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Congressman Schiff, How will it  Feel to be Occupied?

Grassroots Democrats to Occupy Schiff's Office
Monday, Tuesday, and  Wednesday of Broken Hearts Week

You can hear the grumbling  in our chat groups.  Eating their  own.
Not fair.  Renegades.  Winograd, there she goes again.  First  Harman, now Schiff?

Yes, next Monday, Tuesday,  and Wednesday, from 11 - 6 PM, I will join other anti-war  activists, some of them leaders of local LA Democratic Clubs,   to conduct non-violent  civil disobedience.  As part of a  nationwide Occupation Project, we will  occupy Congressman Adam Schiff's office at 87 North Raymond  in Old Town, Pasadena (Los Angeles  area).  

The demand?  Schiff, who voted for the war again and again, must stop funding the US occupation of Iraq.

Risking arrest, we will  sit-in, block the entrance, leaflet cars, and demonstrate outside  Schiff's office, just as Voices for Creative  Non-Violence and Code Pink occupied the  offices of Senators McCain and Clinton recently.

Why are we, some of us  grassroots Democrats, occupying the office of a fellow  Democrat, Congressman Adam Schiff, when 10 miles down the road  we could storm the GOP palace of sleazy deal-maker David  Dreier?  

The answer is simple.  The Democrats, not the  Republicans, now control the House.  And the House controls the purse or war  budget.  Any day now the House  Appropriations Committee, on which Schiff sits, will be the first to  examine Bush's 150-billion dollar Iraq War Supplemental.

Unlike a bill, a  supplemental cannot be vetoed by Bush.

And let's not forget it was  the Democrats, not the Republicans, who voters  swept into office in an Iraq War Referendum last November.
 
Elected Democrats have a  duty, an obligation to respect the will of the voters.

Enough of this face  time; we've talked to 'em and they continue to equivocate.
 
Enough groveling with  entrenched incumbent Democrats who, despite an onslaught of global and local anti-war  sentiment, voted to give  Bush a blank check to bomb Baghdad.   Never mind the fictitious WMD's.  Oil.  Was it really worth  it, Congress Members?

We begged.  We pleaded.  
They rained  destruction.

We smiled at them.  We sent respectful  emails.
They cut another war  check.  

We orderly marched in the  street.  We went back to their  offices.
Pelosi announced cutting  the funding was off the table.

Polite?  We should be polite?  We should ask for another meeting  with the same District Director we lobbied a month ago when we kindly requested Congressman  Schiff and the rest of the Democratic Party leadership act like real  leaders and vote to end the trillion-dollar occupation of a once-sovereign nation now buds with Iran.  

It's not okay to say you  oppose the war and then vote to fund it.

It's not okay to ignore the  voter mandate.

Enough of this face  time.  We need in your face  time.

Stay tuned Monday and Tuesday as peace voter blogs live from the Schiff occupation.

Want to join us?   I'll see you in the  street.  

Marcy Winograd


PS: Visit Progressive Democrats of Los Angeles for more info.

Originally posted to marcy winograd on Sun Feb 11, 2007 at 09:26 AM PST.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Mojo for Peace (40+ / 0-)

    After challenging Jane Harman in the Democratic Primary and garnering 38 percent of the vote in the 36th District, it's my obligation to wage peace at every turn.  With the Democrats in control of the war budget, don't you think it's time we amped up
    the pressure?

    Marcy

    •  Thank you Marcy. (9+ / 0-)

      Thank you for your boundless energy for peace.

      And thank you peace voter for the live blogging this Monday and Tuesday.  For those of us in cubicle land, the information in invaluable.

      •  You're Welcome! (5+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        peace voter, Ozzie, atdnext, TomP, CanadianBill

        In cubicle land? Only a heartbeat away or rather a telephone away from the action. On your break, perhaps you can dial in to Schiff's office (626-304-2727 or 202-225-4176) or send a fax (626-304-0572  202-225-5828)and say, "Enough is Enough. Cut the funding now and bring our troops home.

        Peace,

        Marcy

        •  Sadly... (3+ / 0-)

          Why are we, some of us  grassroots Democrats, occupying the office of a fellow  Democrat, Congressman Adam Schiff, when 10 miles down the road  we could storm the GOP palace of sleazy deal-maker David  Dreier?  

          The answer is simple.  The Democrats, not the  Republicans, now control the House.  And the House controls the purse or war  budget.  Any day now the House  Appropriations Committee, on which Schiff sits, will be the first to  examine Bush's 150-billion dollar Iraq War Supplemental.

          This isn't what you've done in the past:  When the GOP controlled the House, you targeted Dems.  Now that Dems control the House, you're still targeting Dems.

          At least tell the truth:  You have no interest in attacking the GOP.

          •  She is doing the right thing. (6+ / 0-)

            If you put political victory of any Party over the lives of Americans, you are making a poor choice.

            Peace Now -- Defund the War

            by TomP on Sun Feb 11, 2007 at 03:19:03 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  Why Would She Squander Valuable Time (5+ / 0-)

            and resources targeting the Republicans?  You figure they're going to listen to her?

            Go Marcy!

          •  that's nuts .. (7+ / 0-)

            it really is, and it's insulting.

            Convincing Democrats to change course is going to be a lot easier than doing so to Republicans, and you know it.

            And if this sets up for challengers in the primaries for those House seats in 2008, so much the better. It's time to sweep out some of the right Reagan Democrats in the primaries, where we can.

            Can we survive furious George's 'Quest For Stupidity'TM?

            by shpilk on Sun Feb 11, 2007 at 03:57:52 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  When the GOP Controlled Congress (4+ / 0-)

            When the GOP controlled Congress, I ran a Democratic Club headquarters in Santa Monica to elect John Kerry President.  When the GOP controlled Congress, I organized Swing State Sisters and went to Florida to register Democrats and talk up voter fraud so that Bush and his cronies might never again steal an election.  We know the Republicans are, for the most part (give it or take one or two), mad bombers who just as soon throw billions at Halliburton than get down to the business of diplomacy.  What we need is an opposition party that will refuse to collaborate with these criminals.  When Democrats fail to represent us, they leave us with no option but to demand responsible governance.  Institutionalist, I am not.  Machines are called machines because they have no integrity, no principles, just cogs.  Would thou choose to be a cog?  

            •  Conveniently... (0+ / 0-)

              You don't mention your activities since 2004.

              Before Adam Schiff represented that district, it was held by Jim Rogan -- who famously bedeviled Bill Clinton during the impeachment.

              Schiff turned a solid red district blue.  His district isn't at all like the one you temporarily moved into so that you could challenge Jane Harman.  Didn't you claim that a rented apartment was your "primary residence"?  You didn't bother to sell your home... you just claimed to represent the people of the district.  And dropped the apartment soon after the election:  So much for your "primary residence" within the district.

              Here you go again.  Dropping yourself in another district and aiming to make trouble for another Democrat.

              Just a couple of weeks ago, you buttonholed Henry Waxman (!), the closest thing we have to a saint in the House -- who's vested with an awesome oversight responsibility -- just to harangue him about this same issue.  Wasting his time and energy is just sad.

              These efforts are ineffectual.  Worse, they're distractions.

              •  What would you suggest as an alternative? (0+ / 0-)

                In detail, please.

              •  Never ceases to amaze me (0+ / 0-)

                after opposing repub efforts to disenfranchise Americans, that members of our own party would object  to someone practicing real democracy.

                This is what it looks like.

                The past twelve years has been an aberration.

                If Mr. Waxman calls, btw, I will come, in a heartbeat-but he's a civil servant, an honest American, and a true leader-not a saint. He, probably more than most, understands his job description.

                Oh, and as a 10 year CA-36er, I was thrilled when Marcy moved into my district.

              •  Just sayin', folks... (0+ / 0-)

                The district is not, was not, and has never been the location of her "primary residence," as defined by statute.

                Winograd is at risk until the statute of limitations expires:  There is not residency requirement to run for the House, but misrepresenting one's "primary residence" is a felony.

                Just ask Ann Coulter.  ;)

                •  Believe what you want to believe (0+ / 0-)

                  since it provides you with the "ammunition" -- bogus though it is -- that helps you condemn someone you evidently don't like or agree with.  But her apartment in Marina Del Rey was indeed her primary residence for the relevant time, and the fact that we didn't sell the house is totally irrelevant.  For what it's worth, Harman (who herself was a carpetbagger earlier in her political career) did label Winograd a "carpetbagger", but I don't think people much cared, and of course, as you acknowledge, one need not live in the district in which one runs for the House.  

                  I'm not going to sit here and parse the law with you, and I regret you felt the need to lodge or invite such a threat, but fortunately, we have nothing to worry about and you can continue to ponder your own ethical deficiencies.

                  "The true revolutionary is guided by a great feeling of love."

                  by Budlawman on Mon Feb 12, 2007 at 09:17:16 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

              •  Sorry you've got a burr in your saddle (0+ / 0-)

                But Ms. Winograd, my spouse, did mention her highly successful if not triumphant battle against Harman in the June primary (first "comment": "mojo for peace").  We are quite proud of the achievement, and don't know why it's a problem for you that Harman had to start representing and paying attention to her constituents, who were (and probably still are) to Harman's left as a whole. Even people who opposed Winograd's candidacy have expressed appreciation for her sincere, lawful, legitimate effort, which is a lot more than some armchair bloggers have done.  

                Is it your view that Dems should stay home in their districts and never venture outside of them, unless it's to praise another Dem in that "foreign" district? That's not democracy, it's not efficacy, and it's just plain silly.  Waxman has been somewhat equivocal even to this day about Iraq war funding, though he is not a lost cause, and of course Winograd's "harangue" of Henry is consistent with your "keep your criticism within your district" edict.  Or, should we not criticize Dems at all?

                "The true revolutionary is guided by a great feeling of love."

                by Budlawman on Mon Feb 12, 2007 at 09:01:17 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

              •  I live in CA-36... (0+ / 0-)

                ...and I was thrilled beyond measure that Marcy moved into my district to challenge Jane Harman (the self-described "Best Republican in the Democratic Party.").

                If (IF!), indeed, Jane Harman has changed her ideological stripes in the last year, that's due only to Marcy's courageous decision to challenge Harman's pro-war, pro-NSA-spying agenda.

                Thank you, Marcy, for coming to CA-36 and giving us voters a real choice for a change.

                Patrick Meighan
                Venice, CA

          •  Marcy has done plenty of Rethug-thumping (0+ / 0-)

            She ran a Dem HQ out of Santa Monica in '04, registered thousands of voters in that 'hood and in other "swing" states (e.g., NV, FL, AZ), and fought like hell for Kerry and the Dem candidates in '04, for which she was named "Democrat of the Year" in our AD.  She has also demonstrated against this heinous war and supported local candidates against Rethug incumbents.

            "The true revolutionary is guided by a great feeling of love."

            by Budlawman on Mon Feb 12, 2007 at 09:27:46 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

        •  Monday's NG for me. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          peace voter

          But I hope to see you in Pasadena on Tuesday.

          What did the President know and when did he stop knowing it?

          by Pyewacket on Sun Feb 11, 2007 at 08:35:33 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  Thank you, Marcy! (14+ / 0-)

    I'll be there reporting from the protest this Monday & Tuesday when concerned citizens show Congressman Schiff what it feels like to be occupied.

    ````
    peace

  •  Thanks for what you do, Marcy. n/t (8+ / 0-)

    Peace Now -- Defund the War

    by TomP on Sun Feb 11, 2007 at 09:29:39 AM PST

  •  He has co-sponsored Barbara Lee's resolution (6+ / 0-)

    to state that we won't build any permanent bases in Iraq, but he has not yet co-sponsored any bill to get us out of Iraq. Hope you can convince him to do so.

    Join the College Kossacks on Facebook, or the Republicans win.

    by DemocraticLuntz on Sun Feb 11, 2007 at 09:30:59 AM PST

  •  No more tolerance for MOR Dems on Iraq! (7+ / 0-)

    Of all the "mandates" one can argue about after November, none are more clear than we should be getting the hell out of Iraq, safely, sanely and quickly (and no friggin' "detours" into Iran!).  So, Dem electeds should be leading the charge, not playing footsie with Rethugs who, after all, didn't give them the time of day on this issue (or very many others)in six years.

    Dems also should not be overly concerned about dealing with the question of "supporting the troops", because intelligent people know that no one (other than the Rethugs who lied us into war in the first place) want to place them in harm's way, or deprive them of necessary protective gear.  

    And, while we're at it, Rethugs, don't cheat the vets out of necessary care when they get home!

    "The true revolutionary is guided by a great feeling of love."

    by Budlawman on Sun Feb 11, 2007 at 09:34:41 AM PST

  •  This is another wake-up call (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    peace voter, Ozzie, marcy winograd, TomP

    I guess some pols don't wake up after getting the first call from the "front desk" of the electorate, so someone needs to bang on the door and roust 'em.  

    Way to go, Winograd!   Put the democratic process at Schiff's doorstep!

  •  House Appropriations Committee (6+ / 0-)

    Any day now the House  Appropriations Committee, on which Schiff sits, will be the first to  examine Bush's 150-billion dollar Iraq War Supplemental.
    Unlike a bill, a  supplemental cannot be vetoed by Bush.

    I added House  Appropriations Committee to your tags.

    How do we find out when they meet? Will C-Span cover it? Can we increasse the chances of coverage? Ok, so I'm mostly questions. Anyone got answers?

  •  Marcy Winograd continues to show the way (6+ / 0-)

    You want to get your spineless (but oh so nice and lovely) ostensibly progressive Democratic Representative to pay attention to you?

    What to do when all the polite methods have been exhausted and greeted with partronizing bullshit?

    Precisely what Winograd prescribes here.

    1. Oppose them openly.  
    1. Raise money for serious primary challenges
    1. Run like hell against them, even if you lose

    Remember, THEY MADE US DO THIS! THEY MADE US!

    Amen Marcy!
    Tell me where to send the donation for the southern california democratic congressional primary challengers fund for 2008....

    •  Stay Tuned for 2008 (8+ / 0-)

      Thanks for your cheers and support.  Yes, we need to provide the leadership because it is so sorely lacking, with the exception of Waters and Lee and Woolsey and Feingold and Conyers and Kennedy.  For now, let's beat the peace drum at the doorsteps of the comatose.

    •  What about actual Republicans (0+ / 0-)

      Why not focus on Republicans who actually are much, much worse on these issues. Nope, the far left has to attack Democrats, just like they always do. The far right doesn't spend a lot of their attacking their own in the Republican party. They actually go after Democrats, who are the opposition.

      Does the far left think like that? No, of course not. Instead they attack Democrats, while ignoring their real opponents: the Republicans.

      http://www.keen.com/jiacinto For DC related travel advice, please visit that link.

      by jiacinto on Sun Feb 11, 2007 at 11:27:59 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Tell You What, jiacinto... (5+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        shpilk, peace voter, Ozzie, raincrow, Predictor

        You focus on Republicans.  Get back to us when you can report that you've found one who's willing to change their mind.

        In the meantime, I'll keep ragging on the Dems I worked to put in office.  They owe me, by god, and I intend to collect.

        •  creeper... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          raincrow

          ummm - would you please recommend this diary?

          thanks

          ```
          peace

        •  No (0+ / 0-)

          The point is that your energies are better spent trying to defeat Republicans who support the war 100% than attacking Democrats. But what do I know? I guess that I must be an idiot because I think defeating Republicans is more important.

          http://www.keen.com/jiacinto For DC related travel advice, please visit that link.

          by jiacinto on Sun Feb 11, 2007 at 04:32:47 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  There are no Rethugs to defeat at the moment (5+ / 0-)

            We have a war to stop, and we elected the Dems to do just that.  If the elephants want to dodder along -- as Jim Webb eloquently said -- we'll be with them, too.  But he also said, if they (the POTUS in particular) don't follow, we will be showing them the way.  So, unfortunately, we have to show Schiff the way to show the Rethugs the way.  

            This "resource allocation" argument was pretty pathetic even during the CA Dem primary in June; now, it's just totally fictional.

            "The true revolutionary is guided by a great feeling of love."

            by Budlawman on Sun Feb 11, 2007 at 04:54:41 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Let me ask you this (0+ / 0-)

              What about David Drier, Elton Gallegy, Jerry Lewis, Gary Miller, Ken Calvert, Mary Bono, Buck McKeon, Dana Rohrabacher, Ed Royce, John Campbell (the guy who has CA-48), Darrel Issa, Brian Bilbray, and Duncan Hunter? What about the rest of the southern California Republicans? What about trying to replace them with Democrats?

              http://www.keen.com/jiacinto For DC related travel advice, please visit that link.

              by jiacinto on Sun Feb 11, 2007 at 06:12:42 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  They've all got to go (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                peace voter, creeper

                But we can't get rid of them right now, much as we'd like to, and the killing continues.  Your non-solution seems to be to let it continue while you engage in happy talk about 2008.

                "The true revolutionary is guided by a great feeling of love."

                by Budlawman on Sun Feb 11, 2007 at 07:56:55 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

              •  The Election Is Almost Two Years Away (0+ / 0-)

                People are dying in Iraq NOW!  

                We need to change as many minds as we can, as quickly as we can.  Chances of getting Dems to change there minds semm, to me, vastly better than getting Reps to do the same.

                Let's get our troops out of Iraq alive before we do anything else.

          •  How Did You Feel ... (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            peace voter

            ... when House Speaker Nancy Pelosi announced, almost immediately after the election, that the Democrats would take cutting funding for the war off the table?  Did that make you feel confident that your party leadership respected the will of the voters?  Did that make the Democratic Party look good?  Did that give Independents a reason to switch and become Democrats?

            •  Ms. Wingograd, in all honesty, (0+ / 0-)

              I agree with Pelosi. Defunding the war hurts the troops and frankly I don't want our warfighters to go without the necessary equipment and support that they need. Cutting off funding basically gives the Republicans the opening to blame the Democrats for "not supporing the troops". It will only further solidify the impression among many voters that the Democrats "hate the military" and so forth.

              I want this war to be resolved as soon as possible. I'm also realistic enough to understand that, unfortunately, significant change won't happen until the next adminstration takes over.

              Defunding the war basically lets the Republicans take control and will hurt the Democrats. The far left never ceases to amaze me. Instead of focusing on the Republicans, which is the opposition, they attack Democrats for failing their impossible and unrealistic litmus tess.

              http://www.keen.com/jiacinto For DC related travel advice, please visit that link.

              by jiacinto on Sun Feb 11, 2007 at 06:19:12 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  I think it's more than legitimate (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                peace voter

                to ask what happens between now and when a 'new administration takes over'.

                Do you actually expect any change in admin/repub intransigence w/o defunding as an option on the table?

                Even with it?

                Do you think the political resolve presently exists to actively dissuade an Iranian strike?

                'Not supporting our troops','hate the military', and, IMO, 'far left' are repub memes-Nov. victories would not have occurred if they were anything else.

                And I don't believe direct action is an attack.
                I believe it's democracy.

              •  As I say below, don't buy into that Rethug b.s. (0+ / 0-)

                The war can be carefully defunded to avoid the actual reality of not "supporting the troops", and the Rethugs know it.  They have been the ones responsible for supply shortages (and contractor corruption), and Bush can spend the withdrawal money in such a way, or Congress can direct him to do so, to avoid that claim and reality.  In fact, if that argument was bought by enough people, we could never withdraw because we could never avoid that argument, and thus never direct moneys to be used to get out.

                (And BTW, nice misspell jobs on Ms. Winograd's name)

                "The true revolutionary is guided by a great feeling of love."

                by Budlawman on Sun Feb 11, 2007 at 08:02:45 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

              •  Hostages to Bush policy (3+ / 0-)

                If you say defunding if off the table because of supporting the troops, you're essentially allowing Bush to hold our troops hostage to his policy and indefinitely extend the occupation. When every last excuse for staying in Iraq is gone, will we still stay because Bush is dangling the troops as hostages?

      •  after the primaries, feel free to goright ahead (5+ / 0-)

        in the meantime, Democrats who refuse to listen to their own constituents need to be held to account.

        Can we survive furious George's 'Quest For Stupidity'TM?

        by shpilk on Sun Feb 11, 2007 at 03:58:52 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Why Focus on Democrats (5+ / 0-)

        Do the Republicans control the House?  Was it the Republicans who were swept into office because Americans want an end to this illegal war?  No, it was the Democrats we elected because we thought they would end the war.

        We know the Republican leaders are thugs; it's because we still hold out hope for our leaders in the Democratic Party, because we think they might still respect a voter mandate, that we bring our campaign to their offices.  

        Why would any of us believe that we will empower the Democrats, strengthen the party, appeal to more Independents, by rubber stamping yet another of Bush's bloody war budgets?  There are times when you need to be counter-intuitive, when to demand accountability of your own party is, in fact, to give people a reason to vote Democratic.

        •  Again, Ms. Winogrand, what about (0+ / 0-)

          the other Southern California Republicans who bear much more responsiblity for the war than any and all Democrats? Why are you not launching protests and trying to recruit candidates to run against them? After all they are the ones who are the greatest obstalces to changing policies that everyone here opposes?

          http://www.keen.com/jiacinto For DC related travel advice, please visit that link.

          by jiacinto on Sun Feb 11, 2007 at 06:43:10 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  We have opponents in BOTH parties (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        peace voter

        Think of this not as an attack but as very emphatic political speech. Let us see how much momentum actions such as this gain. We achieve absolutely nothing if we stand by, mute and tame.

      •  In Illinois, focus in on 2 Republicans & 3 Dems (0+ / 0-)

        Occupation project is focussing on LaHood, Kirk, Jackson, Obama and Durbin. The 3 reps are on the Appropriations Committee.

        that sounds about right.  whoever votes for appropriations (in Committee or on the floor)is responsible for the War.

        I am a Dem activist; I worked for Bean.  Now I am working with a military Mom (MFSO) who worked for the 3rd party anti-war candidate against Bean.  Between us (and dozens of others), her staff is at least listening.

  •  STOP Funding the WAR (9+ / 0-)


    1.27.2007
    Downtown Los Angeles

    On January 27th citizens around the nation took to the streets to demand an end to the illegal war and occupation of Iraq.

    The funding must end.

    Bring our Troops Home NOW!

    ````
    peace

  •  On January 27 500,000 (12+ / 0-)

    people gathered in DC and NO ONE KNEW!  Why?  Because it was too civil.  No one was late for work.  No freeways were jammed.  It was the weekend and the congressmembers were smuggly at home.  If there is a demonstration and the media ignores it was there a demonstration?  It is like the tree falling in the forest.  Or the sound of one hand clapping.  No one feels the street heat if they can't hear it coming.  We have four congressmen here in LA who say they are against the war - Waxman, Berman, Sherman and Schiff.  And still they vote to fund it.  Even Justice Roberts knows that the only was to stop the war is to cut the funding.  WE DEMAND THAT OUR CONGRESSMAN DO WHAT WE ELECTED THEM TO DO.   Stop supporting this imperial madness.  Impeach King George.  Stop investigating Blackwater and start investigatin Bush!  And do it now!

    •  Feeling the Heat (6+ / 0-)

      We will be out in force, distributing leaflets to drivers and passersby, and the leaflets will read,
      "Schiff's Bloody War Record."  The heat is on.  

    •  Typical far left mentality (0+ / 0-)

      Of course you do know that the vast majority of southern California Republicans probably are much more stronger supporters of the war than Schiff, Berman, Waxman, and Sherman are--or ever have been. And I thought that Waxman had already begun using his chairmanship to begin investigations.

      Maybe I am a dumb idiot here, but it was the Republicans and the President who pushed the nation into war with Iraq. Frankly, if I wanted to protest, I would exert my energies on southern California Republicans who support the war.

      The far left never gets it. The far right doesn't protest against their own like this (with the exception of Lincoln Chaffee and Arlen Specter). They actually protest against Democrats and liberals/progrsesives. They don't protest against moderate members of their own party.

      http://www.keen.com/jiacinto For DC related travel advice, please visit that link.

      by jiacinto on Sun Feb 11, 2007 at 11:32:50 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Who gives a crap what the Rethugs protest? (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        peace voter, Ozzie, creeper, Predictor

        They can come out and bash gays, promote machine gun ownership, restrict the rights of single moms, and screw unions all they want. We aren't going to listen to them, and we will fight them.  They do have some discipline, though it's fracturing as we speak.  In fact, some of the "movement" conservatives are bummed that Bush hasn't thrown them more bones, and they're unhappy with Giuliani, McCain and even Mitt.  

        In my view, Berman and Harman are the worst of the SoCal Dem lot, but the Rethugs are getting ousted for taking the wrong stance; now we have to hold the Dems' feet to the fire.  Berman has been told and told and told that he needs to shift his position, and he's promised to change his stance if things didn't improve in Iraq, but he hasn't kept that promise as things have deteriorated.  

        Of course if we could get Bush and Cheney out of office immediately, we would (I have a feeling, jiacinto, that you don't favor that either, unless it happens by waving a magic wand). But the Dems who were elected and reelected on a platform of anti-Iraq war have to come through.  Just as any voters' group doesn't like it when they receive promises that aren't kept, we expect the pols we elect to come through.  That's the message.  

        We didn't elect Dems just because they have a "D" next to their names; they should stand for something.  If they don't come through, they should go out on their ears and be replaced by someone who will do what they say they'll do.

        "The true revolutionary is guided by a great feeling of love."

        by Budlawman on Sun Feb 11, 2007 at 05:06:15 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  The reality (0+ / 0-)

          is that policy in Iraq will not change significantly until a new administration takes over. Secondly, even if the House and Senate tried to remove Bush and Cheney from office, the votes aren't there. Unless you can magically find 16-20 Republican Senators who will suddenly vote to remove Bush from office, I am of 99.999999% certainity that any attempts to impeach will fail miserably.

          I disgaree with defunding the war because I don't want our soldiets to go without the equipment and support that they need. Secondly, while I am for closure in the Iraq war, I don't support a massive withdrawl either. I support a withdrawal that will not leave Iraq in a complete vaccum and that is coordinated. Massively cutting off funding is a recipe for disorder.

          http://www.keen.com/jiacinto For DC related travel advice, please visit that link.

          by jiacinto on Sun Feb 11, 2007 at 06:24:17 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  Don't judge OUR civility or OUR performance if (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      shpilk, marcy winograd

      YOU weren't there!

      For those of us who WERE in the streets in DC ... and at the Capitol Building (and for all those at all the worthy demonstrations across the nation), making posters, carting displays, building apparatuses, planning actions, staying up all night to make certain things got done, I take issue with YOUR blanket statement that our action went unnoticed because IT WAS TOO CIVIL, which by insinuation, presumes WE WERE TOO CIVIL!!

      WE WERE THERE... for three days and some people for even longer.  We left our homes, our jobs, spent our money, got on planes and busted our asses.  Until such time that YOU take to the streets, take the flights, get arrested, and be "UN-CIVIL," be careful to parse your statements regarding the methods used by those who DO TAKE ACTION!!

      WE marched, we worked our asses off.  Some of us occupied offices.  Some got arrested.  We took to the streets when millions of OTHERS did not.  Had YOU been there you would have seen the level of involvement of the INVOLVED!!!  Had YOU and all the others who stayed home actually been there, the numbers may possibly have been TOO LARGE and TOO CONSEQUENTIAL to be ignored.  However, I do pay unequivocal, unwavering homage to ALL who participated in EVERY demonstration EVERYWHERE the weekend of January 27th... or at any time before or since in the cause of peace and social justice.

      Before you make blanket statements about the way WE performed in DC, make certain YOU have first hand experience upon which to base your PRESUMPTIONS.  

      Why wasn't it covered by the Press?  Not because of OUR civility.  Perhaps more because of YOUR absence, or YOU and millions of others who haven't held media accountable for not covering it.  

      Where were the phone calls to media while we were on the streets demanding our presence be covered?  If they were made, I'm grateful.  If they weren't, they should have been.  Where were the follow-up calls to media afterward demanding to know why it HADN'T BEEN COVERED??  

      I can only hope that those who call for others' heads on the blocks, for others' butts in jail, for others to be LESS civil, put their OWN ASSES on the line.  Claims of infirmity work sometime... yet I witnessed women and men in their 80s marching with those in their teens. I witnessed people missing limbs marching.  People in wheelchairs.  They made no claims to be infirm.  They were upright or on wheels.  True there are those incapable of so arduous a task.  And to those I'm sympathetic.  Yet I still wouldn't expect them to make claim that those who showed up were ineffectual because of their civility.  And for your edification since YOU weren't there to know, the marchers altered the pre-approved route during the course of the march, pushing forward in the direction more suitable to the demonstration, disregarding manipulations by the police.

      Those who showed up put aside claims of needing to be home to tend to personal responsibilities.  Instead they prioritized public responsibility above their personal needs.  Claims of lack of funds were overridden by a commitment to get there by any means because being there was SO DAMN NECESSARY!!  And I can assure YOU, many who stayed home had much greater means than many who went.

      Some of us boarded planes and flew all night directly after teaching long classes, then went directly to action with no sleep... then flew back, again all night, to walk into teach an 8am class, again with no sleep.  Perhaps that's too CIVIL for some... but it's more honorable than sitting on one's ass protesting the War by clicking a remote control, cursing about coverage.

      To those who preach ACTION, FANTASTIC!!  I plan to be at Adam Schiff's office in between my teaching jobs.  Let's see how many who judge and quantify the civility of others are there.  This is a call to action to those who preach to SHOW UP!  A call to action... an actual DARE that's so personal, I believe it may work!

      •  Way Too Harsh, Linda Milazzo (0+ / 0-)

        Nothing Dorothy Reik said calls for this kind of attack.  You're flirting with a troll rating for taking off on her (and by extension anyone else who didn't make the trip to DC) like this.

        I WAS there.  I drove a thousand miles to be there.  Dorothy Reik wasn't entirely wrong.  Compared to film I've seen of demonstrations in the '60's and '70's this one was positively subdued.

        I left thinking we're going to have to exhibit a lot more outrage than I saw that day before they pay attention to us.

        Just because we were there doesn't give us one ounce more credibility than the people who weren't.  It certainly doesn't grant us license to abuse them as you did.

        An apology is in order.

        •  creeper (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Linda Milazzo, TomP

          I've seen far too much troll rating around here lately - let's not start that - not here - not now.

          I understand your point - but I don't think troll rating is the answer.

          Linda is being sincere here - she does a lot & I look forward to seeing her at the protest.

          ```
          peace

          •  Well, I Didn't (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            peace voter

            But if I hadn't made the drive to DC (and that's a thousand miles one way, mind you) what she wrote would've felt like an attack on me, too.  Dorothy didn't deserve that, any more than the rest of our posters do.

            Your respect for Linda comes through.  And mine for you makes that good enough.

            •  Those who demand much of others (0+ / 0-)

              should demand the same of themselves.  What is civility?  Or "uncivility" if that's what's being requested here?  It needs to be clarified.

              If we're talking about putting oneself on the line to get arrested... civil disobedience... if that's what defines uncivility in this case, than those who ask it of others should be willing to do it themselves.

              I'm principally a writer.  I use my name publicly and stand by my statements.  I hold myself open to public scrutiny and take what comes my way.  If my writing is critiqued as flawed or uninspired, I accept that.  If my logic is critiqued as flawed or irrational, I can handle that criticism, too.  

              Those who "troll rate" or threaten action against others (which I personally don't worry about since I seek no POWER on kos), because they disagree with a premise, are misusing their own power.  Doing so by pseudonymn, which is obviously permitted... is in my opinion, cowardly.

              I appreciate the kind words of peace voter, whom I respect.  But I wonder, creeper, since I don't know who you are, how you overlooked the hard work and dedication of those 500,000 in DC.

              I'M NOT IN THE CATEGORY OF THE HEROES  I SPEAK OF.  I'M MUCH LESS PRODUCTIVE!  

              But my sisters in CODEPINK worked non-stop before and throughout that weekend.  How did you not notice the "shoe installation" in front of the stage?  Didn't you see the young activists (not CODEPINK) who made their way on to the Capitol steps after the march with the police chasing them down?

              I believe it's more appropriate to point out the hard work of the 500,000 who participated that weekend than it is to worry about protecting those who stayed home.  I can't give a troll rating to you, creeper.  Even if I could, I wouldn't.  But I can give you a heads up that it's not the work of the 500,000 that should be challenged.  It's the absence of the tens of millions who share their dislike of the war yet do nothing to bring it to an end!!   Don't take that personally, creeper.  Those I refer to are most likely not part of this page.

              I'll end our discourse by saying I'm complying with the request to be at Adam Schiff's office this week.  I can't go on Monday, but I can on Tuesday and/or Wednesday.  I believe in the action... I believe it is necessary.   And that's why I'll go!

              Happy driving, creeper!!

              •  500,000? (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Linda Milazzo

                But I wonder, creeper, since I don't know who you are, how you overlooked the hard work and dedication of those 500,000 in DC.

                You keep referring to that number.  There is no official or unbiased estimate of the number of people in Washington on January 27.  My own opinion is that if we got 200,000 we were lucky.

                As for who I am, I'm just a housewife.  I'm a little late to activism and my credentials don't begin to compare with yours.  But I don't sit on the sidelines whining and not doing anything.  I was a Dean supporter in the Iowa caucuses and poll monitor for MoveOn in Tallahassee in 2004.  Last year I worked for and contributed to another one of those winning Democrats who can't seem to figure out why we elected him.  Last month I thought it important enough that my body be counted that I drove to Washington to stand on the Mall with you and thousands of other caring Americans.  

                Linda, not all of us bring the unbridled passion to this endeavor that you do.  Our contributions are no less important for that.  Please try to remember that most of us are doing the best we can with what we've got.

                Randi

                •  I'm no hero... (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  creeper

                  and there's no such thing as "just" a housewife... as you and I both know.  There are no credentials amongst activists... other than dedication, compassion and honor (I hope).  Mine are no better or worse than anyone else's.  That's why I took offense to what I believe is a slight against the (shall we say "many thousands') of dedicated folks who did what you did... show up and take action.

                  I honor your work and thank you for it and believe sincerely that your trip to DC MADE A DIFFERENCE!!  

                  Thank you!!  

                  •  You're Welcome. (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Linda Milazzo

                    Good luck with Adam Schiff this week.  It doesn't sound like he's been too receptive so far.  

                    I don't think I have the guts to participate in something like this.  I'm glad there's someone who does.  I will watch and learn from you.

        •  No, way! I speak the truth,. (0+ / 0-)

          First of all, I didn't mention anyone by name.  You did.

          Secondly, there are all kinds of activism and all kinds of activists.  I don't call writing checks being too civil.  I call it important activism.  But the comment that the 500,000 in the street were too civil was written by someone who wasn't there.

          I've seen the level of activism by those who get arrested.  I didn't get arrested.  But I know those who did.  The press didn't cover them not because they were too civil.  They were incredibly brave.  The press didn't cover them because there are too many arm chair quarterbacks and too few who take direct action.  

          You may judge the lack of visibility of January 27th by many factors... but the level and dedication of the activists isn't one of them.

          Troll rate, away!!  I'm happy you made the trip.  I would hope you would be more supportive of those who marched beside you... and more capable of comprehending the depth of what I said!

      •  It May Work, Yes, It May ... (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        peace voter, Predictor

        Thank you, Linda, for joining us in between teaching jobs.  Your dedication to peace and your devotion to peace and independent media is much appreciated.  See you on the picket line.  

  •  Our Dems Need to Support the Troops... (6+ / 0-)

    By letting them come home ASAP. Thank you, Marcy and peace voter, for having the courage to ask Rep. Schiff to do what's best for our troops, and what's probably least bad for Iraq...

    And bring them home ASAP!

    : )

    Don't blame us... We're keeping California blue at Calitics!

    by atdnext on Sun Feb 11, 2007 at 10:25:26 AM PST

  •  House Appropriations Committee (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    peace voter, marcy winograd, TomP

    I just added this to your tags.

  •  Why this target? (5+ / 0-)

    When Willie Sutton was asked why he robbed banks, he replied, "That's where the money is."

    Why target the Dems.? Same asnwer (well, almost): That's where the power is. Our Dem. reps. well know the wishes of the vast majority of the voters who gave them that power, with the intent that they stop the madeness.

    As one who has also lobbied to no avail, I agree that we need to expand our outreach.

  •  Misplaced priorities (0+ / 0-)

    Why are you attacking Democrats? Why don't you go to the local offices of Congressional Republicans who hold marginal districts in Southern California? Wouldn't your enegies be more effective there? They are the ones who pushed for war with Iraq.

    http://www.keen.com/jiacinto For DC related travel advice, please visit that link.

    by jiacinto on Sun Feb 11, 2007 at 11:15:43 AM PST

    •  This is a wake up call (6+ / 0-)

      We want Democrats to STOP funding the WAR.

      congress has the power of the purse.

      Did you read the diary?

      If you reread it, I think you'll find the answer to your question.

      ```
      peace

      •  This is a problem that I have with the far left (0+ / 1-)
        Recommended by:
        Hidden by:
        creeper

        Your energies would be better spent protesting Republicans in other southern California districts, instead of attacking Democrats. But no, instead of focusing on the opposition, you focus on Democrats.

        Funding for the war isn't going to be cut. I hope that the Democratic leadership doesn't cave into the anti-military segments of the radical left. Doing so would be politically disastrous and put the troops at risk.

        http://www.keen.com/jiacinto For DC related travel advice, please visit that link.

        by jiacinto on Sun Feb 11, 2007 at 11:24:06 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Troll-Rated For Badgering. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          peace voter

          Five references to "far left" was one too many.

        •  Clueless (3+ / 0-)

          You're falling into the Rethug trap.  There is no reason why the Congress couldn't "earmark" the funds to both protect the troops and bring them home.  Yes, some Dems are acting as if their vote against funding would be misinterpreted as denying the troops armor, support logistics, etc., but that's only if they simply fall asleep at the wheel, and don't get their message out properly.  

          This needs to be put squarely in Bush's lap: we can fund protection and all the wherewithal needed to withdraw, not "surge", and let him continue to defy the peoples' will.

          Your argument leads only to a continued spineless Congressional immobility as our errant (at best) Commander in Chief continues down the bellicose path to destruction.  

          Should we just wait two more years, jiacinto, before we lift a finger to end this unjust useless war?

          "The true revolutionary is guided by a great feeling of love."

          by Budlawman on Sun Feb 11, 2007 at 05:12:00 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  The troops have everything they need (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          peace voter

          to get out of Iraq.  And if they run out of gas on the way out I'll bet the Iraqis will fetch more for them in Jerry cans or in milk cartons if that's what it takes.

          They don't need a dollar more if what they are going to use it for is to stay there for another minute.

    •  Why is she fighting Democrats? (0+ / 0-)

      You have got to be kidding asking that question - or you don't live in California.  She is trying to get herself elected in a safe blue district.  She moved to run against Harman - she could have moved to Simi Valley to run against a "Bush rubber stamp"  Republican - but she and her friend Mary Pillant didn't have the stomach for the fight.  

  •  Bush cannot veto an appropriation (5+ / 0-)

    This is a key point.  If he vetoes an appropriation, then HE is cutting off funding for the troops.  The goal ought to be to pass a small appropriation with time-based limits that he won't like, daring both GOP Republicans and the President to block it and risk getting no money at all.  Then of course you have to be ever vigilant that he doesn't start illegally funding the war, which I've no doubt he'd do.

    D-Day, the newest blog on the internet (at the moment of its launch)

    by dday on Sun Feb 11, 2007 at 11:19:21 AM PST

  •  Marcy (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    peace voter, marcy winograd

    I quoted you on another diary - about Bush, vetos, and supplemental appropriation and got this helpful response:

    Bush can veto, but veto entire appropriation (3+ / 0-)
    sorry to be technical, but as a legal matter, Bush can veto a Supplemental Appropriation.  As a plitical matter he won't because he would have to veto the entire remaining supplemental Appropriation.

    What he can't veto is the failure to pass a Supplemental Appropriation.

    By the way, he is asking for ~$100 billion for Iraq for 2007 and ~$140 billion for 2008.  Why would anyone vote for the 2008 money now?

    by lawyerDan on Sun Feb 11, 2007 at 11:41:57 AM PST

    That's Better (3+ / 0-)
    It's good to have those technical points.

    My feeling is that the President's budget is DOA, and that it's only a recommendation, anyhow. All spending bills must originate in the House, and that means he's dependent on either a minority rep to propose it or to get the Democrats to propose something resembling it. They should do no such thing.

    In fact, they should totally rewrite it. They should start by making the "supplemental" part of the original bill. That's important to accounting for it in terms of the deficit. Then, they should ignore all the cuts in domestic spending he's proposing. They should force Republicans to propose each cut individually, and have it debated. And the debate should always be on our terms, i.e., that this cut is only being proposed by the Republicans because they have enormously overspent on the war.

    And then, we should always propose a cut to the other part of the Defense budget to cover the same money. If the Republicans propose cutting $x million from Head Start, then we should say, "No, let's keep Head Start and cut that $x million from the major weapons systems that the Pentagon wants." Because there is no excuse for them to be spending money on, say, extending weapons into space, when we don't have enough pennies to put armor on the Humvees in Iraq. Let them put some of those big-ticket items on hold until the war is over, and spend the money in Iraq. There is simply no excuse for us to fund big toys for big boys if it means we don't have enough money to feed the elderly or educate the young.

    And finally, someone should do a calculation that shows how many years we'd have to shut down the government to pay off the national debt. It's in the trillions of dollars. In other words, if you could only fund the IRS, how many years would it take to pay off the debts that the Republicans have run up over this war? I think that figure would be a potent political weapon.

    Think, liberally.

    by Liberal Thinking on Sun Feb 11, 2007 at 12:00:08 PM PST

    Gotta love this site.

  •  Fabulous! (5+ / 0-)

    Yes. We need to get in their faces.
    KUDOS!

    MoveOn is also delivering petitions to Congressioal offices nationwide.
    Go to moveon.org and sign up so you can get action notices from them...

  •  Thank you Marcy .. (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    peace voter, Ozzie, atdnext, TomP

    don't let up!

    Can we survive furious George's 'Quest For Stupidity'TM?

    by shpilk on Sun Feb 11, 2007 at 03:54:02 PM PST

  •  My Best Marcy (5+ / 0-)

    Its a pity we have to keep Pressure on fellow Democrats to end this War, but we do, thanks for your action on this!
    Bring the Troops Home and End this horror.

    "If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." Dalai Lama

    by Predictor on Sun Feb 11, 2007 at 05:55:45 PM PST

  •  Will be watching breathlessly. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    peace voter, Budlawman

    Thank you!

  •  Shift Shiff out of office next time around (0+ / 0-)

      It is about time that Democrats who want to act like Republicans move over and let those who will stand up for the people over the corporations move into office.
      I recall in the last election, this same Congressman Shiff put significant roadblocks up when asked by a nearby Democratic primary winner to help. Is Shiff in league with his nearby buddy, David Dreier??? Sharing the same contributers???
      OCCUPY!!! But please, let's find a viable alternative to this appeaser so that in the next round of Congressional races, there can be a strong peace candidate challenging him. The DLC Democrats seem to believe that THEY ONLY should represent the party, and they work as hard against the progressives as they do against the Republicans.

  •  bush can veto (but politically can not) (0+ / 0-)

    sorry to be technical, but as a legal matter, Bush can veto a Supplemental Appropriation.  As a political matter he won't because he would have to veto the entire remaining Supplemental Appropriation.

    What he can't veto is the failure to pass a Supplemental Appropriation.

    By the way, he is asking for ~$100 billion for Iraq for 2007 and ~$140 billion for 2008.  Why would anyone vote for the 2008 money now?

  •  The more explosive the better? (0+ / 0-)

    Marcy, Marcy, Marcy, you are drinking your own kool aid.  Fess up honey - this is all about you and your minions.  And to the person on KOS who compared here to MLK - you must be 6 years old and haven't read your history books!

    People, get a spine and fight Republicans!

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