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House Republicans present their "Plan B" position on the Fiscal Thingy, so you'll finally be able to see evidence at home on C-SPAN that something's happening, though the procedure is so convoluted, you'll likely have no idea why you're seeing what you're seeing. Oh, and it won't pass the Senate, either, so nevermind. Greg Dworkin joined us for another update from Newtown, and for an analysis of the latest polling on the issues swirling around the tragedy. Turns out the public is pretty well united behind some of the leading proposals for restrictions on assault-style weapons and accessories. So will we see progress, or not? Then a broad discussion about just why we might not. With all the talk about certain rights favored by conservatives being "God-given" or the like, would anyone give up their guns if the Constitution were somehow magically amended in a way that made such a thing possible? And if not, is what we're engaged in really a "debate" at all? More discussion of "constitutional hardball" ensued, including a number of illustrative examples which, taken together, show just how hard it can be to ever "settle" a game of hardball, without even getting into the extra-constitutional meta-issues surrounding gun rights and where people think they came from. Warning: heads may explode!

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Comment Preferences

  •  it is not currently a 'debate' (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    howabout

    It's more of a 2-sided stone wall. Each side feels it is correct and that the other side just isn't taking certain features of reality into account, while IDEALISM on both sides appears to be the reigning influence.

    Large capacity magazine control seems OK and doable.

    Closing all the loopholes which allow people to buy guns w/o a background check is pretty-well supported and, again, doable.

    I think some form of PSA/Public Awareness campaign is essential: Unsure of what to address but a mix of education about gun safety as well as messages about working things out rather then shooting people. If that seems like grasping at straws to some, that is exactly what it is.

    (I think it is OK to ask Americans to not shoot each other. (It would be awesome to the the GOP out supporting us shooting each other. That will help them in 2014)

    The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men.

    by xxdr zombiexx on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 10:02:50 AM PST

  •  Nobody is asking people to give up all guns. (0+ / 0-)

    The issue is making it more difficult for people to kill people with guns.

    •  No, they aren't (0+ / 0-)

      But even if they did, and they had the Constitution behind them in doing so, I'm wondering whether the people who love to go on and on about being "patriots" and loving the Constitution, etc., etc. would accept such a thing.

      I think we all know they wouldn't. The Constitution, and all of the rest of America, would be "wrong." And they'd be "right" to shoot us.

      I suspect they're not participating in the same game as the rest of us.

  •  I'm not sure what this says about me, (0+ / 0-)

    but I laugh out loud every single time the musical cues are played (and using that bit for Plan B -- I think of it as Sad Clown music, for some reason -- is brilliant). It never gets old for me, maybe because I'm weird. I don't know. Whatever... keep it up! Laughing is my preferred way of coping ;-)

  •  What gun debate? (0+ / 0-)

    If its not gone already, due to the fiscal cliff kabuki, it soon will be.

  •  I agree but... (0+ / 0-)

    David, I agree that the gun nuts would not accept the repeal of the Second Amendment, and would not feel beholden to the new laws, but I can't say (and since we are talking a magical scenario) that I would be exactly thrilled if the First Amendment were repealed.  In fact, I would probably seriously consider insurrection in such a situation.  I consider the right to free expression inviolable, and as close to anything I would call a God-given right (agnostic though I am).  I mean, it's so ridiculous that guns are equal to speech for these people, but I kind of see where they're coming from.  They're bonkers, sure.  But if you consider a law unjust, following that law is just accepting injustice.

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