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Let me start here: David Woodard, Clemson professor of political science, should be fired tomorrow.

Clemson University, a place that honors segregationist Strom Thurmond, murderous lyncher Ben Tillman, and slavemaster John C. Calhoun in various ways around campus, has an ugly racial history that's largely whitewashed to make its mostly white student and alumni base feel better.

As a graduate of Clemson and a history degree holder from the university, I can attest that the university does more than just shy away from an actual discussion on the realities of its racial history. Instead, it goes so far as to dedicate buildings to Strom Thurmond, stating on its website that the building is designed to promote the "values" of Thurmond, one of the country's most vile racists through much of the 20th century.

This is the place where students threw a "Living the Dream" party in full blackface to mock the legacy of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. on MLK weekend while I was in college. It's the place that's football crowd  booed the very mention of the office of the presidency, a show of disrespect for Barack Obama, during the commissioning of new ROTC grads during Military Appreciation Day two seasons ago.

And as Clemson student A.D. Carson points out, it's a place that was literally built on the legacy of white oppression. John C. Calhoun, whose famed plantation "Fort Hill" is the site of Clemson's campus, owned his share of slaves. And when the school was built in the late 1800s, it relied on the forced labor of black convicts, many of whom served sentences unjustly applied to consign them to bondage in the wake of emancipation.

Carson's new campaign, "See the Stripes," which he wrote about here a few days ago, seeks to promote a conversation about the legacy that Clemson likes to sweep under the rug. Carson's built a coalition of people interested in this kind of reconciliation, not because the Clemson of today is a racist, murderous institution, but because it's good and fair and noble to acknowledge the wounds of the past.

In seeking to promote this conversation, Carson's seized on the concept of stripes. As the video he skillfully produced makes clear, this was not an arbitrary choice. Slaves and forced convict laborers suffered through the stripes that came from lashes out of angry racist whips. Those lashes are wounds, and Carson believes Clemson would rather pretend the wounds do not exist.

He's also seized on the concept of "solid orange," Clemson's less-than-creative marketing campaign that asks fans to wear orange on Fridays and to all Clemson events. In symbolic fashion, Carson asks what a Tiger would be if he was really solid orange. Would a tiger be a tiger without its stripes? It's his way of asking, "Would Clemson be Clemson without the pain upon which it was built."

Let's be clear - there's nothing particularly menacing about Carson's campaign. It's certainly an uncomfortable topic for racists in the upstate of South Carolina, who will undoubtedly be angry at that uppity boy trying to make Clemson look bad. But in general, Carson's received strong support from the black community at Clemson and some of the more evolved members of the white community. His campaign seeks a difficult goal in places like Clemson - to unite all thinking people for a real conversation about the white-washing of history the people of Clemson feel is necessary for preserving Clemson's legacy.

You would think that a student taking the initiative to produce some excellent content and stir a thoughtful conversation about race would be well-received by the faculty of a university with the stated goal of landing itself in the country's top 20. You would think that Clemson, which apparently dedicates itself to racial understanding, would employ professors who foster the kind of creativity and moxie exhibited by Carson.

You'd be wrong.

Right-wing nutjob David Woodard just called Carson a fascist.

In an interview with Campus Reform, Woodard said:

“It’s fascism. It’s looking at things only through racial lenses and not seeing anything else when in fact there is no racism associated with this,”
I'd like a more detailed explanation from Woodard, who apparently is entrusted with teaching people about political science, how an inclusive campaign to ask questions about the white-washing of Clemson's racial reality remotely relates to the 20th century authoritarian regimes of Italy and Germany.

Woodard should issue an immediate apology to Carson and to all students, faculty, and alumni who support the See Your Stripes campaign and who support general calls for Clemson to own the horrid nature of its past.

Woodard, of course, is unlikely to do such a thing. After all, he's the "Thurmond" - yes, that Thurmond - Professor of Political Science. In his book, The New Southern Politics, Woodard is like a child gushing with love and adoration for the "culture" of the South, which he sees as most distinctive in comparison to the country at large. Not surprisingly, he also wrote a biography of Ronald Reagan, and has consulted for such venerable voices on the issue of race as: Senator Jim DeMint (R-SC), Senator Lindsey Graham (R-SC), Former Congressman Gresham Barrett (R-SC), Congressman Trey Gowdy (R-SC), and Congressman Jeff Duncan (R-SC).

Want an easy way of knowing that the "stripes" of history still aren't history? It's when your university employs a professor who attempts to stomp out a conversation on race by comparing the black student who started that conversation to murderous political regimes of the 20th century.

Originally posted to Coby DuBose on Criminal Injustice, Race, and Poverty on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 10:11 PM PDT.

Also republished by Barriers and Bridges, Black Kos community, and White Privilege Working Group.

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Comment Preferences

  •  UGH!! (71+ / 0-)

    That was one of my favorite diaries of this past week. The diary and video were very well-written and thoughtful. How disgusting that a freaking professor would reply with the exact opposite of that thoughtfulness.

    One of the little-known secrets among white folks in America is that many white university professors are racist as hell and actually rather conservative. I had more than one history professor of color mention that the idea that universities are filled with a bunch of liberal professors is ludicrous. They knew better.

    Two hundred fifty years of slavery. Ninety years of Jim Crow. Sixty years of separate but equal. Thirty-five years of racist housing policy. Until we reckon with our compounding moral debts, America will never be whole. - Ta-Nehisi Coates

    by moviemeister76 on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 10:36:07 PM PDT

  •  Thank You - N/T (7+ / 0-)

    "Upward, not Northward" - Flatland, by EA Abbott

    by linkage on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 10:52:13 PM PDT

  •  I see that also on "Campus Reform" (19+ / 0-)

    one of the top "news" stories is entitled "Conservative students must get active in the fight against Universities' liberal agenda."

    Higher Ground! That's what we deserve. And that's what we demand! -Rev. Barber

    by sfinx on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 10:55:55 PM PDT

  •  Well, the professor has a point. The fascists, (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    arlene, RiveroftheWest

    like many other wanna-be tyrants, relied on identifying some external threat to justify making their own subjects secure and safe.
    Fact is that it is not possible to separate/segregate one segment of a population without affecting the whole. It's like picking the brown beans or the white out of a pot--the remainder is segregated, as well. The only difference, when it comes to people, is that some people are easily convinced that an "exclusive" community or enclave is a good thing.

    http://likethedew.com/...

    What many people also don't realize is that a shared guilt, even for a common history with which the current generation has no real connection, is a potent glue. An association bound by the guilt that comes from even mild misbehavior, such as is commonly engaged in under the category of "hazing," is a cheap way to keep people in line. Think of Skull and Bones at Yale. The "select" participate in some disgusting acts which they are then embarrassed to relate and this shared secret guilt keeps them in the brotherhood.
    In the Catholic religion original sin serves the same purpose. Relief from the guilt is what presumably unites the "saved."

    Associated by guilt. That's what all those members of homeowners' associations are -- the guilt that comes from wanting to be exceptional and exclusive, shutting their own kind out for no particular reason other than it's what like-minded people do. Fear of the stranger has always kept youngsters close to home for parents to exploit without the young knowing, except in the most blatant and injurious cases, what's going on.
    Residential segregation is not a happenstance. Neither was white flight. Whites were prompted to relocate into more costly and distant enclaves so somebody could pick up urban real estate cheaply and turn a profit. Money makes it possible to exploit people without them knowing whose doing them wrong. It's only much later that the deprivation becomes obvious.
    The Tea Party people have a legitimate gripe. They've been subject to legal thefts. They just don't know who's responsible for ripping them off. Their exploiters would like them to think it's people who are materially even worse off.

    When Dubya said "we are an ownership society," he spoke true. What he didn't elaborate is that the ownership of material assets, especially houses, is not only supposed to compensate for the systemic deprivation of individual rights, but imposes financial obligations that are difficult to shake.
    Alan Greenspan in about 1992 revealed the agenda when he explained that removing the tax on the capital gains from the sale of a home was designed to promote the "liberation" of American's real assets "for the market." In other words, after the churning of raw land for suburban development led to financial collapse, homeownership was to be next. Of course, the only problem with that is how to persuade people to move. Fear works great because it leaves the impression that concern for their welfare motivated it.

    With guilt and fear in their corner, the middlemen can't lose.

    Finally, the Cons always accuse others of what they are doing themselves. I think it's because they are people who see themselves reflected in other people, like Narcissus, and do not recognize themselves. They idolize and despise as a matter of reflex.

    •  I disagree with your beginning. (21+ / 0-)

      Most of the text I agree with.  Fascists didn't demonize an external threat.  They demonized an 'internal' threat, pretending it was more powerful and influential than it actually was, and using racist and dehumanizing language to do so.

      That is nothing near what this thoughtful youth is doing.  The professor has no 'point' at all.

      The business of Nations is never morality. Moral stories live only through people.

      by tecampbell on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 11:39:34 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Agreed (14+ / 0-)

        And even though as a political scientist, he probably feels he has the ability/right to do it, even an attempt to separate the concept of fascism from the practical realities of fascism (the violence, ethnic cleansing, etc) is wrong in this context.

        When he's speaking about a student at his university, and comparing that student's campaign to fascism, he implies all of the nastiness that came with fascism.

        I take his "point" to be that "viewing everything through a purely racial lens" is fascism. This is insulting principally, but not only, because it implies that this situation shouldn't be viewed through a racial lens. When it's perfectly legitimate to view Clemson's history through a racial lens.

        In addition, he strawmans the shit out of the kid's campaign. Yes, it's true that "solid orange" is not meant to be racist. So what? The kid's campaign is not that solid orange is racist. It's that solid orange is a good metaphor for taking the stripes off of the tiger, which is itself a good metaphor for Clemson's white-washing (or orange-washing!) its own history, removing those stripes.

        It's a goddamn metaphor for the desire of some people to avert the eyes of the public from the ugly marks on their history. And this professor took that metaphor, approached it as if the student's intent was to say that the solid orange initiative was racist, then accused that student of being somewhat similar to Nazi Germany for doing so.

        Even if we accept this professor's ridiculous strawman at face value, and we assume that the kid is trying to argue for the university to abandon solid orange because it's racist, only in the most loosely conceived, most offensively contrived theoretical conception of the term "fascism" could you find anything remotely similar about the two situations.

        If nothing else, this professor should be shamed into isolation for his absurd attempt to mischaracterize what's an otherwise positive movement. Or else he's too stupid to understand the metaphor used by Carson.

        "We forward in this generation, triumphantly."

        by Grizzard on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 11:54:44 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Just to make sure, (10+ / 0-)

          I disagreed with the beginning of Hannah's post, not the diary itself.

          Good job and thank you.  

          I can't imagine being a student subjected to this professor.  I would walk out.

          The business of Nations is never morality. Moral stories live only through people.

          by tecampbell on Sat Aug 23, 2014 at 12:04:46 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Yes, I understand (19+ / 0-)

            I'm not sure how black students at Clemson do it.

            The most prominent statue on campus, and the Hall featured in all of the pictures, is named after Ben Tillman, who is known perhaps most for his "lynching pledge," that he would personally lead the lynch mob against "any Negro who assaults a white woman."

            I understand the theory that we have to draw the line somewhere, or we'll be tearing everything down and re-naming everything. But Ben Tillman was a man who lived after slavery yet worked his ass off to promote the heinous murder of black people. He was a terrorist. He is a major part of the reason why you see those postcards with dead black men hanging from trees and little kids smiling.

            And Clemson's treatment of him is not as an artifact of history, but rather, as a venerable founding father.

            More insulting is that they house "education" classes in his hall. If I was a young black man or woman who wanted to go into teaching and I had to walk past his statue every day, it would make me so fucking livid I wouldn't be able to focus on anything.

            I'd prefer shitty old, white fogies like this professor to lead the charge against the celebration of lynchers. But if they're not going to have integrity, they should at least shut the fuck up. Or go write another biography of a dead Republican president.

            "We forward in this generation, triumphantly."

            by Grizzard on Sat Aug 23, 2014 at 12:13:33 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  What I'd say in addition is that (5+ / 0-)

              "What you do to the least of these, you do to me," is not an expression of empathy, but an expression of fact that whatever aggression is being visited on one person, someone/anyone else is next.

              The economic deprivation of the last forty years is not a happenstance. It is the result of a determination that "if they want to be equal, let them be equally deprived."

              The old order felt threatened and had to recoup. The philosophical justification for a striated society as being necessary to prompt some to aspire to success at the top is bogus and history has proved as much. It is obvious to almost anyone looking with an objective eye that the one percent are an incompetent predatory lot.  Which the denizens of that company might even readily admit were the predator mode in humans not suspect. After all, organisms that can communicate their needs and provide compensation should not be relying on the primitive mode of the predator and the scavenger to sustain them. So they call it "competition" -- one of the primary euphemisms of the modern age.

            •  Great video (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              BeninSC, chipdukes

              And Clemson should be proactive in addressing the past. But, there isn't a single person that will be sitting in Death Valley this season who had anything to do with Slavery.
              Now, let me correct you on your own errors. Yes, the main building on campus is named after Ben Tillman who was a Democrat born from the Reconstruction years. There is also one on the USC campus. Your error lies in that there is no statue of him on campus. The statue in front of the building is of Thomas G Clemson. Since you didn't know that, I will educate you with the name of THE MAIN CAMPUS entrance that circles Clemson's statue. It is the Harvey Gantt Circle, named after the first African American student at Clemson. His entry into the university was called "Integration with Dignity" and ALL Clemson students and Americans should be proud of that compared to what happened at other schools during that time.
              Most of the other Memorials and statues on campus celebrate our students who served in the military.
              Clemson has established many programs for under represented students including the Call Me Mister Program (praised by Oprah), CONNECTIONS - Peer mentoring, MANRRS — Minorities in Agricultural, Natural Resources and Related Sciences, and PEER Mentoring. You mentioned also that the President was booed during a commissioning ceremony and you're right. It was wrong and the President Barker immediately sent a letter to all Alumni. Alums like me were embarrassed but the 1st Amendment protects bad taste too. I've also heard sighs for other leaders too.
              Finally, you said that you don't know how black students do it. Well, I would walk by Tillman Hall everyday and know that I'm pissing him off. I would walk by Fort Hill and be thankful for the sacrifices of those that were slaves and the fact that the old plantation has been replaced by a place where I am free to get an education and follow my own dreams.
              I doubt looking for stripes will do a thing for that dream.    

            •  Get your facts straight (0+ / 0-)

              If you want to be taken seriously, get your facts straight. There is no statue of Benjamin Tillman on the Clemson campus...PERIOD. There is a statue of Thomas Greene Clemson, the founder of the University, in front of Tillman Hall. Tillman Hall only bears the name of Ben Tillman because he negotiated with a hostile General Assembly to accept the bequest of Clemson in order to establish an agricultural and mechanical college in NW South Carolina. There is no evidence that the naming of this building was related to ANYTHING but his role in the establishment of Clemson College. For that matter, the main building at Winthrop University bears the same name, named for the same man. Where is the outrage there?

              •  While the statue is of Clemson, it is (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                kfunk937

                understandable that people might think it was of the person for whom the building was named. And, indeed, the clemsonwiki says this:

                In front of the building is a statue of Thomas Green Clemson. It is named for Benjamin Ryan Tillman, governor of South Carolina 1890-1895, US Senator 1895-1918, Life Trustee of Clemson Agricultural College 1888-1918.
                I do think that clemsonwiki article is unclear, and that the person who edited it may have intended the sentence to refer to the building, itself, and not the statue. But the point is that it is an understandable confusion. For anyone who seeks fairness and balance in examining an argument.

                Tillman's identity as a racist and a murder is well documented (here and here, for example), and his embrace by any educational institution should be criticized until every monument to him is more appropriately renamed, for someone who believed in and performed good acts. Tillman did not.

                Finally, it is hardly likely that someone, in an article about patent racism at Clemson, would address every other location in the world where a peripherally named racist (in the diary, above) was also honored. I wouldn't do it, I don't know many who would. If you want to criticize Winthrop's inappropriate honoring of Tillman, by all means write the diary! If it is good and I see it, I will recommend it.

                "The opposite of war isn't peace, it's CREATION." _ Jonathan Larson, RENT -9.62, -9.13

                by BeninSC on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 06:21:26 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Not for a student. (0+ / 0-)

                  Grizzard claims that he went to Clemson. Therefore, reading wiki would not be something I would expect a former student to do.

                  •  I did not say that the diarist got the information (0+ / 0-)

                    from the wiki. I do not know where that statement came from.

                     I said that is what the wiki said, which it is. And, I said that it seems reasonable to me that someone might think a statue in front of a named building was of the person for whom the building was named. I realize that reading the name off the statue would give correct information, but I saw, and indeed, still see no reason to assume that every Clemson student has done that.

                    I did not attend Clemson, but I can assure you I never read the information on every statue at my alma mater. And my school is much smaller than Clemson.

                    "The opposite of war isn't peace, it's CREATION." _ Jonathan Larson, RENT -9.62, -9.13

                    by BeninSC on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 06:31:55 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  When everyone calls a statue ... (0+ / 0-)

                      Old Green Tom and since it is at a very prominent position on campus, I would not expect a student that went to Clemson to not know the name or have to go to Wiki to find out. It is a landmark on the Clemson campus.

                      One thing that people also should know is that the landscaped circle around Old Green Tom (and in front of Tillman Hall)  is called Gantt circle after Harvey Gantt - Clemson's first African American student who visits regularly.

                      Again, I'm all for the discussion but Clemson is not racist because someone does not like the names on a few buildings. It's also not racist because it was built on an old plantation. If these are the bases for racism, then every street, town and named building in the US built before the 70s will have to be torn down. THE PROBLEM IS THAT WE CANNOT APPLY TODAY'S MORALS ON THE PAST AND ITS PEOPLE.  

                      Finally, I read about the "Live the Dream" party and the University took quick action. That happened in 2006. Grizzard also implied that the booing during the commissioning ceremony was racial. Why? Disrespectful? Yes, to the oath takers.

                      •  I am not informed about Clemson, so I do not know (0+ / 0-)

                        what things are called. And again, I did not say that Grizzard went to the Clemson wiki. I went there, not knowing. I have never heard of 'Old Green Tom,' nor, before now, seen it referenced in this comment thread. I am not disputing that it's so. I believe you.

                        As I said, there are a few statues at my alma mater. At the moment I cannot think of the names of a single one of the persons for whom they were named, nor any nicknames they may have had, nor how commonly appreciated those were. I don't think they had anything to do with my education, whether they were part of my educational heritage or not, so I just did not pay attention. If others did, that is fine, too. Of course, our class graduated in 1975, so perhaps mine isn't the only faded memory. I am sorry to say that our class was made up almost exclusively by white MALES. The school only became co-ed the year after me. Now, thank GOODNESS, it is a great deal more diverse! That is a fine thing.

                        Do you really think that every street, town and named building before the 1970's has racist overtones? I have not heard Grizzard or anyone else ever make that argument. For that matter, I did not read Grizzard or anyone else saying any buildings should be torn down. Why wouldn't simply changing the names suffice? Why would they have to be destroyed? That isn't clear to me at all.

                        Today's morals are applied to the past all the time, and our not wanting it to be so won't change it. Sports teams have names regarded as derogatory to our native citizens. I am not a native citizen, so it is not for me to speak for them. But I must say that I do not question that a great many racists rally around those team names, where before they were not invested in them at all. I am perfectly fine with those names being changed. Just as I am fine with symbols not previously acknowledged to be racist now being removed because their continued presence certainly can make a racist statement.

                        Values change and evolve, with our species. There is no stopping it, there is no wishing it away. Why is it important NOW to honor people (in an on-going way) who were clearly racist even then? Tillman died in 1918. You think removing his statues from positions of prominence in 2014 will offend his contemporaries? They will turn over in their graves? What?

                        Donald Sterling, former owner of the Los Angeles Clippers, was removed from his position of ownership for flagrantly racist statements. He was born in 1934, when many things now acknowledged to be racist were not consistently thought to be so, then. If we should not apply today's morals to the past and its people, should Donald Sterling have been given a 'pass' for his bigoted remarks? I am trying to get a clearer sense about when we should and shouldn't. Though, as I say, I don't think society is going to change about this, whether you and I achieve consensus in this discussion or not.

                        "The opposite of war isn't peace, it's CREATION." _ Jonathan Larson, RENT -9.62, -9.13

                        by BeninSC on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 12:58:01 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

        •  excellent reply, Grizzard. the notion that... (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          jrooth, NoBlueSkies

          Carson's brilliant presentation can in any way be equated to fascism, is preposterous.

          I missed Carson's diary, but have tipped and rec'd it, thanks to you.

        •  Professor Is Calling Antebellum South "Fascist?" (0+ / 0-)

          I mean using his own standard and words, he just called the antibellum south Fascist.

          And simply talking about the history of Fascism is not the same as Fascism.

          Men are so necessarily mad, that not to be mad would amount to another form of madness. -Pascal

          by bernardpliers on Sat Aug 23, 2014 at 08:15:49 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Fascist probably ate ice cream (6+ / 0-)

      Everyone who eats ice cream is not a Fascist.

      It is not the definition of the word, plain and simple.

      Words have meanings.

      Learn them.

      Relying on an external threat is a characteristic of almost ALL forms of government, including our own.

      The professor does not have a point.  He is an idiot.

  •  The past is not really past (14+ / 0-)

    William Faulkner said, "The University of Mississippi does a good job of turning Mississippi teenagers into Mississippi adults."  Clemson apparently is in the same business in South Carolina.

    Time was that there was a push to make graduates more nearly "universal" if they went to a "university."  But with various corporations buying chairs to promote specific agendas, academic truth-seeking is now as endangered as it was before 1960.  

    Southern racists are good at calling attention to the obvious.  Yet the problem exists in many universities where corporate money promotes propaganda instead of honest scholarship.

    I'm from Johnson City.

    by Al Fondy on Sat Aug 23, 2014 at 01:55:25 AM PDT

  •  Fascism (17+ / 0-)
    "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."
    Here Mr. Woodard, let me help you out.

    Fascism:

    a way of organizing a society in which a government ruled by a dictator controls the lives of the people and in which people are not allowed to disagree with the government
    -Merriam Webster.

    Intellectual discourse in not Fascism.

    What is up with all these right wing knuckle draggers not being able to spell or understand the most basic dictionary definitions of words?

    It makes it really difficult to have a conversation when one side is just making up definitions of words.

  •  Well, the culture of the South is 'distinctive' (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    marina, PsychoSavannah, gffish

    I grant that.

  •  You'd be amazed how many South Carolinians (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SC Lib, a2nite, catwho, gffish, roadbear

    can't properly identify the state where Death Valley is located.

    Or, they know its location better than everyone else. :)

  •  We missed our chance (4+ / 0-)

    South Carolina has been a pain in the ass since the fucking REVOLUTION.

    The lunatics there have babbled about secession as far back as 1829 -the Feds imported Fort Sumter from New Hampshire one shipload of rocks at a time on an attempt to control SC's access to shipping.

    When Sherman trashed the whole area in 1865, they shudda divided the place in half and made Georgia and North Carolina responsible for keeping the crazy bastards under control as the price for re-admission to the Union.

    "Ronald Reagan is DEAD! His policies live on but we're doing something about THAT!"

    by leftykook on Sat Aug 23, 2014 at 04:45:00 AM PDT

  •  The sad thing is... (4+ / 0-)

    most people won't care about this as long as Dabo can get the Tigers to a high-level bowl every year.

    It's as valid a discussion as having the Confederate flag on the State House grounds or if dredging the harbor in Charleston to allow larger ships in is good for business. Or if Princess Nimrata of Crazytown is fit to lead(she isn't).

    That kind of discussion should be encouraged on a college campus, especially Clemson's. That professor should be ashamed, but he won't be.

    Love the tiger stripes campaign though. Hope it catches on.

    Go Tigers.

    "I chose to change facts, reality, and the meaning of words, in order to make a much larger point." - Paul Ryan John Oliver

    by SC Lib on Sat Aug 23, 2014 at 04:46:06 AM PDT

  •  so much for liberal professors brainwashing the (6+ / 0-)

    youth

  •  That quote... (3+ / 0-)

    ...is specifically about the Clemson mascot, not about the entire "stripes" campaign, as far as I can tell.

    The “Solid Orange” tradition stems from Clemson students, alumni, faculty, and fans wearing the color orange on Fridays as an outward display of Tiger pride. However, for many students, the tradition is also about a bigger ideal and mentality.

    “I don’t believe that the slogan of the athletic department on campus in any way ‘covers up’ or ‘paints over’ the history of Clemson’s founders and the land upon which the university sits,” Nick James, Chairman of Clemson Young Americans for Freedom, told Campus Reform. “Solid Orange is about the family of Clemson, it’s about equality. Everyone here has a common purpose, a common goal.”

    James said “Solid Orange” was more of a marketing strategy to create a unified atmosphere for game days. Clemson’s school colors are orange and purple, with orange being the primary color.

    “We live not in the times of slavery, we live in the times of diversity,” James said.

    Still, Carson claims that Clemson is “built on a legacy of slavery, sharecropping and convict labor, by slave owners, supremacists and segregationists.”

    Dr. J. David Woodard, a political science professor at Clemson, disputed any claims that “Solid Orange” could be construed as racist.

    “It’s fascism. It’s looking at things only through racial lenses and not seeing anything else when in fact there is no racism associated with this,” Woodard told Campus Reform.

    The "fascism" does not refer to the campaign itself. It seems to refer specifically to [Woodard's belief that] Carson is attempting to bully the Clemson community into altering their mascot and team colors, despite there being nothing racist or offensive about the team mascot/colors.

    (-5.50,-6.67): Left Libertarian
    Leadership doesn't mean taking a straw poll and then just throwing up your hands. -Jyrinx

    by Sparhawk on Sat Aug 23, 2014 at 05:14:44 AM PDT

  •  Why should the professor be fired for saying (6+ / 0-)

    his opinion about the campaign?

    Sure, it's a wrong-headed and retrograde and vile opinion.

    But he has a right to express it.  Just as the brave student who has organized the "See the Stripes" campaign, has a right to organize and express his opinions.

    There are many here who got up in arms over the rescinding of a job offer by the University of Illinois to a professor who expressed vile opinions about Jews and Israel.  Outraged at the way U I punished the guy for expressing his opinions (a way that was incendiary and uncivil and antisemitic, to be sure).

    But it seems that in some cases, some opinions deserve to be punished by firing or the loss of a job (?)

    That's one more thing to add to my long list of small problems. --my son, age 10

    by concernedamerican on Sat Aug 23, 2014 at 05:38:41 AM PDT

  •  Academic freedom (8+ / 0-)

    ...is the freedom to be academically stupid.

    Clemson is and has always been on a tight leash by the politicians in Columbia.  Academic freedom only exists for people like Woodard.

    Of course my opinion might be wrong.  Does the undergraduate or graduate curriculum at Clemson include a course on the labor history of the South?  Is there any mention in any of the history courses about the eight people killed by union goons in Honea Path (not that far from Clemson) during the textile strkie in the 1930s?  Is there any discussion about why upstate South Carolina workers are so hostile to labor unions even though one of the champions of labor unions, Olin D. Johnston, was US Senator during the 1950s?  (Johnston, however, was a segregationist as well.)

    Is there the consciousness that next to Harry Truman, James F. Byrnes is the person most responsible for the dropping of nuclear bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki?

    Hang in there, See the Stripes folks.  Ignore the slurs from the swamp salesmen.  Ignore the gripes from the grifters.  South Carolina needs to face up to the complex reality of its past instead of living in the childish stories created by Thomas Dixon Jr. and William Gilmore Simms.

    I'm proud of y'all.

    50 states, 210 media market, 435 Congressional Districts, 3080 counties, 192,480 precincts

    by TarheelDem on Sat Aug 23, 2014 at 05:55:38 AM PDT

  •  If we complain about liberal professors ... (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Joy of Fishes, Catte Nappe, poco, cai, kfunk937

    being fired for their beliefs, we shouldn't call for the firing of conservatives.

  •  The fight is hard (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    gffish

    Those poor ole' white folks just can't take it. They just have to fight back with all the vitriol from the past, 'cause donchaknow - the past is when they had all the power, control, and hate over others who didn't look like those poor ole' white folks.  

    The professor is exposed. That's a good thing. The dialogue keeps happening, that's a good thing.  But, damn, this fight is so hard against the small minded, but fight we all must.  

    Excellent diary.  

  •  Since conservatives always project, that same s... (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Catte Nappe, gffish, roadbear, starduster

    Since conservatives always project, that same student should inform the professor that he will also be making a parallel study of projection among conservatives in politics and the media, using the professor's own reaction as exhibit one.

    Remember: when a conservative or a Republican says someone is "doing X" or that some project or tactic "is X", it's usually because they themselves ARE "X" or are already themselves "doing X". They are, as a group, unable to measure others except by what they see in themselves, and as a body see others as like themselves. They're not capable of understanding that other people are different than them, which is *why* they always project their own deficiencies onto others and the actions of others.

    That's also why they never understand what they're really revealing with their own reactions. I wish the politicians and pundits on our side better understood this. It would make responding to those accusations a LOT easier.

  •  I'm with you on everything except for (7+ / 0-)

    saying he should be fired. He deserves strong and persistent push-back, and if he's not yet tenured then his apparent complete ignorance of what fascism really is should probably disqualify him from becoming tenured. But crappy as his views are, the general principle of academic freedom is more important than punishing individual abuses of that freedom.

    "With all this manure around, there has to be a pony somewhere!" - Count Piotr Vorkosigan

    by jrooth on Sat Aug 23, 2014 at 07:47:04 AM PDT

    •  I guess it depends on the specifics, but most (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      catwho, jrooth, gffish, roadbear, kfunk937

      places have specific grounds for dismissing tenured faculty which include things like intellectual dishonesty, acts of discrimination, incompetence, etc.  However, I doubt that Clemson has any desire to go down that path.

      In the mean time, the rest of the academic community can "starve him out."  Reject outright his academic publications.  Don't reference his work.  Don't let him present at conferences or symposia.  He deserves the same treatment that is given to other discredited kooks and cranks.

      •  Of course he won't be fired (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Miggles, gffish, kfunk937

        He's old as dirt. I'm sure he's as tenured as tenured can be.

        I still think it's worth acknowledging that these kinds of intellectually dishonest statements about well-meaning students are precisely the kinds of things that should disqualify a professor from professing.

        I agree that in a sane world, the answer would be to starve him out. Although at this point it seems that's already happened. He's been relegated to "duty" as a right-wing "consultant." Of course he did get a publishing company to publish yet another version of his..."fair" version of the history of Southern politics.

        "We forward in this generation, triumphantly."

        by Grizzard on Sat Aug 23, 2014 at 09:13:52 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Re (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        kfunk937, nextstep
        In the mean time, the rest of the academic community can "starve him out."  Reject outright his academic publications.  Don't reference his work.  Don't let him present at conferences or symposia.  He deserves the same treatment that is given to other discredited kooks and cranks.
        His work either has value or it doesn't.

        If it doesn't, there is no need for any such campaign against him: his work will die on its own.

        If it does have value, why throw it away exactly?

        (-5.50,-6.67): Left Libertarian
        Leadership doesn't mean taking a straw poll and then just throwing up your hands. -Jyrinx

        by Sparhawk on Sat Aug 23, 2014 at 02:38:20 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Well, his most recent outburst pretty clearly (0+ / 0-)

          states the lack of value in his work in a setting based on rational thought and discourse (university).  Do you seriously think that there is some niche of political science academia where fascism includes acts of tolerance???  I am simply saying that the rest of this guy's academic peers should know exactly who they are dealing with now and in turn consider with the utmost skepticism (or better outright reject) anything he says.

    •  Academic freedom doesn't mean... (0+ / 0-)

      ...freedom to be incompetent.

  •  I thought fascism had something to do with (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ssgbryan

    the merging of corporations and the state, not "lenses" or particular points of view. I don't know who David Woodward is, but he is certainly not an educated man.

    "You can die for Freedom, you just can't exercise it"

    by shmuelman on Sat Aug 23, 2014 at 07:50:46 AM PDT

    •  Actually (0+ / 0-)

      It's about bundling sticks together and binding them to make a single stick stronger than one stick or even stronger than the absolute sum of those sticks as separate sticks.

      Look at American money and buildings. There are fasces all over them.  And "E Pluribus Unum", or words to that non-effect.

      But that's not the fascism any of us thinks about any more. Because that symbol and the ancient terminology for it was used by a more recent regime in a foreign land (closer to the one where it was invented) to incite people to join in an oppressive criminal enterprise that aligned itself with genocidal fanatics.

      So it's not possible to describe the "good kind" of fascism as fascism any more, and since there are professional muckrakers using the term deliberately to refer to people who have nothing to do with the "bad kind", it's losing all of its meaning.

      And college professors are not infallible. Some aren't even that smart. So for this one to use that word as a cliche' when he's upset is understandable, if unforgivable.

  •  Thank God. If it's not too late, (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jrooth, Another Grizzle, cai

    this is a movement that needs to grow.

    there are some seriously unregenerate bastards wanting to create a full-scale race war (majority of white people trying to murder majority of black people and vice versa) in this country. This kind of movement is a good counter to that poisonous crap.

    That's not to say coalition movements of white and black people together are the only useful kinds of action.

    I'm all for the movements and actions where I'm not welcome because I'm white--there's one going on in Annapolis this weekend, and I've been told I'm not wanted there, and you know what? That is perfectly fine with me. Just as it's fine with me that women march without men during Take Back the Night.

    But this is really needed.

    A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame/Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name/Mother of Exiles.

    by SouthernLiberalinMD on Sat Aug 23, 2014 at 07:52:43 AM PDT

  •  But, as a history student, you must surely (0+ / 0-)

    know, for example, that the post 1970 (and post Voting Rights Act and the fact that Blacks would be voting in numbers) Strom Thurmond, wasn't quite the same as the 1940s,50s and 60s Thurmond. He even supported the MLK national holiday.

    So -- how do you approach Thurmond?
    Do you never forget or forgive "early Strom"?

    Do you do what Democrats do with Robert Byrd when they  
    forget that he was not merely in the KKK, but an official of the Klan who recruited others into the fold?

    Or do you something really useful and show that even a staunch anti-civil rights segregationist like Thurmond could start walking down a better road?

    That last might be really good -- and encouraging -- for Clemson.  If Thurmond could walk, even  tentatively, in that direction, just about anybody can.

    LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

    by dinotrac on Sat Aug 23, 2014 at 08:05:52 AM PDT

    •  Give me a freaking break (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      burlydee, Miggles, Munchkn, gffish, roadbear

      Strom Thurmond held on until the absolute last second he could. He "changed" so much that until the day he died, he failed to acknowledge the black daughter he made when he raped that young woman's daughter.

      The fact that he "evolved" enough to remain in office is worthless. I give not a single shit that he threw a crumb to anyone on the issue of MLK day after he spent his entire career fighting civil rights. This was not a change of heart. It was an understanding that he had lost.

      And Thurmond is the least of my concern. How about erecting statues to known domestic terrorist Ben Tillman? A guy famous for his connection to lynching?

      "We forward in this generation, triumphantly."

      by Grizzard on Sat Aug 23, 2014 at 08:40:11 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  The same could be said of Robert Byrd, if you (0+ / 0-)

        wanted to say it.  

        After all, we are never able to get inside somebody's head or heart.

        Nasty way to look at the world, though.

        LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

        by dinotrac on Sat Aug 23, 2014 at 09:17:39 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I'm sorry (0+ / 0-)

          but I won't concede your point that my unwillingness to give lifelong racist and segregationist the benefit of the doubt is a "nasty" way to look at the world.

          I'm all for being nice and civil and stuff, but I'm tempted to tell you where to shove the passive aggressive moralism you're throwing my way here.

          "We forward in this generation, triumphantly."

          by Grizzard on Sat Aug 23, 2014 at 09:20:56 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  No passive aggressive moralism. (0+ / 0-)

            Would it be more to your liking for mte to tell you that I presume people who are so (biasedly) judgmental and negative tend to be real pricks?

            LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

            by dinotrac on Sat Aug 23, 2014 at 10:10:45 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  Fascism is just a Fox engendered word (0+ / 0-)

    that a Fox trained political scientist apparently knows nothing about. He is more a consultant than scholar.
    His profile; all heavy repug politics:

    "David Woodard has been teaching political science at Clemson University since 1983. Before that he taught at Auburn University for two years. He is the author or co-author of seven books including THE NEW SOUTHERN POLITICS (2013), and RONALD REAGAN: A BIOGRAPHY (2012). In addition he is a political consultant for Republican candidates. Former clients includ: Senator Jim DeMint (R-SC), Senator Lindsey Graham (R-SC), Former Congressman Gresham Barrett (R-SC), Congressman Trey Gowdy (R-SC), and Congressman Jeff Duncan (R-SC)."

    An aside, Clemson is renown for football. The team, or at least the first 40 positions are 80% black. Without the blacks Clemson would be defeated by VMI every year. Like it used to be.

    And I am Kilrain of the 20th Maine. And I damn all gentlemen. Whose only worth is their father's name And the sweat of a workin' man Steve Earle - Dixieland

    by shigeru on Sat Aug 23, 2014 at 08:12:56 AM PDT

  •  as a former professor at Clemson (12+ / 0-)

    I am disgusted by the comments of David Woodard.  This is one more illustration of the fact we are NOT over racism by any degree.

    I am upset over the whole situation in Furguson, MO.  But, on the other hand it has revealed how much hatred is still repressed by white people - especially those in their 60-70's (my generation) who should know better having been eyewitnesses to the Civil Rights battles of the late 50 and early 60's.

    Protestations aside, the southern strategy still exists in the white south (I live here and know) and it appears to be the one unifying factor for the republican party.  What can they do once they no longer have Obama to kick around?  It certainly can't be governing since they haven't done that in years.

    •  Looting -- aka "privatization", "reform", (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      kfunk937

      "public-private partnerships" et al.  (Credit to a commenter at Naked Capitalism for this insight.)

      Also, attempted theocracy, aka interfering in women's health care.

      © cai Visit 350.org to join the fight against global warming.

      by cai on Sat Aug 23, 2014 at 09:57:12 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  The problem is that they DO know better... (0+ / 0-)

      ...but just don't care. These are the people that were on the wrong side of those Civil Rights battles, and resent that "their side" didn't win. They think that segregated schools and "sundown towns" and poll taxes should all be brought back.

  •  who's (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    kfunk937

    the real fascist here.... guy with job for life in the power structure, or student....

    Warning - some snark may be above‽ (-9.50; -7.03)‽ eState4Column5©2013 "If we appear to seek the unattainable, then let it be known that we do so to avoid the unimaginable." (@eState4Column5)

    by annieli on Sat Aug 23, 2014 at 09:19:47 AM PDT

  •  Fascism is not this, Woodard is ignorant professor (4+ / 0-)

    But I guess he never met or read Prof George Mosse or any other expert on Fascism, esp Mosse who lived through it in his youth.

    My Political Science association should school him on proper use of political science terms.

    idiot.

    They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither safety nor liberty~Ben Franklin

    by RWN on Sat Aug 23, 2014 at 09:26:25 AM PDT

  •  I think it's about time to write (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    roadbear, EdSF, procrastn8

    an extended piece on the use of the word "fascism"...

    because I am so sick and tired of conservative whiners using that word to the point where its' meaning because meaningless.

  •  Dear Professor Woodard, (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    gffish, roadbear, kfunk937

    I don't think that word means what you think it means.

    Sincerely,
    Someone With Access to a Dictionary

    "Stories about bacon should be uplifting" - Oberon

    by bnasley on Sat Aug 23, 2014 at 10:50:54 AM PDT

  •  That's okay, at Butler University in Indianapolis (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    BeninSC, Clytemnestra

    a black female professor asked her wealthy, white students to consider - just...consider - what it might be like to walk in the shoes of a poor, black man or woman.

    The result?  A student writes a disingenuous hit piece for the College Fix that results in threats of rape and murder for the professor in question.

    Stay classy, butt-hurt rich white racists.

    P.S.-- One doesn't have to be poor to fall into the "white trash category."  Just sayin'.

  •  Making it up as you go along (0+ / 0-)

    He wants to be in the land of cotton
    Where the meaning of fascism is forgotten

  •  Great Diary! (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Another Grizzle, kfunk937

    One thing that Mr. Woodward must surely know is that Fascism always emanates from power, no exceptions. Of course Mr Woodward speaks from a position of Power, and our young hero A.D. Carson has only a pen, a camera, and a just cause.
    Young Carson is trying to organize a movement, but under a Fascistic system (as is apparently practiced at Clemson,) that cannot be allowed.

    We see it all the time, the right wing accusing their ideological opponents of exactly what they practice.

    •  Well, there are fascists that aspire to power but (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      kfunk937

      do not have it.  However, I can't see the slightest connection between a call for conversation and fascism.  Fascism isn't so much about the thoughtful interchange of ideas.

      © cai Visit 350.org to join the fight against global warming.

      by cai on Sat Aug 23, 2014 at 09:54:20 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Yeesh.. Hard to see any legitimate opposition... (4+ / 0-)

    To this campaign. As someone who has worked in higher education for some time, I always like to see students getting involved with their campus, and applying what they learn into creating an excellent campus environment. These schools are for the students, not for the personal comfort of older staff and faculty who don't like having their ideas challenged. Sometimes, you have to take a step back and let the students lead the way. It's their school.

    Besides, acknowledging the unsavory aspects of the university's history and acknowledging the contributions of slave laborers sounds like something that's long overdue and most welcome. There's nothing ever wrong in talking about these things. I mean, what the hell is the point of having schools if we're afraid of the natural consequences of educating people?

  •  We required Germans to own their WWII history and (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cai, kfunk937

    atrocities of Nazi Germany. It's too bad that Clemson hired a sub standard poli sci prof who doesn't know what fascism is but also little to nothing about the history he's referring to.

    If that is the calibre of profs they employ, they will never deserve to be in the top 20.

    Bumper sticker seen on I-95; "Stop Socialism" my response: "Don't like socialism? GET OFF the Interstate highway!"

    by Clytemnestra on Sat Aug 23, 2014 at 08:49:04 PM PDT

  •  Many prestigious institutions were founded on the (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    kfunk937

    backs of slavery, including New England schools which got land or funding from wealthy Northern slave traders.  (IIRC, this includes Harvard, Brown, etc.)  

    There's no way to undo this past, any more than we can the fact that our country was founded on slavery and the removing and/or killing of the Native population.  But universities are not supposed to be about suppressing the truth, but discovering it and dealing with it.  

    I applaud Carson for his efforts to start this conversation at his school.

    © cai Visit 350.org to join the fight against global warming.

    by cai on Sat Aug 23, 2014 at 09:51:06 PM PDT

  •  First of all, I'd like to express my appreciati... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    smileycreek

    First of all, I'd like to express my appreciation of your desire to see justice and supporting this movement to deal with our past as opposed to pretending it didn't happen. It really is a shame but racism is still a big issue even though it isn't as publicly visible.

    But more important than that I want to talk about something that I feel is important that I think people should realize. People are not born racists. Racism is born from a fear of the unknown, but it is perpetuated by society. If you grew up around racist people and were constantly fed lies about how black people were less than human, then you would be a racist. It is hard to imagine, but we are all capable of hate. The reason I bring this up is, despite my agreement with your article, I feel that you are valuing racist people as less than human. For example, "some of the more evolved members of the white community." I feel that this statement shows some of the elitism that makes up the foundation of racism (even though it is not based on race) that I was mentioning we are all capable of. I respect your passion, but remember the words of Martin Luther King Jr., "Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." Racism won't be beaten out of people. We cannot change people by condemning them. Reaching out in love is the only way that we change our society without creating something worse. Thanks again for the post, and I know that you have a good heart, but remember to hate racism, not racists.

    •  I agree that racism is not inherent; it is (0+ / 0-)

      something we are taught. I was raised by a fairly racist mother who was raised by a racist father but I also resisted much of what she said and argued with her quite a bit over some of her beliefs and terminology. But I also believe that every single one of us has unconsciously absorbed racism and that none of us reaches adulthood 100% free of it. The most important thing is an open heart and an open mind (and, as you said, reaching out in love), along with the willingness to examine long-held beliefs and attitudes.

      Welcome to Daily Kos. If you have any questions about how to participate here, you can learn more at the Community Guidelines, the Knowledge Base, and the Site Resource Diaries. Diaries labeled "Open Thread" are also great places to ask. We look forward to your contributions.

      ~~ from the DK Partners & Mentors Team.

      The dinosaurs never saw that asteroid coming. What's our excuse?
      ~~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

      by smileycreek on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 04:38:54 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Strom Thurmond... (0+ / 0-)

    is also a rapist.  He impregnated his black housekeeper's daughter.  She was 16 when she gave birth to his daughter.  I bet they don't talk about that on campus!

    I live in a country where it's easier to buy a gun, than to cast a vote.

    by stuckupnorth on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 10:53:21 AM PDT

  •  Not Suprised by the "Southern" Professor plant (0+ / 0-)

    That is what happens to a Institution of higher learning when you let the kochs and other conservatives control the hiring. Of course you wind up with the "Orwellian ministry of truth"  Bazaaro upside down right is wrong, black is white world.

    The Dead give-a-way is the Statement made by the American Nazi Youth Corp Koch funded "Campus Reform" If any campus group at Clemson could be called fascist, this Libertarian Athiest Koch backed Youth Group would be the one. LOL  Their training seminars teach how to stage gorilla events to bait fellow students and Professors into compromising issues that can be exploited by the Right wind.

    They are a real  "turn in your parents as traitors for the Glory of the homeland" kinda crew LOL  

     noun
    1.
    an advocate or follower of fascism.
    synonyms:    authoritarian, totalitarian, autocrat, extreme right-winger, rightist; Nazi, blackshirt; nationalist, xenophobe, racist, anti-Semite, jingoist; neofascist, neo-Nazi
    "he was branded a fascist"

    It is a sad state of affairs when a "Professor" does not understand the meaning of the words that he uses , It does not reflect highly on the quality of education at Clemson.

    "How many Black neo-Nazis do you know that are still living ?"

  •  You would think that a Political Science (0+ / 0-)

    professor would know the meaning of fascism.

  •  BY ACKNOWLEDGING (0+ / 0-)

    RECONCILIATION, you are taking the moral high road...!! EXCELLENT..... YOUNG MAN...!!

  •  Race conversation at Clemson (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    belinda ridgewood

    While I agree with the general thrust of the posting and most of the content, I vigorously object to the first sentence.  Clemson is a public university.  Woodard, holding a named chair, is obviously a tenured professor.  Do we really want to advocate that state universities fire tenured professors with objectionable views?   I hope not---that WOULD be fascism.  There are many conservative state legislatures who would be happy to fire a lot of faculty at state universities for their views, but the tenure system protects the expression of those views.

    So, let us point out how stupid Woodard's remarks are while recognizing his right to be stupid and show it in his public utterances.  That is precisely what free speech is about for all of us.

  •  If you knew (0+ / 0-)

    the college's racist stance of the faculty and history, why did you choose to stay and graduate from there?

  •  Excellent video: this guy has a future (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    belinda ridgewood

    This is the best approach to America's racial legacy I've seen - it's brave, intellectually honest, respectful and clever.

    Apparently the antithesis of Professor Woodward.

    Keep at it young man, your're on the right side of this effort.

    “First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.” Mahatma Gandhi

  •  Out of their minds (0+ / 0-)

    Most southerners know the south lost the civil war. But they console themselves by saying the south came in second. And Clumsun is no exception.

  •  That idiot... (0+ / 0-)

    obviously doesn't even know the definition of the word, "fascist." If the moron wants to know the definition, all he has to do is look at a picture of Ronald Reagan.

    If you like bicycles, check out the newest and coolest products at my site, "ZiggyboyBullet.com." You can also find my products at e-Bay under the name, "Ziggyboy." See all the products on my "See seller's other items" link.

    by JohnnieZ on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 05:03:41 PM PDT

  •  Clemson and ignorance (0+ / 0-)

    would appear to go together like butter and popcorn.  But for a so-called political science professor to label as "fascism" this effort to raise dialogue simple shows he is not only a racist bigot but he's also ignorant about the subject he teaches.

    I honestly thought Clemson was a reputable university.  I see now that it is not and has probably never been.  I wonder where they get their professors who don't seem to know much about their subjects?

  •  Clemson... (0+ / 0-)

    The Penn State of the South, Blessed Realm of Cow Tippers, lost to USC HOW many times in the last 5 years?!

  •  David Woodward, Clemson U, etc (0+ / 0-)

    Let me provide a little context: I grew up in the South of the 195s/60s, went to UNC Chapel Hill, saw - and participated in -  the attack on the southern system of apartheid.  I left the South in 1967 altho returned to visit my parents/see friends/go to class reunions.etc. until 2009 when my Mother died.  I graduated from UNC in 1967; Woodward graduated from college in 1970 - pretty much my own age.  

    First, David Woodward: if you look at his bio he has never spent any significant time out of the South (Abilene Christian U. etc) so has never had to face the reality of what the racial domination system really was.  Second, since there is nothing on his bio to suggest otherwise, it is very unlikely that he ever did anything to change the apartheid system in which he was raised, socialized and prospered.  Why would anyone expect anything different from him now???? As we used to say, for some of them we'll just have to wait for them to die off - ain't no changing of their "minds."

    Lastly, on Clemson: it was reliably reported at the time  - altho I can't find anything now on the web - that Clemson students came out on the balconies of their dorms and cheered when news of JFK's assassination was reported.  And, whether true or not (and, personally I think if was true for at least some of the students), the striking thing was that NOBODY thought it unlikely.

    Finally, Clemson wanting to be in the top 20 universities - where?   In SC?  LOL - they aren't even in the top 200. Nor should they be.

    •  Eh (0+ / 0-)

      Clemson's made a fairly strong and steady charge toward top-20 public status. I haven't looked lately, but Clemson was in the top-25 of public universities when I graduated. I assume they're still somewhere close to that point.

      It's also probably the best university in the state (with really only one competitor for that mantle).

      That's what makes this disturbing. Clemson IS a good school. With tons of bright students. It's proof positive that racism is not just the purview of people with low IQs.

      "We forward in this generation, triumphantly."

      by Grizzard on Fri Aug 29, 2014 at 10:37:00 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Doesn't want to apologize? (0+ / 0-)

    Well, then maybe he should be made to apologize.  How about targeting the President of Clemson for this one?  

  •  "Oh, I wish I was in Dixie..." (NOT!) (0+ / 0-)

    Hey, it's South Carolina. 'Nuff said.

    I will never understand how anybody from anywhere could ever sanctify the late Senator Strom Thurmond. (May his desicated carcass rot in Hell.) Just the fact that many southerners still hold onto that raging racist's heinous negative opinions regarding civil rights, and that he detested African-Americans, shows just how far the South has NOT progressed on these issues. (I find it hysterically ironic that Thurmond had a clandestine, bi-racial daughter. Fucking hypocrite.) Anyway, I thought that bigoted old fart was NEVER going to kick the bucket. I say, "Good riddance to bad rubbish." Sadly, his racist philosophy continues to this day, not only in the Deep South, but in areas all across America.

  •  Typical Southern, Conservative Behavior; Same Old. (0+ / 0-)

    "It is the responsibility and duty of everyone to help the deserving underprivileged and less fortunate among us."

    by sichuan on Wed Aug 27, 2014 at 09:17:01 PM PDT

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