Skip to main content

You ask for a national “conversation” about gun control? What are you smoking? There is no one to have this conversation with. I guess it might feel good to have your national conversation about gun with yourself while you’re jerking yourself off, but, get real.

The time for talking is very long past. The time to get as many of those 100s of millions of handguns out of the publics hands is now. Leverage a sad, sad event like Newtown and unleash the military. They might hate the job, but they will obey. You might have to replace some idiot officers, but that will only improve the military. The NCOs and EMs will do the job. It’ll be messy. And dangerous, but our military can do it.

They might as well get the assault weapons at the same time. Long guns are another story. Where would the Constitutionally protected and mandated militias be with long guns? And hunting, except for the jackass trophy hunters, is honorable and useful.

However, there is no reason for ordinary citizens to own handguns. Make them illegal by executive order and have the military get the guns. NOW. Stop blithering talking, or even more stupidly, talking about talking.

EMAIL TO A FRIEND X
Your Email has been sent.
You must add at least one tag to this diary before publishing it.

Add keywords that describe this diary. Separate multiple keywords with commas.
Tagging tips - Search For Tags - Browse For Tags

?

More Tagging tips:

A tag is a way to search for this diary. If someone is searching for "Barack Obama," is this a diary they'd be trying to find?

Use a person's full name, without any title. Senator Obama may become President Obama, and Michelle Obama might run for office.

If your diary covers an election or elected official, use election tags, which are generally the state abbreviation followed by the office. CA-01 is the first district House seat. CA-Sen covers both senate races. NY-GOV covers the New York governor's race.

Tags do not compound: that is, "education reform" is a completely different tag from "education". A tag like "reform" alone is probably not meaningful.

Consider if one or more of these tags fits your diary: Civil Rights, Community, Congress, Culture, Economy, Education, Elections, Energy, Environment, Health Care, International, Labor, Law, Media, Meta, National Security, Science, Transportation, or White House. If your diary is specific to a state, consider adding the state (California, Texas, etc). Keep in mind, though, that there are many wonderful and important diaries that don't fit in any of these tags. Don't worry if yours doesn't.

You can add a private note to this diary when hotlisting it:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from your hotlist?
Are you sure you want to remove your recommendation? You can only recommend a diary once, so you will not be able to re-recommend it afterwards.
Rescue this diary, and add a note:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from Rescue?
Choose where to republish this diary. The diary will be added to the queue for that group. Publish it from the queue to make it appear.

You must be a member of a group to use this feature.

Add a quick update to your diary without changing the diary itself:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary?
(The diary will be removed from the site and returned to your drafts for further editing.)
(The diary will be removed.)
Are you sure you want to save these changes to the published diary?

Comment Preferences

  •  Sort of agree (0+ / 0-)

    with your point about talking - everyone more or less knows where everyone else stands. No go on the executive order though as they have to be based on existing legislation as far as I know.

  •  That idea kind of freaks even me out (9+ / 0-)

    I don't own a gun and don't feel that the 2nd Amendment precludes gun regulation, but the idea of the military going into people's homes and confiscating their guns really creeps me out. That's what they did in Nazi Germany.

    Plus, even if there is no 2nd amendment problem, your proposal would be unconstitutional under the Takings Clause (unless govt. provided just compensation for every gun seized) and under the search and seizure clause of the 4th Amendment. Even if you made gun ownership a crime, you would still need probable cause to search people's homes for guns.

    •  So... (0+ / 0-)

      your solution is to talk until everyone has many guns and then we all form a circle and shoot. Or do you some actual idea for saving people from the many idiots with guns roaming about. I live in Florida and the number of guns my middle class neighbors have is just scary. I've reached the point of thinking that maybe a nice shotgun would fit in home décor. Probably won't happen and some jerk will shoot me dead for thinking badly of him.

  •  No. n/t (6+ / 0-)

    "A lie is not the other side of a story; it's just a lie."

    by happy camper on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 05:38:58 PM PST

  •  Sure...Just do away with the bill of rights. (8+ / 0-)

    Free Speech? Might as well get rid of that.

    Protections against illegal search and seizure. Throw those out so we can make everyone 'safe'...

    What other rights do we disagree with?

    Let's just throw them all out the window in the name of making people safe.

    I suppose the Patriot act ain't such a bad thing now since 'it kept people safe'

    Extremism in response is not the way.

    Do we need to renew and implement some new laws? Yes. But those advocating this type of extremism obviously haven't thought fully about what they are suggesting.

    -6.38, -6.21: Lamented and assured to the lights and towns below, Faster than the speed of sound, Faster than we thought we'd go, Beneath the sound of hope...

    by Vayle on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 05:42:21 PM PST

    •  argument by stupidity (0+ / 0-)

      let's let everyone kill whoever they damn well please. Do you support G. Zimmerman's murder of T. Martin? It seems he might walk.

      •  No, Do you support the Patriot Act? (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        BlackSheep1, democrattotheend

        By your own logic - and that's being generous, if enough people abuse the first amendment, we should just do away with it.

        There's too much crime, so personal privacy should take a back burner as a right...

        Let's just take away those rights from people that 'we' don't disagree with.  See how that works...

        We need proper gun control laws and enforcement. Repealing the second amendment or taking guns away from everyone is not the answer.

        I have to agree though, your argument is 'by stupidity'. Right back at ya there. No one is advocating the killing or murder of anyone else. So take the extremist emotionalistic response, set it aside and try to think about solutions which will actually work and have real traction.

        And think long and hard before you advocate giving up any rights in exchange for 'safety'.

        -6.38, -6.21: Lamented and assured to the lights and towns below, Faster than the speed of sound, Faster than we thought we'd go, Beneath the sound of hope...

        by Vayle on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 07:13:47 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  You know how this would play out, don't you? (0+ / 0-)

    You'd have that insane clown at the NRA talking to his gun-nut pals saying:

     

    "See, I told you so! Obama is coming to take your guns away! Lock and load!!!elebenty111!!"
    Then you have Civil War 11... street to street, house to house.

    Yeah fine idea you have there, fluffy.

    Why don't you instead follow the Australian example of granting an amnesty for all newly illegal weapons, buy them from the owners at market prices and have them destroyed in a very public display.

    Put a tax on rich arseholes to pay for it and call it the "Protecting our Children Levy". Who in Congress is going to vote against protecting kids, especially after the latest horror?

    Anybody who still holds an illegal weapon after the amnesty faces very stiff prison time and a family-bankrupting fine. You know, a deterrent. Something which makes it not worth keeping the weapon.

    Finally, declare the NRA a terrorist organisation and make membership a federal offense. You know, providing materiel support for terrorists.

    'If you want to be a hero, well just follow me.' - J. Lennon

    by Clive all hat no horse Rodeo on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 06:05:45 PM PST

    •  you really think (0+ / 0-)

      any but the most demented gun nuts would take on an Army or Marine combat unit. Yeah you probably do.

      I know the problem is immense. But all I see on most blogs is a request that can we please talk to you, pretty please.

      That will solve nothing and if the mold can't be shattered tens of thousands of gun murders will soon be the rule.

      The other thing I see is gun murderers are mentally ill and so must be excused and/or handled gently. As if they murdered no one.

      As for declaring the NRA a terrorist organization, right on. Should have happened decades ago.

      •  many soldiers would refuse those orders (2+ / 0-)

        Remember all those conservatives in the military?

        Hell, the main thing those Oath-Keeper clowns are worried about is being issued orders to confiscate citizens guns.

        Not to mention, I'd imagine a fair share of Progressives would defy this law. If for no other reason than it'd be the edict of a full-fledged Police State. I sure wouldn't be comfortable with it. Any POTUS crazy enough to do this probably wouldn't have much of a problem with martial law and concentration camps.

        "See? I'm not a racist! I have a black friend!"

        by TheHalfrican on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 09:11:15 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Don't know much about our military, eh (0+ / 0-)

          Virtually no soldier will refuse such orders, and if any try, and their teammates quail a bit, the heavy NCO feet will fix things.

          What exactly do you think will happen if heaven forbid all these RW assholes with guns decide to get some white purity back in the WH. Which way do think the Army will go? Some might grit their teeth but the Army(and marines and navy, etc) will be 110% in support the United States government. And they will obey orders, if there is a legal basis, to get the guns. There has to be a way to get the guns.

          Or do you reflexively have our military for being intellectual beneath you? They generally are, so effing what. In many ways I assume they are much superior.

      •  Do I really think... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Justanothernyer
        any but the most demented gun nuts would take on an Army or Marine combat unit.
        ?

        Yes, and I'm far from the only one.

        Cochran smiles. ‘You’re going to make a hell of a mess, but human flesh tears easily. Bone is a pain in the a--.’ He knows what he’s talking about, having served four years as a combat medic with the US Marines during Operation Desert Storm. His ‘handle’, or nickname, in the militia is ‘Doc’. And yet, as he freely admits, the hypothetical enemy – the target he’s teaching the people gathered here today to kill – is a US soldier.

        Why? Cochran says he is simply exercising his constitutional right to assemble an armed civilian force that is prepared to fight any enemy, be they domestic or foreign. There are 27 men in Cochran’s squad including, apparently, both former and serving soldiers, policemen and members of the sheriff’s department.

        This didn’t surprise me. I’d already read about Richard Mack, a former sheriff of Graham County, Arizona, who now travels the country ‘crusading for freedom and individual rights’ and insists ‘the greatest threat we face today is not terrorists; it is our own federal government’.

        The militias, which are dotted throughout the US and, according to recent figures, are growing rapidly in numbers, claim they are bulwarks against tyranny. The US Department of Homeland Security takes a dimmer view, warning of a ‘rise in Right-wing anti-government extremist activity’ as far back as April 2009 and a ‘phenomenon of violent radicalisation’.

        [...]
        So how could he ever envisage taking up arms against the US military? ‘If they take our guns away,’ he told me.
        [...]

         

        ‘They’ll all get to the same damn place eventually. Our job as militia is to re-establish the government in a way George [Washington] and the boys intended. And to do that we can’t go and hide in the bushes; we have to take active participation in the overthrow that Thomas Jefferson point-blank told us was our duty as Americans.’
        And this is just one of many militia leaders.

        Do you really believe that these people aren't willing to take on the regular army?

        Certainly, the militias I spoke to all seemed to share the same preoccupations. One man recruiting for a new militia in Oklahoma told me he wanted to be ‘prepared to put down a tyrannical government’. A member of a group in Mississippi said that if the government ‘did something crazy’, like take away their guns, he couldn’t predict what people would do: ‘This could get real ugly, real quick.’
        YOU

        REALLY

        NEED

        TO

        WAKE UP

        This crazy idea of yours (take away their guns) is just the spark these nuts are looking for.

        'If you want to be a hero, well just follow me.' - J. Lennon

        by Clive all hat no horse Rodeo on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 10:12:45 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yo (0+ / 0-)

          Let's wait until one of your brave gutsy ballsy all-Australian or all-American batshit crazy militias tries it on with a real military unit. They might have been pros once but they're not now. My money on the military. In the blink of an eye. $10 on the outcome pal?

          Oh, and here, every last one of the insane clowns is 100% sure Obama is already coming for their guns soon. I don't need to provide a spark.

          •  Did I just hear you volunteer... (0+ / 0-)

            to be on the front line confiscating weapons? If you want to put your money where your mouth is, join the military or LE and get to work.

            Because if you don't, you aren't credible, your ideas aren't credible and this conversation is over.

            'If you want to be a hero, well just follow me.' - J. Lennon

            by Clive all hat no horse Rodeo on Sun Dec 16, 2012 at 03:46:20 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  I'm well past 65 asshat (0+ / 0-)

              and I've done my time on the gun line in SE Asia. And it sucked. So STFU. And yeah, if I could I would. My one gun is old 12 ga Winchester M12. It'd be very useful. I keep it as an antique not an actual weapon, but with the bayonet it's a scary MF even I can can't shoot anyone with it.

              And to push it a bit more I have parents and uncles and aunts CPA pins and experience and many more with 40's Haganah experience (yes I'm a yid but you best not go there there) and am damn proud of them. They went into the streets in the 30s just the way I started doing in the 70s.

              You wouldn't be fit fit to be toilet fodder in this home.

              •  So you have nothing. You have posted a diary (0+ / 1-)
                Recommended by:
                Hidden by:
                fluffy

                advocating sending youth into the firing line to confiscate weapons and you pull the age card. You still have the strength to pull a trigger, don't you? Re-enlist grandpa and start taking those weapons off the street.

                Otherwise, STFU.

                'If you want to be a hero, well just follow me.' - J. Lennon

                by Clive all hat no horse Rodeo on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 12:35:13 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  you know some way (0+ / 0-)

                  a military unit will take me at my age? Geez, but you're fucking special. And moron of easy making assumptions about others, I am not a grandfather, by choice.

                  I just don't know if I still have the strength to pull a trigger (or withstand the the kick:)). So let's do an experiment. Weather is near perfect here in Florida. I'll have a local gunsmith make the M12 active again. And you can stand next to me because I have no desire or need to shoot you while I see if can pull the trigger while pumping the gun. When it clicks empty we can see if I still have the guts to put the bayonet in what's left of the target. Actually the sword was always the easy part for me.

                  I'll be be waiting on you airbag.

                  •  You know (0+ / 0-)

                    let me apologize to you. There's no way, despite the super UID which still causes me to shake, that you are anything but an NRA troll and you've truly pwned me. My bad. I'll go away and let you troll someone else. Bye.

                    •  Nice ratings abuse, fluffy. Is that all you've (0+ / 1-)
                      Recommended by:
                      Hidden by:
                      fluffy

                      got?

                      You post a diary calling for numerous violations of the constitution which would likely lead to a great number of people getting killed. You then pull the age card to excuse yourself from said action (hint - on the internet, nobody knows you're a dog).

                      And now you resort to childish name calling. If anything, YOU are the NRA troll posting a bullshit diary designed to antagonise.

                      You coward, wanting to put people in harms way just to push the NRAs agenda. You yellow bastard. Shame on you.

                      'If you want to be a hero, well just follow me.' - J. Lennon

                      by Clive all hat no horse Rodeo on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 05:53:47 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                    •  Finally. You have nothing to do but impotently (0+ / 0-)

                      drop donuts. I'll bet your buddies from the 'fire line' are proud of you.

                      Do let us all know when you confiscate your first firearm, won't you?

                      'If you want to be a hero, well just follow me.' - J. Lennon

                      by Clive all hat no horse Rodeo on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 07:40:39 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  My Gad (0+ / 0-)

                        They just confiscated my first firearm. And I have no buddies from the "fire line" whatever that is in your mind. Most of my friends from then are gone. Many suffer bad PTSD.I guess I was psych enough to avoid that. And yeah, I'll HR your BS replies as long as I have few left. Count on it. The HRed replies have no place on this site.

                        •  Loser. Please post a pic when you take away... (0+ / 0-)

                          your first weapon. Otherwise, stfu.

                          Oh, ps. 'they' confiscated your weapon? Who, what, when, why and how? Inquiring minds, you know.

                          'If you want to be a hero, well just follow me.' - J. Lennon

                          by Clive all hat no horse Rodeo on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 08:14:58 AM PST

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  jeez (0+ / 0-)

                            you are not stupid, but dense

                            English your 3rd or 5th language?

                          •  Watch this video... (0+ / 0-)

                            http://www.democracynow.org/...

                            If you have any further questions, I have nothing for you.

                            'If you want to be a hero, well just follow me.' - J. Lennon

                            by Clive all hat no horse Rodeo on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 10:24:46 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Good work, standard Australian quality (0+ / 0-)

                            And if you think that link works, you're fairly stupid. But no surprises from down under. That plan might work here, but since the base situation is like comparing apples and kiwis.....oh, why bother.

                          •  So all you have is 'Take all the guns away!'... (0+ / 0-)

                            without any plausible mechanism to do so, and no willingness to listen to people who have successfully done so.

                            And yes, the link works just fine. Try clicking on it. It won't work by just looking at it.

                            ps. "That plan..."? Which plan is that? The one in the video? lol... busted.

                            'If you want to be a hero, well just follow me.' - J. Lennon

                            by Clive all hat no horse Rodeo on Wed Dec 19, 2012 at 07:19:11 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  You are illiterate (0+ / 0-)

                            No, the link does not work on a Mac running Mountain Lion.  The Donate screen can't be clicked and won't go away. You took the url from the wrong place. Scream, pout, yell, throw a wallaby, whatever, it still doesn't work, even when clicked, even when the source code is examined.  Looking at the source code, I can manage to see the link, but I've seen that link several times already, there's no point.

                            Now that you're back to repeating things said in the 1st couple of replies and pouting that YOUR way works we really are  done.

                            You will as is your wont or mental problem have the last word. Go at it.

                          •  Lol... mac/mountain lion... (0+ / 0-)

                            None of that sounds like my problem.

                            And yes, since Australia successfully dealt with gun massacres it would be prudent for America to look at it. Especially since you (personally) don't  seem to have a clue... besides 'Take ALL the guns away!'

                            'If you want to be a hero, well just follow me.' - J. Lennon

                            by Clive all hat no horse Rodeo on Wed Dec 19, 2012 at 08:03:06 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

  •  er...I'm a strong gun control advocate...but (7+ / 0-)

    your proposition is exactly why the bill of rights exists--to protect against.

    You've completely thrown not only the 2nd but the 4th amendment out the window (probably the 5th and 14th as well), (and maybe even the 3rd!!)

    Not to mention separation of powers and a host of other things in the constitution itself.

    •  so (0+ / 0-)

      suggest a workable way to get gun murders under 1,000 a year from the 10,000 they currently are. Something really has to be done.

      •  I refer you here, then: (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        fluffy

        This is an excellent article in The Economist.

        Here

        His conclusion is, unfortunately, bleak.

        The only way to do anything on the order of what you're proposing--and do it constitutionally, is to repeal the 2nd amendment.  That won't happen.  So aside from bullet regulation and assault weapon regulation (and maybe other limits, etc)--I'm not sure we are a culture that CAN rid ourselves of this scourge.

        And that's just the gun side of things--a full cultural shift would also include education, healthcare, mental health attention/care, and countless other things.

        •  that article perfectly sums up my feelings on this (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          fluffy

          I am no Gun Nut. I find that "we need it for the NEXT American Revolution" mindset to be childish at best. History has shown that an unarmed populace can revolt against tyrants just fine, thank you.

          But I long gave up on the idea that you can fix America's gun violence problem w/ piddly little shit like banning flash suppressors and folding stocks. Closing loopholes, deeper background checks, better enforcement, mental health reform - even the best feasible options ultimately nibble around the edges.

          "See? I'm not a racist! I have a black friend!"

          by TheHalfrican on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 09:01:42 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Superb link (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          bevenro

          I agree with every single point in that piece save one. I like a couple of guns. None of them handguns, but still guns. And that is a much more nuanced piece than my attempted swing of a baseball bat at the problem. (In my growing up culture, baseball balls were problem solvers, and while they can be fatal, it ain't easy and I don't recall any fatalities in my area from them.)

          The whole point is the situation is WAY beyond the let's sit with our tea and coffee and have a polite conversation about the problem. My solution might get noted but it sucks. Someone must be smart enough to find a path.

      •  You posted this comment after replying to me. (0+ / 0-)

        Did you even read what I said?

        Why don't you instead follow the Australian example of granting an amnesty for all newly illegal weapons, buy them from the owners at market prices and have them destroyed in a very public display.

        Put a tax on rich arseholes to pay for it and call it the "Protecting our Children Levy". Who in Congress is going to vote against protecting kids, especially after the latest horror?

        Anybody who still holds an illegal weapon after the amnesty faces very stiff prison time and a family-bankrupting fine. You know, a deterrent. Something which makes it not worth keeping the weapon.

        How did you miss all that?

        'If you want to be a hero, well just follow me.' - J. Lennon

        by Clive all hat no horse Rodeo on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 09:02:04 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yes I can read (0+ / 0-)

          Our problem is a couple of orders of magnitude more severe. And you also think our legislators could or would pass even a watered downed version of any bill that could be painted as an amnesty? Good luck.

  •  Utterly obscene trashing of every (5+ / 0-)

    democratic and liberal value in the name of an illusory safety.

    You propose that the President, with no legal authority, orders the military to violate the civil rights of millions of Americans.

    This is the action of a fascist military dictatorship;  not a democracy or a republic - and it would lead to a lot more than 10,000 dead if anyone were stupid enough to attempt it.

    •  fwiw THEY already think Obama is gonna do this (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      democrattotheend, fluffy

      of course.

      Just sign an executive order authorizing the confiscation of every privately-owned gun, no muss, no fuss. (As if most of DKos wouldn't be horrified by such a blatant shredding of the Constitution.)

      So fucking stupid. Oh well, I remember the days when I was convinced Bush was going to bring back The Draft for an invasion of North Korea, so I guess I can't judge their hate-fantasies too harshly....

      "See? I'm not a racist! I have a black friend!"

      by TheHalfrican on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 08:16:29 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Do a buy back. Probably could get all of them for (2+ / 0-)

    less than $10 billion.

    Shotguns and hunting rifles still legal.

  •  Well, at least other Kossacks get how dumb this is (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    debedb, fluffy

    I mean we all wanna "end the Drug War" right? Prohibition is stupid right? Good God, this would turn into a mash-up of Ruby Ridge & The Mexican Drug War. I mean really lol.

    Optimistically, I can imagine like a third of DKos bailing on this policy as soon as its announced, with another third turning on it once the bodies start piling up. "End the War on Handguns!" they'd say. lol

    If this was satirical jab @ well-intended-but-wildly-unfeasible Progressive responses to the tragedy, then good job Diarist! Needed the laugh....

    "See? I'm not a racist! I have a black friend!"

    by TheHalfrican on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 08:11:22 PM PST

  •  You can always leave the USA.... (0+ / 0-)

    ...and go to any number of countries where gun ownership is strictly regulated.

    I'm not saying love it or leave it. You are free to stay.

    But gun confiscation ain't gonna happen. Ever. Period. Zero chance. Any more than the Easter Bunny is gonna come over and give you a winning Powerball jackpot ticket. The Easter Bunny ain't gonna take everybody's heat, either.

    Our current basic law - the Constitution - forbids it.

    So go. Go to a gun-free nation. Or stay here, walk fast, and keep your head down, just like the rest of us.

  •  While we're at it (0+ / 0-)

    The military should make sure that everyone recycles.

  •  It wasn't a handgun this time, either. (0+ / 0-)

    It was an assault rifle, an M-4.  M-4s are designed for one thing and that's to kill people.   The military is the primary customer and it will be used in combat to kill enemy soldiers.  We need to renew the ban on private ownership of assault rifles.  And, to deal with handguns, ban magazines that can carry more than ten bullets.  These two small steps will make it a lot harder for a crazy to do the kind of damage we've seen lately.

    •  Red herring. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Justanothernyer

      The vast majority of gun fatalities in the US are not from 'assault rifles'.  Only a very few high profile killings.  So laws aimed just at specific 'weapon types' will stop those few media-saturated massacres, and leave us with pretty much the same 30000 dead Americans a year, just not generating any outrage or media coverage.

      I disagree with the author's proposed solution, but any legislation that wants to actually even seriously touch the numbers will have to address all firearms, not just 'specific types'.

  •  There would be no better way to trigger all of the (1+ / 0-)

    'he's coming for yer gunnnns' types into actually a wave of assaults on law enforcement and their fellow citizens.

    Bad solution.

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site