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an AutoDesk 360 Dashboard

As I understand it this is interactive, you can invite people to join it, or create your own

My thing as an architect is how to deal with losing the East and Gulf Coasts to sea level rise. Can we Relocate or salvage anything with a 100 year plan. Your input is appreciated.

Poll

Can we save the East and Gulf coast

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| 53 votes | Vote | Results

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Comment Preferences

  •  Tip Jar (7+ / 0-)

    "la vida no vale nada un lugar solita" "The Limits of Control Jim Jarmusch

    by rktect on Thu May 08, 2014 at 06:02:06 AM PDT

  •  The East Coast is not worth saving (0+ / 0-)

    Let it go.

    And move to Kansas.

    And then, join a school board and help make a positive difference!!

    •  I hope this is snark... (0+ / 0-)

      Ted Cruz president? Pardon my Vietnamese, but Ngo Pho King Way.

      by ZedMont on Thu May 08, 2014 at 06:20:04 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Of course it's snark. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ZedMont

        There is simply no reasoning with Creationists.

        However, if they could simply be overwhelmed numerically, there still might be hope . .. .

        •  But I want beachfront! (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          ZedMont

          Should I look here in Dallas (elev. 430'), closer to central Texas, or north of the Red River?  Either way, folks in Kansas will be closer to the beach.

          I'm part of the "bedwetting bunch of website Democrat base people (DKos)." - Rush Limbaugh, 10/16/2012 Torture is Wrong! We live near W so you don't have to. Send love.

          by tom 47 on Thu May 08, 2014 at 07:53:06 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Get yourself one of those (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            ZedMont

            USGS contour maps of your area.  It's easy to figure out where the beaches (or at least the waterfront) will be.  The only "problem" is figuring out how high and when.  I wouldn't suggest a "buy and hold" strategy in Galveston, though . . .

            Fake Left, Drive Right . . . not my idea of a Democrat . . .

            by Deward Hastings on Thu May 08, 2014 at 08:10:30 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  You probably should plan on an island... (0+ / 0-)

            Ted Cruz president? Pardon my Vietnamese, but Ngo Pho King Way.

            by ZedMont on Thu May 08, 2014 at 08:26:02 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Several states will have New Islands (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              ZedMont

              The Eastern half of Massachusetts and Connecticut less the Cape and about half of Rhode Island will be a New Island.

              Coastal flooding will take all of Delaware and about half of New Jersey and Virginia. The Carolinas and Georgia likewise and Florida and Louisiana plus the lower half of Mississippi, Arkansas and Alabama are going away.

              Lots of people in the south will have beaches closer to home unless the earthquakes cause by fracking destroy them first.

              "la vida no vale nada un lugar solita" "The Limits of Control Jim Jarmusch

              by rktect on Thu May 08, 2014 at 09:06:30 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  Try the tool provided to see where new coasts (0+ / 0-)

            will be in your area. As I recall the Gulf expands up about as far as Oklahoma so Kansas will be closer to the beach.

            "la vida no vale nada un lugar solita" "The Limits of Control Jim Jarmusch

            by rktect on Thu May 08, 2014 at 09:02:59 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  The idea of using the AutoDesk Dashboard tool (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Bob Love

          is that instead of just posting a snarky comment and moving on, people can invite others, form focus groups, not necessarily just architects and urban planners, identify threatened infrastructure and plan for its relocation.

          Some of the people who see your comments will be people trying to assess the problem and find a solution.

          In relocation zones no new building or remodeling would be allowed. As I pointed out the coastal flood plain insurance rates are too high $2.10 per $100 of value to allow either public or private insurance and rebuilding so already all the coastal infrastructure for 36,000 square miles of the East and Gulf coasts has been written off.

          When its destroyed it can't be rebuilt.

          Now if prior to that time an owner chooses to salvage his property, buy a new lot hire a moving truck to move the building that would be allowed. Expensive but not as expensive as just watching it sink beneath the waves.

          Cities and towns could do that with public buildings, water and sewage treatment, power plants, etc;

          Large hospitals already rebuild themselves about every three years to stay current with technology.

          Boston's big dig didn't really plan for this but has been pointed out innumerable times all our infrastructure built over the last two centuries is crumbling and needs to be replaced anyway.

          State and Federal authorities could do it with tunnels and bridges, railroads, seaports, airports, LPGN storage facilities, and various power and communications facilities.

          Large corporations with high rises building would be fucked, but they could perhaps pour concrete seawalls around and through the first sixty meters and then roads and infra structure could be replaced on top of that.

          I have no clue what to do with nuke plants other than decommission them and cover them with concrete
          It takes about 25

          "la vida no vale nada un lugar solita" "The Limits of Control Jim Jarmusch

          by rktect on Thu May 08, 2014 at 08:35:07 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  If nothing new is built in the projected (0+ / 0-)

            flood zones from this day forward, there shouldn't be that much of a problem in making the transition.

            Of course, that's not the case at all - there is new construction all the time, deliberately so.

            •  More snark? (0+ / 0-)

              Imagine life with none of the things provided by cities; no transportation, communications, healthcare, airports, seaports, power plants, TV stations, manufacturing, commerce, distribution nets for stuff you buy in stores, warehouses, markets, stores themselves...

              Look at the changes in the new flood plain map for downtown Boston and ask yourself what kind of a world would it be without the pastries from Hanover Street in the North End.

              "la vida no vale nada un lugar solita" "The Limits of Control Jim Jarmusch

              by rktect on Thu May 08, 2014 at 09:20:08 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

  •  Triage will be needed. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ZedMont, rktect

    Alan Giana's short story "Slow Drowning" in the July-August 1998 issue of Analog is a reasonable imagining.

    Bonus: in the story, he predicted flash mobs.

    I live under the bridge to the 21st Century.

    by Crashing Vor on Thu May 08, 2014 at 06:20:15 AM PDT

    •  We already need to replace infrastructure (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Crashing Vor

      that we have let deteriorate for seventy five years under Republican and Clintonian political austerity.

      We need to build some very large new cities complete with airports, seaports, tunnels, bridges, and all the infrastructure that we had before only upgraded to what other nations are currently using.

      In 1993 I was involved in designing and building Hawtah Saudi Arabia for ARAMCO. I lived on site for a year to do it.

      The first thing we put in was a repeater station, even before the roads were laid out or the site surveyed. We did this while the mosque was still under construction. Then came worker housing, water and sewer plants, a comm building; utilities like fiber optic cable.

      Today its large enough to service the southern oil and gas fields in the Rub al Khali. Similar projects were built on Alaskas North Slope and like Abu Dhabi and Dubi will soon have to be abandoned.

      "la vida no vale nada un lugar solita" "The Limits of Control Jim Jarmusch

      by rktect on Thu May 08, 2014 at 08:48:15 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Freudian slip: (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    rktect

    Next to last choice should be "more," but "morte" is perhaps fitting.

    Ted Cruz president? Pardon my Vietnamese, but Ngo Pho King Way.

    by ZedMont on Thu May 08, 2014 at 06:23:48 AM PDT

  •  imo (3+ / 0-)

    there should and eventually will be a market in infrastructure changes in response to sea level rise.

    That market would have taken off by now, given a rational public discussion about climate change.

    I consider myself to be a pragmatic environmentalist. I believe that people will not forgo travel or other amenities of modern life to reduce their personal carbon footprints until hydrocarbon energy becomes too expensive for, say, the upper 15% to afford.  Gameplan of the oilcorps has been to keep the discussion open while running out the oil supplies, to maximize profits and their personal wealth before they are forced to stop business as usual.

    For these reasons, I think that alternative energy development is by far the best solution. But alternative energy and related infrastructure is expensive.

    An energy-expensive world will magnify the impacts of income inequality. In that world, misery will abound and the social problems and related injustices will become muddled together and increasingly difficult to resolve.

    Solar energy looks viable, but needs too much water. imo  research is needed to develop water-minimized solar energy technology.  But ... Solyndrhazi!!!

    •  Yeah, more research. (0+ / 0-)

      Look, there's no time. We don't have decades anymore.

      Moderation in most things.

      by billmosby on Thu May 08, 2014 at 07:13:08 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  We have about two decades until 2035 (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        billmosby

        to complete the planning and design, work out the details for the hundred year plan and begin work. That normally takes twenty five years, but if you want to look at new cities take Dubai which is in the process of covering the entire coast of a somewhat smaller country and for the most part disregarding sea level rise. Maybe they will have to dam off the straits of Hormuz to save themselves with all that implies for oil shipments.

        The expense for this project will be prohibitive so we are just going to have to suck that up like everything else for which the expense is prohibitive, wars, epidemics, natural disasters.

        My focus is on how to share ideas and I like this dashboard tool as a means of doing that. Note that its interactive so people can add their own invite lists, put up their own graphics and notes on my interactive page.

        Then they can create their own page and if they wish link back to mine.

        "la vida no vale nada un lugar solita" "The Limits of Control Jim Jarmusch

        by rktect on Thu May 08, 2014 at 08:56:09 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Where would you put new cities? (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          rktect

          On arable land? Expectations are that crop yields will suffer and the area of arable land will be reduced.

          Unfortunately, starvation may come first and obviate the need for new cities.

          •  Excellent comment (0+ / 0-)

            I encourage you to add it to the desktop article, add your own graphics, invite friends, all of that.

            In a very short time we will lose the tropics to rising temperatures making life impossible. Climate change will be different everywhere but for areas like the west coast where drought is a way of life interspersed with mudslides, drought and water shortages will get worse. Most of the great plains will suffer another dust bowl, temperatures in Oklahoma and Kansas will be hotter than what Arizona, Nevada, New Mexico, Texas are used to now.

            For New England and parts of the Middle Atlantic States things get warmer and wetter by a factor of close to 100%

            The climate change to habitats will affect seasonal reproduction, pollinators, organisms that make oxygen, pestilence, opportunistic diseases.

            Growing crops won't be we easy we need to preserve as much agricultural land as possible. I think the East Coast could successfully move back to the Appalachians, but we will lose most of the fisheries as the oceans die and the stands of timber as their climate moves out of their optimum habitat.

            "la vida no vale nada un lugar solita" "The Limits of Control Jim Jarmusch

            by rktect on Thu May 08, 2014 at 09:41:41 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  So many things could be done and yet it (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    tikkun, marina, rktect, wayoutinthestix

    seems nothing is done.

    1. I would identify extreme highrisk repetitive flood lowlying development that probably shouldn't have been built in the first place and try to initiate some kind of government buy out program. Get a reasonable fair market value and offer the buyout. Do this in tandem with making flood insurance in these locations unavailable so that the owners have 2 choices:
            1. Sell and leave
            2.Stay and take your chances without flood insurance.

    This maintains choice, although one choice is clearly preferable. I think that the majority of owners will realize that their properties will be virtually unsellable without available flood insurance and they will take the buyout. ( In real life these properties are already becoming unsalable because there is so much concern about rising flood insurance costs even though the reform law has been delayed in its implementation.)

    Condemn and remove the properties that are bought out. Allow natural vegetation and marshlands and water intrusion to take over. These reclaimed marshes and swamplands will be a buffer for flooding outside the zone.

    I don't see why this couldn't be done starting almost immediately. We have to start somewhere. The towns will lose some property taxes, but that's inevitable because at some point this property will be swamped anyway.

    I think this is a fair and reasonable first step, and like I said, no one will be forced from their homes although they will see the area dehabitate around them.

    2. Why not immediately begin local White Roof Reward programs? Encourage residents in hot climates with high air-conditioning use to paint their roofs white and offer some kind of incentive - a lower kilowatt per hour rate, a property tax rebate, something, anything, just so we can get this very simple cheap program going. A ecologically conscious HOA could start encouraging a program like this- Sleepy Acres, a White Roof Community.

    Thise are just 2 ideas off hand.

    I also continue to wonder why our residential building remains so conventional given increased storm, hurricane and tornado risks. I think we should have more concrete structures or something similar. Maybe more of a rounded shape and with nothing to blow off or away. Let's get some trial advanced architectural villages going! If communities are building storm shelters, why aren't they trying something more innovative? Let's get some different models going for schools for climate safety.

    “Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough.” FDR

    by Phoebe Loosinhouse on Thu May 08, 2014 at 06:35:32 AM PDT

    •  I would add the caveat that structures built (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      rktect

      after the threat of catastrophic climate change became common knowledge should not be eligible for any sort of publicly funded payout our buyout. Why should I be responsible for the idiotic decisions of others, made in the full knowledge that disaster was the likely outcome?

      Even today construction continues on the oceanfront and on flood plains near me. Do you really expect me to pay for this stupidity, after paying a premium for the highest house in the town?

      •  There won't be any public or private reimbursement (0+ / 0-)

        no insurance available that's even close to affordable.
        People who don't want to be responsible for what others have built and enjoyed won't have to be.

        You may miss some of the things provided by cities after they are gone. Communications and transportation for example, or even some of the places where government does its thing.

        You may be among those who like working for a living and having a nearby source of jobs, or you may like a place where you can go to shop, meet friends for lunch, enjoy sports or the arts.

        You might even find cities are good places to go to school, be admitted to a hospital, or gather together with lots of other people while we continue to have lots of other people we feel comfortable gathering with.

        You might even want to help build new ones.

        "la vida no vale nada un lugar solita" "The Limits of Control Jim Jarmusch

        by rktect on Thu May 08, 2014 at 09:28:30 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  We country folk love cities. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          rktect

          We wish more people would live in them. We'll send you food...

          •  My kids live in cities (0+ / 0-)

            Its a seven hour drive, a bit less if they fly so I don't see them much except I get to Skype with my grandson on occasion.

            They love cities, don't want to live on a farm down east.

            I'm a gonna have to wait till their cities drown to convince them otherwise.

            My wife and I think of it as a beautiful place, snow, mud, March, Blackflies, and trying to find a twenty dollar bill in February having not as yet broken our spirit.

            If you consider yourself country folk, farm and grow food, what's your take on Farmland trusts and forever farms?

            "la vida no vale nada un lugar solita" "The Limits of Control Jim Jarmusch

            by rktect on Thu May 08, 2014 at 12:58:14 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Frankly it depends on the particular parcel (0+ / 0-)

              of land. Prime farmland should - some would say must - be preserved to produce food for hypothetical future generations. But prime farmland today may not be prime tomorrow, due to soil depletion, erosion, toxic wastes, climate disruption, depleted aquifers, and any number of other factors. So saying "this land must remain a farm forever" must be accompanied by an awareness of what makes that land such good farmland in the first place, and practices that protect those qualities.

              There is also the economic factor - should owners of prime farmland be forced to endure eternal poverty, unable to develop their land to a "higher" (more lucrative) use simply because they have been good stewards of that land and protected its fertility? (Owners of conservation lands in general face this issue, their lands slated for conservation and made economically worthless because they "failed" to exploit it.)

              My farm has been in aquaculture production for perhaps a thousand years, the soil improving with every silty high water episode. In this case I would say yes, the land should be kept in aquaculture for perpetuity and the water resources protected to facilitate that. But in most cases I believe it should be up to the owner what is done with the land. If the general public wants farmland to be protected, the fairest route is to pay enough for the food that farming becomes the "highest" use for the best land.

              •  My orchards are old and so am I (0+ / 0-)

                Some trees are a couple of centuries old. They grow wide, die, fall over and new trees grow from them.

                People used to be able to work a small farm like mine, tend its animals, plow its fields plant a crop, tend its orchards, forage its woods, pick its berries.

                Ideally as the farm develops you also raise a crop of kids to do the work. My kids live in the city and as I get older I'm unable to keep up with it. I have lots of excuses .

                To properly prune and protect them from Apple scab requires fungicides which I'm uncomfortable using as a spray.

                To protect from fire blight requires winter pruning. That's something I do lazily and the branches are now too high and need to just be cut low ruthlessly. With the pruning should go grafting for optimum production.

                To protect from powdery mildew requires pruning to increase air and light, which basically means keeping at it. I'd rather sit in their shade and loaf.

                I only have one tree susceptible to cedar apple rust and I can protect it by covering the cedar galls,

                Black rot is controlled by removing cankers, dead bark and limbs,picking up prunings and apple drop and filling cracks,

                Sooty blotch requires fungacides,

                Flyspec is controlled by pruning and thinning apple clusters.

                Crown rot, collar rot, and root rot,are controlled by proper watering and drainage, and molds, blights, and pests by just keeping an eye on whats happening to the trees.

                If I did all that I could pick and sell my apples instead of giving them to the equine rescue or food banks. Maybe a young farmer could, maybe another orchard could.

                "la vida no vale nada un lugar solita" "The Limits of Control Jim Jarmusch

                by rktect on Thu May 08, 2014 at 06:50:53 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  I met an old cherry farmer (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  rktect

                  who found that simply offering you-pick cherries for pennies a pound with a sign on the road in front of his orchard actually brought in more money than contracting with the cannery. He seemed to enjoy meeting people like me that came to pick the cherries, too. Even let us camp in the orchard so we could pick a second day and top off the van.

                  You might find that such an approach could pay someone to do the pruning and what not, and people picking their own are willing to accept imperfect apples that would never be chosen in the supermarket.

                  My son, too, never had any interest in farming, although he lives on the land. My daughter has started opening up some fields again, but now realizes how much more work it is to start again from scratch rather than just maintaining and harvesting as she did when she was younger. Plus being a weekend farmer presents its own difficulties. My grandson is my best hope, as he is the primary impetus behind my daughter taking up farming again. Myself, I left some years ago following a new wife to a new life in suburbia. I can't say I've never regretted that choice, but if I went back I suspect I would choose an even older lifestyle, living off the land in the jungle as I did when I was young and free.

    •  This is a productive comment (0+ / 0-)

      I encourage you to add it to the page I started, invite friends, develop your ideas with others.

      "la vida no vale nada un lugar solita" "The Limits of Control Jim Jarmusch

      by rktect on Thu May 08, 2014 at 08:57:30 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  The solution to the problem lies (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Deward Hastings, rktect

    in the 1970s. What we will do from now until the problem is evident to enough "voters" to change things is exemplified by the Bill Nye/Random Denier "debate" on Fox, er I mean, CNN yesterday. And when voters wake up it will be because they are in their attics waiting for somebody to saw through their roofs and rescue them from the risen seas.

    The solution I am talking about can't be mentioned now. But it would have had the added benefit of saving a couple of million lives from fossil fuel pollution-related deaths per year from then to now.

    Moderation in most things.

    by billmosby on Thu May 08, 2014 at 07:11:15 AM PDT

    •  Too late now . . . (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      billmosby, rktect

      and most people, even here, still don't "get it".

      There seems to be a general misunderstanding that there is some immediate linear relationship between CO2 concentration and temperature.  While true in the long run (perhaps) it's not true in the short (decades or even centuries), where current (and future) CO2 concentration determines slope of the temperature increase curve, not the endpoint.  The present CO2 level guarantees temperature will rise at least until the end of the Century, and of course that level will itself continue to increase for decades in the absolute best case.  And then, of course, there is the almost inevitable positive feedback from rising Methane . . .

      Fake Left, Drive Right . . . not my idea of a Democrat . . .

      by Deward Hastings on Thu May 08, 2014 at 08:32:56 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I agree its too late now (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        billmosby

        That means this project needs to be fast tracked and that is why I like the AutoDesk Dashboard as a tool for doing that. I invite your to go to the page and explore its options invite some friends, try it out.

        "la vida no vale nada un lugar solita" "The Limits of Control Jim Jarmusch

        by rktect on Thu May 08, 2014 at 08:59:27 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Are we talking nukes, or are we talking (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      billmosby

      population control?

      'Cuz those are the only unmentionables I can think of.

      •  This is a new tool (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        billmosby

        You can talk about what you like, invite friends, senators, congress critters what have you. You can add your own graphics, or start your own page and if you like link to the one I started.

        Look for the link at the start of the diary.

        "la vida no vale nada un lugar solita" "The Limits of Control Jim Jarmusch

        by rktect on Thu May 08, 2014 at 09:45:24 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Yes to both. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Remembering Jello, rktect

        Although I was talking about nukes. I used to work where the IFR was developed, it would have made a great second act after the ones built up to about 1995. Here's a link to the best documentation of that program (fairly large PDF), written by the two main managers of the program.  

        Moderation in most things.

        by billmosby on Thu May 08, 2014 at 10:14:03 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Requires sign-in with Auto-Desk, and (0+ / 0-)

    you've given us very little to go on.

    What is Auto-Desk, and what does this give us access to?

    Dick Cheney 2/14/10: "I was a big supporter of waterboarding"

    by Bob Love on Thu May 08, 2014 at 10:30:16 AM PDT

    •  I have been using Autocad since 1983 (0+ / 0-)

      It has cost me a few thousand dollars each time I renewed my license and upgraded my software. here I'm engaged in a tech preview which I received today.

      I haven't done much with it yet, just put some graphics in a page to illustrate an idea and emailed it to some people, and blogged it, shared it on FB. I'm counting on other people to be interested.

      If Auto Desk wants you to sign in you can take my word for it you are going to like what happens next.

      You're in!

      We are excited to welcome you to join the Autodesk 360 Tech Preview, our new project-centric collaboration product. We are looking forward to your participation and feedback.

      To access your Autodesk 360 Tech Preview account, click the link below:

      Take me to Autodesk 360 Tech Preview  

      To help you get started, watch this short video.

      You and your team are one of the first to be invited to leverage the power of the new Autodesk 360. If you have any questions, we'd love to hear from you. Please submit your questions to the Autodesk 360 Tech Preview Forum or follow us on Twitter @autodesk360.

      Thanks,
      The Autodesk 360 Team

      I like the idea of meetups, of collaboration, of CAD, and of sharing the interdisciplinary ability to work on a plan.

      Now you may know nothing about designing in 4D, animating models, BIM, that could all be Greek to you, but I can remember talking to Steve Andrews about beamed solar and his wanting a better animation. If you are reading this Darkside this bud's for you.

      This is a project page

      "la vida no vale nada un lugar solita" "The Limits of Control Jim Jarmusch

      by rktect on Thu May 08, 2014 at 12:34:39 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •   live bookmarks (0+ / 0-)

      "la vida no vale nada un lugar solita" "The Limits of Control Jim Jarmusch

      by rktect on Thu May 08, 2014 at 01:03:47 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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