Skip to main content

Originally posted at Eclectablog.

Last Friday, a crowd of over 1,000 protesters, bolstered by hundreds and hundreds of Netroots Nations attendees, filled the streets of downtown Detroit. An event that would likely have seen scant national coverage became a huge media story with reporting by the New York Times, MSNBC, the Wall Street Journal, Democracy Now!, the Los Angeles Times, and countless others. The attention the protest march and rally received, including a surprise main stage speech by actor and activist Mark Ruffalo, helped propel the plight of Detroit residents to the national stage in a way that it never would have without the presence of the Netroots Nation conference and the outpouring of support from those who attended.

During the conference, the staff of Netroots Nation announced that the conference will be held in Phoenix, Arizona next year. Like they did in Detroit, Netroots Nation wants to make a difference in Arizona where immigration issues are in the forefront. Arizona activists immediately rejoiced, excited about the prospect of their daily battles being aided by the influx of progressive energy that the conference brings with it.

Despite this, Markos posted a piece the next morning before the conference had even ended declaring Daily Kos will NOT be attending:

I made very clear in the wake of Arizona's passage of SB 1070 that I would not be setting foot in the state, nor spending a dime in it until the law was revoked. The law, however gutted by the courts, remains on the books, as does systemic harassment of Latinos, so my pledge still stands.
Markos believes that Latinos will be in danger of being arrested in Phoenix. While this seems like a very remote possibility to me, I understand and respect his decision.

I, however, WILL be there.

Why? Because I have seen the power Netroots Nation brings to the progressive fights that are being waged in the states where the conference lands. Having served on the host committee for the conference this year, I know that the staff of Netroots Nation is intent on using the power of their conference to help causes and, starting with Detroit, they are choosing their locations specifically so that they can have that impact.

During a panel about Emergency Management in Michigan, Detroit activist and chair of the Michigan Welfare Rights Organization Maureen Taylor thanked Netroots Nation and the attendees for coming to Detroit to shine a light on their fight. Later, during a keynote presentation on the Detroit water shutoff situation, she told the audience that, thanks to the massive protest, her group had finally gotten a meeting with Detroit Mayor Mike Duggan.

Yesterday morning we learned that the Detroit Water & Sewerage Department has imposed a 15-day moratorium on further shutoffs.

Given these tangible results, you can easily understand why Detroit activists are so thrilled Netroots Nation came to their beleaguered city.

Similarly, Arizona activists are thrilled at the prospect. Here's Mother Mags, a noted Arizona activist, on Daily Kos:

Let's clear up one thing: Phoenix ain't Arizona! It's not even Maricopa County. Sheriff Joe Arpaio would never win an election if it were up to Phoenix, Tempe or Scottsdale, and SB 1070 would never pass. Sure, we have homegrown nutballs, but it's mostly old farts escaping cold winters, who settle in places like Sun City, that keep that asshat in office, and who turn our legislature a crazy-ass shade of red. [...]

I get it, but the piling on of hatred toward Arizona in some of the comments last night was disheartening. "It's not safe for brown people to walk around." Sheesh, in many places it's mostly brown people walking around! Yes, Arpaio is still on the job, but he's been neutered by recent court rulings and, trust me, there's a young crop of Latino leaders and other progressives on the horizon, and the rest of SB 1070 will be gutted.

If you wanna talk about principle, go for it, but don't paint an entire state with a brush that's been dipped in misinformation and stereotype.

If a shitty law was sufficient for not going to a city with a progressive conference, Netroots Nation would never have been in Detroit. We have a requirement for RAPE INSURANCE for crying out loud! We are a right to work for less state. On nearly every progressive issue you can name Michigan has a law that goes against everything we as liberals believe in.

Markos has said that he "won't spend a dime on a state that has codified overt racism". If "codified racism" is a show-stopper for you, look no further than Michigan with its racist, anti-democratic Emergency Manager law:


Image courtesy of The Rachel Maddow Show, used with permission

I respect those who decide not to go. My concern is that there are those won't reciprocate that respect for those of us who will attend. I have heard someone say that the decision to go or not go will "separate the wheat from the chaff". It is my sincere hope that this attitude is held by a very tiny minority because we all make personal decisions in these matters and very reasonable people can disagree.

My decision to attend does not make me "chaff".

Markos himself echoed this hope in a follow-up post yesterday afternoon:

I don't care if you go or don't go. I won't think better or worse about you regardless of what decision you make. But organizationally, I won't spend a dime on a state that has codified overt racism. If you disagree, that's fine! If you agree, that's fine! You get to make that call.

What WILL make me think less of you is if you outright disregard the real fears and anger that SB 1070 generates among people of color. I can concede that there are two genuine sides to this issue, that both the arguments for and against attending are valid, and that we can make our own choices on the matter and not be "wrong". Don't be a pompous ass to people of color and sympathizers on an issue that cuts so deeply and emotionally, because really, just don't.

On the other hand, don't be an asshole to those who want to attend, because there are valid reasons for doing so as well.

While I disagree with Markos on much of his rhetoric on this issue, we are in agreement on this. We can not -- MUST not -- allow this to divide us as a movement. We're bigger than that.

And, despite my personal abhorrence for hot, dry weather - Phoenix in July, YIKES! - I will stand shoulder to shoulder with local activists with sweat pouring down my bald head to support whatever action they engage in during the conference just like the Netroots Nation community did for us here in Michigan while they were in Detroit.

I hope you'll join me.

Two final things: It has been suggested that I am implying that the march and rally would have been nothing without the involvement of Netroots Nation participants. Let me be clear about this: NOTHING could be further from the truth. I have nothing but huge respect for the fierce warriors of Moratorium NOW!, DemocracyMovement.us, the Detroit Water Brigade, and the other hard working activists of Detroit. Netroots Nation's involvement brought additional attention to their effort and participated as allies during their visit. I have and will continue to support the work of these groups because they are heroes in this fight. I connected with many of them during the conference to help in that effort.

Also, we have an extensive photoblog of the conference up at Eclectablog HERE.

Photos by Anne C. Savage, special to Eclectablog

Originally posted to Eclectablog - eclectic blogging for a better tomorrow on Tue Jul 22, 2014 at 05:17 AM PDT.

Also republished by Motor City Kossacks, State & Local ACTION Group, Michigan, My Michigan, Baja Arizona Kossacks, and Hellraisers Journal.

EMAIL TO A FRIEND X
Your Email has been sent.
You must add at least one tag to this diary before publishing it.

Add keywords that describe this diary. Separate multiple keywords with commas.
Tagging tips - Search For Tags - Browse For Tags

?

More Tagging tips:

A tag is a way to search for this diary. If someone is searching for "Barack Obama," is this a diary they'd be trying to find?

Use a person's full name, without any title. Senator Obama may become President Obama, and Michelle Obama might run for office.

If your diary covers an election or elected official, use election tags, which are generally the state abbreviation followed by the office. CA-01 is the first district House seat. CA-Sen covers both senate races. NY-GOV covers the New York governor's race.

Tags do not compound: that is, "education reform" is a completely different tag from "education". A tag like "reform" alone is probably not meaningful.

Consider if one or more of these tags fits your diary: Civil Rights, Community, Congress, Culture, Economy, Education, Elections, Energy, Environment, Health Care, International, Labor, Law, Media, Meta, National Security, Science, Transportation, or White House. If your diary is specific to a state, consider adding the state (California, Texas, etc). Keep in mind, though, that there are many wonderful and important diaries that don't fit in any of these tags. Don't worry if yours doesn't.

You can add a private note to this diary when hotlisting it:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from your hotlist?
Are you sure you want to remove your recommendation? You can only recommend a diary once, so you will not be able to re-recommend it afterwards.
Rescue this diary, and add a note:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from Rescue?
Choose where to republish this diary. The diary will be added to the queue for that group. Publish it from the queue to make it appear.

You must be a member of a group to use this feature.

Add a quick update to your diary without changing the diary itself:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary?
(The diary will be removed from the site and returned to your drafts for further editing.)
(The diary will be removed.)
Are you sure you want to save these changes to the published diary?

Comment Preferences

  •  Great that NN helped shine a light on Detroit (36+ / 0-)

    And you make an excellent case for carrying the cause to Arizona. I hope that all of us who decide not to go, and that includes me, unless something big comes up to change my mind, can respect your choice to go.

    Arizonans are being hit by cheap shot stereotypes I so frequently see about southern states. Everyone who claims to be progressive should know that stereotypes impede progress.

    “Industry does everything they can and gets away with it almost all the time, whether it’s the coal industry, not the subject of this hearing, or water or whatever. They will cut corners, and they will get away with it. " Sen. Jay Rockefeller, D, WVa

    by FishOutofWater on Tue Jul 22, 2014 at 05:46:00 AM PDT

    •  Spot on. (5+ / 0-)

      Thanks for highlighting another problem with Markos' rationale behind his decision to not promote and withhold DKos resources from the event...it's personal to him, but he's imposing his personal issue on the wider community.

      Hell, what state doesn't have issues that trip over some progressive hot button issue? He knows that he's being inconsistent in his reasoning, I think.

      I mean, I understand withholding support if Netroots has become mainly "a three-day networking and party scene," but that wasn't part of Markos' original rationale for making that decision.

      "Believe nothing, no matter where you read it or who has said it, even if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense."

      by grape crush on Tue Jul 22, 2014 at 06:51:04 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Didn't mean that as a response to you. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        davidincleveland, Eclectablog

        Still, I like your comment.

        "Believe nothing, no matter where you read it or who has said it, even if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense."

        by grape crush on Tue Jul 22, 2014 at 06:52:43 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  This post is really unfortunate after you just (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Eclectablog, jfromga, Vico

        got done reading a respectful, thoughtful diary on this issue.

        Why not just respect Markos decision?  He's not imposing anything on anyone.  He's made his decision and spelled out his reasons.  That's not imposing anything.  

        And why label his decision as "inconsistent"?  He had his reasons; he's spelled them out.  You not agreeing with those reasons doesn't make them inconsistent.  Hell, every decision has its pros and cons or no decision would have to be made.  If everything was so almighty clear cut, it would be a foregone conclusion.

        I'd have thought the digs being made would be by those opposed to NN being in Phoenix; however, I'm seeing more personal attacks being made by those who support the decision for it to be there.

        •  I think you have it wrong. (4+ / 0-)

          Why not just respect Markos decision?

          I do, as a personal decision not to go to Arizona next year. As I've stated here and here. Specifically,

          I support the personal decision not to go to Arizona in 2015 but not the withholding of resources needed to make a Netroots gathering a success.
          He's not imposing anything on anyone.

          I don't know how you can say that; DailyKos is one of the main venues for communicating Netroots information and building interest in the event.

          And why label his decision as "inconsistent"?

          Because it is.

          My disagreement is based on Markos' inconsistent application of principle. That inconsistency exists, whether someone agrees with the decision or not.

          Markos was fine with coming to Michigan, despite its issues with race, same-sex marriage, and union-breaking legislation. Arizona has some of the same issues, but because one of them is something that's personal, NN15 is a no-go.

          Inconsistent.

          ...every decision has its pros and cons or no decision would have to be made.

          Choosing not to decide is still making a choice. Just sayin'.

          ...however, I'm seeing more personal attacks being made by those who support the decision for it to be there.

          It's unfortunate that you are mischaracterizing my disagreement as an attack on anything or anyone but the reasoning behind one person's decision to withhold support NN15 being in Arizona.

          If you are actually seeing more personal attacks, please re-read this diary, particularly the "separate the wheat from the chaff" section. Or re-read your own comment, which is in itself a (mild) personal attack.

          "Believe nothing, no matter where you read it or who has said it, even if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense."

          by grape crush on Tue Jul 22, 2014 at 08:51:03 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  You have it so wrong. First, I'm sorry, but (0+ / 0-)

            you don't get to say "Markos is imposing because I say Markos is imposing." A response of "I don't know how you can't agree with me is no response.  Yes, this is a main venue for communicating information.  So what?  He didn't say that information couldn't continue to be communicated.  He's simply saying he's not going.  And I'm sorry, but he has no obligation to provide that venue if he so chooses.  Not doing what you want him to do is not imposing anything on you.  You've got it backwards.  You're wanting to impose an obligation on him.

            Again, your version of inconsistency is not his.  He's made it clear what his basis is - SB1070.  Something that Michigan does not have.  And something that makes him feel personally threatened.  And it's simply not your job to decide whether someone else's rationale is consistent.  That is so arrogant and rude, it's indescribable.

            And who said anything about not deciding?  You pulled that right out of your hat - or somewhere on the other end.  

            I have absolutely no problem with this diary.  Unfortunately, many other - such as yourself - have not been nearly as polite or considerate.

            As far as your exceedingly thin skin to take my expression of disappointment in your failure to follow the spirit of the diary as a personal attack on you, I'm sorry, I just don't know what to say.  I'm afraid you'll just have to deal with the trauma caused by such viciousness.

            •  /sigh (0+ / 0-)

              "I'm sorry, but you don't get to say "Markos is imposing because I say Markos is imposing."

              a) Dunno why you believe you are the person who decides what people "get to say." That's a poor attempt at engaging in dialogue or an obvious attempt to squelch an opposing viewpoint.

              b)  A decision that affects the entire community was made for personal reasons; i.e, was imposed upon the larger community.

              c) Stop apologizing when you don't really mean to do so or it's not necessary.

              Yes, this is a main venue for communicating information.  So what?

              The next Netroots conference will likely suffer without the support ("Daily Kos will skip the 2015 edition of the conference, as well as promotional and fundraising efforts leading up to it") of the largest liberal forum in the U.S.

              He didn't say that information couldn't continue to be communicated.

              Technically true, but the lack of promotion means less information readily available to be communicated. You don't seem to be disputing the 'building interest' part, so I'll take it that you agree with that as well as my assertion that the decision affects the larger community.

              ...he has no obligation to provide that venue if he so chooses.

              Yep, although I believe the choice to do so is a poor one...and I've done more than enough explaining as to why I believe that.

              Disagree with me? Fine. It's good to have a space like this where people can disagree without engendering hard feelings among fellow travelers.

              You're wanting to impose an obligation on him.

              Markos imposed that obligation on himself by becoming - intentionally or unintentionally - some sort of liberal standard-bearer and establishing a community much larger than himself.

              "Not [your] job." "Arrogant and rude...to decide whether someone else's rationale is consistent."

              Most of the diaries and many of the comments on this site do exactly that 'job' of examining other people's rationale for making the choices they make. Hell, most blogs and opinion columns do exactly that 'job'.

              Saying that you disagree with someone and laying out the reasons why you disagree isn't 'arrogant' or 'rude'. Dissent is necessary.

              "Believe nothing, no matter where you read it or who has said it, even if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense."

              by grape crush on Tue Jul 22, 2014 at 09:01:28 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  /sigh, part deux (0+ / 0-)

              Something that Michigan does not have.

              Michigan has several liberal hot button issues, from right to work to gay marriage to racial inequality. It the litmus test for support of a Netroots gathering is the negative quality of its legislation, then Detroit should have received the same treatment as Phoenix.

              There's no SB1070, but there's an fiscal emergency law that takes local control away from poorer (and usually blacker) populations.

              Inconsistency.

              And who said anything about not deciding?  You pulled that right out of your hat - or somewhere on the other end.

              It's funny that you would think that I pulled that out of 'the other end' because it was a response to your earlier comment:

              ...every decision has its pros and cons or no decision would have to be made.
              More specifically, it's a paraphrase of a lyric from the Rush song, Freewill. That's all.

              Unfortunately, many other - such as yourself - have not been nearly as polite or considerate.

              And this is the point where I stop taking what you have to say seriously. I've been nothing but polite, considerate, and respectful. If you can't see that through whatever filter you're reading this with, then my continuing to engage with you is not a good use of time for either of us.

              Take care.

              "Believe nothing, no matter where you read it or who has said it, even if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense."

              by grape crush on Tue Jul 22, 2014 at 09:25:55 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

  •  I think Kossacks an have a great presence (12+ / 0-)

    …at NN in 2015. And, why not? They know how to organize themselves and fully engage in the event.


    _______________
    For an idea that does not at first seem insane, there is no hope.
                -- Albert Einstein:  far left, emo-prog, socialist.

    by Pluto on Tue Jul 22, 2014 at 06:07:55 AM PDT

  •  I Just Think It's Wrong to Go To Phoenix (5+ / 0-)

    You are rewarding a state government who put these horrible laws in place with your tax dollars.  The only effective way to fight these laws is a boycott, because, frankly, changing the electorate in this state is still several presidential election cycles away, and changing the state legislature or electing a Democratic governor may take even longer.  

    "The quote on the Statue of Liberty doesn't say 'give me your english-speaking only, Christian-believing, heterosexual masses'

    by unapologeticliberal777 on Tue Jul 22, 2014 at 06:14:10 AM PDT

  •  Thanks. (15+ / 0-)

    I made this point (or attempted to) yesterday, about successfully bringing attention to a local problem.  Sadly, it was left to better known kossacks to get the point across.  

    I'm not always political, but when I am I vote Democratic. Stay Democratic, my friends. -The Most Interesting Man in the World

    by boran2 on Tue Jul 22, 2014 at 06:16:58 AM PDT

  •  Former AZ House Minority Leader John Loredo on (25+ / 0-)

    Phoenix 2015 -

    http://www.netrootsnation.org/...

    “Thank you for supporting the boycott we called. We called for the boycott to bring economic pressure onto the state and to force Arizona business leaders to get off the bench and into the immigration fight. It worked. The year after Senate Bill 1070 passed, business leaders testified at the State Senate and took the position that Arizona could no longer sustain the economic boycott and the legislature needed to stop passing any more harmful immigration bills. Since that point, not one immigration bill has passed at the Arizona state legislature. We accomplished our goal, and those of us who called for the boycott called it off. We hope those that respected our calling for the boycott will respect our decision to call it off.

    Arizona is a perfect location for the 2015 Netroots Nation conference. We have large union hotels that serve our Phoenix convention center, and bringing thousands of Netroots attendees here to those hotels would benefit those workers and highlight the hard work Unite Here has done to organize this workforce. We hope the progressive community will support their work.

    In the same way we halted the immigration bills, our progressive and labor organizations have united to stop the anti-gay religious right-to-discriminate legislation (Senate Bill 1062). After its passage, thousands of activists pressured the business community and chambers of commerce, who in turn begged Gov. Jan Brewer to veto SB1062 specifically because of the threat of economic boycott. They did not want to go through what happened after SB1070. Brewer, who signed SB1070 into law, listened and vetoed SB1062. The great work by the progressive, Latino and the human rights community in Arizona was highlighted by panelists in the Netroots Nation 2014 panel “Religious Exemptions: The Next Frontier for Progressive Battles.” We want the progressive community to come to one of the front lines of this battle, which is still ongoing.

    The political landscape is changing quickly in Arizona. Democrats now hold five of our nine Congressional seats. In 2012, our labor and progressive tables worked together to win back four seats in the state senate, which eliminated the Tea Party super-majority won in 2010. This victory made it possible to find a moderate bi-partisan majority to kill extremist anti-labor and ALEC legislation, and to pass Medicaid expansion. With just two more pick-ups in 2014, we can tie the senate at 15-15, which would allow us to go on the offensive with a progressive legislative agenda. Our coalitions have also defeated the legislature’s extreme anti-voter agenda and helped to elect committed Progressives in competitive city council elections in Phoenix, Tempe, Tucson and Flagstaff.

    Our successes are growing and building on one another. Momentum is shifting in our favor and we are excited about our future. Arizona has one of the largest Rising American Electorate populations per capita in the country (900,000 already registered and another 900,000 eligible to vote). Because of these tectonic demographic shifts, Arizona will turn blue even if we do nothing in 15-20 years. But we have a plan to do it by 2016. We want Netroots Nation to be a part of that success.

    What would you get if we are successful? Arizona has 11 electoral votes. Flipping Arizona could fundamentally tilt Electoral College math in our favor for the foreseeable future. Those votes don’t disappear when it gets hot, and neither should Netroots. There is no reason the decision to come to Arizona should divide the Netroots community, even at the margins. This is an opportunity to highlight and impact our national debate over immigration at the issue’s epicenter. Most of the national Progressive community is investing heavily in Arizona because of the infrastructure we have created and the victories we have achieved. There’s much more work to do, and it will not be easy. Arizona should be supported for everything our Latino and Progressive community has accomplished, and for what we are working to change, not punished in perpetuity.”

    I think it's worth repeating that Democrats now hold five of our nine Congressional seats in "deep red, backwoods" Arizona. Compare that to states like Ohio & Michigan, which Obama carried both in 2008 & 2012, burt Democrats hold a pitiful minority of Congressional seats. Why? Because Republican legislators gerrymandered the hell out of the districts. But here in Arizona, we voters took decisions out of the hands of legislators  carving out districts for the benefit of themselves and their party, and put the decision into the hands of a non-partisan Independent Redistricting Commission. Republican politicians are still whining about that.

    David Koch, a teacher and a Tea Partier sit down a table with a plate of a dozen cookies. Koch quickly stuffs 11 cookies in his pockets, leans to the bagger and says "watch out, the union thug will try to steal your cookie".

    by Dave in AZ on Tue Jul 22, 2014 at 06:20:54 AM PDT

  •  Tipped and rec'ed - I support your decision to go (18+ / 0-)

    even though I won't be going.

    Thanks for highlighting the people who demonstrated, and for mentioning the name and activism of one of the panelists Maureen Taylor, from Michigan Welfare Rights (a video of the panel is finally up - though no one on it is identified in the description of it - they are simply "the locals".

     

    "If you're in a coalition and you're comfortable, you know it's not a broad enough coalition." Dr. Bernice Johnson Reagon

    by Denise Oliver Velez on Tue Jul 22, 2014 at 06:26:37 AM PDT

    •  Maureen is a super star (12+ / 0-)

      And Detroit has its share of activist super stars. Education activist Helen Moore is another. I have mad respect for all of these folks and (re)commit to using my voice to help them achieve their goals.

      "Back off, man. I'm a scientist."
      -- Dr. Peter Venkman


      Join me, LOLGOP, Anne Savage, Amy Lynn Smith, & Emma White at Eclectablog.

      by Eclectablog on Tue Jul 22, 2014 at 06:30:46 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I was saddened by the turnout (14+ / 0-)

        to that session, as I was by the poor showing for Rev. Barber's speech.  I know you know that since you heard an earful from me about it when we were there. ;)

        I was gladdened by those attendees who did march at the rally - and very pleased to see it get national news attention. But what moved me the most was seeing people watch - in Detroit - from their offices and on their lunch break. Some joined the crowd.

        Before the rally, in the bathroom in the Cobo Center, I talked to the young black woman stationed in there about the demonstration...she said she couldn't leave to go, and told me to "march for me and all the citizens of Detroit who have no damn water"  She was an SEIU union member.  We hugged and then sang together before I left the washroom, and some other women waiting in line joined in...it was an interesting moment.  I think many of the women waiting to pee saw her as a person at that point  and not just someone who you ask to replace the toilet paper in a booth.

        "If you're in a coalition and you're comfortable, you know it's not a broad enough coalition." Dr. Bernice Johnson Reagon

        by Denise Oliver Velez on Tue Jul 22, 2014 at 06:40:34 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  ^^^ This (10+ / 0-)

          The Wisconsin Uprising did amazing things for my vision.

          Everywhere in our country, people are stratified: class, race, education, and the list goes on.

          Everyone's workplace is stratified too. My workplace happens to have the kind of stratification that comes with academic institutions. There is a lot of misunderstanding and resentment across all levels of the strata.

          Nothing like sitting on a bus several times a week/month on the journey to Madison, chatting with professor colleagues, TAs, custodians, clerical staff, adjuncts, physical plant workers, and actually SEEING each other for the first time.

          It is easy to forget how important a culture of support and community is necessary to make our society truly work. The folks at the helm of our ship of state have been working for decades to keep us from seeing each other and supporting each other.

          •  educators pointed out how to demonize schools (8+ / 0-)

            outsource

            start with bus drivers. Outsource

            then food workers. Rinse and repeat

            then janitors. you know the story by now

            then bring in "science" with magic numbers to show that the school is failing

            outsource to charter schools

            fire teachers

            close buildings which are anchors for community

            bring in more militirized police

            use drug laws and small infractions to fill the school to prison pipeline & the neighborhood to prison pipeline

            bring in banksters who were successful in cutting in half the wealth of blacks in the 2008 meltdown

            send used military equipment and military officers to keep the people in line

            enact ALEC legislation to grease the skids

            sell off property to high class univ to use for branch campuses

            Comment: the order of these tactics varies by location, but the term Disaster Capitalism is a fairly good catch all

        •  I love this! (8+ / 0-)

          I, too, enjoyed watching the Detroit folks on their lunch hours watching in amazement and voicing their support.

          "Back off, man. I'm a scientist."
          -- Dr. Peter Venkman


          Join me, LOLGOP, Anne Savage, Amy Lynn Smith, & Emma White at Eclectablog.

          by Eclectablog on Tue Jul 22, 2014 at 06:56:20 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Good deal (21+ / 0-)

    Thanks for the support and thanks for raising the point about wheat/ chaff.

    I came across a couple of articles recently that seem to make a clear case where our activism might be most useful in Arizona - Voter registration, education and mobilization.

    Latinos in Arizona Failing to Tap Voting Potential

    The number of eligible Latino voters in Arizona is growing rapidly, and they already have the potential to influence elections, including upcoming congressional races in November, according to a report released Tuesday.

    But their power at the ballot box has lagged behind their numbers because many eligible Latino voters haven’t registered to vote or stay home on Election Day, says the report by Latino Decisions, a Seattle-based polling and research company.

    “A lot of it is going to come down to voter mobilization,” said Gabriel Sanchez, associate professor of political science at the University of New Mexico and director of research at Latino Decisions.

    From 2008 to 2012, the number of eligible Latino voters in Arizona increased 24 percent, to 989,000, up from 796,000, according to the report.

    But only 52 percent of eligible Latinos were registered in 2012, and only 40 percent of those eligible actually voted, according to the report.

    By comparison, 71 percent of eligible White voters were registered in 2012, and 62 percent voted.

    The report was commissioned by America’s Voice, an immigrant-advocacy group pushing for immigration reform in Congress.

    And another as a response ...
    How we're closing the Latino voting gap
    A major reason for that trend involves the efforts of One Arizona and its 12 nonpartisan member organizations. The staff and volunteers in these groups engage thousands of people throughout the year promoting voter registration, early voting and Election Day turnout. We choose to do this work because of a lack of sufficient and comparable efforts by our state's civic leaders, elected officials, and county and state election departments.

    We've been successful because we meet people where they live, shop, gather for worship and community events, and on the doorsteps of their homes. Democracy in action is not only about what happens in the halls of power.

    Water is a big deal here too and I hope climate and environmental issues will also be a prominent theme at this conference.

    Here's to the glorious pessimists who still fight for optimism and better days. If you are walking with a grim slit on your face, it's because you give a shit that things are falling down and don't think that bullshit happy talk is a plan. - LHM

    by cosmic debris on Tue Jul 22, 2014 at 06:29:01 AM PDT

  •  Thanks for this: (8+ / 0-)
    It has been suggested that I am implying that the march and rally would have been nothing without the involvement of Netroots Nation participants. Let me be clear about this: NOTHING could be further from the truth. I have nothing but huge respect for the fierce warriors of Moratorium NOW!, DemocracyMovement.us, the Detroit Water Brigade, and the other hard working activists of Detroit.
    I think it is important to lay the win at the feet of the people who have been working so hard on the subject versus those that were temporarily able to support them.

    The only hawk I like is the kind that has feathers. My birding blogs: http://thisskysings.wordpress.com/ and canyonbirds.net

    by cany on Tue Jul 22, 2014 at 06:30:02 AM PDT

  •  grass roots at NN14 was very strong (12+ / 0-)

    i went to 15 of 200 events, which shows how hard it is to capture the whole conference

    my main take away was grassroots efforts to stand up to power

    article out today which highlights this view of the conference

    At Netroots, progressive activists turn to traditional organizing

    then there is the good article by David Dayden at Salon.com which highlights the split in the party and the split here at DK

    The left’s existential dilemma: How Joe Biden’s Netroots speech revealed his party’s crossroads
    While the VP issued a paean to consensus it was another speaker's plea for moral reconstruction that stole the show

    and a third article posted at Campaign for America's Future

    the term Snake Line entered the lexicon from Rev Barber

    Snakes and Ladders at Netroots Nation

    •  I liked Dayan's piece (5+ / 0-)

      the snakes and ladders bit in the other about "entering the lexicon" is - imho an exaggeration.  As Dayan pointed out Barber's speech was  "told to a half-empty crowd"

      I was amazed by how many people didn't bother to go.

       

      "If you're in a coalition and you're comfortable, you know it's not a broad enough coalition." Dr. Bernice Johnson Reagon

      by Denise Oliver Velez on Tue Jul 22, 2014 at 07:03:07 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Honestly, Denise... (6+ / 0-)

        ...I don't think many folks knew about Rev. Barber and his incredible persona. I know I didn't before the conference. Now, however, I'm a committed follower of his vision.

        I don't think people blew him off as unimportant. I think they skipped the keynote out of ignorance.

        "Back off, man. I'm a scientist."
        -- Dr. Peter Venkman


        Join me, LOLGOP, Anne Savage, Amy Lynn Smith, & Emma White at Eclectablog.

        by Eclectablog on Tue Jul 22, 2014 at 07:10:35 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  people pissed after Biden security lines (3+ / 0-)

          tired and wanted to get out

          after sitting through a politician talk about the status quo with very limited change takes the wind our of your sails

          did you hear that the crazy right wing has stopped wonderful Obama at every turn and they are to blame for the lack of action on the real issues

          it is hard to blame the right wing for:

          - cabinet members who are banksters and corporate leaders and consultants

          - TPP, TPIP and TISA

          - education policy that destroys schools and ex leaders like the mayor of chicago

          - and the ongoing attempt to gut social security with the latest effort to outsource as has done in government at all levels

          Thomas Frank wrote What's The Matter with Kansas a few years ago. This article is about What's A Matter with Obama and the Democrats

          this conference featured grass roots activists because activism at the high levels is not working very well

          The Obama team, as the president once announced to a delegation of investment bankers, was “the only thing between you and the pitchforks,” and in retrospect these words seem not only to have been a correct assessment of the situation at the moment but a credo for his entire term in office. For my money, they should be carved in stone over the entrance to his monument: Barack Obama as the one-man rescue squad for an economic order that had aroused the fury of the world. Better: Obama as the awesomely talented doctor who kept the corpse of a dead philosophy lumbering along despite it all.
          Right-wing obstruction could have been fought: An ineffective and gutless presidency’s legacy is failure
          Yes, we know, the crazy House. But we were promised hope and change on big issues. We got no vision and less action

          Barber had an up hill battle for attention after Biden

        •  Rec'ing though I don't agree (4+ / 0-)

          that may excuse some - but plenty of Kossaks know about Rev Barber ( and others who are not Kos folks do too)

          I actually asked quite a few people why they weren't there.
          For many of them - the superstar event was Elizabeth Warren.  Which is interesting.  Onomastic pointed out to me earlier today that Warren covered similar themes in her address that Barber did in his.

          For all the lip service paid to activism - Rev. Barber was the keynote speaker who actually is an activist, spearheading a mass movement - and not a politician.  

          I skipped Biden.  Figgered I could watch the video which was posted instantly.  As was the video for Warren.  I had to argue with, beg, plead, harass the tech crew about the Barber video - about when it would be posted, since I was going to front page it.  Had True Blue standing by to do a transcript. It didn't happen (the posting) - until way later.

          Even now - check the blogosphere and see how much coverage his  (Barber's) speech got.  

          "If you're in a coalition and you're comfortable, you know it's not a broad enough coalition." Dr. Bernice Johnson Reagon

          by Denise Oliver Velez on Tue Jul 22, 2014 at 07:45:53 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Great articles! (4+ / 0-)

      Thanks for the links.

      "Back off, man. I'm a scientist."
      -- Dr. Peter Venkman


      Join me, LOLGOP, Anne Savage, Amy Lynn Smith, & Emma White at Eclectablog.

      by Eclectablog on Tue Jul 22, 2014 at 07:08:55 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Thank you for this perspective. (11+ / 0-)

    I think you make some excellent points. I think NN15 will be an important rallying point for progressives in the state and activists of all stripes from all over. Focusing on our inhumane immigration policies is well overdue. Fighting racist laws is our duty.

    When the water march coincided with Netroots, I thought: this will get some attention. Because, of course, the media isn't interested in the water crisis or Detroit so much as it is reporting on a "gathering of liberals that cannot be named."

    I wasn't planning to go to Netroots, but when I heard about the march, I wished I could drive in just to go to that! I had other family plans that prevented it.

  •  Thank you (18+ / 0-)

    One of the biggest obstacles faced by Democrats in Arizona is lack of organization. We are virtually ignored by the party, and all too often simply written off.

    In that respect, I think that in addition to what youve written, just the opportunity to participate in workshops with other activists from around the country and to learn from their experience has the potential to be hugely valuable.

    In some ways, maybe Kos's decision to boycott the conference has been a good thing in that it has prompted all of us to think about what the purpose of the conference is, and what it should be. I know that has made it clear to me that it shouldnt just be a "party scene", as Kos has put it, and has made me determined to make sure that the conference and workshops are a productive experience for those of you who are willing and brave enough to come out here and help us make a difference in this state.

    To believe that markets determine value is to believe that milk comes from plastic bottles. Bromley (1985)

    by sneakers563 on Tue Jul 22, 2014 at 07:12:06 AM PDT

    •  A-effing-MEN! (9+ / 0-)

      This...

      In some ways, maybe Kos's decision to boycott the conference has been a good thing in that it has prompted all of us to think about what the purpose of the conference is, and what it should be. I know that has made it clear to me that it shouldnt just be a "party scene", as Kos has put it, and has made me determined to make sure that the conference and workshops are a productive experience for those of you who are willing and brave enough to come out here and help us make a difference in this state.
      ...is spot on. Thanks for the comment and perspective.

      "Back off, man. I'm a scientist."
      -- Dr. Peter Venkman


      Join me, LOLGOP, Anne Savage, Amy Lynn Smith, & Emma White at Eclectablog.

      by Eclectablog on Tue Jul 22, 2014 at 07:14:15 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Thank you. I may make NN15 my first progressive (12+ / 0-)

    conference since 1996. Although browner than Markos (see my profile pic) I personally feel the risk of arrest in Phoenix is probably no worse than my risk from being black, gay, liberal and outspoken everywhere else. Radiation therapy scheduling interfered with my intention to attend NN14, 'next door' to me, or I'd have been at a water rally.

    I have a nephew who practices medicine in Arizona. He has gone so far as to actually have his wife and children living there as well. I've even visited them --without arrest. Barring a return of prostate cancer or some other complication, I'm making plans to join you.

    Enough fossil fuel remains on Earth to warm it 6 degrees C by 2100 AD if it is all used. A +6 C planet will only sustain half a billion humans. Human population will rise to 9 billion by 2050. Any questions?

    by davidincleveland on Tue Jul 22, 2014 at 07:22:21 AM PDT

    •  The snark in your last paragraph was (0+ / 0-)

      really unnecessary.  Disagree with him, but why not just respect Markos decision and reasoning?  Why make immature low blows?

      •  That wasn't snark. (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        davidincleveland, manyamile, CenPhx

        Dallasdoc: "Snowden is the natural successor to Osama bin Laden as the most consequential person in the world, as his actions have the potential to undo those taken in response to Osama."

        by gooderservice on Tue Jul 22, 2014 at 09:02:14 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  You ask me to 'respect' a double lie. No can do. (0+ / 0-)

        Markos gave two reasons for boycotting NN15. One reason, about SB1070, was given the lie by brown activists in Arizona, who had asked for action on that issue in the first place. It would indeed be immature to run over to Kos's Phoenix Part II and post that "gotcha" right in our host's face, and I won't do that. I was even willing to mild-manneredly not call 2nd attention to that trenchent blockquote here --until your crack.

        My assessment of a second lie is more subjective. If you are ex-military (as are both Markos and I) you may be able to follow my gut reasoning on it. The one thing every service seeks to wash out of its ranks in boot camp is a coward. Nothing in Markos' service bio and subsequent history supports any belief that he is a coward. Far from it.

        Furthermore, arrest with the world watching is SOP to help non-publicized local activists. Asking me to buy fear of our modus operandi as a legitimate excuse to avoid our stated job as activists is fatuous. It is therefore impossible for me to 'respect his reasoning'.

        As for respecting his decision, I absolutely do, but only if he is honest about his reasons or silent about them. I cannot respect any part of a lie.

        Enough fossil fuel remains on Earth to warm it 6 degrees C by 2100 AD if it is all used. A +6 C planet will only sustain half a billion humans. Human population will rise to 9 billion by 2050. Any questions?

        by davidincleveland on Tue Jul 22, 2014 at 09:07:28 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Wow. That's all I can say to this post. Is just (0+ / 0-)

          a very disgusted wow.

        •  Some people are willing to stand up not only in (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          davidincleveland

          word but deed.  Some aren't.  But that's okay, because others will.

          Dallasdoc: "Snowden is the natural successor to Osama bin Laden as the most consequential person in the world, as his actions have the potential to undo those taken in response to Osama."

          by gooderservice on Tue Jul 22, 2014 at 02:09:22 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Totally agree. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          davidincleveland
          Furthermore, arrest with the world watching is SOP to help non-publicized local activists.
          But obviously not everyone is willing to do it.  That's okay. There are many considerations, but others will.

          One example:  Look what Lt. Daniel Choi accomplished.

          Dallasdoc: "Snowden is the natural successor to Osama bin Laden as the most consequential person in the world, as his actions have the potential to undo those taken in response to Osama."

          by gooderservice on Tue Jul 22, 2014 at 02:13:24 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Best of "luck?" best wishes for you for the (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      davidincleveland

      cancer to be gone forever.

      Dallasdoc: "Snowden is the natural successor to Osama bin Laden as the most consequential person in the world, as his actions have the potential to undo those taken in response to Osama."

      by gooderservice on Tue Jul 22, 2014 at 02:06:56 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  As a sustainablity activist I will not be going (5+ / 0-)

    to that state in the middle of July. It is too much of a carbon footprint for a progressive event. But maybe you can do something to push sustainablity in the state by fighting the state's (and the Koch's) strategy to kill solar in a state that is perfect for PV.

    http://www.businessweek.com/...

    Another issue is the inverse of Detroit's water problem. Water rationing needs to happen.

    http://finance.yahoo.com/...

    If we are serious about climate change we need to be serious about cities like Phoenix and Las Vegas.

    •  Strangely enough (9+ / 0-)

      In 2010, Arizona was ranked 34th in per capita energy expenditures, better than the national average.

      To believe that markets determine value is to believe that milk comes from plastic bottles. Bromley (1985)

      by sneakers563 on Tue Jul 22, 2014 at 08:01:06 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Just to be clear (7+ / 0-)

        It was ranked 34th, with #1 being the highest. In other words, per capita energy expenditure is relatively low.

        In a way, it's not that strange. The population is overwhelmingly concentrated in two large cities, which leads to economies of scale. My wife and I average about 4,000 miles per year on our car, 1/5 of my parents' average in Connecticut. Traditional Arizona construction is relatively energy efficient, and while air conditioning usage is certainly high in the summer, very little heating is required in the winter.

        To believe that markets determine value is to believe that milk comes from plastic bottles. Bromley (1985)

        by sneakers563 on Tue Jul 22, 2014 at 08:27:01 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I think another part of the picture is (4+ / 0-)

          That in summer, energy is expended  by air conditioning systems by many Arizonans, but in winter , spring and fall, we don't hear or air condition very much at all. A lot of Arizonans master the art of opening up the dwelling at night and close it during the day, or adjust according to conditions.
          Any southern city will be using a/c in summer. And as to personal carbon footprint, distance travelled is probably the main factor.

          •  Yeah, our personal schedule is something like (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            manyamile, emeraldmaiden, CS in AZ

            April & May: evaporative cooler
            June - August: AC
            September & October: evaporative cooler
            November - March: occasional use of heat.

            Speaking of distance travelled, I believe the Tucson streetcar finally opens to the public this weekend.

            To believe that markets determine value is to believe that milk comes from plastic bottles. Bromley (1985)

            by sneakers563 on Tue Jul 22, 2014 at 11:01:58 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  That is pretty much mine too! I have a/c in one (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              emeraldmaiden, sneakers563

              Room, a go to cave when needed. And not even a swamp cooler in the rest of the house...but I do have a porch, insulation and windows with fabric covered foam sheets to deploy and remove as needed
              My shop has fans and a little evaporative cooler, but the main schedule for making that space usable involves adjusting my work schedule. 8-5 not always the best option.

              Looking forward to a ride ride on the streetcar!

              •  Woof! I couldn't handle not having anything (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                manyamile

                in the rest of the house.

                I will say, though, that I used to live in an old adobe row house near downtown. One year the fan on the heat pump came apart and ripped through the coolant tubes. We were without anything for a few days. The result was interesting. The house warmed up to about 82 degrees or so and then... stayed there. It didn't really cool off at night either, as the adobe seemed to radiate the heat back into the house, but the temperature basically stabilized at 80-82 the entire time. Suddenly, the traditional "stay inside during the daytime / sleep out on the porch at night" approach that people used to do made a lot more sense. It really wasn't that bad.

                To believe that markets determine value is to believe that milk comes from plastic bottles. Bromley (1985)

                by sneakers563 on Tue Jul 22, 2014 at 01:26:42 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

    •  as someone who is interested in sustainability (9+ / 0-)

      issues i think it would be a good place to address issues, especially related to the southwest and intermountain west.
      Phoenix is undeniably a beast, but is making progress.

      water issues are paramount of course

      by the way, when it comes to Colorado river allottments

      California is number one at 29%

      Colorado is number two at 23%
      Arizona #3 at 27% and Utah number 4 at  11%

      and most of the water is drawn for agricultural use.

      most progressives in the west understand the crucial  environmental problems we face. it isn't just about carbon footprint, we have problems with water , drought, inappropriate architecture for maximum energy conservation, population sprawl, mineral and resource extraction in sensitive areas, state policies that  are still not on board  with addressing climate change. the list goes on.

      yes there are issues and yes they are here, and yes there is progress on many many levels.
      I hope  that knowledgeable people with good i deas and proven successes will come and share  their knowledge  at NN 15.
       our only difference is how we see fit to address the issues with regard to this conference. and i hope we can respect each other on that.

    •  Yoshimi, I'm also very concerned about (12+ / 0-)

      sustainability and sometimes work with ASU's Global Institute of Sustainability, one of the largest university programs in the world. As a long-time Phoenix resident, I know all too well we've done some crazy-ass stuff that's ruined our land, wasted our water, and destroyed our cultures -- about the most UNsustainable activity imaginable.

      But just as Arizona is moving from deep red to at least purple and maybe blue soon, there's a whole cast of characters and organizations here that are tackling sustainability head-on. Should there be a region of 5 million people in the middle of the desert? No, but there is, so what do we do about it? Phoenix itself has a pretty good sustainability initiative. Of course the wackos in the legislature think it, Agenda 21 and similar efforts are communist plots; they tried recently to pass a bill that would actually outlaw Phoenix's program, and those of other cities. Happily, it failed.  

      Arizona meet-up, July 27 in Phoenix. Meet Navajo! Send me Kosmail.

      by Mother Mags on Tue Jul 22, 2014 at 08:40:10 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Wish I'd been there. In Ann Arbor there is a deli (3+ / 0-)

    named Zingerman's.

    I lived about a block away from it my last year of undergrad.

    :)))))))))

    /roadtrip

    Happy little moron, Lucky little man.
    I wish I was a moron, MY GOD, Perhaps I am!
    —Spike Milligan

    by polecat on Tue Jul 22, 2014 at 07:30:28 AM PDT

  •  thanks for this! i think another benefit (7+ / 0-)

    is that a conference inspires , motivates and draws people. That energy boost is extremely important for people in swing states and in predominantly red states.
    I agree, the people who   work as activists every day have been doing it for years. few of us online blabbers match their dedication  and sheer stamina and persistence.

    but i do believe that  one way you measure success, whether it is in getting out the vote or staging a demonstration  ,is not only gathering and increasing the core group, but expanding participation on all levels.  like an above thread commenter mentioned..even local people who  notice, what is going on? oh WOW!

    the core has been doing this all year, every year, but the greater the participation, the greater the awareness. and a nice big headcount helps , for the news, the connections  and  the coffers.

    in Arizona people can be isolated, and face any number of obstacles internal or external. over time we can  start feeling defeated , hopeless or cynical.

    a conference does have enough of a 'carrot' effect that it  can be planned for, saved for and attended by someone who  doesn't always get across the state for a meeting.

    the psychological and emotional boost have a way of motivating people, from the center to the bleacher seats.

    I think people realize if you show up, it is a big deal.whether you tend to be a hardworking activist,  a  dreamer ,  or an introverted desert rat mainstream looking democrat. if a conference means a couple of thousand people bump up their activity to the next level, whatever that level is, it is all for the good.

  •  I've never accomplished anything with my absence (6+ / 0-)

    so I guess this whole thing seems somewhat foreign to me.

  •  I'm going ahead with buying the memberships (6+ / 0-)

    I've done every year for a while now.  Whether they get used is something that will be decided later.

    I have no difficulty understanding the issues on all sides, so it's going to come down to what's happening in my personal life and what my options look like next spring when it comes to deciding whether I attend or not.

    Strength and dignity are her clothing, she rejoices at the days to come; She opens her mouth with wisdom, and the law of kindness is on her tongue.

    by loggersbrat on Tue Jul 22, 2014 at 08:04:10 AM PDT

  •  Hope to see you in 2015, Eclectablog, and thanks (7+ / 0-)

    for the reasoned words of inspiration. If Markos and others want to stay away, that's their decision and we should just accept it and end the "he's right or wrong" arguments.

    But a lot of us here can't boycott the state because it's our home, many of us love it, and we want to see the change that's coming come faster.

    Someone suggested this is all a plot by Markos to increase attendance at our meet-up this Sunday in Phoenix with Navajo! I don't know about that, but we do have a nice crowd coming. Anyone who hasn't signed up and wants to attend, please Kosmail me and I'll provide info.

    Arizona meet-up, July 27 in Phoenix. Meet Navajo! Send me Kosmail.

    by Mother Mags on Tue Jul 22, 2014 at 08:47:53 AM PDT

    •  I'm sure you'll be on the host committee... (6+ / 0-)

      ...and this will give you an excellent opportunity to help the NN15 organizers connect with the right groups and efforts to have a tangible impact. As Netroots Nation progresses, I forsee more and more interest in ensuring that there is involvement by local activists and that they play some sort of positive role during their visit.

      My email box is wide open as you move forward and are looking for ideas on how to make NN15 as impactful as possible.

      See you in a year!

      "Back off, man. I'm a scientist."
      -- Dr. Peter Venkman


      Join me, LOLGOP, Anne Savage, Amy Lynn Smith, & Emma White at Eclectablog.

      by Eclectablog on Tue Jul 22, 2014 at 09:06:07 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Sanctions (i.e., boycott), or direct action. (7+ / 0-)

    Sanctions are known to hurt the common people, the poor and less off.  Direct action gets noticed, gets people involved, gets things done.  Boycotts or sanctions can help in some cases like against a particular store or company, but when it's done against an entire state or country, it usually just hurts the same people that need the help.

    "Fragmented and confused, we have no plan to combat any of this, but are looking to be saved by the very architects of our ruination."

    by BigAlinWashSt on Tue Jul 22, 2014 at 08:57:37 AM PDT

    •  I agree (7+ / 0-)

      I'm not convinced that general boycotts really work all that well. All too often it causes people to harden their positions.

      The example that everyone always gives is the earlier MLK boycott of Arizona. But after the two competing ballot propositions were narrowly defeated in 1990, the Arizona Daily Star, which had endorsed the propositions, conducted a followup poll that suggested that the threatened boycott may have actually hurt the propositions' chances of passing. Apparently, there were people who resented what they thought was outside interference in a state issue, and voted against the holiday for that reason.

      That's not to say that people outside the State shouldn't have a say. But the effects are often more complicated then people believe, and it's one reason to listen to the people on the front lines who are most directly involved with the fight. Markos can certainly made decisions for himself and his family. But when it comes to the question of whether a boycott will help turn Arizona blue, I give more weight to the opinions of Raul Grijalva and John Loredo.

      To believe that markets determine value is to believe that milk comes from plastic bottles. Bromley (1985)

      by sneakers563 on Tue Jul 22, 2014 at 11:57:51 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Phoenix in July? (0+ / 0-)

    There's a reason that northern cities host the bulk of their conventions in the summer months.

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site