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Slowpoke cartoon

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Originally posted to Comics on Wed Jul 20, 2011 at 06:50 AM PDT.

Also republished by Pink Clubhouse, ClassWarfare Newsletter: WallStreet VS Working Class Global Occupy movement, Hydrant, DKOMA, and Daily Kos.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Incandescent TODAY! Incandescent TOMORROW! (6+ / 0-)

    Incandescent 4 Evah!

    Umm, that's PRESIDENT Obama and SENATOR Franken, mr. o'reilly.

    by filby on Wed Jul 20, 2011 at 07:03:35 AM PDT

  •  No congressman goes to a hardware store to buy. (15+ / 0-)

    Shake hands, maybe.

    If they did, they'd find CFLs that cast a nice soft light, come on right away, don't cost that much and .... wait for it.... help the country every time a smart consumer buys one.

    Avg. Medicaid cost to New Jersey: $1936 per child per year. Avg cost of helicopter commute for Governor: $2300 per hour. Guess which one Christie wants to cut back on?

    by Inland on Wed Jul 20, 2011 at 07:03:49 AM PDT

  •  Because light sources should emit (6+ / 0-)

    heat and heat sources should emit light instead... wait, whut?

    Iuris praecepta sunt haec: Honeste vivere, alterum non laedere, suum cuique tribuere. - Ulpian, Digestae 1, 3

    by Dauphin on Wed Jul 20, 2011 at 07:05:18 AM PDT

  •  LMAO - Bulbs don't waste electricity (6+ / 0-)

    people waste electricity

    and people waste other people too.

    "senilebiker's diary Is officially DO NOT RESPOND. They don't like being ignored." Courtesy of the MFDKGC

    by senilebiker on Wed Jul 20, 2011 at 07:07:36 AM PDT

  •  Sorry but I definitely want MY choice of bulb. (4+ / 0-)

    CF's give a horrible muddy light and cannot at all tolerate the dirty, fluctuating current in my historic house.  By all means develop and distribute more efficient lighting in all kinds of places -- but don't make ME quit buying incandescents.  I'll pay more.  I'll stockpile them from international sources if I have to.

    "The extinction of the human race will come from its inability to EMOTIONALLY comprehend the exponential function." -- Edward Teller

    by lgmcp on Wed Jul 20, 2011 at 07:09:13 AM PDT

    •  They're NOT eliminating incandescents (12+ / 0-)

      They're preventing the adoption of GE's new, more efficient incandescent. The ban on the old incandescents is needed to create a market for the new ones, because the new ones cost on-par with CFLs.

      In addition, there are some newer LED bulbs with a very "homey" soft-white color. No flicker, no waste, no headaches. You may want to look into them - they're expensive right now, but they still save a ton on energy costs, more than saving their own price, over time.

      You may be able to outrun your friend for the moment, but the grizzly named "Avarice" *always* has plenty of appetite for you both...

      by radical simplicity on Wed Jul 20, 2011 at 07:33:05 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I'm all for a newer better incandescent (3+ / 0-)

        and don't mind paying more for it.  I like LEDs for things like Xmas and porch lights but still don't want to read by their light.   It's really the CFs that just repulse me.  It's their ugly light.

        "The extinction of the human race will come from its inability to EMOTIONALLY comprehend the exponential function." -- Edward Teller

        by lgmcp on Wed Jul 20, 2011 at 07:35:10 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  It's definitely worth looking at the new LEDs (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Marcus Graly, lgmcp, splashy, gosoxataboy

          The quality of light is very different from what people are used to. We've recently switched all but two of our CFLs to newer "yellow" LEDs and could not be happier with their color rendition - even for reading.

          We've just decided to go DC for most of our interior lighting, so some lucky person will be getting a bunch of new LED bulbs via freecyle in September when the new solar system is installed. Or maybe I'll sneak them into my Dad's most-used lamps. He'll never notice....

          You may be able to outrun your friend for the moment, but the grizzly named "Avarice" *always* has plenty of appetite for you both...

          by radical simplicity on Wed Jul 20, 2011 at 07:41:03 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  No, lgmcp, it is your wiring (0+ / 0-)

          You've already established that is a problem with your wiring, not the CFL's.  

          If you ask "what color is the poster" when someone criticizes the President's policy or track record, you are probably a racist. If you assume white progressives don't like the President's policies because of his skin color, you are definitely a racist.

          by Celtic Pugilist on Wed Jul 20, 2011 at 09:30:32 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  It may well be my wiring but it's ALSO their light (0+ / 0-)

            because the light is not dim and ugly when incandescents are used in the SAME doubtful wiring.  

            It's pointless telling me that I'm not experiencing what I'm experiencing.   Why would you even do that?  

            "The extinction of the human race will come from its inability to EMOTIONALLY comprehend the exponential function." -- Edward Teller

            by lgmcp on Wed Jul 20, 2011 at 09:47:44 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  No, they don't work with your wiring (3+ / 0-)

              I read what you wrote and you described them not giving off light properly with your wiring.  It is specific to your system as you have stated.  You described problems specific to it and I take you at your word on that.  You keep stating as if it is generically true also, and that is just false.  

              What is pointless is for you to tell others what they will experience with normal wiring.  See the problem?  What you are doing is called spreading FUD (fear, uncertainty, doubt.)  I assume yours is unintentional, but for others it is often an intentional tactic employed against CFL's and any other green tech.  See the cartoon for examples.

              So while I can assume good faith on your part, it is important to point out that what you are stating is not representative of CFL's.  

              If you ask "what color is the poster" when someone criticizes the President's policy or track record, you are probably a racist. If you assume white progressives don't like the President's policies because of his skin color, you are definitely a racist.

              by Celtic Pugilist on Wed Jul 20, 2011 at 10:05:22 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  OK. They don't work with my wiring specifically. (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Celtic Pugilist

                I also don't like the quality of their light very much when I encounter it in other locations either, but outside my home I can usually tolerate it.  

                "The extinction of the human race will come from its inability to EMOTIONALLY comprehend the exponential function." -- Edward Teller

                by lgmcp on Wed Jul 20, 2011 at 10:11:59 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

      •  Thanks for the informative response. (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Marjmar, lgmcp, reality77, greengemini

        I'm generally fairly well informed, but I thouht that incandescents were being phased out completely.  I'm not one of those people who get awful headaches from CFLs, but I've been concerned about those who do, and annoyed because I don't like CFL light, though I can tolerate it.  

        And yes, I'm worried about the mercury.  That's one of many good reasons to want to phase out coal plants, as the cartoon implies.  But as far as I can see, it's also a real problem with ramping up the use of CFLs by millions of people.

        Anyway -- I'm glad to hear about more efficient incandescents.

      •  Never seen flicker in a modern CFL (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        TofG, copymark

        And I'm very sensitive to flicker.  I used to have awful trouble with headaches from low refresh rates on monitors.  I could detect flicker up to 85 hz.  

        If you ask "what color is the poster" when someone criticizes the President's policy or track record, you are probably a racist. If you assume white progressives don't like the President's policies because of his skin color, you are definitely a racist.

        by Celtic Pugilist on Wed Jul 20, 2011 at 09:33:01 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  uh? (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      lgmcp, Celtic Pugilist

      fluctuating current?  Is the grid you are on that bad?  Maybe time for the local government to mandate an improvement.

      "The only person sure of himself is the man who wishes to leave things as they are, and he dreams of an impossibility" -George M. Wrong.

      by statsone on Wed Jul 20, 2011 at 07:43:16 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  It's a rural area (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        northsylvania

        but the problem(s) could easily be across the last leg on my own couple of acres.  We've put more into plumbing and electric than I can even tell you, and barely reached parity (if that).

        "The extinction of the human race will come from its inability to EMOTIONALLY comprehend the exponential function." -- Edward Teller

        by lgmcp on Wed Jul 20, 2011 at 07:59:25 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Old houses and old lamps (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      lgmcp, northsylvania

      The new stuff not being backward-compatible is the problem. Let's save energy by all means - but don't make me look at new shit.

      into the blue again, after the money's gone

      by Prof Haley on Wed Jul 20, 2011 at 07:59:32 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  CFLs will blow generators. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      lgmcp

      I have no idea why. Maybe the new incandescents won't do that.

      •  disclaimer (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        lgmcp

        I got this information from these people who use bulbs 25-30K at a whack. They tried to use CFLS for some of their lighting and ended up buying their rented generator. They were not amused.
        Yes, you are looking at the carbon footprint from hell, but they only do it once a year.

      •  That's not representative (0+ / 0-)

        A pure lighting float is a ridiculous comparison.  Most likely the float's builders didn't take power factor into account--an engineering error.  Doesn't apply to homes as the utility provider handles the power factor correction.

        If you ask "what color is the poster" when someone criticizes the President's policy or track record, you are probably a racist. If you assume white progressives don't like the President's policies because of his skin color, you are definitely a racist.

        by Celtic Pugilist on Wed Jul 20, 2011 at 08:28:49 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  CFL's more tolerant, not less (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      humphrey

      In the one historic home where I've replaced incandescents, the CFL's performed far better because they could handle the "fluctuating current" (poor wiring) whereas the incandescents could not.  

      I've not seen "muddy light" from a CFL.  That dog won't hunt.  The hue differs, either somewhat more yellow or more blue depending on the type of CFL, but I wouldn't characterize it as "muddy."  And there is no flicker either, so don't go there.  And if you test a few types (avoid GE's) you can easily get bulbs that are instant on--no delay.  Not only that, but they are some of the least expensive at around $1.50 each (Home Depot's store brand "nVision" or "Ecosmart" or whatever they call it this year.)

      Personally, I don't care if you want to waste your money on incandescents--knock yourself out.  But I have observed that I can't seem to sell my old ones on the cheap at garage sales--I've been trying to twice a year for the past 3 years and have only sold one or two of the old bulbs, even though I keep a lamp handy to demonstrate the old bulbs still work.  I've got about 50+ in the garage right now.  

      Some CFL's actually cost about the same per bulb as the inandescents.  This is true of globe type fixtures (hollywood lighting vanities.)  Replacing the fixtures with ones that will take a standard CFL has been a terrific upgrade in appearance, plus I never have to replace those ~$1 each incandescents.

      I do have CFL failures...about 1 per year over the past 4 years.  I like not having to replace bulbs frequently.  I've been using CFL's throughout various homes for 6 years.  Had some "infant mortality" in the first sets and they were replaced under warranty.

      If you ask "what color is the poster" when someone criticizes the President's policy or track record, you are probably a racist. If you assume white progressives don't like the President's policies because of his skin color, you are definitely a racist.

      by Celtic Pugilist on Wed Jul 20, 2011 at 08:57:52 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  It's no use hectoring me (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        rockhound

        that my lamps can't possibly be slow to come on with CFs and some never all the way making it.  I see them and you don't.  They stay dim yellowish-brown and horrible for up to 20 minutes, then suddenly brighten partways but not adequately.   I've tried cheap brands and expensive brands.  I've tried different hues and styles.  

        My opposition isn't ideological so it has to come from somewhere.  The problem for me is both functional and aesthetic, and for you to tell me that it CAN'T possibly be functional nor aesthetic is just silly -- if there weren't differences, they wouldn't bother me.

        "The extinction of the human race will come from its inability to EMOTIONALLY comprehend the exponential function." -- Edward Teller

        by lgmcp on Wed Jul 20, 2011 at 09:16:04 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  If it is that awful, you need to have it checked (0+ / 0-)

          Something is seriously FUBAR and most likely dangerous with your wiring or service.  

          But one thing is certain...it isn't the CFL's that are the problem.  Your claim about the CFL' lighting being the problem was and is bullocks.  Your wiring is outside the 99th percentile range.  The only thing I've seen similar to it was in a historic home where in one room we couldn't even get incandescents to work, but CFL's did.  Stayed that way until they could get the old wiring replaced.

          If you ask "what color is the poster" when someone criticizes the President's policy or track record, you are probably a racist. If you assume white progressives don't like the President's policies because of his skin color, you are definitely a racist.

          by Celtic Pugilist on Wed Jul 20, 2011 at 09:27:12 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Bullocks or no, they do fine with incandescents (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            rockhound

            and the breakers trip appropriately and only as needed.  Inexpensive circuit protectors seem quite adequate to the life of our electronics.  

            But maybe I will have the worst one, in the recessed ceiling can, checked.  

            "The extinction of the human race will come from its inability to EMOTIONALLY comprehend the exponential function." -- Edward Teller

            by lgmcp on Wed Jul 20, 2011 at 09:34:14 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  flactuating current (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      lgmcp

      Unless you have had your wiring checked out already, and your entire neighborhood has fluctuating voltage, get the wiring checked out.

      My mother lives in a 100 year old apartment in NYC. The lights started to flicker, fuse box was warm to the touch, it was the main feeder connections to the fuse box finally working  loose.

      Your old house may have the same problems of connections loosening up and maybe the old insulation failing.

      •  Feeder connections is a good place to check (0+ / 0-)

        because the line is aerial and withstands a lot of wind.

        "The extinction of the human race will come from its inability to EMOTIONALLY comprehend the exponential function." -- Edward Teller

        by lgmcp on Wed Jul 20, 2011 at 09:51:17 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Nicely done (6+ / 0-)

    A few interesting points folks might want to know:

    Burning coal to run an incandescent puts more mercury into the environment than a broken CFL.

    The only way to be exposed to all of the mercury in a CFL is to eat it, since much remains attached to the coating on the glass.

    The tea bulbers aren't even protesting CFLs, they're protesting the new incandescent that the industry has already invented and wants to produce.

    The industry needs the new regulation in order to create a market for these new incandescents, because they're more expensive than the old incandescents, putting them on-par cost-wise with ... the more-efficient CFLs. Thus they're not competing with other incandescents, but with CFLs.

    They would rather compete on color quality than price, but they can't do that when there's a lower-priced equivalent of the old technology on the market.

    The tea bulbers have not only shot themselves in the foot (more mercury, higher energy costs), they've just pitted the coal lobby against the lighting lobby (you know, little guys, like GE and Phillips). I bet the bulb manufacturers are in a snit, right about now.

    You may be able to outrun your friend for the moment, but the grizzly named "Avarice" *always* has plenty of appetite for you both...

    by radical simplicity on Wed Jul 20, 2011 at 07:09:15 AM PDT

    •  Oh, yeah, forgot one: (6+ / 0-)

      The maximum amount of mercury vapor released from a broken CFL is 17% of its total mercury content (5mg). The only way to be sure you get all of that 17% into your system is to put the bulb in a sealed container, attach some kind of mask to it that keeps you from breathing any other air, then breathe the air from the contaminated bulb for a full 8 hours - since that's how long it takes that 17% of the ~4mg of mercury to be released.  

      In the real world, if you do a really crappy job of cleaning up the bulb - breaking it on a shag carpet, then vacuuming up the dust and glass, sending as much bulb dust as possible into the air, after letting it sit for 8 hours, in a closed room - in which you've sat with the bulb, you will get about the same exposure as eating a single forkful of regular canned tuna. Though it would take most of a can of light tuna to get you there.

      ... And canned tuna is among the lowest-mercury fish options.

      You may be able to outrun your friend for the moment, but the grizzly named "Avarice" *always* has plenty of appetite for you both...

      by radical simplicity on Wed Jul 20, 2011 at 07:21:21 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Okay, this information is helpful. BUT -- (2+ / 0-)

        my problem isn't just with the possibility of breathing mercury gas, or any other form of immediate harm to me personally.  My problem is producing enough CFLs for hundreds of millions of people to use -- billions, eventually -- when that mercury will then be present in the environment in some way, whether we breath it or not.  

        I know that currently florescent bulbs are supposed to be treated as toxic waste and taken to special recycling centers.  The one near me is open by appointment only, and I can't get anyone there to call me back.  I know that many florescent bulbs simply end up in the trash, and hence in the landfill, where the mercury can leach into soil and water along with all the other toxins we dump into the biosphere.  And even if they end up in a properly designated spot for disposal, is there actually anything good to be done with them?  Can the mercury be extracted and recycled? Or what can reasonably be done with it?

        As I said, I haven't really been tuned in to this issue, aside from low-level worry and annoyance.  Why aren't envirnomentalists pushing the use of more efficient incandescents instead of CFLs?  THere may be good reasons, in terms of trade-offs.  But taht certainly hasn't been clear.

        Anyway, thanks for the info on individual exposure, which of course is important too, and will let me reassure one of my relatives who's been resisting CFLs based on the very fears you're addressing.  

        •  If every single CFL ever used (0+ / 0-)

          You're getting more mercury in the air from the coal being burned to power an incandescent bulb than you would if you pulverized a CFL in a closed room with a hammer.

          The mercury can be recycled - and it is - most hardware stores collect CFLs for recycling, and all the big-box stores do. The interesting thing is:

          If the two most-used incandescents in every home in the US were replaced with CFLs (roughy 225 million bulbs), it would take as much coal-induced mercury out of the air as you would find in over 8 billion CFLs. And eliminate the need for roughly 18 coal-burning plants.

          (I'll try to remember to post all the nitty-gritty data on Saturday - I've got a friend researching this for a presentation - we were stunned when he made the calculation).

          The coal industry started a FUD campaign, and have done a great job scaring people away from cleaner tech.

          In the mean time, if you don't even want to have to try to deal with any mercury, try LEDs. And stop eating fish.

          You may be able to outrun your friend for the moment, but the grizzly named "Avarice" *always* has plenty of appetite for you both...

          by radical simplicity on Wed Jul 20, 2011 at 10:33:49 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Again, thanks for the useful info. THe most (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            radical simplicity, greengemini

            valuable part to me is that CFLs can be readily recycled.  (I haven't seen nor heard about collection boxes in hardware stores, but can seek them out.)  As I said, I'm not only concerned with breathing mercury but with it ending up in the land and water.  Especially the water.  The pollution of the ocean is tragic.  Already.  Doesn't need more mercury.  So, while the Rightwing objectors to florescents probably don't care, for me the recycling is important.

            I will certainly, in any case, shift to more efficient bulbs -- I already have some CFLs despite my uneasiness up to this point.  I'll probably end up combining those with some of the long-lasting incandescents, but I should check out LEDs too.

            I don't eat fish as freely as I used to, certainly.  That's a big loss to me, and will increasingly be a loss to humanity.  The mercury already found in fish is no argument against worrying about the presence of mercury in a widespread new product, CFLs.  It's all the more reason to worry about it.  Isn't that obvious?

            Appreciative as I am of your specific knowledge, I'd have been even happier if you didn't seem dismissive of my concern about mercury in the billions of CFLs that will be produced over time.  Small amounts multiplied by billions matter.  This is a nitpick, as this thread has been very useful to me, but it's something to keep in mind when talking to questioners who are environmentally concerned and are not wingnuts.  

            Thanks--

            Fiona

            •  Sorry if it sounded like dissmissiveness (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              MGK, Fiona West

              It's not intended to be.

              The point I tried to make via too many words:

              The small amount of mercury in a bulb displaces a very large amount of mercury from the electrical generation plant, starting the moment it's first used.

              Power plant mercury is the primary mercury source for our waterways, our air, and our soil.

              Every CFL that replaces an incandescent reduces the overall mercury load in our environment significantly - even if every single CFL were broken.

              You'd have to intentionally break 35 CFLs in a way that would release all of the mercury, and dispose of that waste improperly in order to reach the amount of mercury released as a result of using a single incandescent.

              If you think of how many light bulbs you've broken in your life thus far, you get an idea how unlikely it is that you'll break even a small handful in your lifetime.

              LEDs further reduce the mercury by not having any, and by using even less energy than CFLs, thus even further reducing power plant emissions.

              Since climate disruption promises to be a tsunami of horror relative to ordinary pollution, it's imperative that we start  - immediately - to reduce energy use as much as possible, including switching all of our light bulbs to the least energy wasting bulbs we can afford (and repeating the process on a regular basis - as new technologies become available and as prices drop).

              I've been fighting CFL FUD-mongers on other sites for months (they've been targeting environmental press sites), and am seriously worried about the damage they've already done with their scare tactics. How much mercury would have been kept out of the air already if people had switched a year ago?

              Think of all the people who, like you, have heard about the dangers of mercury in CFLs, but not about the amount of mercury they prevent from polluting our homes, air, water, and soil. Multiply the months you've been avoiding buying more by the amount of mercury produced by every incandescent you haven't replaced. And worse, look at the tons of CO2 that have been pumped into the atmosphere by the energy wasted by those un-changed bulbs.

              It's really, really important that we start immediately. The FUD is designed to keep coal profits up - not to keep anyone safe.

              Once the bear eats your friend, there's no one left to outrun. And it'll still be hungry.

              by radical simplicity on Wed Jul 20, 2011 at 08:42:49 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Well, that 35 to 1 ratio is pretty definitive. (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                radical simplicity

                And while I knew that mercury is one of many pollutants produced by burning coal, I didn't realize that:

                Power plant mercury is the primary mercury source for our waterways, our air, and our soil.

                So I'm convinced, and will henceforth serve the cause of the [energy efficient] light.  CFLs, LEDs, and even long-lasting incandescents if needed.  (Who'd have thought I'd ever find myself siding with GE?)

                Out of curiosity, what are some of the environmental press sites where you've been battling FUD-mongers?

                Thanks for your continuing efforts.

                •  There are several (0+ / 0-)

                  Grist, Treehugger, some local ones.

                  I use different names in different places - after a real life stalker became an online stalker, I had to cease having an online trail identified with the real me, but I'm out there.

                  I hope you'll get great service from your new lights - you'll definitely save money, and help future generations, too. :-)

                  Be sure to check out the yellow-toned LEDs you can now find in some of the big-box hardware stores. They look odd in the store, but they give off a very pleasant soft-white light when in use.

                  If you only find the blue-ish ones, there's even a solution for that. We have some older LED "library" lights from Ikea. They were waaaaay too blue, so I colored the decorative plastic lens with yellow and orange highlighters. Problem solved! You can do the same with Regular LED bulbs - jut be sure you're coloring the decorative cover (the outer shell that makes it look like a regular bulb), and not the actual LEDs (the little dots that light up).

                  Once the bear eats your friend, there's no one left to outrun. And it'll still be hungry.

                  by radical simplicity on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 05:59:44 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

      •  Tuna (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        radical simplicity

        Could you show a website supporting the statement about doing all that incorrect cleaning and only being exposed to the amount of mercury in tuna?  Thanks.

        Never argue with idiots. They'll just drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.

        by reality77 on Wed Jul 20, 2011 at 09:40:18 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  If you want to take my whale oil... (9+ / 0-)

    You'll have to pry it from my cold, dead hands.

    During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.
    - George Orwell

    by HairyTrueMan on Wed Jul 20, 2011 at 07:09:58 AM PDT

  •  Increasingly (3+ / 0-)

    the rights idea of freedom is tied to various acts of consumption.  CAFE standards impair one's freedom to drive the a gas guzzling car of one's choice.  Light bulb standards impair one's freedom to spend money basking in an incandescent glow.  One might even think they are just supporting one energy company or another.  One might even come to the conclusion they are not really a grass roots organization at their core.

  •  So let's abandon the CFL (3+ / 0-)

    and go straight to L.E.D. bulbs!


    In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice; but in practice, there always is a difference. - Yogi Berra

    by blue aardvark on Wed Jul 20, 2011 at 07:12:47 AM PDT

  •  Anybody else been.. (4+ / 0-)

    ...struck by the irony that the universal symbol for getting an orignal idea is a light bulb being turned on over your head?

    That's sort of the default joke for this foolishness, but I've yet to see it utilized.

     

    When Fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in excess body fat and carrying a misspelled sign.

    by wyvern on Wed Jul 20, 2011 at 07:13:38 AM PDT

    •  I'd love to trace the history of that image (0+ / 0-)

      Did it originate with Edison himself, or in cartoons about him? The notion of light dispelling darkness is obvious, but how was it depicted in, say, 1850?

      into the blue again, after the money's gone

      by Prof Haley on Wed Jul 20, 2011 at 08:04:58 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  CFLs suck... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    BOHICA

    Worst.light.ever.

    •  The bill was not eliminating incandescents (3+ / 0-)

      See this comment:

      http://www.dailykos.com/...

      You may be able to outrun your friend for the moment, but the grizzly named "Avarice" *always* has plenty of appetite for you both...

      by radical simplicity on Wed Jul 20, 2011 at 07:35:39 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  they are great (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Celtic Pugilist

      last way longer and use a lot less electricity.

      "The only person sure of himself is the man who wishes to leave things as they are, and he dreams of an impossibility" -George M. Wrong.

      by statsone on Wed Jul 20, 2011 at 07:43:49 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  They also take up more space (0+ / 0-)

        which is why I'll never be able to use them 100%. "Compact"? Still waiting ...

        into the blue again, after the money's gone

        by Prof Haley on Wed Jul 20, 2011 at 08:06:48 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  The new LEDs might work for you (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          gosoxataboy

          We just got some that are pretty much the same shape and size as incandescent bulbs.

        •  Then you need to look again (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Prof Haley, MJ via Chicago, statsone

          Sylvania has some compact types called "micro-minis" that I've been using for several years in services with old fixtures that were tight, including retrofitting to garage door openers.   I've even used some to replace the small spots in tracklighting.  (The CFL's that are made with enclosures to work as spots or globes are crap though--not instant on, take a long time to reach full illumination.)

          The worst CFL's are the GE's.  I returned quite a few when testing them.  They are overly long and wide.  Plus they are not instant on and they fail at a higher rate from what I've seen of them.  Home Depot's store brand is about 3/8" shorter as I recall and usually fit into old fixtures that the GE will not.  

          If you ask "what color is the poster" when someone criticizes the President's policy or track record, you are probably a racist. If you assume white progressives don't like the President's policies because of his skin color, you are definitely a racist.

          by Celtic Pugilist on Wed Jul 20, 2011 at 09:10:05 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Incandescents SUCK (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      MJ via Chicago

      ...they suck lots of money, waste a lot of energy, and add a lot of heat where it isn't needed.

      Lighting from CFL's is fine.

      If you ask "what color is the poster" when someone criticizes the President's policy or track record, you are probably a racist. If you assume white progressives don't like the President's policies because of his skin color, you are definitely a racist.

      by Celtic Pugilist on Wed Jul 20, 2011 at 09:01:04 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Bulbs are a communist plot -- (6+ / 0-)

    the Dutch have all those tulip bulbs and they are EUROPEAN for God's sake.

    We have only just begun and none too soon.

    by global citizen on Wed Jul 20, 2011 at 07:21:03 AM PDT

  •  But filament light bulbs are a plot to take away (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    radical simplicity, splashy, humphrey

    our kerosene lanterns!

    For relevant sci-fi and fantasy, go to http://www.betty-cross-author.net/

    by Kimball Cross on Wed Jul 20, 2011 at 07:39:22 AM PDT

  •  I almost spewed my coffee (3+ / 0-)

    at the "you can pry my bulbs from my cold dead lamps" sign.

    Thomas Edison, founding father....LOL

    You've perfectly captured the inane nature of their light bulb obsession. Well done indeed.

    "Compassion is the radicalism of our time." -- Tenzin Gyatso, 14th Dalai Lama

    by Siri on Wed Jul 20, 2011 at 07:39:46 AM PDT

  •  this whole thing gets amusing (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Celtic Pugilist

    as long as you can still get incandescents for the applications they're suited for...why get in the way of progress

    kinda reminds me of the film vs digital wars of 10 years ago

    PLEASE donate to a global children's PEACE project: Chalk 4 Peace

    by RumsfeldResign on Wed Jul 20, 2011 at 07:48:12 AM PDT

  •  Way too funny! (0+ / 0-)

    That was hilarious!  Sometimes, I am simply amazed at the stupidity of people.  Then I become sad because these people are the ones being used to leverage the elimination of the middle class.

    Great comic!

  •  CFL = FSM? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Fiona West, Jen Sorensen

    The spiral of a CFL is suspiciously like a symbol, a stylized icon that looks like the Flying Spaghetti Monster!  Yes, the guvmint is placing Pastafarian religious totems ALL OVER YOUR HOUSE! Even yellow ones in the the porch!

    ---------------------- Avaritia facit Bardus (greed makes you stupid)

    by Everbody on Wed Jul 20, 2011 at 08:19:43 AM PDT

  •  All this happens if yer (0+ / 0-)

    learned by yer mammy like I were.

    Just as prostitution is the world's oldest profession, religion is the world's oldest scam.

    by Agent420 on Wed Jul 20, 2011 at 09:34:29 AM PDT

  •  recycle (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    greengemini

    The amount of mercury in one bulb isn't much.  But I work in a state environmental protection agency and it took 30 years to convince the gov't and citizens and industry to put less mercury into the environment.  Now we are going to put a hell of a lot back in through the millions of bulbs that are being sold and will break or burn out and get disposed one day.

    Sure, it'll save electricity and result in less burning of coal.  But we ought to force the power industry to install more efficient scrubbers rather than continue to give them grandfathering outs.  And we ought to concentrate more on forcing the gov't to support renewables.

    And the vast majority of Americans don't understand that these bulbs must be recycled responsibly.

    http://www.epa.gov/...

    Finally, it's disappointing that many Kosacks insist on making fun of different points of view than their own.

    Never argue with idiots. They'll just drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.

    by reality77 on Wed Jul 20, 2011 at 09:47:49 AM PDT

  •  GOP/Tea Party (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TofG

    GOP/Tea Party & their Lunatic Fringe, fight to keep Freedom Filaments from dying out. O! say can you see by the dawn's early light

    In case you missed it: The GOP House voted the Bill down...BUT, they then added it to a spending a Bill and it passed giving these Freedom Filament crusaders another year before new regs go into affect...

    When I changed all the bulbs in my house a few years ago, my utility bill went down by almost ten percent, but 6 months later NVEnergy raised their rates which sucked out the savings that I first saw with those Bills before the rate increase.

    Las Vegas Democrat Examiner | Examiner.com

    by David Phillips on Wed Jul 20, 2011 at 10:09:01 AM PDT

  •  My favorite (hope it's not an urban legend) are (0+ / 0-)

    he people buying thousands of incandescents to last a lifetime. :) That'll show them socialist environmentalists.

    And of course that radical rightie Stephen Colbert leaving lights on everywhere to defy them. Perhaps his superpac can help keep incandescents burning (there's a song there somewhere).

  •  Seems like a perfect issue (0+ / 0-)

    If Republicans want to tie themselves to such issues we should encourage them--it is so silly. They're just looking for something that will be a tribal marker. Because intelligent people insist on facts and reason, the right takes on an anti-science anti-reason stance. If the left got unreasonable and started saying some equivalent bullshit then the right would take the "reasonable" stance. Most conservatives are opposed to environmentalism simply because people from a different cultural background do favor environmental regulation.

    It doesn't matter because these are just the kinds of differences the oligarchs love to emphasize--keeping the eye away from the really critical issues of who has the power and what are they going to do with it.

  •  anyone else (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TofG

    think its really funny that the tea party dolts act as they do: they will buy shirts and signs by the thousand, then cant use em after a week as the democrats agreed with them, so they had to change posiitons (and T shirts) again even farther to the right.

    They pay for bus tickets to events, they want in lines to be ignored by their celebrity politicians/wanna be politicians/ sarah palin.

    Since they are paying rich people money, and the people going to the events are poor, often in poverty...Well, lets just say, you wont find many tales of Robin Hood in which the sheriff, so overburdened by the constant peasant refusal to pay their already generous taxes ("Two of your three children are still alive! Why cant you be a "glass half full" person? Or, 2/3 in this case.") that he set up a sting to catch that rapscalion once and for all

    Because thats a stupid story and it was already written, something abou Atlas Slumps, or Atillas the Hun or something. I dont know, i dont keep up on stupid.

    It felt like rather a long time, but then long times get longer when you're standing around thinking about them. A curious thing, that. Long roads get longer too, if you're thinking about them, but what about long words? They don't change nearly as much

    by kamrom on Wed Jul 20, 2011 at 07:53:27 PM PDT

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