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If yesterday wasn't the right time...how about today?

  • Ezra Klein on mass shootings in the United States. The entire thing is worth reading, but here's the preamble:
    When we first collected much of this data, it was after the Aurora, Colo. shootings, and the air was thick with calls to avoid “politicizing” the tragedy. That is code, essentially, for “don’t talk about reforming our gun control laws.”

    Let’s be clear: That is a form of politicization. When political actors construct a political argument that threatens political consequences if other political actors pursue a certain political outcome, that is, almost by definition, a politicization of the issue. It’s just a form of politicization favoring those who prefer the status quo to stricter gun control laws.

  • Even Rupert Murdoch is wondering why our legislators don't do anything about massacre prevention. But if anyone knows why we don't, it's Rupert Murdoch.
  • Maybe we could also take a look at fixing our broken mental health care system.
  • On the lighter side:
    SAN FRANCISCO (AP) — San Francisco's city attorney is urging a federal judge to dismiss a lawsuit seeking to overturn the city's recently approved nudity ban.

    The San Francisco Chronicle reports (http://bit.ly/... ) Dennis Herrera responded Thursday to the complaint filed by nudity activists who say the ordinance violates their constitutional rights.

    The ban was approved by the Board of Supervisors this month and is scheduled to take effect Feb. 1. It bars nudity in public places, with exceptions at events like the Bay to Breakers race and the Folsom Street Fair.

    A Google image search for the Folsom Street Fair is most certainly NSFW.
  • Some statistics on the effectiveness of the now-expired assault weapons ban. Hint: it was effective.
  • Although from many months ago, this satirical piece from The Onion is always on point in horrific situations like this.
  • This is just odd:
    CARSON CITY, Nevada -- A substitute teacher from California was found to be the only heir to a fortune of gold coins discovered by a cleaning crew in the home of a reclusive cousin who quietly stashed away a treasure of more than $7 million before he died this year.

    A court hearing in Carson City is scheduled Tuesday, when a judge is expected to certify first cousin Arlene Magdanz as the lone heir to the treasure valued at $7.4 million found in the home of Walter Samaszko Jr., Carson City Clerk-Recorder Alan Glover told the Nevada Appeal.

    Someone's lucky day.
  • We conclude this somber open thread with a reminder that Mitt Romney is, has been, and always will be a dick:
    While the election ended over a month ago, relations between news outlets and the Romney campaign may become even more fraught in the near future.

    Multiple organizations are preparing to file an official complaint regarding large charges billed to them by the campaign for meals and other events, reported BuzzFeed.

    It is common practice for campaigns to front the cost of meals and other expenses, such as bus travel, for campaign reporters and afterwards bill the news outlets for the expenditures.

    But now some outlets claim the bills are much larger than normal. In one instance, reporters were each charged $812 for a meal and a rented space where they waited before going to an event. Reporters were charged $745 after attending a “viewing party” for the vice presidential debate that featured food and alcohol.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Today we should remember the Bill of Rights (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    p gorden lippy, Mayfly

    on the 221st anniversary of its ratification

    I do so in this diary to which I invite your attention

    peace

    "We didn't set out to save the world; we set out to wonder how other people are doing and to reflect on how our actions affect other people's hearts." - Pema Chodron

    by teacherken on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 12:04:41 PM PST

  •  "Good evidence" is being gathered in CT (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    DRo, OLinda, p gorden lippy
    (Reuters) - Investigators assembled "some very good evidence" to explain what drove a 20-year-old gunman to slaughter 20 children and six adults at an elementary school, police said on Saturday, a day after one of the worst mass shootings in U.S. history shattered a small Connecticut town.
    http://www.reuters.com/...

    I am very curious what investigators mean by this since you can never satisfactorily explain why people go on shooting rampages.

    The choice of our lifetime: Mitt Romney, It Takes A Pillage or President Barack Obama, Forward Together.

    by FiredUpInCA on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 12:05:01 PM PST

    •  Whatever "good evidence" is (7+ / 0-)

      in reference to why the shooter went on a rampage, I'd really like some information about whatever possessed the boy's mother to collect guns and leave them where her son, whom she herself had described as "mentally disturbed," could get to them.

      "In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican." - H. L. Mencken

      by SueDe on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 12:12:07 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Did his mother collect guns? (0+ / 0-)

        I had heard only that he used her guns, but there are many reasons to own guns -- protection, recreation, hunting, etc.

        LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

        by dinotrac on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 12:30:49 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Apparently, yes (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          dinotrac

          She bragged to neighbors and her landscape guy about her gun collection and about taking her kids to the shooting range.  

          Crazy b*tch.  Just my opinion.

          Democratic Leaders must be very clear they stand with the working class of our country. Democrats must hold the line in demanding that deficit reduction is done fairly -- not on the backs of the elderly, the sick, children and the poor.

          by Betty Pinson on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 12:50:32 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  A gun collector should take safety precautions. (0+ / 0-)

            I guess, though, that you don't really try to protect yourself against your adult children, but...safes, trigger locks, etc -- seems prudent at the very least.

            LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

            by dinotrac on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 12:54:18 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

        •  From news reports this morning, (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          DRo, dinotrac, sukeyna, FiredUpInCA

          she owned a number of guns - handguns and rifles - and prided herself on collecting multiple guns and being a crack shot.  Yet she couldn't protect herself from being shot by her own son.  Sorta puts the lie to allowing people to keep guns to protect themselves or others.

          "In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican." - H. L. Mencken

          by SueDe on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 12:54:36 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  You would not ordinarily be on guard against a (0+ / 0-)

            family member -- especially one who lives with you.

            I wonder if she took any safety precautions.
            Easy to presume that she didn't, but also easy to imagine that her adult son would have access to the weapons.

            LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

            by dinotrac on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 01:09:14 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Easy access to weapons (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              dinotrac

              for someone - adult child or not, family member or not - who she herself described as "mentally disturbed"?  The more details we learn about her, the more she sounds as mentally disturbed as her son.

              "In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican." - H. L. Mencken

              by SueDe on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 02:34:07 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

  •  A reflection on a sad Saturday morning (0+ / 0-)

    my weekly reflection on teaching in a larger context, today in part shaped by the sad events of yesterday

    I invite you to read this post

    peace

    "We didn't set out to save the world; we set out to wonder how other people are doing and to reflect on how our actions affect other people's hearts." - Pema Chodron

    by teacherken on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 12:05:46 PM PST

  •  I wanted the president to call 4 gun control, but (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jan4insight, FiredUpInCA, mungley

    I thought about it, and I realized that there's a big downside: the second he says anything about regulating guns, it will provoke more gun sales and more donations to the NRA. If he had a Congress that would renew the assault weapons ban or take other meaningful action, I would be all for him pushing for it. But if he can't get it passed, I don't see the point of calling for it, as that's only going to motivate the opposition.

    Thoughts?

    •  Screw the opposition. This is about saving lives. (6+ / 0-)

      If it was illegal to own semiautomatic handguns, this tragic shooting wouldn't have happened.

      The killer's mother wouldn't have had them in the house for the killer to access. This woman (who may have believed guns would make her safe) was killed with her own weapon.

      A semiautomatic weapon ban would have also prevented:
      -the Aurora, Colorado theater shooting
      -the Wisconsin Sikh temple shooting
      -the Oregon mall shooting
      -the Columbine massacre
      -the Virginia Tech massacre, and many others.

      All these crimes were carried out with legally owned semiautomatic weapons.
      It's not hard to see how to stop this.

      Armed and Dangerous: a blog about gun violence

         

      •  I agree with all that (0+ / 0-)

        I have no doubt that these weapons should be illegal. But I am not convinced that the president should push for it unless he can actually get it done, because otherwise all you do is provoke more sales of semi-automatic weapons out of people who fear that he'll take away their right to buy one, and more donations to the NRA that will be used to put more pro-gun extremists in Congress. At the end of the day what does that accomplish?

      •  but how would you do it? I mean honestly think (0+ / 0-)

        about that.  

        Let's say that tomorrow an executive order is passed banning semi automatic weapons.  What happens then?  There are 100 million registered hand guns in America today, those are the ones we know about.  310 million non military firearms in total that are registered....that we know about.  One half of American homes own at least one gun.

        How in the world would we get rid of them?  What would happen after the ban was passed?

        •  The stats you represent (0+ / 0-)

          refer to guns in total, not semiautomatic weapons.

          The legal semiautomatic weapons are registered. We know who owns them. They would be required to turn them in.

          A law against murder also has difficult and expensive logistics created to support its enforcement. And murders still happen despite the existence of that law.
          But that doesn't mean that a law against murder isn't the right thing to do.

          Armed and Dangerous: a blog about gun violence

        •  re "One half on Am'n homes own at least one gun" (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          All Outta Bubble Gum

          According to the New Yorker article by Jill Lepore, the real number is one in three:  

          In 1973, there were guns in roughly one in two households in the United States; in 2010, one in three. In 1980, nearly one in three Americans owned a gun; in 2010, that figure had dropped to one in five.
          NRA lobbyists boast of big numbers to convince people that gun ownership is as American as Mom, babies, and apple pie, but it really isn't.  

          One in three families is 33%.  That means 66% of families don't own guns.  That's landslide territory -- against guns.  And it says nothing about the spouses of owners who might vote against the gun lobby.  

      •  One of the weapons was a long gun -- though (0+ / 0-)

        I've seen it reported as a .223 caliber rifle and as a shot gun.

        And revolvers are nearly as effective as semi-automatic handguns -- with one very big asterisk: the semi-automatic weapons are faster to reload.

        One big difference -- there were reports of a hundred rounds being fired.  Replace the two handguns with 8 round revolvers, and you have 16 rounds before reloading, and reloading is not that fast.

        LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

        by dinotrac on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 12:35:43 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  ME says that was the one used on ALL victims (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          dinotrac

          It turns out the 223 was in the school not in the car.

          Democratic Leaders must be very clear they stand with the working class of our country. Democrats must hold the line in demanding that deficit reduction is done fairly -- not on the backs of the elderly, the sick, children and the poor.

          by Betty Pinson on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 12:53:02 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Sorry... (0+ / 0-)

          ...but your facts are wrong.

          I knew she was the gal for me as soon as she laid her eyes on me. Right on me shoulder, she did. Popped the buggers right out her head, and laid em on me shoulder. She's a sweet heart, that gal.

          by glb3 on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 01:46:35 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Which ones? (0+ / 0-)

            LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

            by dinotrac on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 03:21:18 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Start Here... (0+ / 0-)

              Revolvers are just as effective as semi auto handguns, a revolver (S&W 686 for instance) can be reloaded just as fact as a semi auto (Glock 22 for instance). A single action revolver (Colt Single Action Army for instance) would be slower to reload.
              This kid had plenty of time to fire off 100 rounds, including reloads, from any revolver, semi auto pistol, or semi auto rifle, regardless of their capacity.  
              Go watch some YouTube videos to see for yourself.

              I knew she was the gal for me as soon as she laid her eyes on me. Right on me shoulder, she did. Popped the buggers right out her head, and laid em on me shoulder. She's a sweet heart, that gal.

              by glb3 on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 06:15:18 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Ah. Yeah, I did some snooping around after I wrote (0+ / 0-)

                that and was surprised at what can be done with auto reloaders.

                I remember reading criticisms around the time of the assault weapon ban that it seemed to be more about how scary a weapon looked than what it did.

                LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

                by dinotrac on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 07:42:38 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Agree n/t (0+ / 0-)

                  This is what a revolver is capable of, yes a revolver.


                  I knew she was the gal for me as soon as she laid her eyes on me. Right on me shoulder, she did. Popped the buggers right out her head, and laid em on me shoulder. She's a sweet heart, that gal.

                  by glb3 on Sun Dec 16, 2012 at 05:40:37 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

      •  Agree, ban the guns (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        All Outta Bubble Gum

        for personal sale and restrict ammo purchases.

        If someone really wants to shoot these guns, let them sign up for military duty to get their jollies.

        Democratic Leaders must be very clear they stand with the working class of our country. Democrats must hold the line in demanding that deficit reduction is done fairly -- not on the backs of the elderly, the sick, children and the poor.

        by Betty Pinson on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 12:52:06 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Noted, but there is no room or time for shyness. (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      jan4insight, DRo, democrattotheend, arlene

      That's a good point. We can't just let the President go out on his own and call for gun control.
      We need every rational person in this nation to demand that we change this situation.

      Take back the House in 2014!!!!!!!!!!!! (50 state strategy needed)

      by mungley on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 12:11:49 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Agreed, and we can start by hammering (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        mungley

        Congress. This link shows all members of both houses who get $$$ from the NRA:

        http://www.opensecrets.org/...

        Handmade holiday gifts from Jan4insight on Zibbet. Get 10%off everytime with coupon code KOSSACK.

        by jan4insight on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 12:18:45 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Exactly (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        mungley

        I feel like this tragedy is a wake up call for a lot of people, including me. I never felt very strongly about gun control and I am ashamed to say that I saw it as little more than a losing issue politically until yesterday. Now it seems insane to me that we allow weapons that were designed for military use into the hands of civilians.

        I think there are probably other people like me, or even people who own guns but now recognize that the right should not be unlimited. So I think maybe we can achieve at least some change on this, but as you said, there has to be a shift in public opinion. We also have to have a Congress that will pass it, which is unlikely but maybe possible in the wake of this tragedy. But the last thing we want to do is go on a losing mission that only drives up donations to the NRA and gets them even more allies in Congress.

    •  Plus, this incident shows (0+ / 0-)

      why gun control doesn't work - all of these guns were "legal" - but the vaunted gun community let us down by letting them get into the wrong hands

      •  They may be legal now, but they don't have to be (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        democrattotheend, sukeyna

        in the future. No one needs a semi-automatic handgun with a 15-round clip. (With the possible exception of law enforcement) handguns should automatically lock after each shot, then need to be unlocked and cocked to shoot again. Semi-automatic rifles and shotguns for hunting should be limited to four rounds in the magazine or clip. Plus other restrictions on who can purchase and possess guns, gun sales, ammunition, etc.

        •  There are 300 or 400 million (0+ / 0-)

          guns in the country - there's essentially no way to undo that w/o going all North Korea type facist.

          The solution is not gun regulations, it's changing the acceptance of gun culture - one to get things to start turning in that respect is to at least stop glorifying guns on sites like Daily Kos - if we can't even do that, how can we expect other things that are doable right now (e.g., the POTUS to use his "bully pulpit" to speak out) will happen.

          And yes, it will be a long hard slog - but hey, in my lifetime cigarettes went from being glamorous to more or less being a pariah.

          Guns are more entrenched so it will take longer than that, but we have to start sometime.  Ideally yesterday, but since that's not possible how about today?

        •  Agree (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          cocinero

          No private citizen needs semi-automatic or automatic rifles.

          Democratic Leaders must be very clear they stand with the working class of our country. Democrats must hold the line in demanding that deficit reduction is done fairly -- not on the backs of the elderly, the sick, children and the poor.

          by Betty Pinson on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 12:54:35 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Those sound like reasonable restrictions (0+ / 0-)

            But how do you respond to the argument that given how many are already out there, law-abiding citizens will be at a disadvantage compared to criminals if they are unable to get them?

            I don't necessarily subscribe to that viewpoint, but I never know how to refute in when talking to people who oppose gun restrictions.

            •  Somewhat dated on weapons public policy (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              cocinero

              I used to be quite active with the Brady group in the 90's, so I'm not up to speed on what has been proposed.  They've spent decades working on these issues.

              Their web site may be a good resource as they were always good on policy and information.

              Link

              Democratic Leaders must be very clear they stand with the working class of our country. Democrats must hold the line in demanding that deficit reduction is done fairly -- not on the backs of the elderly, the sick, children and the poor.

              by Betty Pinson on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 01:51:23 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

    •  Actually I think he did start the process (4+ / 0-)

      He statement about "we must come together to solve this, regardless of the politics" (paraphrase) is the money quote. Imo, and I know it's subtle, he threw down the gauntlet. And I don't think I'm the only with that opinion.

      So instead of "putting pressure on him" as if he really does ride that unicorn with lazer beams shooting out his hands - let's back him up, okay?

      Start by hammering Congress. Here's a link to all in both houses who get $$$ from the NRA:

      http://www.opensecrets.org/...

      Handmade holiday gifts from Jan4insight on Zibbet. Get 10%off everytime with coupon code KOSSACK.

      by jan4insight on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 12:17:31 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Exactly. I think it was the right response (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        jan4insight, Mayfly, cocinero

        He initiated the conversation without giving the NRA a fundraising email, at least for now. This may sound cynical, but it makes sense for him to wait to see if there is enough public support for renewing the assault ban or any other gun legislation before pushing it. He has a Congress that is unlikely to pass anything on guns unless there is a massive groundswell of support for it, so until he can gage whether there is a snowball's chance in hell of making any progress on the issue it just doesn't make sense to call for specific legislation, which will do nothing but encourage more gun sales and more NRA donations.

      •  And yes, agree about having his back, and about (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        jan4insight, Mayfly, cocinero

        starting by pushing Congress. I am proud that my new rep (Nadler) was actually the first one to call for legislative action after the shooting.

        Another important thing we can do is give to the Brady Campaign, http://www.bradycampaign.org/. The more resources they have, the more they can provide a counter-weight to the NRA. If members were even half as afraid of them as the NRA we'd have a more level playing field.

        •  Serendipity - I just found this quote by your (0+ / 0-)

          guy Nadler. He sounds like a good rep, congrats:

          "The NRA is the enabler of mass murderers" - Nadler

          New York Democratic Rep. Jerrold Nadler called for a “war” on the National Rifle Association in light of the mass shooting in Connecticut today in an interview with Salon, saying the gun lobby group is the “enabler of mass murderers.”

          Nadler, a rare fierce advocate of gun control on Capitol Hill, said the shooting should be a wake-up call to our “crazy attitude to guns” and the power of the gun lobby. He noted that other modern industrialized countries like the U.K., Sweden and Germany witness fewer than 50 gun homicides every year, compared to the roughly 10,000 people killed here. The difference, he said, is that they have “rational gun control regimes,” while we can barely even discuss gun control thanks to the power of the gun lobby.

          From http://www.democraticunderground.com/... with link to full article.

          Handmade holiday gifts from Jan4insight on Zibbet. Get 10%off everytime with coupon code KOSSACK.

          by jan4insight on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 12:28:28 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  An important column from Gail Collins (0+ / 0-)

    in this morning's NY Times which I explore in this post to which I invite your attention.

    "We didn't set out to save the world; we set out to wonder how other people are doing and to reflect on how our actions affect other people's hearts." - Pema Chodron

    by teacherken on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 12:06:38 PM PST

  •  There will be 6 funerals at St Rose of Lima Church (11+ / 0-)

    in Newtown over the next few days.  One will be for a 6-year-old girl who was to have played an angel at the Christmas Eve Mass.

    Photobucket

    Be sure you put your feet in the right place; then stand firm. ~ Abraham Lincoln

    by noweasels on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 12:07:21 PM PST

  •  Apparently Mitt Romney (8+ / 0-)

    is not only a dick, he's a CHEAP dick - the worst kind.

    "In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican." - H. L. Mencken

    by SueDe on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 12:07:46 PM PST

  •  See? This is how the 1% works. We pay though the (7+ / 0-)

    nose to support their lifestyle.

    Each and every one of us has had to pay more to protect their private air travel, and subsidize their tax holidays when they claim to be creating "jobs" (low wage no benefits, bus travel required at the cost of our infrastructure)  in our cities, which turn out to be a drain our our public services.

    Take back the House in 2014!!!!!!!!!!!! (50 state strategy needed)

    by mungley on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 12:09:10 PM PST

  •  Mitt Romney is definitely (5+ / 0-)

    not running for anything ever again or he wouldn't be billing the press like this.

  •  Lanza's mother 'bit of a survivalist' (6+ / 0-)

    Who feared 'economic collapse' (apparently from her very well-heeled suburban Connecticut neighborhood). and had beefs with the school district, and home-schooled her son.

    This from MSNBC.

    I'm fighting the urge to pass judgment but it's damned hard.

    And I AM NOT throwing a blanket over home-schoolers and gun owners.  But this 'economic collapse' gun collector seems -- from afar -- like another fucking loon.  

    Forgive me for judging the dead.  Not my intent but I just don't know ...

    •  more karmic justice /nt (0+ / 0-)

      yksitoista ulotteinen presidentin shakki. / tappaa kaikki natsit "Nous sommes un groupuscule" (-9.50; -7.03) 政治委员, 政委‽ Warning - some snark above ‽

      by annieli on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 12:11:57 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  If those reports are true (0+ / 0-)

      it sounds like Nancy Lanza was a graduate of Glenn Beck University. Not that everyone who follows people like Beck are crazy, but many people with underlying mental illnesses are attracted to those of like mind.

    •  I believe she's been decscribed by those (5+ / 0-)

      who knew her as a "responsible" gun owner and there doesn't seem to be any question that she owned the guns legally. We may assume part of her reason for owning the guns was for self-protection.

      Whoa. This tells us a few things:

      Pro-gun arguments about "responsible" gun owners never letting this thing happen are a bunch of hooey.

      Self-protection reasons for owning guns are a bunch of hooey. I mean, that worked out real well for her, didn't it?

      Last but not least, if a LEGAL gun did this much damage - the the FUCKING LAWS ARE TOO WEAK! LET'S FUCKING CHANGE THEM!!!

      Handmade holiday gifts from Jan4insight on Zibbet. Get 10%off everytime with coupon code KOSSACK.

      by jan4insight on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 12:23:17 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  She couldn't have been too much of a (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        jan4insight

        "responsible" gun owner since she left the guns where they were readily available to her "mentally disturbed" son.

        "In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican." - H. L. Mencken

        by SueDe on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 01:09:25 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yes, I agree. However I made the point (0+ / 0-)

          because so many RKBA'rs here are always blah-blahing about how any effort to stop innocent kids from being gunned down like this would "infringe"  and "punish" the "responsible" gun owners, whine, snivel.

          If that's their idea of a "responsible" gun owner, they badly need an upgrade in their thinking.

          Handmade holiday gifts from Jan4insight on Zibbet. Get 10%off everytime with coupon code KOSSACK.

          by jan4insight on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 01:13:39 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  Do you have a link for that? (0+ / 0-)

      "Republicans have been fleeced and exploited and lied to by a conservative entertainment complex." - David Frum

      by Glinda on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 12:40:23 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Here you go (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        DRo

        Democratic Leaders must be very clear they stand with the working class of our country. Democrats must hold the line in demanding that deficit reduction is done fairly -- not on the backs of the elderly, the sick, children and the poor.

        by Betty Pinson on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 12:56:17 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  An aunt in NC who hasn't seen him since he was 3 (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          DRo

          and is a blood relative to the ex-husband is "reported" (not seen on camera) as saying that Nancy Lanza was a survivalist.

          Uh-huh. She's a reliable source. Sure.

          I'm going t wait for the official report from the police to come out before I believe any of the rumors mongered by the irresponsible media at this time.

          "Republicans have been fleeced and exploited and lied to by a conservative entertainment complex." - David Frum

          by Glinda on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 01:06:50 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  The fact that she stockpiled weapons and ammo (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            sukeyna

            and took her kids to the shooting range regularly, including one that had obvious mental illness, doesn't paint a very flattering picture of her either.

            The killer had a large cache of very dangerous weapons and ammo that he took with him to do his dirty deed.  He had been trained by his mother in how to shoot those weapons.  

            Enough said.

            Democratic Leaders must be very clear they stand with the working class of our country. Democrats must hold the line in demanding that deficit reduction is done fairly -- not on the backs of the elderly, the sick, children and the poor.

            by Betty Pinson on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 01:15:32 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  I agree: "Enough said" (0+ / 0-)

              But not in the way that you mean.  

              I've seen enough rumor mongering from the media.  I am certainly not going to pay any heed to the gossiping of people who have an ax to grind one way or the other.

              "Republicans have been fleeced and exploited and lied to by a conservative entertainment complex." - David Frum

              by Glinda on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 01:24:21 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  That's your decision (0+ / 0-)

                Everything I've stated so far is documented.  I'm fairly reality based and not afraid to face reality about these problems.

                Democratic Leaders must be very clear they stand with the working class of our country. Democrats must hold the line in demanding that deficit reduction is done fairly -- not on the backs of the elderly, the sick, children and the poor.

                by Betty Pinson on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 01:45:05 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Your "reality" is based on media gossip. (0+ / 0-)

                  That you leap to conclusions at early and conflicting reports casts a very unflattering picture on you IMHO.  

                  "Documented"?  RTFLMAO!

                  But you are not alone.  My FB feed as well as a not insignificant population of dKos is replete with a feeding frenzy savoring all the details and making snap judgments.  Thankfully, those who are wiser refrain from ugly speculation at this point.

                  "Republicans have been fleeced and exploited and lied to by a conservative entertainment complex." - David Frum

                  by Glinda on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 02:00:07 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

    •  I'm a "bit of a survivalist" myself--grow as much (0+ / 0-)

      food in the back yard as I can, save seeds, keep an emergency pantry, etc.  

      I don't think the world is ending, but I grew up in hurricane country and lived my early married life in primitive conditions where we were sometimes iced in for a couple of weeks, etc.

      Fiscal conservative: a Republican ready to spend $5 to save a dime--especially if that dime is helping a non-donor.

      by Mayfly on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 12:44:57 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Broken Mental Health System? What's causing it? (0+ / 0-)

    Try fixing your broken education system...created through bi-partisan efforts..

    Educational experience based on non-consensual behaviorism is authoritarian mind control.

    by semioticjim on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 12:11:13 PM PST

  •  Today's Too Early. Mass Shooting In Birmingham. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mike101, DRo, Mayfly

    3 wounded & OK, only gunman killed.

    Diary here.

    We can't start a discussion now that yesterday's shooting is past because now we have today's victims we need to respect.

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 12:13:39 PM PST

  •  just to vent, the trad media coverage has been the (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Mayfly, SueDe

    usual awful, predictable, and exploitative gamish. I could only watch about 10 nanoseconds of coverage. Once you learn the scale and the location, there's nothing left to find out until much later.

    During my brief attempt to learn more about what happened, I hit on Chris Mathtews, who was saying to his reporter in the field something like, "What's the feeling like there . . .?"

    What the hell kind of stupid, air-filling, human psychodrama fallback position/question is that? What the hell do you think it's like? I can tell you without being there as part of that feeding frenzy/swarm.

    Horror, grief,  disbelief, holiday time, trauma, wailing, never be the same, get that camera out of my face!

    Leave these poor people alone except insofar as you are offering them something that may be of help. Other than that, get out and stay out.

    Fear is the mind-killer - Frank Herbert, Dune

    by p gorden lippy on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 12:15:06 PM PST

    •  p gorden lippy, well said. "Aside from that, Mrs. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      p gorden lippy

      Lincoln, how did you like the play?"

      Fiscal conservative: a Republican ready to spend $5 to save a dime--especially if that dime is helping a non-donor.

      by Mayfly on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 12:59:23 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  You answered your own question. (0+ / 0-)

      Air-filling.  That's the only reason to have cameras poked in the faces of the traumatized or the authorities who don't know enough yet to report anything.  

      "In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican." - H. L. Mencken

      by SueDe on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 01:13:26 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  For people anxious about a possible (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Eikyu Saha, Mayfly, SueDe

    special election in MA, I would read this from The Fix.

    I dont underestimate Scott Brown if he runs, but he isnt a shoo in by any means.

    •  That's a scary article. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Mayfly

      Aaron Blake, Chris Cilizza and Sean Sullivan are not GOP hacks, yet still they figure that 9 out of the top 10 power turnovers in the 2014 Senate races are in danger of going from D to R.  

      That's not good at all.  It means the full national campaign is already gearing up, and the Democrats had better perform.  It also means the campaigners have to keep their base fired up.  

      And the Massachusetts seat didn't even make the list, because they think (correctly, I believe) that Scott Brown is no longer a shoo-in.  

    •  I just read your linked story, (0+ / 0-)

      and I have just one question:  Would North Carolina voters actually elect Virginia Foxx to the senate?!  Surely there are enough rational citizens of that state not to allow such an embarrassment to befall them.

      "In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican." - H. L. Mencken

      by SueDe on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 01:25:20 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  I just wrote to my Republican Congressperson, (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Mayfly, 714day

    and asked him to reintroduce the Brady Bill.

    This is not an Us and Them issue.
    Any American who sits idly by or promotes the status quo is harming our people.

    Please consider doing the same, even if your Congressperson is a gun advocate.

    Take back the House in 2014!!!!!!!!!!!! (50 state strategy needed)

    by mungley on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 12:23:05 PM PST

    •  I'll write my new Democratic rep (0+ / 0-)

      after he's sworn in Jan. 3rd.  Nothing regarding gun control is going to come up in the House before then, and my current Republican rep is a poopy head.

      "In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican." - H. L. Mencken

      by SueDe on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 01:27:34 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  The problems we face today. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SueDe
    In Dover, Pennsylvania, a pastor named Ray Mummert delivered a line that sums up many of the problems we face today, “"We've been attacked," he says, "by the intelligent, educated segment of our culture."

    -- We are just regular people informed on issues

    by mike101 on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 12:26:23 PM PST

    •  Yeah, it always the intelligent, (0+ / 0-)

      educated people who turn out to be the mass murderers.

      I'm beginning to wonder how "educated" one needs to be to become a pastor and how "intelligent" one needs to be to join his flock.

      "In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican." - H. L. Mencken

      by SueDe on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 01:30:47 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  The Klein piece is good and thought provoking (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SueDe

    This one is, in a very odd way, sort of comforting:

    http://abcnews.go.com/...

    if only to say that we are not in some new and unprecedented phase of our history.

    LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

    by dinotrac on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 12:27:47 PM PST

    •  There is a very interesting statistic (0+ / 0-)

      in the story you linked to, dino:

      Still, the details of each case [of mass murder] are certainly troubling. In 49 of the 61 cases [since the '70s] the gunmen obtained the weapons legally, and the majority of those weapons used were semi-automatic. Forty three of the 61 killers were white males, and one was a female, according to the list.
      Although most people are surely aware that women don't kill groups of people, I doubt they realize that white men commit by far the majority of mass murders.

      "In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican." - H. L. Mencken

      by SueDe on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 02:05:56 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yes...but, to be fair -- that's 60 men in 40 years (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        SueDe

        So, at least it's not a typical action.

        I wonder if there's a clue in that.  Women are less well-represented in more ordinary murders as well, though I understand their participation to be growing.

        It would be interesting to go back and inventory those killers.

        At least one was a guy going on a rampage after losing his job -- I imagine stressed out and unhinged is a category.  Then you've got the "not right in the head" folks like Aurora and, apparently,  Newtown and maybe Columbine.

        I would like to think --- and this is probably just human nature --- that there are some threads, some causes we could pick up on.  Otherwise -- well, that's just depressing to think about.

        LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

        by dinotrac on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 03:20:36 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  It's great to see so many diaries here kicking up (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Mayfly

    the conversation "it's not the time" to have.
    Gun control. Mental health care.
    It's a magillah, and it's long past the time.

  •  And somewhere, al-Qaeda is sitting back (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Mayfly

    and watching all this with some sort of confirmation of their beliefs regarding Americans...

  •  So... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    DRo

    laws are passed about nudity on the streets, but not guns.

  •  ME at the press conference now (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Phil S 33, DRo

    He says all of the wounds were caused by the rifle.  Assume he means the .233 Bushmaster, which it turns out was found in the school. The handguns were not used.

    Here's a video of someone shooting a Bushmaster

    Democratic Leaders must be very clear they stand with the working class of our country. Democrats must hold the line in demanding that deficit reduction is done fairly -- not on the backs of the elderly, the sick, children and the poor.

    by Betty Pinson on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 12:41:52 PM PST

  •  CT ME: Families identified children by photo (0+ / 0-)

    All the children were first graders.

    They were killed with an assault rifle; some at close range.

    Be sure you put your feet in the right place; then stand firm. ~ Abraham Lincoln

    by noweasels on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 12:42:14 PM PST

  •  I wish you had a more reliable source (0+ / 0-)

    for the Romney info than just Rawstory citing Buzzfeed.  I will withhold any judgement until a media source that isn't a scandal rag reports this.

    "Republicans have been fleeced and exploited and lied to by a conservative entertainment complex." - David Frum

    by Glinda on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 12:42:49 PM PST

  •  He also says everyone was hit more than once (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Gooserock, DRo

    He has not yet autopsied the shooter or his mother, will do those tomorrow.

    Talk about a thankless job, the ME and his staff are doing a great public service, but what a horrible job it is.

    Democratic Leaders must be very clear they stand with the working class of our country. Democrats must hold the line in demanding that deficit reduction is done fairly -- not on the backs of the elderly, the sick, children and the poor.

    by Betty Pinson on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 12:43:29 PM PST

    •  Have You Cried Over This? --"Not YET." nt (0+ / 0-)

      We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

      by Gooserock on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 12:48:14 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  He's probably afraid (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Gooserock

        that once he starts he won't be able to stop.  He says he has in the past, I'm sure he will.  

        Democratic Leaders must be very clear they stand with the working class of our country. Democrats must hold the line in demanding that deficit reduction is done fairly -- not on the backs of the elderly, the sick, children and the poor.

        by Betty Pinson on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 12:59:10 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  How would someone use such a gun (0+ / 0-)

      to kill himself?  From the picture, it doesn't look like it could be aimed successfully back at oneself.

      "In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican." - H. L. Mencken

      by SueDe on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 02:11:36 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Excuse me---but the Chief Medical Examiner in CT (0+ / 0-)

    can go to hell----with his snide humor about court appearances and other remarks made with a laugh.

    Asshole!!  He may know his medical shit, but that's it!!!

    •  I feel sorry for him (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      sukeyna, ConfusedSkyes

      He's not used to doing press conferences and just finished doing the most traumatic job of his entire career.  He just seemed exhausted, awkward and not sure how to answer some of the questions.

      Democratic Leaders must be very clear they stand with the working class of our country. Democrats must hold the line in demanding that deficit reduction is done fairly -- not on the backs of the elderly, the sick, children and the poor.

      by Betty Pinson on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 01:00:41 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Each child shot from 2 to several times (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Gooserock, DRo

    with the assault rifle, per MSNBC

    Cliff Van Zandt just choked up reading it.

    Now reporting Lanza had been at the shooting range w/ family in recent weeks.

    Democratic Leaders must be very clear they stand with the working class of our country. Democrats must hold the line in demanding that deficit reduction is done fairly -- not on the backs of the elderly, the sick, children and the poor.

    by Betty Pinson on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 01:05:03 PM PST

  •  Just think of all the money spent by the media, (0+ / 0-)

    for NOT getting the privilege of asking Romney a question.

    Chumps.

    Given the billions they raked in pretending there was a horserace, they should be better sports.

    "Life is short, but long enough to get what's coming to you." --John Alton

    by Palafox on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 02:28:20 PM PST

  •  Irony mocks Wayne LaPierre... (0+ / 0-)

    In the picture the Onion ran, he is speaking at a lectern that is behind a bullet shield.  Advocate of firearm rights at every turn, but still uses a bullet shield himself.  I wonder if they check for weapons at the entrance to the auditorium.  Maybe he is smart enough to realize that the NRA's political position jeopardizes everyone's safety, even his own.

    A mind is a terrible thing to close.

    by alliwant on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 05:08:13 PM PST

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