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Karl Rove on ABC's This Week With George Stephanopoulos
This is how it works. First Karl Rove bleats something about how Hillary Clinton was wearing sunglasses that only people with "traumatic brain injury" wear, and says she was in the hospital for a month when she most provably was not, and this is all such obvious bullshit that only a moron could possibly take it seriously, and then people like Rich Lowry, a man who decided Sarah Palin was vice-presidential material because She Winked At Me, write approving essays in the opinion pages called things like "Rove Is Right".
If we take Rove’s interview on Fox News the day after the Page Six item as the best explanation of his view, his basic points are unassailable — the state of Clinton’s health will play into her decision whether or not to run, she will have to be completely open about the 2012 episode and all of this will be filtered through the fact that she will be 69 if elected and 77 if she serves two terms.
So if we completely ignore the part where everything Karl Rove said was an outright lie—she was not in the hospital "30 days," she was not wearing sunglasses meant for "people who have traumatic brain injury" and prominent liar-for-cash Karl Rove either had to know both of those things himself or gets his news primarily from the voices in his own head—then Karl Rove's intended point is "unassailable" because Hillary Clinton is old. And it is the job of the professional damager of American discourse to studiously ignore the part where everything Karl Rove or some other titanic hack said was an outright lie, because that is how these things work. Let's ignore the part where he was promoting an outright lie; it feels like something that could be true, and so fellow professional liar Rich Lowry kicks the conspiracy can forward, just a little bit, in the supposedly serious pages of Politico.

Much more, but below the fold...

Even if you take at face value everything we’ve heard about Clinton’s condition in December 2012, it was frighteningly serious. The clot, according to The Washington Post, “can cause permanent brain damage, coma or death if not detected and treated in time.”

News accounts say it was caught early, and Clinton is performing as ably as ever. But politicians have a long history of lying through their teeth about their health [...]

Two possibilities, then: All of the facts as we know them are right and Karl Rove has no leg to stand on in his visions of 30-day hospital stays and brain-injury sunglasses, or there is a secret conspiracy, craftily aided by Hillary Clinton in her own perfectly lucid and agile public appearances, and demonstrable liar Karl Rove might be right secretly. Rich Lowry just wants to know. Can Hillary Clinton find her brain's birth certificate? Is it, you know, in the proper font?

What follows is several paragraphs pointing out that politicians are often attacked for being too old, followed by the final ascent to the top of Bullshit Mountain for the ceremonial planting of the flag:

Hillary can potentially trump all this with openness about her medical records, and with an energetic and future-oriented campaign, should she run. [...]

But Rove is right: Hillary will have to deal with these questions.

And this is how it works, chapter and verse. The professional liar pipes up with a bald-faced lie. Though it is quickly and easily disproven, other professional liars pipe up to say that if we ignore the fact that the liar is lying, the liar raises a good point. The liars take to the op-ed pages to note that the liar is just asking the question, and now the question is out there. And they will make damn sure the question is out there for as long as it takes to get a flock of morons and dunderheads to believe that there is a conspiracy to not answer the question, even though "the question" was a lie to begin with and no less a lie through each of the various iterations meant to sanitize it enough for the public to forget that the whole thing was a fiction from the start.

This is how Whitewater worked. This is how cattle futures worked. This is how the worst human shitstains in America turned "Vince Foster" into a talking point. This is how stupid people came to believe that Barack Obama was secretly a Muslim. This is why the first non-white president had to publicly release his birth certificate, and why there is no "birth certificate" that will ever be considered, by a certain crowd that includes actual American congressional representatives, authentic enough to put "the questions" to rest. This is how it works.

Is is, of course, propaganda. It is intended as propaganda, it is invented as propaganda, it is promoted as propaganda. Karl Rove did not care whether Hillary Clinton was in the hospital for a few days or a month; he did not care whether Hillary Clinton was wearing sunglasses meant for "brain injury" or the same sunglasses she has been photographed wearing dozens of times before or since. Rich Lowry does not care that Karl Rove was lying about both those things, and is eager to write a column suggesting that the question has been raised as to whether Rove's provably false statements are somehow true anyway. The nice mainstream news outlet is happy to publish Rich Lowry raising the question, because being a nice mainstream news outlet means studiously avoiding critiques as to whether what you are publishing is in fact fraudulent, because it is naturally newsworthy that professional liars are asking the questions (in our own outlet) and now the questions are out there (in the self-same outlet).

We continue to be a nation that deals out no punishment for being a professional liar. On the contrary, we treat them very well, better than those that do not lie, in fact, because the liars are always sure to generate all-important buzz, and we give them columns and op-eds, and write columns and op-eds about them, and there is literally nothing they can say that is so provably false as to finally discredit them as peddlers of falsehoods. There can be no such thing as an informed populace if those that would inform them steadfastly insist that lying to them is just as good; the press is not truly free if it has been captured as a tool of propagandists, and willingly submits itself to the same.

This is how it works, and this is why we are now a nation that sees the ghosts of conspiracy in every corner. This is why there is a Bundy ranch standoff, and why Benghazi! will get more hearings than all other attacks on American diplomatic outposts combined, and why climate change will continue to be disputed even as large parts of Antarctica cave off into the rising seas. This is why we fought a war in Iraq, and why those that peddled it have faced no professional repercussions. Because we continue to treat truth and ideologically laced falsehood with exactly equal merit, as if they are two equally worthy opponents for our attention and our respect, and govern ourselves with notions taken just as liberally from the falsehoods as from the facts.

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Comment Preferences

  •  It is a bigger sin to call a liar a liar (56+ / 0-)

    than for somebody to be a liar in our politics.

    That is a dream come true to Movement Conservatism.

    Don't respect a stacked deck. Don't play a rigged game as if it is legit. Call out blatant bad faith and refuse to stop calling it out no matter what the Village reaction.

    A whole lot of truly horrible things that go down in our discourse are able to go down over and over and over again because they are things that are enabled by respecting the rigged one-sided rules that completely screw you over as a non-Conservative.

    "Real journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." -George Orwell

    by LeftHandedMan on Sun May 18, 2014 at 09:35:27 AM PDT

    •  Reality TV (20+ / 0-)

      "News" is now simply another form of Reality TV, and just like the loudest and most obnoxious personalities will always get cast on Survivor, so too will the right wing clowns find airtime on cable "news."

    •  hey Tucker Carlson is all upset about the racism (13+ / 0-)

      he has had to face all his life
      http://www.rawstory.com/...
      and now the mean, nasty, stinky racists are at it again

    •  It's so weird to me (29+ / 0-)

      to talk about this without discussing the elephant in the room.

      Non-Conservatives treating a straight-up back alley mugging like they will be punished if they respond to the abuse by delivering a swift dose of pain in response.

      The one-sided cults of civility and bipartisanship at all costs. Who set these rules for Democrats? The GOP and the Village. Who do these rules never apply to? Republicans and the Village.

      Sure, the GOP does a lot of shitty things.

      Sure, the Village is full of useful idiots who carry their water.

      Why wouldn't they?

      They get away with it. It works for them.

      Why wouldn't Politico and Karl Rove be this way?

      They suffer no consequences for being this way.

      They understand pain. They stop when it hurts. So.

      Make it hurt.

      You have to attack them, by name, the GOP and the Village both, when they do this shit.

      The only way to start breaking the wash, rinse, and repeat cycle of the beltway is to behave in the ways that the GOP and the Village both have a vested interest in keeping you from adopting.

      One of the best moves that Harry Reid ever made in his Senate leadership career was making a fool out of David Broder when David Broder said that Reid was on an island and that his party didn't really support him or respect his leadership.

      Reid set up a theatrical vote of the caucus to make Broder look like a dunce, and he did.

      Did this become the standard? No.

      It works. Why not learn from what works? Why?

      This isn't complicated. You are not in a debate with a mugger. He's mugging you. Punch the motherfucker in the face. Americans might say they like nice guys, but my entire adult lifetime tells me that Americans will vote for a bully they disagree with over a victim who they do agree with more often but whose cowardice and timidity makes them cringe.

      There is more than enough evidence over the years that being aggressive and letting them squirm works for the Democratic Party.

      It is baffling to me that far too many Democrats in DC behave as if they just have to take it. Either because they have bought into the notion that they will be punished by the voters for giving as much hell as they get, or because it is far better to be a noble loser in the ashes that a mean ol' winner who knocks his opponents for a loop if they dare throw shitballs and lies around.

      Don't take advice on how to fight and how not to fight from the people who are abusing you, and their useful idiots who help them stack the deck.

         

      "Real journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." -George Orwell

      by LeftHandedMan on Sun May 18, 2014 at 09:55:29 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I don't know how this will go over (33+ / 0-)

        but I am going to say it anyway and if I catch hell I catch hell.

        At some point, you have to admit that you are playing a major part in the perpetual cycle of your being serially treated unfairly. If you have been waiting for sanity to return to a bunch of thugs since your college aged son or daughter was in diapers, you need to stop waiting for Godot. If the only thing you haven't done is give them hell, you might as well give them hell and see what happens. It can't hurt.

        The Democrats being wimps and the GOP being bullies is pretty much legendary in our politics and our discourse.

        They will never stop on their own. Ever.

        There is no shame, no outrage, no smear so great that it wakes them up to behaving like decent fair-minded people and institutions. It's not fair. Life isn't fair.

        Get a fucking helmet, and punch a bully in the nose.

        You aren't alone. There are millions of us. Tens of
        millions of us.

        What are they going to do if the Democrats fight back?

        Is the GOP going to make shit up and lie?

        Is the Village going to cover the two parties unfairly?

        That's been the status quo since the Reagan years.

        It can't get worse. It can't. The coverage of the Democratic Party is practically dictated by the Movement Conservative Right. What is unfair to say about a conservative is pretty much dictated by the Conservative movement. And they still call them the liberal news media. It's a joke.

        So don't be in on the joke.

        The Village is the way it is because the Village became a toady to make their own abuse at the hands of the Movement Conservative Right stop. They are Theon become Reek from Game of Thrones.

        Better to be feared than chase attaboys and kudos from Fred Hiatt and the lovely people who put Lara Logan on 60 Minutes and Judy Miller above the fold of the NYTs and who never fail to find a job for Tucker Carlson.

         

        "Real journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." -George Orwell

        by LeftHandedMan on Sun May 18, 2014 at 10:07:38 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Anger is icky (5+ / 0-)

        the first one who swears loses the 'argument'..these are basic truths that make your suggestions unworkable, that we as people do not reward or support anger in general, but favor 'nice' and the apostrophe's are meant to make 'nice' as icky as I can possibly make it.
          That's why tv can package it for us, who wants to actually live with the AngryMan™ or next to him?

        People don't want fights and harsh language: notice Karl Rove has that rictus smile as does the Carlson stooge and that other fucjhead with the 'Journal' sumpin sumpin, wossname, fuck him. They all have a smirk, David Brooks, smirker...and on and fucking on.

        It's all bullshit, the smirk originally meant to not get the crap pounded out of them on the playground for being the lying tattletail genetic manipulating backstabbing weenies they were meant to be.

        The smirk is so they can say wiseass stuff, protect their carefully propped up ego and get away without the wedgies that should go with the sentiments behind their smirky confusing on purpose remarks. At essence this is probably a result of school bullying and a failed family life come back to haunt us all as punishment.

        People won't rec this remark, it's not 'nice'.

        Therefore I'm right...see, it works.

        This machine kills Fascists.

        by KenBee on Sun May 18, 2014 at 01:29:36 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Why not learn from what works? (0+ / 0-)
        Be careful when you fight the monsters, lest you become one. - Friedrich Nietzsche
        Or, if you prefer a different source:
        For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?
        We want to win, yes; but we want to still have a civil, democratic society when we do win. Thus we must always fight with the gloves on, even when they don't.
      •  You obviously didn't read the diary (0+ / 0-)

        on 'ratfucking' and the comments in it

        or maybe you did and that's why you had your mini rant.  A righteous one BTW.

        This is your world These are your people You can live for yourself today Or help build tomorrow for everyone -8.75, -8.00

        by DisNoir36 on Mon May 19, 2014 at 05:14:34 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Conservatives worked hard to achieve this (7+ / 0-)

      They knew they'd need to be able to lie to stitch together their coalition of voters and tell them what they want to hear, all while pushing policies that only benefit a very small minority of the population. So they worked hard to both discredit the "liberal media", purchase said "liberal media" and enforce their editorial slant on it, and also create their own media to push the narratives.

      I suppose it's a dream come true that enough people live here that will buy the BS, but they worked hard and spent a lot of money to achieve this dream status. Now if only they can figure out the perfect lie to pull in the growing segments of our society, but that may prove tough while still motivating their base "base" to turn out in midterm elections.

      •  It was a massive (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Yonit, Dave925

        Investment, buying the media to spew their horseshit. But the ROI has reached the "point of diminishing returns." It's not working like it once did. Too many sources from which to gather info now. They're going to get run over in 2016 and they know-fear it. This CRAP from the crap mongers is just going to piss people off. Their usual attacks are going to backfire hard on these idiots come national election time. The race baiting and attempts to limit minority and poor voters had what effect last time? POC basically said "screw you. We'll die waiting in these long ass lines if we have to." Just wait. They're already starting with the "she's too old and FRAIL to lead our Country." Yeah that'll end well for them....Piss off ALL the women in this country, regardless of party affiliation, more than you already have. The backlash will come. God have mercy on their souls. Black though their souls are.

        "Because we are all connected...."

        by Shawn87 on Sun May 18, 2014 at 01:23:03 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  The Reagan-worshipers are nothing if not (17+ / 0-)

    dirty propagandists.  

    "Trust me... I've been right before." ~ Tea party patriot

    by Calvino Partigiani on Sun May 18, 2014 at 09:36:52 AM PDT

  •  So rove (19+ / 0-)

    is trying to "ratfuck" the 2016 Democratic Presidential Primary...

    6% of scientists are republican. Scientists have no explanation why that number is so high.

    by fugwb on Sun May 18, 2014 at 09:38:15 AM PDT

  •  Don't Lie to Me, Argentina . . . (8+ / 0-)

    No wait.

    Don't Like to Me, Mainstream Media,
    the truth is my brain is a big mess . . . .
    All through my wild days
    My big Benghazi
    I kept my promise
    Don't keep your distance

    Once you put convenient, lethal force in the mix, liberty becomes a zero sum game. -- DIgby on open carry.

    by Rikon Snow on Sun May 18, 2014 at 09:38:22 AM PDT

  •  Republicans need (0+ / 0-)

    to get their own house in order because it's in shambles!

    •  actually shambles would be an improvement (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      followyourbliss, OleHippieChick

      the disarray they display is surely worthy of a neologism

    •  I wish. (7+ / 0-)

      It's a very designed, organized and well funded "shambles."

      It may be the end of them some day, or at least they'll be forced to change. (If they don't change it will be because they're winning and this country will go into decline the likes of which it's never seen)

      But in the mean time, and it's already been a very long time, 30 years, they are damaging this country and the rest of the world---what climate change?---in a way some doubt can be fixed, and certainly not easily fixed.

      "A typical vice of American politics is the avoidance of saying anything real on real issues." Theodore Roosevelt.

      by StellaRay on Sun May 18, 2014 at 10:13:57 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I disagree. The GOP is in the form it has accepted (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      LinSea, Shawn87, KenBee, aitchdee, Yonit

      ... by acquiescence. There are no shambles there.

      What is there are (1) Hard Core Extremists - in several groups with some cross-appeals among them - hunkered down to push their own brands of extremism. Some academics (in The Gamble) estimated the Tea Party Republicans - the majority of these people - at 25% of total Republican voters. I believe that's ballpark, though a bit low. These are the ones who win primaries in safe and some marginal districts, thereby electing their reps ahead of the general elections. They also prevail in many state-level elections because they can energize their voters and win some others to their cause with code phrases and fear of change.

      On the other hand, there are (2) some Long-Standing Professional Republicans - some US Senators, several key GOP strategists and a few monied folk - who want to pull back from Group 1's demonstrably exotic and increasingly untenable extremism. In numbers, this is a minuscule cadre, but it can become influential among the slowly growing ranks of those getting disaffected by Group 1. If they go public and get some visible support among the ranks of other Republican professionals (I'm not talking about the voters here), they'll start to isolate Group #1 and try to start to begin to maybe one day take the Party back.

      But they are chipping away with sappers' chisels at the bastions of the Republicans' intellectually walled-off castles. They won't succeed in any soon time frame.

      I believe (3) the Huge Middle of Republican voters don't follow politics that closely, aren't up to speed and don't really want to be. They could be better called The Huge Muddle, and they mirror America. Together with those groups of Hard Core Extremist voters, they are about 50% of the American voting public, even higher than that in off-Presidential year elections. (In total, they are much less than 50% of the population eligible to vote. But that is another story.)

      They have a low-tax, reduced government mentality and are delighted not to send more money to those takers-of-welfare-without-jobs. They have no attention span for explanations about how those themes play out in practice to diminish the economy and limit themselves and their children. They just aren't doing badly enough personally to care. And worse for us, they do not care much about "social issues". Those are Other People's Issues, not theirs. They go to church, sometimes, and put money in the offering plate because their neighbors will notice if they don't.

      They. Ain't. Gonna. Ever. Constitute. Shambles. The best we can hope for is to have fewer of them and many, many more of us VOTE!

      2014 is HERE. Build up the Senate. Win back the House : 17 seats. Plus!

      by TRPChicago on Sun May 18, 2014 at 11:06:56 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Re: Karl Rove's 2012 election night meltdown.... (19+ / 0-)

    why does anyone listen to anything Rove says anymore??

    B'deep b'deep b'deep....that's all folks!!

    -4.75, -5.33 Cheney 10/05/04: "I have not suggested there is a connection between Iraq and 9/11."

    by sunbro on Sun May 18, 2014 at 09:40:31 AM PDT

    •  I think it's one of the best I've seen (0+ / 0-)

      and hotlisted it too ...

      There is so much propaganda out there.  We need to figure out how to shine a light on it and break it.  Getting a good understanding of "how it is done" will help us better figure out how to fight it, I think.

      “Now folks, by going on that web show, Barack Obama undermined the authority of the presidency. And that is Fox News' job.” - Stephen Colbert

      by Older and Wiser Now on Sun May 18, 2014 at 11:54:07 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Karl Rove (8+ / 0-)

    Damages America by continuing to exist.  

    It is well that war is so terrible -- lest we should grow too fond of it. Robert E. Lee

    by ksuwildkat on Sun May 18, 2014 at 09:46:21 AM PDT

  •  She could... (15+ / 0-)

    use Reagan's

    "I will not make age an issue of this campaign . . . I am not going to exploit, for political purposes, my opponent's youth and inexperience."

    against almost all of the GOP candidates.

    "It's almost as if we're watching Mitt Romney on Safari in his own country." -- Jonathan Capeheart

    by JackND on Sun May 18, 2014 at 09:46:47 AM PDT

  •   "69 if elected and 77 if she serves two terms (19+ / 0-)
    Their "patron Saint" Ronnie Reagan was elected at 70.
    ... such utter Bullshit
  •  If Rove backs Rick Perry (24+ / 0-)

    can we talk about his glasses?  Because it looks to me like those glasses are like the ones used to compensate for brain damage.

    Taking the road less traveled since 1967 .

    by Paragryne on Sun May 18, 2014 at 09:48:57 AM PDT

  •  So Dr Rove is now in the office and diagnosing? (14+ / 0-)

    Not since Dr. GWB diagnosed Terry Schiavo have we had such a feat of modern medicine in action.  However, Hilary was only in the hospital for 3 days first of all.

    Over in Wingertopia, they are doubling down on this, complaining that medical records were altered and that Hilary was MIA for the entire month (I am waiting for the body double theory).  The entire medical staff cooperated in falsifying her records (and JFK was not killed in Dallas but was maintained in a NYC condo owned by Ari Onassis who agreed to shelter the former president in exchange for Jackie divorcing JFK and marrying Ari.  See how deep in Wingertopia swamps I go?)

    The proof of the pudding is the glasses.  They point to this among other things about glasses for TBI
    https://www.youtube.com/...
    The fact those are not the glasses she wore does not deter the faithful as they assert that she changed glasses just before the pics.

    After all, King Karl can't be wrong, can he?    

    •  re. Ayn Rand & Wingertopian (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Aunt Pat, organicus, Yonit

      Her influence on the RWNJ and the  and the damage her randian acolytes have done to: capitalism, freedom etc. etc. is proof that Ayn Rand was a bolshevik sleeper agent.

      See you one conspiracy from Wingertopia :)))

      *see Digby's postings on Ayn Rand

    •  Actually, for one month, Hillary DID wear (0+ / 0-)

      a lense on her eyeglasses (on her left eye) that corrects temporary double vision after traumatic brain injury.  Hillary admitted this herself, and that fact is readily available from her team if you search on the internet.

      That does not discount the crazies of the right-wing loonies.  But we need to be factual and truthful.

      "Privatize to Profitize" explains every single Republican economic, social and governing philosophy. Take every taxpayer dollar from defense, education, health care, public lands, retirement - privatize it, and profit from it.

      by mumtaznepal on Sun May 18, 2014 at 08:28:51 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  double vision is a normal outcome of even (0+ / 0-)

        a mild concussion.  Ask any footballer or rugby player.  It is not considered a TBI in the ordinary use of the term.  TBI is generally used in popular parlance as referring to a catastrophic insult to the brain, such as our vets discovered with IEDs which has residual physical and mental deficits.  That is what Rove was attempting to hint at.

        Glasses do not, sadly, help those with catastrophic outcomes from trauma    

        •  I was in a car accident (struck at 50 mph by (0+ / 0-)

          person running a red light) I didn't lose consciousness, and yes, I was diagnosed w/ TBI.

          No comparison to the vets and IED's you speak of, of course.  

          Hillary's injury was mild, she had some residual dizziness and double vision, which has resolved, and yes, Rove sucks.

          Every time a RW mentions Hillary, mention Ronald Reagan and Alzheimers in office

          "Privatize to Profitize" explains every single Republican economic, social and governing philosophy. Take every taxpayer dollar from defense, education, health care, public lands, retirement - privatize it, and profit from it.

          by mumtaznepal on Mon May 19, 2014 at 11:44:14 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  The way Karl Rove creates images (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    KayCeSF, a2nite, indres, Redfire

    of opposing candidates: (What an effen loon Rove is)

    -4.75, -5.33 Cheney 10/05/04: "I have not suggested there is a connection between Iraq and 9/11."

    by sunbro on Sun May 18, 2014 at 09:52:11 AM PDT

  •  It's not so much the (8+ / 0-)

    messenger's fault - it's our fucked up media that feeds the flames. Chuckie T summed the problem up best when he said it was not his job to report facts - why do that when the bullshit is so spectacular?

    •  Charlie Rose supports the whole thing. He had (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      OleHippieChick, indres, KenBee, Yonit

      a guy on from Politico, for instance, to explain the firing of Jill Abramson.  The show may as well have been a script written by Sulzberger.  At no time was there any discussion of Abramson's expertise, such as having 8 (!) pulitzer prize winners on her watch.  Politico needs to be tarred and feathered, and maybe Rose will hire people who tell the whole truth.

      Putting the fun back in dysfunctional.

      by hawkseye on Sun May 18, 2014 at 10:24:44 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Rove, Politico are brain-damging the media. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    a2nite, Shawn87, Yonit

    Rich Lowery not so much as he comes across as a fishy hack and entirely lacking in credibility.

  •  These wrestling matches are truly riveting. n/t (0+ / 0-)

    The 1% are Purists: They only support Candidates that Deliver Results They Can Bank On. Don't they know they should compromise? /sarcasm

    by Johnathan Ivan on Sun May 18, 2014 at 09:55:23 AM PDT

  •  the same age as Ronald Regan? (7+ / 0-)

    And women tend to live longer than men, and do better in old age.  After all, by the time Reagan was elected he was likely already heading to dementia, something that fully expressed and used to prevent him from being held responsible for selling guns to terrorist.

    So I can see why Rove would want to impose this dementia on Clinton. Except unlike Regan, who was mostly a community organizer for the liberal California unions, the governor of a west coast state, Clinton has actually represented the values of the country, like not getting divorced from her spouse, raising her child, and, oh yeah, secretary of state and running campaigns, not being demented.

  •  Politico is the CNN of the internet--- (9+ / 0-)

    both considered serious outlets, both totally unserious in their dedication to any sort of real journalism.

    They are The Housewives of the Punditry, and their priorities are not about the news, and certainly not about the facts. Like every other reality show, their priority is the buzz, the noise, the empty useless arguments AND the skills of strategic distraction from anything close to the real issues. See my sig.

    Their "stars" are those who create that buzz, (Karl Rove---chief bumble bee) and God forbid you piss them off by questioning their lies, because then they will not come back and create more noise and more buzz….and in the end it's "Dancing with the Stars on the Head of a Pin."

    Nothing more to be said about FOX that hasn't already been said, but I know smart people, good Democrats, who consider CNN their home news channel. Now that's scary. And they wouldn't even know what Politico is.

    "A typical vice of American politics is the avoidance of saying anything real on real issues." Theodore Roosevelt.

    by StellaRay on Sun May 18, 2014 at 10:01:16 AM PDT

    •  it's why i don't click on their headline links... (0+ / 0-)

      ...and wish DK would stop giving them any credibility with front page news and links.  it gives them traffic.

      I'm a blue drop in a red bucket.

      by blue drop on Sun May 18, 2014 at 11:20:38 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Outside of DKos, they are legit. Sorry. It true. (0+ / 0-)

        New Republic: So are the left-wing blogs as bad as the Tea Party ones in this case? -------------------------Chuck Schumer: Left-wing blogs are the mirror image. They just have less credibility and less clout.

        by AlexDrew on Sun May 18, 2014 at 01:51:51 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Not at issue. (0+ / 0-)

          They may be considered "legit" by those who don't know any better, but that doesn't mean they are either "credible" (the term used by the person to whom you are replying) or dedicated to "real journalism" (as the parent commenter said.)

          "Lone catch of the moon, the roots of the sigh of an idea there will be the outcome may be why?"--from a spam diary entitled "The Vast World."

          by bryduck on Mon May 19, 2014 at 01:35:46 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Any time one of these RW extreme monsters opens (8+ / 0-)

    his/her mouth, they're lying. I don't bother listening any more.

    I voted Tuesday, May 6, 2014 because it is my right, my responsibility and because my parents moved from Alabama to Ohio to vote. Unfortunately, the republicons want to turn Ohio into Alabama.

    by a2nite on Sun May 18, 2014 at 10:01:24 AM PDT

  •  Im actually starting to think it doesnt matter (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Maverick80229, Shawn87, Yonit

    Fox is no longer a credible news source for anyone who is not already in total denial.  Of my friends who watch Fox there is not convincing them that anything good comes from this administration.  They hate Hillary without being able to give a single reason.  I don't think anyone who is on the fence about Hillary is going to listen to Fox about her.  And honestly, I don't hunk anyone who is on the fence about Hillary is going to vote for a Republican.  If they are on the fence, their other option is Biden or who ever else runs on the Dem side.

    It is well that war is so terrible -- lest we should grow too fond of it. Robert E. Lee

    by ksuwildkat on Sun May 18, 2014 at 10:02:04 AM PDT

  •  Well said (7+ / 0-)

     It is well beyond time to demand balance and judgment in our media. As Charlie Pierce well put it- if I see someone walking down the street with a duck on his head, I should be able to say "HE HAS A DUCK ON HIS HEAD." I don't need Karl Rove or Bill Kristol or Sparkle-Pants Lowry to say "Well, it might be a new type of hat" and have me waste time debunking this. IT'S A DUCK.

       Just because these people have opinions does not mean our media should give them time to the nation's airwaves to spread their lies. As the poster puts it, this is how Goebbels' "Big Lie" method works, but our media doesn't seem to care as long as the campaign ads come in. They need to be held to account just like any politician would.

  •  All credit goes to the man who elevated mendacity (7+ / 0-)

    to that most American of all professions: Edward Bernays, creator of "public relations", aka advertizing, communications, political spin doctors,  etc. I.e. Karl Rove's profession. Also Rich Lowry's profession.

    These days, mendacity has grown into a big science, and entire academic disciplines revolve around it. Those old fashioned sciences, that studied nature and tried to find truths about it, are regularly blocked by the lucrative lies of the professional spin doctors. This is American epistemology, and we have Bernays to thank for it - though others helped pave the way for him.

    American Presidents: 43 men, 0 women. Ready for Hillary

    by atana on Sun May 18, 2014 at 10:10:23 AM PDT

  •  It is despicable. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    OleHippieChick, Yonit

    Isn't endlessly filling 24 hour "news" cycles with gossipy effluvia an intentionally un-American tactic by the corporate media owners?
    Just asking the question.

  •  Karl Rove is making it known ... (6+ / 0-)

    up and down K Street that he still gives the best blowjobs in Washington D.C., and that he is no $20 hooker; he is the high dollar shit. Those cruising K Street in their blacked out Bentleys, like Charles and David Koch, are going to have to pay up, if they want his full throated performance.


    If music be the food of love, then laughter is it's queen, and likewise, if behind is in front, then dirt in truth is clean.

    by glb3 on Sun May 18, 2014 at 10:11:55 AM PDT

  •  Self-Delusional, Pathological Dishonesty, (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    indres, Nisi Prius, Shawn87, Yonit

    Megalomania, Bigotry, & Psychopathic GREED & Selfishness are all that the Party of Stupid & Offensive have to offer.

  •  Just In: Rove Being Treated for Syphilis? (13+ / 0-)

    Karl Rove was recently spotted near a free clinic where people have been known to seek treatment for late stage syphilis. Also noted was a band aid, often used to cover syphilis sores, on Rove's face where some syphilis sufferers often have open, oozing sores from the syphilis.

    Going to Colorado in My Mind

    by Zwoof on Sun May 18, 2014 at 10:12:49 AM PDT

  •  More accurate info on the glasses (0+ / 0-)

    This site has better information on the glasses thingy:

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/...

  •  Dr Evil looks like a balding white man (4+ / 0-)

    Screw sharks with laser beams and bombs that destroy worlds.  Evil villains in America look just like Carl Rove.  
    This guy hates humans.  Or maybe he just hates Americans.   I get the impression he was mercilessly beaten up as a child and wants to see everyone burn.  

    What's the difference between the Federal government and organized crime? One's legally sanctioned.

    by FrankenPC on Sun May 18, 2014 at 10:13:46 AM PDT

  •  The untruth is out there. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    indres, Friend of the court, Shawn87

    Just saying it, Benghazi, Hillary brain-damaged, etc., makes it so in the dumbed down America.

    "Let's stay together"--Rev. Al Green and President Obama

    by collardgreens on Sun May 18, 2014 at 10:14:25 AM PDT

  •  No American Flag Lapel Pin on Karl Rove ---- (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Kdoug

    the emperor has no clothes (or patriotism).

  •  Just Wait Until The First Presidential Debate..... (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Maverick80229, Lysis, Shawn87, Yonit

    It will become abundantly clear who really has the brain damage.

    Hillary has been thru much, much worse.  She can slice & dice w/ the best of them.  Although I'm not her biggest fan,  even I have to admit she's been tested to the max.  Karl Rove is a little gnat buzzing around the lady's ankle.

    Not to worry.  She'll be inaugurated.....twice.  

  •  Lowry is a chronic asshole — case closed! (5+ / 0-)

    ... and, if you want evidence of serious 'brain damage', take a gander at Rove spazzing out at the 2007 Radio-Television Correspondents' Association Dinner (with chronic enabler David Gregory playing Ginger Rogers to Rove's Fred Astaire).

  •  Do not forget the richer gargoyles (0+ / 0-)

    The Koch brothers are pouring money into elections from local dinky towns to major national level political campaigns.  Their's and Rove's and Adelson's money has to be neutralized.  Liberal Democrats have to ignite and get a dynamic spirit moving.

  •  This seems like meaningless pearl-clutching (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Shawn87

    I had no problem questioning whether Mitt Romney suffered brain damaged due to the 1968 car accident that left him in a coma.

    It's all part of the game.  

  •  Saint Ronnie??? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Yonit

    It didn't seem to bother any of them that Ronnie Reagan was 70 when he became President and was 78 when he left. Oh, and let's not count those years in office where his mental health was declining because of eventual Alzheimer's.

    So, it's OK for a 70-year-old dude to be President, but not a 70-year-old Woman. Yikes.

    Abortion Clinics OnLine, the world's first and largest source for online abortion clinic information. Join my DK Abortion Group.

    by annrose on Sun May 18, 2014 at 10:29:12 AM PDT

  •  And It's as Old as the Republic, With 1 Anomalous (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    LinSea, Friend of the court, Shawn87

    period of decent journalism coinciding with the 1 anomalous 50 year period in our history when the country was good for the average American --so good that we created our only large comfortable middle class then.

    The anomaly coincided with our strictest regulations on every kind of business and heaviest taxation on their owners and management, which for our public square translates to when our press was least free.

    This problem was created in the time of the original Tea Party not ours. You give corporations sweeping freedom from checks and balances in their core practices, and they will use it to advance their agenda.

    Doesn't matter if their business is buttons or bytes.

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Sun May 18, 2014 at 10:29:24 AM PDT

  •  Damaging America? Really? Seriously? (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    OleHippieChick, AlexDrew, Shawn87

    Or are they just perpetuating The American Way in politics?

    How different is this from the treatment John McCain got in 2008?

    Ronald Reagan?

    There's a reason why FDR kept his polio secret.

    So what if people ask Hillary questions about her health?
    She's a lawyer.
    She's a former first lady and "co-President".
    She's a former Senator.
    She's a former Secretary of State.

    I think she can handle it.

    LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

    by dinotrac on Sun May 18, 2014 at 10:29:33 AM PDT

    •  Because of this. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Jake formerly of the LP

      A lie can travel 'round the world while the truth is putting on its pants.

      She can't "handle" that. Nobody can.

      The only way to combat it is to never let it get off the ground in the first place.

      calling them liars, and being as impolite and uncivil about it as possible, almost always helps. Liars almost always keep their mouths shut if they know thew'll be called a liar in polite company.

      What we lack is the courage to be impolite and uncivil to people who deserve rude incivility.

      In short- WE ARE TOO FUCKING NICE.

      •  Oh boo hoo. (0+ / 0-)

        Politics is politics.

        Query me this, Batman:

        Are you less likely to vote for her because of what Karl Rove says?

        Are the people who listen to Karl Rove any less likely to vote for her?  That, by the way, is a trick question.  I'll bet Karl Rove's listeners wouldn't vote for her under any circumstance.

        The reality is that Hillary Clinton is approaching 70 and had a recent health scare. She WILL be questioned about her health.  Calling Rove a liar will not change that.  

        The best thing she can do is launch energetically into a Presidential campaign while being transparent about her health.  As any fiction writer will tell you, it is better to show than to tell.

        LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

        by dinotrac on Sun May 18, 2014 at 03:52:14 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I will not vote for Hillary no matter what (0+ / 0-)

          I think she's the worst possible candidate we can field and that her presidency, may she never attain the office, will be a very bad thing for all of us for a number of reasons, from national economic policy to Congressional gridlock on any and all policy measures her administration will care to attempt. If you think Republicans have stonewalled Obama, you have seen nothing until another Clinton is in office.

          Hillary is a sellout. She will not be anything remotely like an accomplished President and I don't see her winning reelection (and I won't vote for her second term, either).

          I will write in Warren if I have to, even if she isn't running. But no- I will not vote for Hillary. I remember her husband's disastrous Presidency all too well (DOMA and NAFTA are what made his Presidency a disaster). I do not want a repeat of that.

          We need new blood. Hillary isn't it.

          •  While I can't argue with you, I must note that (0+ / 0-)

            Karl Rove has had no influence on your position!

            I don't think he's going to make much difference in very many people's opinion.  HRC has been around for a very long time.  We more or less know who she is and like/loathe her accordingly.

            LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

            by dinotrac on Sun May 18, 2014 at 07:31:02 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  Hope Christie is the nominee so they can talk (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    OleHippieChick

    about the impact of his weight on his health.

  •  The Three Stooges (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Friend of the court

    of the 21st Century. A comedy act best known for their political insanity. I heart, Moe, Larry, and Curly.

  •  Fantastic analysis, Hunter. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Nisi Prius

    Really well done. Your point cannot be driven home too many times- we have to crush these truly evil people and expose them for the despicable, destructive leeches they are.

    Wag more, bark less.

    by sgrAstar on Sun May 18, 2014 at 10:59:37 AM PDT

  •  the question for the next year... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Yonit

    ...was going to be whether or not H. Clinton was going to run for president.  potential Republican candidates wouldn't know if they were going to be up against her until she announced.  Rove found a clever way to move up the timeline and force Hillary into giving signs that she is running.  Bill may have already slipped up by saying, "it's just going to get worse".

    however, not responding to the accusations will give Republicans all of 2014 to define Hillary and take her down every way they can.  damned if she does, damned if she doesn't.  classic Rove.

    or, Rove is just trying to make himself relevant again.  there's hardly been a peep from him since losing in 2012.

    I'm a blue drop in a red bucket.

    by blue drop on Sun May 18, 2014 at 11:02:23 AM PDT

  •  Love the analysis, Hunter, (7+ / 0-)

    Your writing is so unique.

    So if we completely ignore the part where everything Karl Rove said was an outright lie—she was not in the hospital "30 days," she was not wearing sunglasses meant for "people who have traumatic brain injury" and prominent liar-for-cash Karl Rove either had to know both of those things himself or gets his news primarily from the voices in his own head—then Karl Rove's intended point is "unassailable" because Hillary Clinton is old.
    and this:
    And they will make damn sure the question is out there for as long as it takes to get a flock of morons and dunderheads to believe that there is a conspiracy to not answer the question, even though "the question" was a lie to begin with and no less a lie through each of the various iterations meant to sanitize it enough for the public to forget that the whole thing was a fiction from the start.
    Longest, grammatically correct sentences on the internets. You are a treasure.

    It is ridiculous to pretend that firing teachers based on student test scores, starting charter schools, giving out vouchers or implementing merit pay will overcome the challenges facing a child living in poverty. -Jersey Jazzman

    by Desert Rose on Sun May 18, 2014 at 11:03:30 AM PDT

  •  If Rove were to suffer brain injury, (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    OleHippieChick, Yonit

    and I'm not wishing this on anyone, how could you tell the difference?

  •  Thing I'd like to see on a sunday panel discussion (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Lysis, Shawn87, Yonit

    "Show of hands on whether you believe [provably false accusation] is true?"

    [Their bluff called, no hands go up]

    "I thought so. So, then why in the hell are we even talking about it?"

    The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts. -Bertrand Russell

    by mftalbot on Sun May 18, 2014 at 11:10:38 AM PDT

  •  Not damaging America....only damaging the (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Shawn87

    poor schmucks that buy into this garbage.....

    Expose them to the light...and they winter like a slug....
    Keep it up I say....

  •  Republicans Know a Formula for Sucess (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    LinSea, organicus, Yonit

    when they see one.

    Lying liars lying

    Southern Strategy

    "Look! Shiny object over there!"

    When you can't foment war over a foreign enemy, create a war against a domestic one.

    Suppress the rights of the aggrieved by whipping up fear in the privileged.

    Make the rich richer by telling the poor that Republicans believe in hard work, personal initiative, and making your own opportunity; then, starve, abuse, and pay them nothing for their votes.

    Readers & Book Lovers Pull up a chair! You're never too old to be a Meta Groupie

    by Limelite on Sun May 18, 2014 at 11:17:53 AM PDT

  •  All Rove's appearances should be conditioned on (0+ / 0-)

    his wearing a lie detector hat.  also, it should cover his face. that is all.

  •  Rove (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Yonit

    The Republicans nominated John McCain just 2 elections ago. Ronald Reagan (the Republican deity) was almost 70 when he was elected. But as with everything else, logic is not a factor in Republican comments.

  •  Candy Crowley Displayed Good Journalism (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Shawn87, Yonit

    What she did during the Romney/Obama debate should be the template for how journalists should behave as they cover discourse. When objections are raised in a courtroom, judges rule on whether the testimony should be considered or not. It is not left to the jury to decide whether an objection is valid or not. This approach should be followed by the media. It is a dissservice to the consumer of news to let Rove's assertions about the sunglasses and the length of a stay to merely be objected to by Hillary supporters. Opinions based on fact can be handled in the he said, she said type of coverage. Not the veracity of the facts themselves.

  •  Rove is among the most despicable humans (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Friend of the court, KenBee, Yonit

    on planet earth.  He deserves ridicule and shame.  That is all.

  •  "This is how it works" calls to mind the line (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    organicus

    Obama said in his comedy routine at the whcd a few years ago.
    He was talking about Michelle bachman running for president and questioned if she was eligible because he heard she was born in Canada.
    Then he said "Yes, Michelle, that is how it starts"

    Things start and things grow and things spread

    I would say something more about lazy media except I am thinking about Supreme Court case coming about if it is okay to lie about opponent in campaigns. I have heard many panels discussing it, short discussions only because there was no real disagreement.
    I have been asking for years how they get away with lies when tennis shoe or cereal companies get slammed for even inferring something not proven.

    But the panels all laughed off the case. Lies have always been part of campaigns and who can really determine truth vs lies.

    Compared to this 2010 event in UK

    Phil Woolas, the former immigration minister, has been thrown out of Parliament and the Labour Party after breaking electoral law by making up damaging allegations about his main general election opponent.
    (It actually was 1st time in many years ut had happened, surely skipping over many lies and distortions but it might cause some to think twice)

    If even liberals on these panels don't consider it possible or worthwhile to get such a ruling I guess honesty being demanded by scotus isn't likely.
    Because it's not like they are shoes or cereal, just people who determine direction of a nation.

    So however it starts
    on it goes

  •  This essay explains it so cogently (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Timmethy, Yonit

    and wittily.

    The ability to go on television and make outlandishly false statements that pass as "journalism" and "news" comes simultaneously with the gutting of the FCC's "equal time" requirement.

    Without it, newscasters can broadcast propaganda with no counterarguments required.

    The left has good sources of counterarguments available to internet users, but not so good for anybody in the populace who falls outside the community of easy access.

    We need more broadcast and material media that's not web based to present those counterpoints in the national discourse.

    "Woe to those who make unjust laws,
    to those who issue oppressive decrees, to deprive the poor of their rights
    and withhold justice from the oppressed of my people, 
making widows their prey
    and robbing the fatherless."

    by Snarky McAngus on Sun May 18, 2014 at 12:19:10 PM PDT

  •  Here's an idea: (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Yonit

    Let the Mighty Wurlitzer build up unstoppable momentum, intent on destroying Hillary Rodham Clinton. Let the talking heads reach a fever pitch of foaming hatred, aimed squarely at one target, for the next solid year, or even longer.

    Then nominate Elizabeth Warren.

    All that hot air, bursting forth with all the force of a wet squib. It would be a thing of beauty, and a joy forever.

    Oh, and we'd get a President who would be on the side of the ordinary citizen, as a kind of a special bonus not seen since Teddy Roosevelt.

  •  Hillary picks up votes the more he talks (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Lysis

    Bring it on and don't stop before election day. Please. I hope we get more of the same. I hope Hillary continues to Rope a Dope and let him continue with the impotent low blows he is fond of. The shit don't work no more. He will motivate women to vote for Hillary more than Bill Clinton will. Women older than 65 are the best demographic to have on your side. Chronic voters are largely made up of this demographic. The more they reveal themselves as profoundly evil the better the results on election day.

    Patriotism is the last refuge to which a scoundrel clings. Steal a little and they throw you in jail. Steal a lot and they make you king.... Dylan

    by bywaterbob on Sun May 18, 2014 at 01:02:07 PM PDT

  •  Unfortunately for Rove (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Yonit

    He can't use Hillary's lack of foreign policy experience. That 2008 card has been taken away.

  •  Superb diary (0+ / 0-)
    We continue to be a nation that deals out no punishment for being a professional liar. On the contrary, we treat them very well, better than those that do not lie, in fact, because the liars are always sure to generate all-important buzz, and we give them columns and op-eds, and write columns and op-eds about them, and there is literally nothing they can say that is so provably false as to finally discredit them as peddlers of falsehoods. There can be no such thing as an informed populace if those that would inform them steadfastly insist that lying to them is just as good; the press is not truly free if it has been captured as a tool of propagandists, and willingly submits itself to the same.
    Hunter has dissected the toxic innards of the right-wing slander monster with an astonishing degree of precision and accuracy.  Well done indeed!

    slow claps

    All that is necessary for the triumph of the Right is that progressives do nothing.

    by Mystic Michael on Sun May 18, 2014 at 01:38:59 PM PDT

  •  Amazing we are still talking about this. (0+ / 0-)

    Even prez 42 responded. Hate to admit it, but Rove won this round.

    New Republic: So are the left-wing blogs as bad as the Tea Party ones in this case? -------------------------Chuck Schumer: Left-wing blogs are the mirror image. They just have less credibility and less clout.

    by AlexDrew on Sun May 18, 2014 at 01:44:19 PM PDT

  •  Thank you Hunter! (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Jake formerly of the LP, 417els

    I just hope I will be able to write half that well when I grow up.
    Also, recommended for anyone who hasn't seen it, The Newsroom breaking down Nancy Grace, the segment where Don dissects the coverage of the Casey Anthony trial is priceless.

    "Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell." - Edward Abbey

    by dougiemac in WA on Sun May 18, 2014 at 02:09:56 PM PDT

  •  Benghazi-gate began wiht (0+ / 0-)

    You can't make this stuff up.

    by David54 on Sun May 18, 2014 at 02:23:47 PM PDT

  •  Benghazi-gate began with Romney's (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mjd in florida, Yonit

    idiot press conference the day after and the subsequent derision his "foreign policy" capacity garnered.
    Then Rove came out with a sliver to cling to, and McCain and the rest of the gop and the media followed suit.

    This is just more of the same. Rove has found his niche.

    You can't make this stuff up.

    by David54 on Sun May 18, 2014 at 02:29:01 PM PDT

  •  Sorry to be a wet blanket (0+ / 0-)

    but health is  a legitimate  issue for a presidential candidate and the Benghazi episode stunk the place up pretty bad at the time and it still smells.   Democrats need to wise up and look for a better option.   Voting for a candidate whose best qualification is that she is female will get you to the same place you are now because you voted for a candidate whose best qualification was that he was black.

    And never, ever vote for any one named Bush or Clinton for President.

    •  Bordering on RW troll bullshit (0+ / 0-)
      the Benghazi episode stunk the place up pretty bad at the time and it still smells.
      I'm very tempted to troll rate you just for this bit of RW bullshit.  

      This is your world These are your people You can live for yourself today Or help build tomorrow for everyone -8.75, -8.00

      by DisNoir36 on Mon May 19, 2014 at 05:36:43 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  As an aside... (0+ / 0-)

    So Hillary Clinton will be the same age as Ronald Reagan when he ran for president in 1980. Can she wave away all these concerns about her age by making the same joke as Reagan or does she have to come up with her own joke?

    "I will not make age an issue of this campaign. I am not going to exploit, for political purposes, my opponent's youth and inexperience."

    It was good enough for the gander.

  •  there's sometimes a price to pay, though ... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    417els

    which needs sharing.

    Kelly was arrested late Friday on a charge of exploiting a vulnerable adult. He's accused of using an image of Cochran's wife in an online video.

    State Sen. Chris McDaniel is challenging the six-term senator in a GOP primary. McDaniel says he does not have any ties to Kelly.

    Spokesmen for both campaigns say they learned about the video April 26.

    yeah, that's what they "say" alright.

    TRAILHEAD of accountability for Bush-2 Crimes? -- Addington's Perpwalk.

    by greenbird on Sun May 18, 2014 at 04:56:29 PM PDT

  •  CNN allowed conversation about what Rove said (0+ / 0-)

    -even putting the "30 days in the hospital" quote up on the screen-without immediately saying that the 30 days was a 10 fold lie. I just watched a clip (someone posted it on FB) and they went on and on, at least in this clip, from introducing the quote (so it was the start of the topic/segment) to the discussion without mentioning the lie.

    I am sorry that I don't know how to link it. The Colbert Report linked above has a smaller snippet of same CNN conversation in it.

    No wonder why Americans are duped. Anyone flipping through channels or seeing this quote uncorrected but taken seriously-with the lie slipped in a long with his "concern about her age"-will be duped.

    God the media sucks now. So much for the liberal media.

  •  Hillary was wearing glasses only worn by those (0+ / 0-)

    with traumatic brain injury.  Rove is correct on that.

    Not sunglasses, but glasses. She wore them for about a month, it helps with double vision.  She verified this.

    Hunter, need to do some background before misquoting Rove.  He said glasses, not sunglasses.  That part of your diary isn't accurate.

    "Privatize to Profitize" explains every single Republican economic, social and governing philosophy. Take every taxpayer dollar from defense, education, health care, public lands, retirement - privatize it, and profit from it.

    by mumtaznepal on Sun May 18, 2014 at 07:32:44 PM PDT

  •  predicted this (0+ / 0-)

    in this diary

    WHY THERE SHOULD BE A PRIMARY CHALLENGE TO HILLARY CLINTON?

    I knew this was the ONLY line of attack for Republicans

     Hillary just needs to look spry , healthy and sharp from now until election

    "Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservative." - John Stuart Mill

    by smartone on Sun May 18, 2014 at 08:29:18 PM PDT

  •  The Media's Aide to Liars (0+ / 0-)

    Hunter,
    Thank you for lying out and itemizing the blueprint for techniques used in obtaining media assistance in turning unfounded statements into lies.  I wish more people could see this pattern as clearly as you have described it.
    The other manipulation, of which Conservatives are fond, is to dovetail money-raising techniques into the stories they invent.  In $5, $10 and $20 increments, they raise money from their "grassroots" supporters.  Funds raised will be used towards "combating" whatever bogus crisis can be contrived from currently existing innuendo.  Not only does the GOPTP prevent a large number of their base from obtaining medical insurance (Medicaid) or, cut them off from unemployment or, whittle down the number of constituents receiving SNAP(formerly known as food stamps), they then collect whatever loose change folks may have left via frequent,  direct mailing campaigns.  
    I really do wish that those affected in this manner would understand how they are being used.  Then perhaps this country, and they, would have a chance.

  •  Whats new (0+ / 0-)

    Facts have never been a strong point when it comes to Republicans being honest with the American People. Rove as well as Lowery have been liars from the time they entered into politics and they always will be liars. This is in their blood, their nature, their DNA. The sad part is that they have idiots who want to believe or will believe in anything these liars say.

  •  By this logic, politicians lie about s*x--thus, (0+ / 0-)

    Hillary will have to deal with questions about whether she wears a clown outfit and honks a bicycle horn while she's having it, and forces her multiple partners to play swing jazz at the same time.

    Rich Lowry's seat on the McLaughlin Group, which rotates between him, James Pethokoukis, and Susan Ferrecchio, is known as the "Twerp Seat" in our house.

  •  Do not throw stones Carl. (0+ / 0-)

    Carl Rove commented about Clinton's mind.

    Was Carl Rove dropped on his head at birth or sometime later?  How about run through an old fashion wringer?  Just take a look at the shape of it!

  •  Seriously, I do not understand the anger (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    raspberryberet

    I mean, sure, Rove is a scumbag and a consummate propaganda creator -- and about as amoral as they come.  Anger at him I understand.

    But why the concern that this will push Clinton's age into the spotlight?  The truth is this:  she will be OLD when she runs (if she runs).  She will be OLDER by the end of her terms.  That IS an issue.  It would have been an issue whether Rove had pushed it or not.

    And she had a bad medical condition.  That is something that would have become an issue, too.

    All Rove did was make it come up NOW instead of LATER.  To that end, pro-Clinton democrats should actually THANK him rather than curse him.  The specter of bad health and old age seriously harm a male candidate for major office -- and they are even worse for a female one.  It is unfair, I know -- but it is true.

    So… Clinton had to deal with these issues, now or later.  Right now she hasn't even announced that she is a candidate!  So it is easier to deal with it now, FAR easier.  The public treats potential candidates a lot nicer than it treats actual candidates -- so the public will look at this issue, get concerned, think about it, mull it over… then let it go.

    If/when it comes up again later, voters will think 'oh, yeah, I remember that' and then put it out of their heads.  Because the issue became national now, Clinton's age and health will ultimately be judged based on her competence (or incompetence, according to opponents) rather than a shadowy fear of disease.

    The fact that Rove brought this up now is actually quite strange -- it suggests he is beyond terrified and is hoping to gut her campaign before it starts -- by perhaps drying up funding sources.  That is a fool's errand, since the Clintons have very deep connections to money… so what it REALLY means is that Rove doesn't have much else in his bag of tricks.  Or that he is secretly hoping she really does become president...

  •  And It is The Worst Thing Ever (0+ / 0-)

    Yeah, this sucks, and yeah, journalists are a bunch of idiot cowards who think that "fair and balanced" means that when someone says "the opposite of what they said!" they have to give that argument "equal time" regardless of the merits.

    But I'd care more if Democrats took a more reasoned approach than constantly proclaiming that it's the end of the world in every fundraising email they send me.

    5/13 "crippling defeat"
    5/15 "crushing loss"
    5/16 "gut-wrenching loss"
    5/16 "crushing loss"
    Today "crushing defeat"

    And that's just the few days of trash that hotmail stores, and from the DSCC not the extras from specific politicians.

    Not everything is the worst thing that's happened yet. And they are going to run out of words to scare money out of us before primary season is over. If things are so crippling and crushing and gut-wrenching and "if you don't give us ten bucks now Karl Rove will buy the senate and repeal Obamacare and take away abortion rights and make every child carry a handgun with a candy-flavored barrel" how are things going to be in the fall?

    There's this thing in psychology called "learned helplessness". When you get negative feedback no matter what you do, you stop doing anything. When every donation just results in another desperate plea for more money, and will never end, why bother? Why not save your money to escape to Canada?

    The Democrats are running on fear. Exaggerated unending fear. These are lies as well.

    And when you're told that your contribution will be matched or triple-matched, isn't that good news? Shouldn't we expect that there is some organization or person with money who is doing the matching? Maybe tell us who they are? Maybe they ain't the equal to the Koch Bros, but someone with some money is providing these funds.

    But no, there are no pro-Democrat deep pockets out there, no one to act as a counter example to the Republican League of Super-Villains. That might make us less scared of a crushing defeat.

    There are reasons why the Republicans are not an apocalyptic horde destined to crush all that is good about government unless we hand over another $10 "desperately needed to meet some self-designated deadline right now today!" They have weaknesses. We know them, we discuss them. I'm tired of the fear-mongering of the Democrats, almost as much as the lies of the Republicans. Almost.

  •  women live longer (0+ / 0-)

    In the US, women, on average, live 5 yrs longer than men.

    So a woman who takes office at 69 has typically another 12 yrs of life, whereas a man who takes office at 69 will, on average, die before his 2 terms end.

    McCain would have been 72 when he took office and 80 at the end of 2 terms (the alternate scenario had he died would have been President Palin), 4 years beyond the average age of death for men.

    Ignoring the gender gap in longevity is one way to lie to the public when claiming that Hillary is "too old."

    Compared to McCain, Hillary would take office 12 years before the average death age for women, whereas McCain would have taken office 4 years before the average death for men.

    I won't be voting for Hillary (due to her neo-con foreign policy) but I think it very dishonest to ignore the advantage that women have in living 5 years longer than men.    

  •  And what about Reagan? (0+ / 0-)

    I'll bet Ronnie Reagan is one of Rove's biggest heros, yet he was showing signs of alzheimers (sp.) in his FIRST term!

  •  age lies (0+ / 0-)

    Before Rove and the rest finish spreading lies about Mrs. Clinton, her blood clot and  so called  brain damage they need to be bombard with why didn't they question George Walker Bush about his brain damage caused by being a drunk. Drinking alcoholic  drinks in excess causes brain damage that the brain doesn't recover from. Also they want to use Mrs. Clinton age against her if she decides to run in 2016. If I remember correctly John McClain is a couple or more years older than Hillary who I think is 68 now that means McClain was close to her now age when he ran for President in 2008, then in 2012 Romney ran who is I think the same age as Hillary which means he would have been in his 70's when he left office if he hadn't been beaten, yet not word about these 2 old men running  for President and the likely hood of the job causing them to have a heart attack while in office has come out of Rove's or any other Republican-Tea party office holder etc.
    Everytime someone like Karl Rove is proven to be lying in a article, on a TV show, Facebook or any other media they should be fined, start with a small fine, $100,000 for the first one after that each lie told the fine will be 100,000 plus $10,000, $100,000 plus 20,00 for the third one and so on.

    REGISTER AND VOTE NOVEMBER 2014

  •  "she will be 69 if elected... (0+ / 0-)

    ...and 77 if she serves two terms."

    Just like Ronald Reagan.

    Why, she's practically a saint, then.

    Debating with a conservative is like cleaning up your dog's vomit: It is an inevitable consequence of your association, he isn't much help, and it makes very clear the fact that he will swallow anything.

    by David Franks on Tue May 20, 2014 at 12:36:23 AM PDT

  •  The source? (0+ / 0-)

    "gets his news primarily from the voices in his own head"??

    I think more likely the voices in his cavernous steaming rectum.

  •  I don't know - (0+ / 0-)

    with that big fat head, Rove must be growing quite the tumor -
    because it sure isn't a brain straining to get out.

    One multiverse under a groove.

    by yeahisaidit on Tue May 20, 2014 at 08:44:33 AM PDT

  •  Hillary old and sick? (0+ / 0-)

    Ronald Reagan was older (a month shy of 70 when he took office and a month shy of 78 when he left it) and he was afflicted with Alzheimer's before he left office, which was known by the staff but kept secret.  How was that for "openness?"  I say every time we mention Rove, we pretend to agree with him and point to Reagan as the reason why.

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