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Razzle and I attended our first class with the new trainer this morning.

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She was not my dog, she was an angel.  What the hell is that all about?

I got out of the car at the parking lot and looked into the tennis courts that serve as the closed in training area.  There were no less that 7 dogs there already, all with this prong pinch collar on that this facility uses.  They ranged from a tiny little red terrier kind of dog to a huge african mastiff.  I brought Razzle into the enclosure and prepared for her to start barking and jumping, like she does at home when she sees or hears another dog.  But no, she stood right at my left heel, eventually laid down and waited until it was her turn to take a walk around to show what she knows.  She was very calm and well behaved, she made me look like a looney.  So we spent 1 1/2 hrs there and then I took her to Petco when I went to buy dog food.  A small dog sat right next to us in line and everything was quiet and smooth.  I don't know what to think but I don't think this is her permanent attitude.  I do hope she remembers some of this tomorrow when we walk.  If she can make progress, I will be very grateful.  I feel guilty for using this pinch collar on her but I have been unable to get her attention when she sees other dogs and goes crazy.  If this doesn't work, I may not be able to take her out in public, to the park or the beach.  I want those things for her so I will keep working on it if I see progress.  How did you train your dog?  

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Comment Preferences

  •  Tip Jar (21+ / 0-)

    "I am an old woman, named after my mother. my old man is another child who's grown old." John Prine (not an old woman)

    by art ah zen on Wed Jul 30, 2014 at 09:45:02 PM PDT

  •  We never had to train our dog (15+ / 0-)

    She found us at the corner of California and Buchanan in San Francisco in February 1986 and the vet said she was 6-8 years old. We had her for eight years.

    I'd get another but I travel too much.

    All it takes is security in your own civil rights to make you complacent.

    by Dave in Northridge on Wed Jul 30, 2014 at 10:11:46 PM PDT

  •  After butchering the brontosaurus, we... (14+ / 0-)

    Good Lord, that was way back in 1966.  Kaiser, some kind of black lab/border collie mix that my parents got because "it would be good for the kids," was the cutest little black puppy but he grew into a highly enthusiastic adolescent.  Every wednesday my brothers and I would hike down to the Y for obedience training classes, using the classic mix of rewards and disincentives to get him to sit and heel and fetch.  We never got very sophisticated but it was enough - except for his persistent habit of digging up the rose bushes.  He must have been able to smell doggy gold down there or something.

    Vai o tatu-bola escamoso encontrar-me onde estou escondendo? Lembro-me do caminho de ouro, uma pinga de mel, meu amado Parati (-8.75,-8.36)

    by tarkangi on Wed Jul 30, 2014 at 10:29:08 PM PDT

  •  I've never trained a dog, but my cat (15+ / 0-)

    has me very well-trained!

    My crafts are 100% Hobby-Lobby Free! Visit my Handmade Gallery on Zibbet

    by jan4insight on Wed Jul 30, 2014 at 10:30:13 PM PDT

  •  We have a cat, and you don't train them... (12+ / 0-)

    ...they train you, as jan4insight so aptly notes. Seriously though, you've got to set boundaries, otherwise you're a slave to their feline desires.

    We're on our 3rd one. She's strictly an indoor kitty. We allowed our two previous cats to go in and out as they pleased as long as they came in before dusk....before the crazy kicks in.

    We got tired of trying to corral the critters back into the house. This latest kitty only is allowed outside on a leash in the back yard...and only first thing in the morning on the weekends...she knows the routine. If it's raining, windy or too cold and she doesn't want to go out, tough....better luck next weekend.

    •  I miss my Buddy. (11+ / 0-)

      He went over the Rainbow Bridge a few months ago, and I still expect him to greet me at the door after work.

      He came up my fire escape and decided to move in, and he was very cuddly and loved to sit in my lap while I was typing and/or reading here.

      Buddy: you were wonderful. I hope you are chasing butterflies and mice in the Great Hunting Ground.

      English usage is sometimes more than mere taste, judgment and education - sometimes it's sheer luck, like getting across the street. E. B. White

      by Youffraita on Thu Jul 31, 2014 at 12:15:50 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  i am SO sorry for your loss. (7+ / 0-)

        you know i understand, as do we all.  the first 2 weeks after rubi died, i could hardly come home without falling apart.  no dog at the door, no dog barking at visitors, no dog kisses, i was miserable.  i may have gotten razzle in haste but when i think of of it worked out, i know i was supposed to be there to get her the day i did.  i hope buddy is playing with all our bridged pets.

        have a good day.

        "I am an old woman, named after my mother. my old man is another child who's grown old." John Prine (not an old woman)

        by art ah zen on Thu Jul 31, 2014 at 07:15:52 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  my daughter tried her big ginger (8+ / 0-)

      on a leash.  it worked pretty well but he got bored with the limits and now just stays inside.  all of my indoor cats can go out through the dog door but they have been in hiding since i got razzle and they seldom get out now.  that's ok with me, i don't worry so much about them, but i am sorry they miss the garden.  i hope things will mellow out soon.  it seems like its been years but i got razzle on friday the 13th in june, just 7 weeks.  times flies when you're having fun.

      have a good day.

      "I am an old woman, named after my mother. my old man is another child who's grown old." John Prine (not an old woman)

      by art ah zen on Thu Jul 31, 2014 at 07:12:20 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  The shelter where we got our cat strongly (6+ / 0-)

        encouraged us to keep her indoors for her safety. It does make life less fretful. We have a local posting site and there are messages daily about missing pets...including a parrot that often "flies the coop".

        •  "often flies the coop"! (6+ / 0-)

          how often does he get away and who brings him back?  funny.  i agree about keeping cats indoors, their life expectancy is much longer and they are healthier.  i have one cat that can not come inside.  she and the others do not interact well at all and i have made her a kitty condo and special area with her food and water outside.  she stays away from the street, in our front garden and is about 12 years old.  the other 3 used to go out, as i said, and may again, but they stayed strictly in the backyard garden.  there are dogs in the yards that abut mine and they don't want to go there.  it is pretty safe for them.  i am glad your shelter councils folks to keep them in if possible.

          "I am an old woman, named after my mother. my old man is another child who's grown old." John Prine (not an old woman)

          by art ah zen on Thu Jul 31, 2014 at 09:12:26 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  The pronged collar bothers me. (8+ / 0-)

    I had a friend who always had big dogs, shepherds and malamutes.  She never had more than a collar and slim lead and they were very well-trained.  Oh, except for her first malamute.  Somehow, he got short-changed in the brains department and never quite caught on.  

    It's getting slowly warmer though not too hot.  The problem is that the humidity is also rising.  I'm glad I got the AC fixed because I can see a need for it, at least at night, before the weekend is out.

    -7.62, -7.28 "Hold fast to dreams, for if dreams die, life is a broken winged bird that cannot fly." -Langston Hughes

    by luckylizard on Thu Jul 31, 2014 at 03:34:54 AM PDT

    •  the pronged collar bothers me too, (6+ / 0-)

      a lot.  i am reaching out to this company because i am so worried that i will not get a handle on razzle and her life will be less interesting.  the change in her attitude is startling, it makes me think the original owners may have tried some kind of training like this.  i inspected that chain, the prongs are all smooth, rounded, and actually curve so that they do not poke into her throat, they lay flat and just pinch the neck area to remind her.  i promise i will eliminate it as soon as possible and go back to her harness and lead.  i just need to get her comfortable enough around other dogs to ignore them so she can get out to play.  

      send me some cool a/c air in a zip lock.  i could use some.  have a good day.

      "I am an old woman, named after my mother. my old man is another child who's grown old." John Prine (not an old woman)

      by art ah zen on Thu Jul 31, 2014 at 07:21:59 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I'm working right now with (8+ / 0-)

    a terrier who was not well socialized after leaving here as a pup. She is now 5. She is so forward on the leash when she sees another dog that she scares them and it  can turn ugly in a second. I've just exposed her to a lot of dogs, using patience. When she lunges, we stay put until she calms down and sits as I ask her to.  Then we take another step or 2, she pulls, we stop. Eventually she sits. She is getting with the program.
    At first, I carried my walking stick to block her from going in front of me, but we don't need that any more. A couple of times I've grabbed her by the hair on her chinny chin chin to fix her with stink eye and demand her attention. That usually stops her shenanigans. Then I ask for sit. Treats help, after she has calmed down.
    She walks nicely on leash when no other dogs are around, so that eliminated having to teach her that.

    Only thing more infuriating than an ignorant man is one who tries to make others ignorant for his own gain. Crashing Vor

    by emmasnacker on Thu Jul 31, 2014 at 04:38:31 AM PDT

    •  i have been trying (6+ / 0-)

      to walk her around the neighborhood where there are dogs behind gates that she can pass without having to see them.  i use chicken for treats on the street. when she is confronted by another dog, her reaction was uncontrollable, dangerous to me and to her, and i was getting knocked down.  i am 63 and broke my left femur 3 years ago after being knocked down by rubi.  i am trying to avoid a repeat of that.  oh, i feel so bad for resorting to what i consider barbaric measures but i want more for her than just my yard.  i could have turned her over to this company for personal training but i would not have known how they worked with her.  they seem to be very caring and gentle with the dogs i saw in class and the tugging on the lead was short, quick little tugs with a word to the wise, no jerking or lifting the dog by the lead, none of that kind of thing.  maybe i am rationalizing it though so i can let go of some of the guilt of not being able to control her like a normal dog owner.

      "I am an old woman, named after my mother. my old man is another child who's grown old." John Prine (not an old woman)

      by art ah zen on Thu Jul 31, 2014 at 07:30:20 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Good Morning. (7+ / 0-)

    It's supposed to go up to 80 with a chance of rain this afternoon.   It's supposed to rain every afternoon and doesn't, so I don't believe weather anymore.

    I have two little pups, 14 pounders.   I've been taking them for walks every day, and they walk well.   They both start hyperventilating when they see another dog since the black shepherd ran up to us and followed us home.   Before that just my Maltese was nervous because a big beagle ran at her, and she pulled out of her harness, a few years ago.     The beagle chased her for a block.   My hubby was walking them at the time, and I was outside and she ran right to me.   So, now I cross the street when I see another dog.   I wish I didn't have to worry, but they get nervous, so I get nervous, or maybe it's the other way around.

    Taking the furry's for a walk in a while and going to the Botanic Garden.   I'm getting to really like going to the Garden most days.   The Chicago Garden is so big that I go to different areas every day.   Yesterday I walked to the fruit and veggie garden and then walked to the moth exhibit and the bonsai exhibit.   After the Garden I'll do my errands.

    No cooking dinner tonight.   Thursday night's are boy's night out for dinner.   Me time!

    Have a good day.

    I dream of a world where chickens can cross the road without having their motives questioned.

    by broths on Thu Jul 31, 2014 at 05:52:35 AM PDT

    •  i cross the street, (6+ / 0-)

      take razzle behind a car or a bush, take her to the car, anything to try to avoid confrontation.  thank the fsm (can i get a rAmen?) there haven't been any loose dogs so far.  nervous i can cope with, crazy barking, lunging, snapping i can not.  it will get better but razzle is up to 53 pounds, almost twice what both of yours are.  she is a handful.

      i so envy your daily jaunts to the garden.  it is too hot here for me to go to the ones i usually visit, so i am going to find some on or near the coast.  i think there is a spiritual center near malibu that has extensive gardens and contemplation points.

      i haven't cooked all week so tonight i am trying a new pork recipe that makes a marinade with lime, garlic, honey and FISH SAUCE!  what the hell is fish sauce?  i don't know now but by tonight, i will.

      have a great day!

      "I am an old woman, named after my mother. my old man is another child who's grown old." John Prine (not an old woman)

      by art ah zen on Thu Jul 31, 2014 at 07:37:30 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  The bottle of Fish Sauce that I have says the (5+ / 0-)

        ingredients are anchovy extract, salt and cane sugar.  Worcestershire sauce is also based on anchovy, but I think has more spices.  The marinade sounds good to me!

        If love could have saved you, you would have lived forever. &

        by weck on Thu Jul 31, 2014 at 07:44:36 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  my ex roomie sent (5+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          broths, weck, FloridaSNMOM, carolanne, Kit RMP

          me the recipe and it sounds wonderful.  he is a big cooking show fan and sends me great stuff all the time.  i learn more about spices now than i ever did before.  i cook stuff i don't eat, like jambalaya, that mr. zen likes and it broadens my horizons.  thanks for the info about fish sauce.  i read a comparison between various fish sauces and the end result was whatever your grocery store has on the shelf is good.  i like that!  teehee.

          "I am an old woman, named after my mother. my old man is another child who's grown old." John Prine (not an old woman)

          by art ah zen on Thu Jul 31, 2014 at 07:59:06 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Fish sauce is used in Chinese cooking. (5+ / 0-)

        I've used it, and it tastes fine.

        I dream of a world where chickens can cross the road without having their motives questioned.

        by broths on Thu Jul 31, 2014 at 07:56:39 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  I've trained a couple of dogs. (7+ / 0-)

    We went to obedience classes for our first assistance dog, with a lady who used to train service dogs, mostly for advice on how to get started and how to do a couple of things we weren't sure how to train. That was Sadie, and she used a prong collar too, but she loved that thing, she'd even pull the wheelchair with it on if he needed her to. They look cruel but they really don't hurt them, they work more on pressure points.  Since then we've done things on our own.

    Freya was pretty much trained when we got her, she's always been a calm dog. The only big issue we had with her is, she's fence impervious. She'll find a way out if you stick her in a fenced yard and decide to go exploring the neighborhood. She always came back, but we walk her on leash now, always. Thing is, in our own yard, we don't actually have to hold onto the leash, you just can't leave her out on her own.

    Sophie already had basic commands when we got her at 4 months. We've greatly expanded her vocabulary and she trains very easily. She loves to work, and she wants to do what she needs to do and make me happy. The only issue Sophie has; she wants to play with ALL the cats in the world, even if they are afraid of dogs.

    Morgaine is very easily distracted and she likes to bark at everything. We've been working on that, and that she likes to lunge at cars. The Gentle Leader halter has helped greatly with that. She's very curious about everything, and that's part of the problem with training her. As I said, we're working on it. She's been one of the hardest dogs to train that we've had. I'm really hoping she's going to be a late bloomer and calm down greatly at about 18 months or so. I've seen dogs do that in the past.

    "Madness! Total and complete madness! This never would've happened if the humans hadn't started fighting one another!" Londo Mollari

    by FloridaSNMOM on Thu Jul 31, 2014 at 05:57:25 AM PDT

    •  when we bought this house (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      FloridaSNMOM, broths, weck, carolanne, Kit RMP

      in 1989, there was a pond.  it was a very poorly made, shallow, useless little pond, it leaked and was too shallow for fish or plants, but it had a huge waterfall that was built back to the wall for support.  my dogs at the time considered it a stairway to heaven and used it to run across the walls that run in between all our houses here.  we don't have alleys.  so that had to come down immediately.  we replaced that pond with one that functions and left off the waterfall escape path.

      i have only twice before used a pro trainer.  most of my other dogs were not treated as well because i worked full time.  now i see how badly i treated them out of ignorance and lack of time.   this little mutt will get the best i can give her.  she wants to play with my cats even if they don't want to, and she may want to play with other dogs but is too frightened still.  i have no idea what she may have had to put up with before i got her.

      i hope that 18 month calm down comes for your pup and for mine.  they can be a handful.

      have a good day, hon!

      "I am an old woman, named after my mother. my old man is another child who's grown old." John Prine (not an old woman)

      by art ah zen on Thu Jul 31, 2014 at 07:47:27 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  So far I can't say I have had real trouble (6+ / 0-)

    training my dogs. It just takes time.

    That's partly because I have a real "alpha" personality and partly because I have had mostly hound dogs. The thing with hounds, they are very laid back but dumb as a box of rocks. It takes for ever to get the basics of sit, stay, come, heel into their tiny brains and then it takes almost daily reinforcement. But once they are past the "teenage" years, their attitude is mostly "duh, whatever you say, boss."

    There are a few things extra I also teach them: Stop means stop! Leave it means leave it! Drop means drop!  Add to that the "20 feet of rope and godspeed method" my dad taught me, and you have a nice companion you can walk with off lead (where that is safe, of course).

    The method is simple. You hook a long lead to a harness (must be a harness or you could break the dogs neck), plant your feet hard, let the dog run and upsy-daisy, they get pulled off their feet. A couple of times of that, and you can have a pleasant stroll through the woods with your dog never more than a few feet away. Sounds harsh, but it sure is better than trying to catch a dog that has never been off lead and then slips its collar.    

    "May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house." - George Carlin

    by Most Awesome Nana on Thu Jul 31, 2014 at 07:38:01 AM PDT

    •  funny you should mention this. (5+ / 0-)

      i have a 30 foot lead i use when we are at the college or park where she can run.  i did just what you relate here and it happened just as you say.  she did a big ole flip in the air, landed facing me, both of us totally surprised.  i thought planting my feet and bracing would stop her, but the harness that hooks in the front just turned her head over heels.  it was a thing of beauty to see.  she did that a couple of times and now she knows the feel of the lead getting shorter.  she still runs out to the end, but with less force behind the running. i hook her harness to her collar and all the weight is distributed evenly over her shoulders and she can not slip out of it.  when i used just the harness she figured out she could turn towards me, lower her head, brace her front legs and slide right out.  by hooking it to the collar, it can't slide off.

      we are working on the regular commands too.  i have not gotten "stay" yet, but others are done more quickly and repeatedly.  it goes on.

      "I am an old woman, named after my mother. my old man is another child who's grown old." John Prine (not an old woman)

      by art ah zen on Thu Jul 31, 2014 at 08:53:42 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  She's smart. That actually makes it harder (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        art ah zen, Kit RMP

        to train them. The dumb ones think you are a god and do your bidding.

        The rope trick works well on smart dogs. They "get it" right away.

        Keep us posted on progress. I predict a CDX in her future.

        "May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house." - George Carlin

        by Most Awesome Nana on Thu Jul 31, 2014 at 01:07:12 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  My corgi has an attitude that encourages him to (5+ / 0-)

    test every limit and "think" about every command.  He will also run in any direction with wild abandon and will herd anything that tries to run away.  Motor cycles are the current training issue.

    He was a very late bloomer, and I basically had to wait him out.  We had success with walking on lease after a few months in a harness, now I can mostly walk him easily as long as no people go by.  He wants to meet every person, so I am cautious and check to see if people want to meet him.  Most do, he is very cheerful and wiggly when he comes up to a person and no longer jumps up unless invited.  Corgis can't stay "up" very long anyway so "down" works for him now.

    For barking he needs an occasional reminder with the "bark-off devise"  but I haven't had batteries in it in a long time.  A Shhhh command goes with the devise and I can use that most of the time.  We have wild life come into the yard, and he is just "protecting"  us from deer or woodchucks. Kids walking by at night on our country road will also set him off.

    I love the advise I heard about the sit command; "There is very little trouble a dog can get into when sitting."  That doesn't work on a walk unless you see trouble before razzle does.

    I fell in love with my dog the first time he protected me from a big black german shepherd.  That dog came running from the back of its house to protect its territory from others walking by and Diesel went straight at the shepherd to protect me.  Because its family came quickly and Diesel was leashed there was no big fight, but I have no doubt that my corgi would have defended me to the end.

    I use cat treats for training, but like I said, he still has this attitude and I have never been able to be certain he will come when I call him.  He only runs off leash when we are in the big back yard and he is already a little tired from his walk.  If he escapes he wants us to play chase but we pretend to get in the car and go for a ride, and he loves going for a ride so much that he forgets he is off leash.

    We drive to the end of the driveway and back so he doesn't catch on!

    If love could have saved you, you would have lived forever. &

    by weck on Thu Jul 31, 2014 at 08:07:05 AM PDT

    •  LOL!! fooling the dog. (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      broths, carolanne, FloridaSNMOM, weck, Kit RMP

      when rubi would get loose, i would drive up next to her and open the car door and she would jump in, grinning.  you could never catch up to her on foot, she ran like nobody's business.  razzle has gotten away twice, both times she ran to a person she saw and stayed there for pets until we got there to get her.  never farther than across the street.  she wants to run with kids, bikes, joggers.  she runs in the park along the fence with the joggers on the other side, like she is with them.  its funny.

      corgis are the cutest little big dogs i have ever seen.  if someone had not stolen their legs from the knee down, they would be the size of german shepherds.  i am sure that figures into their attitude.  teehee.  so cool to know he is protective.  the one i see in the neighborhood is quite cocky.  he and rubi got into it and i ended up with a broken femur.  he is still here and has gotten into it with razzle in my own front yard.  i guess the owner has a time with him because i see them out walking and it is a very aggressive pace, with the corgi at the extreme end of the lead.  but they walk every day so it must not be too much trouble.

      "I am an old woman, named after my mother. my old man is another child who's grown old." John Prine (not an old woman)

      by art ah zen on Thu Jul 31, 2014 at 09:06:31 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Corgis are bred to keep the cattle/sheep moving! (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        art ah zen, Kit RMP

        They love to run, which is why I don't let mine off leash unless he is already exercised.  My Diesel will run and stay with a person as well; if a repair person slips up and lets him out, I just ask them to pet him while I get a leash.

        My dog did drag me along until I used the harness and shorter lead, but he is better now that he is 4 and 1/2.  He still tends to stop a lot and check the P-mail.

        If love could have saved you, you would have lived forever. &

        by weck on Thu Jul 31, 2014 at 02:06:37 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  My late corgi, Scooter, (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    broths, FloridaSNMOM, Kit RMP

    was pretty good at taking walks. She pulled a bit, and traffic frightened her, but she usually wanted to make friends with other dogs we met. She had a "best" friend, Charlie, the dog next door. They'd play together (supervised). It was fun for both of them. Scooter also got a great deal of pleasure and exercise from trying to corral a soccer ball in the yard.

    Scooter's training wasn't the best, I'm afraid. Sit and come worked pretty well; stay was iffy :) No, if said in a particularly strong tone, always worked. Once I dropped a light bulb in the kitchen and she came running (anything on the kitchen floor being fair game). She must have heard the fear in my voice (glass shards) and stopped in her tracks!

    One thing we never really managed was her barking when the phone rang. I don't know why it set her off, but it was nerve-wracking.

    Scooter was a sweetheart (sometimes a stubborn one), and I'm sure Razzle is, too. I can't offer advice, really, just encouragement. I think things will get much better!

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