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"I don’t know why you girls aren’t attracted to me,” he said into the camera. “But I will punish you all for it.”
The next day, on May 24, news headlines said that a young man named Elliot Rodger in Isla Vista, California, drove around stabbing and shooting until six people were dead. He crashed his car and shot himself dead, leaving families to mourn slain loved ones. And he left behind a 137-page autobiographical manifesto and a collection of YouTube videos; in one entitled Retribution, he said to women: “I don’t know what you don’t see in me. I’m the perfect guy and yet you throw yourselves at these obnoxious men instead of me, the supreme gentleman.”

Misogyny: the hatred of women. It is the emotional atmosphere of a patriarchal society that, like an acidic fog, burns everyone. We breathe it, walk in it, make our lives inside it, forgetting it’s there until loud gunfire comes from a man like Rodger, who is now the face of male supremacy. But after he fades from the news, we will still be left with ongoing violence against women. More than three American women a day are killed by a current or former intimate partner. In 2010, 85,593 women were raped in the United States: that’s 235 a day, and because rape is markedly underreported, even those numbers are low. Women still contend with a wage gap and a glass ceiling. In the Global South, at least 150 million girls have had their genitals sheared off as a “rite of passage.” Women will still be sex-trafficked. And of course, women are killed before birth; over 90 million were aborted in India and China because parents did not want the burden of a girl.

In the United States, women saw in Rodger’s misogynist killing spree an extreme form of the violence they live with every day. The Twitter hashtag #YesAllWomen became a public forum for sharing stories of male violence, spanning from microaggressions to rape. Yet many of us men can’t see ourselves in Rodger. Or read the stories of women’s fear or anger or hurt without laughing (yes, I heard men laughing about it on the subway) or dismissing it as the hysterics of overly sensitive women. We choose not to listen because if we did, it would destroy our self-image, by showing how women too often see us: as tormentors, oblivious and arrogant, who cause pain they are too scared or tired or too hopeless to even talk about.

Boys Will Be Boys

Why are we killing women? I know, I know. An instant defensive wall rises in the brain. I’m not hurting women, I don’t gun them down or rape or harass them. Nor do my boys. It’s not all men!

You’re right, it’s not all men, it’s not you. Relax. You’re off the hook. It’s the Boko Haram or the Black guys on the street corner. No, it’s the Puerto Ricans during their annual parade. Maybe the Indian men who left two raped girls hanging dead from a tree? Better yet, it’s the medieval Saudis who won’t let women drive. Yes, it’s always someone else, somewhere else. It will never be you or me.

And yet, every woman I talk to has a story. Every, single one. At Bed-Stuy’s Civil Service Café, I asked two women about sexism. One told me of being paid less than her male boss while doing his work. The other said she pretended to be made of steel in order to not be hurt by sexist comments at her job.

Later, a friend told me that while drinking at a male friend’s house she blacked out and woke up to find him thrusting inside her. After his orgasm, he got up and asked if his cousin in the next room “could get some too.”

During the New York summer, men’s eyes transform into giant tongues licking women up and down. Participating in everyday guy talk is like passing a pair of scissors around, cutting women into pieces — nice tits, look at that ass, good dick sucking lips on that one!

Men say over and over that it’s not all men. And yet seemingly every woman has a story of sexism. What are the mechanics of this social blindness? One is simple displacement. Privileged men project their sexism downward and outward to the faraway “Other” who is always more brutal and more savage. In comparison to them, we look like extras from The Bachelor. How can we be sexist? We let you drive and vote!

And then of course there’s denial. We minimize the pain our male privilege causes women. Men are trained in, celebrate and have made industries out of violence. Often, pain is visible only if it’s physical. Yet bodily harm is one pole on the spectrum of violence and making it the only “real” form of sexism renders invisible the thousand small acts of disrespect and aggression that women endure each day. But again there’s that question. How can we be sexist? We didn’t leave any marks!

Finally, sexism as an ideological practice “naturalizes” itself with nature and religion. Our dominance is part of the evolutionary order, we hunt, we pursue, we spread our seed, we build and destroy; we lead. Women are weak and emotional. Biology is destiny. Or pick your holy book, the Torah, the Bible, the Koran, all written by men, describing a male god who demands that women obey men. Shocker! Of course it leaves women in the impossible position of “interpreting” religious texts that are hopelessly sexist to eke out a moderate form of devotion.

Sexist ideology and practice are reproduced in institutions. The military, the church, Hollywood, sports, Wall Street, wherever all-male spaces exist or where men dominate and women are tokens, sexism builds and spills over. It recreates us in its image. And it recreates itself in how we imagine ourselves.

No Homo!

Boys, ever feel scared you weren’t a man? Ever stand, lonely, on the outside of a circle of men, who laughed with arms slung on each other’s shoulders? When did you know that a joke about women was the surest way in?

Remember the crack you made about pussy? How they laughed and brought you into the circle. Once inside, everyone took turns climbing this imagined “woman.” You fucked her brains out, hosed her inner organs with your mighty jizz until they were glazed like porcelain, you came on her face in a total bukkake apocalypse until spent from laughter, you left the circle, knowing you were one of the guys.

If in Marxism the commodity is the basic element of capitalism, we can say that in Feminism, objectification is the core process of patriarchy. The turning of a human being into an object that is a tool for your purpose, who has no agency or feelings of her own, a woman interchangeable with other women or a thing you can destroy is the very discursive engine of patriarchy. And it happens because men are not really “men” but human beings performing a gender role, acting “masculine” by exchanging objectified images of women.

When men brag about fucking women, they’re not exactly extolling an authentic connection with another human being. More likely, they’re showing off the grade of conquest, her hair, her skin, her body shape. She becomes a trophy we pass around to others. She’s an object, and possessing her proves our manhood to ourselves and to other men.

It creates the ugly dynamic of sexual entitlement, in which men believe they are owed women’s bodies. And it cuts both ways. Privileged men feel entitled to sex simply because of their wealth, class or racial status. In his manifesto, “My Twisted Life,” Elliot Rodgers — who was half-white and half-Asian — wrote, “How could an inferior, ugly black boy be able to get a white girl and not me? I am beautiful, and I am half white myself. I am descended from British aristocracy. He is descended from slaves. I deserve it more.”

Underprivileged men, who feel too poor, too inexperienced, too ugly, too not enough are often dangerous. They overcompensate by strong-arming women, dominating or abusing them, attempting to control women they fear they can’t keep otherwise. And then there is the subset of men who are insecure about their masculinity not because they’re broke or ugly or awkward but because they’re not really straight. They sublimate their bisexuality into sexist rituals of objectifying women and attacking gays and transgender people, who represent the very desires they repressed in themselves.

These insecurities may be why on an Atlanta train in May, a group of men assaulted two transgender women. They taunted and violently attacked the pair, stripping one of the women naked while bystanders filmed the scene but did not intervene.

A Game of Status

The daily control of women is how patriarchy is maintained. On their bruises we map our property. On their silence, we forge our voice. At the core is our need to be a “man” for other men, and a woman is a checker piece we use to play a game of status with other men. And we are desperate to know we’re men because at our core, we’re never that sure.

There is also a great desire to be free of it. We feel it individually when we are with women we love — romantic partners, yes, but also our family, our friends, our colleagues. Even the most sexist men will defend women they love, because in their compartmentalized minds a special room exists for real relationships that tether them to reality. And we feel it in social movements when, united for a common cause, we want each other’s greatness to shine. In the Slut March of 2011, in the gay weddings of our friends and family, we experience glimpses of that post-sexist world. When authentic human connection lets the man-mask come off, our whole inner being becomes real again.

Now if we can take what we know from our personal and public lives and make feminism a goal among men, our vision of the world will change. When the photo of the Indian girls, raped, strangled and hung from a tree is in the news, we will see their male killers in the same way we now think of whites, gathered around the body of a lynched Black man, as people sick with a terrible ideology that transforms their fear into cruelty.

The first step is incredibly simple — LISTEN! Ask the women in your life what their experience of sexism is and as they talk, just shut up. Do you clench up? Do you feel a wall between your mind and her words? Instead of shutting down, use your defense mechanisms as a map to what scares you about their pain and confront it.

Sadly, some men won’t listen, and they must be challenged and healed when possible, defeated when not. But the desire to be free of sexism does exist. Leaving the Nostrand subway station the other night, I passed through the turnstile as a man was yelling at a young woman, “Come here sweet thing. Get your ass over here. Got this for you.”

I saw her ducking her head as if dodging rocks, and then a guy in overalls yelled, “Nigga what’s wrong with you! Can’t see she want to be left alone.” A circle of us eyed the asshole sexist. “I hate motherfuckers like you,” the man in overalls shouted. “You ain’t a man, motherfucker, do that shit to me, come on bitch, say that to me.” The asshole sexist mumbled some Caribbean gibberish and left as we followed him out with our eyes. And then we looked at each other and I swear we all liked what we saw.

I looked at the young woman, quickly jogging up the steps. Did she?

http://indypendent.org/...

Originally posted to Nicholas Powers on Fri Jun 13, 2014 at 09:08 PM PDT.

Also republished by Sexism and Patriarchy.

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Comment Preferences

  •  I realized one day that after 6 years of (23+ / 0-)

    being together, I had not once listened to my fiancee's story. I asked her about her opinion and perspective, and how she has been effected by patriarchy.

    And I shut up and listen. Her answer surprised me.

    •  Please forgive me for jumping in here, rexy. (6+ / 0-)

      I'd like to just leave a tip for those who might want to skip the lengthy sidetrack like the one that starts with the comment immediately below this one.  Shift plus click on the little down arrow at the beginning of the comment title line collapses the entire thread, making it very easy to skip to the next thread.    

      (and its very good to see you, rm)

      Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.

      by Joy of Fishes on Sat Jun 14, 2014 at 09:35:21 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  So, after objectifying your fiancée for 6 years (0+ / 0-)

      you presume to lecture others on sexism?  The mind boggles...

      •  Er? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        churchylafemme

        Objectifying?

        Really?

        •  I am sure that if you ask her (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          churchylafemme

          it isn't me causing the problems she feels with patriarchy, trust me. We talked for hours about this. I asked several times if I had ever been a part of the problem. Her answer was absolutely not. Ya know, if you have any doubt, she is a member of this website. I can have her take a look at this post and respond in person, if you would like.

        •  Satirical device (0+ / 1-)
          Recommended by:
          Hidden by:
          turn blue

          .... aimed squarely at the mindless perversion of feminism that has been on display for weeks.  

          That you felt compelled to point out having such a normal, unremarkable conversation with your fiancée to appease the packs of rabid dogs patrolling these threads is evidence of the damage that has been done, made worse by duplicitous diaries bemoaning the very eggshells that they are responsible for placing.

            •  Crunch-crunch-crunch... (0+ / 0-)

              (context: "Satirical device aimed squarely at the mindless perversion of feminism that has been on display for weeks.  

              That you felt compelled to point out having such a normal, unremarkable conversation with your fiancée to appease the packs of rabid dogs patrolling these threads is evidence of the damage that has been done, made worse by duplicitous diaries bemoaning the very eggshells that they are responsible for placing." - Theretherethere)

      •  To speak for myself (this is Rexy's fiance) (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        churchylafemme

        I believe you have missed the point of the comment. Rexy and I had been driving home from school one day (a 20-minute commute) and he asked me if I was ever afraid of being raped or sexually assaulted. We had a speaker from a women's shelter come and speak for a gender studies class that we had been taking, and the woman said that many women live in fear daily of being raped or sexually assaulted. He was just wondering if his own fiance felt that way.

        My answer was "no". Being that I'm 5'10" and 300+ pounds, I can honestly say that I do not fear being raped. No, I will not walk down the street in the middle of  the night and risk my safety, as anyone with a gun or a knife can be scary, but just as a thought, no, I am in general not afraid of being raped or sexually assaulted, and yes, I understand that logically rape is about power, not appearance, yet, it never crossed my mind that I would ever be victimized.  

        I have always struggled with my weight, and I got to a point last year where I had lost almost 100 pounds, but something happened psychologically that kept me from actually getting to my goal weight. The attention made me very uncomfortable.
        Writing this now makes me realize that maybe I'm more afraid than I had realized and keeping the weight on is a way to keep alive this illusion that maybe as long as I'm overweight, I won't be desirable to just any random person on the street, but only to those who know me intimately (whom I have let in emotionally such as my wonderful fiance rexy).  

        I will likely post a diary on this matter tomorrow.

        •  My original Reply (0+ / 0-)

          was meant to be as absurd as possible in order to demonstrate how easily even the most benign of comments can be twisted into something ugly and then used against the person who posted it... under the guise of sensitivity and feminism of all things!

          I did not then/do not now believe you were being objectified by your fiancée of 6 years (you both seem quite lovely by the way).

          If this issue has so many people completely losing their shit, then perhaps this is not the appropriate place to discuss it.  Having recently witnessed an upfront and constructive discussion on a topic as potentially loaded and divisive as reparations, I'm pretty sure that the toxic nature of the sexism diaries is a due to specific groups and their petty agendas, with everyone else caught in the crossfire.

  •  How are you going to change people... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Bob Love, mookins, grayday101

    Who don't think like you? I was reading the comments attached to a statutory rape story posted on Facebook and it was split fifty fifty on the opinion that the fifteen year old girl was responsible for seducing the twenty four year old man and that was just the women. The men were even more ridiculous. I don't see how you can police thoughts.

    I sing praises in the church of nonsense, but in my heart I'm still an atheist, demanding sense of all things.

    by jbou on Fri Jun 13, 2014 at 09:21:16 PM PDT

    •  You start by talking to women. (14+ / 0-)

      And understanding their pain, then change your own actions accordingly and point out to other men when their actions are out of line. And you shame men endlessly who think it's the woman's fault for being raped, mistreated, and harmed. Shame them to the point that they feel they have to change. Shame women who think that way too.

      •  Really? (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Bob Love, shann

        And what happens when they tell you to go fuck yourself? Seriously? Relentless scolding is your answer. Good luck with that.

        I sing praises in the church of nonsense, but in my heart I'm still an atheist, demanding sense of all things.

        by jbou on Fri Jun 13, 2014 at 09:31:45 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  If they tell me to go fuck myself? (6+ / 0-)

          Then I cut any ties I had with them just to prove the point that the behavior is unacceptable.

          •  That's cute (0+ / 0-)

            You actually think your scorn matters.

            I sing praises in the church of nonsense, but in my heart I'm still an atheist, demanding sense of all things.

            by jbou on Fri Jun 13, 2014 at 09:36:17 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Obviously you think yours does. (13+ / 0-)

              " *  That's cute (0+ / 0-)."  

              “Listen--are you breathing just a little, and calling it a life?” ― Mary Oliver

              by weezilgirl on Fri Jun 13, 2014 at 09:49:23 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  I am not trying to shame anyone (0+ / 0-)

                I am trying to figure out how this is supposed to help women. From what I can gather it's more about cleaning up the language used by the people he interacts with and not about actually solving the problems women face.

                I sing praises in the church of nonsense, but in my heart I'm still an atheist, demanding sense of all things.

                by jbou on Fri Jun 13, 2014 at 09:53:29 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  For someone trying to figure it out (15+ / 0-)

                  you sure are heaping a lot of derision and doing precious little listening.

                  How about this:

                  There are no one-size-fits-all solutions. #NotAllMen are going to listen no matter what. But being out there and putting these stories and these experiences out there to be heard will reach the ears of those who are willing to listen.

                  "Much of movement conservatism is a con and the base is the marks." -- Chris Hayes

                  by raptavio on Fri Jun 13, 2014 at 10:01:18 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Echo chambers (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Theretherethere

                    You're creating echo chambers, and not actually solving the problems.

                    I sing praises in the church of nonsense, but in my heart I'm still an atheist, demanding sense of all things.

                    by jbou on Fri Jun 13, 2014 at 10:05:11 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  And you would know this, how? (8+ / 0-)

                       Big hat, no cattle. Big horse, no saddle.

                      “Listen--are you breathing just a little, and calling it a life?” ― Mary Oliver

                      by weezilgirl on Fri Jun 13, 2014 at 10:08:03 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                    •  You are acting as though you are terminally stupid (5+ / 0-)

                      when I know it's not at all true.

                      Are you serious when you imply that you are unaware of the act of active listening, and how hearing the story of another person's pain can awaken heretofore unknown feelings of empathy even in a person unable to physically experience such events themselves?

                      If so, I must then assume you've never been to see a film which topped out your "suspension of disbelief" at holy fuck! and in which you found yourself there, in the film so deeply that the end credits left you stunned for just a few moments.

                      Because those are both the same thing.

                      Active listening has the added benefit that when used to communicate with those who have experienced traumatic events, both the speaker and the listener can achieve healing of the psyche through the catharsis of safely relieving events from a distance. Where one can stop and examine single moments at length. Where one can discover the ability to forgive themselves for what was done to them, but for which they've carried a terrible burden of guilt nonetheless.

                      These are some of the things which make us human.

                      I am terribly sorry for you if you act out here in diary after diary, wounding many others with your inelegant and sometimes brutal words, because you lack this critical component. It must be tragically sad to be you.


                      "I like paying taxes...with them, I buy Civilization"

                      by Angie in WA State on Sat Jun 14, 2014 at 08:07:41 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  I am well aware (0+ / 0-)

                        But we weren't talking about active listening, we were discussing the effectiveness of men scolding men for talking about women in a sexist way when only in the company of men.

                        I sing praises in the church of nonsense, but in my heart I'm still an atheist, demanding sense of all things.

                        by jbou on Sun Jun 15, 2014 at 10:23:21 AM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                  •  And it's up to the messenger... (0+ / 0-)

                    To deliver a message people can understand. If I write something and it doesn't get my desired reaction I look at what I did wrong and see if I can make my message more palpable for the masses.

                    I sing praises in the church of nonsense, but in my heart I'm still an atheist, demanding sense of all things.

                    by jbou on Fri Jun 13, 2014 at 10:09:02 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  That refrain (6+ / 0-)

                      very quickly becomes a distraction and a detraction, because there is no way to deliver a message that is going to be heard by all people. Someone will always take issue with it.

                      People who are emotionally invested in talking about Something Else are going to take any imperfection in the message and talk about that rather than the message itself.

                      What you can do, if you want to promote this radical notion that Women Are People, is instead of trying to be hypercritical of a message that doesn't meet your exacting standards of clarity and inoffensiveness, is to try to echo the message in a manner more in adherence to them.

                      If, indeed, that's a notion you want to promote.

                      "Much of movement conservatism is a con and the base is the marks." -- Chris Hayes

                      by raptavio on Sat Jun 14, 2014 at 07:13:44 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                •  'The Language' is at the core of the problem (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  USHomeopath

                  Here:  Read this --

                  http://www.albany.edu/...

                  •  Language is not the problem (0+ / 0-)

                    Language is shallow and open to interpretation.  Actions are what helps define people words are meaningless until you give them meaning.

                    I sing praises in the church of nonsense, but in my heart I'm still an atheist, demanding sense of all things.

                    by jbou on Sat Jun 14, 2014 at 10:41:49 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Speech IS action. Silence is consent/agreement. (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      2thanks

                      In one of your comments here you wrote about being with guys when they were doing the hang-out-and-comment-on-girls thing -- a male-bonding sport described in the diary, and entirely commonplace.

                      You, and every man who finds himself in that situation, has (at least) three choices:

                      1. Join in, actively participating

                      2. Remain silent -- not actively participating, but agreeing/consenting/approving

                      3. Voicing disapproval or objection ('Hey dude, not cool')

                      Two of those options support and help perpetuate this form of objectification and use of human beings as objects.  One choice interrupts that process.

                      Choice 3 might just cause a guy or two to stop and think; or it might allow a guy or two, who is uncomfortable with the sport but afraid to object, to speak up as well.

                      But one thing that the guy who choose option 3 can expect is that he will be turned on and mocked by the other players, probably mocked by being called a particular (coveted and despised) body part.  He will probably also be accused of 'spoilng the game for everybody else' and be told he's 'not one of us', no longer a member of the club.

                      Ooooh.  Scary.

                      It's much easier to derail a diary by saying 'speaking up won't work' that by saying, 'The thought of speaking up is really scary, because the guys will turn on me and mock me and I won't be 'one of them' any more.'

                      •  It's not scary (0+ / 0-)

                        I do it on occasion but I don't see it being effective, in fact some guys now say shit on purpose to get a rise out of me.

                        I sing praises in the church of nonsense, but in my heart I'm still an atheist, demanding sense of all things.

                        by jbou on Sat Jun 14, 2014 at 12:04:05 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  Is this the poker club again? Making you a pet (0+ / 0-)

                          faux-feminist, trained to speak on demand for their entertainment so they can attack you and feminism at the same time?

                          •  Nice of you to discount my experience (0+ / 0-)

                            Because it doesn't fit your view.

                            You're a hypocrite.

                            I sing praises in the church of nonsense, but in my heart I'm still an atheist, demanding sense of all things.

                            by jbou on Sat Jun 14, 2014 at 12:41:25 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  You described the interactions as: (0+ / 0-)
                            in fact some guys now say shit on purpose to get a rise out of me.
                            I read this to mean that:  

                            Some of the guys purposely say woman-hating things in order to make you respond by saying pro-woman things or 'scolding' them. [And you've already made your point that they attack when you 'scold'.]

                            If my reading is incorrect, please clarify.

                            My understanding about bringing up (whatever) to someone to 'get a rise' out of them means that the players know that (subject) always gets a predictable response (the rise) from (subject), and that the whole point of 'getting a rise' out of someone is to mock them and their subject.

                            Maybe I mis-placed my 'faux'; I meant to say that the group is using you as their faux-feminist, not saying that you yourself are a faux-feminist.  That when the groups does this, they are using you as a kind of Chatty Kathy doll, which gives forth a few phrases when her string is pulled.

                            I may very well be mistaken in my reading of this 'saying shit to get a rise' thing.  It could represent some kind of deep, meaningful means of male-bonding that I don't understand -- if that's the  case, please explain to me how that works, because I'm obviously not taking it into account.

                            Because you see, when I first read that 'saying shit to get a rise' thing, I saw that as horribly abusive, and I couldn't understand how anyone could allow themselves to be abused so horribly -- to remain part of a group that repeatedly sets you (and your subject) up for mockery.

                            But what you've explained by this point -- that it is not just your Monday night poker group, but poker groups five nights a week, that treat you in this way, with your acceptance and participation in this treatment of you -- makes it easier for me to understand why you might see the whole world through the filter of what is really a small number of men.  And I can begin to understand why you, writing from a five-night-each-week immersion in mockery of your position (and of you for holding that position), with one part of the group dynamic being to make you participate in your own mockery/abuse -- well, that sentence got out of hand.  But it makes it easier for me to understand why you might take the position here that 'It won't work!  You can't win! You'll only get abused, and will change nothing'.I can begin to see, now, how from your standpoint you could feel that you are trying to protect us, trying to save us from what you experience five nights a week.

                          •  Enough (0+ / 0-)

                            Nice of you to womansplain the male experience interacting with other males to a male. You don’t want to accept my take on things so you are being dismissive and condescending.

                            I sing praises in the church of nonsense, but in my heart I'm still an atheist, demanding sense of all things.

                            by jbou on Sat Jun 14, 2014 at 01:59:47 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Actually, I'm asking you to explain so I can (0+ / 0-)

                            understand better.

                            As you can see, I was saying things like 'This is how I read this . . . this is how I see it'  while asking you to explain and clarify my understanding.

                            So while it is 'womanspeak' insofar as I begin with my own admittedly limited understanding of the situation, and ask you to correct my understanding by providing me with more information.  While this is indeed 'womanspeak' (and reasonable discourse), I don't think it qualifies as 'womansplaining' (which is a pretty dismissive and condescending word for you to introduce, imo).

                            I'm asking you to explain and correct my understanding.  I am asking you to explain "the male experience interacting with other males to a male" as it relates to the situation we're discussing.

                            How can asking for explanation be 'dismissive'?

                            Whether or not you provide the explanation I'm requesting is your choice.  But I do appreciate your having stayed in this discussion long enough to allow me to learn the basis of your defeatism in this thread.

                      •  this is how it was done with racist jokes (4+ / 0-)

                        In my lifetime (I'm 64), the acceptability of telling them has dramatically changed. Because people started, one by one, to object. Even if they got made fun of. Even if it didn't "do anything". Until it did.

                        Yes, there are still racists. Yes, there are circles where those jokes are still told. But today there is a wide-spread understanding that those jokes aren't funny and that the joke teller is branding himself/herself as an ass/dick/unsavory person who we'd all just rather ignore.

                        And it's made the world a better place for us all.

                        working for a world that works for everyone ...

                        by USHomeopath on Sat Jun 14, 2014 at 01:59:26 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  Racism is very much alive and well (0+ / 0-)

                          ... and it runs a lot deeper than racist jokes.  Shaming those unsophisticated enough to express it openly does little or nothing to mitigate the damage done by institutional racism which still informs nearly every aspect of our daily lives.

                          Lip service and high-fives are self-serving exercises, not solutions.

                          •  I don't disagree with your main point (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            churchylafemme, aitchdee

                            about racism running much deeper and informing nearly every aspect of our lives.

                            But if only the unsophisticated can express it openly, it does change the perception of what is normal, what is OK for lots of people. It creates a milieu that encourages us to present our better selves to others. When people do this repeatedly over time, they change. The more you act your better self, them more you become that.

                            I agree it's not a whole solution. But it's not self-serving and it's more than lip service.

                            At the very least, it lets your children grow up seeing you behave better than you otherwise might, creating more tolerance over time.

                            working for a world that works for everyone ...

                            by USHomeopath on Sat Jun 14, 2014 at 05:05:16 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Sneaky selves... (0+ / 0-)

                            aren't necessarily better.  Stealth racism is as harmful as overt racism, if not more so, and much more difficult to combat.

              •  Funny how quickly the talk grows hostile, eh? (10+ / 0-)

                And doesn't address any point made in the diary?

                •  The diary doesn't offer any real world solutions (0+ / 0-)

                  And the diarist didn’t stick around for the discussion.

                  I sing praises in the church of nonsense, but in my heart I'm still an atheist, demanding sense of all things.

                  by jbou on Fri Jun 13, 2014 at 10:26:43 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  To learn something (9+ / 0-)

                    it's not necessary to offer "real world solutions."  If you don't know what the problem is, you don't know what needs to be solved.  If you don't understand the problem, no solution will be worthwhile.

                    There is no "women's problem."  The "problem" is a problem with "men."  That's what the diarist is trying to help people understand.

                    He doesn't stick around?  Meh, maybe he should've.  Hasn't stopped discussion, has it?

                    •  I want solutions (0+ / 0-)

                      Talking about things endlessly is for philosophy class and that's why I didn't like philosophy. I want to solve the problem not sit around talking about it. If you have cancer you get it treated you don't talk about how the cancer makes you feel.

                      It's proper dailykos etiquette to stick around for the discussion portion of your diary.

                      I sing praises in the church of nonsense, but in my heart I'm still an atheist, demanding sense of all things.

                      by jbou on Fri Jun 13, 2014 at 10:44:14 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Here's your solution, in two words, easy peazy: (5+ / 0-)

                        Educate yourself.

                        Or, since you like philosophy so much, let me quote Socrates:

                        "The unexamined life is not worth living."  So, as a person of action -- start examining!

                        •  It's not about me (0+ / 0-)

                          I know what the problem is. I am taking about reaching out to the people who are the problem. I am looking for solutions not some crap about looking within or other such self help nonsense language.

                          I sing praises in the church of nonsense, but in my heart I'm still an atheist, demanding sense of all things.

                          by jbou on Fri Jun 13, 2014 at 11:01:27 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  I see (6+ / 0-)

                            So you want solutions, but nothing to do with reading, nothing to do with reflection, but something that has to do with "reaching out to" others, who are the problem.

                            And you're sure you're NOT the problem.

                            Maybe you should begin by thinking about that.  Secondly, you should talk to your male friends, those you think are part of the problem, as passionately as you are doing in this diary.  What should you talk about?  Well, do you have any ideas where to begin?

                          •  Stop lecturing me (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Sparhawk

                            Stop assuming that I need to be educated or my friends need educating.

                            I sing praises in the church of nonsense, but in my heart I'm still an atheist, demanding sense of all things.

                            by jbou on Fri Jun 13, 2014 at 11:12:06 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  I understand. (4+ / 0-)

                            You know everything, and aren't serious about discussing the issue.

                            Been fun!

                          •  No (0+ / 0-)

                            Your comments sounded like you were talking down to me.

                            I sing praises in the church of nonsense, but in my heart I'm still an atheist, demanding sense of all things.

                            by jbou on Fri Jun 13, 2014 at 11:20:18 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Here's another solution (9+ / 0-)

                            Most urban areas have organizations where men can meet with other men to talk about male violence against women.

                            If you're confident that you've got things pretty figured out, that you're part of the solution and not the problem, find out about one of these organizations and join one.  Talk to other men about how not to be violent toward women.

                            Or begin donating goods to a local women's shelter -- toothpaste, soap, clothing.  That's a positive action that will concretely help people.  You can set a model for your friends.

                          •  OK (0+ / 0-)

                            I will check and see about the meetings.

                            Seriously if you're going to talk to me don't sound so condescending.

                            I sing praises in the church of nonsense, but in my heart I'm still an atheist, demanding sense of all things.

                            by jbou on Fri Jun 13, 2014 at 11:17:41 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  I didn't mean to sound that way. (7+ / 0-)

                            Seriously, for my part, if you want something concrete to do, do some research and find out about some organizations of the sort I mentioned.  Donating stuff to shelters is always a good thing to do.  And, even if this sounds lame, call guys out if they say or do dumb shit.

                            I was in a bar once watching a baseball game.  Two guys were seated near me.  One guy says to the (female) bartender, "you on the rag, or what?"  Now, two against one -- I'm not going to confront them -- the numbers weren't in my favor.  But I did say to the bartender, loud enough to be overheard, and I said it with a bit of a snort, "People still say that?  For real?"  She rolled her eyes, she knew the score.  I'm not sure what I "accomplished."  What I hoped I accomplished is that the guy who said it felt a little stupid.

                            Baby steps are enough for me.  Again, anything irritating in my tone is unintended.

                          •  I've been volunteering at a... (0+ / 0-)

                            soup kitchen for the last twenty years and if I had money I'd give even more. I don't worry about calling people out if they need it but I'm not going to be the language police. I find that silly.

                            I sing praises in the church of nonsense, but in my heart I'm still an atheist, demanding sense of all things.

                            by jbou on Fri Jun 13, 2014 at 11:44:38 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                  •  real world solutions. maybe i mentioned this befor (0+ / 0-)

                    see my comment below for one suggestion....

                    This is a list of 76 universities for Rush Limbaugh that endorse global warming denial, racism, sexism, and GOP lies by broadcasting sports on over 170 Limbaugh radio stations.

                    by certainot on Sat Jun 14, 2014 at 08:18:27 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                  •  He made you uncomfortable enough (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    BlackSheep1

                    that you felt the need to invalidate the whole diary.

                    Which means that he accomplished exactly what he set out to do.

                    Poet e.e. cummings was asked in an interview to define poetry.  cummings replied with an old vaudevile shtick:

                    Q:  Would you hit a woman with a baby?
                    A:  No, I'd hit her with a brick.

                    You just got hit by a brick.

                    Do you clench up? Do you feel a wall between your mind and her words? Instead of shutting down, use your defense mechanisms as a map to what scares you about their pain and confront it.
                    Are you man enough to do that?

                    There are men who are man enough to do that, although some of them may not know that yet, and are still working hard to protect their power-base.  Some are changing now, re-evaluating, recognizing, re-forming themselves.

                    This IS the real-world solution.

            •  'You actually think your scorn matters' (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              jbou

              Best not devalue scorn, jbou, when its your stock-in-trade.

              •  Well (0+ / 0-)

                I don't think my scorn can change people's behaviors. I have low expectations for my scorn.

                I sing praises in the church of nonsense, but in my heart I'm still an atheist, demanding sense of all things.

                by jbou on Sat Jun 14, 2014 at 10:35:51 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Yet you persist in marketing your scorn here. (0+ / 0-)

                  Odd that.

                  You could put the same time and energy you've put into this thread, and -- just as an experiment -- put that into behaving differently when you're with a group of women-dissecting men.  I'll even give you your opening lines:

                  'Hey, guys, this bitch on the Internet double-dog dared me to do this:  The argument was about whether or not objecting to what we're doing now would change anything.  So, if when Bob said the thing about that juicy 7's ass a minute ago, if I had said something like, 'Hey, Dude, not cool', how would you guys have responded?'

                  Then sit back and listen.  The cool thing is, by approaching it this way, you can still joke your way back out of it -- 'Whew, sure glad I didn't ask that, then!'.  That and a few pussy-jokes and you're back in the club.

                  This experiment will allow you to better assess your choice to remain silent, and to urge others to do the same.

                  Double-dog dare you.

                  •  Just stop (0+ / 0-)

                    I have already done the speaking up part on race and sex. The idiots are still racist and sexist. It doesn't work. If you doubt me come join me any Monday night at the club in Northampton Massachusetts for poker. You'll can hear them tell me enough already when I scold them for being sexist or racist.

                    I sing praises in the church of nonsense, but in my heart I'm still an atheist, demanding sense of all things.

                    by jbou on Sat Jun 14, 2014 at 12:09:53 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  So your weekly poker club rules your world (0+ / 0-)

                      and has proved to you that No Change Can Happen, So Everybody Should Just Shut Up.

                      You know, this thread would have been so much better if you would have told that story up front.

                      You could have just written, 'My Monday night poker club shuts me up when I scold them about sexism, so speaking up won't work there, and I'm not about to give up my poker club.'

                      That at least would have been an accurate representation of your reality.

                      •  That's one example (0+ / 0-)

                        I play poker five nights a week and most nights it's all guys and it's the same old story but go ahead tell me what works in those situations I'm sure you have more insight then me and know what's best.

                        I sing praises in the church of nonsense, but in my heart I'm still an atheist, demanding sense of all things.

                        by jbou on Sat Jun 14, 2014 at 12:39:27 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

          •  And another thing (0+ / 0-)

            If this is about changing the paradigm then scolding people until they stop talking to you or you stop talking to them makes life easier for you but doesn't change the paradigm. It's like trying to fix  the environment by telling people not to drive in your neighborhood,  It keeps your neighborhood smog free but the rest of society is left to choke.

            I sing praises in the church of nonsense, but in my heart I'm still an atheist, demanding sense of all things.

            by jbou on Fri Jun 13, 2014 at 09:46:40 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  I think a "hey man, not cool" would (17+ / 0-)

          probably suffice.

          And he may tell you to go fuck yourself at first. But if every time he says it, somebody says "Hey man, not cool" perhaps he will begin thinking twice before talking about rape in such a manner.

          Not scolding exactly, but removing an element of permissive context for such discourse to happen. I think it can be effective, if enough people are on board.

          Then there are some people that will never change. That, of course, cannot be helped.

        •  because that's a reflex, jbou. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          CroneWit

          The training starts early for women. Consider what a privileged statement this one is:

          How can we be sexist? We let you drive and vote!
          There's an ad out that's about as subtle as a flying war axe, that all men -- yes, even the ones who are not Champion Frontline Team @h0le howlies -- need to see.

          Just because it turns the stereotypes on their heads so neatly.

          LBJ, Van Cliburn, Ike, Wendy Davis, Lady Bird, Ann Richards, Barbara Jordan, Molly Ivins, Sully Sullenburger, Drew Brees: Texas is NO Bush League!

          by BlackSheep1 on Sat Jun 14, 2014 at 10:34:45 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Right. When authority stands silent in the face (6+ / 0-)

        of abuse, it becomes complicit. Our problem is that we do not fully realize that, in a democracy, we, the people, are the authority. We have the power.  We are in charge and we have the obligation to speak up.
        It really all boils down to the word. "In the beginning was the word."
        Freedom of speech doesn't exist unless we speak.

        http://hannah.smith-family.com

        by hannah on Sat Jun 14, 2014 at 03:14:53 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  "What's in your head, man? Who put it there?" (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Chi, Ahianne, BlackSheep1

      (From the song 'Zombies'.)

      Or: "The way you're acting, you're saying she's no good- if she said yes to you, she'd be no good. Why do you think you're such a piece of shit? Who told you that?"

      That's for guys you know well enough that they'd listen. For others, "Oh shut the fuck up you big baby."

  •  Thank you for this diary (and for asking). nt (10+ / 0-)

    "You do not have to be good...You only have to let the soft animal of your body love what it loves." -Mary Oliver

    by hwy70scientist on Fri Jun 13, 2014 at 09:36:16 PM PDT

  •  I am leaving a comment (14+ / 0-)

    so I can come back an check on this when I have the capacity to deal with the content.

    I could not read through all of the paragraphs, too painful to relive the memories of the behaviors you describe and the devastating consequences to the girls and women who suffer the consequences of the thought processes, and mental and physical 'games' you describe as men seek to elevate their status among their peers, and raise their self worth.

    But later, I may find the fortitude to read all of it.  Then see how the comments go.

    I hope something positive can come of this.
    SW

  •  This jumped out at me. (15+ / 0-)

    "At the core is our need to be a “man” for other men, and a woman is a checker piece we use to play a game of status with other men."

    I'll try to simplify this and hope it will still make sense. We had been married about 5 years when I started becoming suspicious that our union had more to do with how he valued his image with other men. It had to do with my body.

    I am a photographer and I worked with some pretty fantastic single men on a huge project. I was asked to have dinner, dance, etc. and I never did because I was married and loved him.

    Down the road, after he had an affair, we divorced. Thinking back about my experiences on the road, I asked him if he had ever felt jealous about me. His answer was this, "yes, when other men looked at your breasts". Talk about a blow to the heart. That  hurt more than the infidelity.

    “Listen--are you breathing just a little, and calling it a life?” ― Mary Oliver

    by weezilgirl on Fri Jun 13, 2014 at 10:03:17 PM PDT

  •  Is this a heterosexual problem? (0+ / 0-)


    How do you tell your pet slug that you had escargot for dinner?

    by glb3 on Fri Jun 13, 2014 at 10:13:23 PM PDT

  •  The Boko Harem burn boys alive and no one notices. (0+ / 0-)

    They kidnap a bunch of girls, and the possibility exists that they might sell them into slavery... and suddenly people care that the Boko Harem is committing atrocities, against females. It's wonderful that you want to stop girls from being snatched out of schools. But do you care about the male victims of these nuts? Are they visible to you? I wonder if you know they are still killing lots and lots of men and boys?

    This video is especially disturbing. A woman attempts to rape a young boy in public, on a train. People watch and film the assault and just laugh. The comments to the post are even more unsettling. Half of them mock the boy, or declare that he was "lucky" to have been treated that way.

    It's nothing new around here. But every so often I feel the need to register my disgust at the folks who want to perpetuate Victorian attitudes about gender violence. It won't stop you from exploiting the pervasive stereotypes which exist in order to advance your agenda of promoting resentment toward men. But here I go anyway. Having a penis doesn't make one immune to sexual assault and harassment. It just means that when it happens, no one will care. Having a vagina doesn't prevent one from engaging is sexual assault or harassment, it just means that when it happens, no one will care.

    You can do whatever you want to us, but we're not going to sit here and listen to you badmouth the United States of America.

    by Eric Stratton on Fri Jun 13, 2014 at 10:24:33 PM PDT

  •  To the diarist -- (9+ / 0-)

    I'm not sure I'd agree that objectification is THE core of sexism.  You may be right, it's something I'd have to explore further with you.  But my sense is that although that's a big part of the puzzle, things are more complex.

    Stimulating diary, though.  Much needed.

    •  'From the minute you're born, they make you (4+ / 0-)

      feel small'... to me that's the core of it, this feeling implanted that one's being is not something profoundly valid but rather something insufficient, overcome only by making someone else play the weakling.

      •  Do you mean that women are made to feel small? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        CroneWit

        Or men are made to feel small and compensate by doing the same to women?

        •  Men made to feel small, compensate by doing (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          CroneWit

          the same to women and other men- school bullying and all that.

          Women made to feel small? Wow I never even thought of that... see that's why I come here, new thoughts!

          •  the whole point of "high fashion" is to idolize (5+ / 0-)

            impossibilities -- of the kind that make women less to answer to some (often twisted)  notion of desirability.

            Serena Williams is considered obese in fashion circles.

            Seven-inch heels are the norm, and one's ribs shouldn't just show but be prominent if one is to be "super-model sexy."

            Starved women crippled by ridiculous shoes: that's the 'role model."

            Those advocating it?

            NEVER have to live in those size-zero clothes or seven-inch heels.

            What does that tell us?

            LBJ, Van Cliburn, Ike, Wendy Davis, Lady Bird, Ann Richards, Barbara Jordan, Molly Ivins, Sully Sullenburger, Drew Brees: Texas is NO Bush League!

            by BlackSheep1 on Sat Jun 14, 2014 at 10:56:40 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  The author defines 'objectification' very well -- (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      USHomeopath
      If in Marxism the commodity is the basic element of capitalism, we can say that in Feminism, objectification is the core process of patriarchy. The turning of a human being into an object that is a tool for your purpose, who has no agency or feelings of her own, a woman interchangeable with other women or a thing you can destroy is the very discursive engine of patriarchy.
      In this definition, objectification of women is the 'core process' and 'discursive engine' of patriarchy, the ideology that is expressed through 'sexism'.  (Or that's my reading of it.)

      And that works for me.  At root, 'feminism' is women speaking up about  'sexism', and all male objections to 'feminism' boil down to complaints that women are objecting to their male-defined purpose.

      This root-level definition of reality-as-patriarchy and women's role as functional (as a tool) can be illustrated by the cultural ur-text of Yahweh's re-shaping of Adam's rib into the first woman, made 'to be a help meet (fit) for him' -- a manufactured instrument to meet his needs.

      The kinds of tool-functions a woman is expected to perform can vary widely, from Daddy's Best Girl to the Perfect Housekeeper to the Gorgeous Trophy Wife to the Display of Body-Parts walking past for men's sexual amusement and male-bonding use to the Target of the PUA or rapist or misogynist killer.  (I omit many other uses.)  

      The surprising thing is, with this list of uses, that any given woman on any given day may be fulfilling any or all of these uses (and others) simultaneously, without even being aware that she is being so used (until the shout on the subway or from a passing car reminds her that she is never free).

      And Rule Number One for these human tools is this:  You must never, never speak up about, or object to, the parameters of your existence as an object, a tool.

  •  The novelty of men telling men to shut up (0+ / 0-)

    ... and just listen to women has clearly not worn off.  These diaries should carry a smug alert.

  •  Too late. When I left Ann Arbor for ASEAN 9 years (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Chi, BlackSheep1

    ago, the men I worked with were sufficiently sophisticated to hide their misogyny to keep their jobs. Furthermore, they continued this evasion outside of work knowing that incidents like the recent Basketball Diaries were inevitable. So, men will now hide their support for the rape culture while doing nothing about it. A sad situation.

    I voted with my feet. Good Bye and Good Luck America!!

    by shann on Sat Jun 14, 2014 at 05:25:58 AM PDT

  •  there's a secret to it, in plain sight (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    BlackSheep1

    human civilizations have a self destructive secret that helps maintain our patriarchal power structures and helps them grow the warrior classes they depend on.

    it starves the emotions of men and associates sex with violence and violence with sex.

    organized religions like christianity maintain the secret, either by design or by default, with sexual repression and by making it taboo to talk about it.

    the koran still has it written: "man can only have sex with his wife and that which the right hand possesses."

    they rationalize that to mean slaves and captives, but it really means fingers.

    the right hand is connected to the left logical mathematical side of the brain and the left hand is connected to the right creative emotional orgasmic side of the brain.

    humans have been learning sex with the wrong hand, burning in long-lasting neural pathways that send sex energy to the wrong side. and men are more likely to use the same hand and grip as for swords and hammers.

    men starve the emotional creative side of the brain and send sex energy to the side of the brain that was supposed to be objective and patient.

    how is the numbers side of the brain satisfied? with more bigger faster which results in greed and objectification.

    how is the logical side satisfied? sex and logic are not good to mix. satisfaction comes with quick easy answers and certainty. little is certain so natural uncertainty creates fear  and the uncertainty and ambiguity that women are more comfortable with becomes frightening. the female becomes more different than she really is.

    our societies evolve to control and manage the acceptability of the behaviors that humans use to trigger release the sexual energy that's trapped on the wrong side of the brain and release it to the pleasure centers on the right side.

    triggers like violence, to open the starved emotional side so it can accept pleasing sex energy that's been building up.

      http://youtu.be/...

    This is a list of 76 universities for Rush Limbaugh that endorse global warming denial, racism, sexism, and GOP lies by broadcasting sports on over 170 Limbaugh radio stations.

    by certainot on Sat Jun 14, 2014 at 08:16:40 AM PDT

  •  **AMAZINGLY GREAT DIARY!** (3+ / 0-)

    Wow.  Wow.  You did it.  You said it all.

     . . . and your amazing, fearless word-jazz . . .

    Can't thank you enough.

  •  Anti-abortion or poor choice of words? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Silencio

    Diary wrote:

    And of course, women are killed before birth; over 90 million were aborted in India and China because parents did not want the burden of a girl.
    Does the author really want to describe abortion as killing of people ?  How does this fit with the idea that when women choose abortion, that choice is a morally valid choice?

    The most important way to protect the environment is not to have more than one child.

    by nextstep on Sat Jun 14, 2014 at 08:36:42 AM PDT

    •  Cultural devaluation of women, nextstep (0+ / 0-)

      neither anti-abortion nor poor choice of words.

      As an illustration of the world-wide cultural devaluation of women, the author introduced the fact that over 90 million girls were aborted in China and India because girls in those cultures have 'negative worth'.

      You're inventing a straw to grasp in your attempt to invalidate the author/diary.

      •  Quoted section was written as a opponent of (0+ / 0-)

        legal abortion would write,  instead of saying something like there is a cultural bias against the value of women, as shown by...

        I have never before read writings from a person who believes in legal abortion writing in terms of abortions being the killing of unborn people, however this phrasing is common with abortion opponents.

        The most important way to protect the environment is not to have more than one child.

        by nextstep on Sat Jun 14, 2014 at 02:14:11 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Very good point (4+ / 0-)

      I should have been more clear on this one. Thank you for pointing it out.

      And sometimes, when the void stood between us, we got all the way to each other - Paul Celan

      by Nicholas Powers on Sat Jun 14, 2014 at 06:50:04 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Understand your point (2+ / 0-)

      And diarist could have refined his language on that point. But, in the cases diarist is describing, its not about choosing abortion, its about gender-selection. I don't know about you, but I find the whole concept of gender selection morally repulsive.

      KOS: "Mocking partisans focusing on elections? Even less reason to be on Daily Kos."

      by fcvaguy on Sun Jun 15, 2014 at 05:09:44 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  In this case, it is definitely the killing of (0+ / 0-)

      people. Especially in China, where the government can force a woman to abort an "unauthorized" baby.

      And God said, "Let there be light"; and with a Big Bang, there was light. And God said "Ow! Ow My eyes!" and in a flash God separated light from darkness. "Whew! Now that's better. Now where was I. Oh yea . . ."

      by Pale Jenova on Sun Jun 15, 2014 at 07:38:18 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  When a group of macho men (8+ / 0-)

    are objectifying women collectively as "pussy" etc etc etc, do all men take part?

    No there are those men who are silent, who look down at the ground and shuffle their feet. But those men stay silent.

    How do I know this? Seven years as the one of the first women to ever be a member of IUOE Local 49. Seven long years of observation where I was the only woman on the crew. On one job, for example, I was out-numbered 74 to 1.

    In those seven years did any man ever speak up and confront his union brothers?

    Why, the answer to that would be yes. One man, and only one man, spoke up.

    And he did more than speak up, he went into the shack and ripped their porno pics down off the walls. And yelled at the guys for having them there.

    He was just a member, not a foreman, but the guys never put those pics back up. But, of course, the Playboy and Penthouse magazines stayed on a corner of the table.

    And in porta-potty, the drawing of a "pussy" over the urinal remained to symbolize taking a leak into the private part of woman.

    God spare me the Heart to fight them... I'll fight the Pirates forever. -Mother Jones

    by JayRaye on Sat Jun 14, 2014 at 11:23:42 AM PDT

  •  Thank you for writing this (3+ / 0-)

    I particularly liked

    The first step is incredibly simple — LISTEN! Ask the women in your life what their experience of sexism is and as they talk, just shut up. Do you clench up? Do you feel a wall between your mind and her words? Instead of shutting down, use your defense mechanisms as a map to what scares you about their pain and confront it.

    Okay, the Government says you MUST abort your child. NOW do you get it?

    by Catskill Julie on Sat Jun 14, 2014 at 05:47:16 PM PDT

  •  Probably one of the best diaries on this topic (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    churchylafemme, Wee Mama

    I've read in the past few weeks.

    As a gay man, I find the part about closeted gay men/bisexuals to be particularly true. Some of the most women-hating, trans-hating men, are seriously closeted. I have no data to point to other than my own life experience.

    KOS: "Mocking partisans focusing on elections? Even less reason to be on Daily Kos."

    by fcvaguy on Sun Jun 15, 2014 at 05:01:32 AM PDT

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