people You can live for yourself today Or help build tomorrow for everyone -8.75, -8.00

      by DisNoir36 on Sun Mar 16, 2014 at 10:57:09 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  My rule of thumb for IPOs, if it's a company I (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Larsstephens, petral

        think will do well in the long run (because I'm a buy and hold type investor):  Wait until a week after the IPO, then buy.  The first few days, prices shoot up, then drift back down.  Or they shoot up and keep going up.  If you wait a week, you get in on a reasonable price if it drifts down, or you still catch it on the low end of a long rise if it keeps going up.  Either way, it's worth waiting a week.

        Lead your life - don't let your life lead you.

        by lineatus on Sun Mar 16, 2014 at 08:24:10 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Car (dealer)Cartel: no different than Drug Cartel (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    a2nite, defluxion10

    and in New Jersey: no crime in Christie's kleptocracy, of course

    Warning - some snark may be above‽ (-9.50; -7.03)‽ eState4Column5©2013 "I’m not the strapping young Muslim socialist that I used to be" - Barack Obama 04/27/2013 (@eState4Column5).

    by annieli on Sun Mar 16, 2014 at 10:16:53 AM PDT

  •  It's the same story with municipal broadband (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    davehouck, arlene, BYw

    Monopolists donate heavily to campaigns and they don't want competition, so they donate to ALEC to keep it out.  And the "free market" party continues to push the agenda of their campaign contributors.

  •  OT: Middle Class Jobs (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    shanikka, ladybug53, WorkerInUSA, Miira

    I agree with this "free trade" idea with which the middle persons have been fighting ever since mid-1960s in Japan.  But having seen the "middle men" lose so many of these battles over the years, I do recognize that this is another proof of someone's thesis that the internet is destroying the Middle Class.

    Understand, I have my doubts about the quality of Middle Class people who sell cars, especially used cars.  But they are jobs that could be lost to the internet.

    I came very close to buying a Nissan LEAF on e-bay.  Instead, at my wife's encouragement, I paid about $3,000 more to a dealer.  I hope it was worth it.  She thinks it is worth it and calls the salesman often with questions.  So I can see both sides.

    I'm from Johnson City.

    by Al Fondy on Sun Mar 16, 2014 at 10:18:56 AM PDT

    •  New times, new models (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Miira

      Historically, when we moved from an agrarian to an industrial economy, it was widely believed that machinery would result in fewer jobs.

      Eventually the economy adjusted and different jobs were created.

      The decline of brick and mortar stores may result in a loss of some jobs.

      But as far as I can see, there's lots of things that need doing these days.

      The question is whether someone can figure out how to make a profit out of hiring the people to do it.

      Or maybe the question is how we can convince our society that some jobs need to be done even if they don't create a profit for someone.

      "If you are cast on a desert island with only a screwdriver, a hatchet, and a chisel to make a boat...go make the best one you can. It would be better if you had a saw, but you haven't." T.Roosevelt on politics.

      by NCJan on Sun Mar 16, 2014 at 11:24:22 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  In my town alone (0+ / 0-)

        there are probably 25-30 dealerships, and each probably employs 30-40 people making middle class wages. 1200 people, and maybe another 300-400 in locales you can drive to.

        That's a lot of middle class jobs you are blowing away without a plan.

        Democrats used to be "pro-jobs". It' seems fashionable now to run down working-class people and jobs that get you dirty. Not to me. I'm for more jobs, taxing the shit out of the internet and local workers working.

        Why aren't you?

        •  I'm not blowing it away (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          eparrot, gmats, 417els, BYw

          And I'm sorry if your town is facing such an economic downturn.

          I think it's sad but inevitable that technology will take away a lot of good jobs the economy and society provided before the advent of personal computers.

          But I believe the solution is to look forward and think about how we can replace the jobs that technology is destroying with new and better paying jobs.

          For example, service jobs. I think that too many corporations rely on computers for what computers cannot easily do (for example, answer a "maybe" question as opposed to a "Yes" or "No" question, or even a question that's not "frequently asked").  As a result, these companies have terrible customer service.  But as long as they can get away with it, they won't hire the humans that they obviously need.

          The only remedy for the universal frustration of trying to do something online when there's no place on a form for your particular need is to supply more people to answer questions. (These should also be unionized or  should have public representation that insures a living wage.)

          The only remedy for the universal frustration of waiting literally hours on the phone while elevator music is playing in order to ask a simple question is for corporations to hire more people to pick up the damn phones.

          And the only remedy for the horrible state of many of the problems this society faces--from a deplorable mental health care delivery system to adequate police and fire protection to clean streets and public parks and libraries--and I could go on and on--is for our society to provide the public funding to hire the literally millions of people to do the jobs we need to do.

          "If you are cast on a desert island with only a screwdriver, a hatchet, and a chisel to make a boat...go make the best one you can. It would be better if you had a saw, but you haven't." T.Roosevelt on politics.

          by NCJan on Sun Mar 16, 2014 at 03:01:09 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Well, Tesla bought the old vacant Toyota (0+ / 0-)

          factory in Fremont, complete with all the equipment.

          It's running shifts five days a week now. Hopefully, as Tesla becomes more flush with cash, it will run even more shifts with even more workers.

          Those are good American jobs.

          © grover


          So if you get hit by a bus tonight, would you be satisfied with how you spent today, your last day on earth? Live like tomorrow is never guaranteed, because it's not. -- Me.

          by grover on Sun Mar 16, 2014 at 08:58:24 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Exactly correct (0+ / 0-)

      I try to buy locally. I have a B&N membership. I order books through B&N local store, and the store and state get the sales tax, I get the discount, and the store stays open.

      Pretty soon, all that we will have is WalMarts and FedEx/UPS megaplexes. We will all buy stuff through the internet, and never leave our houses, and everyone who has a job will live like a king. All 10% of them. The rest will starve. I don't consider that a good idea.

      The Democratic Party used to be a party promoting jobs for workers. Here we have a diary promoting a "no-jobs" for workers model. What's the deal with that?

  •  The car dealers have always been a problem for us. (7+ / 0-)

    They almost uniformly give to local Republicans by the bushel. They hate President Obama because he made sure they got kicked in the teeth during the auto bailout. Even though he saved most of their asses, the great majority of em.

    Any GOP consultant will tell you that is the fist place you go when you want to run for county sheriff: The car dealers.

    •  So true (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mkor7, defluxion10, Miira, mconvente, BYw

      Obama saved their asses.  Mitt Romney would have let Detroit go bankrupt and along with that many dealerships would have as well.  Yet they are solidly GOP.  All the more reason why the Tesla model needs to work.  

      BTW I find it not in the least bit ironic that the biggest constituents of the GOP are slick Oilmen, greedy Wall Street Execs, slimy car salesmen and shady Insurance salesmen.

      Amoral polluters, crooks, liars and swindlers.  Kinda describes the GOP in a nutshell.

      This is your world These are your people You can live for yourself today Or help build tomorrow for everyone -8.75, -8.00

      by DisNoir36 on Sun Mar 16, 2014 at 11:01:12 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Kicked In the Teeth? (0+ / 0-)

      All I saw in the bailout was car dealers getting bailed out. How were they kicked in the teeth?

      "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

      by DocGonzo on Sun Mar 16, 2014 at 07:24:02 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  The internet (11+ / 0-)

    for lack of a better word, is changing everything, exponentially. Car dealers are on the way out, they can fight it, but it's inevitable. I don't know a single person that looks forward to dealing with a "salesman" then a "manager" as if the two of them weren't on the same side! The process of buying a car, new or used, at a car lot, ranks lower than dandruff, hemorrhoids, and traffic jams. It sucks.

    •  Nobody has ever enjoyed it. It is almost always (7+ / 0-)

      a terrible experience, if not at the very first contact then on the service and maintenance side.

      I don't even enjoy talking to them. I just send over a list of what I want to many people as possible just like kos does. I get the quote and then I go pick up the car. Im very rude when I get there too because I don't want to talk and I have one check printed out and ready to go. Just give me the goddamn keys and I don't want to discuss anything else.

    •  The problem is... (10+ / 0-)

      ...that car dealerships have perfected a buying experience that is pretty much designed to be as stressful and unpleasant for the buyer as possible.

      Who ever comes away from the process without wondering if they got screwed over, either by a high price on the new car, a lowball trade in offer on the old car, bad loan terms, or else pressure to get useless add ons like extended warranties.

      The biggest threat to dealerships isn't the Internet -- it's their own business practices.

      Political Compass: -6.75, -3.08

      by TexasTom on Sun Mar 16, 2014 at 11:52:32 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Yep (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      NCJan

      I got my latest car via internet research and used AAA as the middle man. Never set foot in a car dealership.

      Time is of no account with great thoughts, which are as fresh to-day as when they first passed through their authors' minds ages ago. - Samuel Smiles

      by moviemeister76 on Sun Mar 16, 2014 at 12:22:59 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Did you pay sales tax? (0+ / 0-)

        If not, you should. Because sales tax funds local stuff, like roads and your state.

        People who don't pay local sales tax are engaging in tax theft.

        •  Yes (0+ / 0-)

          Of course I paid sales taxes. What makes you think I wouldn't have?

          Time is of no account with great thoughts, which are as fresh to-day as when they first passed through their authors' minds ages ago. - Samuel Smiles

          by moviemeister76 on Sun Mar 16, 2014 at 02:03:12 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Oh, sales tax on internet stuff (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            moviemeister76

            is often not paid. In fact, many people, even progressives, oppose sales tax on internet stuff. I myself would support a double sales tax on the internet stuff. I prefer buying local because it employs people in the town I live in, which cuts down on unemployment.

            Just wondering, but I knew you had paid it.

            •  Oh I didn't purchase it on the internet (0+ / 0-)

              I just researched the car I wanted on the internet. AAA provides this service where you tell them what car you want and they find a dealership in your state that has it and go buy it for you, then deliver it to your house. My husband called a AAA agent up on a Friday with the details of just what car I wanted and what we thought would be a fair price for it, and by Tuesday the next week it was delivered to our house.

              And I agree. I try to buy locally as much as possible.

              Time is of no account with great thoughts, which are as fresh to-day as when they first passed through their authors' minds ages ago. - Samuel Smiles

              by moviemeister76 on Sun Mar 16, 2014 at 02:13:42 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

  •  Service model is breaking down (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    arlene, NCJan, mkor7, defluxion10, Odysseus

    The dealership concept had some value in past ages, but post-2000 its fundamental model is breaking down:  service.  Vehicles from 2000 forward (and certainly 2005 forward) from any/every manufacturer simply don't break down.  And therefore don't require expensive service to support the dealership's operation [noting that mfgs reimburse dealers for warranty service].

     Yes, there are a few statistical outliers but my 2010 vehicle is typical:  oil changes when the computer says so (about 9000 mile intervals for me), new tires and battery at 4 years, and some work at the bodyshop not the manufacturer's fault ;-)  It is already past 75k (mixed city+highway) and still operates as if new.  And this isn't any special luxury brand; just a standard US-built sedan.  

    10 years from now there won't be a need for this huge network of dealers with their service centers - just one centrally-located warranty service center for a region to handle the statistical anomalies.  Bodyshops are mostly subcontracted by dealers/mfgrs already, so they'll still be there.  I think the cognitive dissonance is go great the existing dealers can't bear to even think about this.

    sPh

    •  It actually made sense many years ago (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      defluxion10, Odysseus, sphealey

      If it's 1952 or something, you couldn't go on the internet and compare car models. You could ask people you knew, but if you weren't a car guy you probably had no idea about the features of different models etc. So you go to the dealership, the salesman (who is hopefully honest) finds out what you need and suggests a car.

      Now that's all out the window. You can shop online for prices, models, features etc and pick the ones you like and then go to the dealership and test drive/pick them out.

      I almost feel the same way about bookstores. It's sad because I always liked to walk through bookstores and flip through books hoping to find something interesting.

      But it's easier, more convenient and cheaper to look through Amazon because they have almost every book ever in stock, now with Google inside or whatever you can check a page or two, and it's cheaper.

      When we stop putting leaders from the past up on pedestals and ignoring their flaws, we can start seeing our present leaders for what they really are.

      by PhillyJeff on Sun Mar 16, 2014 at 11:15:56 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  And all those workers who work (0+ / 0-)

        in bookstores and in car dealerships, well, they can all go and ... get on unemployment .... or something...

        Gee, your brave new world doesn't seem to have any jobs for normal people.

        Now that's a democratic perspective - cut out all the jobs, and we can all drink pina coladas 24/7/365. For about 36 weeks.

        I try my best to buy nothing on the internet, and to spend locally. I want normal people to work in actual jobs. Buying on the internet is a bad thing, and it should have double sales tax.

        •  Capitalistic economies change quite a bit through (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          sphealey, BYw

          the years. There's probably 5% of the record store employees there used to be, for one example. It's great to shop local, and I sure try to as well because you help your neighbors out and keep stores from being empty shells, but it's important to recognize how things are changing.

           There are less Borders employees than in the past, but more Amazon shipping employees.

           There are less car dealer employees than in the past, but more Tesla Representatives. And maybe in the future, the car dealers find jobs as being representatives of a particular car producer themselves, when they are allowed to open their own dealerships.

        •  What's the alternative? (0+ / 0-)

          We should just get rid of electric cars I suppose because a lot of people work in gas stations and electric cars would hurt their jobs.

          When we stop putting leaders from the past up on pedestals and ignoring their flaws, we can start seeing our present leaders for what they really are.

          by PhillyJeff on Mon Mar 17, 2014 at 05:38:29 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  It would be hypocritical (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    charliehall2

    If anyone were to criticize this using a "free market" argument then turn around and insist that government offer tax breaks or other incentives for electric cars.

  •  (Republican)American: no how/no way (0+ / 0-)

    decent wages don't eliminate jobs. Republicans eliminate jobs; and workers, and prospects, and then excuse it all and call for more austerity. there is no end to their ignorant, arrogant avarice. only political dinosaurs support their treachery.

    by renzo capetti on Sun Mar 16, 2014 at 11:00:51 AM PDT

  •  What will TX/AZ do to win Tesla's Giga-Factory? (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Eric Nelson, defluxion10, Odysseus

    Tesla just announced a huge battery-pack factory for their next generation EVs.

    Thousands of living-wage jobs.

    Four states are finalists - among them, Texas and Arizona. If they can come up with a good bid, of course...

    As Bubbanomics would put it: HAHAHAHAHAHA!

    It didn't take long for these culture-war asshats' decisions to come back and bite them in the ass.

  •  In no uncertain terms, this (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Eric Nelson, defluxion10, Odysseus, raboof, BYw
    Why have a bunch of high-pressure sleazy assholes represent your brand, when you can sell your own vehicles better?
    is exactly why I made the leap from wanting to be a dj and write radio ads to psychology.

    Why should cars - the second largest-ticket item most people buy - should be advertised by clowns screaming "hot hot hot!"?

    When I bought my last car, it was after tedious research.

    And the 'why' is so that we have a needless layer of 'middlemen' who do nothing but make money off other people's work.

    God knows what a Tesla would cost if you had to buy it from a clown.

    Legal means "good".
    [41984 | Feb 4, 2005]

    by xxdr zombiexx on Sun Mar 16, 2014 at 11:04:17 AM PDT

  •  You think a "true free market" (0+ / 0-)

    would create a sane world?

    Brilliant. Isn't there some website feature that needs fixing? How bout the search engine, which pretty much sucks.

  •  Can someone 'splain to me what the Tesla (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    grover

    showroom in Scottsdale is doing then? There's one in the mall, but I've read several times that AZ has blocked sales.

    stay together / learn the flowers / go light - Gary Snyder

    by Mother Mags on Sun Mar 16, 2014 at 11:10:04 AM PDT

    •  Customers look at cars, ask questions. (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Mother Mags, mconvente, BYw

      and test drive the cars in AZ. Then they send the deposit in via their online Tesla account at home. They also send in their down payment the same way. My guess is that they're then driving/flying to California or another state to take delivery when it's ready  -- or paying extra to have a car delivered to them at home.

      © grover


      So if you get hit by a bus tonight, would you be satisfied with how you spent today, your last day on earth? Live like tomorrow is never guaranteed, because it's not. -- Me.

      by grover on Sun Mar 16, 2014 at 12:19:54 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  really no different than the original (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        grover, BYw

        capitalist model for Wedgwood ceramics although test driving a teacup could be uncomfortable

        Warning - some snark may be above‽ (-9.50; -7.03)‽ eState4Column5©2013 "I’m not the strapping young Muslim socialist that I used to be" - Barack Obama 04/27/2013 (@eState4Column5).

        by annieli on Sun Mar 16, 2014 at 04:52:53 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  And a teacup goes zero to sixty in 4.5 minutes (0+ / 0-)

          Is very stylish and comes in lots of pretty colors and options, but lacks regenerative braking, navigation system and ranger service to help you maintain it.

          So exactly! Sort of!

          © grover


          So if you get hit by a bus tonight, would you be satisfied with how you spent today, your last day on earth? Live like tomorrow is never guaranteed, because it's not. -- Me.

          by grover on Sun Mar 16, 2014 at 09:16:38 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  One-sided tales tend to color the truth. (4+ / 0-)

    With regard to Tesla, enforcing these dealerships is indeed total horseshit, but the laws themselves were passed for good reason.

    In the bad old days, dealers would enter into an agree with the factory, invest considerable time and money into building a business, then, when things were going well, find themselves in competition with the factory or some new representatives of the factory.   The laws essentially required factories to honor their agreements with dealers.

    But -- that doesn't apply any time there are no dealers, and those laws should not be applied in a case like Tesla.

    It is the epitome of government interference with the market place.

    LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

    by dinotrac on Sun Mar 16, 2014 at 11:12:14 AM PDT

    •  Huh? (0+ / 0-)

      You said:

      It is the epitome of government interference with the market place.
      No, it's the epitome of marketplace interference in a free and democratic government.

      "If you are cast on a desert island with only a screwdriver, a hatchet, and a chisel to make a boat...go make the best one you can. It would be better if you had a saw, but you haven't." T.Roosevelt on politics.

      by NCJan on Sun Mar 16, 2014 at 01:51:04 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  ?? Maybe I was unclear, but I believe that (0+ / 0-)

        applying such a law to Tesla is a brutal government intrusion on the free market.

        One could argue that the law itself is a brutal government intrusion on the free market, but the original laws did serve to protect local businesses against the power of manufacturers who decided not to honor their business arrangements.  In that case, especially considering the differential ability to manipulate the legal system, such a law actually protects the market at least as much as intruding onto it.

        LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

        by dinotrac on Sun Mar 16, 2014 at 04:08:48 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  We are sort of on the same page (0+ / 0-)

          However, I just don't believe that there would be laws like this or government actions like this if powerful market interests didn't lobby the government to enact "brutal intrusion," or didn't pay to have people elected who will do their bidding.

          I do believe in sensible government regulation, such as the laws enacted during the Progressive era to prevent monopolies that stifle the so-called "free market."

          I also believe that we should take money and powerful corporate interests out of elections and out of how legislation is written and enacted.

          One vote should equal one vote. Period.

          "If you are cast on a desert island with only a screwdriver, a hatchet, and a chisel to make a boat...go make the best one you can. It would be better if you had a saw, but you haven't." T.Roosevelt on politics.

          by NCJan on Sun Mar 16, 2014 at 05:30:29 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  another easy loophole (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Eric Nelson, rtaylor352

    Tesla sets up demonstration sites and service centers,
    and then leases cars, on 5 Year closed end leases.

  •  Invisible hand, free market, blah blah blah.. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    grover, defluxion10

    .. and arguing that an auto dealership/retailer/middleman isn't really a middleman at all, but is really a consumer protection, because the dealerships have to compete for the lowest mark up rate.
    Iow's the middleman/dealership that gouges the least is vital marketplacecompetition, and that added profit layer benefits the consumer. - lol

    That is the dumbest argument against cutting out the middleman altogether - imo - but it gets even more screwy on video number three.

    Chris Christie hypocricy:  (short ad - sorry)

    Plausible deniability for Christie? Not. Christie's hand picked commission members:

      (short ad - sorry)

    And NJ President of the coalition of auto retailers Jim Appleton:
     (short ad - sorry)
    transcript @ link:  http://video.msnbc.msn.com/...

    lol -Jim Appleton.

    "this is not about consumer choice.you have no choice when you buy from Tesla"
    [snip]

    "this is really a consumer protection argument"

    No choice when buying directly from Tesla (?) WTF does that even mean? No choice which middleman/dealership to mark the price up?

    How about the strongest choice/consumer leverage of all -  to NOT but the car. What does Jim Appleton think; that dealerships control that choice too?

    Or this:

    "When you buy from Tesla  you buy from the factory. They say you eliminate the middle man. I hate that term, They Don't eliminate the middle man uh.. they Do eliminate the middle man but they don't eliminate the middle cost."
    But this is the BS exposed part:
    "It doesn't cost Tesla any less to retail that car. Meanwhile when you but from a new car dealer you can compete; four, five. six, dealerships, you compete for that price.."

     - emphasis added

    It doesn't cost Tesla any less to sell to a dealership?  Cost any less (?) - translation: Tesla can't sell their cars any cheaper to a dealership so by that reasoning it also should not "cost Tesla any less" or stop Tesla from selling cars as cheaply if they sell directly to customer.

    Also about the middleman angle; what Jim Appleton is saying is that people can compete for the smallest middleman price gouging. What Jim tries to gloss over is that threre wouldn't be any added "middleman cost" to begin with at all if the middleman was cut out altogether.

    After sale service is the money maker and having that market control is what the retailers desire.
    Why argue around that point, why not just come clean and say it; that service is important and dealerships can be useful in that role -  geez

    •  That guy is just full of it, (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Eric Nelson

      (And Im sure he knows it).

      This is just full of fail:

      The Tesla factory-owned store model destroys price competition and restricts consumer access to warranty and safety recall service.”
      We stopped by the showroom to ask a couple questions. While my husband was talking to the tech -- a service tech who was immediately made available -- I saw they had wheel locks, which I had wanted to get. The parts manager offered to put them on.

      They took our car into the service area, said they'd wash it too. Did we want a loaner to go get lunch in the meantime?

      We got our car back. It was hand washed, cleaned inside as well.

      And the wheel locks cost pretty much what I paid Nissan for some about 6 years ago.

      I've always liked both my Nissan dealers. The service departments treat me great, even the one here, where I moved (where I didn't buy my cars).

       But um, the level of service isn't quite the same.

      © grover


      So if you get hit by a bus tonight, would you be satisfied with how you spent today, your last day on earth? Live like tomorrow is never guaranteed, because it's not. -- Me.

      by grover on Sun Mar 16, 2014 at 12:37:27 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Elon Musk noted in his letter to NJ consumers (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    defluxion10

    that he doesn't think a company should try to profit when its products break.

    Auto servicing is a gigantic, ongoing ripoff, and more power to Tesla if they can do something about it.

    Musk also pointed out that electric cars require far less of that high-profit maintenance than gas cars do, making dealers less likely to promote them.

    What is valued is practiced. What is not valued is not practiced. -- Plato

    by RobLewis on Sun Mar 16, 2014 at 11:43:55 AM PDT

  •  Not simply a GOP / Dem thing (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    AlexDrew, sphealey

    I'd be careful simplifying this to evil GOP trying to squash cool new progressive/environmental company.  As others have noted, this law has been around for a long time and comes out of a Democratically controlled legislature.  And you don't see many leadership Dems from the state legislature coming out to support Musk over Christie.

    Or to take another example, Mass. and Rhode Island both have very strict liquor distribution laws, which among other things, have made it hard for local wineries to sell their wines to visitors.  In RI, it was flatly illegal for wineries to do so, which threatened to make it impossible for a local wine industry to have a shot.  The same is true for microbreweries -- rules make it impossible for them to fill growlers or to sell kegs direct at the brewery, anything going offsite has to go through one of the very small number of state-authorized distributors, who often don't even want to deal with a new, small brewery.

    When you look at the politics of it, it was mostly Democrats and labor unions arguing for the wholesale distributors' monopoly, and the Republicans (what few there are in MA/RI!) were generally supportive of allowing the fledgling microbreweries and wineries to direct sales on premises.

    •  Same in PA ... (0+ / 0-)

      My old home state has terrible liquor laws, with the state government controlling wine and spirits sales and clamping down on who can sell beer and how. Tom Corbett, the nation's worst governor, wanted to sell off the wine and spirits stores--just about the only good idea he's had--and Democrats and AFSCME, I think, vehemently opposed the sale.

      Granted, Corbett probably wanted to privatize these stories in the shittiest way possible benefiting the wealthiest, but the fact remains that there is no good reason for the state to be restricting the sale of alcohol so much by operating a limited network of stores. And that those jobs are good public union jobs has no bearing on whether this is a system that should be maintained.

    •  Public Health (0+ / 0-)

      Alcohol is highly addictive and destroys lives. Places like Canadian provinces where the public health is a public cost all sell alcohol from only government monopoly retailers.

      Cars are different.

      "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

      by DocGonzo on Sun Mar 16, 2014 at 07:30:11 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Not true. (0+ / 0-)

        The issue in those states is not a government retail monopoly, but government-licensed WHOLESALE monopolies.  That is, a monopoly wholesaler must be used to transport the alcohol from the producer to the retail establishment, which in MA often includes grocery stores, not just specalized liquor stores.  I'm not sure how moving the wine bottles from winery to Joe's Wines & Spirits on a "Boston Beverages" truck helps curb alcohol abuse more than moving the bottles on the winery's own truck.

        As for Canada, Canadian winemakers can sell bottles directly to visitors at tasting rooms at the wineries.  And I know at least some provinces (Quebec) allow beer and wine sales at regular grocery stores, not just state-run liquor stores.

  •  This is just capitalism (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    annieli

    That's what capitalists do. This is the end result of not enforcing anti-trust laws.

    None are so hopelessly enslaved, as those who falsely believe they are free. The truth has been kept from the depth of their minds by masters who rule them with lies. -Johann von Goethe

    by gjohnsit on Sun Mar 16, 2014 at 11:55:02 AM PDT

  •  Parallel to the insurance industry and Obamacare (0+ / 0-)

    The insurance industry really doesn't object to being forced to cover everyone, and actually likes the idea of selling insurance on the internet. It eliminated the middlemen.

    Insurance agents HATE Obamacare for that very reason. And agents who own their own agencies are typically wealthy and politically active.

    You know the rest of the story.

  •  christie and his minions (0+ / 0-)

    have been thugs and criminal types from the very start and all the dem mayors, unions, and others who should have known better see the error of their ways in supporting this bully because they believed his lies and promises.

    this should be a lesson to all of america with the agenda other gop governors are implementing across the nation that is so anti everything except for the elites and the bigots interests.  

    but as we know so well tell america what it wants to hear and it will vote against common sense and logic every time.

    save america defeat all republicans and conservatives

    •  I think a lot of Democratic people collaborated (0+ / 0-)

      with Christie out of fear more than respect or friendship. Now everyone knows how he was willing to play games with innocent commuters and storm-ravaged towns to help politically connected developers.  That shows you what a vindictive bully he is, I think people are afraid to cross him. But I think all the scandals will be his Achilles heel.

      Where are all the jobs, Boehner?

      by Dirtandiron on Sun Mar 16, 2014 at 02:07:04 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  It seems to me that all the laws for the (0+ / 0-)

    dealership system has to be unconstitutional for what possible arguments can be used before the courts that can support the system since there is no such system for Used Cars Lots dealing and selling for what-ever price they want even if the vehicle was just bought a few days before from a new vehicle dealership and Owners selling the vehicle they just bought say the day before from a New Auto Dealership in a private sell for whatever price the owner wants to even if it's just a for a dollar.

    •  Why? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      defluxion10
      It seems to me that all the laws for the dealership system has to be unconstitutional
      Which Constitution?  Certainly not the Federal one.

      Wikipedia: Commerce Clause

      The clause states that the United States Congress shall have power "To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes."
      There is no Constitutional requirement to support or reject any particular business model.  State constitutions may contain more specific requirements, but I don't know of any offhand.

      There may very well be economic relationships which make certain models attractive, but that's a completely different level of concern.

      -7.75 -4.67

      "Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose."

      There are no Christians in foxholes.

      by Odysseus on Sun Mar 16, 2014 at 01:26:43 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  It's all the Laws passed that protect this (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Eric Nelson

        business model in one kind of Business an that being Selling New Vehicles not Used Vehicles or Food or Tech or Clothing or well as far as I know the selling of any other merchandize is being protected by Laws except as trademark or copyright.

  •  So, eliminate the dealerships? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Major Kong

    Probably 1,000,000 people nationwide work in dealerships.

    Now there's a good democratic plan - push a business model that eliminates jobs.

    Is this a democratic site or what?

    •  Compete (0+ / 0-)

      The alternative isn't to eliminate the dealerships. Where that is a model (local services and salespeople) that consumers want, it will compete with the manufacturer-direct sales. Tesla also operates showrooms which employ people. But its cars are expensive, so it tries to cut costs like dealerships where it can. The higher prices go to other jobs in America that add more value, like car designers, battery manufacturers (in Michighan), etc.

      We don't have about 2/3 of a percent of the US labor force working in car dealerships as you said. But where people want to buy these high tech cars direct, their money is going to support much more productive jobs than those that are becoming at least slightly obsolete.

      "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

      by DocGonzo on Sun Mar 16, 2014 at 07:34:05 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  When Subaru introduced its BRZ sports car (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    yg17

    in Australia - the ONLY way you could buy it was thru the internetzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

    Fiat justitia ruat caelum "Let justice be done though the heavens fall."

    by bobdevo on Sun Mar 16, 2014 at 01:23:04 PM PDT

  •  Free Markets and Unicorns (0+ / 0-)

    are both mythological creatures. True Free Markets don't work, but is used as a rallying cry for class warfare. To keep Tesla out is to protect the elites and their system of dirty power. The elites will preach free market when workers wants a raise or have a chance to organize, or when the masses are tired of having a society being enslaved to the petroleum industry. When it comes to markets, labor wants their control, while the elites choose to control the markets for their own benefits, as well.

    The elites have had their way too long. If a rich man wants to become richer by creating a benefit for humanity, the market manipulating elites need to get out of the way.

    Living in the nightmare reality of working in the oilfields of South and West Texas.

    by Incarnate on Sun Mar 16, 2014 at 01:28:28 PM PDT

  •  Hey Tesla! (0+ / 0-)

    What did you think would happen when you decided to not endorse Chris Christie.

    Now there will be no Teslas...

    "stuck in Governor Chris Christie's Fort Lee New Jersey Traffic Jammmm."
     

    "Some men see things as they are and ask, 'Why?' I dream of things that never were and ask, 'Why not?"

    by Doctor Who on Sun Mar 16, 2014 at 01:59:45 PM PDT

  •  Tax revenue (0+ / 0-)

    Individual states can tax vehicles sold in their state, whether it's through a dealer or direct from the manufacturer.

    State-level tax revenue should be no argument in favor of the dealership model.

    •  And states don't rely on dealers (0+ / 0-)

      When you title a car in most states, you need to come up with the sales tax.  If the dealer is handling your paperwork, he has to come up with a check for the sales tax, as well as for stuff like registration fees.  (The paperwork fees that dealers add are actually a significant profit center.)

  •  Following Apple's lead (0+ / 0-)

    When Apple's company-owned retail outlets proved a huge success, Microsoft followed suit. I believe Samsung also either has retail stores or is in the planning stages.

  •  In other news (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    DocGonzo, 417els

    horse and buggy manufacturers demand market protection.

  •  I sat in a Tesla the other day at the mall, and I (0+ / 0-)

    had to get out of is as quickly as I could. I couldn't shake this major fear that the longer I sat in it, the more likely I was going to do something very spontaneous that I couldn't afford.

     In other words, the car is amazing. People in NJ just need to go over to New York or Pennsylvania instead. Or better yet, change the law that prevents from automakers from opening dealerships. Isn't that a free market principle?

  •  Would we be having this conversation (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    417els

    if it was Hummer instead of Tesla?

    Seriously.

    If the pilot's good, see, I mean if he's reeeally sharp, he can barrel that baby in so low... oh you oughta see it sometime. It's a sight. A big plane like a '52... varrrooom! Its jet exhaust... frying chickens in the barnyard!

    by Major Kong on Sun Mar 16, 2014 at 05:09:54 PM PDT

    •  Different Conversation (0+ / 0-)

      I think it matters whether we're defending a truly innovative boost to American manufacturing and stark reduction in Greenhouse pollution, rather than retreading military vehicles that get such bad mileage we need to invade Iraq to fuel them.

      "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

      by DocGonzo on Sun Mar 16, 2014 at 07:35:42 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Barnes and Noble (0+ / 0-)

    I remember when Amazon started selling books online. Barnes and Noble stores (and another bookseller) started closing all their brick and mortar stores in many cities.
    The Internet has "killed" so many jobs ... it is just a matter of time, until it hits the car industry too.

  •  The short happy life... (0+ / 0-)

    ...of Saturn was largely based upon its no haggle pricing.  That and the free donuts.  (Not HRs but real donuts.)

    I'm not always political, but when I am I vote Democratic. Stay Democratic, my friends. -The Most Interesting Man in the World

    by boran2 on Sun Mar 16, 2014 at 05:30:38 PM PDT

  •  Obama Bailed Out These Dealers (0+ / 0-)

    The "Detroit" bailout of the US car industry didn't shove money only at the Big 3 US carmakers. It also bailed out all the US car dealers, in their heavily lobbyist retailing industry.

    Maybe that was a good idea. Maybe they should have instead been allowed to fail, after most of them got rich off the car business' excesses (including selling SUV trucks that excessively pollute the Greenhouse) that were the car industry's part of the financial bubble/collapse. Maybe Obama should at least have extracted some reforms from that industry, whether to fix labor, environment or other problems whose solutions are within the dealers' reach.

    But however well we executed that bailout, these dealers are back in business. Sleazy business killing the electric cars that are by far the most promising innovation in their industry in many generations.

    Look forward, not back - and not too far forward.

    "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

    by DocGonzo on Sun Mar 16, 2014 at 07:10:35 PM PDT

    •  Not entirely (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      KilljoyTXinMI
      - - - - - - The "Detroit" bailout of the US car industry didn't shove money only at the Big 3 US carmakers. It also bailed out all the US car dealers, in their heavily lobbyist retailing industry. - - - - - -
      Not entirely.  The bankruptcy of GM in particular was structured to allow GM to shed a large number of under-performing dealerships, something it had wanted to do since the 80s but had been prohibited by state law from doing.  Those that remained were told what territories they could absorb/not absorb as well.  So some of the survivors may have been happy, some less so, and of course all the losers are furious at Obama.

      sPh

      •  The Losers are Gone (0+ / 0-)

        I don't see how the ones that survived could be anything less than grateful to Obama, even if some are less grateful than others.

        Of course that doesn't stop notoriously bad faith dealers from getting an inch, taking a yard and furious they didn't get a mile.

        "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

        by DocGonzo on Mon Mar 17, 2014 at 05:28:04 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Tesla (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    foreignthinker

    Free market?  What free market?  Where does a free market exist, enquiring minds would like to know?  All tesla is proposing is higher profit margins and monopolistic business practices.  The free market ranks right up there with the Easter Bunny and they use "THE FREE MARKET" for all kinds of nasty business behavior, like slave labor in East Asia.  Didn't Tesla get massive government investment capital?  Was that the "THE FREE MARKET"? Nope I'll take the independent dealer network.

  •  Research Gaps (0+ / 0-)

    Why can't Tesla avoid the franchise system?
    (Could it have something to do with consumer protection?)

    Dealer financial statement analysis... if dealers make little on the sale, and profits come mainly from service after the sale, why would TESLA want to sell its cars with no means of service after sale profits?

    Just a thought

    Watching history reenacted... to my chagrin.

    by bornorange on Mon Mar 17, 2014 at 06:09:00 AM PDT

  •  RE: Gov. Chistie (0+ / 0-)

    From a NJ resident. YOU GOTTA PROBLEM WIDDIS? translated to "watch your back" in world speak. Silence is even worse.

  •  The dealerships are worried about (0+ / 0-)

    keeping mid-tier talent on their sales staff.  The guy who gets the top commissions loves the system but go down to 3rd or 4th on the depth chart and the guaranteed salary looks pretty good.  Based on the system, dealerships need that guy to sell cars but they can't compete for his salary, hence government intervention.

    I'll always be...King of Bain...I'll always be...King of Bain

    by AZphilosopher on Mon Mar 17, 2014 at 04:15:02 PM PDT

  •  Stop with the Free Market meme (0+ / 0-)

    I do not disagree with the repugnance of the outcome, but please do not trot out "free market capitalism" every time something like this happens.

    There is no free market, just a meme draped around a desired market outcome. What you are really talking about is which commercial interest gets preferred treatment under the law.  This is not the first time the entrenched auto-players are enlisting their political lapdogs.  Are you too young to have even rented the movie Tucker?  

    These dealership laws have been used against the big three as well to stop direct internet sales. They are now just using them to their advantage.

  •  DK CHEERS FOR RICH GETTING RICHER!! (0+ / 0-)

    What, suddenly liberals are supposed to cheer when middle class sales jobs are eliminated so a billionaire can sell luxury cars to rich people and put more of the money in his pocket?
    GM created a customer-centered, no haggle sales network for Saturn that got rave reviews, and they did it for an affordable car. That they later sabotaged the effort does not make the owners of Tesla working class heroes for cutting out a new batch of jobs.

    Did I accidentally get a story from RedState.com? Because I don't remember Daily Kos championing the elimination of jobs for supposed "efficiency."

    Freelance Minion
    (and former car salesman)

    People do not kill people, LASER CATS kill people.

    by freelance minion on Mon Mar 17, 2014 at 07:46:10 PM PDT

    •  Shortsightedness on display (0+ / 0-)

      "That they later sabotaged the effort does not make the owners of Tesla working class heroes for cutting out a new batch of jobs."

      No, but it doesn't prevent them from becoming working-class heroes if left to their devices. By following their current sales paradigm, yes, heaven forefend, including selling directly to rich people, Tesla has the ability to dramatically INCREASE the overall work force at the manufacturing end. What's more, the price of their vehicles will eventually drop with increased production capacity. That will drive their price down, which in turn will increase demand for their automobiles.

      That's the American way, Freelance. Get over it.

      Be pretty if you can, be witty if you must, but be gracious if it kills you...Elsie de Wolfe

      by Hilltop Mama on Tue Mar 18, 2014 at 08:34:42 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Keep in mind... (0+ / 0-)

    The last car company that attempted to change the paradigm (Saturn) fell victim to infanticide. No, my friends, I'm afraid any change in the way sleezeballs cheat their customers will be thwarted at all costs. Sleezeballs always have fellow sleezeballs in government on their payroll.

    Be pretty if you can, be witty if you must, but be gracious if it kills you...Elsie de Wolfe

    by Hilltop Mama on Tue Mar 18, 2014 at 08:26:51 AM PDT

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