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Histogram of DW-Nominate scores of candidates endorsed by Daily Kos compared to all Democrats serving in the 113th Congress
(click for larger)
About a week ago, the folks at Third Way—the organization that tried to smear Elizabeth Warren as "catastrophically anti-business" during the height of her Senate campaign—laughably attacked Markos and this site for allegedly "folding up the big tent." The target of their ire was a post Markos wrote celebrating the larger, more progressive Democratic caucus in the Senate compared to the one we had a decade ago (you know, the one that was in the minority).

In a transparent bid for attention, the Third Way-ers willfully misinterpreted Markos to conclude he'd somehow become a liberal tea partier, hell bent on placing purity ahead of victory at all costs, and rooting for moderates to lose. Markos eviscerated this nonsense and, among other things, pointed to all the moderate candidates Daily Kos has supported over the years, like Alaska Sen. Mark Begich and former Virginia Sen. Jim Webb.

But Daily Kos has endorsed close to 200 different campaigns over the last decade, so is there any way to measure just how big the Daily Kos tent actually is? It turns out there is. Thanks to an ideology measurement system developed by political scientists called "DW-Nominate," we can compare the lifetime voting record of every single person who ever served in either the House or Senate, along a scale that ranges from -1 (most liberal) to 1 (most conservative), though in practice, today's Democrats don't range past 0.

So while we can't evaluate every candidate we've ever endorsed, around 45 office-seekers Daily Kos has supported have either held or won a seat in Congress at some point (typically after our endorsement, since we seldom back incumbents). That means we can find out all of their ideology scores, to give us a sense of the range of candidates Daily Kos has gotten behind over the years. (A full list is here.)

We can also find scores for every Democrat currently serving on Capitol Hill today, so that we can compare "Daily Kos Democrats" to the party as a whole. (That dataset can be found here.) And that's just what we've done in the chart at the top of this post.

This sort of graph is known as a histogram, and it plots the number of individuals with a given ideology score at any point. Each bar represents an increment of .02 on the ideology scale, and the higher the bar, the more people who fall into that range. The entire 113th Congress is shown in gray, stretching from California Rep. Barbara Lee on the left (with a score of -0.722) to West Virginia Sen. Joe Manchin on the right (-0.089). Daily Kos' endorsees, meanwhile, are depicted in orange.

As you can see, we've truly run the gamut when it comes to endorsements, from Rep. Donna Edwards, whom we helped win a dark blue seat in Maryland, to Rep. Patrick Murphy, a freshman who represents a seat Mitt Romney carried in South Florida. It would be hard to stretch your tent out much further than that.

And something else should pop out, too: that orange spike along the right side of the chart. Whereas the center of the full Democratic caucus is somewhere in the middle, Daily Kos' endorsed candidates lean to the right compared to Congress as a whole! No one tell Third Way! But seriously, what does that mean? We're obviously not a bunch of crypto right-wingers, so it turns out there are some interesting explanations for what's going on here.

First and foremost, as we alluded above, Daily Kos almost always endorses challengers, not incumbents, and we typically endorse in competitive, Republican-held seats. Because those kinds of districts and states tend to be much swingier (if not outright red), the Democrats who win them won't hew to the party line as often as someone sitting in a safely blue seat. In other words, the bluer the seat, the more reliably progressive the office-holder is likely to be—but accepting that sometimes it takes a more moderate Democrat to beat a Republican has always been a part of this site's ethos.

Our approach has changed over the years, though. Back during the Bush era, we readily supported almost anyone with a "(D)" after his or her name. Since then, we've adopted our mantra of "more and better Democrats," which has led us to be somewhat less heterodox in whom we endorse. So it's possible that were we to consider them today, some of the candidates depicted in orange, like ex-Rep. Ben Chandler of Kentucky or ex-Rep. Stephanie Herseth Sandlin of South Dakota, wouldn't be a good fit for Daily Kos.

But even after we started asking potential endorsees a few core questions about their beliefs a number of years ago, we've never maintained any kind of strict litmus test, and we've always been open to a broad range of Democrats. That's why we've continued to get behind people like Murphy and Begich—both of whom beat notorious Republicans on difficult turf, and both of whom either get us closer to the majority or help keep us there.

Indeed, anyone who does even a little bit of research into Daily Kos' history would find us driving in stakes beneath almost every pole holding up the Democratic tent. We've always pushed for real progressive change, but we also know it takes a Democratic majority to make that possible. Whether the likes of Third Way understand that is irrelevant, though. What matters is that we understand it, because we still have lots of work to do. Let's get to it.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Third Way? (23+ / 0-)

    No Way!!!!!!!

    No Labels?

    No Way!!!!!

    Free markets would be a great idea, if markets were actually free.

    by dweb8231 on Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 06:19:36 AM PDT

  •  I love this. Great use of (21+ / 0-)

    DW-Nominate.

    I've been following elections closely here for 10 years, so I remember Jim Webb, et al, but I'm still a bit surprised by the finding. Your explanations make sense, though. Ultimately, the most progressive candidates tend to run in the bluest districts, thus not needing our help.

    You won't believe what this gay dolphin said to a homeless child. First you'll be angry, but then at the 1:34 mark your nose will bleed tears of joy.

    by cardinal on Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 06:25:58 AM PDT

  •  DK FP leans to the right of Dem Party (26+ / 0-)

    This graph proves what many regulars here have long noticed. The FP leans somewhat to the right of the center of the Dem party. The 3rd way is a corporate Republican movement to subvert the Democratic party.

    DK is a big tent, but it is in no way a left leaning tent given the obvious rightward tilt of the U.S. political parties in comparison to the parties of other developed nations.

    “Industry does everything they can and gets away with it almost all the time, whether it’s the coal industry, not the subject of this hearing, or water or whatever. They will cut corners, and they will get away with it. " Sen. Jay Rockefeller, D, WVa

    by FishOutofWater on Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 06:29:30 AM PDT

    •  Where are you getting this? (18+ / 0-)

      that the FP'ers lean more rightwards? Are you extrapolating from the chart?
      David gave a very good explanation for that rightward lean on the candidates we've supported over the years:

      First and foremost, as we alluded above, Daily Kos almost always endorses challengers, not incumbents, and we typically endorse in competitive, Republican-held seats. Because those kinds of districts and states tend to be much swingier (if not outright red), the Democrats who win them won't hew to the party line as often as someone sitting in a safely blue seat.

      Your beliefs don't make you a better person. Your behavior does.

      by skohayes on Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 06:34:42 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  He grabbed it off the goal posts and they sped by. (9+ / 0-)
        ...given the obvious rightward tilt of the U.S. political parties in comparison to the parties of other developed nations.

        Art is the handmaid of human good.

        by joe from Lowell on Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 06:52:20 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Look at the graph & compare U.S. to world (6+ / 0-)

          Then examine the rightward drift of American politics since FDR, JFK and LBJ & Dem controlled Congresses implemented progressive legislation.

          “Industry does everything they can and gets away with it almost all the time, whether it’s the coal industry, not the subject of this hearing, or water or whatever. They will cut corners, and they will get away with it. " Sen. Jay Rockefeller, D, WVa

          by FishOutofWater on Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 08:59:03 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  The FP is pretty much centrist Dem party, IMO (5+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Choco8, YucatanMan, chuckvw, ZhenRen, TheMomCat

            Toe explain what I left off above, Kos was very slow to even write about Occupy. The FP has been very slow to criticize the NSA's surveillance state. Kos invoked "white privilege" while smacking down regulars here who are concerned about NSA's surveillance. That was a WTF moment for me. My opinion on the FP is based on my personal observations and are just my opinion, FWIW. Your mileage may vary.

            “Industry does everything they can and gets away with it almost all the time, whether it’s the coal industry, not the subject of this hearing, or water or whatever. They will cut corners, and they will get away with it. " Sen. Jay Rockefeller, D, WVa

            by FishOutofWater on Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 09:08:05 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  The front page is a small part of (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              nickrud, serendipityisabitch, edrie

              Daily Kos- I think even Markos would agree with me on that one. I don't wait for the FP'ers to have an opinion on something like the Occupy movement (of which there are 121 different variations of the tag I searched, "Occupy Wall Street" and thousands of diaries) and I know that you don't, so I wonder why you worry about what Markos thinks about anything?
              Though honestly, I have to agree with him about the NSA spying, because when you're living from paycheck to paycheck, spying by the NSA is way down on my list of important issues.  Climate change, the minimum wage, my rights as a woman far outweigh what the NSA (and Google and Facebook and Amazon, and Pinterest, and all those other sites) is doing with my data.
              And may I note that because some people don't care about the NSA as much as you do, or think that other things are more important, doesn't make them centrist.

              Your beliefs don't make you a better person. Your behavior does.

              by skohayes on Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 10:23:27 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Wow I totally agree with you. Half of the (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                edrie

                People don't even know about the NSA hell they don't even know who the Koch's are. The MSM just totally SUCKS!
                We need to start attacking the networks and make it impossible for them not to justify what they are doing.  Can you imagine if a handful of left leaning billionaire tried to buy elections they would be MSM outrage!

                We are not powerless!! "Activism is the rent I pay for living on this planet."– Alice Walker

                by nocynicism on Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 12:10:57 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

    •  I'd say it's more like this: (24+ / 0-)
      We've always pushed for real progressive change, but we also know it takes a Democratic majority to make that possible.
      To many of us, this is common sense, having nothing to do with the lean of the DKFP.

      "A typical vice of American politics is the avoidance of saying anything real on real issues." Theodore Roosevelt.

      by StellaRay on Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 06:38:44 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  That's a flawed assumption. (7+ / 0-)

        A Democratic majority that pushes right of center legislation that helps the corporate oligarch strangle the prosperity of the country is in no way helping progressive causes.

        That's just an end around for the corporate oligarchs to get their way.

        Now a strong, willing to fight, progressive minority demanding congress lean its way in order to get legislation passed, well that would be a different means to a better, progressive end.

        Something for pragmatists to think about.

        And yes, the time is now for bare knuckle, down and dirty, contentious fights in Congress.

        If not now, when? If not at all, then how will we ever change the dynamic that's ruining the economic and environmental stability of this country? Of the world?

        Income gap under a democratic majority? Continued to grow.

        Carbon dioxide in the atmosphere under a democratic majority? Continued to increase.

        Why? Because there were too many corporate-friendly, bought-and-paid-for, right-of-center democrats driving the debate and winning people over to their side to get laws passed.

        Enough already with this "we must have a majority" simplistic thinking in the age of pervasive corruption. We're in a world of hurt, losing strategies must be abandoned and new ones adopted.

        Let's start cleaning house of these corporatists.


        "We must make our choice. We may have democracy, or we may have wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." - Louis Brandies

        by Pescadero Bill on Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 09:13:37 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  It's "Democratic Wonder Bread" (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          greenbastard, PhilJD, Pescadero Bill

          Who wants a smallish loaf of whole grain liberalism when you can get a truck full of Wonder Bread Democrats for the same price?

        •  But are you willing to fight? (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          nocynicism, StellaRay, Sylv

          Who are the candidates that are being supported by progressives for 2014? Where are the diaries pushing these progressive candidates from the left? Who are the candidates YOU support? Who are the candidates you want to primary with a progressive?
          Let's name some names and get moving. Complaining about corporatist Dems doesn't get progressives elected.

          Your beliefs don't make you a better person. Your behavior does.

          by skohayes on Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 10:36:53 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Well, the answer to that is obvious... (0+ / 0-)
            Where are the diaries pushing these progressive candidates from the left?
            Let's see: they get written, and then they slide off the comment list on the front page, unnoticed. Unless they are overly critical of Clinton (a little bit is okay), in which case they get lots of flames and then slide off the comment list mostly unnoticed.

            Because we don't like 'radicals' here. We like nice, safe centrists.

    •  I don't agree (16+ / 0-)

      What the histogram doesn't show is when those center-right Democrats were endorsed. My guess would be that most were endorsed in the early days of DailyKoS. David points to two examples Sandlin and Chandler, both 2004.

      Those were the dark days of Bush when any Democrat was acceptable.

      More and Better started with Joe Lieberman/Ned Lamont (2006). And since 2008, there's been zero tolerance for "More" on this blog from an endorsement standpoint.

      With respect to front pagers, I wouldn't consider Barbara or Meteor Blades or Joan or any of our AA front pagers as center right of the Dem party.

      KOS: "Mocking partisans focusing on elections? Even less reason to be on Daily Kos."

      by fcvaguy on Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 06:43:02 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  fish, i don't agree (9+ / 0-)

      this is 10 years worth of data, and it appears to be skewed by what happened in the 2006 election cycle. I don't think you can make a fair inference about the front pagers now based on 8 years ago. Many of our current front pagers were not front pagers then, and many of those front pagers have moved on.

      Dawkins is to atheism as Rand is to personal responsibility. uid 52583 lol

      by terrypinder on Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 06:58:49 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I agree the chart is skewed by 2006, and (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        FishOutofWater, YucatanMan, chuckvw

        I agree that the front pagers today are more conservative than before.

        I will not vote for Hillary. What we need is a Democrat in the White House.

        by dkmich on Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 08:18:41 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  i don't. (6+ / 0-)

          Meteor Blades isn't conservative, BarbinMD isn't, and now that I think about it some of the front pagers from times past like Dana Houle and Page Van der Linden aren't conservatives either.

          Armando certainly isn't, and neither is BrooklynBadBoy.

          Bill in Portland Maine wasn't conservative then and isn't now.

          I'm really not sure where people are getting this from.

          Dawkins is to atheism as Rand is to personal responsibility. uid 52583 lol

          by terrypinder on Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 08:28:03 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Compare the FP to Jess Raddack on the NSA (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Choco8, greenbastard, YucatanMan, PhilJD

            I have been appalled by the degree of acceptance by Markos and the FP of NSA activities that undermine the Bill of Rights. I'm certainly not asserting that MB or BiPM are conservative. That would be pretty silly.

            “Industry does everything they can and gets away with it almost all the time, whether it’s the coal industry, not the subject of this hearing, or water or whatever. They will cut corners, and they will get away with it. " Sen. Jay Rockefeller, D, WVa

            by FishOutofWater on Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 09:26:14 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Apples to oranges (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              nickrud, Sylv

              Jesselyn Raddack writes about specific subjects, as she is a Director of National Security & Human Rights at the Government Accountability Project.
              Our front pagers write on a much wider variety of subjects.

              Your beliefs don't make you a better person. Your behavior does.

              by skohayes on Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 10:45:27 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  Hmm (0+ / 0-)

            You make all these assertions about who is 'conservative' and who isn't, as if it were some kind of light switch.

            Do you believe that there are only two kinds of people, conservatives and liberals, and that if you aren't one you're the other?

            Or possibly you believe that our front pagers are exactly as liberal as it is reasonable to be, and that nobody more liberal is a reasonable person? Or, at any rate, should be represented on the front page of dKos?

            On a scale of 1 to 10, where 1 is the most right-wing it's possible to be without actively employing zombie Hitler, and 10 is as left-wing as it is possible to be without lighting candles to the ghost of Che Guevara, where would you put the front pagers?

          •  These two come to mind. (0+ / 0-)

            Egberto Willies and Ian Reifowitz

            It seems to me that I've seen them on the front page.  Am I wrong?  

            I will not vote for Hillary. What we need is a Democrat in the White House.

            by dkmich on Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 11:44:36 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  And the "far left Greens" take rightwing (0+ / 0-)

      money to peel votes away from Democrats...

      We are not powerless!! "Activism is the rent I pay for living on this planet."– Alice Walker

      by nocynicism on Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 12:00:45 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  What I am gathering is that some people (13+ / 0-)

    are giving "Third Way" far more attention than they deserve.

    Answering to Third Way is no more important then answering to baggers orcreationists.

    What a waste of time. Third Way, as far as I am concerned, was created to waste time while trying to over-shape the policy discussions to republican/oligarchy tones.

    Shysters to the core: it's all they can be.

    this country needs 20+ real political parties.

    Or we need to get money out of politics. (Obese probability)

    Legal means "good".
    [41984 | Feb 4, 2005]

    by xxdr zombiexx on Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 06:29:35 AM PDT

  •  Could we use networks to win House? (4+ / 0-)

    In the IL 18th a Mennonite farmer who ran as a Republican in the last primary won over a credible Democrat. This happens because voters have such low information. Our nominee is not far from a Tea Party candidate in this race.

    If we had Obama for America using its resources to communicate within congressional districts. this would not have happened. Dems could motivate and get voter participation up to levels to win back the House.

    Why is every social media effort simply a top down money raising effort? Does no one actually want to win back congress?

    Miller now candidate

    Facebook of Mellon

    The past, present, and future are equally compelling; none of the three are easily understood.

    by Grey Panther on Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 06:30:14 AM PDT

  •  Great histogram (5+ / 0-)

    And from my standpoint and time I've been here, I'd agree, DailyKoS has endorsed candidates across the entire spectrum but has become less heterodox over the past few years or so.

    So, if someone were to claim DailyKoS's big tent has become a bit smaller over the past few years, that would be an accurate statement.

    KOS: "Mocking partisans focusing on elections? Even less reason to be on Daily Kos."

    by fcvaguy on Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 06:30:33 AM PDT

  •  I think Democrats generally should take the DK (17+ / 0-)

    approach which is far from a tea party ethos, and elect the most progressive candidate who can actually win. Thats how you build a majority party over time. But, there are some people we can jettison because there are opportunities elsewhere. Like id trade out Manchin and let him lose jn favor of getting the Illinois seat back. Id let Pryor go in favor of getting the Nevada seat.

    We can get rid of a lot of super red seats and go after much more winnable seats with better candidates. We got to stop relying on GOP crazy to win.

  •  Thanks for this. (5+ / 0-)

    They Killed Will? Those Bastards!

    by blueoregon on Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 06:31:26 AM PDT

  •  This does exist here (7+ / 0-)

    as a noisy minority.  

    a liberal tea partier, hell bent on placing purity ahead of victory at all costs, and rooting for moderates to lose.
    Third Way was doing the same old thing that wingnuts have long done by pointing to things being said on the site to claim this is Markos' position or the official position of the site.  As if it's possible to have an official position on this site.  It's just a cheap trick and it worked because they got their headline and they got a response.  

    When truth is only a matter of opinion, advantage goes to the liars.

    by Sun dog on Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 06:31:35 AM PDT

  •  It's pretty difficult to argue with a histogram (6+ / 0-)

    so I'm totally buying everything this diary has to say.

    But did anyone else notice how the tall yellow bar right above the "more conservative" label look a lot like the "more conservative" fringe giving the rest of the graphic a big middle finger?   Maybe it's just me.

  •  I'd still support Stephanie Herseth Sandlin (7+ / 0-)

    were she to try for a South Dakota seat.

    I wouldn't be super thrilled--but as SD won't be electing Bernie Sanders any time soon . . .

    And God said, "Let there be light"; and with a Big Bang, there was light. And God said "Ow! Ow My eyes!" and in a flash God separated light from darkness. "Whew! Now that's better. Now where was I. Oh yea . . ."

    by Pale Jenova on Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 06:34:38 AM PDT

  •  you might want to put (4+ / 0-)

    "this is 10 years worth of data" in the caption of the graphic, as a courtesy to those who won't bother to read the explanation below (which is very good by the way, much of the '06 wave were moderate and conservative dems).

    Dawkins is to atheism as Rand is to personal responsibility. uid 52583 lol

    by terrypinder on Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 06:35:07 AM PDT

  •  Pragmatic reality (4+ / 0-)

    As long as the "new" representative or senator votes with the Democratic conference, it's all good.

    In the Senate, if Sen. Reid can herd 60 cats to overcome GOP obstruction why would anyone care if 10 of them are Blue Dogs or a couple of socialists or even a few complete rednecks?

    In the House, Speaker Pelosi only needs one more than the Tali-baggers. Even 17 Blue Dogs who would caucus with her completely changes everything.

    More Democrats for sure--better . . . hopefully and maybe.

    We're all just working for Pharoah.

    by whl on Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 06:36:48 AM PDT

    •  ummm, no. (9+ / 0-)

      There are more house seats were going to be able to win with time. Only jerrymander is keeping them afloat and it wont last. The last thing we need is more Blue Dogs. Thats a shaky foundation on which to build because youll never get to govern effectively. The Obama first term is a textbook lesson in fucking up policymaking because of Blue Dogs. We should never let that happen ever again.

      Weve got a pretty solid House Caucus and itll get better by winning some solid blue seats held by republicand and some marginal seats with excellent candidates. Blue Dogs, however, are not our friends or allies.

      •  Exactly (7+ / 0-)

        In my mind, "More" is useless if you get a blue dog who shows zero loyalty to the Dem Party and actually votes with Republicans like the way they did between 2008-2010.

        KOS: "Mocking partisans focusing on elections? Even less reason to be on Daily Kos."

        by fcvaguy on Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 06:58:30 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  More is only important until you get to 51 (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          fcvaguy

          Once you get the majority and get to set the agenda, then the extra votes are largely useless since you are probably not getting to 60.

          I would argue that Democrats would have been better off with say 55 non Blue Dogs in 2009-2011 than nearly 60   3-5 Blue Dogs - since that set expectations that a) they could go it alone and b) that they could do anything they wanted.

      •  Blue dog, yellow dog, any Democratic dog (4+ / 0-)

        It's up to Pelosi + Hoyer and Reid + Durbin to keep the "bad dogs" away from the levers of power . . . as in committee and sub-committee chairs. Plus, sometimes issues come up where no one could have predicted that what appeared to be a "normal" Democrat would turn tail and run.

        If a Blue Dog Democrat can win in Arkansas or Kentucky, etc., I'm all for it.

        We're all just working for Pharoah.

        by whl on Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 07:05:27 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  good point (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Sylv

          that was catastrophic in 2008. Example: Ben Nelson, Joe Lieberman. UGH

          KOS: "Mocking partisans focusing on elections? Even less reason to be on Daily Kos."

          by fcvaguy on Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 07:20:40 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Medicare for all was doomed due to (0+ / 0-)

            Firebaggers attacking Lieberman's wife before
            his vote.  And Anthony Weiner bragging how we were plotting single payer.  Imo.  Interestingly they are both gone.

            We are not powerless!! "Activism is the rent I pay for living on this planet."– Alice Walker

            by nocynicism on Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 12:35:46 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  There were those blue dogs like Blanche Lincoln (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          fcvaguy, shaharazade, Sylv

          and Ben Nelson and whatever the hell you would call Joe Liebermann who threatened to vote with the Republicans if there was a public option and who threatened to vote with Rs for a filibuster on other issues as well.  So blue dogs are not always reliably voting with Democrats as seen by several blue dogs in the House who often voted with the Republicans and against ACA and against getting rid of DADT and so on.

          Keystone Liberals on Twitter @ KeystoneLibs , Join PA Liberals at http://keystoneliberalsforum.aimoo.com/

          by wishingwell on Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 07:39:48 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Preventing the gerrymander (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        fcvaguy, charliehall2, brooklynbadboy

        means taking back some governorships and a number of State Houses. This will involve supporting some really terrible Dem candidates, who can be relied on to support the Party on redistricting, but whose views on many issues - especially social issues will often be appalling.

        That's harsh, but that's the only way we get control of redistricting in 2020. Not every Dem candidate will require holding one's nose, but a number of them will.

        Here's my take on it - the revolution will not be blogged, it has to be slogged. - Deoliver47

        by OIL GUY on Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 07:47:25 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Go read the comments in the old (11+ / 0-)

    Occupy posts.

    The hippie punching here is EPIC, which can be seen in the comments of any post that challenges the 1%.

    At least try before you toot your own horn mmkay?

  •  Blanche Lincoln now works for Sheldon Adelson btw. (10+ / 0-)

    Im so glad we got rid of her. Best thing thats happened in years.

    Sometimes its best to just get rid of these people and let the GOP have the seat.

  •  This is fine. You win the point. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    fcvaguy, Choco8, Sylv

    My point is this: Bill and Hillary Clinton are known as 'Third-Way'-ers. Bill Clinton has so far been the best President to serve in my lifetime.

    I don't like the Third Way much any more. They have helped moved the country further to the right. When liberals had ground to give, compromise to make, back in the 90s, it also helped the economy. All boats rose with the tide Bill Clinton rode during his terms of office; 25% of ALL African Americans came out of poverty and into the middle class on his watch. Jobs exploded. Wages did, too, as well as education. The economy functioned as it's supposed to on his watch.

    Then the nation kept moving to the right, and we haven't stopped since. Obama has not stopped this momentum. It was Bush's natural environment. We have a real economic emergency on our hands, and if you want to blame the Third Way, you'd better point a finger or two at Obama's weakness in the same direction.

    I don't see that very often on the front page.

    "I feel a lot safer already."--Emil Sitka

    by DaddyO on Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 06:41:52 AM PDT

    •  In other respects (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      The Dead Man, Sylv

      Clinton didn't fare so well - he didn't blink an eye throwing gays under the bus. And, the utter collapse and failure of his health care initiative really set us back.

      KOS: "Mocking partisans focusing on elections? Even less reason to be on Daily Kos."

      by fcvaguy on Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 07:23:57 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  A lot of that supposed prosperity has another name (6+ / 0-)

      It's called the "dot-com" bubble.  Which burst in 2000.

      Bill Clinton did virtually nothing for the environment.  

      And then there's NAFTA.

      At least he didn't get us into a major war.

    •  By the nation (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ChuckChuckerson, jbsoul

      do you mean the people? The rightward by-partisan swing was aided and abetted by the Clinton's inevitable DLC/Third Way so called centrist or moderate remaking of the Democratic Party. The boats did not rise for ordinary people. Big dog did feel our pain as they cranked up the bubble machine and knocked down all the barriers that protected people from the wolves of Wall Street and the greedy multinationals. The economy did not function as it was supposed to it paved the highway for the oligarchical collectivists to take the Third Way and call it moderate.  

      If your going to point your finger at Obama's administration take a look the people that run it.  They are largely Rubanites and Clinton administration retreads. From NAFTA to the TPP all boats that rose are manned by the globalizing deregulating privatizing Visigoths that now inevitably rule Axelrod's 'the world as we find it'. 'The bubbles that the Clinton machine created were not real and evaporated spectacularly as bubbles will do.

      The country may have lost it's mind and direction and turned rightward but poll after poll shows that the growing majority of the population is not moving rightward.  Why do you think Obama and the Dems we're given the majority and elected after the shock and awe of the truly disastrous anti-democratic Bush regime. The Democratic machine blew off their majority and here we sit arguing about the skewed ideological spectrum that calls real Democratic/democratic values and governance far leftie or purist.  

      Left,center, right are meaningless when the owners of the place are off the chart and all work for the greater good of the 1% globally and austerity is touted as the inevitable way forward. The looming fiscal cliffs of mass deception require that we all sacrifice for their insane race to the top. Our only choice has become do you want a vagina probe along with your austerity.  Moderate my ass.  

  •  I'd like to see a series of histograms... (9+ / 0-)

    depicting DKos's endorsements in each election cycle.

    The shift left since the Bush years is obvious to me, but there is a small minority of people on this site who seem to have dreamed up a Bush-era golden age of Daily Kos, when the site was a font of left-wing purity untainted by mere practical considerations.

    I remember the glowing pieces about Schweitzer. Heck, I can remember when NRA member Howard Dean was the leftist alternative.

    I can also remember when the front page was full-on endorsing the war in Afghanistan and urging the Bush administration to fight al Qaeda. Now, the Afghan surge and the drone strikes are more-or-less universally denounced.

    I think it's something in human nature, or at least some humans' nature, to view things as perpetually getting worse, like the way people continued to view crime as getting worse throughout the 1990s and 2000s.

    Art is the handmaid of human good.

    by joe from Lowell on Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 06:44:37 AM PDT

    •  Howard Dean (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      poco, joe from Lowell, Sylv, IM

      This site was an extension of the Dean campaign. He got full throated support from the left here. However, Dean was a conservative Democrat. He would never get an endorsement from the DKOS left in 2016. It will be interesting to see because he has made noises about running.

      KOS: "Mocking partisans focusing on elections? Even less reason to be on Daily Kos."

      by fcvaguy on Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 07:26:02 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  He was arguably to the right of John Kerry overall (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        fcvaguy

        I think of him as a pretty unorthodox figure who is difficult to pigeon-hole into a single spot on the political spectrum, rather than as a conservative Democrat, but the point is, he certainly wasn't some flaming liberal.

        Art is the handmaid of human good.

        by joe from Lowell on Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 09:49:20 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  There has never been any purity here (0+ / 0-)

      Purity is just an accusation used by certain people here to attack folks who have some principles.

      “Industry does everything they can and gets away with it almost all the time, whether it’s the coal industry, not the subject of this hearing, or water or whatever. They will cut corners, and they will get away with it. " Sen. Jay Rockefeller, D, WVa

      by FishOutofWater on Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 09:14:25 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Lack of principles is just an accusation some.... (0+ / 0-)

        people use to attack those who temper their principles with practical considerations.

        Your last few comments leave me wondering: do you ever write about political issues anymore, instead of just having pie fights with Those Bad Liberals On The Internet?

        Art is the handmaid of human good.

        by joe from Lowell on Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 09:50:43 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Thanks, David (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    freakofsociety, Sylv

    I kind of suspected this was so, but thanks for documenting its validity.  Of course, in a world where creationists' demands to be given equal time with science are taken seriously, facts don't matter among many.

    I believe DK has always been kind to conservadems when we need them, Markos' hyperbole that Jon Tester was "dead to [him]" after a particularly offensive vote the crewcut one cast notwithstanding.  Markos might not even remember that.  We're good and polite here most of the time but everybody falls short of the mark every now and then.  

    The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. -- John Kenneth Galbraith

    by Kangaroo on Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 06:49:55 AM PDT

  •  Third Way accuses Dailykos of being liberal, and (16+ / 0-)

    the response is an emphatic "no we're not!"

    Ha ha ha. Now we know Dailykos has gone beltway.

    Typical modern response from Democrats.

    Rather than embrace being called liberal, run from it.

    "If you don't sin, then Jesus died for nothing!" (on a sign at a Mardi Gras parade in New Orleans)

    by ranger995 on Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 06:51:58 AM PDT

    •  The DK is about (10+ / 0-)

      electing Democratic majorities which short of revolution, is the only real path to more progressive legislation. I'm not interested in embracing my liberalism for the sake of it, I'm interested in getting a house and a senate where progressive policies have a chance to be be heard and voted on.

      "A typical vice of American politics is the avoidance of saying anything real on real issues." Theodore Roosevelt.

      by StellaRay on Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 06:59:41 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  You don't even understand my comment. (11+ / 0-)

        If someone calls you a liberal, the response should not be to post your conservative credentials.

        It's not an insult to be a liberal, you shouldn't run from the label.

        That comments has nothing to do with electoral politics, it has to do with being afraid of being characterized as liberal.

        "If you don't sin, then Jesus died for nothing!" (on a sign at a Mardi Gras parade in New Orleans)

        by ranger995 on Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 07:06:18 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Because everyone knows (16+ / 0-)

        that the shortest route to more progressive legislation is to elect conservative Democrats.  After all, the so-called "left" has believed in this for the past thirty years, and look at all the incredible success they've had!

        No, wait...

        "Assume man to be man and his relationship to the world to be a human one: then you can exchange love only for love, trust for trust" -- Karl Marx

        by Cassiodorus on Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 07:19:07 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Good point (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          serendipityisabitch

          The real way to get progressive policies is to go far enough left that you never get Senate majorities.

        •  It's not that simple. (5+ / 0-)

          You're creating a straw man here. No one here is interested in electing conservative Democrats. Some however, are interested in a Democratic majority and will suffer a less than ideal candidate to get there, most often in a deep purple or red
          locale.

          We totally agree there needs to be more progressive candidates, but that needs to happen from bottom up. Democrats have been bad all around in creating farm teams ready to step up to the plate in local elections. The GOP has been very good at it.

          We can't just scream for more liberal candidates, we have to build the pool. That's a long hard slog many don't have the stomach or time for.

          "A typical vice of American politics is the avoidance of saying anything real on real issues." Theodore Roosevelt.

          by StellaRay on Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 08:12:48 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I rather suspect... (4+ / 0-)
            We can't just scream for more liberal candidates, we have to build the pool. That's a long hard slog many don't have the stomach or time for.
            that it's a much easier slog than you all think it is.  The fact of the matter is that "more and better Democrats" around here means "publish a lot of STFU and The Republicans Are Worse Diaries," and that, after thirty years of this "strategy," pretending to be liberal has become easier than the real thing.

            "Assume man to be man and his relationship to the world to be a human one: then you can exchange love only for love, trust for trust" -- Karl Marx

            by Cassiodorus on Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 10:08:12 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  No, I don't think it's easy (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Sylv

              or quick.

              It takes a very activist base to show up at school board meetings, county supervisor meetings etc, etc. It takes a very activist base to canvas for positions so seemingly small that voter turn out is minimal. It takes a very activist base to be vetting local progressive candidates all the time, day in, day out, year in year out.

              I have done this, showed up at the meetings, and voted in small off elections, and let me tell you, not many progressives are participating at that level. And I can tell you republicans are generally better represented at this level in my experience, and I live in a blue state.

              Currently, the Koch brothers are in the midst of buying a candidate for a country supervisor position in Ironwood Wisconsin---a tea partier who will grease the wheels for more mining in this beautiful area. They are flushing money into this small race no one knows about.

              Their opposition? A very small rag tag group of locals speaking up for the environment. The Kochs against 4 locals.

              No, it's not easy and it's not quick. And frankly, it ain't going to happen through this blog, and I find it extremely tedious
              to hear about how differences of opinion here add up to being told to STFU. We experience this place very differently.

              Pie fights on the Daily Kos are mostly dancing on the head of pin, and until I see more progressives elbowing in at a local level, with organized movement that can show up at a place like Ironwood w/little notice, I am not as optimistic as I'd like to be about building the depth of the movement we need.

              "A typical vice of American politics is the avoidance of saying anything real on real issues." Theodore Roosevelt.

              by StellaRay on Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 03:05:14 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  As I suggested in my diary on the topic: (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                triv33

                http://www.dailykos.com/...

                Now, the Democratic Party might want to do some work on this matter of "standing for something," unless it's prepared to jump in immediately to stand for the sequester or drone warfare in addition to its usual "we're not Republicans" repertoire.  This is not to say that individual Democrats don't stand for anything -- a good number of them do -- it's just that as Democratic Party elected officials have climbed up the ladders of power and prestige, their claims to stand for something appear to have been rather severely compromised, as the 2011 budget debacle revealed.
                The folks at the top of the Party are no doubt a great hindrance to anything the grassroots people want to do.  It's interesting that you note:
                And frankly, it ain't going to happen through this blog, and I find it extremely tedious to hear about how differences of opinion here add up to being told to STFU. We experience this place very differently.
                Indeed it's a vast waste of time for people to pretend to be for "more and better Democrats" if nothing is going to be accomplished.  As for STFU diaries, we can start with this one, by a front-pager no less:

                http://www.dailykos.com/...

                If you hate the "evil corporatist right-centrist oligarchic" Democratic Party so darn much I wonder... why are you here?
                We're here, Denise, because you don't have all the answers.  I discussed the Democratic Party's dilemma in this diary:

                http://www.dailykos.com/...

                Electoral problems are problems in sales ethics.  How do you sell a flawed product?  Do you hide its flaws and hope nobody notices and then tell everyone:

                ?  Or do you tell the voters "yes, the product is flawed, but here's how we can improve it" and accompany that statement with a genuine strategy?

                "Assume man to be man and his relationship to the world to be a human one: then you can exchange love only for love, trust for trust" -- Karl Marx

                by Cassiodorus on Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 05:11:55 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Cass, we're just going to have to (0+ / 0-)

                  agree to disagree.

                  You have not said ONE word about the local issues I bring up, the need to grow progressive policy from the ground up, and what that takes. You go into a local political meeting and start talking about drones and the 2011 national budget and get back to me on how that works.

                  It is incumbent upon progressives to be able to make their policies important to how people live day to day, in their neighborhoods and their lives. It's not the sexy part, not the easy rhetorical battles.

                  Your view is very national, and it is clear to me you have not had much experience working on a local level. Which is exactly where progressives are missing, IMO.

                  And, you won't like this a bit, but I'm sick to puke of the grudges held over whatever Denise said. I have a great deal of respect for Denise, for many reasons, not the least of which is her many contributions to this site, and I've read most of them. Have you? If so, I see no attempt on your part to balance it out.

                  And, I get that ONE of her diaries offended some here.  So what? Can't tell you how many diaries from POVs I don't agree with, have offended me, but imo, we move on. We stop backing up every argument with what Denise said.

                  "A typical vice of American politics is the avoidance of saying anything real on real issues." Theodore Roosevelt.

                  by StellaRay on Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 05:38:45 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

          •  Umm? (4+ / 0-)
            No one here is interested in electing conservative Democrats.
            Um... considering the vitriol that is thrown in the direction of anyone who dares try to drive public discourse to the left even a little bit, let alone anyone who spends any time actually criticizing the Democratic party for its rightward sprint, I find that assertion dubious at best.
      •  Ever hear of the Trojan Horse? (9+ / 0-)

        Giving incumbency and institutional seniority to politicians who basically amount to Republicans is not a winning strategy.  It may feel good in the short term, but before you know it the whole party is standing to the right of Nixon.

        Look at the #2 Democrat in the House of Representatives, Hoyer.  If anything happens to Pelosi, that's the guy whos going to be promoting Democratic policy and values --- from the Right.

        Hillary does not have the benefit of a glib tongue.

        by The Dead Man on Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 07:21:37 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Trust me (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        BMScott

        I wish every state had the voting pattern of Vermont or Rhode Island, but it doesn't.

    •  Actually (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      poco

      Third Way accused Markos of shrinking the big tent. On that point, they are right if you look at the morphing that has occurred here over the past 10 years from "More" to "More and Better".

      KOS: "Mocking partisans focusing on elections? Even less reason to be on Daily Kos."

      by fcvaguy on Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 07:28:01 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Absolutely! (9+ / 0-)

        We've gone from conservative Democrats to conservative Democrats who now feel obliged to pretend that they're liberals.  Perhaps the ones who didn't want to pretend have left?

        "Assume man to be man and his relationship to the world to be a human one: then you can exchange love only for love, trust for trust" -- Karl Marx

        by Cassiodorus on Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 07:32:59 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Actually, my point was the exact opposite (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Sylv, IM

          of what you're saying unless one is so far left they would consider Lamont, Warren, Brown etc, conservative Democrats.

          KOS: "Mocking partisans focusing on elections? Even less reason to be on Daily Kos."

          by fcvaguy on Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 07:41:52 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  What you say is quite unclear. (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            ek hornbeck, poligirl, TheMomCat, triv33

            Markos shrunk the big tent how?  And what does this have to do with "Lamont, Warren, Brown etc,"?

            "Assume man to be man and his relationship to the world to be a human one: then you can exchange love only for love, trust for trust" -- Karl Marx

            by Cassiodorus on Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 07:51:54 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  What fcvaguy is saying is perfectly clear: (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              serendipityisabitch

              changing the goal from More to More and Better shrinks the tent by imposing an additional requirement (‘Better’) and thereby limiting the pool of acceptable candidates.  What’s more, it’s true.  What’s not true – apparently despite the wishes of some here – is the Third Way misprepresentation of the DK tent as a liberal mirror image of the Tea Party.

              •  Because "better" excludes those -- (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                BruceMcF, TheMomCat, triv33

                who want things to be worse.  How could Kos have been so thoughtless?

                "Assume man to be man and his relationship to the world to be a human one: then you can exchange love only for love, trust for trust" -- Karl Marx

                by Cassiodorus on Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 11:37:11 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  Yes, because as demonstrated ... (4+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                TheMomCat, LaEscapee, triv33, Cassiodorus

                ... the "more and better" boils down to just "more", because it only pays lipservice to "better", and indeed relative to the Democratic caucus as a whole, has a distinct lean toward "more and worse".

                Support Lesbian Creative Works with Yuri anime and manga from ALC Publishing

                by BruceMcF on Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 02:14:40 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  This would be more convincing (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Sylv

                  if it were actually true.  You appear to be completely ignoring the effect of 2006 on the overall picture and the fact, pointed out in the diary itself, that endorsements tend to be in competitive Republican-held districts, where a less than ideal Democrat may indeed be a good deal better.  Like it or not, a certain amount of pragmatism is needed if one is to accomplish anything.

                  •  More and better Democrats means ... (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Cassiodorus, triv33

                    ... better among Democrats.

                    "Better any Democrat than any Republican" is "more Democrats, forget whether or not they are better Democrats".

                    To the extent that dkos is effective in its endorsements, it tends to pull the Democratic party toward the corporate center, since strongly economically populist, socially moderate or conservative still lodges you to the left of the position on the scale that dkos disproportionately supports.

                    Support Lesbian Creative Works with Yuri anime and manga from ALC Publishing

                    by BruceMcF on Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 09:04:34 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  It doesn’t affect the Democratic party (0+ / 0-)

                      at all.  It may have that effect on the Democratic representation in Congress, but it has the opposite effect on Congress as a whole.  And as long ‘better’ is understood to impose some minimal requirements even in contests in which pragmatism requires accepting less than we’d like or throwing in the towel, I’ll continue to worry more about Congress as a whole.

                      Whether ‘strongly economically populist, socially moderate or conservative still lodges you to the left of the position on the scale that dkos disproportionately supports’ depends on exactly how that scale is constructed, something that I’ve not investigated.  Since at the emotional level I’m strongly socially liberal and a bit less strongly economically populist than some, my personal scale may work a little differently in any case.

                      •  It undermines Democratic electability ... (0+ / 0-)

                        ... if dkos puts more of its effort into dragging corporate hacks over the line in the general election than into getting exiting candidates to enter into primaries and win them.

                        Support Lesbian Creative Works with Yuri anime and manga from ALC Publishing

                        by BruceMcF on Thu Mar 27, 2014 at 08:32:22 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                    •  It also doesn't mean "more Democrats" either. (2+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      triv33, BruceMcF

                      "More Democrats" would mean a party which actually stood for something -- but Democratic Party doesn't do that and neither Markos nor his paid servants will do that either.  Rather, it is hoped that the Republicans will stand for something, something stupid, which will allow the Democrats to stand for "we're better than the Republicans."

                      "Assume man to be man and his relationship to the world to be a human one: then you can exchange love only for love, trust for trust" -- Karl Marx

                      by Cassiodorus on Thu Mar 27, 2014 at 09:11:40 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Yes, that is the power of the general election ... (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        Cassiodorus

                        ... framing ... chasing after the wins made tougher by not fighting for truly economically populist candidates who could win strongly without nearly the difficulty in generating enthusiasm as the pro-corporate candidates that didn't need a strong netroots platform in the orimaries, because of the insider support.

                        Support Lesbian Creative Works with Yuri anime and manga from ALC Publishing

                        by BruceMcF on Thu Mar 27, 2014 at 02:13:17 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

  •  So dkos is about electing more and worse ... (13+ / 0-)

    ... Democrats? Who knew?

    Support Lesbian Creative Works with Yuri anime and manga from ALC Publishing

    by BruceMcF on Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 07:16:09 AM PDT

  •  Questions, David? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    serendipityisabitch

    Has any candidate ever turned down an endorsement from DKos?

    How about an analysis of Third Way candidates? I would expect that those chalk eaters would lean more than a bit to the right.

    What stronger breast-plate than a heart untainted! Thrice is he arm'd, that hath his quarrel just; And he but naked, though lock'd up in steel, Whose conscience with injustice is corrupted. Henry VI Part II Act 3 Scene 2

    by TerryDarc on Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 07:21:31 AM PDT

  •  sad bid by Republico to gin up 3rd Way relevance (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    The Dead Man, fcvaguy, Sylv, nocynicism
    In a transparent bid for attention, the Third Way-ers willfully misinterpreted Markos to conclude he'd somehow become a liberal tea partier, hell bent on placing purity ahead of victory at all costs, and rooting for moderates to lose. Markos eviscerated this nonsense and, among other things, pointed to all the moderate candidates Daily Kos has supported over the years, like Alaska Sen. Mark Begich and former Virginia Sen. Jim Webb.

    Warning - some snark may be above‽ (-9.50; -7.03)‽ eState4Column5©2013 "I’m not the strapping young Muslim socialist that I used to be" - Barack Obama 04/27/2013 (@eState4Column5).

    by annieli on Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 07:22:43 AM PDT

  •  I think people don't understand that (3+ / 0-)

    Democrats for the most part want to win and try to pick the best candidate that fits the district, if we can get someone more liberal in a district that votes that way we try but we aren't like the Republicans who march to a far-right for everything drumbeat.

  •  Better a -0.2 than a +1...? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    charliehall2

    Or does the Republican side of the scale go to 11?

    ~ Trendar.

  •  Third Way: catastrophically sociopathic n/t (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Choco8

    Change does not roll in on the wheels of inevitability, but comes through continuous struggle. --Martin Luther King Jr.

    by Egalitare on Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 07:51:38 AM PDT

  •  I'd still take Chandler or Herseth-Sandlin (0+ / 0-)

    over the Rethugs who defeated them. :(

  •  You need to reconsider some of this... (2+ / 0-)
    Because those kinds of districts and states tend to be much swingier (if not outright red), the Democrats who win them won't hew to the party line as often as someone sitting in a safely blue seat.
    OK, I live in KY-6, which is currently held by Andy Barr (R). Kentucky has moved STRONGLY Republican in its Congressional delegation; in my lifetime, it has gone from majority Democratic to overwhelmingly Republican (John Yarmuth is the lone Democrat). Our Senators are Mitch McConnell and Rand Paul.

    In recent Presidential elections, Kentucky went for Romney by 20%, McCain by 16%, Bush by 20% and Bush by 15%.

    Imagine my surprise when I read this:

    So it's possible that were we to consider them today, some of the candidates depicted in orange, like ex-Rep. Ben Chandler of Kentucky or ex-Rep. Stephanie Herseth Sandlin of South Dakota, wouldn't be a good fit for Daily Kos.
    I think you need to reconsider that statement. Chandler (the incumbent for KY-6 at the time) lost to Barr in 2012 by 3.7% of the vote; in 2010, he defeated Barr by 0.2%.  Even in a solidly red state like Kentucky, I'd say that those margins are indicative of a "swing district."

    Do you REALLY think a Democrat is going to win in Kentucky without hewing rightward, or that a staunch Democrat/progressive is likely to succeed in rural Kentucky?  Consider that for all of Mitch McConnell's problems and his underwater approval ratings, Alison Lundergan Grimes is still doing no better than neck-and-neck in polling for this year's Senate race.

    The first word in "more and better Democrats" is still "more", yes?

    The word "parent" is supposed to be a VERB, people...

    by wesmorgan1 on Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 08:22:39 AM PDT

  •  Oh... (7+ / 0-)

    I'm not sure this chart shows what you think it does.

  •  Is there (0+ / 0-)

    A pie tent?

    You best believe it does

    by HangsLeft on Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 08:31:10 AM PDT

  •  did Larry Kissell (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    FishOutofWater, Sylv

    make that chart ?
    If so could you show us where ?

    very interesting post !
    Thanks

  •  When you turn your back on electing Democrats (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Sun dog

    by refusing to continue the success of Dean's 50 state strategy you enter an electoral death spiral much like we witnessed prior to the 2006 election.

    It is short-sighted to allow Republicans to win office by refusing to support Democrats that run against them.

    The sites turn away from 'more and better Democrats' to one of only 'better Democrats' is the policy that lead to disastrous election results in 2010.

    Experience teaches us to turn our backs on that strategy and embrace the winning strategy of contesting every state legislative as well as Congressional elections.  Do not give the Rethugs any breathing space.

    It is that simple really.

    "Stay close to the candles....the staircase can be treacherous" (-8.38,-8.51)

    by JNEREBEL on Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 09:22:36 AM PDT

  •  Third Way = false front. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jbsoul

    In case anybody had failed to make that connection....

    "Stealing kids' lunch money makes them strong and independent." -- Rand Ryan-Paul Koch

    by waterstreet2013 on Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 09:29:40 AM PDT

  •  If I understand this correct, you are saying that (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TheMomCat

    DK supported more conserva-Dems than Liberal/Progressive Dems?

    Is that right?  And that's something to be happy about?  

    I'm just checking my understanding of your chart and text....

    "The law is meant to be my servant and not my master, still less my torturer and my murderer." -- James Baldwin. July 11, 1966.

    by YucatanMan on Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 09:59:55 AM PDT

    •  This, from the text (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Sylv
      First and foremost, as we alluded above, Daily Kos almost always endorses challengers, not incumbents, and we typically endorse in competitive, Republican-held seats. Because those kinds of districts and states tend to be much swingier (if not outright red), the Democrats who win them won't hew to the party line as often as someone sitting in a safely blue seat.

      When truth is only a matter of opinion, advantage goes to the liars.

      by Sun dog on Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 10:50:25 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  If I were in the Third Way... (0+ / 0-)

    ...and cared, here's how I would challenge this chart:

    You're not showing any of the candidates who lost. Because our belief is that Progressive is Bad, we will assume that those who lost were to the left of the scale, and of course they lost, because they were too radical. All your more centrist endorsees won, because Third Way. If you were to find a way to score the endorsees who never achieved office, the histogram would tilt sharply to the left. QED. Show your math, because I'm not showing mine.

    Not my words, just a devil's advocate's.

    Use every man after his desert, and who should 'scape whipping?

    by UncleDavid on Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 10:28:22 AM PDT

  •  Suggested correction (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Sylv
    Whereas the center of the full Democratic caucus is somewhere in the middle, Daily Kos' endorsed candidates lean to the right compared to Congress as a whole!
    Should that read "...lean to the right compared to Democrats in Congress as a whole!"?

    We're all pretty strange one way or another; some of us just hide it better. "Normal" is a dryer setting.

    by david78209 on Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 12:21:32 PM PDT

  •  amen! amen! amen! amen! amen!!! david, now (0+ / 0-)

    you've done it - you have turned me into a "religious zealot" with this diary!  

    EdriesShop Is it kind? is it true? is it necessary?

    by edrie on Thu Mar 27, 2014 at 09:54:28 AM PDT

  •  Is this something to be proud of? n/t (0+ / 0-)

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