Skip to main content

We as a nation have been teaching our children well and when the means, guns, are there they can kill.

We are teaching our children well. What children see modeled, violence, particularly what they see in the media:  movies, TV and video games. Why these three? They are the most interactive with video game violence as the most immersive of the three.
One common characteristic in many of the mass shootings that we've seen all too frequently, is that the shooters were gamers.

In Paducah, Kentucky, fourteen-year-old Michael Carneal stole five guns from a neighbor's house and brought them to school in the trunk of his sister’s car. He then took one of the hand guns and fired eight shots at a student prayer group just as they were breaking up. Prior to stealing this weapon, he had never before shot an actual handgun. Of the eight shots he fired, Michael had eight hits on eight different kids. Five were head shots, the other three were upper torso. The results were three dead and one paralyzed for life.  Fortunately, it was a small caliber gun or the death toll would have been higher. According to the FBI, the average experienced and qualified law enforcement officer in an average shoot-out at an average range of about seven yards hits with less than one bullet in five. How could Michael acquire such killing ability?  Above all, what would allow him to commit such a horrific act?
Michael had never shot a real gun until the day before the shooting, he did however have a good deal of experience in a videogame.

Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, the Columbine High School students who murdered 13 people and wounded 23 in Littleton, before killing themselves, enjoyed playing the bloody video game Doom. Harris created a customized version of Doom with two shooters, extra weapons, unlimited ammunition, and victims who could not fight back—features that are eerily similar to aspects of the actual shootings.
There are many consequences of video (including TV, movie and videogame)
violence.  These include:
Aggression.  Viewing televised and video game violence can lead to increases in aggressive behavior and/or changes in attitudes and values favoring the use of aggression to solve conflicts.
Desensitization.  Extensive violence viewing may lead to decreased sensitivity to violence and a greater willingness to tolerate increasing levels of violence in society  

Adam was from what little we know was probably ASD (autism spectrum disorder), and what else we do not yet know, Those that are ASD are by nature obsessive, and Videogames are so very very immersive and they teach that it is OK to kill.
We teach our children well

Your Email has been sent.
You must add at least one tag to this diary before publishing it.

Add keywords that describe this diary. Separate multiple keywords with commas.
Tagging tips - Search For Tags - Browse For Tags


More Tagging tips:

A tag is a way to search for this diary. If someone is searching for "Barack Obama," is this a diary they'd be trying to find?

Use a person's full name, without any title. Senator Obama may become President Obama, and Michelle Obama might run for office.

If your diary covers an election or elected official, use election tags, which are generally the state abbreviation followed by the office. CA-01 is the first district House seat. CA-Sen covers both senate races. NY-GOV covers the New York governor's race.

Tags do not compound: that is, "education reform" is a completely different tag from "education". A tag like "reform" alone is probably not meaningful.

Consider if one or more of these tags fits your diary: Civil Rights, Community, Congress, Culture, Economy, Education, Elections, Energy, Environment, Health Care, International, Labor, Law, Media, Meta, National Security, Science, Transportation, or White House. If your diary is specific to a state, consider adding the state (California, Texas, etc). Keep in mind, though, that there are many wonderful and important diaries that don't fit in any of these tags. Don't worry if yours doesn't.

You can add a private note to this diary when hotlisting it:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from your hotlist?
Are you sure you want to remove your recommendation? You can only recommend a diary once, so you will not be able to re-recommend it afterwards.
Rescue this diary, and add a note:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from Rescue?
Choose where to republish this diary. The diary will be added to the queue for that group. Publish it from the queue to make it appear.

You must be a member of a group to use this feature.

Add a quick update to your diary without changing the diary itself:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary?
(The diary will be removed from the site and returned to your drafts for further editing.)
(The diary will be removed.)
Are you sure you want to save these changes to the published diary?

Comment Preferences

  •  Here is the thing (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    josephk, Nespolo

    English children watch the same movies, and play the same video games.

    They do not grow up and kill in any greater proportion than they ever did.

    I hope that the quality of debate will improve,
    but I fear we will remain Democrats.

    by twigg on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 08:03:12 AM PST

    •  The problems with this diary ... (0+ / 0-)

      Is the complete absence of any quality scientific data - in fact it only repeats two spurious anecdotal accounts (both Columbine and the Carneal case being associated with "video game violence" has been thoroughly debunked) - thus, metaphorically shooting itself in the foot!

      Does violent popular media have an influence on the attitudes of those that consume it?
       -- THAT is a valid question to ask.  This diary barely bothers to ask it - even worse though, is that it makes assertions without any evidence.

      For the most part, there is scant evidence of even correlation much less the causation that the diarist implies.

      However, I do think it a worthwhile question to ask and pursue through, You know - ACTUAL studies and evidence!

      "I want to keep them alive long enough that I can win them to Christ," - Rick Warren, Professional Greed Driven Scumbag

      by josephk on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 09:21:12 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Japan (0+ / 0-)

      Since this subject in the light of this trajedy is just getting out of control, I'll think I'll have to bring this up often this week... Japan has much more violent media and entertainment, and this includes games, not tomention America wouldn't have a game industry if it weren't for Japan, who revived the dieing form in 1985 with Nintendo's NES.

      Hell, Japan still owns two thirds of the video  game console market, SONY and Nintendo, and its through them that console exclusives thrive. Games like Uncharted are SONY proprietary and owned.

      Japan not only has anime, but the content in the anime even for younger folk, is more risque/violent than what S&Ps let in American television.

      And yet they are touted for their low murder rates throughout the weeked this week... why is that, you suppose?

      Ah... strict gun control laws!!! A little further than maybe even guntrol proponents might go for, but only cops are armed, and that's only in certain circumstances... which is why I don't get diaries and comments like this that are simply off base and targeting the wrong thing.

    •  Please don't forget that (0+ / 0-)

      Adults/Boy Scouts teaching 8-year-olds to fire guns accurately is obviously a huge problem and it's not a huge stretch that continued glorification or at least whitewashing of violence and murder cements the perceived acceptability of guns when those kids grow up. The idea kids might have heard first that guns are "for protection only" flies out the window when one is constantly primed by movies/tv shows/video games (aka "entertainment") which focus almost solely on murder.

      In most Western European countries, we've got extremely strict gun laws, in other words: they are banned and almost impossible to get as a civilian. Our gun crime rate reflects this. When you grow up in an environment where guns are not part and parcel of "coming of age", where you have probably never seen a gun in your life before when you're 18 (except for maybe an equipped policeman), were you don't hear people revering guns like they're sacred objects - your culture is absolutely different.

      Very young kids here rationalize and categorize the presence of guns differently because of this. Thinking of a gun owner and/or guns being present means you're either a) thinking about a very, very serious criminal or b) watching a movie (a US one, most likely).

  •  Spoken like someone (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Focusmarker, FG

    who has never played a video game in their entire life, and instead repeats Fox news "scare" points.

    Preposterous rubbish. Video games no more convey accuracy in shooting real guns than Guitar Hero conveys accuracy with a real guitar.

    "The future of man is not one billion of us fighting over limited resources on a soon-to-be dead planet. . .I won't go back into the cave for anyone."

    by Whimsical on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 08:11:06 AM PST

  •  I'm going to have to call horsecrap on this one. (0+ / 0-)

    If you expect me to believe that the muscle memory required to accurately fire a handgun can be trained through a mouse and keyboard in a videogame... no. Absolute horsecrap. There are millions of gamers out there that play every day with no violent tendancies in real life whatsoever, and a majority of killers that never spent time playing a game on a computer at all. People look for something, anything to blame in times of tragedy, and that's understandable. But to claim that the games taught them how to shoot and kill? Ridiculous. I've done some pretty insane sniping in some games, but to think I could hold up a rifle in the real world, aim it properly, account for the affects of gravity and wind, motion of the target, etc... no.

    You want real causuality? Look at the assault rifle ban lapsing. Look at some of the weakest gun control laws in the world. Look at the parents and what they're teaching (or not) their kids.

    You can't blame the pixels for this one.

    •  So violent games have no influence? (0+ / 0-)

      But everything else does?

      There are impressionable minds that don't have the reasoning capability that you do. They may have some of the worst parents, too, so, little or no guidance.

      •  Look at the "example" of the Kentucky kid. (0+ / 0-)

        Apparently he magically became a crack shot with a pistol because he played a computer game.

        Really, think about that. Think about what it entails to actually fire a pistol accurately. Hell, just being able to hold it properly, turn off the safety, aim and shoot, let alone with anything resembling accuracy, takes repetitive hands on experience. Muscle memory. You train your body to go through the motions to become accurate. You don't play Call of Duty and become special forces skilled in real life. That's like saying playing Top Gun trains you to fly an F14.

        •  I'm addressing the mindset (0+ / 0-)

          that contends there can be no entertainment without killing. The desensitization that occurs when kids witness thousands of deaths, real or pretend, over their formative periods. The studies that show children becoming more aggressive after watching violent tv shows. The lack of proper parenting when both parents have to work, not to mention the many dysfunctional households. And not to mention abuse and neglect.

    •  As it turns out, video games didn't teach him... (0+ / 0-)

      to shoot. It was his mother taking him to the gun range.

  •  And what's wrong with being able to shoot (0+ / 0-)

    accurately? Whether you learn to do it with a real gun or in a video game. Most video games actually are not very good for it anyway as the experience there is not realistic (no recoil etc.).

  •  Really? (0+ / 0-)

    I'm not going to argue that video games can push already disturbed kids over the edge. Hell, I've got a friend who played with his toddler by letting him sit in his lap while he played Halo, and the kid grew up thinking that shooting people was the only sort of play there was.

    However, the argument that video games teach kids to shoot is absolutely asinine. Holding a controller or a mouse and clicking a button is no more firearms training than doing the same thing is driver training, pilot training, or spaceship captain training.

  •  Ugh ... not another kneejerk diary... (0+ / 0-)

    As Whimsical points out, yet another diarist / commentator on the "evils" of video games, without knowing much of the subject matter, just hoping to skirt by with as little info as possible.

    The problem is gamers aren't opposed as to discussing this issue as non-gamers make their side out to be, the problem is there needs to be alot of education set forth before honest conversations go forward, and non-gamers have to learn what they are talking about before they debate, and there is other info to gleam, for example, I know nothing about this Michael Carneal kid, I might look into it, but since its the diarist who brought the kid up, its kinda encumbent for the diarist to post actuall facts from true news sources on the matter... your statement about him somehow "learning" how to fire guns dispite never having done so, from "a videogame" without even specifying which one exactly is very suspect to say the least, and comes off as conjecture.

    I know of no game that could teach the intricatcies of actually firing off a real, modern firearm, unless they've starting making guns with no recoil, and you press 'X' or square to fire it.

    As for your Columbine example... this is really where you prove to not know enough about the subject matter to even critisize it... I know the mainstrean media at the time tried to tie everything into their actions from games to Marilyn Mansion music, but I'm not sure if the media ever accurately tried to tie specific games to the case, and the one that you tried to, Doom, is not what you think it is, it's a sci-fi "shooter", not a military shooter like CoD, you play as a space marine (most sci-fi uses space marines going back to the Aliens movies) who gets sucked down into hell and have to "shoot" if you can even call it that by today's standards, demons you encounter trying to stop Hell from literally breaking loose.

    They even made a live action movie of it (not very good) star former wrestler The Rock.

    So maybe it teaches you to be a warrior for heaven??? How to kill demons and the undead? Or maybe its such an old game, came out in 1993, I find it hard to believe the Columbine kids were still playing it in what 98 or 99? The game could be classified as a 16-bit game, I think, at least graphically, and its kinda funny how you didn't bring up the usual kicking bag of Mortal Kombat from that area, though MK would have looked more realistic, graphics wise. Doom was nothing but sprites used in a polygonal way. Nothing realisitic, no "teaching of killing" anything, let alone actual demons. Weapons I believe were fictional/futuristic/non-existant.

    If you want to do your part to carry your weight in this debate, might I sujest finding a copy or demo of doom for your pc, and playing it atleat half an hour before passing judgement on a nearly 20 year old game?

    "Desensitization.  Extensive violence viewing may lead to decreased sensitivity to violence and a greater willingness to tolerate increasing levels of violence in society  "

    These two statements are not the same and are not even mutal corelations... those who suffer from post-traumatic stress are techincally "Desensitized" from violence, as for their own psychological protection... I could go on about it more but, maybe you might want to take studies into psychology before pretending to know any of it?

    "Adam was from what little we know was probably ASD (autism spectrum disorder), and what else we do not yet know, Those that are ASD are by nature obsessive"

    Wow... it also sounds like you take a snipe at those with autism as well... you do know many on KOS have Aspberger's Syndome, right?

    They may not take kindly to your stereotyping?

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site