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Although not a member of RKBA, as someone that own guns I'll respond to Bob Johnson's diary asking the opinion of RKBA on the Bundy ranch standoff.

The Bundy militia folks are conspiracy nuts, and this coalition of white supremacists, cop killer Sovereign Citizens, terrorist wannabes, and generic inbred conspiracy nuts that  believe they are fighting to save 'Murika from the great solar energy conspiracy.  I did  a diary about that.

I also commented that  perhaps this is the Koch brother's Beer Hall Putsch against elected government.  Maybe out of this mess they will find a charismatic nutcase to lead their Brown Shirts.  (I don't think it's wrong to play the Nazi card when the group includes actual violent white supremacists).   Clearly people were hoping for violence like the Nazi's abortive Beer Hall Putsch rebellion against the elected Weimar government.  The Putsch gave the early National Socialists several martyrs and the symbol of the swastika flag stained with their blood (the Blood Flag) to rally their cause. Except in this case they were hoping for a video.

But what about the people? For people familiar with my mental health diaries, this material may be familiar.

The militia types like guns because guns give them an effective way to be obnoxious attention whores.  Being an obnoxious attention whore is important for people who suffer from complete lack of any sense of personal significance significance or achievement.  

Typical of people with no personal sense of self worth is that they must have a circle jerk of friends all telling each other how brave and clever and moral they are.  It's almost inevitable they will try to gang up on others and intimidate them.  If you get nothing else from this diary, just remember that hateful assholes travel in packs because they can't survive without some other hateful asshole telling them how wonderful they are.  Of course, that still leaves the problem of being hateful assholes (and in their hearts they both know it) so they have to unite against a common enemy and declare that they are "better" than the enemy.  This might be a witch hunt, or it could be a long term campaign of sabotage.  Either way, this primitive black and white view of a world without nuance is typical of psychotic tendencies or people that were chronically neglected as children.

These groups have grown a great deal using the internet. Indeed, these fringe groups have probably made better use of the internet than most liberal groups.  But they have always placed an emphasis on covert and long range communication using technologies like short wave radio.  I have discussed the relative failure of online liberal activism from an Adlerian perspective, and why it's so hard to get people  beyond a neurotic pissing contest, and it is a shame to think that white supremacist dimwits would outperform us in certain respects.

This desperate need for mutual admiration is natural, because what can people like this accomplish with their lives?  Clearly, many of them are unemployed or underemployed so that they have time  to trek to Nevada. No doubt many of them are retired or dependent on others.  Disability is probably common. Lack of full time employment is also consistent with their online habits, since people like this are camped out on their computer pretty much around the clock.  

The Bundy militia types bond over a variety of CT.  Check their sites and you'll see much ranting about HAARP and FEMA and chemtrails and UN Agenda 21 and vaccines and Monsanto and raw milk.  Seriously, check out any conspiracy theory and see how long it takes you to find Holocaust deniers that believe the same conspiracy theory.  Nazism in particular is the grand daddy of conspiracy theories, so all CT can be gateways to white supremacy.  Whether or not they "believe" these things is less important than their need to bond with each other through shared make believe, which I discussed in this Eric Hoffer diary.

 

The thing about hateful underachievers is that they demand to be hated by others.  I discussed rage and obsessive hatred in this diary on projection and projective identification as defenses.  By being obnoxious, stupid, and provocative, they demand the hatred from others.  By making others hate them, they can rationalize that it's other people who are resentful and hostile, not them. Accusing other people of thinking bad thoughts is "projection," and manipulating others into playing the role you want is "projective identification."  I have done diaries on both, and how they play into a lifestyle and personality animated by hatred and resentment.

Claiming that they know what others are thinking and punishing them for bad thoughts is symptomatic of a slew of mental illnesses, including sadistic abusive personality types and personality disorders. Some people actually believe these fantasies at the level of clinical paranoia, but most often it will be part of Gish Gallop of accusations as a pretext for violence. In the case of these white supremacists, they "know" people are conspiring against them, so they can justify a philosophy of "get them before they get us."

Since projection attempts to create an enemy with very similar emotions and beliefs, they are trying to create opponents that resemble themselves.  It's a cliche, but people really do have the greatest hatred for people with similar personalities. That's why when two people are locked in bitter hatred, bystanders are likely to think "Hey you two, get a room!"  

Because people like this are generally not hitting on all cylinders, they are going to depend on organizations and groups for a sense of purpose.  Not that they will accomplish much as a group either - usually they will try to latch onto an established  group, a political party, or web site and disrupt and sabotage until everyone else just gives up in disgust.

Where they do organize, it is to pick their battles with people who don't really have a dog in the fight. And that's one of the main points of conspiracy theories - it's inevitable that we end up at Glenn Beck's chalkboard claiming Obama is directly related to Saul Alinsky (who died in 1972).  Their enemies are imaginary and the people sabotaging their lives are themselves, so they have to keep expanding the net of guilt-by-association until they can find someone to blame and hate. Ideally, that person will be accessible enough that they can be baited into hating them back and closing the circle.   In terms of political effectiveness, it adds up to whole bunch of nothing, another spiral of pointless ineffectiveness.

Where does this go next?  I wish I knew, but we'll just have to see where we are at this time next year....

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Comment Preferences

  •  Weren't the Brown Shirts Moussolini-fascists, as (0+ / 0-)

    opposed to Nazi-fascists?

    Righteousness is a wide path. Self-righteousness is a bullhorn and a blindfold.

    by Murphoney on Sat Apr 19, 2014 at 04:17:52 PM PDT

  •  also not rkba,just a hunter who locks up his guns (11+ / 0-)

    and i thought you wrote a decent response. do others here really think that gun owners silence on this equals approval? they need to get real.

    i find it it disturbing that the government is always ready to shoot tear gas canisters and rubber bullets at Left Wing Protestors but backs down from confronting assholes like this bundy guy.

    sooner or later Uncle Sam will have to deal with the likes of them, and the sooner the better in my opinion.

    The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts. -Bertrand Russell

    by elkhunter on Sat Apr 19, 2014 at 06:28:51 PM PDT

  •  One major difference between this diary and (7+ / 0-)

    the other one?

    This one doesn't have a whole slew of righteous left-wing liberals pouring hatred and ridicule on all gun owners. I wonder why?

    (Yeah, I'm being a tad over the top; but that other diary was just unbelievable in the sheer volume of vitriol aimed at anyone crazy/stupid/egotistical and/or insecure enough to own a gun.)

    •  Links? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      i saw an old tree today
      righteous left-wing liberals pouring hatred and ridicule on all gun owners... vitriol aimed at anyone [...] enough to own a gun.
      I don't see those comments. Links?

      As a gun-owner myself, I wouldn't dream of pretending to speak for a group whose founder and leading voice calls for the legal public carry of machine-guns, without any special registration, licensing or certification. It baffles me.

      Bob Johnson asks:

      Where is RKBA on the Bundy ranch yahoos? What have we heard from our local RKBA "liberals" about these embarrassingly ignorant morons?
      bernardpliers writes:
      Although not a member of RKBA, as someone that own guns I'll respond to Bob Johnson's diary asking the opinion of RKBA...
      Hrm, kinda lost me there, right in that first sentence.
  •  I like the sixth paragraph (6+ / 0-)

    But I won't say who I would apply it to...:)

  •  Bumped, Particularly This: (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bernardpliers, DavidMS, ER Doc
    The militia types like guns because guns give them an effective way to be obnoxious attention whores.  Being an obnoxious attention whore is important for people who suffer from complete lack of any sense of personal significance or achievement.
    Exactly. there's a distinct difference between gun owners, hunters, collectors and the Bundy doofuses who wave guns around as the answer to everything and point them at government agents, if they think it necessary.

    Their sense of self esteem; their balls are connected to their guns. maybe that's why these sad sacks are such rabid second amendment supporters; the (false) belief "the government is going to take away their guns' n' ammo" means they would lose their balls.

    "We are beyond law, which is not unusual for an empire; unfortunately, we are also beyond common sense." Gore Vidal

    by Superpole on Sun Apr 20, 2014 at 05:59:36 AM PDT

    •  Washington Post Article About Veterans (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Superpole, DavidMS, ER Doc
      The Army provided his income, sense of purpose, self-esteem and 15 of his closest friends. Now, Derric Winters is transitioning from military to civilian life, from camaraderie to isolation.
      You can really see how vulnerable someone can be to exploitation by these groups.

      Men are so necessarily mad, that not to be mad would amount to another form of madness. -Pascal

      by bernardpliers on Sun Apr 20, 2014 at 09:04:08 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Gun Confiscation (0+ / 0-)

      IS the agenda of the more extreme lefty anti-gun ideologues.  Mind you, I understand it is unlikely, but that is what they advocate.  A mahor reason it is so difficult to have a rational discussion about them within Democratic policy circles.

      Insight: They are seeking a "Technical" solution (Take away their guns!) to Social Problems, mostly inner city.

      Meanwhile, we have these armed right wing nutcases, and a deteriorating social environment.  And otherwise rational people are drawn into their web of conspiracy theories by the Faux news complex, just like the lefties really believe that gun control will "Make Children Safer"

      Whenever you hear that, suggest FIRST filling in every back yard swimming pool, and Graduated Driving License protocols.  I would like to raise the driving license age to eighteen, but that is a non-starter in the suburbs.  I will agree to an ANNUAL road test for anyone over 65 (I'm 59, so I worry about that).  I would like to make it felony child abuse to let your children ride around on ATV's.  Around here, I routinely see them on the public rural roads, but again, a non-starter.

      Yes, there are tragic deaths of small children.   In the Mortality and Morbidity Statistics, they are STATISTICAL OUTLIERS.  Small Children Drown in backyard swimming pools, are left in cars to cook, and killed in ATV accidents in at  LEAST equal, probably greater numbers, but no one is publishing a weekly diary of those.

      Suburban Teenagers continue to kill themselves in Automobile Wrecks in FAR greater numbers;  Last week there was at least one nineteen year old killed in a single vehicle wreck here in Arkansas, one of those local stories that gets two column inches in the local paper.  Ejected from the vehicle (along with two others, currently hospitalized, i.e., no seat belts).  But there is no "Automobile Control Inc." toting up and publicizing the tragedy of those dead "Children".

      Maybe I will copy this out as my first Diary.

      And WHAT is RKBA?

      In the dark shadow of the Great Satan of Retail

      by OzarkOrc on Wed Apr 23, 2014 at 10:44:06 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Both Sides Of The Issue Have Attention Whores (0+ / 0-)

        .....and I think there is a lot of fund raising based on using the other teams stupidity to raise money.  It's a win-win of derpy mutual back scratching.

        Men are so necessarily mad, that not to be mad would amount to another form of madness. -Pascal

        by bernardpliers on Fri Apr 25, 2014 at 06:45:52 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  As soneone that was called out specificaly (6+ / 0-)

    in that diary-- not sure why though.. I fully approve and appreciate this posting. Thank you very much.

    •  Bob's Diaries Cure Me Of The Urge To Help People (4+ / 0-)

      If I ever feel sad about global warming or some other thing, all I need to do is read one of Bob's diaries to realize humanity is merely one more evolutionary dead end.  Then I can go about my day with a clear conscious.

      Men are so necessarily mad, that not to be mad would amount to another form of madness. -Pascal

      by bernardpliers on Sun Apr 20, 2014 at 10:04:45 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  The funny bit was Bob Johnson's use of (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        FrankRose, oldpunk, Kasoru

        scare quotes: he describes RKBA "liberals".

        I remember Bob from the Obama wars. Bob was consistently one of the most accommodationist, "centrist", establishment Dems in those fights. He had no use whatsoever for the liberal wing of the party, and consistently described them with sneering contempt. What really got his goat is that they had the temerity to believe in something.

        Many of the RKBA have been among the most liberal members of this site.

        Bob hates gun owners for the same reason Mayor Stop-and-Frisk does. He hates the little people, and really doesn't want them empowered.

        Non enim propter gloriam, diuicias aut honores pugnamus set propter libertatem solummodo quam Nemo bonus nisi simul cum vita amittit. -Declaration of Arbroath; μολὼν λαβέ - att. Leonidas I

        by Robobagpiper on Mon Apr 21, 2014 at 06:50:01 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  You were called out because you alluded to (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      FrankRose, Kasoru

      brooklynbadboy's death squad fantasy, for which he has still been uncensured.

      Non enim propter gloriam, diuicias aut honores pugnamus set propter libertatem solummodo quam Nemo bonus nisi simul cum vita amittit. -Declaration of Arbroath; μολὼν λαβέ - att. Leonidas I

      by Robobagpiper on Mon Apr 21, 2014 at 06:28:37 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Very interesting post (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bernardpliers, DavidMS, ER Doc

    Took me a while to be able to respond, because there wasn't a lot of detailed backup in the post.  So, I wanted to read more of the previous posts referenced here.  Found them also very interesting and more complete with backup reference.

    The explanation of what's behind the Bundy militia response and the other craziness unearthed when I looked at their leaders and theories really helps.  When I first saw these guys and what they had on the web, they really scared me.

    It is nice to at least have some idea what's behind their craziness.

    Thank you Bernard for this post and for the previous posts linked to this one.

    Understanding is limited by perspective. Perspective is limited by experience. America is a great place to live but it limits our ability to understand.

    by CindyV on Sun Apr 20, 2014 at 10:12:50 AM PDT

  •  Thank you! (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bernardpliers, ER Doc, FrankRose

    I always knew that the right was driven by internal psychological factors.  I had no idea it was that bad.  

    I'm a 4 Freedoms Democrat.

    by DavidMS on Sun Apr 20, 2014 at 02:03:31 PM PDT

  •  You know what? I got to reading, and just kind of (6+ / 0-)

    read along, going with the flow of the words and what not, and you do write well, and I forgot just what in the heck the diary was all about when I came to this part.

    Typical of people with no personal sense of self worth is that they must have a circle jerk of friends all telling each other how brave and clever and moral they are.  It's almost inevitable they will try to gang up on others and intimidate them.  If you get nothing else from this diary, just remember that hateful assholes travel in packs because they can't survive without some other hateful asshole telling them how wonderful they are.
    For a sec I got all confused about just who in the heck is who.

    “Conservation… is a positive exercise of skill and insight, not merely a negative exercise of abstinence and caution…” Aldo Leopold

    by ban nock on Sun Apr 20, 2014 at 02:11:22 PM PDT

  •  Harry Reid (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bernardpliers, coquiero

    I feel so good about Sen. Harry Reid.  He shows courage that is so needed and rare in politicians.  He not only called out the Bundy Militia as the terrorists they are but he has brought up suicide in calling for action to stop gun violence.  

    Mandatory Gun Insurance would provide for victims, encourage safety and not be an excessive burden on gun owners. How to do it at Gun Insurance Blog. I also make posts at Huffington as Tom Harvey.

    by guninsuranceblog on Sun Apr 20, 2014 at 05:44:20 PM PDT

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