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Yesterday, Kos announced that Daily Kos would not be participating in Netroots Nation 2015 that will be held in July in Phoenix, Arizona.  Kos explained his reasoning thus

I made very clear in the wake of Arizona's passage of SB 1070 that I would not be setting foot in the state, nor spending a dime in it until the law was revoked. The law, however gutted by the courts, remains on the books, as does systemic harassment of Latinos, so my pledge still stands.
I cannot argue with this statement.  SB 1070 was gutted by the courts, but has not been revoked by the legislature.  If revocation is the standard, not actual implementation, then Kos is completely right.  And I hope he will stand by that standard for all states that have not revoked laws that were gutted by the courts (e.g., that he will honor the boycott against California until such time as the voters revoke proposition 8 that was passed by voter referendum in 2008).

All that said, I want to make one issue clear.  Kos is standing mostly alone in his boycott of Arizona.  And by this I mean that national groups and latino politicians that champion immigrant and Hispanic justice do not currently support a boycott against Arizona.

In 2010, the Arizona State Legislature passed SB 1070, a draconian anti-latino law that required the police to essentially demand citizenship papers of any person they thought "might" be undocumented.  This thinly veiled excuse for racial profiling was rapidly denounced by pretty much everyone.  Almost immediately, there were calls to boycott Arizona.  Among the key groups calling for the boycott were

Raul Grijalva (D-AZ)

"The governor and legislature are blind to what this bill will really do to citizens, law enforcement and the state economy. Tourists will not come to a state with discriminatory policies on the books. Businesses will not move here. Hispanic workers and taxpayers will leave. If state lawmakers don't realize or don't care how detrimental this will be, we need to make them understand somehow. Conventions are a large source of visitors and revenue, and targeting them is the most effective way to make this point before it's too late. Just as professional athletes refused to recognize Arizona until it recognized Martin Luther King Jr., we are calling on organizations not to schedule conventions and conferences in Arizona until it recognizes civil rights and the meaning of due process. We don't want to sustain this effort any longer than necessary. It's about sending a message."
La Raza and friends
On May 6, NCLR joined with the Asian American Justice Center (AAJC), the National Action Network (NAN), the Service Employees International Union (SEIU), the United Food and Commercial Workers (UFCW), the Leadership Conference on Civil and Human Rights, the National Puerto Rican Coalition (NPRC), and the League of United Latin American Citizens (LULAC) to announce a boycott against the state of Arizona in protest of SB 1070.  
And Sound Strike, A group of bands that agreed to not play in Arizona.

As an Arizona resident, I supported all these groups in their boycott.  I also believe it was effective.  Estimates of the economic impact of the boycott range from about $6-100 million. Several business leaders and business groups in Arizona called on the State Legislature to stop being crazed idiots (to little effect, I admit).

As would be expected, SB 1070 was challenged in the courts almost immediately.  It took some time, but eventually in April of 2011, the Ninth Circuit upheld lower court rulings which effectively gutted the law.  The State of Arizona appealed to the Supreme Court, and in June 2012 the majority pretty much upheld the 9th circuit ruling, leaving SB 1070 forever and definitively gutted and mostly unenforceable.  While I agree fully that revocation of SB 1070 would be best, and that the Arizona Legislature is filled with deranged right-wing freaks who are really and truly evil, SB 1070 is really and truly gutted.

So, what does all this have to do with the current boycotts of Arizona?  That's the thing, there really aren't any.  Between 2010 and 2012, pretty much all the individuals and organizations who called for the boycott rescinded them.

In July 2010, after preliminary court ruling against SB 1070, Raul Grijalva ended his call for a boycott.

"I am encouraging national groups to return their conventions and conferences to the state to help us change the political and economic climate."

That doesn't mean he's going to do an about-face and be the poster child for boosting tourism, however.

"I'm not going to pander," he said. "I am not going to get a list from the visitors and convention bureau and start dialing each number."

Instead, he said, he will support the efforts of groups that are publicly opposed to the law. Those who "don't have the guts to take a position on the law" shouldn't expect a hand, he said.

As for La Raza, they ended their boycott in September, 2011.

Sound Strike has never officially ended their boycott, but many of the bands who initially signed on to the boycott are now playing in Arizona.

So, after all this discussion, what is this boycott of Arizona of which you speak?  I can understand that many people may choose to avoid Arizona, it sure ain't a progressive paradise, and there really are some deranged evil people running the place.  But before everybody assumes that boycotting Arizona is a normal, progressive choice, I just want everyone to consider that Raul Grijalva and La Raza are on the other side of the issue.  That does not mean you have to agree with me, or them, only that the decision to continue boycotting Arizona is not a simple one.

You all may choose to boycott Arizona, just don't argue that you are in solidarity with ALL your latino/latina brothers and sisters--many of those brothers and sisters stopped boycotting Arizona a few years ago.  I also have no doubt that there are some latinos who continue to call for a boycott, and I in no way see that as wrong or bad.  

My only point in writing all of this is to say that the decision to boycott Arizona is not simple or obvious--unless your complaint is that "who the hell wants to go to Phoenix in July?"  It really will be hotter than a lava field in hell, no denying that one.

11:37 AM PT: I just realized I failed to link to Mother Mags far better diary on this subject.

http://www.dailykos.com/...

Originally posted to Empty Vessel on Sun Jul 20, 2014 at 11:23 AM PDT.

Also republished by Baja Arizona Kossacks and Phoenix Kossacks.

Poll

Will you continue to boycott Arizona?

56%111 votes
35%69 votes
8%17 votes

| 197 votes | Vote | Results

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Comment Preferences

  •  one difference with California and prop 8 (5+ / 0-)

    is that the behavior of state and local governments, and the majority of public opinion, appears to be in line with the court ruling. Can the same be said for Arizona?

    Gondwana has always been at war with Laurasia.

    by AaronInSanDiego on Sun Jul 20, 2014 at 11:34:55 AM PDT

  •  Sometimes, confrontation is unavoidable... (17+ / 0-)

    So, let me get this right. According to this website’s owner, the preferred methodology for—supposedly--moving the Democratic Party to the left is by participating within it; and by working for the election of Democratic candidates against their Republican opponents, in virtually all instances; and by donating to Democratic candidates, whenever possible.

    But, when it comes to immigration reform, the latest guidance from this site’s owner (who's not exactly know for avoiding confrontation) is to walk away from the fight in the state (Arizona), which includes House Progressive Caucus Co-Chair Raul Grijalva and La Rasa, where there’s the most egregious support against it? (i.e.: “not spending a cent” in the state to affect significant change until there is significant change, first. How does that work?)

    …Or, even though Yearly Kos/Netroots Nation has held two of its eight annual get-togethers in July, in brutally hot Las Vegas, the temperature in nearby Phoenix would be just too stifling for the event? (Last time I was in Las Vegas in July it was, literally, 115o in the shade.)

    …Or, even though there are many hotels and conference centers that have at least some form of union representation in Phoenix, apparently, the state’s right-to-work positions rules Phoenix out? (Having the Netroots conference in Phoenix also provides a great platform for organized labor to further organize and confront the state’s right-to-work policies.)

    …Or, even though our President is comprehensively/strongly supporting the most anti-Democratic, downright draconian, foreign trade agreements in the history of this country, and sending tens of thousands of children back to their oppressive regimes in Honduras (where they stand a good chance of being summarily murdered shortly after their forced return there due to failed U.S. drug policies in Central and South America), and other brutally oppressive countries such as Guatemala and El Salvador?

    …Or (and this is a legitimate question; even though some reading it won’t like it) are there additional issues between Markos Moulitsas and some of the leadership at Netroots Nation that have, until now, gone unmentioned in public?

    From Thursday, in Detroit...


    Netroots Nation 2015: Phoenix – July 16-19, 2015

    For Netroots Nation 2015, we’re choosing to go to Phoenix and make immigration a central issue to the progressive agenda.


    REGISTER TODAY!

    We haven’t yet won on this legislatively and we haven’t yet won with the Obama administration. We’re mindful that we’re about to launch into the 2016 presidential cycle and it’s time to step up as a movement on this issue.

    We want everyone aspiring for office in 2016 — from the President to the Senate to Congress to local elected offices – to know that if you don’t support taking real action on immigration reform, then you won’t win our community’s support.

    So next year, just as 2016 will be heating up, we’re going to push the envelope further and head into the belly of the beast and send a powerful message with not only our voices but our presence. We, as a community, don’t believe in sitting on the sidelines. We, as a community, believe in taking on the fight head on.

    Just like here in Detroit, there’s a burgeoning progressive infrastructure in Arizona that could use more support. We’ve also got a lot to discuss from a policy perspective. It’s time to start talking about how militarizing our police forces and borders is problematic, how trade agreements like NAFTA and CAFTA have created the economic conditions for the migration from Central America, and how this issue ultimately comes down to family.

    We’ll talk about all that and more in 2015. And I want all of you there with us next July 16-19.

    Make a commitment now to join us in Phoenix for Netroots Nation. Click here and reserve your ticket today.

    For more on this matter, I'd suggest a read of my post here from this past Monday: Michael Ventura: "If you want to change what is, speak of what is."

    "I always thought if you worked hard enough and tried hard enough, things would work out. I was wrong." --Katharine Graham

    by bobswern on Sun Jul 20, 2014 at 11:45:58 AM PDT

  •  Nope. (8+ / 0-)

    I think it was a rotten venue choice and I'm not going.

    Sad, really, because I had been planning to go for the first time.

    Not going to Arizona.

    by ExpatGirl on Sun Jul 20, 2014 at 11:51:48 AM PDT

  •  Please read Section 2 of SB1070 (9+ / 0-)

    Decidedly NOT gutted.

  •  My gay sister is boycotting Arizona (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    chicago minx, Smoh, Mopshell

    so I am too.

    “The answer must be, I think, that beauty and grace are performed whether or not we will or sense them. The least we can do is try to be there.” ― Annie Dillard, Pilgrim at Tinker Creek

    by 6412093 on Sun Jul 20, 2014 at 12:18:32 PM PDT

    •  Why? We have openly gay (12+ / 0-)

      Legislators and people in public and private life who call AZ home and work for the same issues people everywhere work for

      •  Tucson (4+ / 0-)

        Had the most visible and "everyday" lesbian and gay community I have ever ever been part of.

        I mean, being away from Tucson for several years now, I still miss things like seeing visibly out lesbians all over the place as a matter of course. And that adorable gay cashier who was always amused when my gf and I danced to the corny music in the grocery store and asked about it when I hadn't been able to go shopping with her due to work obligations.

        •  She figured if SB 1062 can handily pass (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Onomastic

          the legislature, and only Gov. Brewer's capricious benevolence stopped it from becoming law, there's too much hate there for her.

          “The answer must be, I think, that beauty and grace are performed whether or not we will or sense them. The least we can do is try to be there.” ― Annie Dillard, Pilgrim at Tinker Creek

          by 6412093 on Sun Jul 20, 2014 at 03:00:31 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  not really "handily" as far as I can tell (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            6412093

            That's her call, of course and she has to do it from outside the actual lived reality of the state. One bit of context is that that collectively, the AZ state legislature is very often just flat out batshit crazy on pretty much any issue you could imagine and has been that way for a very long time. The governor - Napolitano and now, sadly, Brewer - is often the only stop between BatshitCrazyLand and basic sanity on many issues. It's just kind of how it works.

            I'm really not sure how SB 1062 would have fared as a statewide initiative. The scapegoat in AZ in recent years has tended to be immigrants/migrants. The gay community hasn't been much of an effective political scapegoat like that, or at least wasn't wen I was there. And given what happened with the three GOP legislators who turned around after the fvote (having seen the writing on the wall from the business community, presumably) and urged Brewer to veto, I suspect it would not have passed as a public initiative.

            3 GOP senators who voted for SB 1062 asking Brewer to veto bill

            Excerpts:

            Pierce and Worsley said the bill was moved along very quickly, not giving them enough time to convince fellow lawmakers to vote against it. Besides, Pierce said, they didn’t want to “tear apart” the GOP caucus, which was sharply divided last year over Brewer’s push for Medicaid expansion.

            But the reaction from constituents to the business community reinforced their discomfort with their “yes” votes, they said, leading to the call for a veto.

            and
            Worsley noted the bill made a fairly minor tweak to the state’s existing statute protecting religious freedom, and said that was more reason to question why the bill was needed.

            He said he asked Senate President Andy Biggs, R-Gilbert, over the weekend to allow the Senate to reconsider last week’s vote, but Biggs declined. If such a vote were to happen, it would fail, since the three Republicans would join with the 13 Democrats to vote it down.

            And another piece on one of the three is here:

            Arizona GOP State Senator Regrets Voting For Anti-Gay SB 1062: 'I Screwed Up'

            ----------------------------

            So while it's her call, I do wonder if your sister knows anything real and grounded about the actual lived experiences of actual lesbians living in Arizona  - or if she's just imagining what it's like from afar based on extrapolation from very limited and limiting information. I mean, it's probably accurate that there's "too much hate" against us among the state legislature - or maybe not so much hate as again, simply just batshit craziness. But I myself have never felt physically safer as a lesbian than I did during my years in Tucson AZ. There seemed to be visible out members of our community all over the place (in my workplace, part the local migrant rights movement I was part of, in the streets just around, in the grocery store etc etc) and I really miss that now, living in supposedly magically pro-gay WA state.

            •  She (along with me and two other sisters) (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Michellebird

              visited our mom in Tempe for two weeks every year for the last twenty years.  

              So we've seen Fife the felon, and "Pickaninnie" Mecham as governors, before Brewer.

              And we've followed the antics of Sheriff Joe.

              Please don't misunderstand. She never had any problems with any folks in Arizona, but passage of that darned don't-serve-gays law angered her, whether or not it was vetoed.

              The "check your papers" law didn't help, either.

              So we decided to hold our family get-togethers outside Arizona.

              The 116 degree days were a factor, too.

              “The answer must be, I think, that beauty and grace are performed whether or not we will or sense them. The least we can do is try to be there.” ― Annie Dillard, Pilgrim at Tinker Creek

              by 6412093 on Sun Jul 20, 2014 at 10:28:25 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

  •  Are we beating a dead horse? (15+ / 0-)

    A majority of people here are OK with Kos's decision. We, Arizonans, of course, feel slighted and somewhat defeated.

    Let's forget about this, lick our wounds and rise up.
    Our focus should be working relentlessly, until we fall down from exhaustion, to elect Fred DuVal, Felicia Rottelini, and Davis Garcia.
    Let's stop wasting our breath on meta, and work like hell to drag our state out of the nasty hole its been in for the last decade or more.

    It is ridiculous to pretend that firing teachers based on student test scores, starting charter schools, giving out vouchers or implementing merit pay will overcome the challenges facing a child living in poverty. -Jersey Jazzman

    by Desert Rose on Sun Jul 20, 2014 at 12:19:47 PM PDT

    •  I don't understand how this one particularly (6+ / 0-)

      odious law is something upon which Kos and others feel obliged to make a principled stand, when there are many odious laws around the nation, including those in Michigan.

      Michigan has a gawd-awful governor, "emergency administrator" legislation, a dictator sitting in power in Detroit, and an abusive government which cuts off water to citizens who owe $150, but not to corporations who owe thousands upon thousands.

      I just don't understand the difference.  Arizona's law is obviously aimed at immigrants and Latinos.  Michigan's laws are obviously aimed at minorities and the economically disadvantaged, over corporations.

      Is there a moral difference which I cannot perceive?

      In spite of the severely anti- (small "d") democratic environment in Detroit, Kos, Armando, and all the rest were perfectly happy to party it up there.

      What's the difference in Arizona?  Did NN go out of their way to help the downtrodden in Detroit?  Well, if the  march/protest does any good, we'll eventually know, I guess.

      Wouldn't NN in Arizona provide equal opportunities to highlight injustices in Arizona law, just as (supposedly) NN in Detroit allowed the highlighting of injustices in Michigan law?

      Hmmm.... have we really seen much from front pagers on the injustice of the emergency manager laws in the last couple of weeks?  Maybe there's more to be done.

      Maybe none of it is about actual injustice. It's just about when injustice hits home.  Some people are allowed one-issue stances, while others are told to shut up and get with the program or get the fuck out.

      Honestly, the proprietor has become a parody of himself. He needs to respect other people having their own priority issues just as much as he asks people to understand his one, and apparently only one, red line issue.

      Frankly, none of it makes sense to me.  I would have held NN in Kansas City. ha!

      "The law is meant to be my servant and not my master, still less my torturer and my murderer." -- James Baldwin. July 11, 1966.

      by YucatanMan on Sun Jul 20, 2014 at 02:13:55 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  To be truthful, why should be even have it (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        YucatanMan, ItsaMathJoke

        in this country, when the House of Representatives does something every day to screw us?

        It is ridiculous to pretend that firing teachers based on student test scores, starting charter schools, giving out vouchers or implementing merit pay will overcome the challenges facing a child living in poverty. -Jersey Jazzman

        by Desert Rose on Sun Jul 20, 2014 at 02:35:39 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  can't type: Why should we even have it.... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          YucatanMan

          It is ridiculous to pretend that firing teachers based on student test scores, starting charter schools, giving out vouchers or implementing merit pay will overcome the challenges facing a child living in poverty. -Jersey Jazzman

          by Desert Rose on Sun Jul 20, 2014 at 02:36:50 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  My main concern at this point (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Adam B

      is that a lot of kossacks will sit out NN15 just because of Kos' decision. Kos decided that there would be no official DK presence, but that doesn't mean that individuals who are members here shouldn't make their own decisions.

      I think it's worthwhile to remind people of the info in the various diaries about this subject, if only to encourage them to consider all sides. Let's not have the kind of kneejerk reaction that we decry on the other side of the aisle.

      "The American people are so used to being told they have freedom and democracy that they've forgotten to check to see if it's still true.." -Commenter on Facebook

      by Arenosa on Sun Jul 20, 2014 at 08:16:48 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Of course we will (6+ / 0-)

    And we will welcome Netroots and participate with or without kos. His loss.

  •  I've already made my position known (36+ / 0-)

    I will be attending NN15, and my AZ friends here have nothing but my full-throated and relentless support.

    That being said, something equally important has been exposed on this site: the marginalization that happens to the red state citizens here.

    Most people don't realize that in most instances the urban areas of red states are blue and years ahead of the rural areas. Boise is nothing like Burley, ID. SLC is nothing like Logan, UT.

    And this is especially true in the downtown metropolitan areas.

    However, in the rural areas most people aren't as bigoted and conservative as the voting bloc would have you believe. I'm in southern Idaho where democrats have nearly zero visibility, but where they COULD wage strong campaigns if the tried. But the party won't bring a fight here.

    I'm in the trenches these days, in an area where republicans run unopposed for state offices but where a democrat could win if they honestly tried. So it's easy for people here to visualize a conservative hellhole and honestly, some days I feel the same way about this place.

    But I've spent two years here changing hearts and minds. That is work, and that's exactly where work has to be done.

    I spent a lot of time here in a deep depression wanting to run back to the deep blue comfort of district 19 but I don't need to work in a safely blue district. My work HAS to be in the red zones, so I've decided to stay and FIGHT.

    So before any one of you in solid blue states attack a red state, ask yourself this: who really needs your support? The people of Seattle or the people of Twin Falls, ID? Because those of us in these places that you so freely mock have to do a metric ton more work on a daily basis than you do.

    We don't need to come here to be offended based on our location. It's unhelpful to the cause, to say the least.

    P.S. I am not a crackpot.

    by BoiseBlue on Sun Jul 20, 2014 at 12:46:36 PM PDT

    •  Thanks, I wonder what Armando finds so difficult (7+ / 0-)

      to understand about that.......I'ma gonna link ya......

      Vaya con Dios Don Alejo
      I want to die a slave to principles. Not to men.
      Emiliano Zapata

      by buddabelly on Sun Jul 20, 2014 at 01:43:28 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  and as far as I understand, the same is true (6+ / 0-)

      sort of in reverse in supposedly blue states

      Most people don't realize that in most instances the urban areas of red states are blue and years ahead of the rural areas. Boise is nothing like Burley, ID. SLC is nothing like Logan, UT.
      Makes sense. I mean, Tucson is quite blue.

      And probably similar patterns in blue states: It's my understanding that Eastern WA is quite red but keeps getting outvoted by the blue behemoth that is the Puget Sound area.

      Reality is complex.

    •  Hi BB! (5+ / 0-)

      I was just thinking of you today and realized I've missed seeing you.

      BTW, I'm so with you on this issue. I hope to go and hope to see many of my Kossack friends. We who live in red states need support and recognition, this shit ain't easy.

      It's so different for people who live surrounded by blue, IMO.

      Some humans ain't human some people ain't kind. They lie through their teeth with their head up their behind. You open up their hearts and here's what you'll find - Some humans ain't human some people ain't kind. John Prine

      by high uintas on Sun Jul 20, 2014 at 04:06:01 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Look, it's pretty simple. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Bluesee

      If you live in a red state (and you cannot leave) do your best to protest existing conditions and evoke change. But in no way does it ever make sense to go out of one's way to visit a red state and support its economy on the basis that you're actually helping anything. You don't reward ass-backward states by traveling there and spending money. And in what world would a bunch of non-Arizona lefties entering the state intent on protesting actually help move the progressive ball forward? Nobody likes outside agitators.

    •  rural areas (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      BoiseBlue, buddabelly

      It's true.  I'm as far to the left as they come in rural Indiana I find many people who are open minded and not nearly as "bigoted and conservative as the voting bloc would have you believe".   Not even as religious-right as you would believe.  I know the same to be true of my relatives and friends in south central Idaho.   Mostly what I find is people who are as sick of the Republicans as most of us are, and for the same reasons.  But they keep voting for them because the Democrats aren't giving them any alternatives.  Why do you think the Koch bros. have started their small town campaigning?  And you can see how well that (didn't) go over in Iowa where there were actual Democrats in office already.  

      I can't for the life of me figure out why the Democrats think it's a good idea to walk away from, or just ignore these places as a lost cause.

  •  Are people safe there? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    True North, Heart of the Rockies

    That would be a deciding factor for me: Are people attending the conference, especially those who have darker skin and/or a Spanish accent (or actually speaking Spanish), likely to be safe from getting harassed, or or even arrested on suspicion of being undocumented?

    There was a time when international AIDS organizations would not meet in the US, because of Border Patrol policies that threatened any HIV-infected person -- and therefore (in that era) any man who looked gay (whatever that meant, but profiling was in full swing) -- with harassment and possible exclusion from the US.  

  •  "filled with deranged right-wing freaks... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Tunk
    ...and that the Arizona Legislature is filled with deranged right-wing freaks who are really and truly evil...
    Ahhhh, that's a good enough reason for me to boycott AZ.
  •  Some here may not understand... (7+ / 0-)

    But to many Hispanic this is personal. Our boycotts are personal and come not from some organizational zeal consistent with views of LULAC or La Raza, but rather from a deep personal feeling of hurt and indignation. That's the context in which I weigh Kos' boycott.  

    “I’m able to fly, do what I want, essentially. I guess that’s what freedom is — no limits.” Marybeth Onyeukwu -- Brooklyn DREAMer.

    by chuco35 on Sun Jul 20, 2014 at 02:01:32 PM PDT

    •  And that's fine (4+ / 0-)

      I only wrote this diary because I believe that many here thought the boycott's were still in place--that the hispanic position was fairly uniform.

      "Empty vessels make the loudest sound, they have the least wit and are the greatest blabbers" Plato

      by Empty Vessel on Sun Jul 20, 2014 at 02:11:56 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  The boycotts you write about (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        chiniqua, pasadena beggar

        May not be in place. But there ain't too many Spanish speakers or their families looking to vacation or do business in Arizona because of its codified hatred of Mexicans. That's a lot more powerful, as shown by what's going on with your diary and what looks like a possible melt down for NN next year, than dropping some talking points from a Ford Foundation funded Latino organization, or a politician backing off after looking over his shoulder.

        “I’m able to fly, do what I want, essentially. I guess that’s what freedom is — no limits.” Marybeth Onyeukwu -- Brooklyn DREAMer.

        by chuco35 on Sun Jul 20, 2014 at 02:20:33 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  As a Hispanic I took "Papers Please" (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Bongobanger, blugrlnrdst, Adam B

      as a personal upfront to my person-hood. So yes, I totally understand where Kos, and others who agree with him, are coming from. But like Empty Vessel said, the call for boycott was ended by the organizations who originally asked for it to begin with.

      The progressive community of Arizona has stood up and is willing to fight for the things we believe in, and they deserve our support. I think it is a damn shame that some of us here are willing to turn our backs toward fellow progressives who are in need of our support. They in Arizona who truly need it in this moment, and in this struggle.

      Thousands rallied against the law in the streets of Phoenix when it was originally passed. They asked us to boycott and we did. Now they are asking for our help and we are not going to give it?

      We need to march in solidarity if we ever hope to accomplish anything. The challenges we face are too numerous, and too well organized for us to be bickering.

      Arizona is turning purple because of pure demographics. Why should we expect them to listen to us, and vote for our interests, if we are to ignore them now?

  •  I have what I hope is a constructive idea for (7+ / 0-)

    anyone boycotting the convention, including DK/Markos:

    Calculate the money you would have spent on the convention/at the convention, include the money you would have spent on the extra day or two you might have slipped in for R & R, and donate it to either progressive organizations of your choice doing important work on the ground in AZ or directly to an individual you identify who is willing to do direct work on the ground in AZ.

    Via the power of this community, we can identify:

    1) organizations that will make good use of your funds

    2) individuals who are already on the ground or would be willing to travel to AZ in order to bring their expertise, services, etc. to the progressive community in AZ.

    AZ kossacks can certainly help highlight appropriate local targets for your support.  The rest of this community can help identify non-locals whose skills, talents, time would benefit the progressive cause in AZ.  Examples could be consultants, campaign volunteers, etc.

    I trust you get the picture.  It's not a complicated idea and it can implemented person-by-person or on a larger scale.  

    Thanks!

    Why did Desiline Victor have to stand in line longer to vote in Florida than it takes to buy a gun in the USA?

    by mindoca on Sun Jul 20, 2014 at 02:37:12 PM PDT

    •  I'm not going, and (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mindoca, Empty Vessel, Onomastic

      I think this is a really fine idea. I'd be happy to do it. You should write it up as a diary, ask the AZ Kossacks to contribute any info about organizations they consider worthy via comments. And it would be nice if it could attract Markos' attention.

      I think having people like me making this sort of contribution (which would a be a pretty good chunk of change) might go a long way towards making up for our four days' absence, not to mention the tax revenue that won't be flowing into the state's coffers, but rather where we'd most like it to go.

      PS - check your kosmail.

      "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself."........ "The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." (yeah, same guy.)

      by sidnora on Sun Jul 20, 2014 at 03:19:00 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I posted in a few diaries and (4+ / 0-)

        Armando picked it up in his and asked if I minded if he shared the idea with Markos.  Here's the link to the beginning of the thread:  

        http://www.dailykos.com/...

        Maybe you could scoot over there and re-post your comment, which would be a lovely addition to the conversation.  

        And, yes, I will check my kosmail.  

        Hugs to you and George.

        Why did Desiline Victor have to stand in line longer to vote in Florida than it takes to buy a gun in the USA?

        by mindoca on Sun Jul 20, 2014 at 03:30:11 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Thanks, dear, I will hug him for you. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          mindoca

          Not sure why I ended up in this diary first, because I saw Armando's, and he's a must-read for me. Going there now, comment copied & ready to go.

          "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself."........ "The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." (yeah, same guy.)

          by sidnora on Sun Jul 20, 2014 at 03:56:51 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  wouldnt next year be uber important w/this sites (0+ / 0-)

    influence for the presidential primary? Honestly the primary is were we can effect real change and we will be a non attendee at NN?

    •  It's a fun shindig and there may be (0+ / 0-)

      some important organizing going on, but let's not get carried away. The site of NN, wherever it is, is not "uber important" in terms of impact on the presidential election.

      •  w/this sites-- meaning Dailykos Blog not a city (0+ / 0-)

        sorry for the lousy wording.   Seems NN during a presidential primary is pretty important for this blog and members to be able to influence candidates during a primary and raises awareness of the blog if they get national attention, for which Hillary garnered with her declining to pledge not to take lobbyist contributions in 2006(?).  

  •  Why not Tucson? (0+ / 0-)

    Tucson is a liberal community. Lively arts scene. Great restaurants. Mulit-cultural vibe. A lot of support for cutting the ties with Phoenix and becoming a separate state. Brand new modern streetcar project just opening. Big University. Lots of motels. Lots of resorts. Not as hot as Phoenix. Large Hispanic population. Sheriff and many leaders of the community are of Hispanic heritage. I'm not sure how many people NN draws, but there is a decent convention center here.

    If you want to protest Arizona, just stay away from Phoenix which is the nexus of the dry hate...

    There are only two types of Republicans: 1) racists; and 2) people who are willing to be associated with racists.

    by hillbrook green on Sun Jul 20, 2014 at 03:08:50 PM PDT

    •  Why do people keep suggesting alternative (0+ / 0-)

      cities in AZ? What is with this meme that it's got to be Arizona? There are hundreds of cities that are NOT in Arizona. Those are the cities from which suggestions should emanate.

      •  Gee, I'm sorry (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        kansaster, dicentra

        I didn't realize this game had strict rules.

        There are only two types of Republicans: 1) racists; and 2) people who are willing to be associated with racists.

        by hillbrook green on Sun Jul 20, 2014 at 04:24:41 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  There are basic rules. (0+ / 0-)

          The entire debate is over the decision to hold the conference in Arizona. So suggesting as a compromise moving the venue to a different AZ city is just sort of silly. As is this entire conversation, diary, meme, everything. It's totally meaningless where a few hundred liberals hold some convention next year. It's just an excuse for us to argue about something, while there's no election going on at the moment. We're scrimmaging, getting ready for the real game.

  •  Estamos unidos con Markos. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Actbriniel

    No vamos al hogar de los Arpaioistas!

  •  I wouldn't boycott Arizona (or any part of the US) (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    dicentra

    OTOH, I won't be going there any time soon.

  •  Here's my question-- (0+ / 0-)

    Are there many Latino owned small businesses in Phoenix that can be patronized for all our Netroots Nations needs such as food, drink, party places, swag, etc etc etc?

    Because if I go, I want my money to go to them.

    "You can't fix stupid" --Ron White -6.00, -5.18

    by zenbassoon on Sun Jul 20, 2014 at 10:36:16 PM PDT

  •  I used to travel (for business) but now don't (0+ / 0-)

    but if I did, there are several states in which I would not set foot/ spend money, even on behalf of my employer or someone else that would be paying my way. And I would totally be willing to lose my job to make my point if that were the case.

    AZ is one of them , the states that fall under my personal scrutiny; (FL is another, for various reasons, and Oh how that hurts/limits me, as Miami is the gateway to S. America/the Carib/elsewhere), until they repeal the stain on our/their collective state identity/conscience.

    In point of fact, I'm not real comfortable even in my own current state, Ohio - where I'm kinda a tiny blue dot in a red sea - so that's no reflection on liberals isolated in the state of AZ, or elsewhere.  Trust me, I feel for you.

    As the putatively "white" mother of a brown child (now grown), and a member of an extended multi-cultural, multi-racial, multi-national, multi-lingual, multipan- and non- theistic family, I have to stand with everyone who is subject to this kind of institutionalised racism and profiling.  

    Meanwhile, painfully aware that, because I can do the chameleon thing, I can take off my obvious poor-ness costume with a simple change of of clothes (& maybe a good vocabulary, plus or minus some accessories, like fancy cars) and be invisible/acceptable - because I look "white." My unacceptableness is totally reversible. Not so, for others.

    I'm totally aware that Latinos in AZ asked to have the boycott nationally lifted, several years ago, because of how that might affect local Latinos. Valid point. However, IMO, not relevant  to this issue, as Kos has made it abundantly clear. It's personal.

    I stand with Kos (Markos).

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