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Sorry for the (possibly) hysterical headline.  Maybe I'm feeling a little paranoid because of Willard's smirking cockiness today.  He seems pretty sure about winning.

If this report is true, it might explain a lot of that.  Really?  The Ohio Secretary of State's office installed a secret "software patch" to the voting tabulation equipment?  

< blinking repeatedly in a state of stunned realization that shit is totally effed up >

So for all we know, they could be re-jiggering the vote-theft "algorithm" to match the new poll numbers because the code for this "patch" hasn't been reviewed by anyone.

Of course, I'm not familiar with the source and haven't seen this story reported elsewhere so I am viewing it with a skeptical eye, but the level of detail suggests verity.

The letter to Ohio Secretary of State personnel Matt Masterson, Danielle Sellars, Myra Hawkins, Betsy Schuster, and Ohio's Director of Elections Matthew Damschroder, clarified the dubious justification for not complying with the legal requirements for the examination of all election related equipment.
Those names weren't picked out of a hat.

In another article, the Free Press provides some disturbing details about the voting machine contract between ESS and the the State of Ohio:

On page 19 of the contract, terms require the various county boards of elections to purchase additional software from ES & S if they are not compatible with this new "experimental" statewide tabulation and reporting system.
So if they don't install the uncertified "experimental" software, they have to purchase some other software?  Huh?  Do lawyers really get paid to write such fraudulent crap, and does the fact that it is written by lawyers automatically make it legally binding (or legal)?  

I am no legal scholar, as you can tell, but it seems to me that somebody's pulling a fast one.  If that somebody's (or somebodies') fast one turns out to be trying to steal an election, the only charge that fits is treason, and the death penalty would be too kind a punishment.


Stealing an election should be punishable by:

18%41 votes
6%15 votes
24%54 votes
15%33 votes
33%72 votes
1%3 votes

| 218 votes | Vote | Results

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Comment Preferences

  •  More than likely... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    CharlieHipHop, Delilah, Calamity Jean

    ...Romney will herniate himself...

    Float like a manhole cover, sting like a sash weight! Clean Coal Is A Clinker!

    by JeffW on Sun Nov 04, 2012 at 05:40:19 PM PST

  •  I would count on it (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    vidanto, Wednesday Bizzare

    Between the close electorate and the blitzkrieg of vote suppression, I think Ohio is Romney.

    •  I tend to agree, but... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      bnasley, rubyr

      ... we can't stand idly by.  We need to get to the bottom of this and if it is determined that folks were trying to fuck with our democracy, people need to be punished SEVERELY.

      •  There's nothing to "get to the bottom" of (7+ / 0-)

        What they are doing to try to push the election in their direction is on the surface. People who know what is happening and know that these types of stories are nonsense are fighting back now.

        Take the "Can't(or)" out of Congress. Support E. Wayne Powell in Va-07.

        by anastasia p on Sun Nov 04, 2012 at 06:12:09 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  You are full of it. You keep saying this (0+ / 1-)
          Recommended by:
          Hidden by:

          same stuff all over the place. You don't know anything about it.  

          "Southern nights have you ever felt a southern night?" Allen Toussaint ~~Remember the Gulf of Mexico~~

          by rubyr on Sun Nov 04, 2012 at 06:15:18 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Lies, hacks, voter suppression- all add up (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            CharlieHipHop, Wednesday Bizzare

            to a win for Romney if he can get away with it.

            The stakes are high,very high. they will have a long-lasting effect upon our government.

            We don't need to be at each others throats on how this could go wrong.

            Massive protests should be in order if Romney wins by a small margin. That is usually indicative of a hack. We can't sit by like Kerry did and not fight back. The Green Party folks and people in election integrity feel very strongly about this.

            I've spoken to experts in computer security who feel strongly about a possible hack and they are not garden variety conspiracy nuts. They are very skeptical people by nature.

            I see that Citizens Untied has done a lot of damage in misinforming people but Romney is his own worst enemy with his own campaign. He was not well-liked by people in his own party and many well-known Republicans are beginning to speak out against him. That does count for something.

            Plan for the worst. Expect the best.

            •  OFA has 2000 attorneys as foot soldiers (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Citizenpower, DeadHead

              monitoring the polls in Ohio.

              I fear election fraud as much as you do, but Ohio is not going to go down the way it did in 2004.  

              The Obama campaign is not the Kerry Campaign.  OFA is on to the GOP's tricks.

              Obama's campaign runs better than his administration.  It's a disciplined military machine out there and although I have no doubt that Atty Gen of Ohio would happily skew machine votes for Romney, it would take a hell of a lot for them to actually get away with it.

              Especially with current poll margins in Ohio as wide as they are.

              I expect election fraud will have a more likely effect in, say, Florida and Colorado, where the margin is smaller and all they have to do is disenfranchise ten thousand or so Democratic voters.

              "When a man tells you that he got rich through hard work, ask him: 'Whose?' Don Marquis

              by hopesprings on Sun Nov 04, 2012 at 10:08:14 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

          •  anastasia p probably knows more about (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            erush1345, DeadHead

            Ohio politics and the voting process than anybody on this site. Your comment just shows how ignorant you are.

            If there is no accountability for those who authorized torture, we can no longer say that we are a nation of laws, not men.

            by MikePhoenix on Sun Nov 04, 2012 at 09:20:51 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  Exactly - Full of it, indeed (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            It seems like some people who are commenting in this discussion slept through the entire 2004 Ohio election and recount.

            If that is the case, they might want to review some history:

            None Dare Call it Stolen - Ohio, the election, and America's servile press - By Mark Crispin Miller

            Concerning the decisive contest in Ohio, the evidence is lucidly compiled in a single congressional report, which, for the last half-year, has been available to anyone inclined to read it. It is a veritable arsenal of “smoking guns”—and yet its findings may be less extraordinary than the fact that no one in this country seems to care about them.  Preserving Democracy describes three phases of Republican chicanery: the run-up to the election, the election itself, and the post-election cover-up.


            The first phase of malfeasance entailed, among many other actions, several months of bureaucratic hijinks aimed at disenfranchising Democrats, the most spectacular result of which was “a wide discrepancy between the availability of voting machines in more minority, Democratic and urban areas as compared to more Republican, suburban and exurban areas.”


            The second phase of lawlessness began the Monday before the election, when Blackwell issued two directives restricting media coverage of the election. First, reporters were to be barred from the polls, because their presence contravened Ohio’s law on “loitering” near voting places. Second, media representatives conducting exit polls were to remain 100 feet away from the polls.


            Blackwell did manage to ban reporters from a post-election ballot-counting site in Warren County because—election officials claimed—the FBI had warned of an impending terrorist attack there. The FBI said it issued no such warning, however, and the officials refused to name the agent who alerted them. Moreover, as the Cincinnati Enquirer later reported, email correspondence between election officials and the county’s building services director indicated that lockdown plans—“down to the wording of the signs that would be posted on the locked doors”—had been in the works for at least a week. Beyond suggesting that officials had something to hide, the ban was also, according to the report, a violation of Ohio law and the Fourteenth Amendment.


            The electoral fraud continued past Election Day, but by means far more complex and less apparent than the bullying that marked the day itself. Here the aim was to protect the spoils, which required the prevention of countywide hand recounts by any means necessary.


            On December 13, for instance, Sherole Eaton, deputy director of elections for Hocking County, filed an affidavit stating that the computer that operates the tabulating machine had been “modified” by one Michael Barbian Jr., an employee of Triad GSI, the corporate manufacturer of the county’s voting machinery.


            Ms. Eaton witnessed Mr. Barbian modify the Hocking County computer vote tabulator before the announcement of the Ohio recount. She further witnessed Barbian, upon the announcement that the Hocking County precinct was planned to be the subject of the initial Ohio test recount, make further alterations based on his knowledge of the situation. She also has firsthand knowledge that Barbian advised election officials how to manipulate voting machinery to ensure that [the] preliminary hand recount matched the machine count.

            Some 1,300 Libertarian and Green Party volunteers, led by Green Party recount manager Lynne Serpe, monitored the count throughout Ohio.7 They reported that: In Allen, Clermont, Cuyahoga, Morrow, Hocking, Vinton, Summit, and Medina counties, the precincts for the 3 percent hand recount were preselected, not picked at random, as the law requires. In Fairfield County the 3 percent hand recount yielded a total that diverged from the machine count—but despite protests from observers, officials did not then perform a hand recount of all the ballots, as the law requires. In Washington and Lucas counties, ballots were marked or altered, apparently to ensure that the hand recount would equal the machine count. In Ashland, Portage, and Coshocton counties, ballots were improperly unsealed or stored. Belmont County “hired an independent programmer (‘at great expense’) to reprogram the counting machines so that they would only count votes for President during the recount.” Finally, Democratic and/or Green observers were denied access to absentee, and/or provisional ballots, or were not allowed to monitor the recount process, in Summit, Huron, Putnam, Allen, Holmes, Mahoning, Licking, Stark, Medina, Warren, and Morgan counties. In short, the Ohio vote was never properly recounted, as required by Ohio law.


            In the summer of 2003, Representative Peter King (R., N.Y.) was interviewed by Alexandra Pelosi at a barbecue on the White House lawn for her HBO documentary Diary of a Political Tourist. “It’s already over. The election’s over. We won,” King exulted more than a year before the election. When asked by Pelosi—the daughter of House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi—how he knew that Bush would win, he answered, “It’s all over but the counting. And we’ll take care of the counting.”

            Hopefully, Democrats have learned from the Ohio 2004 debacle and are already acting to prevent a repeat.  But, in any case, throwing around terms like "paranoid conspiracy nonsense" in light of recent Ohio history is being just unbelievably fatuous.

            Preserving Democracy: What Went Wrong in Ohio - Status Report of the House Judiciary Committee Democratic Staff (PDF)

            "But all in all, it's been a fabulous year for Laura and me." - bush summing up his first year in office, 3 months after 9/11, Washington, D.C., Dec. 20, 2001

            by rmx2630 on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 12:40:41 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Ohio DREs have VVPB, it aint 2004 (0+ / 0-)

              FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.

              by Roger Fox on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 08:51:44 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

            •  Mark Crispin Miller? (0+ / 0-)
              "How did the World Trade Center simply disappear on 9/11?"

              Now, if you’re a conspiracy theorist, you will no doubt cling to the official view that that catastrophe was (somehow) pulled off by the 9/11 “mastermind,” Osama bin Laden–er, I mean Khalid Sheikh Muhammad, who at some point some time ago replaced bin Laden as the 9/11 “mastermind.” (Reportedly, Muhammad did confess to having been the “mastermind,” after US forces waterboarded him over 180 times.)

              If, on the other hand, you’re an empiricist, and therefore base your arguments on evidence not speculation–even if that speculation has been certified repeatedly by experts like Glenn Beck–you may want to know somewhat more about how those three buildings came apart like that.

              If so, you should spread the word about this press conference organized by Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth, scheduled for Feb. 19 (this Friday).

              FFS, find a credible source. Miller has elevated selective credulity to an art form. I'd like him to explain to my FDNY brother-in-law -- who worked on the pile for days -- that the Twin Towers simply disappeared. Yeah, that would be a trip.

              The fact is that Bush appears to have gotten more votes in Ohio. Certainly the long lines and registration messes had something to do with that, although I doubt they were decisive.

              (The Conyers Report has some good material, but it doesn't even claim to prove that Ohio was stolen, and it doesn't support this diary in any way.)

              Election protection: there's an app for that! -- and a toll-free hotline: 866-OUR-VOTE
              Better Know Your Voting System with the Verifier!

              by HudsonValleyMark on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 11:11:50 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

  •  It's Just a File Format Translator Evidently. Here (14+ / 0-)

    is the link to an explanation uncovered last night by HudsonValleyMark.

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Sun Nov 04, 2012 at 05:50:55 PM PST

  •  Can we stop it with CT Ohio election diaries? (19+ / 0-)

    Yes We Can.

    You know, I sometimes think if I could see, I'd be kicking a lot of ass. -Stevie Wonder at the Glastonbury Festival, 2010

    by Rich in PA on Sun Nov 04, 2012 at 05:52:14 PM PST

  •  can't the DEMS go to court?? NOW!!! (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    rubyr, rmx2630
  •  GOTV, and while we're at it, do the same elsewhere (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    CharlieHipHop, jenesq, rubyr, anastasia p

    I'm paranoid too but I think any serious discrepancies are going to draw a ton of attention

    best thing we can do is make sure CO, VA, FL, WI, and all the other states give him such a commanding lead that OH doesn't make a difference - that's the dream -

    I'll see ya all on Tuesday


    There are only two kinds of music - the blues and Zip Pa Dee Doo Dah - Townes Van Zandt

    by whiskeytown on Sun Nov 04, 2012 at 05:59:06 PM PST

  •  Well... (7+ / 0-)

    Probably will try to steal it. We KNOW that. It has been done before so they will try. But we can do something about it:

    Ohio voting rights advocates are seeking volunteers for Election Day, November 6.  We need volunteers to answer questions, identify issues confronting voters, and report problems to the Election Protection Hotline at 866-OUR-VOTE.

    You can volunteer for just a few hours or all day! Consider putting in a few hours when the polls first open to ensure that voting gets off to a good start.

    There are two ways to volunteer on Election Day:

       1. As a poll monitor in Cincinnati, Cleveland, Columbus, Dayton, Toledo, Akron or Youngstown.

    Election Protection, a nonpartisan partnership led by the Lawyers Committee for Civil Rights Under Law, is committed to helping all voters exercise their right to vote, particularly those traditionally disenfranchised.

       1. As a researcher in Columbus, Cleveland and Cincinnati.

    The Brennan Center for Justice at NYU is looking for volunteers all over the country to conduct surveys so that we can learn more about voters' experiences.  

    To become a volunteer on Election Day, contact Catherine Turcer of Common Cause at or call her at 614-441-9145.

    Training Will Be Provided!

    The Election Protection hotline is a non-partisan effort and is not affiliated in any way with any candidate or political party.

    The Brennan Center for Justice at New York University School of Law is a non-partisan public policy and law institute that focuses on the fundamental issues of democracy and justice.

    We don't have to LET them steal it!

    FREEDOM ISN'T FREE: That's why we pay taxes. I Had A Thought

    by mole333 on Sun Nov 04, 2012 at 06:01:13 PM PST

    •  If they're stealing votes in the machines (0+ / 0-)

      All the vote monitors in the world won't make a difference.  Machine says Willard won, Willard won.  That's democracy in America.

      •  Well... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        If you give up you lose. Period.

        Get people, including lawyers, on the ground, you have a chance.

        Some of us have been warning about these machines for almost a decade (and documenting the problems on the ground in places like Ohio, Florida and Georgia). People didn't listen so much back then. Well if this is what we have, fight it every step of the way. We weren't untied in preventing the machines so are we going to be disunited on fighting the results as well? I hope not!

        Additionally, some of us have been pushing hard to elect honest secretaries of state. If there are problems with voting, you want a good sec of state or the problems are just perpetuated. So document problems and elect good secretaries of state...don't just give up.

        FREEDOM ISN'T FREE: That's why we pay taxes. I Had A Thought

        by mole333 on Sun Nov 04, 2012 at 06:25:56 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  The problems with computerized voting (2+ / 0-)

          machines or work stations is not so much in the computer's software. That was a problem with the firmware in the older Diebold voting machines. These new computer controlled machines are all internet connected and as we all should KNOW virtually all internet devices can be HACKED from anywhere in the world. Any average hacker could infect all the internet connected voting machines in a given state using a trojan horse to install a remotely controlled software ROBOT (BOT) that is designed to program the voting equipment's computer to calculate whatever results the remote controller desires. All this could be done without ever being detected by nearby poll workers or anybody else.

          By the way did I mention that these BOTs can be programmed to self destruct by erasing  all of its data and execution space.

          IMHO the federal government MUST require states  adhere to a federal certification program designed to protect and validate the security of any computerized voting equipment that will be used in a national election. Looking into the future, such federal certification compliance will be necessary to prevent foreign governments from MEDDLING with the voting process in critical federal elections wherein the election of one particular candidate would prove to be highly beneficial to a foreign government such as China.    

          •  Bingo -- precisely (1+ / 0-)

            I'm a programmer.  I don't like the idea of vote counting software whose source code is invisible.  I really don't like the idea of networked voting machines, and the notion that someone could slip in a last-minute "software patch" on these machines literally makes me want to throw up.

            It's astounding to me that so many people here are so ill informed as to dismiss the. most. basic. facts. as "conspiracy theory."  It speaks to the power of the Big Lie.  People believe what they want.

            •  what do you prefer (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:

              proprietary source code, or open source code?

              FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.

              by Roger Fox on Sun Nov 04, 2012 at 08:10:35 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

            •  It's not that people (0+ / 0-)

              Are dismissing it, just that multiple comments across this diary trying to explain the reality of the situation today, this year, this election, seem to be falling on deaf ears.

              I mean, what do you expect anyone to do at this point? There's clearly a heightened awareness this time around, so how about we hold off on the preemptive panic?

              Nobody wants this election stolen. Everybody's on edge.

              Let's just cautiously chill.

              Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us.
              ~ Jerry Garcia

              by DeadHead on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 01:44:31 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

      •  Ohio DRE print paper ballots (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        erush1345, MikePhoenix

        And ES&S applied the patches to the tabulators per Ohio request.

        See pages 17-19 for details of request.

        FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.

        by Roger Fox on Sun Nov 04, 2012 at 07:16:06 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Enough with the hysteria. (16+ / 0-)

    Already diaried on this, but in summary:

    Trying to steal an election in such a direct manner, under this level of scrutiny and spotlight, is TOO RISKY for these cowards to try and do.

    Do you think any Republican is willing to risk spending decades in jail for the sake of Willard Mitt Romney?

    Much more troublesome IMO is that criminal SoS Husted trying to loosen the rules to throw out tens of thousands of provisional ballots.

  •  The type of attack they are fretting about (16+ / 0-)

    would be very easy to detect. Trust me, I have an MS in computer science and extensive grad work in computer security. This is nothing but CT.

    If there is no accountability for those who authorized torture, we can no longer say that we are a nation of laws, not men.

    by MikePhoenix on Sun Nov 04, 2012 at 06:04:03 PM PST

    •  I don't care about your supposed credentials (0+ / 0-)

      I code every single day, and I can tell you right now that there are a million ways to rig it at the software level.

      Let me install a little program on your computer right now.  Seriously.  Just give me access by TeamViewer.  I will own your ass within seconds, Mr. Computer Expert.  The only way you'll get rid of me is by unplugging your machine and never turning it back on within range of a wireless router.

      A man in the middle attack really isn't that hard to do if you can install "patches" on all the machines that you need to compromise.  If you fail to see this, your MS in CS would be put to good use wiping your ass.

      •  ROTFLMAO! (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Neuroptimalian, erush1345, DeadHead

        Yeah, if I was stupid enough to give you total access to my computer I'm sure you could mess it up good. So what?

        A man in the middle attack like the one described would be easily detected. Just MANUALLY compare the votes being sent to the votes received.

        So Mr. CT expert take your fucking bullshit and your insults and feel free to stuff them where the sun don't shine. Everybody's going to be laughing at you and your crowd after election day.

        If there is no accountability for those who authorized torture, we can no longer say that we are a nation of laws, not men.

        by MikePhoenix on Sun Nov 04, 2012 at 08:41:59 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  I'm just going to say this one more time... (11+ / 0-)


    •  Why would they sign a contract to apply the patch? (0+ / 0-)


      Though its not really CT IMHO.

      FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.

      by Roger Fox on Sun Nov 04, 2012 at 07:11:09 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Because that's how patches are applied (0+ / 0-)

        Maybe I'm misunderstanding you.  But, are you suggesting that if they wanted to subvert the voting systems that the best way to do that would be to sneak in and do it while nobody was looking?   In 39 counties?  On systems under the control of 39 separate Boards of Elections?  With each Board having 2 Democrats and at least 1 Director and 1 Deputy Director?

        Look, at the very least, Jon Husted needs to explain in detail what this patch does and why it had to be applied right before a Presidential election to critical elections systems without proper verification and testing.  If he worked for a major commercial systems organization, he'd be fired for such a stunt.

        "But all in all, it's been a fabulous year for Laura and me." - bush summing up his first year in office, 3 months after 9/11, Washington, D.C., Dec. 20, 2001

        by rmx2630 on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 02:13:27 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Rather than HR you, which is tempting, (12+ / 0-)

    I will simply say again that this mysterious patch story is a bunch of hooey — on par with controlled demolition of the Twin Towers. It's a random collection of factoids which were assembled into an improbable narrative starting in 2004, when it was actually an impossible narrative. This story should have no traction. It undercuts our credibility to fight back against the ways in which the Ohio GOP is desperately trying to gain any edge they can, ways so crude and backlash-provoking that no one who had access to a "secret patch" would ever in a million years attempt them. Right now, we are fighting a last-ditch directive from our Republican secretary of state to try to toss out potentially legitimate provisional ballots on a technicality. The more we buy into trash like this, the less believability we have on things like that (Luckily, the Democrats have good lawyers on this and will likely prevail)

    Take the "Can't(or)" out of Congress. Support E. Wayne Powell in Va-07.

    by anastasia p on Sun Nov 04, 2012 at 06:10:19 PM PST

    •  Which is another reason... (5+ / 0-)

      ..why the CT angle is so aggravating.  If they were going to throw the election electronically, why suppress the vote through other means?  

      •  just to be sure (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        remember, O wasn't supposed to win last time.

        numbers ovewhelmed whatever suppression plans they had in place in 2008 and O won anyway.

        this year they are not taking any chances

        "Politics is like driving. To go backward put it in R. To go forward put it in D."
        Election Day is the DAY AFTER TOMORROW. DO SOMETHING NOW
        to bring this home for the blue team!!!

        by TrueBlueMajority on Sun Nov 04, 2012 at 06:27:27 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yes, Obama was supposed to win (0+ / 0-)

          ...and the economy was supposed to fail under a Democratic administration rather than a Republican.  That's why they stuck McCain with the job of losing to him.

          PBO outfoxed them, pardon the pun.

          America, we can do better than this...

          by Randomfactor on Sun Nov 04, 2012 at 06:48:42 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  Ohio DRE have voter verified paper ballots (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        SoOH Mom, rmx2630

        I'm quite knowledgeable on this topic, and I hate these dairies. But they are not CT.

        They may lack facts, written by people that dont have a handle on the technical aspects of voting machines or election laws.

        But its not CT.

        The election in Ohio 2004 was fraudulent, 2 election workers were convicted for what happened.

        FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.

        by Roger Fox on Sun Nov 04, 2012 at 07:09:59 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Dude (0+ / 0-)

          I have a technical handle on this, believe me.  That's why it pisses me off so much.

          •  Nope, you stated that voters got receipts- (0+ / 0-)

            Thats not how the printers work.

            If you dont understand how the VVPB works, you dont have a technical handle on this point.

            DO you even know what processor the iVotronic uses?

            Do you know what operating system the Unity tabulators use?

            What and how many ports are on the iVotronic and what are they used for?

            FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.

            by Roger Fox on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 08:21:48 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

        •  But in 2004 we could not properly investigate (0+ / 0-)

          We really do not know how much fraud was really committed in that election.  The Governor was a Republican, the Secretary of State was a Republican, the Attorney General was a Republican.  And, of course, all 3 branches of the Federal Government were Republican controlled.  There was no way to mount a credible investigation, though John Connors tried.

          And, as I recall, the convictions for the 2004 election were concerning the recounts.  Now, it seems to me that the only reason you would commit fraud during a recount is if you knew that the recount would change the outcome.  And you would only know that if you knew that there was fraud committed in the election itself. No?

          I think we have every reason to be very, very suspicious in this issue.

          Now, I will say that I am somewhat reassured by the fact that the DOJ is in Democratic hands and the Senate is in Democratic hands.  And I think that and only that would tend to restrain them. (Well, that and the fact that it is possible Obama may not actually need Ohio to win).  But, I think that is really naive to believe that they do not have the willingness and the ability to commit election fraud again if the payoff is large enough.  

          "But all in all, it's been a fabulous year for Laura and me." - bush summing up his first year in office, 3 months after 9/11, Washington, D.C., Dec. 20, 2001

          by rmx2630 on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 03:20:41 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  It has to be believable that Romney won. (0+ / 0-)

        That is why it has to be so close to prevent challenges.

        If the public ever thought it was possible, there would be rioting in the streets.

        •  Remember how mad people were in 2004? (0+ / 0-)

          Multiply that by 10X with Romney. He is not well-liked
          ever by Republicans. He is Just the "other" brand in opposition to Obama.

          Bush was actually a hero to many in this country.
          Romney,no way.

          There is no conspiracy to this. Its psychology and predictability.

          Please don't disrespect others who disagree with you on this. There is some credibility to both sides of this argument.

        •  Some states mandate recounts in close races (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          Some states automatically hand count 2-3-4-5% VV paper ballots on a random basis to audit.

          2 election workers in Ohio were convicted after 2004 - election fraud you know.......

          FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.

          by Roger Fox on Sun Nov 04, 2012 at 07:40:20 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  Heres the contract between Ohio and ES&S (0+ / 0-)

      FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.

      by Roger Fox on Sun Nov 04, 2012 at 07:04:54 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Stealing an eff'in election (0+ / 0-)

    Is this really what these people have come to? Seriously? And they want to be trusted with leading America?

    16, Progressive, Indian-American, Phillies Phan. Obama/Om/Chase Utley

    by vidanto on Sun Nov 04, 2012 at 06:11:08 PM PST

  •  I know they are not so very bright. (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Arnie, elmo, crose, Neuroptimalian

    But if they're stealing the election with a "secret" software patch, wouldn't they have found a way to keep that a secret?

    I mean, don't get me wrong, maybe they're trying. But they're not experts at this sort of thing. I still don't understand how they didn't find WMD in Iraq, because if I was going to start a phony war based on the existence of WMD, I would have planted them. U.S. had sold them all to Iraq to begin with, not complicated. Really, easier than the election thing.

    This is pretty basic election-stealing stuff. If you have a secret election-stealing software patch then you don't mention the secret election-stealing software patch.

    by Magenta on Sun Nov 04, 2012 at 06:12:58 PM PST

  •  GOTV (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Roger Fox, MikePhoenix

    The radical Republican party is the party of oppression, fear, loathing and above all more money and power for the people who robbed us.

    by a2nite on Sun Nov 04, 2012 at 06:14:55 PM PST

  •  Like Axelrod Said (3+ / 0-)

    They can only steal an election if its close. I don't think it will be close in OH, especially with the PPP latest poll out of OH. With that said, GOTV is how you guarantee it won't be close. Make some calls...

  •  I'm in Ohio (5+ / 0-)

    There are a lot of poll monitors, lawyers, etc. here, and rigging the whole system seems like it would be very hard to do given all of the people who would need to uniformly be willing to commit a felony and keep quiet about it.

    That being said, there is the potential for shenanigans at individual voting locations.  I plan to keep an eye on the exit polls - if they're significantly off the vote count from the Secretary of State someone will have some explaining to do.

    •  No offense, but you don't get it (0+ / 0-)

      It wouldn't take that many people at all.  You would need one or two people to write the logic that messes with the tabulation and any track-covering logic to hide the shenanigans.  One or two people.  That's it.  You don't need a big conspiracy here.

      •  Sigh. You also need nobody to double-check (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Roger Fox

        the results, nobody to test software changes, and nobody to report numbers that change when transmitted from the counties to the SOS office. For somebody who claims to know so much about IT, you are woefully ignorant of standard software development practices.

        If there is no accountability for those who authorized torture, we can no longer say that we are a nation of laws, not men.

        by MikePhoenix on Sun Nov 04, 2012 at 09:57:39 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  duh... this just occurred to you? (0+ / 0-)

    "Politics is like driving. To go backward put it in R. To go forward put it in D."
    to bring this home for the blue team!!!

    by TrueBlueMajority on Sun Nov 04, 2012 at 06:24:35 PM PST

  •  I wrote this before, but I'll repeat... (14+ / 0-)

    so that we can lay this near-CT to rest and get on with actual worrying about things that are likely.

    Ohio voting machines of every type (the state uses six different models of voting machine from three different companies): all of them have a voter-visible and verifiable paper record of the votes cast. A quick review of the machines listed on the Ohio SoS website shows why this idea of fraud using any kind of software "patch" or other trick, while certainly technically possible, is a lot more difficult and likely to be discovered than you're taking into account with purely software-based techniques.

    Many of the machines are optical scan devices, which either means that the voter marks the ballot by hand and then turns it in for scanning or they use a ballot marking machine (this largely for ADA compliance) and have the ballot returned to them before turning it in to scan. The voter is in direct control of their ballot until it's scanned, so there's really no opportunity for fraud until that point. Some of the most critical counties for Democrats (like Cuyahoga) use this type of machine.

    Even those machines that count votes directly, usually called DRE machines, (which about 60% of the counties use) have a visible paper audit record for the voter to review to ensure accuracy. The most common type (the Premier AccuVote-TSx, not a machine made by ES&S) even keeps a running record of what the voter does on screen (i.e., it doesn't just record the final vote choices, but all actions the voter takes, including corrections.)

    Why review this? My point is two-fold.

    First, what this means is that any attempt to rig these machines would need to take the paper trail into account, which is a much more difficult and easier to detect piece of tampering. With the optical scan machines, this record is unalterable by the machines themselves at any time, since the optical scanners do not modify the paper ballots in any way and the voter can see their ballot after it comes out of the marking machine (if they even use one, which the vast majority of voters will not) and thus those too would be almost impossible to rig without voters noticing on the spot before they actually vote (i.e., turn in the ballot to be scanned.) The same is basically true of the DRE machines, since they all present the paper audit tape for the voter to review before they approve their vote. If those records are altered, again the voter will see and know this on the spot and most will complain to poll watchers and election officials.

    Second, you have the recount problem. The very purpose for which these paper audit records were instituted was to make recounts sure and to check for machine errors (and that would of course include rigging.) If you don't rig the paper trail (and, as I pointed out above, that has some serious problems that have nothing to do with software but rather with the voter's own eyes detecting the fraud on the spot) then in any recount the fraud will be detected. In Ohio, recounts automatically include doing at least 5% by hand (i.e., they go to the paper record, not the electronic one.) Optical scan ballots are rescanned but a 5% random sample (more than enough to detect any discrepancy) is hand counted as an error check. On DRE machines, all recounts are by hand since there's no doubt that the machine record will always be the same (you're basically checking for machine errors in this case.)

    This means that virtually any recount for any reason (not just for allegations of fraud) would be almost certain to reveal the discrepancy between the electronic and paper records. Once fraud had been revealed in one place, you can be sure that no one would rest until all counties had been subjected to recount and the extent of the fraud uncovered. Since something as simple as a close election in any county will trigger a recount, this is the other serious check on any attempt to rig the vote and have a hope of actually getting away with it.

    It's not that it's impossible to do this, in a technical sense, but the risks of being caught are far higher than most of CT on "patches" and other software trick is assuming because they're focused only on the technical, software side of the problem. Remember, the paper trail was what we progressives demanded to keep these new electronic voting machines from being easy to rig the vote with. Our best protection is already in place and in use in Ohio. While I wouldn't put it past plenty of our opponents to want to rig the vote, I'm very skeptical about their ability to get away with it undetected.

    Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory, tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat. Sun Tzu The Art of War

    by Stwriley on Sun Nov 04, 2012 at 06:26:06 PM PST

    •  Well said, all OHIO DREs have VVPB printers (6+ / 0-)

      that create paper ballots, per Ohio law, any differences or in a recount the paper is hand counted per statute.

      FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.

      by Roger Fox on Sun Nov 04, 2012 at 06:56:25 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Thank you very much (4+ / 0-)

      for taking the time to explain Ohio's voting system in such detail.

    •  Finally (5+ / 0-)

      some good old-fashioned facts.

      Thank you.

      Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us.
      ~ Jerry Garcia

      by DeadHead on Sun Nov 04, 2012 at 07:09:50 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  OK then (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      Everybody in Ohio be sure to verify your paper before leaving the polling place.

      •  Eh? Who cares about the paper? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        The only time the paper would matter would be if someone actually forces a recount.  That's highly improbable, even if polling would seem to indicate discrepancies.  You could easily leave the paper trail showing everything it does now, simply report a different aggregate number, and have a damn good chance that no one is ever going to take the time to check the paper trails.

        Again, that's why there should be no such thing as 'proprietary code' on voting machines.  It should all be open source.

        •  Not so... (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Dr Erich Bloodaxe RN, Roger Fox

          since were not just talking about recounts from challenges. Any close race in any county will force a recount and this is far more common than you seem to be assuming. I'll quote Edward B. Foley, the Director of Election Law @ Moritz, run by the Mortiz College of Law at Ohio State University:

          Today, automatic recounts are quite common in Ohio, with each primary, general and special election generating at least several races within the 0.5% margin.
          In other words, there will be recounts (which automatically look at all votes on the ballots in question, especially during the hand recount procedure) and, as I pointed out above, this will be almost certain to catch any rigging in conjunction with the recounted ballots. So, in fact, there is basically a 100% chance that at least in some counties the paper record will be looked at and paid attention to.

          Not that you're wrong about proprietary code on voting machines being a bad thing (it shouldn't just be open source, it should also be "owned" by the state and/or Federal governments rather than any private holder.) But the recount process and paper records are still our best and most active defense against vote machine rigging.

          Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory, tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat. Sun Tzu The Art of War

          by Stwriley on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 05:13:12 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  10's of thousands of activists worked hard for (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          VVPB printers on DRE's.

          Rush Holt cares about paper, Michele Mulder cares about paper.....

          FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.

          by Roger Fox on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 08:43:55 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I love Rush Holt! (0+ / 0-)

            No really (in a completely platonic, "oh-my-goodness-I-wish-he-were-my-congressperson" kind of way.)

            I use to work near Princeton and it was there that I first saw one of his bumper stickers, which may be the best ever:

            "Yes, my Congressman really is a rocket scientist."

            Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory, tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat. Sun Tzu The Art of War

            by Stwriley on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 08:08:00 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

  •  Electronic Voting Machines (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Every one of those electronic voting machines have a little dot matrix printer inside that can print a two-copy receipt of how a person voted.  Just like a credit card transaction, the printer would spit out two copies of the transaction, you would sign the white copy and keep the yellow copy.   The white copies would be held by the 'merchant'  (election judge) and tallied to see whether the receipts agree with the electronic tally.  If they don't the company would have to buy back all of the voting machines at original price.
    A paper trail is essential to prevent Republicans from stealing another election.  I always thought Republicans were honest, but I've been proven wrong too many times.

  •  we actually aren't going to need ohio (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    anyway...Obama is surging everywhere these last few days.

    I expect we will win Ohio by enough that no shenanigans will matter, though...

    4pts, I think.

  •  2,500 lawyers are gonna disagree with that/charlie (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Roger Fox

    consider these terms: ocean rise, weather re-patterning, storm pathology, drout famine, acceptance of nature

    by renzo capetti on Sun Nov 04, 2012 at 07:00:19 PM PST

  •  I think all voting software should be required (0+ / 0-)

    to be open source, and open to review at any specific time, and have mandatory md5 sum checking done before and after use, as well as randomly during use, to ensure the files that are supposed to be in use are the ones in use at every point during use.

    Whether or not folks want to consider talk of election theft via machine 'CT', I think that's a reasonable position on 'trust but verify'.

    •  Whats better open or proprietary? (0+ / 0-)


      The best solution for using DREs is to have VVPB and mandatory random audits of the paper.

      Regardless of whether the source code is open or proprietary.

      FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.

      by Roger Fox on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 08:24:49 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  GOTV is the Key (0+ / 0-)

    People who support Obama have to vote.  But the Obama campaign and a myriad of supporting groups are all over this issue (as well as the poll watcher issue).  Ohio is ground zero for ground game.  All we can do at this point is vote...and make sure everyone we know who is eligible is voting including members of your church, facebook friends, google circle members.....etc.

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