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Misterwade is first to report that House Likely to Vote on Senate Bill. CNN reports that the House Republican leadership has decided to let the vote on the Senate bill to resolve the "fiscal cliff" crisis come up for a straight up-or-down vote, perhaps as early as 9:00 p.m. tonight.

Here are some more details if you are interested. MarketWatch reports:

House to vote on Senate fiscal cliff deal


LOS ANGELES (MarketWatch) -- The U.S. House of Representatives plans to offer a straight up-or-down vote Tuesday night on the Senate-approved compromise to undo the fiscal cliff of austerity measures which began taking effect in the new year, reports said. Prospects for passage remained uncertain, but such a vote would mark a step back from a plan Republicans voiced earlier to amend the Senate bill, a move which might have sunk the deal. The House vote was likely to occur sometime after 9 p.m. Eastern time, CNN and The Wall Street Journal reported separately.

House could vote Tuesday on Senate cliff deal

House Republicans reversed course Tuesday evening and charted a course toward likely passage of the bipartisan agreement struck in the Senate to avoid the worst effects of the “fiscal cliff,’’setting up a late-night vote to complete a dramatic day in which the critical legislation appeared to be endangered for several hours.

In a second meeting with GOP members Tuesday, House Speaker John A. Boehner (R-Ohio) and Majority Leader Eric I. Cantor (R-Va.) outlined the options for handling the Senate plan while explaining the high “risk” involved with approving a different bill that might die in the other chamber, according to lawmakers exiting the evening session. Such an outcome could make the House GOP the public face of a failed effort to avert automatic tax hikes and spending cuts and possibly cause a public outcry as taxes on every American worker would jump. ...

As lawmakers left the meeting, a broad consensus seemed to be emerging that Boehner’s team should just bring up the Senate bill, negotiated by Vice President Biden and Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.), for a vote, rather than try to amend a large package of roughly $330 billion in spending cuts to accompany the bill back across the Capitol for an uncertain fate.

Grover Norquist has given his full endorsement as it accomplishes a substantial advance of his goals to keep government spending limited to 18% of GDP, and lays the foundation for substantial cuts ahead in the debt-ceiling limit in the next two months. This is a remarkable deal for the G.O.P. and they would be off their rockers not to grab it and move on to the debt-ceiling negotiation without the Democrats having this bargaining lever over them any longer.  

My feeling is that we could have, and should have, only included a two-year extension of the Bush tax cuts here, as we now are locking in 88% of the Bush level tax cuts that will limit tax revenue to 18% of GDP while spending is now at 23% of GDP.  This is a long, long way down. I'm am looking forward to hearing some credible Democrat explain how we expect to sustain anything remotely close to current Democratic social spending level with tax revenues at only 18% of GDP. But, I'm not a member of Congress so my vote doesn't count. (Did I mention this before?)

5:45 PM PT:

CBS News issues the most definitive report so far in House to vote on "fiscal cliff" tonight Updated at 8:05 p.m. ET

The House will hold a straight vote on the "fiscal cliff" bill passed by the Senate overnight - a major step in finally averting several effects of the "cliff."

If the bill passes the House, it moves on to President Obama for his signature, ending weeks of fighting about how to deal with the tax hikes and spending cuts that began hitting the country today.

It wasn't easy getting to this point today in the House. After meeting with the Republican conference and listening to members' concerns, House Speaker John Boehner presented them with two options, a GOP leadership aide said: The first option would be to offer an amendment to the Senate bill that would add a $323 billion package of spending cuts. If GOP leaders couldn't muster enough support for the amendment idea, the second option would be to vote on the Senate bill as-is.-tonight/

6:02 PM PT: Wolf Blitzer has just broken into the Piers Morgan's timeslot to report live on the upcoming House floor vote which he says he expected to occur this hour.  The debate has started.

CNN is now announcing that the actual vote will not occur until 11;15 ET because so many House Reps want to give speeches about it.


7:44 PM PT: The vote on the House floor has started and is scheduled for 15 minutes.

12.29 minute left.  So far 90 for with 50 against.  If these ratios hold up it looks like it will pass with mostly Democratic votes.

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Comment Preferences

  •  You Won't Hear It nt (7+ / 0-)

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 05:44:29 PM PST

    •  Well if we have no plausible rationale for why (10+ / 0-)

      this bill will not lead to the evisceration of our New Deal and Great Society programs do you think we should try to rally a grass roots campaign to get President Obama to veto it?

      Oh wait...  I'm so confused! And, depressed. This may be the most depressing New Years Eve day in my life.

      I can barely imagine the magnitude of the human suffering and the potential we seem to be losing today.  

      I wish I knew what our Democratic leadership folks are thinking.

      The means is the ends in the process of becoming. - Mahatma Gandhi

      by HoundDog on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 05:57:16 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  This is what is at stake: (5+ / 0-)

        Fact Sheet: The Tax Agreement: A Victory for Middle-Class Families and the Economy

        At this make or break moment for the middle class, the President achieved a bipartisan solution that keeps income taxes low for the middle class and grows the economy. For the first time in 20 years, Congress will have acted on a bipartisan basis to vote for significant new revenue. This means millionaires and billionaires will pay their fair share to reduce the deficit through a combination of permanent tax rate increases and reduced tax benefits. And this agreement ensures that we can continue to make investments in education, clean energy, and manufacturing that create jobs and strengthen the middle class.

        In 2011, the President cut spending. In 2012, he kept his promise of asking the wealthiest 2 percent of Americans to pay more while protecting 98 percent of families and 97 percent of small businesses from any income tax increase—raising $620 billion in revenue. As we move forward to address our ongoing fiscal challenges, both spending cuts and continuing to ask the wealthy to do a little more will be part of a balanced approach. It is critical for our economy and future generations that we reduce the deficit. We cannot keep racking up this debt on our kids. And the President looks forward to working with Republicans to reduce the deficit in a balanced and bipartisan way.

        "...The nature of our democracy and the nature of our politics is to marry principle to a political process that means you don't get 100 percent of what you want." President Obama, March 2011.

        by Aliosman on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 06:01:09 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  How soon will he announce how he plans to cut (13+ / 0-)

          government spending by 22%.  Because that is the approximate number he will need with tax revenues at 18% of GDP.  It is currently 23% of GDP.

          John Boehner has said any dollar of debt ceiling extension will come at a cost of a dollar of spending reduction, other than military spending.  This is $1.2 trillion/year.  Please not that a lot of these other numbers of in 10 year traunches.

          We cannot keep racking up this debt on our kids. And the President looks forward to working with Republicans to reduce the deficit in a balanced and bipartisan way.
          Do people realize what this means in terms of the magnitude of government spending reductions required?

          On New Years Eve  President announced that he expect further budget balancing efforts to come equally from revenue expansion and cuts to spending. This infuriated Republicans until they could spread the word that he no longer has much bargaining power to ask for anything.

          The House controls the budget initiation, and the debt ceiling. They will issue their plan and then dare the President to shut down the government.  Armando wrote a compelling post suggesting that when you play chicken with a deranged person you will always lose.

          What is our plan for winning this battle?  

          The means is the ends in the process of becoming. - Mahatma Gandhi

          by HoundDog on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 06:09:49 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  After 2014 when the Afghan War wanes: (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Lujane, grrr

            Part of a balanced process of deficit reduction and stronger growth.

            Strengthens our recovery next year by cutting taxes for the middle-class:
            The independent, non-partisan Congressional Budget Office (CBO) estimated that allowing the full effect of the “fiscal cliff” would cause our economy to enter a recession and actually shrink next year primarily as a result of higher taxes on the middle class and across-the-board spending cuts. The final agreement prevents taxes from rising on the middle class and delays the across-the-board “sequester.” 
            Temporary measures to support consumer spending and business investment:
            Extending unemployment insurance is one of the more effective ways to encourage consumer spending. And bonus depreciation will give companies incentives to invest. 
            Provides greater economic certainty for families and businesses:
            The agreement will make it easier for families and businesses to plan and will help our economy grow. 
            Cuts the deficit and reduces the debt as a share of the economy over the next five years:
            Since April last year, the President has signed into law 1.7 trillion in deficit reduction, including $700 billion in spending cuts from enacted appropriations bills in 2011 and 2012, and $1 trillion in the Budget Control Act. This tax agreement not only further reduces the deficit, but raises $620 in new revenue from high-income households. Together with a strengthening economy these steps will bring down the deficit as a share of the economy over the next five years. 
            Establishes a foundation for additional balanced, pro-growth deficit reduction through tax and entitlement reform:
            The agreement leaves substantial scope for reducing tax expenditures for high-income households, reforming corporate taxes to broaden the base and cut the rate to make America more competitive, and to take further steps to reform entitlements.

            "...The nature of our democracy and the nature of our politics is to marry principle to a political process that means you don't get 100 percent of what you want." President Obama, March 2011.

            by Aliosman on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 06:27:01 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  To argue that this bill is a breakthrough in (11+ / 0-)

              reducing deficits and debts is quite a bit of a stretch Aliosman.

              President Obama ran of the promise of raising revenue by $1.6 trillion and when John Boehner offered $800 billion our President scoffed at this correctly pointing out that this was totally insufficient to reduce deficits and would require too much cut to social spending as a consequence.

              We now are accepting $600 to $700 billion depending on how you count. I believe the President was more accurate in his first position.

              My understanding is that sequestration cuts have only been delayed by two months, (or is it 90 days.) That's only so that the House Republicans can replace the 50% cuts to the military spending onto social programs, which I don't see how we will now stop.  This is not a victory for reducing cuts, only delaying it so it can be concentrated unfairly on social spending.)

              Come back in 90 days and tell me if the actual cuts we end up with are not vastly worse and less progressive than the sequestration cuts.  And, they will have the same austerity bomb affect on our economy that you are celebrating we avoided.

              We also will have the counter-stimulative affect of the 2% increase in FICA taxes which is an additional impact on our economy that will now be the same as the CBO report you site.

              The other part of the CBO report on this worst case "off the cliff" scenario was that after two quarter of recession, with some of the same cuts we will still now have, going off the cliff with the 2%  of GDP and reduced spending, along with winding down the wars came very close to balancing the budget.  

              If memory serves me correctly that CBO report estimated that GDP growth would roar back to 5% by 2016 as improved investor and consumer confidence revitalized our economy.

              But by locking in these tax cuts we give up nearly any possibility of balancing the budget given GOP opposition to any further increases in revenues.  

              And the staggering austerity bomb consequence of additional reductions to government spending the GOP intends to extract from our hides is going to most likely cause worse recessions.

              When a complete side-by-side CBO scoring come out comparing the scenario of this deal, to the pure going off the cliff case I will be surprised if it not worse on most measures.

              But, "our" plan was not ever the pure "going off the cliff" case but using that threat to extract major concessions from the GOP such as a two year extension of the debt-ceiling.

              I was just over at RedState and one of their top front pagers conceded that we would have won the extension of unemployment benefits,  $250,000 tax cut, Medicare Doctors fix,  and AMT adjustment without any concessions, as they politics of if.  The GOP would have given us concession for the AMT.

              The means is the ends in the process of becoming. - Mahatma Gandhi

              by HoundDog on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 06:53:08 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

          •  Hmmm ... (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            ladybug53, grrr, HoundDog

            Are you making the assumption that GDP will be static?

            The reason that we have the mismatch between spending and revenue is:

            a) Increased outlays for unemployment, foodstamps and other stabilizers

            b) Reduced revenue

            I don't see anywhere that the President says he'll have a balanced budget this year or next ...

            As far as negotiation strategy is concerned, you ask:

            The House controls the budget initiation, and the debt ceiling. They will issue their plan and then dare the President to shut down the government.  Armando wrote a compelling post suggesting that when you play chicken with a deranged person you will always lose.

            What is our plan for winning this battle?  

            I am not a political strategy genius like you, Armando, Kos or MoT. But I would submit noobish thoughts from me:

            First, as PBO has said, don't negotiate on the Debt Ceiling.

             My thought is to kick the can down the road and tie it up in legal knots -- Just say, for instance, "I have authorized the Treasury to print 20 One Trillion Platinum coins for deposit with the Fed so that no one can question the full credit of the US." (This is fully legit - tho' a bit mcguyverish). Let them sue ... that will delay the whole drama till next year when many R's are up for election.

            Reach out to Republican constituencies that will be hit hard if there is no deal:
            - Wall Street esp. the $15+ Trillion Bond market
            - Defense Sector
            - Corporates (due to recessionary fears)
            - Old people (as SS checks would cease ...

            Peel off Republicans who are obliged to the above constituencies, plus those that will retire in 2014 and those  that are in Obama voting constituencies. Go the discharge petition route ... we need only 20 Republicans that way.

            Overall, stop treating 233 Republicans as one "deranged individual". When you stereotype and demonize, you miss many opportunities to "divide and conquer".

            My thought is that Boehner is losing the ability to control his guys ... could not bring Plan B up for a vote; could not amend and send back the Senate proposal tonight. I believe that within 2 years we could see the first successful discharge petition that breaks the Republican ranks.

            •  Well, for someone who claims to be "noobish" you (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Bronxist

              seem to have a pretty good strategy here which I would be delighted if President Obama pursued as it would indicated he had decided to fight for current level of government spending.

              But, his legal advisors already leaked that they advised him that using the Platinum Sovereign Coin act to intentional over-ride House spending limits would be unconstitutional, so he will not pursue it.

              But, I like our idea of using it to create legal knots and delays to play hardball but we haven't seen anything like this personality from Obama, but rather the opposite.

              Two arguments could be used on the constitutional issues, one of which President Obama mentioned in his speech tonight that made me hopeful of some kind of scenario similar to what you propose.

              The U.S. Constitution also declares that the U.S. Debt shall be sacrosanct and the debt shall not be defaulted on, giving President Obama not just the compelling interest to protect the financial integrity of our country, but the legal obligation to to so, perhaps bolstering the PSC (0r is it PCS?) option.

              Today President Obama said he will not negotiate over the debt incurred by Congress' past spending authoriztions. This is a second powerful argument refuting the claim that by using his authority to issue sovereign coins to keep government spending woudl be an abrogation of Congressional budget autthority.  Congress already authorized that spending.

              But, by that same argument I could imagine that the President could argue that the debt-ceiling limit itself  is unconstitutional, which may be more direct.  Just refuse to stop spending.  

              If the President does tries either of these, or any variation of something else remotely similar I'll support it.

              But, today I had no idea waht he was talking about when he said he will not negotiate over the debt-ceiling.  What is the other option is is referring to? I'd be surprising if it is either of these, but we'll see soon enough I guess.

              Overall, stop treating 233 Republicans as one "deranged individual". When you stereotype and demonize, you miss many opportunities to "divide and conquer".
              You make a good point here, I don't actually think of them as one clumpy agent this was just a rhetorical oversimplification as I am tired and depressed, frustrated, disappointed, and baffled.  A combination combination of moods I do not like to have all at once.

              I wil be delighted to support any campaign we can  find  to peel off 25 or 26 Republicans for each and every one of the next 10 to 20 years of debt-ceiling crisis we have rather than slash our New Deal and Great Society programs as the GOP has announced intentions of doing.

              President Obama will probably blast the GOP during the State of Union address and he can be one tremendously powerful orator when he gets his danger up.

              I just wish he had worked up this kind of lather over the last year, so we wouldn't be in such a weakened and vulnerable position.

              Happy New Year Bronxist.  It's been fun talking with you.  

              Also,  

              The means is the ends in the process of becoming. - Mahatma Gandhi

              by HoundDog on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 09:45:38 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Thanks HoundDog ... (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                HoundDog
                But, his legal advisors already leaked that they advised him that using the Platinum Sovereign Coin act to intentional over-ride House spending limits would be unconstitutional, so he will not pursue it.
                Let's be consistent in out trust/distrust of Obama. Either he means it when he says he'll not negotiate on the ceiling, or he could go back and use the platinum or some other legal maneuver at the last minute.

                In any event, he'll be foolish to show his cards till the Wall St. Journal runs an editorial begging him to act!

              •  BTW .. (0+ / 0-)

                We got 85 R votes from the house ... many many more than I thought given vehement opposition from most conservative outlets.

                Those 85 would be a good place to start to peel off ...

                (We only lost 15 Ds ... )

        •  And Democrats now tout (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          ferg, blueoasis, HoundDog

          low income tax rates as being the key to a strong economy. Never will I get that. Still, forward into the future and all that.

      •  I expect what they are thinking is something (11+ / 0-)

        like this: "This will satisfy the typical low-information voter, while making our billionaire overlords, very, very, very happy.

        To put the torture behind us is, inevitably, to put it in front of us.

        by UntimelyRippd on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 06:20:16 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yes, but the "malarchy" is going to hit the fan (6+ / 0-)

          when we come to the debt ceiling concessions.

          When Democrats get a complete scoring on what it means to cap government revenue at 18% of GDP I believe we will be collectively dumbfounded.

          I don't believe the House GOP will agree to any further expansions of tax revenue now.

          Eventually, after cuts to Medicare, Medicaid, food stamps, NSF, Amtrak, etc add up and suffering becomes more widespread we may be able to win back control of the House but given gerrymandering it may take more than a few more election cycles.  Maybe by 2018 or 2020.  

          But, its going to be a long, long way down on the yearly ritual of painful debt-limit cuts.

          We shall see what its like almost immediately after this vote.

          Most Republicans I've read expect chained CPI, raising the Medicare Age, and additional cut to add up to $1.2 trillion for this first one year extension.  This is going to be a staggering level of cuts.

          The means is the ends in the process of becoming. - Mahatma Gandhi

          by HoundDog on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 06:30:30 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  BUT cuts do not automajickly take place (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            grrr

            the dems would have to agree to each cut. AND they don't have to do it. I know it would mean deficit spending but that would be good while we are at less than optimal employment.

            American Television is a vast sea of stupid. -xxdr zombiexx

            by glitterscale on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 06:43:07 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  They Can Be Counted On To Capitulate (4+ / 0-)

              One of the major reasons why we study history is.to understand patterns in cultural and social behaviour.  People who can read can check the history of the Blue Dogs since Reagan.  It isn't pretty.

              Newt 2012. Sociopath, adulterer, hypocrite, Republican.

              by tikkun on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 07:07:56 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

            •  I've supported deficit spending every sense the (4+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              bronte17, ferg, blueoasis, glitterscale

              irresponsible Bush tax cuts destroyed the successful Clinton surpluses.  BTW Grover Norquest was just on Blitzer gleefully gloating that Democrats have just repudiated our last 12 years of opposition to these by locking in 88% them permanently.  Something neither Reagan nor Bush were able to do.

              This will have a direct consequence on social spending glitterscale.

              So how do you thing it is going to play out when the GOP refuses to extend the debt ceiling unless the Democrats agree to dollar for dollar reduction to government spending that are not in defense?

              This will be like what Armando called playing chicken with a deranged person. (He used other language.)

              The means is the ends in the process of becoming. - Mahatma Gandhi

              by HoundDog on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 07:19:10 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

            •  Yeah, but funding doesn't occur (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              glitterscale

              automatically, either.  The GOP is perfectly willing to shutdown the government to get the cuts they want.  I think I read that Obama won a total of five of the current GOP House districts.  There were only a handful of these House GOP members that won with less than 60%.  Unlike 1995 this group has no real fear of voter retailiation.  Plus, they will know that it is virtually impossible for them to lose seats in an opposing president's second midterm.

              Chained CPI is just table stakes for what the Dems will have to give up to avoid a default and a government shutdown in 2013.  And, now that Obama has basically put the thin edge of the wedge in the door (Offering chained CPI), all entitlements will be on the table.

              We are about to see history in the making.  We are about to see the biggest (and repeated) series of policy defeats of a president (a president that is virtually unbeatable at the ballot box) in presidential history.

          •  And then of course (4+ / 0-)

            Obama has simply reduced the deficit he inherited EACH YEAR of his term, as noted here, that pesky fact that the GOP despises. Despite all their efforts to sabotage recovery and make him a 1 term President, the man has cut the deficit ($200billion last year alone.)

            Just sayin.

            Shalom.

            "God has given wine to gladden the hearts of people." Psalm 104:15

            by WineRev on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 07:09:21 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  at what cost to the safety net (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              blueoasis

              and to what can be accomplished in the future?  That's what I'm really concerned about ... and we won't have than answer for sure, for the next 60 days.  They're already calling it "March Madness" on MSNBC.  And that's exactly what it will be, too. :-/

              How is taking a hundred dollars worth of food from hungry kids or from old poor sick people equal to taking a hundred dollars from billionaires? -- howabout, 19 Dec 2012

              by billlaurelMD on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 07:54:38 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

            •  Why do they need a GOP president (0+ / 0-)

              when they have a Dem president who made the Bush Tax Cuts for 99% of Americans permanent.  That was GWB's wet dream.  And, the same Dem president offered up SS benefit cuts for deficit reduction.

              They said only Nixon could go to China.  Never more accurate than right now....

      •  You really are confused (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        blueoasis, qofdisks

        since new year's eve was yesterday.

        Both parties wanted this, face it.  The Democratic leadership is not necessarily our friends.

        The sleep of reason brings forth monsters. --Goya

        by MadScientist on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 07:54:52 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  House of Representatives Live on C-SPAN (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Compost On The Weeds

      It is a terrible thing to see and have no vision. ~ Helen Keller

      by Pam from Calif on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 07:30:45 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  I agree with everyone. (24+ / 0-)

    I'm so damned confused.

    Liberals: Taking crap for being right since before you were born. - Driftglass (and the amazing Professional Left Podcast at http://professionalleft.blogspot.com/)

    by briefer on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 05:49:36 PM PST

  •  We're watching NCIS. (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    hester, 3goldens, HoundDog, rk2

    Not worth switching to CSPAN. They will do what they will do.

    "This is NOT what I thought I'd be when I grew up."

    by itzik shpitzik on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 05:50:00 PM PST

    •  ncis is all reruns 2nite. seen 'em all. lucky u (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      itzik shpitzik, HoundDog

      "Say little, do much" (Pirkei Avot 1:15)

      by hester on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 05:52:55 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  As I get older or something, I don't remember... (7+ / 0-)

        ...whether I've seen it before until maybe halway through. It's still better than watching Boehner reruns, no?

        "This is NOT what I thought I'd be when I grew up."

        by itzik shpitzik on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 05:55:33 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  LOL I know the feeling itzik I've watched certain (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          itzik shpitzik, hester, JayRaye

          episode of Columbo, NCIS, and other show many times.

          When my ex-wife's mother developed a progressive dementia she used to love watching exactly the same video tape over and over and was surprised at delighted at the the ending every week.

          We thought it was sad and funny at the time. But, now I know exactly how see felt. Even if you mostly remember how things turn out, there is something comforting and entertaining to see the good guys win, and justice prevail.

          Such as relief from the depressing way things actually seem to occur these days in reality.

          The means is the ends in the process of becoming. - Mahatma Gandhi

          by HoundDog on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 06:14:14 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  I think more should watch CSPAN (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Chi

      How many do?  What a crazy wild system we have.  I think it's important to watch the process, especially those that rarely do.  I grew up with it and value the opportunity to view it in real time. It is not always pretty and pretty enraging at times but, it is what we have.

      Our "democracy" is an amazing experiment in human kind.  (quotes because regardless, the money in the system has stolen the original intent of democracy) Such a broad and diverse nation trying to work out our differences in such an arcane and hallowed venue.  Sometimes it simply makes my mind hurt.

  •  What percentage would 250,000 have been of the (5+ / 0-)

    Bush tax cuts?

    President Obama said he would not raise taxes on people making less than 250 thousand. He did not say he would not lower taxes on people making above 250 thousand. That was just his opening offer. Some Democrats have said from the beginning 250 thousand was too low a limit.

    Brand new favorite RSS feed of Daily Kos Radio Podcasts http://kagrox.libsyn.com/rss
    Jobs, Jobs, Jobs

    by We Won on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 05:50:27 PM PST

    •  I've been watching tv pretty much all day (8+ / 0-)

      following the fiscal crisis stuff.

      What I noticed were pundits pretty much ridiculing the left for their temper outbursts over the $400,000 hike. The pundits sounded like sound intelligent democrats for the most part. These same pundits put the blame squarely on the Republicans for walking away from any deal with President Obama weeks ago.

      The left is losing respect year by year because of their unwillingness to support President Obama during his negotiations when compromises are needed.

      This wasn't a cave. It was a normal compromise and considering the catastrophe which would have come if the Senate didn't come up with a bill, this $150,000 hike was nothing in comparison.

    •  Yeah, starting from a point more aggressive (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Sylv, Superribbie, RationalistSF

      than their actual deal limits.  That's what many at this site yelled at Obama and the Congressional Democrats to do after the prior budget fight with House Republicans.

      So, our side did that.  $250K was the starting gambit, not the internal limit on what would be acceptable for the deal to be made.  And, it was only one aspect of this overall play.

      Yet, much hay is being made over how the $250K is otherwise sacred and couldn't be dialed back in negotiations.  As if that's how negotiations work.

      How is it even possible to say that a budget agreement now will last forever, as well?  Seems that debate and change is part of the nature in budget talks, so none of this is truly cement forevermore.

      "So, please stay where you are. Don't move and don't panic. Don't take off your shoes! Jobs is on the way."

      by wader on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 06:05:49 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  The fact that you, or anyone else, is talking (6+ / 0-)

        about the 250K vs 400K limit is the best evidence there is of how completely we've been played, because that is chickenfeed compared to the soon-to-be-permanent cuts in the capital gains and estate taxes.

        To put the torture behind us is, inevitably, to put it in front of us.

        by UntimelyRippd on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 06:23:20 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  the estate tax sould have been at 45 or 50% (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          wader, Chi

          with an exemption or Joint marital credit on let's say around 3 million. IMHO

        •  You may be assuming something, though (0+ / 0-)

          If you're talking about this, I don't view it as "permanent."  Sure, it'll be around for awhile, but nothing in our budget is "permanent" while parties change hands and tactics over time, IMHO.

          The estate tax has been off the mark for awhile - I wanted it down to at least $1M, not the $5M mark it's staying near.

          "So, please stay where you are. Don't move and don't panic. Don't take off your shoes! Jobs is on the way."

          by wader on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 06:38:19 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  It's permament (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            wader

            No republican voted to raise taxes today.  Tax rates had already reverted to the higher level.  The House and Senate voted for a tax cut, just not on the highest bracket.  Bush needed reconciliation to do it.  This week, it was passed by the majority of Dems in both houses (guessing that will be the case in the House).

            The GOP will never vote for, or permit a vote for, a tax increase.  Ever.  

            But, I fully expect the higher end rates and cap gains rates to be lowered again the day the GOP has the White House and both houses of congress....which could be as early as 2016.

            We disagree on the estate tax.  Despite the fact that my estate will never be worth $5M, I personally find inheritance taxes to be unfair and unconstitutional.  The money was already taxed, and nobody has a right to confiscate part of it just because the owner of it has died.

            •  Semantics and PR, IMHO (0+ / 0-)

              We just raised taxes and will press to do it again, because the use of increased revenues will hopefully turn into a compelling desire for more from portions of the electorate who benefit.

              Else, we'll fail in the trying.

              I feel that the Republicans will either lead us fully into debt-ridden Hell of their design or we'll slowly pull out . . . decades from now.  Anything that turns their 30 years of momentum around quickly would be on the order of responding to a major disaster in their ranks, and I haven't seen that happening yet.

              Also digging Meteor Blades' current late-night post on how California was attacking the process and not the positions of Republicans to turn things around . . . though, it involved a ton a feet-on-the-ground, as well.

              "So, please stay where you are. Don't move and don't panic. Don't take off your shoes! Jobs is on the way."

              by wader on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 09:47:10 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

    •  The actual percentage difference between the (7+ / 0-)

      $250,000 threshold, and the $400,000 threshold is not the most significant difference in this case We Won.  

      It is pretty close to offset by some of the goodies we picked up.

      The issue is timing and negotiating leverage.

      My understanding of what had been "our"progressive plan was that the threat of the expiration of the entire Bush tax cuts would be used to gain other tax revenue that would be more progressive -- measured in trillions.

      For example if we had combined Mitt Romney's alternative suggestion of a cap on all income tax deductions, over some amount with the $250,000, and closing tax loopholes for corporations.  Romney's threshold was $25,000, but it was for a substitute for any other tax increases.

      We don't need to get revenues all the up to 23% as we can wind down wars, and get some if the economy improves but we do probably need 21% of GDP.  

      My understanding is that the whole Bush tax package was worth about 2% of GDP well the way there if traded for more progressive taxation.

      And, it was automatic so we did not need GOP permission, so a very powerful negotiating tool.

      Now it will be gone soon, and all the cards seem to be GOP hands.

      Oh goodness Grover Norquist is on Blitzer gloating about the staggering reversal of Democrats on the Bush tax cuts.  

      I think I might be ill.

      The means is the ends in the process of becoming. - Mahatma Gandhi

      by HoundDog on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 06:22:47 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  If this passes (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        joanneleon, blueoasis, HoundDog

        Boehner's going to look like a genius.

      •  Hound Dog..this whole thing is confusing (5+ / 0-)

        First, many economists have said going over the fiscal cliff would hurt the already fragile economy. That means even more people out of work. That's very bad. That's a reason I don't want us going over the fiscal cliff.

        Also, I felt we got unemployment and the E.I.C extended which are vital to millions.

        I do understand your point that Republicans will be vicious on the debt ceiling negotiations. President Obama and the Democrats care about the country. They understand what experts say - we can't go over the cliff and can't default on the national debt. The Republicans don't care about America. They care about the wealthy.

        That's why Democrats are open to compromise - they care. We don't want bad things to happen to people or our country.

        Could there be additional revenues down the road? If Americans are willing to fight to preserve some things?

        Also, look at how much tax base corporations have shifted overseas by sending both manufacturing and service jobs abroad. That's a lot of revenue if we can bring that back here.  

        As a member of Courtesy Kos, I am dedicated to civility and respect for all kossacks, regardless of their opinions, affiliations, or cliques.

        by joedemocrat on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 06:41:07 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yes, it is very complex joedemocrat. And, I don't (5+ / 0-)

          claim to be a supercomputer that has any special ability understand such complexity.

          Yes, going off the cliff would have hurt the economy in the short terms The CBO scoring predicted two quarters of mild recession as the combined impact of the Bush tax cuts, and automatic sequestration, the return of FISA withholding etc, took their toll.

          But, it also pretty much solve the budge deficit, when combined with winding down the wars so the rest of that CBO report that few discuss was that the GDP roared back to 5% annual growth rates by (I think it was) 2016.

          But, we have not eliminated the sequestration cuts, only delayed them for a few months, mostly so the House GOP can substitute social spending cuts for the more balance 50% shared by the military in sequestration.

          But, these will have the same austerity bomb affect as before, unless we somehow convince the GOP to reverse their plans.  But we no longer have negotiating leverage.

          Go over an check out RedState.  One of their top front pagers notes we could have won the unemployment extensions, Medicare doctors fix, and R250,000 on their merits because of the terrible politics for the GOP of opposing theme.

          But, perhaps, the same logic suggests that the House GOP will voluntarily step back from their demand of a dollar spending cut for each dollar of debt extension.  

          This must be what Obama and Biden expect or why else would they have given away so much now?  

          Let's here is State of the Union and see if he can appeal to the common sense and sense of "fair play" by the House GOP.

          When the dust settles and we see clearer side-by-side comparisons of the options and consequences I think we will find it sobering.  But the media talking heads seem clueless on these details.

          We will see soon enough.  And, there doesn't seem to be anything we can do about it, so we might as well not worry about it now I guess.  

          I just feel so sad for the poor, the elderly, the sick, the young of the next generations who will be paying the price of the upcoming reductions of government spending.

          Because ultimately unless our country and the right-wing chance our assumptions about running up exponential debt government spending is going to have to approach tax revenues.

          I"m not a deficit hawk by the way.  I agree with Krugman, ,Stiglitz, Reich, and others who believe jobs is our key problem and we need more stimulus which seem less likely now as well.

          I'm not averse to running 2% to 3% continuous inflation as long as bond holders and savers are willing to continue to go along with it.  

          But, with the rabid anti-debt ideology of the right and their now unimpeded control of the debt limit, I don't see we have much leverage.

          The means is the ends in the process of becoming. - Mahatma Gandhi

          by HoundDog on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 07:12:01 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  The whole problem is (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            CoExistNow, HoundDog

            through political terrorism, the GOP has us between a rock and a hard place. There is no good answer..

            I don't see how we get through both the fiscal cliff and the debt ceiling without some pain. We just have to try and minimize it. The Republicans are going to use the debt ceiling to extract as many social spending cuts as they possibly can, regardless of what happens with the fiscal cliff. They have never liked Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, unemployment benefits, or any social programs.

            I don't think the Republicans really care about the Bush tax cuts for people who make under $50,000. That's not been leverage for us. The only leverage was preventing a tax increase on higher income people.

            I wish there was a way to outmaneuver them like Bill Clinton did Newt Gingrich. The problem is the economy was better back then, and Gingrich while horrible wasn't as bad as the current bunch.

            This whole thing is really a lose-lose proposition which sucks given we won the election. But its gerrymandering and abuse of minority rights.

            This is Republican billionaires finding a way to force their will on the country.

            As a member of Courtesy Kos, I am dedicated to civility and respect for all kossacks, regardless of their opinions, affiliations, or cliques.

            by joedemocrat on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 07:34:31 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  Forgot to mention.. (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            CoExistNow, HoundDog

            The Republicans do NOT care about the deficit...

            This is just an excuse to destroy the New Deal, which they never liked but went along with for political survival.

            I am also not a deficit hawk and I agree with economists that you mention this is a time to focus on jobs and not on deficits.

            As a member of Courtesy Kos, I am dedicated to civility and respect for all kossacks, regardless of their opinions, affiliations, or cliques.

            by joedemocrat on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 07:43:28 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  Correction I meant FICA withholding, FISA (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            joedemocrat

            "withholding" is a different, worse problem for a different post.

            The means is the ends in the process of becoming. - Mahatma Gandhi

            by HoundDog on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 09:17:06 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

      •  White out? (0+ / 0-)

        The sky isn't falling.  Nothing is permanent, like, forever, right?  All the cards aren't in GOP hands.  Stop replying to every comment with your doomsday gloom.  Happy New Year.  Ask the people who will continue getting UI checks and various tax credits if this is a bad deal and if they care what lies Grover spins.  Semantics aside, dozens of GOP legislators (I know, it's a stretch to call them that) just abandoned Grover's pledge.  He's trying to put lipstick on that pig and surely not gloating.  This isn't the Clinton economy.  Reasonable liberals think this is an ok deal.  Get some sleep, please?

  •  I predict it will get near 300 votes, (10+ / 0-)

    or slightly more.  I know the one Rep said it would get 40-50 GOP votes tops, but I don't believe that is the case.  I hope the Progressive Caucus votes against the bill, to force the House GOP to have to supply a lot of votes themselves as to not hang this on the House Dems.  

    President Obama would have been a Republican in the 1980's.

    by Jacoby Jonze on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 05:50:54 PM PST

  •  my favorite toy (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Mary Mike, blueoasis

    is in need of updating, which means MORE ORANGE.

    free-fall. has room for two, i guess.

    * Join: The Action: End the Bush Tax Cuts for Richest Two Percent * Addington's Perpwalk: TRAILHEAD of Accountability for Bush-2 Crimes.

    by greenbird on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 05:51:27 PM PST

  •  Its going to be ugly. (7+ / 0-)

    Chained CPI for social security is a guarantee.  Loss of middle class tax deductions to narrow the deficit are likely.  I don't see more revenue coming to the table other than through loss of middle class deductions.  That is where we now stand.

    Expose the lies. Fight for the truth. Push progressive politics. Save our planet. Health care is a right, not a privilege.

    by lighttheway on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 05:51:42 PM PST

  •  So was all this drama really necessary? (7+ / 0-)

    There's a lot of people in DC that should be embarrassed. I really don't understand how they can live with all this BS. How did we get to the point where such irrational madness can dictate things that really matter? In the old days we had pork and I thought that was bad. But at least pork I could understand. And at least it had something to do with their constituents. This I do not understand at all.

    •  The fiscal cliff, as I understand it, was created (3+ / 0-)

      to specifically create a crisis between Democrats and Republicans where each would have to make a sacrifice as a way of ensuring a sort of checks and balances. I may be confusing this with the plot of the Hunger Games, but this is what I recall reading about why the fiscal cliff exists at all: as a manufactured crisis where everyone has to give something up to appease one another and thus avoid giving too much power to any one party.

      Click the ♥ to join us on the Black Kos front porch to review news & views written from a black pov - everyone is welcome.

      by mahakali overdrive on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 06:37:43 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  The tax cuts that are being "set in stone" (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Al Fondy

    only apply to straight income tax rates. Nothing says that financial transaction taxes, wealth taxes, or windfall profits taxes to nail the rich cannot be introduced later. Not to mention budget cuts that eliminate all subsidies for fossil fuels, or a fix to the FICA tax structure that allows the income cap to be removed. And the fact that congress is even in session now is an embarassment. A lot of rotten, putrid sausage comes out of lame duck congresses, which should be abolished.

    Trickle Down Economics 101: They get the golden parachute, we get the golden shower.

    by NoMoreLies on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 06:17:53 PM PST

  •  Over at RedState (9+ / 0-)

    They are calling it the McConnell Tax Hike. Let it be so... now and forever.

    While many minority groups are the target for discrimination, few face this hostility without the support and acceptance of their family as do many glbt youth.

    by azrefugee on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 06:21:34 PM PST

  •  voting has begun! Streaming at cspan.org (0+ / 0-)

    Let's eat Grandma. Let's eat, Grandma. Punctuation saves lives!

    by history first on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 06:21:55 PM PST

  •  Ive been half-watching CNN and Im wondering (5+ / 0-)

    why Grover Norquist is on there now AGAIN and some other GOP reps. Are all the Dem pols too embarrassed to show their faces on tv or what.

    Get out there and get peace, think peace, live peace, and breathe peace, and you'll get it as soon as you like.” ~ John Lennon

    by Lady Libertine on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 06:23:57 PM PST

  •  I think it was @ naked capitalism where (11+ / 0-)

    someone called it the "fecal cliff". How apt.

    "Say little, do much" (Pirkei Avot 1:15)

    by hester on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 06:27:50 PM PST

  •  Two things (0+ / 0-)

    To answer your question in the title:  We don't control the House, nor do we have complete control of the Senate.  And most of the country doesn't have $250K in their head; what they do have is that taxes will be raised on the wealthy.

    My feeling is that we could have, and should have, only included a two-year extension of the Bush tax cuts
    So, in two years time, if the economy is still behaving poorly, you want Republicans to once again have the ability to hold taxes hostage?  Instead, it would be better if taxes need to be raised, that a bill requiring them to be raised should be held.  I would argue that tax bill should not have an expiration date, specifically because they are used to hide their true cost.

    "But the problem with any ideology is that it gives the answer before you look at the evidence." - President Clinton

    by anonevent on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 06:28:45 PM PST

  •  Whoo Hoo! (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    sharman

    This is a victory for sensible compromise over zealotry and opportunism.

    I love it!

  •  "Permanent" (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    decembersue, ZedMont

    in the past has never really meant permanent, as in forever. So although that term seems upsetting, it doesn't mean the rates won't ever be changed again at some point. Just that there is no set expiration date.

    •  Apparently you missed the last 20 years (0+ / 0-)

      This is the first time in the last 20 years that the GOP has had the ax of automatic tax increases hanging over their heads.  That is the only reason the Dems got any movemnet at all on the high end rates.  

      The GOP REALLY doesn't want that to happen again.  Now, the default of doing nothing benefits them, as usual,...as we're going to see in the upcoming debt ceiling cave-in.

  •  UPDATE 9:36 EST (0+ / 0-)

    The vote is overwhelming in the House to agree to the "rule" to allow debate and an up or down vote some time within the next 90 minutes.

    Because of the overwhelming nature of the vote on the rule, it appears to me that I can go to bed with confidence that the bill will pass around 11 PM EST.

  •  Watching on c-span now (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    joedemocrat, marsanges, decembersue

    It looks like chaos in there, whoa.

    Click the ♥ to join us on the Black Kos front porch to review news & views written from a black pov - everyone is welcome.

    by mahakali overdrive on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 06:41:26 PM PST

  •  House is currently voting on the rules.. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mahakali overdrive, davehouck

    ..and will shortly begin debate, then a vote on HR 8

    Live link to C-Span
    Thx HoundDog

  •  Hi dog (OT) (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    hulibow, Eric Nelson, greenbird

    Happy new year to you. Just in case it helps!

  •  Levin expresses concern that the (7+ / 0-)

    American economy will suffer Internationally, as well as 2 million unemployed workers, for 30 million middle income Americans hit by alt. minimum tax, 25 million working family and students from earned income credits, for physicians and patients in cuts to medicare, to businesses through extensions of RND credit, and renewable energy incentives, and bonus depreciation to encourage business investments. Breaks the iron barrier which has permitted tax revenue, raises wealthiest 2% taxes contrary to propaganda, as well as 97% of businesses, vital for future deficit budget efforts, sets a stage... missed some of this... Obama is committed to deficit reduction, but we have to do this in a balanced responsible way in addition to spending cuts. So I urge its passage. The time is urgent. The time is now. We should support this legislation.

    Click the ♥ to join us on the Black Kos front porch to review news & views written from a black pov - everyone is welcome.

    by mahakali overdrive on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 06:53:55 PM PST

    •  and then there is Issa. STFU. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mahakali overdrive, Eric Nelson

      I'm pretty tired of being told what I care about.

      by hulibow on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 06:56:34 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Pelosi speaking (7+ / 0-)

      My colleagues, many of us this am began this day with the President coming to speak to us about the Senate passing the legislation at a historically victorious number of 89-8 despite bipartisanship...reconciling our differences was a momenumental task and we appreciate the leadership of Biden, hopefully we can duplicate the strong bipartisan vote seen in the Senate, important because U.S. people have differences too but told us with their votes that they want compromise. Talks about a balance of equities between what's in a package vs. not in a package. Hope we will reflect the call of the American people to come together. What are priorities: deficit reduction, middle class strengthening, it is not complete but an important first step, we talked about doom and gloom of going over cliff, let's talk about what happens if we don't and I believe we will heed the american people and not go over, we will increase consumer and employer and business confidence, we will extend UI insurance, this is very very important, this is money that is spent immediately, we will extend permanent tax relief to middle class, more than 98% and 97% of small businesses, talks about all the benefits (missed them, she was talking fast)... we will vote for this to show American people that we can work together and President Obama helps show us how we can.

      I don't know any piece of legislation that I've ever voted for that did everything that I wanted it to do. This bill doesn't accomplish all that we want it to do, it's is a good way for us to have a happy start to a New Year. I hope that you balance the equities and pros and cons... something about a kitchen table as the middle class and patriotism, vote for democracy and something about patriotism, let's step up to the plate that the senate met.

      Click the ♥ to join us on the Black Kos front porch to review news & views written from a black pov - everyone is welcome.

      by mahakali overdrive on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 07:03:51 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Rangel speaking (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        marsanges, ybruti, Nowhere Man

        We created this monster, do what you have to do but for god's sake, don't ask the wealthiest 2% to pay their fare share. Why don't you think, while talking about taxing, to start privatizing things, this will start the america that I knew when I started the congress when people were preaching that we had to kill big govt. Saved by responsible people like us who said have you lost your mind? We paused. Common sense prevailed. They're coming again, all types of worries that they're coming after us and the POTUS w/ debt ceiling and sequestration... re: the Right, we never saw how they would have paid for these things like medicare, everyone had amnesia in not knowing. We'll be sure that this congress will not.... do that basically.

        Click the ♥ to join us on the Black Kos front porch to review news & views written from a black pov - everyone is welcome.

        by mahakali overdrive on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 07:07:31 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Blumenauer objects (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          ybruti, marsanges, KayCeSF, Turbonerd

          The SGR is left for medical providers. It's not enough. We all know that it should at a minimum be reformed if not repealed. Likewise, the other reforms are meaningless and not enough. We refuse to deal with the National Debt. Would require 6 trillion dollars in the debt ceiling. We can't continue to have world's largest military, lowest taxes, most expesnsive and inefficeient health care, this proposal represents absolutely the least we could have done and institutionalized the madness here around self-inflicted deadlines that have no reality to them that drive the american public crazy. It will probably pass but I hope taking a risk on both sides of aisle, but I hope Obama get serious about reform that ironically that people on both sides (get serious about).

          Click the ♥ to join us on the Black Kos front porch to review news & views written from a black pov - everyone is welcome.

          by mahakali overdrive on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 07:13:46 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Rep. Davis supports it (4+ / 0-)

            despite some constituents calling to oppose it due to its imperfection because of the poor folks and particularly unemployed that it would impact in his district. He would vote for it because people need it right now, not next month.

            Click the ♥ to join us on the Black Kos front porch to review news & views written from a black pov - everyone is welcome.

            by mahakali overdrive on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 07:23:13 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Clyburn supports it (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              cassandracarolina, KayCeSF, Turbonerd

              It is past time to put aside extreme partisanship. The 112th Congress places narrow political interest against public interests. The clock is running out. We must provide middle class tax cuts, grow economy, protect jobs and those most vulnerable to get about peoples' business. I've served on some bipartisan group for fiscal issues in the past and made good progress until GOP walked fearing the Tea Party. I served on the soup committee to discuss these issues in detail and it was clear that a fiscal balanced plan, in the end we failed due to Tea Party. This is not a perfect bill and I have concerns about some of the cuts, but it protects middle class and working people... I hope that the partisanship here will end this week with this congress and that the 113th can work toward honorable congress for people. I urge a yes vote.

              Click the ♥ to join us on the Black Kos front porch to review news & views written from a black pov - everyone is welcome.

              by mahakali overdrive on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 07:26:42 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Minority Whip Hoyer talking (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                KayCeSF, Turbonerd

                Sorry for the abbreviations. My carpal tunnel is flaring up, gr...

                Any bill is imperfect. Compromise is not the art of perfection. By its definition that neither side likes but also contains pieces that both sides can embrace. What we will do tonight is adopt bill that assures millions of people that taxes won't be raised or the unemployed, small business owners' taxes, etc.

                So obviously for it. Important to show constituents we're neither republicans or democrats but americans with 435 points of view that sit in this chamber who create consensus which is democracy. There is time for partisan differences and confrontation but this night as we end the 112th congress...realizing that all of us have strong feelings, I regret this is not a big, bold balanced plan, we had an opportunity to reach that agreement in a bipartisan agreement but w/out bipartisanship, we won't reach that plan, but this night we take a step, a positive step and the people watching us on tv and reading about this tomorrow and seeing we were able to act not perfectly but in a bipartisan fashion toward fiscal responsibility and caring for those who most need us in this country, i urge others to support this legislation, not as a democrat or a republican but as an american.

                Rhetoric about bringing us together, the best in us, not driving us apart and partisanship. It is time for this congress to come together, address this issue, pass this bill.

                Click the ♥ to join us on the Black Kos front porch to review news & views written from a black pov - everyone is welcome.

                by mahakali overdrive on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 07:32:15 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

    •  I think the thing PBO is most committed to (7+ / 0-)

      is keeping the recovery on track.  I believe that this is the thing that guides him above all else.  Another recession would be very bad for poor and working people - worse than many of the things that are already problematic for progressives.

  •  It's now clear Cantor couldn't get the votes (9+ / 0-)

    for his amendments to the Senate bill.  That's why only the up or down Senate bill is being heard right now.  Snicker.  The House is gonna have a swell Republican fight going on in the next few months.  "Fasten your seat belts, it's going to be a bumpy ride."

    "It's too LATE to stop now!" - John Lee Hooker

    by Rolfyboy6 on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 07:04:03 PM PST

  •  they are saying now the vote will be (6+ / 0-)

    quarter to eleven eastern standard time

    if it fails, Dems still hold all the cards.

    if it passes, it will tear apart the Republican party.

    "Politics is like driving. To go backward put it in R. To go forward put it in D."

    by TrueBlueMajority on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 07:10:10 PM PST

  •  underwhelmed (4+ / 0-)

    I find Blue Dogs and New Democrats contemptuous, politically speaking.  

    Newt 2012. Sociopath, adulterer, hypocrite, Republican.

    by tikkun on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 07:20:15 PM PST

  •  liberals in the House should vote no (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Los Diablo, joanneleon, TJ

    There will always be someone gauging you with a tolerance meter. Deeming you acceptable or evil. They're the best to offend.

    by jbou on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 07:23:48 PM PST

  •  Recorded vote requested: tally is... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    citizenx

    adjourned for fifteen minutes.

    Click the ♥ to join us on the Black Kos front porch to review news & views written from a black pov - everyone is welcome.

    by mahakali overdrive on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 07:41:13 PM PST

  •  Vote has been ordered. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    davehouck, citizenx, elwior

    Well, here we go....

    I would rather spend my life searching for truth than live a single day within the comfort of a lie. ~ John Victor Ramses

    by KayCeSF on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 07:41:23 PM PST

  •  "This is a fifteen minute vote" (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    citizenx

    Thirteen minutes to go.

    I still don't know how this is going to pan out.

    Poor people have too much money and vote too often. Republican platform plank, 1980 - present

    by Anthony Page aka SecondComing on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 07:44:05 PM PST

  •  awesome background music for the CSpan floor (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    citizenx

    vote!

    Sounds like a Mozart sonata...but not sure.  Anyone know?  Think it's in 'C'  :)

  •  Dems should have voted "Present" (2+ / 0-)

    and force the Republicans to live with this bill.

    I have never been able to figure out if Fox is the propaganda arm of the Republican party or is the Republican Party the political subsidiary of Fox.

    by Dave from Oregon on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 07:50:53 PM PST

    •  They're supporting it (0+ / 0-)

      likely at the request and prompting of the President himself, via Pelosi.

      Change will not come if we wait for some other person or some other time. We are the ones we've been waiting for. We are the change that we seek. Barack Obama

      by delphine on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 07:52:45 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Maximum humiliation for Boehner (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      chantedor

      Pelosi and Hoyer spoke and supported the President's position, and lost only a handful of Democratic votes.  Boehner and Cantor both stayed off the floor and left the debate to Dave Camp and are losing their conference nearly 2:1.  I'd say it's even money that Boehner won't be speaker by this time next week.  He just violated the Hastert Rule on the biggest bill most of the Republicans will ever see.  Of course, that makes me wonder whether they could have gotten any more out of McConnell (R-Snapping Turtle).  

      While that doesn't make up for the huge give on tax rates, nothing is truly permanent.  If the Republicans lose the House, rates on the rich will go up.  

  •  this is the end of the Hastert Rule (10+ / 0-)

    the bill will pass without a majority of R votes.

    This is a chasm in the midst of the R party and I can't wait to see how it plays out in the vote for Speaker.

    I don't see how Boehner can hold on to his gavel after this, but stranger things have happened.

    the Not Voting total is pretty high considering there are less than five minutes to go.

    "Politics is like driving. To go backward put it in R. To go forward put it in D."

    by TrueBlueMajority on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 07:51:56 PM PST

  •  This bill is getting killed in number of R votes. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    citizenx

    104-59 nays.

  •  Time ran out, what does that mean? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    KayCeSF, citizenx
  •  It's passed. (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    citizenx, politik, KayCeSF, tari, Eric Nelson

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Love one another

    by davehouck on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 07:57:46 PM PST

  •  And with this "hostage" safe... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    3goldens, Turbonerd, bear83

    We now move on to the debt ceiling and sequester part II, right?

    "He who fights monsters should see to it that he himself does not become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."

    by Hayate Yagami on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 08:01:01 PM PST

    •  The cutting and gutting (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      3goldens, Turbonerd, Hayate Yagami, bear83

      The magic asterisk.

      Can't touch "defense" though, Oh no.

      My goddamn government is broken.

      Poor people have too much money and vote too often. Republican platform plank, 1980 - present

      by Anthony Page aka SecondComing on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 08:04:09 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Medicare and Social Security (0+ / 0-)

      are strung up together over the shark tank as a 60 day hourglass empties, lowering them bit by bit . . . .

      Cantor:  What are we going to do in 60 days, Boner?

      Boner:  Trying to take over the world!

      Bwooohahahahaha!

      Forgive me, I'm listening to psychedelic music, perhaps it's a flashback, heh.

      Change will not come if we wait for some other person or some other time. We are the ones we've been waiting for. We are the change that we seek. Barack Obama

      by delphine on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 08:08:12 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  It has passed (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    chantedor

    and it wasn't all that close either. 257 to 166 or thereabouts. So much for the tea party hostage holders.

    "crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations which dare already to challenge our government" -Thomas Jefferson

    by Phil In Denver on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 08:02:59 PM PST

  •  Nice! This is a victory for governance (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    chantedor

    and a defeat for ideological hostage taking on the left and the right.

  •  What this vote may mean for Republican leadership (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mama jo, chantedor, KayCeSF, Nowhere Man

    Boehner was unable to get a majority of his caucus to vote for the bill, but brought it to the floor anyway.  He and Ryan voted for the bill, Cantor voted against it.

    Will the two thirds of Republicans who voted against the bill vote against him for speaker?

    Could Republicans who voted for the bill vote with Democrats for a non-Republican speaker and create a middle-way in the House, a way that would at least move some of the people's business forward and not take the government hostage at every step of the way?  Is that possible?

    In a somewhat distant related point:  Senator Rand (CrazyBatshitParty-KY) said that the majority of federal funds are spent wastefully.  I would like to propose that people who feel that way should not be entitled to buy meat in stores or restaurants that has been prepared in farms, slaughter houses, etc., that are subject to inspection by the FDA, not be entitled to fly in planes or land in airports that have FAA inspection, have law enforcement protection in the Capitol and in Senate or HR office buildings, etc.

  •  Boooooo! (0+ / 0-)

    This is a hollow victory - Dems have lost their best leverage for the spending debates to come.

    Filibuster reform now. No more Gentleman's agreements.

    by bear83 on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 08:08:16 PM PST

  •  MSNBC announcing President Obama will speak (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Eric Nelson

    at 11:20 PM ET.

    I would rather spend my life searching for truth than live a single day within the comfort of a lie. ~ John Victor Ramses

    by KayCeSF on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 08:10:32 PM PST

  •  Now That The Revenue Part Is Finished, The (0+ / 0-)

    Republicans can now move onto the Spending Part and dismantle Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid with deep, deep, deep cuts to each program.  

    The Democrats will not have any revenue sources to make up for any of the cuts.  The revenue sources have been used up by tonight's passage of this bill.

    The Republican Party is Simply a Coalition of Greed and Hate

    by kerplunk on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 08:10:50 PM PST

  •  What the hell is going on with "unfinished biz?" (0+ / 0-)

    The chair is calling for voice votes, and then quickly stating that "in the opinion of the chair, 2/3 being in the affirmative, the rules are suspended, blah blah blah... the motion to reconsider is laid on the table".

    Are these all amendments sent over with the Senate Bill?

    aHA! a "gentleman from Ohio" just requested a recorded vote on one!

    Withdrawn.

    Have you noticed?
    Politicians who promise LESS government
    only deliver BAD government.

    by jjohnjj on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 08:20:02 PM PST

  •  Whooo! Lame duck Jean Schmidt scolds the House (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    KayCeSF

    one last time!

    Have you noticed?
    Politicians who promise LESS government
    only deliver BAD government.

    by jjohnjj on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 08:22:04 PM PST

    •  Really? Well! (0+ / 0-)

      "You have your nerve" to remind me about that woman!  lol!

      Too bad Virginia Wolff (NC) wasn't walking off the stage with her.  

      I would rather spend my life searching for truth than live a single day within the comfort of a lie. ~ John Victor Ramses

      by KayCeSF on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 08:32:15 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Watching the local news, just heard a blurb (0+ / 0-)

    from our congressman--the fairly reliable Tim Ryan:

    [to this effect]   ....that he supported the proposal....
    that there's a misconception that in order to vote for a
    piece of legislation that you need to support it 100%.....

    which in a way, makes sense.  I suppose that since the
    country is made up of a very diverse population with
    thoughts that differ, one must be prepared to compromise.

    But!  If that's the way that things work--
    always with these watered-down compromises--
    when do the truly progressive ideas ever get a chance?

  •  OMG Li'l Luke Russert (0+ / 0-)

    is warning viewers ("I'm just telling this audience") that all the plans Obama has for this and that ain't gonna happen, or as he said, "Will be washed up" with the arguments coming up about the deficit.  Said Mr. President is running out of time to get anything done before 2014 campaigns begin!  

    OHNOZ!

    Geesh.  That guy turns my stomach with his prognostications and general remarks.  

    I would rather spend my life searching for truth than live a single day within the comfort of a lie. ~ John Victor Ramses

    by KayCeSF on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 08:37:10 PM PST

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