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U.S. Senator Ron Johnson (R-WI), congressman Paul Ryan and Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney attend a pancake breakfast in Wauwatosa, Wisconsin, April 1, 2012. Romney, just two days before the Wisconsin primary on April 3, continues to spend h
It's all fun and games until somebody loses their Medicare.
Mitt Romney can't send Paul Ryan to Florida because of his radical Medicare plan, but when Democrats have a chance to remind voters about the plan, Romney won't be able to use Ryan anywhere.

Here are a few blasts from the polling past, when the Ryan plan to end Medicare was in the news.

CNN, June 2011:

"Half of those we questioned say that the country would be worse off under the GOP Medicare proposals and 56 percent think that GOP plan would be bad for the elderly," says CNN Polling Director Keating Holland. "Opposition is highest among senior citizens, at 74 percent, suggesting that seniors are most worried about changes to Medicare even if those changes are presented as ones that would not affect existing Medicare recipients."

"A majority of all demographic groups don't favor the GOP Medicare proposals," Holland adds. "That includes conservatives—54 percent of them don't like the plan. As a result, rank-and-file Republicans are split right down the middle, with 48 percent favoring the GOP plan and 50 percent opposed."

Here's Pew, June 2011:
Those ages 50 and older oppose this proposal, which is part of Rep. Paul Ryan's deficit reduction plan, by a 51%-to-29% margin. And this opposition is intense: 42% strongly oppose this kind of change, while only 19% strongly favor it. The same is true among people who say they have heard a lot about this proposal—fully 56% are opposed while 33% are in favor, and strong opposition among this group outweighs strong support by two-to-one (50% vs. 25%).
This makes one thing very clear: The more people hear about what is now the Ryan-Romney plan, the more they hate it, no matter what their age.

And here's CBS/NYT, April 2011:

According to the new poll, 61 percent of Americans think Medicare is currently worth the costs. As many as 78 percent of Democrats and 57 percent of Independents say it is worth it, but just 45 percent of Republicans agree. Forty-four percent of Republicans say it's not worth it. Among Tea Party supporters, 41 percent say the cost is worth it, while 46 percent say it's not. [...]

Americans are mixed on the idea of trying to reduce the deficit by changing Medicare to allow seniors to purchase private health insurance—47 percent approve of the idea, while 41 percent disapprove. Among seniors, 55 percent oppose the idea, while most young people, who are years away from using Medicare, back it (53 percent).

How about Gallup, April 2011:
Americans' biggest concern, at 71%, is that the Democrats' plan will not go far enough to fix the nation's budget problems. However, nearly as many Americans [66 percent] worry that the Republicans' plan will go too far in cutting Medicare, Social Security, and programs for the poor, or in protecting the rich.
Gallup polling on Dem/GOP budget plans showing 2/3rds of voters concerned about GOP cuts to Medicare, Social Security, social programs.
And, because it's in the news now, what about Florida? The bad news for Ryan-Romney is that they're not just risking losing seniors there. Here's PPP from July 2011:
If there is anywhere Paul Ryan’s Medicare proposal should be met with death stares, it is in Florida’s retirement communities.  Indeed, 40% of the entire state opposes his plan, with only 24% supporting it. 37% of the seniormost voters are against it, but the largest age bloc in opposition is the youngest. 50% of those 18 to 29 years old oppose, and only 15% support it.
But the really key thing to remember is this focus group story sort of buried in a longer report on Super PACs.
The public did not view Romney as an extremist. For example, when Priorities informed a focus group that Romney supported the Ryan budget plan—and thus championed “ending Medicare as we know it” — while also advocating tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans, the respondents simply refused to believe any politician would do such a thing.
This politician just did that very thing. Romney doesn't just support the Ryan budget, he's running on it now, however much he might try to fudge that truth.

Originally posted to Joan McCarter on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 10:27 AM PDT.

Also republished by Ryan Inc and Daily Kos.

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Comment Preferences

  •  fingers crossed. (12+ / 0-)

    It appears that the Ryan nomination is a real gift to the Obama/Biden campaign. But it's impossible to underestimate the ability of people to vote against their own interests...

    'Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.' -John Steinbeck

    by Eddie L on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 10:31:00 AM PDT

  •  Kinda freaks me out how they go around saying (13+ / 0-)

    that day is night and vice versa.  

    If they want a voucher-based system for Medicare, fine, get up and argue for it.  But to turn around and say Obama's attacking this program they so much love and support?  That level of deception is freaky.  If you have an ideology of competition, COMPETE already.   Get out of the marketplace of lies and contend in the marketplace of ideas.

    "The extinction of the human race will come from its inability to EMOTIONALLY comprehend the exponential function." -- Edward Teller

    by lgmcp on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 10:34:45 AM PDT

  •  What I don't understand... (9+ / 0-)

    If the "premium support" plan for Medicare is so great, then why not adopt it right away?  Why exempt people over age 55 and allow them to continue with Medicare as it is?  

    Of course, it's a shallow attempt to keep senior citizens from abandoning the GOP ticket in droves.  But, someone needs to ask the boomers and the "greatest generation": do you really want your children to have to shop for health insurance when they're 65?  What if they can't afford it?  Would you really deny to your children what you yourselves have relied upon for your own health -- relied upon for your very own lives?

    "This is not class warfare. It's math." - Barack Obama 9/19/11

    by DaveV on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 10:37:05 AM PDT

    •  I'm over 65 (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      greenbird, bdop4, stevej

      My answer is NO.  I suspect you might be surprised that many, if not the majority, of my age group who would give you the same answer.  

      One of the biggest mistakes I see being made about this issue is the assumption that ALL those over the age of 55 or 65 would be so stupid, so selfish, and so mean as to want to pull the safety net up behind them, and deprive those younger than 55 of a program from which we have benefitted.  

      It's not true and the more we spread that meme, the more confused and confusing the issue becomes.  Even the elderly are starting to believe it, even though they know they don't feel that way.

      "It's called the American dream because you have to be asleep to believe it." ~ George Carlin

      by vigilant meerkat on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 07:21:38 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  That 60 Minutes son/daddy R/R image (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    annieli, The Hamlet, triplepoint, bythesea

    must be a Log Cabin pinup by now.

    But that overly cloned appearance will also be part of the undoing of the GOP. Two nearly identical white guys with hair product and nice chins. The lack of diversity won't help.

    cheerleaders need not apply.

    by kravitz on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 10:38:19 AM PDT

  •  Add my husband to the list of people (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JeffW, drmah, bythesea

    who don't believe they'll really cut it. But he's voting democrat anyway.

  •  I like how Obama wove in an attack on (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bythesea, thomsirveaux

    the Romney Ryan medicare plan into his stump speech, but we need ads to really drive the message home, especially when Romney is going around lying about Obama's record.

    Alternative rock with something to say: http://www.myspace.com/globalshakedown

    by khyber900 on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 10:43:19 AM PDT

    •  Yes, exactly (0+ / 0-)

      People here keep writing what JoanMcC just wrote:

      When Priorities informed a focus group that Romney supported the Ryan budget plan ...  the respondents simply refused to believe any politician would do such a thing.

      This politician just did that very thing.

      Here's the problem, though. People don't believe Romney would support such a plan, but they also don't believe Ryan would have such a plan. And, unhelpfully (if inevitably) the Republicans are trying to up-is-down the true nature of Ryan's plan so that people will just continue to be indifferent.

      It is up to us to not let them get away with it.

  •  Nobody's plan is worth a damn until it passes (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Americantrueandblue

    both houses of Congress and gets signed by the President.  It would be nice if we got any plan from anybody that could do that and guarantee that SS will still be there to collect when we all retire.  

    I could give a shit about proposed plans.   What is Congress doing if no one from either party is offering a plan that will work and can pass?  Wasting our time and putting people's retirements in jeopardy.    That's the real story.

    The rest of this is just a distraction from the real story.   Sickening.  

    "Help me to be, to think, to act what is right because it is right; make me truthful, honest, and honorable in all things; make me intellectually honest for the sake of right and honor and without thought of reward to me." [Robert E. Lee]

    by SpamNunn on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 10:45:15 AM PDT

    •  bullshit. Ryan's "proposed plan" was only (17+ / 0-)

      stopped from being the law of the land by  DEMOCRATIC senate and a DEMOCRATIC president who would have vetoed it.

      this is a fucking election.

      you wanna spout off about plans being meaningless go do it somewhere else.

      If Romney wins and we fail to take back the house and lose the senate (all a possibility) this PROPOSAL is surely not meaningless.

      The damned thing means something because it shows what they would do, even if they can't right then. If you want to be one of those americans "who don;t believe any politician could do such a thing" go right ahead. I am going to take them at face value. I have NO REASON not to.

      For the record, I am not a member of Courtesy Kos. Just so you know. Don't be stupid. It's election season. My patience is short.

      by mdmslle on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 10:53:50 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I'll spout wherever and whenever I want to. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        greenbird

        This can has been kicked down the road since the New Deal Era.  Everyone knew, even then, that the day would come when changes in life expectancies would make it necessary to make some hard adjustments.   Read Arthur Schlesinger, Jr's three volume epic, The Coming of the New Deal.

        The problem is that every year is Election Year, and no one has the sac to do what's right - even by phasing it in over time.  I'd be happy to have the taxable income cap raised and pay more so that the fund would be more solvent for my kids.  I'd be happy to wait an extra year or two to collect my SS, and I might even agree to take less if a means test was imposed.   But to do nothing?  That's unconscionable.  

        Simpson/Bowles and Ryan made proposals.   I don't see anyone else even doing that much.  Yeah, those proposals suck, and they would hurt if implemented, but the discussion can't continue.  Action must be taken, on this, on Medicare and the deficit.  You can't continue to promise people free shit to win elections, or an eternal  font of earned benefits, if you don't have to the means to continue to deliver it when people who are relying on you to deliver come asking for it.  That's just wrong.  Ask the Greeks.

        [spouts and leaves]

        "Help me to be, to think, to act what is right because it is right; make me truthful, honest, and honorable in all things; make me intellectually honest for the sake of right and honor and without thought of reward to me." [Robert E. Lee]

        by SpamNunn on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 11:09:29 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  ' I'd be happy to have the taxable cap raised ...' (6+ / 0-)

          SpamNunn, one party will NEVER EVER EVER do this.

          Can you guess which one?

          •  Hard to tell. When the Simpson/Bowles Committee (0+ / 0-)

            voted, it was 6-4 Dems and 5-3 Rep., with Ryan voting no.   I think there is bi-partisan support for some solution, but still too much Club for Growth resistance to any tax increases to pass that proposal right now.  

            When we are compelled to admit that we must spend less and tax everyone more in order to get our fiscal house in order, then we will make some progress.  

            For now, Democrats refuse to admit that some social programs must be trimmed, in addition to defense spending, in order to balance the budget - and Republicans refuse to raise taxes, in any respect, in order to balance the budget.  

            Those positions are both unreasonable and untenable.  

            "Help me to be, to think, to act what is right because it is right; make me truthful, honest, and honorable in all things; make me intellectually honest for the sake of right and honor and without thought of reward to me." [Robert E. Lee]

            by SpamNunn on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 12:50:29 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Republicans are perfectly willing to raise taxes.. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              bythesea

              ...just not on the rich.  Romney and Ryan, along with the rest of the GOP, have made clear they want to "expand the tax base" to pay for tax cuts for billionaires.  

              They have been deliberately obfuscatory not to mention how exactly they are going to do that, but likely targets include getting rid certain of middle class tax deductions like the mortgage interest deduction and tax exemption for health insurance.

              So one, Republicans do not refuse to raise taxes and the Dems should not allow them to have that point.  In fact, they are the opposite when it comes to the middle class and poor, in the worst way.  

              And two, social programs do not need to be trimmed because social programs did not cause this national debt.  This national debt was caused by two wars, massive bank bailouts, Bush tax cuts, and most significantly, a tanking economy which reduced tax revenues.

        •  The SS/Medicare Solution (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          mmacdDE

          SS/Medicare have very long term problems.  If left unchanged taxes collected will not fund benefits owed in the 2030's and beyond.  But currently we don't have that problem.  And we can't really fix the future.  In the future they will have to raise taxes and/or cut benefits, but why would doing that today make any real difference?  
          Medicare has always had insolvency looming since the 1970's.  Every couple of years Congress tweaks it to keep it going, that will continue to happen.  SS is actually basically solvent.  Even with no change, taxes collected in the 2030's would fund higher real benefits than people receive right now, it just won't fund benefits at the even higher rates they are supposed to be.  Well then, raise taxes or accepts SS benefits that are only somewhat higher in real terms than currently paid out.  But that is a choice for the future.
          The real problem is how wasteful our healthcare system is compared to other industrial nations.  We spend twice as much per capita as most other countries, if we changed to a single payer system and got rid of fee for service medicine and allowed Medicare to negotiate drug prices, Medicare works indefinitely.

      •  I second this... (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        OldDragon, JeffW

        ...  The thought:

        I could give a shit about proposed plans.   What is Congress doing if no one from either party is offering a plan that will work and can pass?  Wasting our time and putting people's retirements in jeopardy.    That's the real story.
        Is totally ignoring the reality of the day.  The Democrats are continually proposing plans and many good ones have passed the Senate (think the jobs bill among others), while the republicans are voting on 1001 ways to end abortions.  

        The mess we're in is not because there aren't good ideas being proposed.  We're in this mess because one party has decided to not negotiate and ignore the needs of our country in favor of the goals of their party.

        So yes, Spam can spout, but he shouldn't ignore what we've seen for the past 3.75 years.  And if the republicans goals are achieved, my guess is that Mr. Nunn will recognize that he didn't see the forest for the trees.

        I haven't been here long enough to be considered a Kossack, does that mean that I'm just a sack?

        by Hey338Too on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 11:34:02 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  I care (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      bythesea

      ... because this nonsense from Ryan becomes more and more "accepted" the more it is out there.  Gutting Medicare with vouchers has now gone from thinktanks to individual Congressmen to House Budget Chair to the VP nominee.  And pundits are calling it bold and courageous as opposed to a scheme to privatize Medicare and ensure profits for insurers.

      The sad thing is that judicious cuts and some progressive taxation could save these programs without hurting the economy.

      "Unseen, in the background, Fate was quietly slipping the lead into the boxing glove." P.G. Wodehouse

      by gsbadj on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 06:58:56 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Well then, let's make sure they hear lots and lots (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Scott Wooledge, JeffW, drmah

    about it. This was already OFA's plan for the fall and Romney played right into their hands by picking Ryan.

    You can see how he's already trying to create some distance even after embracing it over and over and then picking the freaking author as his VP.  Imagine the walkback effort if Ryan wasn't on the ticket.

  •  unholy trinity: the Mitt, son Ryan, & the Kochs (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    GOPGO2H3LL, drmah

    playing the Holy Spirit

    Präsidentenelf-maßschach"Nous sommes un groupuscule" (-9.50; -7.03) "Ensanguining the skies...Falls the remorseful day".政治委员, 政委‽ Warning - some snark above ‽

    by annieli on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 11:24:09 AM PDT

  •  Arizona (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    live1, Scott Wooledge, JeffW, drmah

    People have been wondering whether Arizona might go into play.  If you have ever canvassed the Phoenix suburbs like Sun City, you know there is a whole elderly culture of people who live in developments built around a golf course, with two golf carts in every car port.

    These people are generally white and old and many of them are conservative but not crazy racist.

    The Ryan pick puts this demographic into play.

    This aggression will not stand, man.

    by kaleidescope on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 11:37:54 AM PDT

  •  It's a weird pick... (5+ / 0-)

    other than once again appeasing the far right wing, who's going to vote against President Obama this November even if he's running against the devil himself, can anyone tell me what use Ryan is to the ticket?  The guy has been a walking target by democrats for 2 years and now there are Romney/Ryan bumper stickers being printed up.  I truly believe this is the problem with the right wingers only living inside the huge Faux News/Rush/Drudge/Rasmussen/WSJ bubble that they have created.  To them, Ryan is the golden boy.  To the other 75% of the country who don't live inside that bubble, he's a nightmare (if not already, he will be in about 30 days).  Why on earth would Mitt make sure a risky move?  I'm not sure it's even risky.  It's just plain dumb.  The Ryan budget is as toxic a document as you will ever see.  

    •  Sam Seder (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      JeffW, drmah, PlinytheWelder

      on Spitzer's show said that Romney is burnishing his legacy so that when the Rs turn on him for losing he can say, "But, I did what you guys wanted. Right? You can't blame me!" lol

      (Hope Sam's right)

      "The scientific nature of the ordinary man is to go on out and do the best you can." John Prine

      by high uintas on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 06:50:44 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I can just see the 'kill grandma' ads this Oct (4+ / 0-)

    --Enlighten the people, generally, and tyranny and oppressions of body and mind will vanish like spirits at the dawn of day. - Thomas Jefferson--

    by idbecrazyif on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 12:46:09 PM PDT

  •  (Not BREAKING): Presidential Candidate (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Scott Wooledge, Bear

    touches third rail.  A whole generation of Republican lawmakers gets burned.

    Ultimately, the only thing that matters with respect to preserving choice is who will be nominating the next Supreme Court Justices.

    by Its the Supreme Court Stupid on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 02:02:03 PM PDT

  •  The arc has crested today. It is straight (8+ / 0-)

    downhill from today.  Ryan will bring out the ugly pitchfork crowd--you can see it brewing already--but they will not carry the election.

    Ryan already drawing hecklers.  It won't get better.

    If the plutocrats begin the program, we will end it. -- Eugene Debs.

    by livjack on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 03:15:04 PM PDT

  •  A picture is worth a thousand words. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    live1, Bear

    Something strange is going on...developing....

    •  that picture does nothing but give me the creeps (0+ / 0-)

      sorry if that sounds like a 12 yr olds comment. it does. whats witht the weird hand on the shoulder and all the phoney smiles?

      "It's never too late to be who you might have been." -George Eliot

      by live1 on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 06:36:18 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I fucking hate John McCain, but Romney/Ryan (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    live1, Scott Wooledge, PlinytheWelder

    actually make me wish he was the GOP candidate again they turn me off that much.

    Once in a while you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right. I'm riding in the Tour de Cure. You can donate here.

    by darthstar on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 06:34:49 PM PDT

  •  I'm 58 right now. (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JML9999, Scott Wooledge, JeffW, drmah

    According to the Ryan plan I will be able to have Medicare unchanged but am I suppose to be so stupid that I can't foresee that at some point in time, years from now when the next generation retiring only gets vouchers for healthcare that their will be no political repercussions for entirely doing away with a program I may badly need.

    ",,, the Political whorehouse that is Fox News." Keith Olbermann

    by irate on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 06:36:04 PM PDT

  •  I begin to wonder... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    live1, Scott Wooledge, thomsirveaux

    ...and I'm not a conspiracy theory sort by far.  Not at all.

    But honestly.  What are the chances that Mittens actually gets the nod at the convention at this point?

    I know they're close to 100%, but it's no longer 100%.  With poor decisions piling on top of gaffes on top of disastrous trips, there's got to be some buyer's remorse already.

    (-6.25, -6.77) Moderate left, moderate libertarian

    by Lonely Liberal in PA on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 06:36:10 PM PDT

  •  Definition of an unforced error (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JML9999, JeffW, stevej

    putting Ryan in the national spotlight.

    It wasn't an unforeseen development at all. Absolutely everyone who handicapped the VP short list said, "he probably won't pick Ryan, that budget is a big political handicap."

    Though I hoped for Ryan, I personally didn't imagine they'd be that dumb.

    You're not being "oppressed" when another group gains rights you've always enjoyed.

    by Scott Wooledge on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 06:38:57 PM PDT

    •  I have a hunch (0+ / 0-)

      that the gamble has two parts:

      To get the knuckledraggers - sorry base - on board

      For their portion of the media (then the rest) to work on mainstreaming Ryan for the middle ground between now and the election.

      I still think that it is a strategy that could work due to this countries awful critical analysis challenged media.

      This is why we need to go in hard and fast against Ryan - before the window shifts.

  •  Civics 101 No matter how hard Romney tries to say (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    a2nite, drmah

    I have my own Plan(but I won't tell you what it is).

    The simple reality is congress usually dumps a president's plan and devises it's own budget and we know what the GOP will do were they in the majority. So we're back to Romney and enough working fingers.....

    The 1st Amendment gives you the right to say stupid things, the 1st Amendment doesn't guarantee a paycheck to say stupid things.

    by JML9999 on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 06:40:39 PM PDT

  •  there's a lot more here this year (0+ / 0-)

    than there's been before. share it!

    it's all good.
    and we don't have time for any gaps.

    Addington's Perpwalk: TRAILHEAD of Accountability for Bush-2 Crimes.
    * Join: OBAMA'S TRUTH TEAM *

    by greenbird on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 06:43:13 PM PDT

  •  CBS/NYT, April 2011: pollster confused (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    drmah

    "Americans are mixed on the idea of trying to reduce the deficit by changing Medicare to allow seniors to purchase private health insurance"

    The question is based on a false claim of fact.  Seniors are currently allowed to purchase private health insurance (ever heard of Medicare Advantage CBS/NYT pollster ???).  The ACA changed this only by inserting the requirement that such purchases not increase the deficit any more as they have for years now.  

    The idea that it is a reform to allow such purchases is ignorant.  The idea that this might reduce the deficit isn't quite that ignorant, since it only implies ignorance of the effect of Medicare Advantage on the deficit and not ignorance of its existence.  

  •  Romney waffles again (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JeffW

    This isn't Romney the Bold, it's Romney the WImp...giving in to Ryan and the pressure of the Teabaggers. Flat out stupid from the political standpoint. Maybe their internal polls show that (given Holder doesn't fold on the voter rights issues) the election is hopeless so getting their positions out there is more important than winning this time around.

  •  Pollees Refused to Believe Ryan Plan Is What it Is (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    drmah

    This was brought up last week by the Rude Pundit on a prog talk show where Mike Papantonio was hosting.

    This is a very important finding about the difficulty Dems will face in messaging on this point. Compounding it is the fact that what Repubs beat Dems so badly with in 2010 with senior voters was the fact that Obamacare stole from Medicare.

    So Dems and Obama are faced with the fact that 1) voters especially seniors don't believe the Ryan plan is real when it's shown to them and 2) they already believe it's Dems who have and will hurt Medicare and raised health costs.

    This is what you get when refuse to educate voters on a signature game-changing program you pass. The choice of Ryan may be the last nail in Romney's coffin -- but based on the most recent hard results, the Republicans are playing from a position of historic win.

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 06:46:36 PM PDT

  •  This is very important. Obviously. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    live1, JeffW, cheerio2

    But at the same time, let's not let them completely shift public attention away from the campaign-ending secret Mitt is hiding in his tax returns.

    ------
    Ideology is when you know the answers before you know the questions.
    It is what grows into empty spaces where intelligence has died.

    by Alden on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 06:48:39 PM PDT

  •  Paul Ryan's Favorite Christmas Song? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JeffW

    Grandma Got Run Over By A Reindeer

    There is no hell on earth appropriate enough for those who would promote the killing of another person, in the name of a god.

    by HarryParatestis on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 06:52:32 PM PDT

  •  Romney Hood and Friar Ryan? n/t (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JeffW

    Ignorance is Curable.

    by skids on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 06:53:00 PM PDT

  •  It is odd, (0+ / 0-)

    ~ their choosing a ten-ton anchor like Ryan.

    It makes you wonder if they're going to try and pull a Breinbart (or whatever that late idiot's name was); only to find, like that video that was released of Obama introducing a professor at Harvard, that no one gave a damn.

    "Guns don't kill people. People in states without gun-purchase background checks & waiting periods kill people." --John Fugelsang

    by Artryst on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 07:00:33 PM PDT

  •  Another Aspect of the Ryan Pick (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    drmah, skids

    An important measure of a Presidential candidate can come from the significant decisions he/she makes in that role.  President Obama has of course made a number of significant decisions in his role as President/2012 Candidate that voters can judge him by.

    Now we have Mitt Romney's first significant decision as a Presidential Candidate, the selection of his Vice President.

    The selection of Ryan, which is being viewed by an increasing number of voters, including some less crazy Republicans, as the wrong choice, reflects on Romney's ability to weigh a number of factors and make an important decision.  And Romney's poor VP decision will be seen in the days to come as a reflection on Romney's poor decision making ability.

    "Some men see things as they are and ask, 'Why?' I dream of things that never were and ask, 'Why not?"

    by Doctor Who on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 07:03:22 PM PDT

    •  Well, (0+ / 0-)

      you could say it makes him zero-for-three:

      One, his disastrous foreign trip (-up);
      Two, his refusing to release his taxes;
      Three, his going Ryan --er, Galt.

      "Guns don't kill people. People in states without gun-purchase background checks & waiting periods kill people." --John Fugelsang

      by Artryst on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 07:08:30 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Well he could just deny he ever selected Ryan. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      drmah

      I mean, if he can etch-a-sketch every position, what's to stop him from pretending he never selected Ryan as a VP, and start telling everyone that he has picked the VP candidate they would like to hear.

      So Mitt still has options.

      Ignorance is Curable.

      by skids on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 07:18:35 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  "Hi, I'm Paul Ryan. I'm from Wisconsin, I love (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    drmah

    brats, I love the Packers, and I'd love to eat your brains..."

  •  The "Original" Neoconservative Organization (0+ / 0-)

    was called "the Coalition for a Democratic Majority", which as they became "bipartisan" took over the shell of the old Committee on the Present Danger as its new home.

    Ever get the feeling you've been cheated?

    by ActivistGuy on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 07:29:34 PM PDT

  •  Affordable Care. a bad thing: (0+ / 0-)

    when what you're working for is "get your own care."
    "If you can."

    the fight will be hard. and, of course, there will continue to be those who choose to vote against their own best interests.

    which is the only way i've been able to interpret the weird response of "style" -- liking it or not liking it: something makes those voters comfortable or uncomfortable about the candidates, so they choose the one they're most comfortable with: the "drink a beer with" choice.

    if it wasn't how you chose your dentist, why should it be how you chose your senator? your state representatives? your president?

    Addington's Perpwalk: TRAILHEAD of Accountability for Bush-2 Crimes.
    * Join: OBAMA'S TRUTH TEAM *

    by greenbird on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 07:32:10 PM PDT

  •  quick question, that photo up top.. the man to (0+ / 0-)

    Ryan's left, that's not Julian Assange is it?

    just wondering... no reason for them to be together

    Socialist Fuckstick No. 308273

    by culturejammer on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 07:39:23 PM PDT

  •  can we PLEASE (0+ / 0-)

    find a new picture to use of Ryan?

    Russ Feingold is kind of a hero of mine, and seeing Ron Johnson smiling there every time you post this gets my blood boiling

    •  But (0+ / 0-)

      it's so bro-mantic. Especially for these two homophobes.

      "Guns don't kill people. People in states without gun-purchase background checks & waiting periods kill people." --John Fugelsang

      by Artryst on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 08:20:43 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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