Daily Kos

Joe Biden's pathetic letter to the LA Times

Sun Mar 13, 2005 at 01:20:50 PM PDT

This was from Saturday's edition, but I didn't have a chance to express my displeasure until today.  Joe Biden (D-MBNA) has decided to attack back at those of us sane people who see his vote on the bankruptcy bill as a cynical cash payout to Delaware-based credit card companies.  He responded to a week-old Jonathan Chait article called "When Democrats Join the Dark Side," which used Biden and the bankruptcy bill as an example of how Democrats with narrow home-state business constituencies can get peeled off into Republican-backed measures.

Biden's retort is called "Bankruptcy Reform Bill Is A Bipartisan Effort" and it's sure to make you hurl.

In his zeal to attack the bankruptcy reform bill, Jonathan Chait's March 4 commentary, "When Democrats Join the Dark Side," mischaracterizes the legislation. In 2001, a similar bill passed the Senate 82 to 16. The provisions affecting consumer bankruptcy were identical to those Chait criticizes.

A similar bill passed in 2001, so Chait is not allowed to criticize it in 2005.  I see.

The Schumer amendment that killed the bill in previous years, seen as the best attempt to vote down this legislation, passed by 7 votes, 53-46.  Does that sound bipartisan to you?

At the outset, I refused to support bankruptcy reform until fundamental changes were made. I fought to establish a "safe harbor" for those below their state's median income. I also insisted on a provision requiring lenders to post a clear warning about the dangers of making minimum monthly payments, one of the worst debt traps for consumers.
This bill establishes unprecedented protections for child support and alimony, making bankruptcy part of the enforcement system for women and children, who now will be at the head of the line, in front of every other creditor. Is this bill perfect? No. But over several congresses it has earned the kind of bipartisan consensus only balanced legislation can achieve.

Biden sidesteps the issue of asset protection trusts (legal in his home state of Delaware), the struck-down amendments safeguarding military personnel and those with catastrophically large medical bills, the predatory lending practices of credit card companies (and their 30%-plus finance charges); in short, everything that Chait criticizes about the bill, in addition to most of us here.  This is the textbook definition of obfuscation, of not answering the question posed to you.

Not only is the bill "not perfect," Mr. Biden, it practically reverses bankruptcy protection in this country, and does nothing toward its intended goal, to reduce "abuse" of the system.  It's corporate welfare.  If you want to go on believing this is "not perfect" but sound, bipartisan legislation, you're welcome to do so.  And we're welcome to make sure that you are never elected to higher office.

Update [2005-3-14 0:32:44 by dday]: Thanks for rating this diary up today, guys. I want to call your attention to this diary by sipples, which I think is an excellent idea. Let's mail or fax our credit card statements (with the sensitive information crossed out, of course) to Joe Biden's office. Along with all those "pre-approved" offers we get in the mail ten at a time.

And while we're at it, it's time for us all to start picking some decent companies with whom to do our credit card business. I don't know if there are any. But it occurs to me that I've had an MBNA card since 1991. That gets cut up tomorrow.

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Permalink | 124 comments

  •  Great Diary (4.00 / 10)

    great catch, did you see Biden on Face the Nation this morning? He was praising Rice and pulling his usual stunts. I agree, we have to make sure that this man is never elected to higher office.
    •  we need to keep an ongoing list (none / 1)

      We need to keep track of these people, so that when they're up for reelection, we remember to look for a better candidate to support against them. Let's not forget these things that they're doing now.
    •  I hate Biden (4.00 / 2)

      My dislike started with Biden when he was so freaking patronizing to Anita Hill during the Clarence Thomas confirmation hearings. That dislike has grown to hate over the years. At the 2000 convention while Gore was being nominated Biden was out campaigning for himself for Pres. for 2004, openly. He also did much to sabatoge the Kerry campaign. Why anyone considers him a friend, or a liberal Democrat for that matter is beyond me. I simply can not stand to see his face on every single talk show because he speaks from both sides of his mouth. Fortunatly even through the hardest of times, we never had to file bankrupcy, but most Americans are just one medical bill away from bankrupcy. This bill does nothing to help the average American, but it does plenty to help the Credit Card companies. I guess they paid for it with the huge campaign contributions to both sides. I wonder who will be the next Senator or Congressman to go over to the dark side and become some big shot exectutive in one of the leading Credit Card companies or Banks. Maybe I am old fashioned, but I still beleive it is our hard earned tax dollars that pay the salaries of these Senators and Congresspeople, we are their employers, and they should be working for us, and instituting laws that benefit the majority of Americans, not a few rich fat cats. They should all be fired. And Joe Biden should be the first to go!!!
  •  comments (4.00 / 8)

    Also, did anybody see Lieberman's absolutely pathetic response to the bankruptcy bill?  He voted against final passage, but for cloture (when voting no would have mattered), and is trying now to take credit for being against the bill.  Pathetic.

    Our elected leaders have to we won't tolerate this.

    D-Day, the newest blog on the internet (at the moment of its launch)

    by dday on Sun Mar 13, 2005 at 01:10:24 PM PDT

    •  these guys will run in 08... (4.00 / 4)

      I have been pretty disapointed with Senators biden and clinton in the recent months.  But they're both going to run in 08.  Is this the best our party can do?

      If you can't stand the heat, don't play with matches.

      by DawnG on Sun Mar 13, 2005 at 01:34:59 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Feingold might be an exception (4.00 / 9)

        but haven't we learned how hard it is for a senator to be elected president? Except for Feingold and Boxer, the current crop are far too compromised and corrupted to make an effective run.

        Time to look at governors, current, former and (Spitzer) future!

        •  totally agree (none / 1)

          Carter, Reagan, Clinton, Bush.  Governorship is a formula for Presidential success.  The only thing to worry about is GOP bashing of the "not experienced in foreign policy" variety.  Then again, it's not like Kerry exactly helped his own cause on that one.

          D-Day, the newest blog on the internet (at the moment of its launch)

          by dday on Sun Mar 13, 2005 at 01:49:36 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Why we should not be supporting aSenator for Pres. (3.80 / 5)

            Yes,

            We want someone with foreign policy experience, who has demonstrated executive leadership, someone who has no long history of compromising votes.

            A Governor (but again no foreign policy or military experience) or how about

            Former NATO Saceur, 4 star General, Rhodes scholar, businessman and investor in alternative energy:

            General Wesley K. Clark

        •  Feingold for President (4.00 / 5)

          Feingold had his annual birthday party in Madison, WI. today which I attended. I asked him whether his wife was less opposed to him running for higher office than she used to be. He told me once that his wife had reservations about him running for President. He replied today that she was warming to the idea a little bit. Let's please let him know that we would support his run and maybe he'll do it. I believe that he would make a fine President.

          We must be the change we wish to see in the world. - Gandhi

          by left of center on Sun Mar 13, 2005 at 02:15:29 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  How did he vote on Iraq and its funding? n/t (none / 0)

            •  Feingold voted (4.00 / 2)

              Against the resolution to authorize force against Iraq (that Kerry and Edwards voted for), but he's been voting in favor of funding it since then.

              Internet, n., A series of tubes invented by Al Gore; not a truck. "I mailed an Internet to my friend."

              by Viktor on Sun Mar 13, 2005 at 02:45:55 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  Feingold is top seed (4.00 / 2)

            for me, he has been ever since he distinguished himself as the only Senator with the balls (or ova, as the case may be)  to vote nay on that horrid PATRIOT Act. In a nation so swept up by fear and rage, it took great courage and conviction to come down in favor of the rights of the people.

            I'd love to see Feingold run for President. I'd also love to see him pick Clark or Spitzer as his VP.

            So, what's the good word on exploratory?

            Time flies, whether you're having fun or not.

            by Kimberley on Sun Mar 13, 2005 at 04:18:45 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  Glad to see this diary. Especially after (none / 0)

        the disturbing appearance of a front page diary which was busy extolling Bush SS enabler Sen. Ben Nelson (NE) for NOT attacking Dems on MTP when he discussed SS with Sen Chafee, (who is more progressive, with us on this too, and also just happened to be the one with the R after his name ...). The diary and posts cheered Nelson as a good example for Lieberman. He should take lessons from Benator! (Just our luck, Lieberman WILL copy Nelson, except it will be his voting record, and he will vote three times more conservatively than he already does.)

        So now, even though you vote with Repubs the most, and are the lone non signatory saying private accounts from SS are off the table, as long as you just dont attack other Dems, you are A-Ok with ... Democrats on this site? God, is this what it has come to?

        Nelson (NE) is the guy who voted against every single bankruptcy amendment, even more than Biden, which is pretty hard to do. He and Byrd were the only two to vote against Schumer's poison pill amendment. Voted for cloture and for the bill.

        And yeah, Biden has been a big disappointment. I remember him going around before the war, a few scoldings about the how, but generally helpful to the hawks, waiting for the outcome ... saying, "Well, technically, they (BushCo) are on legal ground"

        Please, please, please keep up the good work of naming and blaming these sell outs for what they are doing to us. Do not let it fade away. I will write the letter to my rep, again -- already wrote to my trio on the Hill a few weeks before the the bill came to the floor..  

        We can swamp Biden and all of the enablers on Congress.Org http://www.congress.org/congressorg/dbq/officials/directory/directory.dbq?command=congdir
         too. Those emails are sent to them and put out in the open. I dont know why more people dont take advantage of it as a shaming tool.

        Fill up their mailboxes (or rather, the public square). Show your outrage in the title, so it doesnt even have to be clicked on to send the message.

        Here's a mailing list:

        Dem Names to Blame for Bankruptcy Bill Cloture Vote

        YEAs

        Biden (DE)
        Byrd (WV)
        Carper (DE)
        Conrad (ND)
        Johnson (SD)
        Kohl (WI)
        Landrieu (LA)
        Lieberman (CT)
        Lincoln (AR)
        Nelson (FL)
        Nelson (NE)
        Pryor (AR)
        Salazar (CO)
        Stabenow (MI)

        Dem Names to Blame for Banruptcy Bill Votes: S.256

        YEAs

        Baucus (D-MT)
        Bayh (D-IN)
        Biden (D-DE)
        Bingaman (D-NM)
        Byrd (D-WV)
        Carper (D-DE)
        Conrad (D-ND)
        Inouye (D-HI)
        Johnson (D-SD)
        Kohl (D-WI)
        Landrieu (D-LA)
        Lincoln (D-AR)
        Nelson (D-FL)
        Nelson (D-NE)
        Pryor (D-AR)
        Reid (D-NV)
        Salazar (D-CO)
        Stabenow (D-MI)


         

        Should a "progressive" Dem blog dwell in the safe zones of a tame party, or should it drive a tame party to break out?

        by NYCee on Sun Mar 13, 2005 at 09:52:51 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Best the Democrats can do in 2008? (none / 0)

        I sure hope not. No sitting Senator will win the Presidency. Too vulnerable due to all the votes he or she has cast.

        Besides the guy in Montana, who do we have as Governor who might get promoted?

        Democrats stand for Liberty, Security, Support of Families and Opportunity Whiskey Tango Foxtrot - over

        by Rick B on Mon Mar 14, 2005 at 06:41:10 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  There is an upside (4.00 / 13)

      10 years ago, nobody would have caught Leiberman's little trick. Only the inner most insiders would have followed the cloture vote that carefully. Now, a vote on cloture is a major issue to a lot of people who don't even watch c-span.

      Slowly but surely, politiblog is tearing down the curtain around the legislature and starting to hold representatives to account. This is a mini-revolution.

      Now all we need is a good website that tracks congress in a simple, easy to use way. Thomas, congress' own tracking site, is as easy to use as a spectrometer. I would think it's deliberately so except I've used NASA and the Library of Congress websites and they're not much better.

      It could still be deliberate though.

        •  Yeah (4.00 / 3)

          And I just went back and tried it again. While I strongly support the effort, it is still illogically laid out and vastly incomple in my opinion.

          But it appears to be a work in progress and I appreciate you recalling it to my attention.

          Mostly, I couldn't find Senate votes on this site. Maybe I'm missing something but it shouldn't be that hard.

          Also, the congressional votes I checked didn't have info about the bills or any supporting data. But it at least had who voted and how in a pretty accessable format which is more than I can say for Thomas.

          If I could design it it would be simple.

          Senate, House

          List of bills in real name, s#, and searchable subject.

          When you find one you want to check out, It has the text of the bill, who voted how in easily sortable by party. As in Ds who voted yeay, Ds who vote Nay etc.

          Then, really cool, a threaded comments section below each bill so we could thrash it.

          Check out this page on Washington Votes.org where they have a lively discussion about a bill in Wa. state legislature. This is an incredible idea.

          Except it's missing who voted for what. Or at least I can't find it.

          So imagine a site where you could scroll the latest bills, or search for "bankruptcy reform act" and when you click that entry you get the text, how members voted, which IMO is the most important thing, and a nice threaded comment section below.

          Also, my imaginary site would not be bipartisan. It would be a dem site with advocacy. It would be a real easy way with a few clicks to see which Dems sold us out, betrayed their party and deserve to be challenged in the primary.

          •  And one other thing (4.00 / 2)

            It should have some good analysis of the bill so people won't have to read the whole thing to know what it does.

            This isn't my idea really so I don't mind saying, this is a friggin revolutionary idea. Especially incorporated into dKos. No, the WIKI won't work. At least not without some serious modification to the software.

            This would engage people into the legislative process in a never seen before way and throw a big giant spotlight on congress that they so desperately need.

          •  Tracking senators and members of congress (none / 1)

            Is there a reliable source of information on who voted for what?

            GovTrack's site says that they assemble their information from various not always reliable sources.

            I would be willing to put together a database for this voting information if someone will help out by looking into sources of data.

            Ideally we would somehow be able to get voting data automatically for each senator or representative. If that's not possible, or not reliable, we might need to recruit volunteers to put in data on a regular basis from some human-readable source(s).

            The latter would be a lot of work, but maybe there would be a way to split it up among many people so that each person only has to do a little bit. Imagine 437 people putting in vote data on their own representative. Nah, there must be an easier way!

            "This document is totally non-redactable and non-segregable and cannot even be meaningfully described." *

            by dratman on Sun Mar 13, 2005 at 07:27:48 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  excellent point (4.00 / 5)

        10 years ago, nobody would have caught Leiberman's little trick.

        hell, 5 years ago or even two. I know this because it's been making me crazy for a long time now.
        I got a good laugh out of Cokie Roberts the other day on NPR when she was complaining about Bloggers. Her main discomfort appeared to be that we are "questioning everything" (the disapproval in her voice was palpable). We must be annoying a great many people and clearly the annoyance is bipartisan:)

        Now all we need is a good website that tracks congress in a simple, easy to use way.

        Truely excellent idea.

      •  One gov't website that works well: (none / 1)

        nps.gov, the National Park Service's  site; of course, if they don't get more money in the future, who knows?

        "There is no god, and I am his prophet." SocraticGadfly

        by steverino on Sun Mar 13, 2005 at 03:17:06 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  I used it today, and it was not so nice (Thomas) (none / 0)

        You know, I thought the bankruptcy bill had passed early in 2001. I remember watching Wellstone screaming (wonderfully, in that way of his) against it during debate, about how bad it was for working people. The ergonomics bill was up too. Then I heard it had passed. And then a friend told me last year it hadnt, as we were discussing his own exp with Chapter 7.

        I came to learn via a nice little sum up from Bill Scher on MR that many more Dems voted for it then than this time( eg Hillary, Schumer, Leahy, Murray, Mulkowski and so on.). It went to the House with Schumer's poison pill amended on and just about got thru there too, in dealings, but a few righties just couldnt let the prolifers down in the end, I guess, so the pill prevailed. Weird.

        Anyway, Scher was saying that the senators, back then, were all going around praising it and acting disappointed,  saying, "Oh dear, this great bill got defeated?" Said that many of them have helped fashion it behind the scenes, to push it thru, even up till now. That disgusts me.

        So, what is the deal?  Odd that many flipped away from it this time. Do you think it is because of the re-energized base that so many more wouldnt put their names to it this time, they wish to lay low? You think they realize how bad things have gotten for the NONwealthy under Bush, that people cant be squeezed much more? That things are gonna get worse and this was one of the last resorts for a nation of a majority without a quality Europeanized safety net below it? What gives here?

        It was still too many voting Yea on this one (18), but last time it was twice as many. Thirty-six Dem YEAs in 2001.

        The Small Club of GOOD Senatorial Votes against the bankruptcy bill in 2001 were:

        Democrats Who Voted No:

        Jon Corzine, N.J.; Mark Dayton, Minn.; Chris Dodd, Conn.; Dick Durbin, Ill.; Russ Feingold, Wis.; Tom Harkin, Iowa; Ted Kennedy, Mass.; John Kerry, Mass (ah! The Kerry I used to like so much).; Bill Nelson, Fla.; Jack Reed, R.I.; John Rockefeller, W.Va.; Paul Sarbanes, Md.; Paul Wellstone, Minn.

        Honorable mention:

        Not Voting:
        Barbara Boxer (California)

        Common Dreams wrote a very good tough piece on this 2001 Dem sell out behavior with links to each one's email.  

        Should a "progressive" Dem blog dwell in the safe zones of a tame party, or should it drive a tame party to break out?

        by NYCee on Sun Mar 13, 2005 at 10:43:33 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Read my diary about something else Biden shot down (4.00 / 8)

    Preventing credit plaintiffs from court=shopping.

    "There is no god, and I am his prophet." SocraticGadfly

    by steverino on Sun Mar 13, 2005 at 01:13:52 PM PDT

  •  I share your outrage (4.00 / 3)

    I like Biden a lot, seems like a good guy.  Therefore, he has to do $hit like this.

    Just like McCain,Daschle, etc.; my support for and loyalty to these characters is erroding...

    I'm not so liberal that I unwaveringly support capitulators.

    by hfiend on Sun Mar 13, 2005 at 01:20:15 PM PDT

    •  Welcome to the world of politics (4.00 / 3)

      where things are more complicated than in the blogosphere.

      It took hardline conservatives 30 years to build a majority, progressives will not achieve this in 30 days. People like Biden and Lieberman are going to stick with us for a while, until we leave them behind some years from now. Patience..

      Conservatism = greed, hate, fear and ignorance

      by Joe B on Sun Mar 13, 2005 at 02:54:57 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I left Biden behind (none / 1)

        the day he voted against, or hid in the cloakroom on the amendments.  Notice how short that letter was?  Because there isn't anything to defend.  Yes, with the Senate majority, that bill was going to pass.  But the amendments had a shot except for Biden and the other Dems who voted against them (See Maryscott's excellent diary on the subject).  To not even help the elderly, the sick, the military....the sound of his name makes me ill.  President?  Oh, please...

        We do not rent rooms to Republicans.

        by Mary Julia on Sun Mar 13, 2005 at 03:54:09 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Not to mention (none / 1)

          Telling Condi he was going to vote for her confirmation no matter how much she lied to him personally during her confirmation hearing.

          You gotta love that. Way to show some self-respect, Joe.

          •  Good Point (none / 1)

            I believe he voted for Condi because he didn't want to run for prez in 08 w/ the charge that he didn't vote for an African American woman for Sec. of State.  His calculation was that political.  She obviously isn't fit for the job.

            But I lost my respect for him when he voted for the damn war.  How was I able to know just from searching on the web that Iraq probably didn't have any WMD, at least none of any real consequence, and he didn't in the Senate?  

            My hunch is that like many politicians the popular supports for the war stunned Biden into acquiescence and he feared that a swift and decisive victory would simply make the eventual debate about the justification for the war seem carping.  Oddly, the Iraqi resistance has liberated political discourse in the USA to make the question about the war's justification acceptable.  

            So that's another thing Joe miscalculated: the Iraqi resistance.

            The biggest private employer in DE is MBNA.  And MBNA has some of the most usurious interest rates in the nation.  Joe cast this vote for corps like MBNA.  It's disgusting

            Dana Garrett http://delawarewatch.blogspot.com/

            by Dana Garrett on Sun Mar 13, 2005 at 06:57:40 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Sick of Joe (none / 0)

              When it comes down to crunch time, when action is truly needed, Joe Biden is as big of a coward as they come.

              I refer to his vote on the war and his vote on the Bankruptcy bill.

              I remember his comments before Bush's War against Iraq. Even after Bush's lies were out for all to see, after Colon Powell was lying about tubes et al., Joe Biden was blathering that, if he were a prosecutor, he'd have enough evidence against Saddam to attack. However Joe then looked gravely into the camera and muttered that Bush better be thinking of the post-war!

              Typical Biden bullshit, playing two sides of the fence - if the war goes swimmingly for Bush he is then in Il Duce's favor. If it goes bad he can say "I told you so!"

              Now Biden has the nerve to write this letter, saying how we are supposed to love him for inserting some cat droppings into this atrocious bill that is aimed squarely at the US middle class, but lets the wealthiest, including Sir Joe, get out of their debts.

              Biden thinks because he yells at Republicans once in a while during committee sessions and he is friends with Don Imus we are supposed to support him as a "leading Democrat".

              To hell with Biden.

              "I don't think riding in a fighter plane and getting shot down is a qualification to be president." -Gen. Clark

              by assyrian64 on Sun Mar 13, 2005 at 08:57:30 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  He is simply an idiot! (none / 1)

            And guilty of plagerism too.
  •  I don't know why people continue to be surprised (4.00 / 10)

    We're talking about the senator who single-handedly derailed the opposition to the Clarence Thomas nomination with his wimpy "You have the benefit of the doubt" speech.
    •  A major league phony (4.00 / 11)

      This was re: Ashcroft's refusal to release the Alberto Gonzales memo whooshing his magic wand for Master and making the inconvenient Geneva Convention, and the Constitution's section regarding international agreements, disappear.

      Biden to Ashcroft: "There's a reason why we sign these treaties: To protect my son in the military. That's why we have these treaties -- so when Americans are captured, They Are Not Tortured."

      Fast forward ...

      Biden to Alberto Gozales: "I like you. You're the real deal."

      Biden was not wearing thumb screws at the time.

    •  Exactly right. (none / 1)

      And no, I'm not over it.  Biden was also the person who chose to limit the testimony about Clarence Thomas to a couple of days.  More than any other thing, this is what made it possible for them to stuff Thomas down our throats.  Biden let us down when he was in a position to make a difference.  Why should we think he'll be any different as president?
  •  Faux Outrage (4.00 / 3)

    Biden didn't even try to do anything other than give himself a pretty skimpy fig leaf.

    In the week that he voted for this mess, Citicorp announced the closure of a credit card service center here in DE, to lay off almost 500 people.  So his vote for this business has everything to do with campaign contributions -- not jobs for his state.

    How does he explain the efforts to make this bill more human?  He voted against all of the amendments, right?  He had a chance to make it more perfect and blew the opportunity.

    He would not support efforts to make the companies more accountable for the credit risks they take -- instead opting to immunize these companies from the risks they work so hard to extend.

    What an embarrassment.

    Ignorance, allied with power, is the most ferocious enemy justice can have. - James Baldwin

    by cassandra m on Sun Mar 13, 2005 at 01:47:46 PM PDT

    •  there is a good side - - primaries '08 (none / 1)

      and all the crowd carping "kerry / gore / dukakis is a moderate, and moderates are electable ..." will band around joey do nothing good for the little guy, because he is a "moderate", and they won't be involved in screwing up the selection of a good candidate ...

      and then they'll be the ones stuck voting for someone they don't think they should like cuz the DLC will be whispering in russert's and nagourney's ears that the good candidate isn't "electable"

      I am looking forward to the debate with the "we gotta have a moderate or we'll lose" crowd, and they'll be wearing biden buttons.

      bob.  

      •  since I have given up on 2008 anyway, (4.00 / 3)

        if they don't even try to talk to us, and by us I consider myself a moderate, but not a Biden and liberman type of dem (my word would be sellout, but that may be too strong)in the grassroots who want to fight back at these people who are pushing our government not for strong defense, but for corporate handout of everything America stands for --

        then I will sit on my hands for national offices and vote only for state held offices because obviously that is where the power resides to provide fair elections.  

        States control the machines and the people who watch those machines.

        with Dean being out, NOT ONE SINGLE DEM running for higher office other than spitzer has even attempted to fight back policy wise.

        •  Think About Biden's Response (4.00 / 2)

          ...in light of 2008.

          Does that letter sound like the kind of response that might go over on the campaign trail?  This was an insincere effort to get people to lay off because this was something that repubs and Dems could agree on.

          I know I keep hearing that Biden is thinking about running, but he can't be overly serious, right?  He keeps voting for special interests but only talking like a Dem on late night TV.  Does this sounds like somebody who has serious aspirations?

          Ignorance, allied with power, is the most ferocious enemy justice can have. - James Baldwin

          by cassandra m on Sun Mar 13, 2005 at 02:57:01 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  $$$ to run (none / 1)

            >>I know I keep hearing that Biden is thinking about running, but he can't be overly serious, right?  He keeps voting for special interests but only talking like a Dem on late night TV.  Does this sounds like somebody who has serious aspirations?<<

            Sounds like someone who intends to run for prez and knows who has the bucks to butter his campaign's bread.

            Dana Garrett http://delawarewatch.blogspot.com/

            by Dana Garrett on Sun Mar 13, 2005 at 07:16:17 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  Don't rule out Spitzer (none / 1)

          Remember how after Nixon and Watergate we elected Jimmy Carter. The people wanted someone who was honest. I think after 4 more years of Bush and his corporate give-aways, the people will want someone who is so anti-corprate, and anti-corruption. Spitzer might just be the only viable candidate. I hope so, I think he is from the old school of fighting for the people.
      •  Right on! (none / 1)

        We should let these corporate lackeys know NOW that if their propaganda arm trys to stick Biden,  Hillary Clinton,  Evan Bayh, or any other DLC/warmonger/corporate power freak down our throats,  we'll guarantee defeat.   In other words,  THEY'RE the ones who are "unelectable."

        On the other hand,  as Kerry's premature concession and millions left in the bank proved,  winning maybe isn't that important to these members of the country club.   Politics for them is just a big game.  

      •  Excellent! (none / 0)

        This is going to all my friends in Delaware!

        Thank you...

        Ignorance, allied with power, is the most ferocious enemy justice can have. - James Baldwin

        by cassandra m on Sun Mar 13, 2005 at 02:58:28 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  I saved that as: (4.00 / 2)

        "Joe Biden-Credit Card Whore"

        "There is no god, and I am his prophet." SocraticGadfly

        by steverino on Sun Mar 13, 2005 at 03:19:21 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Finally! (4.00 / 2)

        That's how I have been seeing those people for years. I'm an old NASCAR fan (although I haven't watched a race since Air Force One showed up last year, made me gag...)

        But that's how I see people here look at dems. Just like NASCAR fans look at their favorite driver. NASCAR makes some minor rule during the preseason that effects the cars, and from then on, everyone fights and argues and complains. The Chevy camp is upset because they are no longer winning. The Ford camp says things are finally equal. Pontiac whines. A 5-degree change in spoilers is made.

        Every year, the same arguments. Everyone gets bent out of shape because Ford/Chevy/Pontiac has a supposed advantage. It's a billion dollar industry. The drivers are all legends. It all means nothing.

        The rich are getting richer, the poor are getting poorer. Wars continue.

        Maybe if everytime you name a politician, you listed the top two monetary supporters (like NASCAR) it would be more fun.

        Here is MBNA/TRIDENT Biden talking about defense.

        And here is Time/Warner Pelosi talking about media concerns...

        •  Excellent (none / 1)

          I seem to recall saying back in the primaries that someone should do a mock up of NASCAR race cars for Team Bush/Cheney covered with the appropriate corporate logos..

          I don't follow any more but Earnhardt was one of my biggest heroes back in middle school.  My dad's a big race fan, and I had a good friend whose firefighter dad was a massive, massive Earnhardt fan & took their whole family to see races at the Poconos whenever they could.  Also, Earnhardt made the other guys wreck a lot, and I thought that was pretty cool.  I kind of became disenchanted after watching four or five straight Daytona 500's with really high hopes, and every year some stroke of bad luck stopped him from winning - the nadir was the year he hit a damn SEAGULL which kind of, uh, splattered some stuff into the engine.

          Thanks to all the corporate money, the sport is losing everything that made it what it is, the particular cultural Southernness of it that I can't put my finger on.. But even back in the early 90's when I desperately wanted to go see Earnhardt race, my parents couldn't afford the tickets.  It'd how much to see your average a race now for a family of four?  

          Yeah, we should do corporate sponsored NASCAR cars for the whole damn Congress.

  •  He has (4.00 / 2)

    doomed himself.

    Overthrow the Government ~Vote~

    by missliberties on Sun Mar 13, 2005 at 01:59:10 PM PDT

  •  He knows this is going to bite him in 2008 n/t (none / 1)

  •  Barbara Boxer in 2008. (4.00 / 4)

    Barbara Boxer seems to have more guts than any of her fellow senators.

    At this point she is the only one I would even consider for a 2008 run.

  •  Biden is scared... (4.00 / 9)

    so he obviously felt the need to respond.  His running for President was always a bad idea, now it would be an abomination.

    I am tired of this crap.  Whenever the Dems have to defend a vote that betrays their base, they always say "no bill is perfect".  Just like with the Medicare bill.

    Well you know what, with the priveleges these guys in the Senate have, I expect a bit of perfection now and then.  Just one question for Joe - "why was this bill necessary and how does it help the American people?"

    Say so long, Joe, your ship has sailed.  And I hope some of your staff stop by this diary to find out exactly how we feel about you.

    Any party that would lie to start a war would also steal an election.

    by landrew on Sun Mar 13, 2005 at 02:07:30 PM PDT

  •  I feel so low (4.00 / 6)

    The Democratic party has lost me for the time being.

    Our system is horribly broke, and the Democratic party is part of the problem.  This is so sad but so true.  The "average American" does not have a voice in the political system.  The Dems proved themselves to be nearly as whorish to their corporate overlords as the GOP.

    Where in God's name is Dean btw?

    Even David Broder of all people know the fix is in.

    Great Column at:
    http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/opinion/2002205726_broder13.html

    •  Where in the World Is Howard Dean (none / 0)

      You're asking? Tut, tut ...

      Howard Dean is chairman of the DNC. Part of his job description is to offer support to all members of the party. As such, he cannot involve himself in a public smackdown of a senior senator.

      I suspect this was a major reason Kos preferred Simon Rosenberg for the chairmanship.  Dr. Dean would not be silent about these betrayals if he did not need to worry about appearances.

      We've got to become a little more patient, as it'll take time (months? years?) before party discipline happens.

      The next fantasy: Obama/Dean (please let it be)

      by wystler on Sun Mar 13, 2005 at 10:14:10 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  LOL: D-MBNA (none / 1)

    Ha ha ha haaaaa

    Weep weep weep.

    And no, it's not corporate welfare, not even for MBNA. It simply is a self-slaughter of everyone's standard of living. We could say it was "fairer" if planes were made only as safe as cars, but doing so, no one would fly anymore.

    You can't be on the team, if you're not in the choir. Sorry.

    by peeder on Sun Mar 13, 2005 at 02:19:47 PM PDT

  •  Hike, Biden should take one and (4.00 / 6)

    be a LOBBYIST, for real.  Shift to K Street.  Give up the fake fight.  Stop chortling about a war he helped pave th way to...

    "Bi-Partisanship" is code for sellout.  Sold out.

    •  Norquist says Bipartisanship =Date Rape (4.00 / 2)

      I'd say a fairly accurate description of this circumstance. But the real people getting screwed by this didn't even realize it happened because they were too worried about those gay married terrorist and distracted by Dear Leader out on his 60 day Bamboozlepalooza Tour trying to destroy and steal their social security.
  •  the only way (none / 1)

    to explain the cognitive dissonance between Biden's often liberal talk and his support of dark side in everything from his role in the Anita Hill Hearings to support of the bankruptcy bill is they are blackmailing the dude.

    Who controls the past, controls the future. Who controls the present, controls the past. George Orwell

    by moon in the house of moe on Sun Mar 13, 2005 at 02:29:50 PM PDT

  •  It's As If They Don't Comprehend That (4.00 / 3)

    ever since Reagan, siding with Republicans actually moves the nation to the right. They seem to speak of all legislation as solutions to problems, solutions that simply vary in their thoroughness or effectiveness.

    Republican legislation does solve one problem very well. What did Ronald Reagan say "the problem" is?

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Sun Mar 13, 2005 at 03:16:40 PM PDT

  •  What is smarmy about Biden's letter (4.00 / 5)

    is his faux concern that consumers avoid the "minimum payment due" trap. If he was really concerned about "debt traps" for consumers he would have required MBNA and its ilk to charge a fair interest rate rather than 20% to 30% of the debt and he would outlaw flat fee charges  for a late payment. The interest rates and bogus charges are a big reason many consumers can't afford to pay much more than the "minimum amount due." A warning accomplishes nothing. Those late fee charges and "transaction charges" -- which are tantamount to an annual interest rate measured in the hundreds of percentage points -- are a huge scam. And Biden knows it.

    Biden is a smart guy -- something you cannot say about every Senator. He is articulate. He knows the difference between right and wrong. He just doesn't have the fortitude to consistently do the right thing. What a waste of talent.

    "Mr. President, I'm not saying we wouldn't get our hair mussed." General Buck Turgidson

    by muledriver on Sun Mar 13, 2005 at 03:17:15 PM PDT

    •  Aren't we all... (none / 0)

      ...(males, at least) the sons of turgid bucks?  

      Oh, wait; is that just another Guckert pseudonym?  The quote makes sense if that's the case.

      "Well, yeah, the Constitution is worth it if you can succeed." -Nancy Pelosi, 6/29/07.

      by nailbender on Sun Mar 13, 2005 at 04:52:54 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Goodbye Joe (4.00 / 4)

    Can we take up a collection to get Biden to join the Democratic Party.  Any real Democrat should work to defeat him.  

    If he gets the nomination, vote for Pee Wee Herman, won't make a bit of difference.  Biden is nothing but a bald Condi Rice.

    Screw you, Joe.  Thank you and the rest of your puppets for doing nothing for the American People.

    Don't worry, Bush will give you a big wet kiss.

  •  Don't Be So Hard on Biden (4.00 / 6)

    Senator Biden just doesn't know that, after years of making minimally effective monthly payments in the Senate, there's no possible way in his lifetime that he'll dig himself out of his own hole to become President.
  •  In his Defense (none / 0)

    Many on this site (including kos himself) have pointed out that this is a bill that most of Delware probably supports.  If anything Biden and Carper may be the only politicians in the country who actually voted in the interest of their constituents - the residents of Delaware on this bill.  

    Credit card companies are a huge factor in the Delware economy and asking Biden to vote against them is unrealistic and politically foolish.  

    •  yeah right (4.00 / 2)

      The credit card industry is the most profitable one in the United States with annual earnings in the $30 billion range.  Many people might be surprised to learn that a single credit card issuer -- MBNA -- earned 1.5 times more profit than McDonalds in 2004.  Citibank, another major credit card issuer, earns more profit than both Microsoft and Walmart.

      Joe couldn't stand by and let those billions slip away, now could he?

    •  re- In his defence (4.00 / 2)

      That line of reason would make more sense if this bill did actual damage to the credit card industry, but it doesn't. Biden has a responsibility to represent his home constituency
      but he also has a equal responsibility to do what is best for the country in whole.

      "We're turning out to be a scrappy little team." -Barack Obama

      by folgers on Sun Mar 13, 2005 at 05:07:04 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  About Delaware (4.00 / 4)

        Last I checked, Delaware also has lots of middle class folks who are struggling to make ends meet, paying credit card bills, living paycheck-to-paycheck, working hard, and, occasionally, suffering a catastrophe (such as huge medical bills or divorce).

        I just described the vast majority of Delaware's citizenry, in fact. Perhaps Senator Biden doesn't represent them either.

    •  Right, and it's also foolish... (4.00 / 2)

      ...to expect Michigan Dems to vote for the SUV CAFE standards upgrade.  Pigshit.

      I live in Miane where MBNA has established what appear now to be temporary offices (some of which, in less than 10 years, have already been abandoned) and where they are the prime employer in certain regions. In my town, they donated a highschool auditorium, a library and dozens of  other benefactions.  Still, they are considered (for good, historical reasons) fickle and arbitrary, garnering a popularity about analagous to road salt.

      Still, Maine's two GOPher Senators are adept at the MBNA kowtow; Snowe's hubby even gets a 1098 Form from them.  Indeed, they are many things to many people, but MBNA ("Money Buys Nearly Anybody," in local slang) is nothing if not an effiecent campaign-fund-generation-machine, its broad donor base in their soon-to-be-transfered middle management corps, shimmering like a big tree full of ripe cherries in early summer.  Ahhh!

      What isn't realistic to expect, actually, is that trough-slopping corporate shills will act like public servants (let alone statesmen or women) when the chips are down, regardless of whether they color themselves red or blue.   Biden will be known (if he is remembered at all) as the guy who shafted an upright Anita Hill in order to bestow a lifetime of power and prestige to a guy with Dan Quayle's depth Bob Guccione's rectitude.  He will be remembered as a politician whose smirk was never as far from his demeanor as his principles were.  Similarly, in that committee hearing episode caught on NPR last month with Harvard professor Elizabeth Warren, he managed to be drippingly condescending, cutting her off even as she decimated his argument.  He is as hollow as he is feckless.

      I guess there needs to be three parties, two to fight over the corporate scatterings on the floors of the halls of the Capitol, and one to actually work for the people, taking no money whatsoever from corporations.  We could call the latter party the "Democratic Party" (the name would, in that case, fit, no?) and the other two could be called the Republicans and the New Republicans.  They could fight over who gets to be called which, and they could also fight for the overclass' favor and largess.  That's about the only way to separate the real Dems from the nominal ones.  

      So, why the hell are we only saying Biden won't have a snowball's chance to get the '08 nomination?  He shouldn't even get re-elected to the Senate.  Let the two Republican parties fight over the likeable, doublespeaking jokers with smirking moral patinas and short, fat donor lists (am I describing a Senator, or a President?).

      "Well, yeah, the Constitution is worth it if you can succeed." -Nancy Pelosi, 6/29/07.

      by nailbender on Sun Mar 13, 2005 at 06:13:01 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  wud you like some freedom fries with that? (none / 1)

        ...and one (party) to actually work for the people, taking no money whatsoever from corporations....
        Which could be called the "If a tree falls in the woods party". What we actually need are publicly financed political campaigns.
    •  No Democrat should be holding office in Mordor. (none / 1)

      it isn't, uh, Hobbitish...
    •  I have my doubts about that (4.00 / 3)

      I'm from DE and I'm not convinced that most people here would support this bill.  We don't all work for credit card companies and even then I'm not sure that most employees in credit card companies would support it.  I used to teach them when I was an adjunct prof at a local college.  You'd be surprised what many of the credit card employee/students would say about the business practices of their companies.

      My instinct is that vote was for the big donors.  It's their interests that Biden & Carper were serving.

      Dana Garrett http://delawarewatch.blogspot.com/

      by Dana Garrett on Sun Mar 13, 2005 at 07:28:53 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  You left something out. (none / 0)

      It was the right thing to do to vote against the credit companies and for the American people.
      Biden sold his soul long, long ago, and now it is time for him to pay. I will never vote for him for President, even if I have to vote Republican. Which is the hardest thing for me to do, but to keep him out I will do it.
    •  that excuse MAY work for joe (none / 0)

      but what about the other 17?
  •  This is absolutely, positively... (4.00 / 2)

    ...the beginning of Joe Biden's aggressive run to the middle.  In its own entirely self-serving way, it's smart.  He sees the schism in the Democratic party for what it is, and knows that it's either going to be a Republican Lite, centrist candidate in '08 (backed by corporate money), or it's going to be a genuine reform candidate (backed by grassroots money).  In an honest assessment of his political persona he realizes that he's carried too much Republican water to run credibly as a reform candidate, so he's going to embrace the centrist strategy and suck at the MBNA teat (for starters).

    Reform Dems need to ratchet down their expectations of this man, and quick.  I predict that before this Congress is through, Biden will triangulate rightward of Lieberman, and position himself as a Republican friendly alternative to Hillary (who herself is a huge consideration in Biden's strategy).

    Biden is dead to me.  I wash my hands of him and I suggest you do the same.

    "A person is as free as they believe themselves to be off." - Fortune cookie

    by The Termite on Sun Mar 13, 2005 at 04:43:10 PM PDT

  •  Been done with Joe for awhile now (none / 1)

    So this vote by him was really no surprise, unfortunately.  And I really wish he'd surprise me.

    O 4 O: Oregon for Obama!

    by smugbug on Sun Mar 13, 2005 at 04:43:37 PM PDT

  •  Buh bye, Biden (4.00 / 2)

    Wonder if legislators like Biden see the irony in punishing consumers facing financial hardships while granting a pass to entities like Halliburton which (1) operate in Iran, in clear contravention of the spirit of US law and(2) "lose" $8 billion in Iraqi contracting money.  But who cares, right?  There's a consumer deadbeat who can't pay hospital bills accrued because mainly due to the medical insurance crisis in this country.

    Biden has failed to join the progressive resistance to the GOP's assault on the middle, working, and poor classes.  This will be remembered.

  •  A for just for this part (none / 1)

    "Joe Biden (D-MBNA)"

    Made me LOL.

  •  Goddamn shame... (4.00 / 2)

    that a rare Dem pol with "personality" has to be such a coward in so many ways.
  •  Credit Card Bills to Biden? (none / 1)

    I'm sort of thinking out loud on this one, but how about we pick a day to fax our credit card bills to Senator Biden's office (without further comment)? I think that would be a fitting protest.
  •  Between Biden's Corporate Whoring For MBNA (none / 1)

    and his cowardly move of tacking the RAVE ACT onto the Amber Alert Bill, this sonofabitch has made me into a good friend of anybody who wants to take him on in the primaries.  After he is trounced in 2008 -- because he won't win the Democratic presidentiaL primary -- he's a prime candidate for a good Liebermaning by running a progressive primary opponent against him.  

    Don't be so afraid of dying that you forget to live.

    by LionelEHutz on Sun Mar 13, 2005 at 05:07:49 PM PDT

  •  Fuck Biden (4.00 / 2)

    Plagiarizing credit-card company whore is the best we can do, then we might as well all pack it in right now.

    My God, even Libermen voted against this fucking thing!

    Any Senator who voted for this fucking bill should be barred even thinking about running for the Democratic presidential nomination. If Biden thinks he can screw over poor people, and then count on their votes, he needs a swift kick to the head. Actually, he could use one anyway.

  •  Hmmm.... (4.00 / 2)

    reverses bankruptcy protection

    As in the Bankruptcy Protection Bill?

    Shouldn't that be the Bankruptcy Profiteering Bill?

    I appreciate Biden giving an explanation.

    I find it distasteful and lacking in substance.

    When do the campaign contribution numbers come out?  I wonder how many pieces of silver he got for that vote?

    So, what exactly does Biden think he should be doing as a Democrat in the Senate?

    I really want to know -- what does he think the purpose of the party is?

    Right now his answer makes it sound like his job is the same as the newbie saleman at the car lot -- to get us free floormats on the overpriced clunker his boss wants him to sell.

    You can easily judge the character of a man by how he treats those who can do nothing for him. --James D. Miles

    by Yaright on Sun Mar 13, 2005 at 06:24:05 PM PDT

  •  I think he is not used to these bills being (none / 1)

    scrutinized so thoroughly. He has probably been able to support this kind of stuff for years without being confronted about it. I think he is probably aware of getting on the list of Democrats who will never be president. His inside-the-beltway bubble is bursting and it's mighty unpleasant.

    He has been very mealy-mouthed about the Iraq war. He has always maintained it was right to invade Iraq; mainly he has complained about the administration's incompetence and their rejection of help (which are huge issues) but he will not admit that the case for this war was completely phony. (Kerry wouldn't either and that drove me crazy.) Biden is willfully refusing to see what is before his eyes: They don't intend to let any other nation in on the pot of gold that is Iraq. and they couldn't care less if they do it competently.

    The one time I saw from him what I thought was an authentic emotion was when he was questioning Aschcroft? about the following of the Geneva Conventions and explaining how they protect our soldiers. He seemed to take the not folloiwng of the Conventions personally, probably because his son is in the military.

    The flattering obsequiousness toward Condoleezza and  Alberto Gonzales is unbearable. He is just managing his image too much for me.

    •  I agree (none / 1)

      We've obviously touched a nerve here.  Biden clearly doesn't want the CW among the grassroots to be that his '08 campaign is DOA.  

      Which means that we can't let the meme (God help me for using the word, but it's appropriate) die.

  •  Let's clear house! (none / 1)

    Shove this Joe and the other Joe out the door.  And any other Repug Lite member of the Democratic party.  

    I'd rather take the time to get the message out that this shit won't play anymore, and that it will cost you your cushy li'l government job.  Better the Dems should lose again in 2006 and shake off the GOP wannabes, then come back with some real integrity to fight another day.

     

    JOHN McCAIN = George W. Bush's 3rd term.

    by chumley on Sun Mar 13, 2005 at 07:19:36 PM PDT

  •  Bankruptcy Question (none / 0)

    Can someone explain how this median-income exemptions works?  If my bankruptcy is caused by a bad-health event, I might have been above median income in the past but with little prospect of much income at all in the future.  As I don't expect the banruptcy courts to forecast the future, do they wait to see what your income is before making you pay back post bankruptcy, or do they put you in the non-exempt group based on past income, even though you currently are under water with medical bills and little psospect of future work?
  •  You guys don't understand Delaware (none / 0)

    To understand Delaware I recommend to you this article written by none other than the above mentioned Jonathan Chait, "The Case Against Delaware" (http://www.highbeam.com/library/doc0.asp?DOCID=1P1:55396673&refid=ip_almanac_hf unfortunately the entire article is not available for free) in which Mr. Chait outs all of our secret and not so secret ways of sucking money from the rest of the country so that our own taxes will be lower.  Note also that DE is one of the five states that allows "asset protection trusts".  Could any Delaware politician have voted against this legislation?  Well, that's something to ponder the next time you are driving through on I-95 and paying the highest per mile toll charges in the universe.

    "Men...think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one." - Charles MacKay

    by mstein on Mon Mar 14, 2005 at 04:06:04 AM PDT

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