Skip to main content

There is a general feeling across many of the local occupations, and among the on-line folk, that the OWS movement is losing steam. I think that's true, and I think I know one of the reasons why.

The other day, I was having a conversation about the Occupations at this place: We were discussing the problem of how to deal with the disruptions caused by mentally ill participants at meetings. I had this to say:

“Occupy has a problem, not just with the mentally ill, but with inclusion generally. OWS was designed from the very beginning to be an “all inclusive” movement, to represent the “99″, with especial emphasis on under-represented communities. Thus, the General Assembly and Spokes Council structures were adopted with the explicit idea of utilizing consensus as the basis of decision making. This was also the basis of claiming to be a “leaderless movement”, one that didn’t respond or follow one particular narrow interest, like the Democratic Party or the Labor Movement. It also didn’t restrict itself to a particular issue like political corruption or unemployment. It sought to give voice to all stakeholders in society, and that has been it’s primary strength.

But it’s strength is also the source of the greatest frustrations and problems. I am aware of many examples over at the NYCGA threads where a group of people complain that one or another meeting or project is being “blocked” by a single recalcitrant individual … There are complaints of parades being hijacked by the Black Blockers, meetings taken over by anarchists, and projects sabotaged by people with a particular political agenda. There was even one incident recently where someone who had physically assaulted other participants was nevertheless allowed to continue attending meetings. The point is that it isnt just the mentally ill or the homeless that are causing disruptions, and NY isnt the only place where this sort of thing happens.

In short, Occupy has a general weakness with enforcing rules and standards. No simple solution presents itself. There are solutions, but they aren’t simple ones, they consist primarily of a large number of techniques that have been developed by protest movements over time. What the occupations need is better training in meeting and event facilitation, but that takes time and money…”

It’s very enlightening to look at some of the news stories that were done on OWS back at the beginning. For example, this one: In it, Kalle Lasn (one of Adbuster’s editors, and an early organizer of the original occupation) has this to say:

“Originally we thought that the idea of one demand was very important. There’s been a debate going on between the one-demand vision and this other vision that is playing itself out right now on Wall Street. I think it’s a wonderful debate and there are good pointers on both sides. Currently this leaderless, demandless movement — that is still growing in leaps and bounds — I think it is fine the way it is. After these assemblies have been conducted and debates have been had in cities all around America, demands will emerge. These demands will be specific things like reinstatement of the Glass-Steagall Act or a 1 percent tax on financial transactions or the banning of high-frequency trading. We will get into specifics, just give us time.”

But his timeline was something like November. Now it’s February, and still no coherent demands. He also says “The political left has always had problems with this. All my life I’ve been sitting in meetings where loony guys get up and talk, and eventually very little happens. This is the kind of weight that is dragging the political left down. We don’t seem to have the clarity of vision that for example the Tea Party has. This may be our undoing again…”

I’m not claiming that this is exactly what has happened, but I do say Occupy still has a problem with managing inclusion. Without formal leaders, OWS will always be vulnerable to being hijacked by informal “leaders” who, because few procedural restraints are in place, easily turn into petty tyrants. Ironically, according to David Graeber, this was how the original General Assembly was born in the first place:

“So a few of us, me and my friends, showed up at this announced general assembly on August 2nd to plan the Wall street action on September 17th. And we were rather disgruntled to discover that it wasn’t a general assembly at all.” Graeber characterized what they found instead as organizers standing on a stage, rallying through microphones, calling for the assembled people to march with a list of demands the organizers had already printed. [As an alternative] “Have a group of people, without a leadership structure, come together and make decisions collectively. And people within the anarchist, anti-authoritarian and also feminist traditions in America have been working for years on how to do that, people kind of know how you can conduct a meeting in a real democratic way. There’s been a lot of people putting a lot of thought into that. But he hadn’t really done it on a mass basis. So we thought, let’s try.” He said that organizers tried to keep control of the action and would not shift the structure to one he would find more democratic. “So we formed a circle on the other side of Bowling Green, and gradually everyone started breaking off from the rally and came over to ours, and that was the real birth of the movement.”

Now, I cant say how accurate his version of events is, since I wasn’t there, but I find it interesting that apparently a similar pattern is still repeating itself. OWS is, I think, at a cross-roads of sorts. If it doesn't move ahead it will eventually dissipate, but in order to move ahead I think it needs to return to first principles, and by that I mean principles of self-organizing. It's very difficult for leaderless groups to be successful. It can be done, but it requires a lot of skill. It would help if someone would write down an "Idiot's Guide" to organizing a protest movement, but until someone does, it requires research and continuous re-commitment.

But here’s the thing- we solved this once, and we can do it again. We have to keep with it, make it work, follow the principles and techniques that feminist groups and international protest movements have developed before us, and get a set of principles, then goals, then action plans to accomplish the goals, passed through our General Assemblies. It’s really a test of the whole Occupy principle- and this is the real moment of truth. If we remain true to the spirit of genuine democracy, we cant lose.

Read more essays at my web site:

Your Email has been sent.
You must add at least one tag to this diary before publishing it.

Add keywords that describe this diary. Separate multiple keywords with commas.
Tagging tips - Search For Tags - Browse For Tags


More Tagging tips:

A tag is a way to search for this diary. If someone is searching for "Barack Obama," is this a diary they'd be trying to find?

Use a person's full name, without any title. Senator Obama may become President Obama, and Michelle Obama might run for office.

If your diary covers an election or elected official, use election tags, which are generally the state abbreviation followed by the office. CA-01 is the first district House seat. CA-Sen covers both senate races. NY-GOV covers the New York governor's race.

Tags do not compound: that is, "education reform" is a completely different tag from "education". A tag like "reform" alone is probably not meaningful.

Consider if one or more of these tags fits your diary: Civil Rights, Community, Congress, Culture, Economy, Education, Elections, Energy, Environment, Health Care, International, Labor, Law, Media, Meta, National Security, Science, Transportation, or White House. If your diary is specific to a state, consider adding the state (California, Texas, etc). Keep in mind, though, that there are many wonderful and important diaries that don't fit in any of these tags. Don't worry if yours doesn't.

You can add a private note to this diary when hotlisting it:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from your hotlist?
Are you sure you want to remove your recommendation? You can only recommend a diary once, so you will not be able to re-recommend it afterwards.
Rescue this diary, and add a note:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from Rescue?
Choose where to republish this diary. The diary will be added to the queue for that group. Publish it from the queue to make it appear.

You must be a member of a group to use this feature.

Add a quick update to your diary without changing the diary itself:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary?
(The diary will be removed from the site and returned to your drafts for further editing.)
(The diary will be removed.)
Are you sure you want to save these changes to the published diary?

Comment Preferences

  •  Tip Jar (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    gravlax, rcnewton, Sunspots, kaliope, RageKage

    See my web page at

    by DeMarquis on Sun Feb 19, 2012 at 10:49:55 AM PST

  •  The zombie lie that will never die. (37+ / 0-)
    still no coherent demands

    Do people expect the Occupy movement to somehow write legislation?

    How much clearer can Occupiers be than repeatedly and insistently demanding

      -- the end of Citizens' United, the end of treating corporations like people

      -- the stopping of foreclosures, as demonstrated by innumerable actions around the country where foreclosures are being challenged by civil disobedience

      -- demands that the 1% pay their fair share of taxes, instead of an ever-decreasing percentage.

    There are plenty of wonks who are perfectly capable of writing legislation to implement these very coherent and very prominent points that the Occupy movement has repeatedly and repeatedly and repeatedly and repeatedly made, each time to be told that they

    "have no coherent message."

    •  It's not exactly a lie (15+ / 0-)

      I think of it as a repeated attempt at infiltration by those who want to destroy it.

      It just frosts the asses of the one-percenters that they can't take over this movement. And they won't because this isn't some "party movement" that can be corporatized.

      It's real. And it's not going anywhere and it's not failing and it's not losing steam.

      It is time to #Occupy Media.

      by lunachickie on Sun Feb 19, 2012 at 11:13:46 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Occupy isn't a straight line. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        Please identify one corporate agent who has tried to infiltrate and destroy Occupy. And name of the agency or outfit they work for too. No examples of self identified cops please.

        The people I think are harmful to Occupy are vandals, black blocheads and the undercover police they hang out with. These clowns are an endless source of bad press. And scare away people who want to participate in Occupy but don't want to get caught up in a street brawl that was organized as a peaceful protest or action.

        The goals of Occupy can be promoted in almost any venue, including a precinct meeting of an established political party, a Union meeting, a town hall or county supervisor meeting. Or any other organized venue. All this can happen right along side Occupy camps, marches and street actions.

        I just became aware of the work of an Occupier named Alisha Goldstein. She and some other participants of the Occupy SEC  group wrote a 200 plus page comment on the Volker Rule that could trigger the re-instatement of Glass-Steaggle. Serious work done so that not only banksters have comment  and input on this vitally important subject. Is she an agent trying to destroy Occupy because she didn't wrap her work around a brick and throw it thru Bernanke's window? Or is Occupy SEC  opening another avenue to push Occupy goals in order to make them law instead of just shouting them into an echo chamber GA meeting?

        And Occupy will run out of steam if every time someone tries to expand Occupy out of the streets they are attacked as agents of Davos.  

        •  Frankly, I'm not sure (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          why you're even responding to me. You must have mixed me up with an enemy of #Occupy in your zeal to post your prepared screed on "getting serious".

          if every time someone tries to expand Occupy out of the streets they are attacked as agents of Davos
          Why don't you tell us a little more about Ms. Goldstein's personal qualifications to be a part of "#Occupy SEC"? I had a very difficult time identifying her in a google search...

          It is time to #Occupy Media.

          by lunachickie on Sun Feb 19, 2012 at 12:50:39 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I have screeds you have opinions? (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            edrie, rcnewton, erush1345

            What qualifications do you have to speak for and participate  in Occupy? Why should anyone in sympathy with occupy have to have "qualifications"? You may not have heard of her and she may not have much of a paper trail, but I think she will and soon. And because I think participating in the legislative process is important work doesn't mean I don't the camps, stopping evictions, or marching isn't serious work too.

            Don't we all get to participate, or support Occupy in anyway we can?

            •  And how did you become aware of her? (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:

              Is she your friend? I was just asking because I never heard of her, and you seemed to imply that you could speak for her or on behalf of her (or something, until her, uhh, paper trail materializes).

              I am sure you can do whatever you want, right now, even. From where I sit, nobody is stopping you. Even if that's wrong, if you're getting somewhere in whatever it is you're doing to contribute to the movement, there's certainly no need to be so defensive...

              It is time to #Occupy Media.

              by lunachickie on Sun Feb 19, 2012 at 01:48:06 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  I saw her interviewed on the tv machine. (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:

                She was on the Chris Hayes show this Sunday morning. I wasn't speaking for her I was impressed by her, and the Occupy SEC she works with. As I am impressed with the Occupy groups who stop families from being evicted. And as i admire the organizing efforts of the anarchists who helped create Occupy Wall St. Even tho I don't agree with most anarchists on tactics, strategies, or goals for the most part.

                And I don't screed.

                But I have  thought about this diaries topic and a diary I checked out and commented to last week.Same topic and point of view. And  this person was selling pamphlets. So I could be a bit hasty in dismissing the idea that corporate interests aren't trying to undermine Occupy by employing hired scribblers. Of course they would and probably are. But that doesn't mean that people with a point of view different from yours are corporate hired guns. But, they could be.

                And all I have done for Occupy is contribute money for winter supplies. I live in a small town in an area unaffected by mass foreclosures or layoffs because we don't have mass anything. But like millions all over America there are many of us here inspired by Occupy, contributing and itching to do more.

                My wife and I do travel hundreds of miles to take part in marches or rallies. We're getting old and we like em peaceful.
                And non violence is something we have strong opinions about.


          •  Who made you the fucking Occupy gatekeeper? (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            rcnewton, erush1345
        •  the issue is deeper than that (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Sunspots, Grabber by the Heel, FG

          And there's not a simple answer, which is why it's taking so much time to figure it out.

          Being leaderless and generally eschewing ten-point plans and party platforms is great, defensively--it makes it very very hard for the system to use its media to co-opt the movement or perform effective character assassinations on the movement or its adherents (hard, not impossible).

          But it also makes it very difficult to take unified actions or have any kind of long-term strategies. And I really believe that though we should act locally, we need to think at least nationally if we want to succed.  And, additionally, we need to dream together about what winning looks like. That's hard, without top-down leadership and platforms (hard, not impossible).

          It would be easier with solid dependable communications. IOW, without the cops targeting journalists of all stripes.

          Being ignored is the difference between being a one percenter and an American.--sweeper

          by SouthernLiberalinMD on Sun Feb 19, 2012 at 02:03:06 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  What's this responding to? (5+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          blueoasis, lunachickie, cynndara, AoT, nicolemm

          I don't think there's disagreement that Occupy is everywhere. I just think people are tired of hearing from those with grand proposals for what Occupy must become if it is to mean anything. I don't see how they can suggest others must assemble in a different manner, without personally working to bring them together. How the hell else will they come together around this supposedly greater model? If Occupy is dissipating (it isn't) and nobody else is doing what needs to be done (they are), and you have some solution (...), and you really do care (...), then why the report of its imminent demise instead of a helpful diary containing resources, or research, or anecdotes of success? Why not a request for such resources from the Orange community?

          People Occupying the SEC aren't the 'agents from Davos'. It's the people forever picking nits with Occupy's methods without getting their own hands dirty that are accused of having other sympathies (hyperbolically, I hope).

    •  No coherent message? (10+ / 0-)

      "We have only the moral ground we actually inhabit, not the moral ground we claim." - It Really Is That Important

      by Diogenes2008 on Sun Feb 19, 2012 at 11:40:55 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Yes, Occupy should write legislation. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      rcnewton, SquirrelWhisperer

      Goals to bill, bill to law.

      •  Either they won't pass, or they'll be watered down (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        joe wobblie, nicolemm
        •  Occupy already changed the national economic (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Catte Nappe, rcnewton, cynndara

          discussion. We are now discussing economic inequality instead of austerity. A huge accomplishment by people who just pitched some tents and explained why.

          And we should try to pass legislation and regulation that works for the 99%. And it will fail or get watered down. And Occupy SEC can keep trying. While Occupy whatever else keeps trying and trying what they are doing.

          Why not attack in all directions? Occupy every thing.  

          •  If you seriously think that legislation that was (0+ / 0-)

            written by occupy would have a chance in hell of passing then you are, to be blunt, a fucking idiot.  Have you looked at congress lately?

            Or do you just want us to try even though we know it will inevitably fail?

            There revolution will not be televised. But it will be blogged, a lot. Probably more so than is necessary.

            by AoT on Sun Feb 19, 2012 at 09:13:40 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  There is a lot of Occupy going around. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:

              And it's going every which a way. Hit the googlewebs and check out Occupy SEC. I just learned about it today. I'm sharing. These Occupeople appear to be Wall St savvy and skilled in the black arts of financial sausage making. And they are attempting to keep input and comment on the already weakened "Volker Rule" which is of course under attack, from being solely from Wall St lobbyists. They are trying to get one of their number called as a witness in the upcoming hearings. You are right about their efforts being an uphill rock roll. It is worth a try and it isn't skin off of anyone's ass but their own. Good luck to them.

              And of course Occupy should try to influence legislation about Wall St. Have you heard of Occupy Wall St? It started in New York somewhere around Wall St. It inspired the country and asked the 99% to stick up for the 99% of the country. And these Occupiers have answered the call.

              And the next time you are being blunt and calling someone a fucking idiot, go stand in front of a mirror.

              •  I might have heard of that. And you didn't (0+ / 0-)

                address my comment at all.  If you think that any piece of legislation that occupy writes has a chance in hell of passing in congress then you are in fact an idiot.

                And I would thank you very much not to lecture me on why I quit my job and got a one way ticket to New York all those months ago.

                There revolution will not be televised. But it will be blogged, a lot. Probably more so than is necessary.

                by AoT on Sun Feb 19, 2012 at 11:06:26 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  I did address your point. (0+ / 0-)

                  I wrote that it would be an uphill battle that they would probably lose. Hell even the Progressive Caucus in congress can't get a budget read by the leadership or discussed in the press. So how much water is Occupy SEC gonna draw? Not much, but it is a great thing to try. When Occupy critics say the movement has no goals we can tell them to check out the congressional record. Occupy everything.

                  I keep reading posts on this site by the Occupy Aristocrats and anarchists know it alls, that people shouldn't criticize any particular group's efforts or organizing, but instead pursue your own efforts anyway that works for you and like minded Occupiers. Isn't that what OSEC is doing?

                  And I don't a give a rats rosy ass about your employment situation or travel arrangements. But I'll concede you've got more skin in the game than I do, good for you and thanks.  I've only sent some contributions for winter supplies and stood across the street from Occupy LA as they were setting up tents, wondering when the cops would wreck it all. I do hope you're not in any public contact group though, your propensity for calling other people idiots grates a bit.


                  •  I didn't criticize anyone's organizing (0+ / 0-)

                    I've encouraged people to do whatever they think is important, in fact, what I saw was you telling me what I should be doing and criticizing people who aren't working on legislation.

                    There revolution will not be televised. But it will be blogged, a lot. Probably more so than is necessary.

                    by AoT on Mon Feb 20, 2012 at 07:49:07 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

      •  Go for it. Seriously. Nobody's stopping you. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        lunachickie, AoT

        I'm sure there are Occupations that would love to have someone so keenly interested in the art of legislation. There aren't many people with that expertise. Probably why it isn't happening.

        •  Occupy SEC just got the ball rolling. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          I have helped write and lobbied for a forest workers apprenticeship program which was implemented. And I've worked on logging regulations that were shit canned. But writing financial law to reign in the banksters is only something I can cheerlead for.

          But it is another exciting Occupy development isn't it?  

  •  No. (21+ / 0-)

    And there's no "dirty little secret", either.   Please take this obvious op-ed talking point memo back to whatever corporate mouthpiece wants it spread.

    It is time to #Occupy Media.

    by lunachickie on Sun Feb 19, 2012 at 11:10:05 AM PST

  •  Did you write this months ago? (8+ / 0-)

    This is literally the exact same thing that way too many people were saying at the very beginning, and have whined about since then.

    It's like you grabbed all the talking points from the last few months and wrote the least informative, least useful article ever.

    There revolution will not be televised. But it will be blogged, a lot. Probably more so than is necessary.

    by AoT on Sun Feb 19, 2012 at 12:01:55 PM PST

  •  I think you still don't "get it" (4+ / 0-)
    get a set of principles, then goals, then action plans to accomplish the goals, passed through our General Assemblies
    As far as I'm concerned Occupy's main mission was, and should continue to be, drawing attention to the econo-socio-political disparities in our country (and around the world).  If you have a burning need for principles, goals and action plans there is nothing to prevent you starting a group to work on that. Occupy has raised awareness, so it would be a shame for you to waste the opportunity by sitting around bitching about it.

    from a bright young conservative: “I’m watching my first GOP debate…and WE SOUND LIKE CRAZY PEOPLE!!!!”

    by Catte Nappe on Sun Feb 19, 2012 at 12:49:42 PM PST

  •  Obviously the diarist has not (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    pale cold, blueoasis, nicolemm

    been personally involved in any of the Occupations or even talked to those within the movement.  

    "Corporations have no consciences, no beliefs, no feelings, no thoughts, no desires. Corporations help facilitate and structure the activities of human beings, to be sure, and their ‘personhood’ often serves as a useful legal fiction.”-Justice Stevens

    by gulfgal98 on Sun Feb 19, 2012 at 12:54:21 PM PST

  •  Yes. My Occupation's downfall... (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    rcnewton, ItsaMathJoke, AoT, erush1345

    I agree wholeheartedly. The Occupation in my own town has just destroyed itself through these exact processes. I can break it down into a few basic problems.

    1. Disruptive individuals with mental illness. There was one person in particular who was notorious locally for joining groups and then disrupting them, and when his cries for attention went unheeded (and justifiably so) then he tried to sabotage the group and then quit and denounced the group publicly. And he repeated this pattern with our Occupation. We knew he would be a disrupter, we did our best to listen and accommodate his outrageous demands, but eventually it came to the inevitable conclusion we all knew was coming. He actually wrote a letter to the City Council, denouncing the group as infiltrated by secret agents, a paranoid fantasy that we hope was so obviously insane that it was ignored.
    Additionally, this person was part of the homeless faction that disrupted the Occupation camp as a whole. He was not currently homeless, but had been homeless before, and was well known to the homeless people that took over our Occupation site. He deliberately agitated the homeless campers and reactivated personal feuds against other homeless people that existed years before they Occupation ever started. This started fights that basically drove away every single non-homeless person from the camp. People fled the site, justifiably worried about their safety, especially after dark. Drug use and drunkenness was rife, nobody wanted to be around that, and we could do nothing about it. But this one person enjoyed playing two homeless factions against each other, and starting fights. Apparently he enjoyed watching them fight each other. What an asshole.

    2. Professional agitators. There were several liberal and anarchist groups that tried to co-opt the Occupation by making their pet causes into the Occupation's pet causes. They came in with the same tired old tactics they'd been unsuccessfully using for years, and the same old issues they've been fighting since the Sixties. It is not a coincidence that those tactics primarily generate attention from the media to the few individuals from those groups. These people wanted to use the Occupation to enhance their own political power within their groups and within the community. They did not care for the Occupation causes, except when those causes could be bent to their own. They viewed the Occupation as an opportunity for more media exposure. In one neighboring Occupation, a member of one particular Socialist movement dominated almost every meeting, came in with pre-designed protest actions and tactics, he was seen in almost every media report, and cited by name, not just as an OWS member, but also under the specific name of his own Socialist group.

    3. Leaders. Several people appointed themselves as leaders. Nothing could get done without them. They deliberately concentrated power in their own hands, most notably one person controls the website and nobody else can touch it. Our point of public contact is solely the product of a single person, not the GA. And it hasn't been updated in over a month. He keeps saying he has a full time job and doesn't have enough time to update the site, so people offer to help and he won't let them. This person and his wife seem to believe they are the leaders of this Occupation, and have done outrageous things in GAs to stifle dissenting voices and block debate that doesn't go their way. They often act as a facilitator at GAs and will drive discussion away from people they dislike and towards the people who support their "leadership."

    So the Occupation GA dwindled down to only those people who were either promoting this sort of bullshit, or the sort of people with thick skins who could put up with this sort of bullshit. Our GA that was at one time 200 people, now is only 10 people. With a 90% consensus required, any single person can block a proposal without having to use the Block. But worse, any one person who thinks they are a leader can bully the group into accepting a proposal that only a minority faction can support.

    I've pretty much written off our local Occupation and I'm not going to attend GAs anymore. I've been in this since Day 1, I have tried to help other people get involved so all voices can be represented, only to find the organization dominated by a few people. In fact, in our first week, the GA voted for new GA rules that were intended to prevent individuals from dominating the discussions. Instead, it did exactly the opposite, it allowed any person who created a proposal to filibuster until the opposition was worn down. The GA could not progress beyond that proposal, or end discussion, as long as the proposer wanted to dominate the discussion. Everything ground to a halt.

    So.. what can be done? Not a whole hell of a lot. The Occupations have dwindled down to the point where only the most fanatical people remain, or the people who have the most to gain from exploiting the movement. The only hope is for a massive influx of people to overwhelm the "leaders" and professional agitators.

    At this point, my town's Occupation is essentially dead. It was just denied a renewal of a permit to occupy the city park. It appealed and won a permit to occupy the park when the movement began in October. But now the "leaders" asserted it was too much a "drain on their resources" to fight to keep an occupation in the park. But what the hell were those resources FOR? They essentially destroyed their public image and public support. They might not have won a renewal of the permit, but they could have gone down fighting. Instead, they gave up. So now the final headline is not "City Kicks Occupation Out of Park," it is "Occupation Gives Up and Goes Away." All they had to do was make even a token resistance, and they could have retained the moral high ground. But they couldn't even agree to do that.

    •  Sorry to hear that (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      Problems #1 and #2 would have been more readily overcome were it not for your problem #3. Perhaps they will fizzle out from their own inertia and exclusivity, and a new more dynamic attempt can be made by others in a few months (when the weather is more conducive anyway)?

      from a bright young conservative: “I’m watching my first GOP debate…and WE SOUND LIKE CRAZY PEOPLE!!!!”

      by Catte Nappe on Sun Feb 19, 2012 at 02:16:38 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  "Leaders" (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        I was kind of hoping the "leaders" would fizzle out but it seems like they've worn down everyone else until there is nobody left. They wore me down and I left.
        You're not a leader if there's nobody left to follow you. So perhaps the solution will eventually come, but too late.
        Unfortunately, I am sure they will be back, if there is a resurgence in the spring. They won't be able to resist the urge to use the Occupation again. They live for this sort of opportunity.

        •  One response (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          nicolemm, AoT, Catte Nappe

          In these situations is what Graeber and his people apparently did . . . have a cooperative group pack their bags and move across the street to found a second GA where rules are instituted to control the previous problems.  Another, since there are now so many Occupations, is for individuals to go join a more well-run group.  For instance, I know of no occupation in my small town.  But the town is within commuting distance of three cities, each of which has an Occupy group.  I communicate mainly with the one where an old friend has become an active member, but if I found it intolerable, I could switch by driving ten minutes longer.  Or, given that I already work full-time and spend ten hours a week commuting, I can stay home but stay active on the internet, assist with communications and information, send physical/financial contributions and defend Occupy in  mainstream forums while I prepare to retire to an ecologically sustainable homestead.

    •  Seems like the diarist is saying the original GA.. (0+ / 0-)

      was meant to respond to #3.

  •  We Just Had A 3 Day Social Forum In Olympia.... (7+ / 0-)

    We had 50 workshops attended by Occupiers from New York, Maryland, Tucson & all parts of California, Oregon & Washington state.  We even had an Occupier from Genoa, Italy.  We expected 125 to sign up for the 3 day event, more than twice that number came.  And.....everyone stayed for the 3rd day of workshops, networking & movement building.

    People booked seats on the "OccupyExpress" & got a shout out from the conductor.  

    Trust me.......Occupy is not going away.  It was an exhilarating 3 days.  And tomorrow......we have a rally in Sylvester Park & a march on the Capitol for President's Day.

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site