Daily Kos

PLEASE RECOMMEND - Get Eminem's kickass Anti-Bush Video OnMTV Now!

by DrFrankLives

Mon Oct 25, 2004 at 04:56:43 PM PDT

I see this topic is now on Kos's main page. How about a little love for the originator of the concept?
The video to Eminem's scathing anti-Bush/pro-Vote video is up now at this site. You can also see it at these sites:
Update [2004-10-25 20:50:53 by DrFrankLives]:

Windows Media Player

http://boss.streamos.com/wmedia/interscope/eminem/encore/video/mosh-rev/000_mosh-rev.asx

Real Player

http://boss.streamos.com/real/interscope/eminem/encore/video/mosh-rev/000_mosh-rev.ram

Quicktime

http://movies10.archive.org/3/movies/Mosh2/GNN_Mosh_bb2.mov

or

http://boss.streamos.com/qtime/interscope/eminem/encore/video/mosh-rev/300_mosh-rev.mov


 The animation, done by the Guerrilla News Network's Ian Inaba, is astounding.

But what is really cool is the message in the song, which is made crystal clear by the end of the video.

VOTE and get rid of this President the old fashioned way.  The best revolution is fought int he ballot box, and Eminem makes his case well.

Update [2004-10-25 20:5:44 by DrFrankLives]:

Vote for this video on MTV's TRL by going here and scrolling to the bottom. Fill in "Eminem" and "Mosh", some brief info, and hit send. [link fixed]

You can also do the same thing on another show on MTV - click here for the hip hop request show. If we get all Kossacks to do this and vote several times, maybe they'll have the balls to play it.
We want this to be controversial, so they'll play it over and over and over. Here's a taste:

Take the President and strap him an AK.
Let him go fight his own war, let him impress Daddy that way...

Tags: (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 257 comments

  •  Please recommend (3.96 / 33)

    People need to see this video and then call MTV and request it as much as you can.

    "Man is free at the moment he wishes to be." - Voltaire

    by DrFrankLives on Mon Oct 25, 2004 at 04:55:27 PM PDT

    •  MTV (4.00 / 3)

      MTV plays music videos?

      "If the misery of the poor be caused not by the laws of nature, but by our institutions, great is our sin." -- Charles Darwin

      by jkelly on Mon Oct 25, 2004 at 04:57:00 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Holy hip hop nation (none / 0)

      Damn thats good.

      Reality-based progressive.

      by Pops on Mon Oct 25, 2004 at 06:48:56 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  While we're on videos let me recommend... (3.83 / 6)

      These are from one of my favorite artists' who used to front the band Tool but is now with a new group A Perfect Circle. These would be great to add to the list of TRL requests while we are doing that.

      The first is a cover of Imagine from John Lennin. The music isn't as good, but the imagery in the video makes up for it. For those of you regulars, people have already brought this up. Find it here:

      Imagine (low bandwidth)

      Imagine (high bandwidth)

      The second and more powerful in my opinion is a new song called Counting Bodies which is about following the president to war blindly. The graphics for this one are, like the Eminem video, animation. This is as powerful or more so than the Imagine video and I would recommend watching it second (so as not to disappoint on the Imagine video). See it here:

      Counting Bodies (low bandwidth)

      Counting Bodies (high bandwidth)

      Fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity, only not as much fun.

      by Toktora on Mon Oct 25, 2004 at 08:00:21 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  How do we get this playing outside colleges on (none / 0)

      election day with signs saying "Vote Now"?

      Vans to the poll. Free food.

      What group is working college campuses?

      ClickBrain.com

      by bradnickel on Mon Oct 25, 2004 at 09:54:38 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  We should study his lyrics. (4.00 / 2)

        This is Lakoff type stuff here. You could read his lyrics and learn a lot. He uses good metaphors and language and is a youth leader.

        Peer2Peer Distributed Social Networking

        by Lucian on Tue Oct 26, 2004 at 03:03:37 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Lyrics (none / 1)

          [I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America
          And to the Republic for which it stands
          One nation under God
          IndivisibleE
          It feels so good to be back..]

          Scrutinize every word, memorize every line
          I spit it once, refuel, reenergize, and rewind
          I give sight to the blind, mind sight through the mind
          I ostracize my right to express when I feel it's time
          It's just all in your mind, what you interpret it as
          I say to fight you take it as I'm gonna whip someone's ass
          If you don't understand don't even bother to ask
          A father who has grown up with a fatherless past
          Who has blown up now to rap phenomenon that has
          Or at least shows no difficulty multi task
          And juggling both, perhaps mastered his craft slash
          Entrepreneur who has held long too few more rap acts
          Who has had a few obstacles thrown his way through the last half
          Of his career typical manure moving past that
          Mister kiss his ass crack, he's a class act
          Rubber band man, yea he just snaps back

          Come along, follow me as I lead through the darkness
          As I provide just enough spark, that we need to proceed
          Carry on, give me hope, give me strength,
          Come with me, and I won't stear you wrong
          Put your faith and your trust as I guide us through the fog
          Till the light, at the end, of the tunnel, we gonna fight,
          We gonna charge, we gonna stomp, we gonna march through the swamp
          We gonna mosh through the marsh, take us right through the doors

          To the people up top, on the side and the middle,
          Come together, let's all bomb and swamp just a little
          Just let it gradually build, from the front to the back
          All you can see is a sea of people, some white and some black
          Don't matter what color, all that matters is we gathered together
          To celebrate for the same cause, no matter the weather
          If it rains let it rain, yea the wetter the better
          They ain't gonna stop us, they can't, we're stronger now more then ever,
          They tell us no we say yea, they tell us stop we say go,
          Rebel with a rebel yell, raise hell we gonna let em know
          Stomp, push up, mush, fuck Bush, until they bring our troops home come on just . . .

          Come along, follow me as I lead through the darkness
          As I provide just enough spark, that we need to proceed
          Carry on, give me hope, give me strength,
          Come with me, and I won't stear you wrong
          Put your faith and your trust as I guide us through the fog
          Till the light, at the end, of the tunnel, we gonna fight,
          We gonna charge, we gonna stomp, we gonna march through the swamp
          We gonna mosh through the marsh, take us right through the doors, come on

          Imagine it pouring, it's raining down on us,
          Mosh pits outside the oval office
          Someone's trying to tell us something, maybe this is God just saying
          we're responsible for this monster, this coward, that we have empowered
          This is Bin Laden, look at his head nodding,
          How could we allow something like this, Without pumping our fist
          Now this is our, final hour
          Let me be the voice, and your strength, and your choice
          Let me simplify the rhyme, just to amplify the noise
          Try to amplify the times it, and multiply it by six
          Teen million people are equal of this high pitch
          Maybe we can reach Al Quaida through my speech
          Let the President answer on high anarchy
          Strap him with AK-47, let him go
          Fight his own war, let him impress daddy that way
          No more blood for oil, we got our own battles to fight on our soil
          No more psychological warfare to trick us to think that we ain't loyal
          If we don't serve our own country we're patronizing a hero
          Look in his eyes, it's all lies, the stars and stripes
          They've been swiped, washed out and wiped,
          And Replaced with his own face, mosh now or die
          If I get sniped tonight you'll know why, because I told you to fight

          So come along, follow me as I lead through the darkness
          As I provide just enough spark, that we need to proceed
          Carry on, give me hope, give me strength,
          Come with me, and I won't stear you wrong
          Put your faith and your trust as I guide us through the fog
          Till the light, at the end, of the tunnel, we gonna fight,
          We gonna charge, we gonna stomp, we gonna march through the swamp
          We gonna mosh through the marsh, take us right through the doors

          [Eminem speaking angrily]
          And as we proceed, to mosh through this desert storm, in these closing statements, if they should argue, let us beg to differ, as we set aside our differences, and assemble our own army, to disarm this weapon of mass destruction that we call our president, for the present, and mosh for the future of our next generation, to speak and be heard, Mr. President, Mr. Senator

          Rats and roaches live by competition under the laws of supply and demand; it is the privilege of human beings to live under the laws of justice and mercy.

          by Your Friendly Neighbourhood Dictator on Tue Oct 26, 2004 at 09:33:52 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Inducements (none / 0)

        Free food is illegal in most states (offering any inducement to vote).

        Rides aren't illegal, though.

        by dhartung on Tue Oct 26, 2004 at 07:59:42 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  This is huge (none / 0)

    Hip hop is THE group that no one has reached out to. Eminem will deliver more of the right GOTV momentum than almost any 527.


    www.Gropinator.net

    by Pacific John on Mon Oct 25, 2004 at 05:03:21 PM PDT

    •  Don't forget P. Diddy (4.00 / 2)

      And his Vote or Die campaign.  

      by mrs deedop on Mon Oct 25, 2004 at 05:23:20 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Disagree... (none / 0)

      Emimem may make some inroads, but 527s actually have boots on the ground making sure people get out to vote.  I think 527s are still probably have more impact than Eminem.  

      Don't like XOM and OPEC? What have YOU done to reduce your oil consumption? Hot air does NOT constitute a renewable resource!

      by Asak on Mon Oct 25, 2004 at 06:32:33 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  No way... (none / 0)

        ...this is a culture shift. Sure, GOTV beats this, but most message ads fail to reach out to otherwise ignored segments of the population. A young soldier gets this, but could care less about political chatter.


        www.Gropinator.net

        by Pacific John on Mon Oct 25, 2004 at 06:38:44 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  You are both right (none / 0)

          Eminem is simply not going to get the numbers to the polls that MoveOn and ACT will. It's not gonna happen. But...if this video and song got major play, it could influence a lot of members of the hip hop youth (whites, blacks, etc) to get out there and vote against Bush. I wish this video could have come out earlier and influenced people to register, but hopefully Fahrenheit 9/11 got that mission accomplished.

          Now it's up to Eminem to give them that final push into the voting booth, to say "This is why your vote matters". Instead of rioting in the streets, the youth can march right into city halls all across the country and VOTE. It's a powerful message for a certain demographic. But we have to get the video on the air.

          Old Man McCain.com - the best McCain attack blog on the web!

          by existenz on Mon Oct 25, 2004 at 07:24:41 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  You are right. (none / 0)

            How do we tie this in with our team that is working colleges? Quickly.

            ClickBrain.com

            by bradnickel on Mon Oct 25, 2004 at 09:56:33 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  I think you are missing the point (4.00 / 3)

            This song is an anthem. This is the voice of all of us, especially minorities, but all of us who are seething at what happened in Florida 2000, then 9/11, and every attempt to create an imperialist regime over the past four years.

            It was Nirvana and Pearl Jam who produced the last true generational anthems in the early 90's and Bill Clinton was the result.

            Eminem has produced something that is the voice of millions.

            by silverbax on Tue Oct 26, 2004 at 05:54:55 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  Eminem is a leader to young people. (none / 0)

        Young people may not listen to John Kerry, he's too old and cannot speak in their language. Eminem is young and speaks their language. Thats the difference.

        People should be studying Eminems lyrics to refine the message. Hopefully the Diary owner will post the lyrics.

        Peer2Peer Distributed Social Networking

        by Lucian on Tue Oct 26, 2004 at 03:05:50 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  if only (2.63 / 22)

    eminem wasn't such an idiotic prick.

    by seamus on Mon Oct 25, 2004 at 05:14:28 PM PDT

    •  Dude, (4.00 / 7)

      you have to watch this video.

      You won't say that again.

      "Man is free at the moment he wishes to be." - Voltaire

      by DrFrankLives on Mon Oct 25, 2004 at 05:17:57 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  running against bush (2.54 / 11)

        running against bush is good.  being a bigoted prick is bad.  I';m glad he is doing a bush bashing video.  he is still a prick ass by my standards.

        by seamus on Mon Oct 25, 2004 at 05:21:46 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  You're perspective is myopic (3.90 / 10)

          You're viewing him through your filter and not understanding what he represents on his own terms. I think the whole misogyny/homophobia think is to some an extent a media creation that doesn't fully grasp that Eminem raps in a series of "characters" and takes certain quotes out of context.

          Ben P

          -3.25, -3.85

          by Ben P on Mon Oct 25, 2004 at 05:29:54 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Agreed. (3.75 / 4)

            I think there is value in understanding the context and filter of "young people's" music. [I've long thought that if people had looked at NWA's Fuck The Police as an indicator of what was happening in black Los Angeles, the Rodney King Riots could have been averted.] Certainly doesn't mean you have to agree with it. I think this video is tremendously powerful...

            by eflat on Mon Oct 25, 2004 at 06:18:41 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  I don't get Eminem (4.00 / 4)

            but then I'm pushing 50. Near as I can tell, I'm not supposed to get Eminem.

            But I do have to say, I heard "The Real Saddam Hussein" and thought, "You know, that's a good beat." (The tune is Eminem's "The Real Slim Shady," of course.)

            Then I was sitting in the movie theater and the trailer fro 8 Mile came on, which featured a clip from "I'm Sorry Mama," and I thought, "Wow, that's seriously good."

            And now this.

            I still can't see myself buying an Eminem CD. It's just not the kind of music I choose to listen to. But, if he has a positive message for the people who do listen to him, good for him.

            People who watch MTV and listen to Eminem may yet be our November Surprise.

            Our Man in Redmond is now Omir the Storyteller

            by Our Man In Redmond on Mon Oct 25, 2004 at 08:06:53 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  my father (4.00 / 2)

              loves Eminem, and he is 55.  It embarrassed my 17 year old brother at first, but eventually we got used to it being constantly in his car and hearing my father sing "my name is" and "my daddy's gone crazy!" around the house.  this year my brother gave him an Eminem CD for his birthday.

              "I believe that if you have a theory and the fact comes along that changes the theory, then you throw out the theory." - Howard Dean

              by Bryan in CT on Mon Oct 25, 2004 at 09:01:20 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Hooray! I'm Not Alone!!! (4.00 / 3)

                I'm 47, and I just lied on that TRL ballot...I said I was born in 1980. They'll probably still think a 24-year-old is too old for their demographic! But I don't feel old yet, and I still like some contemporary music like Eminem.

                "Mosh" is an extremely powerful video, and I am glad that Eminem's taken such a strong anti-Bush stand. A couple of young people I know like Bush's "strength," and this video and rap should make them think twice about that. (I've countered that argument with: where does "strength" end and pigheadedness begin?) They'll listen to Eminem before they listen to me!

                I hope this message gets out to Eminem fans. I'm just concerned that it might be a little late to get airplay before the election.

                by librarydiane on Tue Oct 26, 2004 at 04:08:27 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  Too funny (none / 0)

                I'm 51 -- and gay to boot -- and Eminem is about the  only contemporary American musical "artist" whose CDs I buy the instant they come out.

                Actually, I find it hard to believe that someone my age -- with decades of experience consuming and comprehending popular culture -- *wouldn't" get Eminem. Not to be po-mo here, but provocative characters and stories in music goes back to the late 1960s, doesn't it?

                Mark my words: Eminem will go down in American musical history as the Stephen Sondheim of his generation.

                by matt n nyc on Tue Oct 26, 2004 at 11:26:06 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Stephen Sondheim!? (none / 0)

                  You are hilarious.  Forgive my stereotyping, but yes, only a 51-year-old gay man would make that comparison.  I'm sure Em's management won't be pushing him as our generation's Stephen Sondheim anytime soon.

                  eek!

                  by sickandtired on Tue Oct 26, 2004 at 11:54:02 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Either (none / 0)

                    you don't know Sondheim or you don't understand Eminem.

                    And yes, your stereotyping is offensive. Maybe you'd be a little less "sick and tired" if you opened your mind a bit.

                    by matt n nyc on Tue Oct 26, 2004 at 12:14:50 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  My comment (none / 0)

                      was intended in only the most lighthearted way.  I was saying that I liked your comparison.  Should have done a better job telegraphing my tone, I guess.  But I'm in theatre, so when I talk about 51-year-old gay men and Sondheim, there is only love, I promise.  It's not that I think only 51-year-old gay men can like Sondheim, it's that unfortunately too few people who are not 51-year-old gay men have any idea who he is.  I certainly didn't mean to challenge you.

                      eek!

                      by sickandtired on Tue Oct 26, 2004 at 12:39:57 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  I overreacted. (none / 0)

                        Sorry.

                        And of course you're absolutely right about how few people know and appreciate Sondheim. Sad but true.

                        by matt n nyc on Tue Oct 26, 2004 at 01:26:20 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                      •  Not to mention (none / 0)

                        Stephen Sondheim absolutely obliterated William Safire on the topic of Clinton's impeachment. Safire was so dumbstruck he devoted an "On Language" column to analyzing how good Sondheim's letter was. The letter ended with the request

                        "tell him [Safire] to go back to his roots."

                        -- in one stroke mockingly quoting Safire's old boss Nixon and letting Safire know he's better with etymology than political commentary. Delicious.

                        by Thoreaufare on Tue Oct 26, 2004 at 07:58:43 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                •  My sentiments too ... (none / 1)

                  I'm 51 too, I certainly "get" Eminem.  

                  Anyone that was plugged into the 60's, lived through the upheaval in society and use of music to communicate what was going on has to have some affinity to artists such as Eminem - even if it's not within their personal musical tastes.

                  This video two-by-foured me in the forehead.

                  "Self-respect is the keystone of democracy"

                  by neverontheright on Tue Oct 26, 2004 at 01:54:28 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

            •  And now I've seen the video (none / 0)

              and I have to say . . .

              DAMN! That is AMAZING. Say anything you want about this guy, but it's pretty obvious he loves his country.

              I may have to rethink buying that CD. Not because I would ever listen to it (I have two sons who are into ICP so maybe they would like it) but because it's the only way I can think of to throw the guy some money by way of saying "Job well done." Too bad that if I do most of the purchase price will go to those bastards at the record company and the RIAA.

              Our Man in Redmond is now Omir the Storyteller

              by Our Man In Redmond on Mon Oct 25, 2004 at 09:57:00 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  8 Mile was powerful (none / 0)

              It was really quite an incredible movie.

              The music wasn't even the best part.

              (0.00,-3.13) "I may disagree with what you have to say, but I shall defend, to the death, your right to say it."

              by Steve4Clark on Tue Oct 26, 2004 at 02:41:18 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  Is the term (none / 0)

          prick ass homophobic?

          just askin'

          Q: How stupid can 51% of our country be? A: Pretty damned stupid.

          by wunderwood on Mon Oct 25, 2004 at 09:14:23 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  eminem is a genius (4.00 / 4)

      well respected by the hip hop community where to be a credible white rapper, you better be twice as good an MC.

      yes yes, i know to politically correct liberals, his homophobia and misogyny are turnoffs. but there is a raw honesty, no bullshit pretense to Eminem. it's why the kids love him. i'm not a huge fan of his content and whiny putdowns of celebs, but the man has skillz. and i'm thrilled he's come out against Bush. if we wanna start winning back some white males, having folks like Eminem on our side is a good start.

      by ihlin on Mon Oct 25, 2004 at 05:19:02 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  raw honesty? (2.60 / 10)

        try raw bigotry.  I'm glad he is on our side with Bush and I think its good he has a video (that I can't watch on that site) that bashes Bush.  He is still a prick though.

        by seamus on Mon Oct 25, 2004 at 05:20:52 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Like one of Cole's collegues said... (4.00 / 2)

          Eminem is a bootlegger, but that does not mean we should reject him outright.

          This is about something more important than previous differences.


          www.Gropinator.net

          by Pacific John on Mon Oct 25, 2004 at 06:42:07 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  no one says (4.00 / 4)

          that truman capote is a seriel killer because he wrote In Cold Blood.

          Maybe that's a bad example because that's not fiction... what about Stephen King...?  crazed killer at heart?

          strong infrastructure and fair play

          by pyrrho on Mon Oct 25, 2004 at 06:58:31 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Shame on you all (4.00 / 4)

          for trollrating seamus.  We don't want unanimity here--that's for Bush rallies.

          I'll chime in.  I have listened to eminem and made a real effort to understand what he was about when he skyrocketed to fame.  I like some rap, although I'm a 36-year-old white guy with a family, so not a TRL target.

          Eminem is clearly talented, but socially immature to say the least.  Prick is the perfect word for him.

          Having said that, this video is the bomb.  The song's ok, not his best, but combined with the video it is pure dynamite for our side.  Get it out there however we can.

          Go ahead and troll rate me.  Or you could think for a moment and tell me how he's not a prick instead.  Your choice.

          Angie and Bill: Colorado's bright future!

          by ubikkibu on Tue Oct 26, 2004 at 11:43:04 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  As someone turning 35 in a couple weeks (4.00 / 2)

            I noticed Eminem's talent from the start, but was turned off by his immature rants about his mother, his wife, his children, gay people, and so on.

            But as time goes on, I think he's maturing, and this is just another sign of that. He's increasingly tackling relevant social issues, and not just in this video. I haven't listened to all his music so it's possible the homophobia and misogyny and self-loathing is still there, but I get a sense it's on the backburner to a certain degree even if it's there.

            Also, like a lot of young American white guys, he's got a lot of internalized anger and prejudice to deal with, and even in his early work he's remarkable by the fact that he deals with it, publicly, in his music. Would he be as good an artist if he ignored his darker thoughts and just talked about what people wanted to hear?

            Eminem seems to be evolving by his confrontation of these issues, exactly the ones that offend his critics. He's a role model whether he or his critics like it or not. If he could go through a process of brutal and public self-examination and come out the other side a better man, he could provide an example to other people with similar attitudes to confront them themselves.

            A couple of years ago, if he would have done a video like this at all (and he did do at least one video critical of Bush) it would have suggested some immature and destructive course of action. But this video ends with a plea to channel action into voting. That's maturity, and he should be judged by his journey and where he is now, and not where he was five years ago. Given what I see, I can't call him a prick.

            The Daily Cascadian

            by seaprog on Tue Oct 26, 2004 at 03:35:27 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  It's your speech: own it (3.66 / 6)

        Eminem has made bigoted comments about women and gays. Period.

        I am sure southern white racists were also cool and relevant in their communities when they beat and burned black people, but that didn't make them right.

        Don't blame political correctness for your apologist view of bigoted speech.

        You are the one who views gay bashing and women bashing as merely politically correct jibberjabber.

        It's your view. Own it. Don't blame it on someone else.

        by Bald Peanut on Mon Oct 25, 2004 at 07:54:09 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  The video stands (4.00 / 7)

          And I see no homophobia, racism or sexism there.

          I have never liked rap, and Eminem in particular turned me so far off that I would get irritated hearing the bass from my neighbor's apartment.

          But what I saw here cut through all bullshit, all prior crap, all of that. It was powerful. Nuanced. I saw strong women, people uniting, a powerful anti-racism message and a HELL of a call to power.

          Will I go out and become an Eminem fan and fawn all over his prior stuff? Nope.

          But this stands. It is outstanding on every level.

          Sometimes the messenger comes crawling and covered with pox, and the message is still good.

          Sometimes the message comes from an unlikely source and is still valid.

          Do not fall into the ad hominem trap and discard this work of art simply because you do not like the artist.

          My respect for Eminem climbed measurably with this.

          I am a feminist, a staunch advocate for gay rights, and a mother of a kid who's just getting to the age where this genre of music tends to become appealing.

          This is not about "winning back white males". It's not about political correctness. It's about survival, and the video brings it home.

          I make milk. What's your superpower?

          by jenrose on Tue Oct 26, 2004 at 04:56:39 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  wtf? (4.00 / 4)

        homophobia and misogyny don't turn me off because I'm a politically correct liberal. They turn me off because they suck.

        Don't be a jerk.

        Eminem is a work in progress. Just like all of us. He's growing, changing, getting righteous, letting go of all that stupid crap. You are right, he is a bloody genius. But homophobia still sucks, and so does your dumb-ass jibe at people who don't like it.

        Write Al Gore a letter asking him to run: The Honorable Al Gore 2100 West End Avenue Suite 620 Nashville, TN 37203

        by MonkeyDog102 on Mon Oct 25, 2004 at 08:38:34 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  work in progress (4.00 / 2)

          that's what all of us are. i struggle every day with class, race, gender, sexual orientation prejudices, despite my nice ivy league degrees and my work for progressive causes. Feminists would rather denounce Eminem instead of examining the very real, raw feelings that lead to his rage against women. his mom was a coked up nutcase from what i gather. Kim seems to have a few screws loose too. i forced myself to listen to the song "Kim" even though it terrified me at times--but the pain, the anger, was so raw and real that i was compelled to listen to it and try to understand why Eminem had these feelings of rage towards women. that's how we attack misogyny. we shouldn't just say, "eminem sucks and hates women and he's a prick. don't listen to him." i think we have to engage those emotions, esp. the very deep-seated homophobia in the hip hop community. overcoming oppression is "hard work" to quote our President. that's why i find Eminem's work so provocative and interesting. My fave MC of all time, Tupac, was not without his contradictions towards women and gays. certain liberals would just like to denounce all hip hop and not bother listening to it.

          by ihlin on Mon Oct 25, 2004 at 10:10:43 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  The music business (4.00 / 3)

            It has a certain package of rebellion it wants to sell.  And when the music business wants something, there are always people elbowing each other to give it to them.

            Hip-hop isn't my subculture, but punk has been for many years now.  The rules with regard to what the industry wants from each are similar, paerallel if not identical.  It wants posture, not substance in its rebellion.  They want acts that will be "bad" but threaten nothing of the status quo, hopefully reinforcement.  And the stardom dream is enough for many to give them exactly what they want, which they'll take, as long as they make a buck of them, and then spit them back out hollow husks.  It's why DIY is so important, it's the only way to avoid the meatgrinder.

            The industry wants lots of shouting about hos and fags, such "bad" boys, oh look, they're showing off their abs.  It sure beats getting confronted with stuff like--and here I'll show you just how old I am--Don't push me cause I'm close to the edge I'm just trying not to lose my head It's like a jungle sometimes it makes me wonder how I keep from going under.   Later I liked Digable Planets and Arrested Development, but the industry defines the sound and the market for the public, not vice versa, consumers are taught to demand what the industry wants them to demand.  Snoop, now there's a model the industry can get behind.  Like from my world they want Blink-182 right?  Sometimes accidents happen, a Public Enemy breaks through, and they have to spend 5 years upping the intensity of the faux-rebellion to distract the market from the real thing.

            </anti-corpotainmentcomplex rant>  

            MA-02

            by Dancing Larry on Tue Oct 26, 2004 at 01:06:02 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Maybe I'm showing my age, too (4.00 / 2)

              Very, very well said! Or typed, for the sticklers.

              My Dad LOVED "The Message" when I was growing up...and now I understand why.  I liked the beat then; we live the lyrics now.  Good music/lyrics/skills just speak to you, which is why I'm blown away by Eminem's work here.  

              BTW, I checked out of rap when Digable Planets was traded for 40s and blunts and b------.  

              "Sir, we've already lost the dock." A Zion Lieutenant to Commander Lock, The Matrix Revolutions

              by AuntiePeachy on Tue Oct 26, 2004 at 07:21:38 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  digable planets (none / 1)

                were da bomb. loved them. there is still a lot of good hip hop out there. it may not be on BET or MTV, but it exists (Blackilicious, Pharcyde, Common, Mos Def, Jean Grae, Ugly Duckling, Del Tron, Mr Lif etc etc). Even a statement like Jesus Walks by Kanye West is inspiring. glad that's gotten a lot of airplay.

                by ihlin on Tue Oct 26, 2004 at 08:08:01 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Why, oh why, do the (none / 1)

                  ...positive, and dare I say "conscious" acts get almost no airplay?  Makes me crazy!

                  I just LOVE Mos Def as an actor/poet, but I've never experienced his music.  In fact, to further show my age, of the acts you listed, I only know of Pharcyde/Common/Mos Def/Kanye West (he almost doesn't count b/c he's everywhere these days).  I can't deal with the Hip Hop/R&B stations, because every other song just features some ignorant, DMX-biting grunts over a beat.  

                  So my (I should say "our" since the hubby and I share part of the communte) radio listening consists of NPR & the Tom Joyner Morning Show.  But our music collection is quite varied: Anita Baker CDs, O Brother, Where Art Thou soundtrack CD; Sade on DVD and Rage Against the Machine DVD.  If we hear good music, insightful lyrics and are moved, then we purchase.

                  I'm genuinely moved by Eminem's work here.  That said, it's going to take a bit more for me to support him financially.  He functions and is marketed as if the Elvis of Hip Hop, and I have issues with that. Though I'd suspect that he dislikes some--maybe even many--aspects of this, he's still a willing actor.  But there's no denying his work in this instance.

                  "Sir, we've already lost the dock." A Zion Lieutenant to Commander Lock, The Matrix Revolutions

                  by AuntiePeachy on Tue Oct 26, 2004 at 01:14:00 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                •  thanks for the suggestions (none / 0)

                  I'll check it out.  I'm familiar with some of the names (Mos Def, Pharcyde) but haven't really checked any of it out, I'll give them a listen.

                  MA-02

                  by Dancing Larry on Tue Oct 26, 2004 at 04:02:59 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

          •  asdf (none / 0)

            Feminists would rather denounce Eminem instead of examining the very real, raw feelings that lead to his rage against women. his mom was a coked up nutcase from what i gather. Kim seems to have a few screws loose too.

            If you had an abusive husband, that's what he'd say as well - I beat you because I had a bad childhood, because I work all day at a shitty job, because you're crazy, because my ex-girlfriend was an addict and I'm still stressed from it, etc., etc...

            They love throwing the blame onto other people and pretending that they are really the victim. They want your sympathy and understanding but it doesn't make them take responsibility for their actions.

            by Erin on Tue Oct 26, 2004 at 07:51:33 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  he's n ot homophobic, it's satire NM (none / 0)

        NM

        by montana fly on Mon Oct 25, 2004 at 10:33:57 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  "Genius" is a bit much (none / 0)

        He's certainly talented, but I personally can't stand the guy because of the mysogeny and homophobia you already noted.  His music doesn't do anything for me either, but I don't like rap to begin with.

        "When I was an alien, cultures weren't opinions" ~ Kurt Cobain, Territorial Pissings

        by Subterranean on Tue Oct 26, 2004 at 01:15:48 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Thats why (none / 0)

        People need to tap that genius and somehow get Eminem involved.  He could write speeches or do a lot of stuff for the party if the party were to reach out to him.

        Peer2Peer Distributed Social Networking

        by Lucian on Tue Oct 26, 2004 at 03:08:35 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  His "bigotry" is a media construction (4.00 / 9)

      It's largely a false, sensationalistic construction based on a single line in one of the songs from his first album.

      Eminem attempted to the record straight in his semi-autobiographical movie "8 mile".  There's a powerful scene where he sticks up for a gay co-worker.

      by Alan Young on Mon Oct 25, 2004 at 06:12:25 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  THANK YOU, ALAN (4.00 / 4)

        All that homophobia is an act.  All of these personalities are completely crafted for the MTV generation.  Don't believe the hype, seamus.  Eminem is very gifted, and he can reach the disaffected youth like noone else I can think of.

        Isn't a centrist just someone who doesn't have the balls to be a fanatic? -- Stephen Colbert

        by Muboshgu on Mon Oct 25, 2004 at 06:47:52 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  the homophobia is immature language (none / 0)

          usually he's calling someone gay to insult that person.

          immature... and yes a part of homophobia, but also blown out of proportion.

          Like saying Pryor was racist to use the n-word.  Just like it in that Pryor eventually thought so... but still was not racist.

          strong infrastructure and fair play

          by pyrrho on Mon Oct 25, 2004 at 07:00:06 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  nononono! (none / 1)

            There is a HYOOOOOOOOOOGE difference between usage of the n-word by black artists and usages of "faggot" by straight people.  

            I accept that it's immature.

            It's still fucking hate speech.  In fact, it's immature fucking hate speech.  

            I, for one, don't feel a ton better knowing that he's "just" using faggot as an insult.  

            "Compassion is an unstable emotion. It needs to be translated into action, or it withers." --Susan Sontag

            by spoooky on Mon Oct 25, 2004 at 07:58:37 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  agreed (none / 0)

              as I said, that's still part of homophobia, but not quite what he's accused of.

              Your point wins on merit however.

              strong infrastructure and fair play

              by pyrrho on Mon Oct 25, 2004 at 08:02:01 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  And to his credit... (none / 0)

                I do agree w/ posts below:  

                he's certainly not the first musician (hiphop or otherwise) to deal in homophobia and misogyny in order to establish credibility.  

                I'm still all for calling a bucket a bucket.  I don't like hearing  "faggot" shot around as if it were no more inconsequential than "jerk" or "asshole."  

                "Compassion is an unstable emotion. It needs to be translated into action, or it withers." --Susan Sontag

                by spoooky on Mon Oct 25, 2004 at 08:09:06 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

            •  Riddle me this... (none / 0)

              spoooky, have you ever shut your hand in the door and exclaimed "cock sucker" or called someone a "mother fucker"? If exclaimed cock sucker are you being derogatory to everyone who has ever done that, male and female? Or if you call someone a mother fucker, are you degrading your dad?

              What I'm trying to get at is that everything that one says does not have to be, and in many cases should not be, taken literally.

              Fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity, only not as much fun.

              by Toktora on Mon Oct 25, 2004 at 08:21:48 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  literal does not equal derrogatory (none / 0)

                this is important.

                "faggot" is bad even IF it's not actually a "faggot" you're talking to. you get that?

                (that said, I believe that among people you trust who won't misjudge your meaning, like when it's just me the fag hagh and my brown homo friends, you can get past language as maker of meaning and camp-ify it.Maybe Em is just so cocky he trusts everybody not to misjudge him... or doesn't care if they do.)

                "Write something, even if it's just a suicide note." Gore Vidal.

                by Drunky Brewster on Mon Oct 25, 2004 at 08:55:13 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  'zactly: (none / 1)

                  Doesn't care if they do.

                  Part of the culture is the use of strong language.  Finding your buttons and pushing 'em.  It may seem like hate, but it's like in the military: they make you face your weaknesses, your vulnerabilities.  For your own good.  At least, that's the principle.

                  One thing I appreciate about it is it desensitizes you to labels, allowing deeper meanings to emerge (when they are present).  So much of the point of this type of music is to emphasize the stereotypes so loudly that they lose their meanings.  They actually come to represent their own narrowness.

                  Check out Youngblood Brass Band.  One favorite song: Peace.  It's largely restrained, but not without barbs.  Plus, the brass band is, itself, quite good.

                  Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies. --Friedrich Nietzsche (Beyond Good and Evil)

                  by perspicio on Mon Oct 25, 2004 at 09:19:15 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  strong language (none / 0)

                    when American soldiers in Vietnam used the word 'gook' over and over and over, I don't think it helped them face their weaknesses. Since it dehumanized the enemy, maybe it helped them fight and stay alive. But outside of a battle zone...

                    by Erin on Tue Oct 26, 2004 at 08:09:30 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Point taken. (none / 0)

                      However, to my knowledge the strong language in this case has not been used to describe the group to whom it is usually applied.  Again, its an example of using stereotypes to push buttons rather than to perpetuate the stereotype.  Like blacks (and others) using the term "nigger" out of its "suthun'-racist" context.  It separates the word from its familiar context, and effectively helps to devalue the stereotype by robbing it of some of its impact.

                      Words are often confused with meanings.  And PC is born.

                      "It's just all in your mind, what you interpret it as
                      I say to fight you take it as I'm gonna whip someone's ass
                      If you don't understand don't even bother to ask..."

                      Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies. --Friedrich Nietzsche (Beyond Good and Evil)

                      by perspicio on Tue Oct 26, 2004 at 12:22:24 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                •  Gotta disagree (none / 1)

                  I would have to respectfully disagree...I don't think that any word is automatically derogatory in any context it happens to be used. Now I'm not a linguist, and I am not old enough to know myself, however my mother always used to tell me that when she was a child nobody said fuck, ever. It was just a word that registered with such magnitude with people that nobody used it. Now however it has been stripped of most of it's sexual connotation and is being used as an exclamation point (I let it slip ocaisionally in front of my boss and I do Microbiology research...).

                  For the most part faggot or fag or queer has morphed in much the same way. The word is a curse word because it used to be the harshest thing to say to someone who was gay. Now however it has that meaning but people in my generation and younger use it instead of asshole, that word has lost much of its punch. I'm not saying it can't be used as a dreogatory remark, and I'm not saying that Eminem hasn't used it as such, however from what I'm getting some here think it's derogatory, period, no discussion. I would have to disagree.

                  Fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity, only not as much fun.

                  by Toktora on Mon Oct 25, 2004 at 09:19:49 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

              •  It's a good point... (4.00 / 2)

                but I am a cocksucker.  As such, I think it's kind of a super thing to be, and don't personally feel its weight as an insult.  Perspective thing.  I know there are tons of queerboys who still use cocksucker to mean jerk.  I think it's kind of like using "gay" to say "dumb," personally.

                On the other hand, I toss around "Jesus Christ" like crazy but mean no ill will or disrespect towards Christians or their faith.  Offensive language is effective at airing strong negative emotions.

                "Compassion is an unstable emotion. It needs to be translated into action, or it withers." --Susan Sontag

                by spoooky on Mon Oct 25, 2004 at 09:43:11 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

    •  he's not a prick (4.00 / 2)

      the homophobia is played up by the media for ratings.  it isn't true.  he's just a guy trying to be controvertial to sell albums, but he also makes some really good points and he makes them well.

      Isn't a centrist just someone who doesn't have the balls to be a fanatic? -- Stephen Colbert

      by Muboshgu on Mon Oct 25, 2004 at 06:50:01 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  cya (none / 0)

        you seriously believe that?  media construction.  I've never once seen a media report on eminem.  cover his ass.  I don't care.  he is what he is.

        by seamus on Mon Oct 25, 2004 at 06:56:16 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  just curious (none / 1)

          it's not his lyrics, and it's not media reports... what is it then?  personal contact?

          strong infrastructure and fair play

          by pyrrho on Mon Oct 25, 2004 at 07:14:51 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  it is a media construct (none / 0)

          they seize on anything and blow it out of proportion for ratings.  if you never saw a media report on him, you werent paying attention a couple years ago.  when groups started protesting him, the media jumped on it and his record sales went up, and thats what it was all about.  then he went on stage with elton john and shut it up.

          Isn't a centrist just someone who doesn't have the balls to be a fanatic? -- Stephen Colbert

          by Muboshgu on Mon Oct 25, 2004 at 07:36:19 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Well, one way or another... (none / 1)

          one way or another you seem to know enough about Eminem to make your decision. Where did you get that information from, if not ultimately from a media company?

          I remember when Time magazine did one of their pieces on the evil violent content of rock music; this was just after Trent Reznor put out Further Down the Spiral. So, Time quotes lyrics from his song "Big man with a Gun" to show how nasty, evil Trent Reznor is encouraging kids to kill people.

          Anyone actually familiar with the song knows that it's exactly the opposite, a mockery of the violent badass cowboy mindset---but it's a mockery sung in the first person, so it's easy to grossly misinterpret. As someone said above, this is like quoting Pennywise from Stephen King's "IT" as representing King himself.

          Caj

          by Caj on Mon Oct 25, 2004 at 07:40:57 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  nin (none / 0)

            I am a real sucker for pieces in Time about the evils of rock music.  Are you serious?

            by seamus on Mon Oct 25, 2004 at 07:46:26 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  man, you sound like ken mehlman (3.00 / 4)

              You throw around insults but don't back them up. Eminem is not a "bigot" or an "idiot", and only somebody stuck in a tightwad thought control universe, adhering to politically correct speech, would think so. Just because a rapper says the word "bitch" doesn't mean they hate women or beat women, it's just the way people talk. The same thing with using the word "fag" as interchangable with "punk" or "wuss" or "asshole". It's rough language that I don't defend, but hell, I've used the words myself in the past and I have gay friends.

              Bob Dylan used the "n-word" in his song Hurricane, that doesn't mean he's a racist. He was there with MLK at the "I have a dream" speech. Artists should not be censored, especially if the whole message is a good one.

              I think half of Eminem's songs are trite and petty, but the ones where he actually takes himself seriously are damn good.

              Old Man McCain.com - the best McCain attack blog on the web!

              by existenz on Mon Oct 25, 2004 at 08:40:05 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  no (none / 1)

                First of all, if I was trying to be politically correct I wouldn't have called him a prick idiot.  You think Eminem and Dylan are edgy?  Give me a friggin' break.  God forbid you were introduced to the Dayglo abortions or something.

                Just because an artist is trying to be edgy doesn't mean they aren't bigots or pricks.  Your pc sensitivity seems to have difficulty understanding the difference between being an ass and being creative.  Just because you have gay friends doesn't mean you aren't being a bigoted ass.  

                The reason Dylan's use of the "n-word" isn't bigoted has nothing to do with whether or not he was at MLK's speech.  You can be at MLK's speech and still be a bigot.  Dylan's use of that word is proper because of the song itself which is about how black men are unjustly accused and about a particular instance.

                And just for the record, where did I suggest censoring Eminem?  Artists should not be censored but that doesn't mean they aren't jerks.  You'd think that Eminem was some sort of saint with idiots like you trolling me for insulting the ego of an egomaniac.

                by seamus on Tue Oct 26, 2004 at 07:52:54 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  I think (4.00 / 2)

                  that basically Eminem was a punk-ass kid with a hell of a lot of talent and no filter between his brain and his mouth.

                  I also think he's growing up, as this song and video show very clearly.

                  "Man is free at the moment he wishes to be." - Voltaire

                  by DrFrankLives on Tue Oct 26, 2004 at 08:08:10 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

    •  Old news (4.00 / 5)


      Dude, I think you're a little behind the times on eminem.

      He's no saint, but the guy's cleaned up his reputation on the bigot front.  Most people get that he's anti-hate but talks street.  It's a tightwalk.  But most PC-leaning progressives I know give him the benefit of the doubt these days.

      by CTDem2 on Mon Oct 25, 2004 at 06:52:10 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  With all of the peecee discussion... (4.00 / 5)

      ...couldn't the term for male genitalia (i.e. "prick") be considered offensive to some on this site? Perhaps we should refer to him by some other body part, such as a "toe" or an "eyeball" or a "liver"?

      I mention this, because I have heard people on this site take umbrage to the term "cocksucker" used in a derogatory fashion, and I now know bye reading comments here that some folks feel strongly that Mr. Eminem "sucks" (which seems to me to be just a variant of "cocksucker", although perhaps he is "sucking" something else other than male genitalia..)

      [ This politically correct stuff sure is tough to keep up with! ]

      So!! Can we all agree that at least some folks find this offering to be a great music video and perhaps even inspiring? Not all of us, but hey...

      I confess that I have, in the past, been pretty "pissed off" with Mr. Eminem, as well (perhaps there are some "urinary issues" here? ...Am I am offending people that can't hold their water?)

      I was concerned that Eminem seemed to be (according to the mainstream media) a misogynist. Be that as it may, I am happy to try to let bygones be bygones... to have him "clean up his act"... if such is the case (...although I don't want to discriminate against those folks out there that aren't as obsessively tidy as some others may be!).

      I am especially happy to let the "bygones" be whatever "bygones" are.. IF it will help us in our main goal, which is that of replacing Mr. Bush with Mr. Kerry!

      SO! Thank you for your help in this, Mr. Eminem!

      Q: How stupid can 51% of our country be? A: Pretty damned stupid.

      by wunderwood on Mon Oct 25, 2004 at 09:10:44 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  apparently (none / 0)

        apparently, calling him a prick is pc too!  Do you get that?

        seriously, all of what you say is quite funny and correct.  I never said it was bad that he did a video (that I haven't seen yet).  In fact my whole point was that it was good and that it was "too bad" that he was an "idiotic prick" because of he wasn't, that would be cooler!  Maybe I should call him Saint Eminem?

        by seamus on Tue Oct 26, 2004 at 07:56:59 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Jesus. Listen to yourselves. (