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Twenty-seven wooden angel figures are seen placed in a wooded area beside a road near the Sandy Hook Elementary School for the victims of a school shooting in Newtown, Connecticut December 16, 2012. Twelve girls, eight boys and six adult women were killed in the shooting on Friday at the Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown.
Memorial for the the 27 people murdered in Newtown, Connecticut.
Many elected Republicans don't want any new restrictions on guns. They say preventing gun violence would be better achieved by fixing the mental health system. Which would be a respectable if arguable stance if they really meant it. But, like the National Rifle Association saying existing gun-control laws should be enforced rather than passing new ones, there's a little disconnect. The NRA has fought budgeting and administrative rules that would allow for robust enforcement. Many Republicans saying fix the mental health system voted against doing just that five years ago:

Josh Israel writes:

Accessing mental health services in the United States is harder than accessing a gun. In 2008, Congress took a step toward addressing that issue by passing the long-delayed Paul Wellstone and Pete Domenici Mental Health Parity and Addiction Equity Act, which required most health insurance plans to start treating mental health services in the same way they treat all other medical care. The bill included exemptions for small businesses and those who opted not to cover mental health coverage at all, but House Republicans still overwhelmingly opposed the effort, 145 to 47.

Now, several of those opponents are criticizing President Obama, who co-sponsored the Wellstone Act, for not doing enough to address mental health in his gun violence proposals—even though several of the executive orders in the package do just that.

I try to avoid overusing the label "hypocritical horse's ass," but here are three of the guys from Josh's longer list who richly deserve it for voting against the mental health law but now are calling for fixing the mental health system as cover for their opposition to reasonable gun restrictions:

Rep. Marsha Blackburn (R-TN): “We need to have a serious conversation about mental health, psychiatric drugs, and the potential impact violent video games and movies have on our kids. I will closely review the President’s proposals, however I am concerned his approach is a pre-determined attempt to redefine our Constitution. I am not going to allow this administration to trample on the Second Amendment or put new restrictions on the rights of law-abiding citizens to own firearms and ammunition.” NRA rating: A

Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-TX): “Mental health issues that have languished for decades may be a fertile ground for bipartisan efforts to make a true difference. Perhaps, a good first step toward curbing gun violence may well be rebuilding the sanctity and importance of the family and the home where there can be education, training and an honest conversation about guns, without treading on the Constitutional protections from criminals intent on invading the home.” NRA rating: A

Sen. John Boozman (R-AR): (was representative when he voted no): “Firearms are the tools, not the cause. If we are serious about reducing gun crimes, we need to get to the root cause which includes addressing mental health issues in our country. That is where we need to focus on finding a solution.” NRA Rating: A

Yes. The mental health system needs reforming, needs more funding and needs to be part of our debate about reducing gun violence. But these sanctimonious twerps have proved by their votes that they are obviously not interested in that, only in deflection.

Originally posted to Meteor Blades on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 01:03 PM PST.

Also republished by Shut Down the NRA and Daily Kos.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Of course they did (19+ / 0-)

    The mentally ill have no societal value, why are they mooching care to keep them from harming others.

    "Til you're so fucking crazy you can't follow their rules" John Lennon - Working Class Hero

    by Horace Boothroyd III on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 01:16:11 PM PST

    •  I'm really calling bullshit on the whole issue (12+ / 0-)

      While it's clear that the protagonist in the Newtown massacre had mental health issues (as do all mass murderers, I would suspect), he came from a wealthy family and thus had access to the best mental health care available.  It's unclear whether or not he received any mental health treatment, but it wasn't for lack of financial or geographic access to such care.

      This whole GOP smokescreen regarding access to mental health care is an NRA talking point and does absolutely nothing to diminish the probability of another Sandy Hook.

      "Mitt who? That's an odd name. Like an oven mitt, you mean? Oh, yeah, I've got one of those. Used it at the Atlas Society BBQ last summer when I was flipping ribs."

      by Richard Cranium on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 04:22:40 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Psychiatric care cannot anticipate (0+ / 0-)

        sharp breaks from reality. That is not possible with known techniques or technology.

        Fewer than 30% of mass killers are diagnosed/treated for mental illness prior to the crimes. That is not a statement that implies that more interviews, per se, will lead to more discoveries of paranoid schizophrenia (PS) -- the leading cause of mass killings of strangers.

        Schizotypal range disorders are largely silent.

        Social withdrawal is the prime symptom as the PS develops. That can be an effect of a form of depression, or mild schizophrenia, or a physical disease.

        We have 50,000 PS individuals. We must separate them from firearms if we can. Stringent licensing is the top system that Australia implemented; removing militarized fantasy-model firearms from circulation comes in #2.

        We are the sane adults.

        "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012 "Have you left no sense of decency, sir, at long last?" Army/McCarthy 1954

        by bontemps2012 on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 05:41:52 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Exactly!!! Everything they throw (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        AreDeutz, Matt Z, Vote4Obamain2012

        at us is a distraction.

        It's the billionaires MO.  Distract, start fires everywhere their money can be spent and we will never have the strength or cohesion to stop them.

        A few dozen billionaire families (Koch's, Peterson's, de Vos', Waltons', Simmons etc) know that as long as they keep us constantly putting out the fires they create we'll never focus on them.
        Divide us by sex, age, color, income, geography etc while tearing apart our society and we'll never focus on who is really responsible.
        They create organizations to tear our country apart and we yell at their orgs. rather than the funders of these hate orgs.

        Focus, focus, focus all efforts on the Kochs etc and all else is possible.

      •  Except there is one talking point (0+ / 0-)

        we should raise and continue to raise:

        Ronald Reagan is responsible for the shambles our mental health care system is in today.  He cut off funding for mental health facilities and the next day we had a huge increase in the numbers of mentally ill homeless people.

        So shove that right back at them - Republican penny-pinching has consequences.

        Government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth - Abraham Lincoln

        by Gustogirl on Fri Jan 18, 2013 at 07:08:42 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  I wish they'd start the mental health initiative (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Debby, AreDeutz, JeffW, Matt Z

      on these f'in 'Newtown Truthers'.  These people need some serious mental hygiene.

  •  Is there a link to the bill available for us to (9+ / 0-)

    determine if our house reps voted against that 2008 bill?

    I'll bet my house horses's ass voted against it. I would sure like to know.

    202-224-3121 to Congress in D.C. USE it! You can tell how big a person is by what it takes to discourage them. "We're not perfect, but they're nuts."--Barney Frank 01/02/2012

    by cany on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 01:33:04 PM PST

  •  true, allen west and joe walsh may be gone (11+ / 0-)

    ....

    but we still have raging hypocrites like blackburn and gohmert.

    blackburn, has really been on a roll lately.
    she voted against sandy relief... of course after she voted for federal aid for her state.

    what is wrong with the people in her district?
    how can they be okay with her hideous record?

    every adult is responsible for every child

    by ridemybike on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 01:37:32 PM PST

    •  What is wrong with the people (11+ / 0-)

      of her district? I'm one of them. Regrettably there are more people in her district who agree with this ignorant, self serving fuck who vote for her election after election. Leave those of us who disagree with everything that comes out of her dark soul through her dumbass mouth out of your wonder. Many of us would love to be able to retire her to her bat shit crazy cave but it isn't happening until someone more offensive comes along. It defies all logic but this is reality.

      The extremely scary part of all of this is that most of her district is affluent and well educated people who came here from all over the country and the world. This is not Hicksville, TN despite attitudes that would fit in the most ignorant parts of the state. I have neighbors who are otherwise really good people. These folks are commonly evangelical right wingers and closet racists who are fearful of losing all the advantages and money they have now. The other issue is that we live in an echo chamber of extreme right wing bullshit. There are no contrary opinions available in the media and the Democratic party is non-functional. (Her opponent was a last minute unknown who was a last minute replacement for a fake Dem.) The only amazing thing is that more of us haven't bought into Blackburn's worldview. Be grateful for that small wonder.

      Time makes more converts than reason. Thomas Paine, Common Sense

      by VTCC73 on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 03:04:17 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Tell Us How You Really Feel.... (9+ / 0-)

        The first time I saw Blackburn in a TV interview she struck me as one of the most ignorant people I ever heard, in Congress or out.  However, she and Louie are neck and neck for the most ignorant in Congress today.

      •  Consider using mailers. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        AreDeutz, Vote4Obamain2012

        1. Get funding.

        2. Collect accurate information on what she says and does in congress.

        3. Get a solid editor. Don't second-guess this person.

        4. Try to mail out once a month.

        Point out to people that they can copy the mailer and echo it to their friends.

        Democracy is important.

        "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012 "Have you left no sense of decency, sir, at long last?" Army/McCarthy 1954

        by bontemps2012 on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 05:45:29 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I'd love to be able to follow your suggestions. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          bontemps2012

          I do not have the resources to do so and I suspect the Democratic party sees little reason to try harder. Especially in the face of the self reinforcing echo chamber supported by the mega-churches, the media, and complete bullshit spread by the candidates' releases. The few mailers I got from the aforementioned nitwit's campaign were dis-/misinformation couched in reasonable sounding patriotic language. Standard right wing fare.

          Sen. Corker sent out newsletters for a few months prior to the primaries. There was little if any factual information any of them with the possible exception of the date, maybe. I got nice boiler plate thanks-but-we-don't-fucking-care-what-you-think responses to my email challenges until they dropped me off their mailing list.

          So I ask you how do you fight that? The people, nice or not, want these idiots representing them and do not want anything or anyone challenging their dog given beliefs. No matter how insane. They are getting what they want while my wife and I avoid associating with them any more than we have to. It would be intolerable living here were it not for strongly progressive friends.

          Time makes more converts than reason. Thomas Paine, Common Sense

          by VTCC73 on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 08:56:37 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Well, the first thing is research. (0+ / 0-)

            "I do not have the resources to do so and I suspect the Democratic party sees little reason to try harder."

            The first part of research is researching your opponent. ThinkProgress is a start. DNC and DCCC do background work.

            You can work up a Facebook opposition page.

            Use FB to organize volunteers for an opposition movement.

            Fb and email are free for doing newsletter-style publishing.

            Or you can curse the dark....

            "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012 "Have you left no sense of decency, sir, at long last?" Army/McCarthy 1954

            by bontemps2012 on Fri Jan 18, 2013 at 07:09:34 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

    •  Look up her district map...... (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      AreDeutz, Matt Z, Vote4Obamain2012

      its the example used in the dictionary for "gerrymander". Really, take a look. Its so convoluted, I believe it actually skirts known democrat's homes.

      "Its always better to be shot from a cannon than squeezed from a tube" Hunter S. Thompson

      by hooktool on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 07:26:58 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  You are most likely correct however (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Matt Z, hooktool

        the gerrymand for her benefit was unnecessary. She has been firmly planted in a bright red district for a long time with no serious challenger from Dems. I suspect the real reason for any gerrymanding is to fence in Democrat strength in the city of Nashville.

        Time makes more converts than reason. Thomas Paine, Common Sense

        by VTCC73 on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 08:34:16 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Those 3 would STILL vote against funds if you put (20+ / 0-)

    it up for a vote today and put their own quotes in front of them.

  •  What is this comment supposed to mean? (13+ / 0-)
    Perhaps, a good first step toward curbing gun violence may well be rebuilding the sanctity and importance of the family and the home where there can be education, training and an honest conversation about guns, without treading on the Constitutional protections from criminals intent on invading the home.
    Didn't Adam Lanza have home education which included gun training and I presume a conversation about guns? Who knows if it was an "honest" conversation, whatever that means. If Gohmert was having the conversation it probably would seem very "honest" to rational thinkers.

    Whenever hypocritical bullshit artists like Gohmert want something to not happen (such as gun control or actually paying for mental health services) then they spout out some nonsense which sounds "good" and "positive" about home and family and learnin' at Daddy's knee and other such malarkey. This sounds like code for an anti-gay marriage agenda. Which has nothing to do with it, won't solve anything and is only meant to put any action off until Kim Kardashian's next wedding takes over the media and everything will be forgotten.

    "If you've heard this story before, don't stop me, because I'd like to hear it again." Groucho Marx

    by Ruh Roh on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 01:45:36 PM PST

  •  proof (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    hulibow, nosleep4u, Vote4Obamain2012

    once again that gunnies only get all snuffly and teary-eyed about mental health when they perceive some threat to their cruel and unusual killing machines. Otherwise, they could give a shit.

  •  OMFG...I'm shocked... (5+ / 0-)

    not..!!


    We are not broke, we are being robbed.

    by Glen The Plumber on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 01:54:29 PM PST

  •  If you look closely (7+ / 0-)

    all the Republican yahoos said the same thing. My reps included.
    "I will look closely at the proposals" read: PO and his ideas are popular, pretend you are going to read them.
    "Violent video games play a large role in the mentally ill  committing crime" read: The guns used were legal, so we must call the perpetrator crazy and influenced by Hollywood.
    "Erosion of the Second Amendment" read: rah-rah the constitution.
    It's all theater - none of these people are going to do a damn thing about the proposals put forth. I still wrote my all Republican delegation last night - even told them I knew what was going to be said in the form letter they will inevitably send back. There's always hope that one might appeal to their better angel.

    I'm pretty tired of being told what I care about.

    by hulibow on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 02:03:48 PM PST

    •  I've given up on mine (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      TomFromNJ, bontemps2012, hulibow

      My rep is Tim Huelskamp. He who got kicked off the budget and agriculture committees (he's from KS) for bucking the leadership all the time.
      He voted against Paul Ryan's budget because it didn't go far enough.
      He's also got the safest seat in the country (R+27), so we're stuck with him for a while.

      “We are not a nation that says ‘don’t ask, don’t tell.’ We are a nation that says ‘out of many, we are one.’” -Barack Obama

      by skohayes on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 04:01:45 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Register (R). (0+ / 0-)

        Run against him in the primary.

        Run as a Business Republican.

        You can even get money to do it. Giving up on these +27 districts is what killed the Bizzies, 1984-2004 and 2010.

        "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012 "Have you left no sense of decency, sir, at long last?" Army/McCarthy 1954

        by bontemps2012 on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 05:49:47 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  The mentally ill are actually more likely to BE (7+ / 0-)

    killed, by police, than to kill. In Sonoma County CA, home to Santa Rosa, there's been a series of shootings of the mentally ill. Once someone in Sonoma County becomes delusional and starts waving a knife, their lives are numbered in minutes. Often they're not considered a threat by family members, but the police do not have the training or facilities to subdue them without using multiple gunshots, apparently.

    Mental illness in this country is stigmatized and given insufficient medical help, to say the least. It's basically been criminalized, as a consequence. This fact makes me view with caution the call for more stigmatization of the mentally ill.

    Anyone who makes a threat of violence should go on a list to be denied a gun. But being bipolar should not make you end up on a government list somewhere.

    •  40-cents and paperwork. (0+ / 0-)

      A bullet and an hour with a pen. Cheap solution.

      Minimize budget impact....

      "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012 "Have you left no sense of decency, sir, at long last?" Army/McCarthy 1954

      by bontemps2012 on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 05:51:08 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  I can and do directly blame the White Tide of 96 (9+ / 0-)

    when Newtie-Newt and his Contract on America oozed into power.

    Within 6 years they had severely cut Medicaid funding for community mental health through a scam called "block grants" wherein mental health money was cut, then the remaining broken up and given to different "community service boards" so more of the money would be squandered on the petty fiefdoms these CSB's pretty much represent.

    I was laid off from a professional position with the County where I had been 8 years. They ditched Civil Servants with 27 years of seniority.

    And savaged the mental health care options for the less-well-heeled communities.

    NOW we see we might need some competent mental health services.

    The GOP is fucked because they have been against everything but their fascist bullshit and now are at a point where they can't be against everything because they are so painted into their stupid corner.

    Shitwipes.

    The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men.

    by xxdr zombiexx on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 02:55:08 PM PST

    •  Sam Brownback (6+ / 0-)

      was being bragged about on Twitter by the RGA, about how he wanted to increase funding by $10 million for mental health services in Kansas.
      Of course, they didn't mention that mental health services funding was slashed to the bone two years ago by Brownback. Or that he is not adding $10 million to their budget, but telling them to take that money from other services to bolster his pet projects.
      Disgusting.

      “We are not a nation that says ‘don’t ask, don’t tell.’ We are a nation that says ‘out of many, we are one.’” -Barack Obama

      by skohayes on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 04:06:47 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  BTW... there is a rather eye opening discussion (6+ / 0-)

    at calguns [link here] on mental health and gun ownership.

    Many are afraid people won't get mental healthcare for fear of losing their guns, while others just bash everyone from social workers to psychiatrists.

    A few don't seem to nutty, but others, well...

    You see for many--perhaps most--gun owners, absolutely nothing is ever acceptable. And, as you will see on these foums, the exceptions [people that speak in favor of a law] are generally in disagreement with the others.

    It just shows how out of step the gun owning community is, in general, with the public.

    202-224-3121 to Congress in D.C. USE it! You can tell how big a person is by what it takes to discourage them. "We're not perfect, but they're nuts."--Barney Frank 01/02/2012

    by cany on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 02:56:26 PM PST

    •  Mental Health has long languished (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      cany, Womantrust

      The budget cutting that has been the fad since at least the Reagan years has really causes a lot of damage.

      The Republican seem to be operating from a unanimity about the nature of mental illness, poverty and misfortune in general.  That seems to be the idea that God ordained that those people who are suffering have been judged and deserve their suffering and that tax dollars should not be spent to do anything to intervene in God's Will.  

      I don't think this is really Calvinism, but a misreading that has more to do with a more ancient justification for authoritarianism.  Dickens was writing about this.  Scrooge expresses this point of view before his 3 visits.  

      So we are actually dealing with a pre Dickens conception of "breeding."

      The current state of science on mental illness, particularly as it pertains to early onset seen during the school years, isn't what it really should be.  However, it is more advanced than our systems based on it would seem to indicate.

      The political system is what is backward.  The shouting matches over cutting budgets and "entitlements" has prevented an intelligent discussion about what is in the best interests of actually developing a better civilization.  

      There seem to be a lot of libertarians who are afraid that better databases that allow committable mentally ill people to be barred from gun purchases would cast too big a net and wrongfully include a lot of people.  

      The debates surrounding involuntary committment are not easy, in fact.  But it isn't about incarcerating people, it is about treating them.  Locked wards with mandated periods of committment are short term.  Committment does not occur without a hearing, a judge, psychiatric evaluation and lawyers.  A lot of times families rightly fear that a family member who is really in need of treatment might present in these little courts well enough so as to fail the committment.  

      The question for families of mentally ill persons is whether the system can be improved on the side of giving more help to people who need help, at the earliest possible moment.  It is not about trying to assess future threat potential.  

      I think part of the problem is that, while the impetus for doing something stems from the fact of mentally ill shooters with powerful weapons, improving the system can not succeed if it is based on that.  

      hope that the idiots who have no constructive and creative solutions but only look to tear down will not win the day.

      by Stuart Heady on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 03:14:26 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Involuntary commitment (0+ / 0-)

        That is the elephant in the room with all this pontificating about mental health and mass shootings. What do you do about someone who does not want treatment? What about someone who does not want to be compliant with medication and/or talk therapy long term?

        "No one life is more important than another. No one voice is more valid than another. Each life is a treasure. Each voice deserves to be heard." Patriot Daily News Clearinghouse & Onomastic

        by Catte Nappe on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 05:04:00 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  I think that some people will stay away from help (0+ / 0-)

      but I think that most were people who were doing that anyway. I doubt that the gun issue will be their motivation but maybe an excuse.

      "The scientific nature of the ordinary man is to go on out and do the best you can." John Prine

      by high uintas on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 04:33:43 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  What about those who make youtubes threatening (0+ / 0-)

        murder?  Can anyone see them?

        Sign my White House Petition Enforce the KEEP in the Second Amendment We don't have a problem with gun control, we have a problem with gun owners controlling their guns.

        by 88kathy on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 04:57:28 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  ? (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          88kathy

          Am I missing something?

          I was just thinking about a few family members who are clearly suffering from mental illness but avoid care as much as possible. I don't really understand it, maybe they hate the medication, maybe the illness drives them.

          Like I said, I doubt that for people like that this would be a motivation, but it might be useful as an excuse.

          "The scientific nature of the ordinary man is to go on out and do the best you can." John Prine

          by high uintas on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 05:03:01 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  All the media is going after is DR records of (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            high uintas, cany

            people who are struggling.  Sure this needs to be dealt with.  

            But they are completely ignoring the Crazy Yeager others who have made very public youtubes about their plans for murder of other human beings.  No outcry for them to turn in their arms, because that would make their paranoid dreams come true.

            If you need links to those videos.  I will get them.

            Sign my White House Petition Enforce the KEEP in the Second Amendment We don't have a problem with gun control, we have a problem with gun owners controlling their guns.

            by 88kathy on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 06:03:09 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Oh! (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              88kathy, cany

              I'm slow sometimes, but I got ya now. As I understood the Yeager dude got his license pulled, was that wrong? I just remember reading it here.

              There should be outcry about them, they may be mostly just yelling but they are unhinged and wrong. I think that you are aware of them means there is at least some outcry.

              I decry them because they influence others, maybe younger, maybe weaker minded. No matter, they are the representation of what to me is the bat shit crazy side of gun culture and our country in general.

              "The scientific nature of the ordinary man is to go on out and do the best you can." John Prine

              by high uintas on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 06:45:37 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

  •  Such a mess and (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Meteor Blades, orlbucfan, frankw9

    the Republicans are caught in the very web they've weaved.  You can't fix the system until you get people like the Koch brothers and the lobbyists out of the money game of corrupting the very system they want to work correctly after they have undermined and twisted all the rules of the very system they want to work.

    I mean, the EPA drops investigations of people's water being on fire due to fracking, the ATF can't enforce the laws we now have on the books, etc.  You can name almost any system that we have and because of the wads on money some people can throw around it has pretty much been corrupted.

    The mental health system can't be fixed.  It has been corrupted and destroyed by the pharmaceutical industry seeking profit.  That started in the early 1990s when therapists could no longer work on a sliding scale for those with less resources.  Then it was privatized by the insurance companies and finally destroyed to the point where it no longer helped those most in need especially if they are not wealthy.  Trust me once you work behind the scenes in these systems you see how corrupt the systems have become.

    And lastly, we have to have a system where being corrupt and wealthy isn't the only way to get ahead in life.  

    "During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolution­ary act. " George Orwell

    by zaka1 on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 03:20:15 PM PST

    •  ??? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      zaka1

      I got my mental health care on a sliding scale at the county health clinic -- this was about 1998.

      •  It truly depends (0+ / 0-)

        on what kind of system your using.  The county health clinic probably receives a state granted block of money to provide on a sliding scale.  However, if you were in private practice you could not provide services on a sliding scale to individuals while charging insured people at a different price.  Which sounds fair at first, but then a lot of people didn't have insurance or their insurance only cover a certain number of visits and then they had to pay out of pocket.  Usually when it came to out of pocket a lot of people had to then drop out of therapy because of the cost.  Plus, a lot of people don't always have access to county clinics and a lot of clinics were being shuttered by the year 2000.

        "During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolution­ary act. " George Orwell

        by zaka1 on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 08:57:01 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  this is just an extension of the Zombie Reagan (6+ / 0-)

    policies of releasing the mentally ill onto the streets by defunding aid

    Despite this apparent progress, just a year after the Mental Health Systems Act was passed, the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1981 was passed. The Omnibus Act was passed by the efforts of the Reagan administration as an effort to reduce domestic spending. The Act rescinded a large amount of the legislation just passed, and the legislation that was not rescinded was almost entirely revamped. It effectively ended federal funding of community treatment for the mentally ill, shifting the burden entirely to individual state governments.Federal funding was now replaced by granting smaller amounts of money to the individual states.

    Warning - some snark above‽ (-9.50; -7.03)‽ “If someone has a tool and is trying to negate your existence it would be reasonable to reciprocate in kind with your own tool.” - Dalai Lama XIV (sic)

    by annieli on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 03:49:48 PM PST

    •  Reagan also threw away much of the (0+ / 0-)

      rural Midwest.

      Depopulated it.

      "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012 "Have you left no sense of decency, sir, at long last?" Army/McCarthy 1954

      by bontemps2012 on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 05:52:27 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Anything else wouldn't meet GOP's low standards (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bontemps2012

    of behavior.

    Electing people who don't believe in government to Congress, is like installing an atheist as pastor of a church. If they don't believe in the institution or its goals, they won't care if it does a good job for its members.

    by Lefty Coaster on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 04:06:33 PM PST

  •  Even done right - It's tricky (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Meteor Blades

    Where does the line get drawn? Bloomberg's "Mayors Against Illegal Guns" proposals sound as if confiscation is part of the deal if a person is deemed by a third party in the medical field as unfit to keep his otherwise legal gun. Anti-depressants? Marijuana? Drinking scotch like it's still the era of the Rat Pack?

    Pull that, and the NRA will double its membership in a heartbeat, and the wing-nuts will have all the ammo they need.

    The Aggressively Ignorant Caucus is getting aggressively ignorant again.

    by Anthony Page aka SecondComing on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 04:10:43 PM PST

  •  if there were a gun operator's test that resembled (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bontemps2012

    the psych profiling necessary to become an infantry rifleman(sic), what would it look like, the MMPI?

    Warning - some snark above‽ (-9.50; -7.03)‽ “If someone has a tool and is trying to negate your existence it would be reasonable to reciprocate in kind with your own tool.” - Dalai Lama XIV (sic)

    by annieli on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 04:11:02 PM PST

  •  Post a youtube threatening murder and that's (0+ / 0-)

    not insane?  Nobody notices?

    Refuse to enforce the law?  Not insane?

    But they need to see DR records.  I think there is obvious insanity to deal with first.

    Sign my White House Petition Enforce the KEEP in the Second Amendment We don't have a problem with gun control, we have a problem with gun owners controlling their guns.

    by 88kathy on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 04:12:45 PM PST

  •  Not exactly, Representitive Boozman (0+ / 0-)
    “Firearms are the tools, not the cause. If we are serious about reducing gun crimes, we need to get to the root cause which includes addressing mental health issues in our country. That is where we need to focus on finding a solution.”
    It's you that's the tool.
    Not 100% sure about your mental health either..

    The Aggressively Ignorant Caucus is getting aggressively ignorant again.

    by Anthony Page aka SecondComing on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 04:17:37 PM PST

  •  Mental Health funded by these mental cases? n/t (0+ / 0-)

    There is no hell on earth appropriate enough for those who would promote the killing of another person, in the name of a god.

    by HarryParatestis on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 04:18:47 PM PST

  •  Blackburn sounds like a Scientologist (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bontemps2012

    "Psychiatric drugs?" What does that have to do with the issue?

    "The two pioneering forces of modern sensibility are Jewish moral seriousness and homosexual aestheticism and irony." Susan Sontag

    by Shane Hensinger on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 04:18:56 PM PST

  •  They'd rather regulate vaginas than guns (3+ / 0-)

    Which come to think of it takes the phallic imagery of guns to a whole new level...

    "No special skill, no standard attitude, no technology, and no organization - no matter how valuable - can safely replace thought itself."

    by xaxnar on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 04:23:06 PM PST

  •  See a pattern (4+ / 0-)

    Stewart reported on how Republicans who now call for the ATF to enforce all the laws on the books have basically defanged the ATF in various ways and have kept it leaderless for years. Same sort of hypocritical horse's assholery.

    I hate to get conspiratorial but I'm pretty convinced that a conscious plan is afoot to ensure that government doesn't work so people will become more apathetic or just give up altogether. So maybe it's not GOP hypocrisy but a feature of their ideology.

  •  GOP = ABG. Anything but guns. (0+ / 0-)

    2014 IS COMING. Build up the Senate. Win back the House : 17 seats. Plus!

    by TRPChicago on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 04:23:23 PM PST

  •  The special interest lobbyists don't pay for them (0+ / 0-)

    to waste valuable teabagging time to exercise even a shred of common sense.

    Father Time remains undefeated.

    by jwinIL14 on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 04:27:28 PM PST

  •  I had a couple of great conversations today (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Mr MadAsHell, Womantrust

    One with my daughter who started out as totally anti-gun and moved to pro hunter and private gun owner but still very insistent that there will never be guns in her home and is generally pro more gun regulation.

    The second with my best friend who immigrated here from Germany. Still has issues with the concepts of rights vs privilege when it comes to guns. (Ya'll know the conversations guns vs cars...right vs privilege). Still she understands that having a gun is a right declared in the Constitution.

    And me, an RKBA member who is very protective of all the rights in the Constitution including the 2nd. None of us are gun owners and all of us were in agreement on two points. We were happy with what the Pres. proposed for the most part and that we need to look into what it is that makes us such a violent country.

    I take that general agreement of three people coming from three very different points on the scale as a really good sign that we are doing something right here.

    Just wanted to share.

    "The scientific nature of the ordinary man is to go on out and do the best you can." John Prine

    by high uintas on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 04:29:43 PM PST

  •  Blackburn (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Mr MadAsHell, KayCeSF

    "I am not going to allow this administration to trample on the Second Amendment" You and what army?

  •  There is not a shred of interest (0+ / 0-)

    on the right for more and better mental health care.  Not the tiniest bit.

    In any case, if it's really the need for mental health care that's the problem, and the guns have NOTHING to do with it, then I suppose these republicans wouldn't mind if somebody stopped by the nearest state mental hospital and handed out guns to all the patients?

  •  clinical social worker here (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Womantrust, KayCeSF, bontemps2012, Debby

    I say, strike while the iron is hot. Let's move to get some sweeping mental health access legislation passed right away.

  •  Nah - they aren't calling for mental health (0+ / 0-)

    At least not as you would know it.

    Gohmert still isn't supporting mental health care. For him, all mental health needs is:

    rebuilding the sanctity and importance of the family and the home
    And Rep. Blackburn wants
    a serious conversation about mental health, psychiatric drugs, and the potential impact violent video games and movies
    I've bolded the dog whistle there that points to a popular view among many conservatives - it's the medication people are given for mental health conditions that causes them to act violently.

    Don't know about Boozman - he may actually be sincere in his interest in actual mental health care for all I know.

    "No one life is more important than another. No one voice is more valid than another. Each life is a treasure. Each voice deserves to be heard." Patriot Daily News Clearinghouse & Onomastic

    by Catte Nappe on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 04:44:12 PM PST

    •  Witness how (0+ / 0-)

      trained security guards in every school devolved into Joe Arpaio's roaming volunteer bands of pedophiles and violent criminals.

      No, they don't really mean it.

      An unsuccessful shoe bomb attack resulted in nine years of inconvenience for every flier in the country. It would be nice to think [this diabolical act] might lead to some similar inconveniences. --mrblifil

      by Debby on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 07:28:03 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Two points about their evil hypocricy (0+ / 0-)

    1;  The gun boys are all clinically delusional paranoids who fear "they" are going to take away all of their precious guns so the American government can put all the good people into camps and let the non-whites loose to rape white women and steal white stuff.  Do they think anyone thinks they are not nuts?
    2:  If a clean bill of mental health becomes necessary to get a gun, then people will need an affidavit signed by a licensed health care professional.   But what happens if the guy afterwards wakes up one morning and shoots up a school.   Does anyone think the psychiatrist who signed off on the shooter will not be sued for malpractice?  

  •  Marsha Blackburn (0+ / 0-)

    has been my Congresswoman for years, and I can tell you that "hypocritical horse's ass" is one of the nicer terms for her.

  •  The NRA has stoked fear and paranoia (0+ / 0-)

    to the point where large numbers of their membership apparently think Sandy Hook was a "hoax", an elaborate scheme by Obama and the people of Newtown to grab their guns.  If we have mental health testing, we should begin with the NRA's membership.

  •  How I happen to find this struggle relatable (0+ / 0-)

    I've had experiences like this:

    ME: Please sign to restrict carbon dioxide emissions.

    RWNJ: Carbon dioxide!  The plants'll suck that all up!  No problem.

    ME:  Not quite, sir, but hold on.  Please sign HERE to protect the rainforests.

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