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Rick Perry signing something official with his tongue sticking out.
No California business for you!
The rivalry between Texas and California is no secret, and it goes far beyond the fact that they are the two most populous states in the nation. While neither state is monolithic in terms of its political ideology—Texas has deep-blue Austin while some inland parts of California are a startling shade of crimson—the politics of each state has been marked by radically different ideologies. California's main power bases of economic and political power include two of the places conservatives most love to hate: San Francisco and Hollywood. Meanwhile, every single statewide elected official is a Democrat, and Democrats have dominated the state legislature, despite the roadblocks along the way. In recent years, the state government has sought to invest in projects like high-speed rail and solar energy, often taxing itself for the privilege Texas, of course, is just the opposite: a conservative ideological paradise funded substantially by the oil industry, with low taxes and a belief that government is the problem, not the solution.

Because of its ideological ramifications, the rivalry between Texas and California is more than just competition for bragging rights between the nations two heaviest hitters; rather, it is ground zero in an ideological proxy war between the progressive and conservative factions of larger-scale national politics. And in recent years, as the Lone Star State was experiencing its so-called "Texas Miracle" while California was limping along from budget crisis to budget crisis, it was far from uncommon for conservative ideologues to point to the contrast between the two as evidence of the success of conservative economic policy.

Unfortunately for them, the tide has turned on this view. First, the so-called Texas Miracle turned out to be a sham masked by a combination of rapid population growth, high oil prices and low wages. Ironically enough, it was billions of dollars in stimulus funds that was propping up Texas' budget solvency. When that ran out and the economic crisis finally showed its full effects, the state faced a crippling budget deficit of $27 billion, and was forced to make massive cuts to Medicaid and education to stay afloat.

California, meanwhile, has been on exactly the opposite trajectory. The voters, sick of the tax revolt that had been artificially maintained by the Republican minority, voted in a series of structural reforms that loosened the minority's stranglehold in Sacramento and followed that up by passing two tax measures to promote green energy and protect our schools from further cuts. Combined with the economic recovery that has been taking place nationwide, these changes were enough to put California's budget back in the black for the first time in many years, even as Texas suffers from high poverty, low wages and a drastically failing education system.

Join me below the fold to learn more about why the economic miracle in Texas was really a mirage.

Texas' economic success, then, was more mirage than miracle. But even had it been sustained, it could never have been a model suitable for nationwide implementation. As Krugman explains:

What Texas shows is that a state offering cheap labor and, less important, weak regulation can attract jobs from other states. I believe that the appropriate response to this insight is “Well, duh.” The point is that arguing from this experience that depressing wages and dismantling regulation in America as a whole would create more jobs — which is, whatever Mr. Perry may say, what Perrynomics amounts to in practice — involves a fallacy of composition: every state can’t lure jobs away from every other state.

In fact, at a national level lower wages would almost certainly lead to fewer jobs — because they would leave working Americans even less able to cope with the overhang of debt left behind by the housing bubble, an overhang that is at the heart of our economic problem.

This job-poaching practice serves as the context behind Texas Gov. Rick Perry's latest media gimmick: a tiny media buy and a poaching tour throughout California, wherein he sought to visit California businesses in an attempt to convince them to relocate or expand to Texas. A primary focus of Perry's efforts is a company located on the Southern edge of California's Central Coast, Haas Automation, which claims it is unhappy doing business in California and is considering offers from other states.

Conservatives love to promote the narrative that businesses are leaving California in droves because of high taxes and regulation, but the truth is an entirely different story:

Conservatives have made hay of reports of California companies leaving the state. And it's true! Some have—254 in 2011, to be exact. Conservative media had a field day with that little stat. On the other hand, 132,000 new businesses were created that same year—second highest per capita in the nation, tied with Texas, and behind only Arizona. And that was California's down year.
As Markos also wrote:
California leads the nation in job creation because it is the world center for both entertainment and technology. Even foreign corporations, like Samsung, house their R&D in Silicon Valley for obvious reasons—this is where the talent and venture money lives. And yes, the things that make California awesome (like infrastructure, education, entertainment) cost money. But we appreciate those things, which is why we voted ourselves tax increases.
Turns out that businesses actually like to be here and love to start here. Maybe that's why Gov. Perry's trip was a massive failure:
On a conference call with reporters from Laguna Beach, the Republican said he spent his four days meeting with entrepreneurs and business leaders and held a reception for more than 200 California companies that have expressed interest in moving to Texas. His office later clarified, though, that the reception was actually with only 20 businesses.

Such relocations can take time, but Perry also offered no details on prospects, much less concrete announcements.

If Gov. Perry wants to recruit high-tech businesses from California to Texas, perhaps he should stop spending time in California making a failed sales pitch and spend more time at home fixing his state's poverty crisis and broken education system by actually investing in his state's people, instead of forcing his people to fall to the lowest common denominator of his state's laissez-faire business climate. Maybe he should lead by example and learn about California before visiting the next time. Who knows? He might actually learn that we have an energy industry.
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Comment Preferences

    •  Transplanted Texan (45+ / 0-)

      Born and raised in Houston, Texas - Living in San Francisco Bay area for more than a decade now.

      I'm not going back. Not if I can help it. And if I did, I would move to Austin.

      I love my family I left behind. I love parts of Texas, especially the pioneer spirit of its women. Women like Barbara Jordan, Anne Richards and Molly Ivins.

      Houston is the fourth largest city in the nation, and one of the most diverse. It has an openly gay Mayor, and its definitely a 'blue' city.  I love it's 'free spirit' too...

      But I'm not going back.

      Not until or unless the state turns blue.

      That day will come. Just as surely as California woke up from it's republican Govuhnator... Texas will finally shake off the gerrymandering of Tom Delay's heavy hand, and the Dems will come to power.

      But probably not in my lifetime.

      The GOP Prime Directive: Be Silent - Consume - DIE!

      by Lance Bearer on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 04:19:39 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I'm a transplanted Arizonan... (13+ / 0-)

        ...to West Hollywood California.  The current governor of Arizona, Jan "The Lecturer of Obama" Brewer, reflects only the staid, conserative/Mormon Phoenix metropolitan area.  The southern part of Arizona, Pima County, where I come from, is true blue.  It's the home of Tucson, and Gabby Giffords.

        There have always been moves to separate Pima County from the rest of the state, never, sadly, amounting to anything.  Arizona surely has had amongst the worst governors in US history--Google Evan Mecham, who publicly called black children "pickaninnies" and abused the office so badly he was impeached and removed.  Then there was Jack Williams, who refused to do anything about air pollution in 1960's Phoenix (when it was very bad) because he said the air is no worse than it ever was, we can just see it better from newly built tall buildings.

        I'm not sixty-two—I'm fifty-twelve!

        by Pragmatus on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 06:07:25 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  It can be done. (10+ / 0-)

        It took my lifetime, but we finally shook off the bonds of Republican madness. Now we can finally work on fixing our state. Long may it stay blue.

        The road to excess leads to the palace of Wisdom, I must not have excessed enough

        by JenS on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 06:16:33 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  The city of Houston is blue (10+ / 0-)

        but the suburbs are red, and the exurbs are deep crimson.  Obama won Harris County (Houston) by .05% of the vote in 2012.  Steve "I love Ted Nugent" Stockman is the Representative from the very next district north of Houston.  Louie "I show I'm an idiot every time I open my mouth" Gohmert is the representative from the district just north of that.  Texas has a lo-o-ong way to go before it turns blue.

        "In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican." - H. L. Mencken

        by SueDe on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 09:21:37 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  The voters are already there to make it purple (8+ / 0-)

          It's not as if you need a fundamental change in TX's demographics. You just need a change in who actually makes it to the voting booth. And the current demographic trends only help here.

          So I don't think it's quite so long a road. A blue TX is probably three or four cycles away—once D's commit to it.

          •  This non-Texan (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            lone1c

            would happily support the DNC taking on a Texas Project to work on moving Texas towards purple without waiting for demographic trends. Besides, the Republicans aren't going to just sit around and not try to win over more of the non-white population and new groups of young voters. If Democrats sit and wait for Texas to turn blue without trying to make it happen, it won't happen. Even if Democrats don't win, just making the Republicans have to fight for Texas is a game-changer. They're have to pour in money instead of taking it out because without Texas, they have no way to win the electoral college, and may not have enough states to gerrymander to keep the US House.

            •  Republicans have put those demographics (0+ / 0-)

              in play by sending Cruz to the senate.  The Mexican population loves him, even though they don't particularly cotton to his policies.  He's highly educated, extremely smart, politically and legally savvy - every Mexican mother's dream for her sons.  He will have to be made out to be an embarrassment of giant proportions on the national stage for them to change their minds.

              "In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican." - H. L. Mencken

              by SueDe on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 02:37:12 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

    •  Yes, we have oranges and lots of smart people (19+ / 0-)

      Decades ago I was living in a small university town in the Midwest.  I was looking to change my life and broaden my options.  I drove with a friend to Austin to check it out, having an interest in the music business.

      Austin was fine, just not my town.  But dear god the territory we traveled through to get there. Felt like we were in deliverance.  Only it was the chiller/scify  version.

      Last several years have been difficult, but I love the Golden West...Yeah Bay....

      sh

    •  Give any person a choice where to live; (11+ / 0-)

      Los Angeles, or Dallas. I doubt you'd get many takers for Dallas even in Tejas or Oklahoma.

      Well except for oil billionaires of course.

      New Arizona State Motto; "Yeah, but it's a dry hate!"

      by Fordmandalay on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 05:27:07 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  So that's like the choice between (5+ / 0-)

        Dante's sixth and seventh circles...

        I love California... from Santa Barbara to the north, and skipping over the Central Valley.  One of the best years of my life was the one I spent in Berkeley.

        The six months I was in Glendale, however, were damn near close to hell on earth.

        So far in this life I've been lucky to have gotten no closer to Dallas than the Dallas-Fort Worth airport.  If my luck holds, I'll make it to the end with my record intact.

        When the union's inspiration /Through the workers' blood shall run /There can be no power greater /Anywhere beneath the sun /Solidarity Forever!

        by litho on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 05:43:33 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Glendale is an armpit -- and a hot one in summer! (7+ / 0-)

          Yeah, there are places in Cali that suck, but overall, with the mountains, ocean, progressive state politics (Orange County aside), and the best state university system in the world, it's a comparative paradise -- and the hyper-libertarians and Teabaggers are welcome to move to Tejas or Somalia if they don't like it.

          "Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob." -- Franklin D. Roosevelt

          by Kombema on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 06:01:53 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  There is a Glendale, TX, too. (4+ / 0-)

            Also an armpit.  Glendale is right down the road from Jasper (home of the lynching of James Byrd, Jr. by dragging him behind a pickup truck in 1998).  Steve Stockman is the newly-elected representative in the U.S. House for both Glendale and Jasper.

            "In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican." - H. L. Mencken

            by SueDe on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 09:32:46 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

      •  True. (6+ / 0-)

        All other things being equal.  Of course, all other things are rarely equal.  For me, Dallas is much closer to my family and far less expensive to live in than L.A., which is a big deal when you don't have a huge income.

        28, white male, TX-26 (current), TN-09 (born), TN-08 (where parents live now)

        by TDDVandy on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 05:45:52 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I (4+ / 0-)

          hear you. I live near San Francisco and even with the crap load of condos going up on Market Street, Mission Bay, Third Street, the Mission District, you'd still need to be making well north of $100,000 a year to even think about buying one.

          Hell even the affordable or below market housing is out of reach of many people unless you get help from the government.

          For example the company I work for (Mercy Housing) runs a 12 story affordable apartment building for families in Downtown SF and is building another one near AT&T park, but if you aren't on Section 8 or getting help via the city you can expect to fork over a grand a month for a one bedroom apartment.

          The Republican party is now an extreme right-wing party that is owned by their billionaire campaign contributors. - Bernie Sanders

          by ehstronghold on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 08:16:11 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  You're kidding, right? (4+ / 0-)

        Between Dallas and Los Angeles, I'd choose Dallas in a moment...in fact, I did.  Los Angeles does serve as a cautionary tale on what Dallas could become after another few decades of sprawl and lack of central planning...but the fact is that is what LA is today, where it is only our possible future.

        That said, I'll acknowledge that LA is one of the less appealing parts of California to my taste...other cities would fare better in the comparison if only it weren't for those awful housing costs.  And that cost of housing does matter an awful lot -- one powerful benefit for living in the Dallas area is that one can live comfortably here on a relatively modest salary, and one can even look forward to the prospect of paying off their home mortgage early here.  Being able to live affordably and stay out of debt really does matter for quality of life.

        Political Compass: -6.75, -3.08

        by TexasTom on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 06:00:58 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  You all pay a much higher % in property (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Eyesbright

          taxes than we do in LA so there is a trade off.  Our properties appreciate when Wall St. isn't stealing $ and screwing up the markets.  Yours don't.  Metro LA is a lot cheaper than other high priced top tier metro areas.  Dallas is not a top tier city.  LA, SF, NY, Chi, Boston, DC are.  

          Alternative rock with something to say: http://www.myspace.com/globalshakedown

          by khyber900 on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 08:45:06 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  A higher %… (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            skohayes, TexasTom

            …on a lower base vs a lower % on a vastly higher base.

            Given that in major metropolitan areas housing prices cost 4 times what comparable home in Texas yet the property tax rate is only 2-3 higher (depending on the city/county/ISD), Texans still pay less in property tax.

            Union-printed, USA-made, signs, stickers, swag for everyone: DemSign.com.

            by DemSign on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 10:58:55 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  Imagine (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Eyesbright

            a city like Dallas after 16 years of Democratic governors (rather than the last 16 years of Bush and Perry), who cared about education and pollution.
            Then LA would have some competition.
            It could happen.

            “We are not a nation that says ‘don’t ask, don’t tell.’ We are a nation that says ‘out of many, we are one.’” -Barack Obama

            by skohayes on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 03:58:03 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

    •  If I may add a little different perspective (15+ / 0-)

      Texas was able to avoid much of the housing bust fallout because of one very smart regulation known as the Texas A6 law.  It basically says that if you're in Texas and you want to take a cash-out refinance on your primary residence, you cannot take more than 80% of your property value.  

      When you've got a large number of foreclosures in a neighborhood, they push down the rest of the home values.  Once loan to value ratios are above 110%, the default rate in the area runs up fast.  This pushes values down even further.

      Texas's A6 law actually kept a majority of homes in the State from exceeding the 110% threshold, in effect preventing a self-reinforcing loop of foreclosures and falling property values.  I believe that without A6 laws, Texas would have seen plummeting property values like in other 2000 to 2007 boom states.

      So there you have it.  Texas was protected from the downturn by one smart real-estate regulation.  One that I think the whole country could learn from.

  •  Looking toward the future (45+ / 0-)

    Climate change will not be kind to Texas.  Dallas-Fort Worth will see much higher temperatures and lower precipitation in the next few decades, as will most of the , northern, central and western parts of the state.  Houston will be more susceptible to stronger hurricanes and sea level rise.  California will have to deal with sea level rise along the coast and in the mid-central valley, but future temperature and precipitation changes are projected to be much more modest than Texas'.  Water resource management will be a challenge to both states, but California looks much better placed to deal with those challenges.

    Now, if you don't believe in climate change, then Texas is the place for you.  OTOH, if you're not insane, California is a far better bet.  Especially now that the state has kicked the Republicans out of government, and can finally fix its problems.

    Citizens United defeated by citizens, united.

    by Dallasdoc on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 04:15:17 PM PST

    •  You mean (10+ / 0-)

      Dallas/Fort Worth can see higher temperatures than it already is?

      28, white male, TX-26 (current), TN-09 (born), TN-08 (where parents live now)

      by TDDVandy on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 04:20:54 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Alaska and Canada should... (18+ / 0-)

      ...be forward-looking and start a water pipeline from Here to There.

      Some of the largest fresh-water reserves in the entire world reside here. Building a water pipeline NOW would mitigate many of the future effects of climate change. Green land is better than parched land. Crops are better than duststorms. We would be able to feed ourselves. Right now, that seems doubtful.

      Texas cotton farmers have depleted the Edwards Aquifer to critical levels. A pipeline of water would keep that economy from crashing.

      "Wealthy the Spirit which knows its own flight. Stealthy the Hunter who slays his own fright. Blessed is the Traveler who journeys the length of the Light."

      by CanisMaximus on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 04:30:59 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Exactly (18+ / 0-)

        They should be talking about building the Keystone H2O pipeline.

        Citizens United defeated by citizens, united.

        by Dallasdoc on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 04:54:00 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  T. Boone Pickens saw what's coming (6+ / 0-)

        It's been several years since I read of him buying up all the water rights in what I recall as northeast Texas.  I'm told that Texas has a law referred to as the "Biggest Pump" rule that makes it perfectly OK to pump all the ground water out of the aquifer and leave your neighbors dry.

        Yup.  Hard times comin' for Texans.

        I'll do some googling on ol' T. Boone and see what I can find on this.

        To stand in silence when they should be protesting makes cowards out of men. -Abraham Lincoln

        by Eyesbright on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 05:29:40 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Here's one of the better articles I found (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Kombema, Dallasdoc, madhaus

          It's from 2001 and things are only worse since then, water-wise and drought-wise.

          High noon at the Ogallala aquifer
          http://www.salon.com/...

          To stand in silence when they should be protesting makes cowards out of men. -Abraham Lincoln

          by Eyesbright on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 05:56:09 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  True around the world, where exploitative agric. (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Eyesbright, Dallasdoc, jayden, mrsgoo

            is tapping all the non-renewable ancient aquifers. Midwest/West is screwed in that regard when the deep water is gone just as the seasonal rain goes kaput, too.

            Think pre-Columbian civilization failure, Anasazi, etc. Time to shut down all those effing golf courses now!

            "Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob." -- Franklin D. Roosevelt

            by Kombema on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 06:15:30 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Edwards Aquifer is being depleted (7+ / 0-)

              by farmers, but fracking will destroy the groundwater in South Texas.  Everybody who can beg, borrow or steal enough money to buy used (read: dangerous) equipment is setting up a drilling rig (oil and/or natural gas) between San Antonio and the Rio Grande.  The only thing that land is good for is cattle ranching, and with no water - or polluted water - it won't even be good for that enterprise in the future.  Same goes for parts of northeast and northwest TX too.  And since it's the energy industry that funds Texas' budget, no one in state government will dare call a slowdown, much less a halt to it.

              "In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican." - H. L. Mencken

              by SueDe on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 09:47:03 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Water is about to become the next big thing to (4+ / 0-)

                fight over. That is why the billionaire agri-businesses in the CA Central Valley are busting a gut to built the twin tunnels under the CA Delta to siphon off 9K cfs of Sacramento River water. And our beloved (cough, cough) Gov. Jerry Brown is all for it. And the metropolitan water users will be picking up the tab. And the CA Delta will be destroyed. You do not restore an estuary by diverting the natural flows under/around it.

                www.restorethedelta.org

                if a habitat is flooded, the improvement for target fishes increases by an infinite percentage...because a habitat suitability index that is even a tiny fraction of 1 is still infinitely higher than zero, which is the suitability of dry land to fishes.

                by mrsgoo on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 10:20:03 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Water has always been the big thing to (5+ / 0-)

                    fight over,

                       A wise man said that in the West whiskey is for drinking and water is for fighting over. That was Sam Clemens aka Mark Twain. He was around long before the current global warming...

                  Diehard Swingnut, disgruntled Democrat, age 54, new CA-30

                  by Zack from the SFV on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 10:57:31 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  The difference is that now it is big money! And (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Eyesbright

                    climate change will begin to make it about survival. Please start to follow this. A great source is www.aquafornia.com

                    if a habitat is flooded, the improvement for target fishes increases by an infinite percentage...because a habitat suitability index that is even a tiny fraction of 1 is still infinitely higher than zero, which is the suitability of dry land to fishes.

                    by mrsgoo on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 11:34:37 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                •  Why do you think.... (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Eyesbright

                  ....the Bush Family Crime Syndicate bought 100,000 acres in Paraguay? In a place where there is literally nothing? Because it sits on one of the worlds largest largely untapped aquifers. The Guarani Aquifer is in the "chaco" of northern Paraguay.

                  Oh, and the Bushies and Friends are small potatoes in this venture. The Bush-buddy Rev. Sun yung Moon bought over 1.2 million acres in the same place.

                  Makes ya wonder, huh?

                  "Wealthy the Spirit which knows its own flight. Stealthy the Hunter who slays his own fright. Blessed is the Traveler who journeys the length of the Light."

                  by CanisMaximus on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 12:05:30 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                •  Clickable URL (0+ / 0-)

                  To stand in silence when they should be protesting makes cowards out of men. -Abraham Lincoln

                  by Eyesbright on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 04:38:22 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

              •  That South Texas oil boom… (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Eyesbright

                Union-printed, USA-made, signs, stickers, swag for everyone: DemSign.com.

                by DemSign on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 11:06:08 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

      •  A Suggestion Was Once Made That A CA->OR Canal (0+ / 0-)

        be made, for California's benefit, I guess. We smiled and said no thanks. Canada would likely do the same.

        Time is an enormous, long river, and I’m standing in it, just as you’re standing in it. My elders are the tributaries, and everything they thought and every struggle they went through & everything they gave their lives to flows down to me-Utah Phillips

        by TerryDarc on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 06:50:27 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  That was a plan put forth by.... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          sharman

          .... Wally Hickel.

          He had a million of 'em....

          Possibly the most fascinating man or woman to come out of Alaska politics.

          He wanted an underwater pipeline from Alaska to California. Made of plastic tubing.

          He was buried standing up so he could come out "fighting for Alaska."

          "Wealthy the Spirit which knows its own flight. Stealthy the Hunter who slays his own fright. Blessed is the Traveler who journeys the length of the Light."

          by CanisMaximus on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 08:44:26 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  Little issue of earthquakes in CA (0+ / 0-)

      and I don't know if the geologists have ever rescinded their prediction that the whole damn state will one day slip into the sea...

      When the union's inspiration /Through the workers' blood shall run /There can be no power greater /Anywhere beneath the sun /Solidarity Forever!

      by litho on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 05:45:36 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  It has survived them before (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        DemSign

        .... and will again.  CA won't slip into the sea, but the real tragedy is that some day LA will invade the Bay Area.

        Citizens United defeated by citizens, united.

        by Dallasdoc on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 05:54:18 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  It will never get past Santa Barbara. (0+ / 0-)

          "In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican." - H. L. Mencken

          by SueDe on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 09:50:43 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Actually... (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            SueDe

            At the current rate of movement along the San Andreas fault of 3.4cm/year and an approximate distance of 400miles between LA and SF it will take 19-20 million years for LA to reach SF. LA will never reach Santa Barbara because both cities (as well as Santa Cruz, San Luis Obispo, San Diego and all of Baja California) reside on the Pacific Plate, whereas San Francisco is on the North American plate.

            Union-printed, USA-made, signs, stickers, swag for everyone: DemSign.com.

            by DemSign on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 11:19:39 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

      •  The ground shakes once in awhile (0+ / 0-)

        no big deal, most of us just ignore it and go back to sleep.

        •  Yeah, until the shaking hits 8 on the Richter (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          skohayes

          and the Cypress Freeway falls to the ground.

          Look, I survived the Mexico City quake and have experienced dozens more in several places -- including the Bay Area.  My first quake in Oakland was probably 3 on the Richter, and it felt almost like an orgasm.  But the Mexico quake broke 8, was followed by an equally powerful one the following day, and it brought the entire city to its knees.  Oh, yeah.  It also killed 25,000 people.

          Quakes are not a light and laughing matter.

          When the union's inspiration /Through the workers' blood shall run /There can be no power greater /Anywhere beneath the sun /Solidarity Forever!

          by litho on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 06:17:49 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  So I should move to Texas? (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            mgoodm, jayden, mrsgoo, OhioNatureMom

            Should the people who live in the tornado belt all move? How about everyone along the gulf coast and Atlantic seaboard? There will be more hurricanes.

            There are no tornado's or hurricanes that are laughing matters. But how most people in this country think of earthquakes is. 99% of the earthquakes out here are harmless. The ground shakes a bit and we go back to sleep.

            I've lived in California most of my 51 years, there have been 2 or 3 memorable quakes in that time that actually caused damage and took many lives. In fact I just looked it up, in my lifetime there have been 203 deaths by earth quakes in California. Hurricane Katrina alone caused over 1800 deaths. The Jasper County tornado in 2011 killed 122 people, just that one tornado!

            I don't have exact numbers but we have probably lost more people to wild fires here in CA than we have earth quakes.

            Will an 8.0 quake kill 25,000 California's? No, it won't. Loma Prieta's 7.1 quake killed 63. Our building codes are a lot stronger than they are in Mexico City.

            Statistically speaking an 8.0 or bigger will hit, eventually, and no it will not be a laughing matter. But making a decision to not have your business in California because there are earthquakes is something to make fun of.

            •  This +100 (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              bsegel, mrsgoo, OhioNatureMom

              The San Andreas is not Cascadia and it's going to cause mass casualties in Los Angeles, and probably not in San Francisco either (where the threat is undoubtedly higher).

              The last "war game" on the issue predicted that the "Big One" for Los Angeles might kill as many as 1,800 people and cause $200B in damage.  That's a Katrina number of deaths in a metro area with a population that is about 15 times as large.  I'll take those odds any day.

          •  Given the choice (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            mrsgoo

            I'll take a quake over a tornado or hurricane anyday. A quake is usually done in less than a minute, and your stuff remains dry and isn't halfway to the next town.

            Of course, this assumes you survive whichever natural event is involved. Quakes are indeed no laughing matter, but neither are hurricanes or tornados.

            "I belong to no organized party. I am a Democrat."--Will Rogers

            by vgranucci on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 09:13:21 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

      •  pretty sure that's fiction (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        mgoodm

        "Show up. Pay attention. Tell the truth. And don't be attached to the results." -- Angeles Arrien

        by Sybil Liberty on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 06:07:34 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Dunno. My sister was in a geology grad program (0+ / 0-)

          in the mid-70s and she came home convinced that it was just a matter of time before CA slipped away.

          I didn't put much stock in it when I read it in the popular press, but she was getting it from her professors while studying plate tectonics.

          They may not have been right, but that's a little different from something you read in the Weekly World News...

          When the union's inspiration /Through the workers' blood shall run /There can be no power greater /Anywhere beneath the sun /Solidarity Forever!

          by litho on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 06:11:37 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  CA will do water resource management better (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      OhioNatureMom

      Conservation is not a dirty word here

      •  No we are not. Check out the BDCP. They are (0+ / 0-)

        planning on moving 9K CFS under the delta to the central valley. Jerry is all over this. We are all against it. http://baydeltaconservationplan.com/...

        They are proposing this travesty as a restoration project. It is anything but. It is a water grab pure and simple.

        if a habitat is flooded, the improvement for target fishes increases by an infinite percentage...because a habitat suitability index that is even a tiny fraction of 1 is still infinitely higher than zero, which is the suitability of dry land to fishes.

        by mrsgoo on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 10:26:06 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Who told him this was a good idea? (11+ / 0-)

    you know it wasn't his idea, he doesn't have ideas of his own.

    We've been spelling it wrong all these years. It's actually: PRO-GOP-ANDA

    by Patriot4peace on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 04:16:16 PM PST

  •  It's true, then. (20+ / 0-)

    All you really need to become governor of Tejas is good hair.  It certainly hasn't been brains, when you consider both Bushie and this guy couldn't pour pee out of a shoe if the directions were written on the bottom.

  •  Talent-poaching, as well. (20+ / 0-)

    One consequence of Texas's refusal to fund education (to preserve low taxes, of course) is that the state basically can't afford to educate its own citizens.  It's hardly uncommon for young Texans to go to other states for their college educations because there isn't enough room at the two "flagship" state universities (UT, A&M) to educate everybody, and the remaining state universities are often thought to be subpar.  The University of Oklahoma is thrilled to get all those Texans rejected by UT to pay out-of-state tuition, by the way.

    It also means that any business that wishes to open in Texas and that requires highly-educated workers often finds themselves needing them to convince highly-educated workers to move in from other states.  Surely most of the businesses in Silicon Valley are well aware that convincing talented people to come even to Austin (much less, well, anywhere else in the state) is going to be a lot more difficult.

    28, white male, TX-26 (current), TN-09 (born), TN-08 (where parents live now)

    by TDDVandy on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 04:18:37 PM PST

    •  Add in the hotter summer temperatures (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      TDDVandy, gffish

      in Texas, compared to here in the Silly Con Valley (I'll continue to call that in the wake of the dot-bomb bust -- if some of those companies had spent money on R&D instead of foosball tables and high-end office chairs, they might not have gone belly up), and the fact that those folks would have to send their kids to private schools to get a decent education, and recruiting might be a bit on the difficult side.

      There's only one rule that I know of, babies -- goddammit, you've got to be kind. -- Kurt Vonnegut

      by Cali Scribe on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 04:37:33 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Eh... (8+ / 0-)
        the fact that those folks would have to send their kids to private schools to get a decent education
        I'd quibble with this pretty strongly.  In typical fashion of a state run by conservatives, Texas's public school system is more plagued by inequality than by all-around suck.  If you're a high-tech professional in the DFW area, you can just buy a house in Plano, Southlake, or Flower Mound (or a few other suburbs) and your kids will get a good education at the public schools.

        The schools for the masses suck, but the level of inequality in the school system means that there are islands where your kids will get a good education.

        28, white male, TX-26 (current), TN-09 (born), TN-08 (where parents live now)

        by TDDVandy on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 05:21:15 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  and then there's the issue (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          TDDVandy

          of defining "a good education."  I would also quibble that many of the Silicon Valley schools which top the "test results" lists and run up property values in their districts, are perhaps not as good at actually educating their students, as people  believe.

          And I've been a teacher in Silicon Valley for fourteen years, and have a daughter at Berkeley, so I have some knowledge of the topic....

          On the other hand, I have absolutely no experience or knowledge about Texas schools, and I intend to keep it that way.  :)

          "Teachers are the enemies of ignorance. If the teachers win, Rush and his allies lose." Stolen from Sidnora, 12/15/12 with thanks!

          by kmoore61 on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 06:02:00 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  On the other hand, (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          mkoz

          according to this, Texas does a better job (or maybe a less bad job) of educating lower-income and minority students than California.

          •  Which makes me wonder (0+ / 0-)

            about the damn editorial in the DMN on Friday which argued that Texas needs to do a better job of educating its citizens (but was argued from a RW perspective.)

            28, white male, TX-26 (current), TN-09 (born), TN-08 (where parents live now)

            by TDDVandy on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 08:16:28 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

    •  Is it Fox News day on Daily KOS? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mkoz

      The problem I have with these editorials is that they sound too much like Fox News, you know spouting out of date opinions as valid news analysis.

      Here are the facts.  Every Urban area in Texas voted for Obama.  All of them.  The only reason Texas does not for more liberal officials is because of idiotic posts and comments like this.  Hispanic and Black people are not dumb.  You can't insult them on one day and then expect them to be your friends the next.  That is Fox News does.  Many are in Texas because it is the one state that does not, on the whole, racially profile them and try to convict them on bogus charges, or fire police officers who report such behavior instead of the corrupt racist police officers.  Why would we want to be like the rest of the country who does not like minorities in their neighborhoods.

      Second, the only thing that makes Austin more like the rest of the country is that it is the one urban area that is almost majority white.  Not quite, but like 48% white non hispanic.

      Third, Texas is not dependent on public universities, or it so provincial that we are afraid of kids leaving the states and learning other customs.  School districts invest in software specifically to make students aware that scholarships are available to allow them to go to private colleges, out of stat, or wherever their academic desires take them.  Unless you are going to be a lawyer, UT is not going to get you anything special, and you are arguably better off having a degree from Rice than A&M.  The financial packages that Texas private universities get are often better than other states public colleges.  Which is the real issue.  When I was at University in what was quite frankly a mid rate school, the majority of those in the Honors College with me were from out of state.

      As far as High Tech goes, we have had  Texas Instruments, and Compaq.  Currently the likes of Baker Hughes and Schlumberger are practically the only companies doing high tech research and manufacturing right here in the US.  High paid jobs, high skilled, diverse, women making the same money as men jobs that everyone says they want, but because they are not in California they are not good enough.

      About the only reason I can see to live in California is to see movie stars.  Which is kind of indicative of the basic problem.  People valuing fantasy ahead of real useful work.

      •  and Dell, don't forget Dell... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        mkoz
        •  not sure if you are being sarcastic (0+ / 0-)

          But Dell is not TI or Compaq.  TI manufactured the first transistor radio and invented, along with fairchild, the integrated circuit.  What was interesting was because there was really no demand, TI created products that used the technology.  Compaq reversed engineered the IBM BIOS, and fought the legal battles, the upshot is that we no longer pay $4,000 for a basic computer.

          The upshot is that without these companies, much of what is Now Silicone Valley would not exist.  

      •  Ha! You equate Compaq (bought by HP) and Dell (0+ / 0-)

        bought out by private investors and will be out of the computer making business, just consulting.  

        Don't look now, but you have exhausted the 'but' equation of your argument.

        Texas sucks.  Always will.

  •  Both states should shut up... (9+ / 0-)

    ...or Alaska will divide itself in half and make you the 3rd and 4th largest states....

    "Wealthy the Spirit which knows its own flight. Stealthy the Hunter who slays his own fright. Blessed is the Traveler who journeys the length of the Light."

    by CanisMaximus on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 04:18:58 PM PST

  •  Wondering ... (10+ / 0-)

    why, considering that you know and care about the arena, that "climate" differential on climate change isn't within this discussion.

    Rick Perry is a climate science denier along with the Tea Hadists backing him. They are fighting meaningful action re climate change even as drought punished the state hard and sea-level rise is threatening several cities.

    California, on the other hand, has a carbon-related program (basically a cap & tax/trade program) which is raising money for accelerating clean energy programs.  

    That California is doing better economically, while putting a fee on carbon pollution, matters and should have been part of this story ...

    And, what zero call out anywhere on front page today of 35,000 (or more) marching around the White House at the anti-KXL Forward on Climate rally?  

    Blogging regularly at Get Energy Smart NOW! for a sustainable energy future.

    by A Siegel on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 04:20:07 PM PST

  •  Go away, Perry, and take that (14+ / 0-)

    vaginal ultrasound with you!  California businesses are not even vaguely interested in relocating their female employees to a state that would subject them to the forceful insertion of a vaginal probe when an abortion is needed.

    Please, go away and take your medieval nonsense with you.

    It's the Supreme Court, stupid!

    by Radiowalla on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 04:21:04 PM PST

  •  Pet peeve (35+ / 0-)
    Texas has deep-blue Austin while some inland parts of California are a startling shade of crimson
    Rrrrrgh. This always bugs me... Do you know what parts of Texas are deepest blue? The border region, including El Paso, Laredo, McAllen and Brownsville. Obama got 60% of the vote in Travis County, but 66% in El Paso, 70% in Hidalgo, 77% in Webb, and a cool 86% in Starr County. Then there are the African-American neighborhoods in places like Dallas and Houston that regularly give Dems over 95% of the vote, and (along with Hispanics) have turned Dallas County nearly as dark a shade of blue as Travis (Obama got 57% there). Harris county is also moving in that direction.

    Of course, if you only worry about white liberals, then Austin has the market cornered...

    Texas is, indeed, a politically diverse state. But the little enclave of white liberals in Austin is only a very small part of that story.

  •  The bigger irony, too (21+ / 0-)

    is that California's budgetary problems had far more to do with TABOR and the conservative movement-inspired "taxpayer revolts" than anything that liberals did.

    28, white male, TX-26 (current), TN-09 (born), TN-08 (where parents live now)

    by TDDVandy on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 04:29:29 PM PST

  •  exactly why no one should mess with.....California (5+ / 0-)
    The point is that arguing from this experience that depressing wages and dismantling regulation in America as a whole would create more jobs — which is, whatever Mr. Perry may say, what Perrynomics amounts to in practice — involves a fallacy of composition: every state can’t lure jobs away from every other state.
  •  I love California (9+ / 0-)

    and am so tired of RWs using her for a rhetorical football.  Most of the small business owners I know here who complain about taxes and regulation are driving new Mercedes, Lexus, hiring and/or expanding, remodeling their large homes and have country club memberships. I don't see them all in a mad rush to begin the exodus to Texas, even as they carp and complain. (Sigh, I live in a pretty red area of California.)

    You are my brother, my sister.

    by RoCali on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 04:30:27 PM PST

  •  Many southern states are suffering as Texas is.. (14+ / 0-)

    Florida is going further down the toilet because Governor Voldemort refuses to do anything constructive to get the state back on its feet.

    The only thing he's interested in is stealing money from the state through his front businesses, which might explain why he wants to spend 100 million dollars on re-election.

    I write a series called 'My Life as an Aspie', documenting my experiences before and after my A.S. diagnosis as a way to help fellow Aspies and parents of Aspies and spread awareness. If I help just one person by doing this, then I've served a purpose.

    by Homer177 on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 04:31:37 PM PST

    •  How much suffering are those in the South (12+ / 0-)

      willing to endure at the hands of their RW governors and legislators?  I guess we'll find out.  Here in MI we are working hard to set the stage for a big Dem comeback in 2014.  A lot of union people got sucker-punched by the Koch and DeVos backed legislators who pulled all kinds of dirty deals on taxes, school finance, creeping privatization and their crowning achievement of making MI a Right to Rot state.  And while the entire rest of the world knows that Obama's rescue of the auto industry brought MI back from the brink, the GOP here claims it was because of GOP management.  Delusional and liars.

      Building a better America with activism, cooperation, ingenuity and snacks.

      by judyms9 on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 04:45:29 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Wishing you the best of luck. It breaks my heart (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        OhioNatureMom

        to see what has happened to the state I grew up in.

        if a habitat is flooded, the improvement for target fishes increases by an infinite percentage...because a habitat suitability index that is even a tiny fraction of 1 is still infinitely higher than zero, which is the suitability of dry land to fishes.

        by mrsgoo on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 10:52:31 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  and this "gem" is also courtesy of the gov: (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Eyesbright, OhioNatureMom

      http://www.miamiherald.com/...

      tho, he's trying to back-peddal away from it as fast as he can.

      •  Remember that the war against Citizens is RW BS (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        OhioNatureMom, bluezen

        Citizens has problems, but the war against Citizens is a war against insurance regulation and an attempt to keep them as small as possible. Allstate will not sell property insurance to people for as little as Citizens does. When people are forced to stop buying from Citizens, they will not find someone who will do a better job for less or even as good a job for the same price.

        Part of the problem is just that Florida is a high-risk state. State Farm sells nearly a billion dollars' worth of homeowners insurance in Florida through a special insurance company, State Farm Florida Ins. Co., that writes  only in Florida so the rest of the company isn't endangered by any catastrophes in Florida. If State Farm Fla. isn't allowed to charge enough to match the expected risk, its bankruptcy would only hurt Floridians.

        There are too many buildings in high risk areas along the coast and we don't really know how much better the building standards are since the rules were improved. Sure, we haven't seen anything quite like Andrew in Florida for a couple of decades, but nothing Carl Hiaasen has written since then persuades me that we can trust developers to do more than required to keep the buildings safe in a CAT 4.

        Americans can make our country better.

        by freelunch on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 06:20:18 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  i don't pretend to know a lot about insurance, but (0+ / 0-)

          it seems to me, the entire idea upon which the industry is based is risk. if players in the industry don't want to pay out when policy owners incur risks for which they have taken out insurance policies against, then those players should get out of the business.

          if a company refuses to insure homeowners in fla, it shouldn't be allowed to do business in the state. period. no auto policies, no boats, planes, or anything else it's been allowed to insure in the past.

    •  Florida is a lost cause. I grew up there, and ... (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Eyesbright, ssgbryan, OhioNatureMom

      ... the crazy runs very deep.

      Penn State - Rug too small, dirtpile too big, not enough brooms.

      by WereBear Walker on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 05:19:14 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  It's the Intellect, Stupid! (11+ / 0-)

    There is one factor which I personally believe has played a role in the resurgence of California, and that is intellect, or smarts.  California is simply smarter than Texas.

    No, I am not going to bring up the zaniness of the Texas State Board of Education, although that IS a factor.  California is the seat of some pretty sharp colleges and universities -- Stanford, California at Berkeley, UCLA, to name just a few.  California is also smart in that it realizes that you have to spend money in order to make money.  Instead of relying on service cuts to fuel an economic turn-around, California was willing to raise taxes, and with this new income, the state was able to start healing its budget woes.

    My late wife and I lived in California from 1989-1996.  The state lost its golden glow by the time we got there.  We lived through rough times during the Pete Wilson era.  But by 1996, the state was starting to come back, due to the Bill Clinton economic boom throughout the country.  Now, under Jerry Brown, it is on its way back from the Schwarzenegger woes.

    In Texas, it may take a Democratic revolution to bring prosperity back, but we all know how likely that is to happen, don't we?

    •  My dog is smarter than Texas. (5+ / 0-)

      If voting made any difference it would be illegal- Philip Berrigan

      by Mighty Ike on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 04:45:04 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Your dog most certainly is smarter than Texas (7+ / 0-)

        and I've got a couple of houseplants that might be willing to give it a shot.

        If the pilot's good, see, I mean if he's reeeally sharp, he can barrel that baby in so low... oh you oughta see it sometime. It's a sight. A big plane like a '52... varrrooom! Its jet exhaust... frying chickens in the barnyard!

        by Major Kong on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 05:18:13 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I think a lot of Texans see this kind of statement (0+ / 0-)

          and take it personally as if you are talking about the people of Texas not Rick Perry or the legislature or the far right policies that have been enacted as a result of the Delay gerrymandering shenanigans.

          This whole "my state is better than yours" strikes me as kind of weird.  I like my neighborhood and my city and pretty much my state.  Are there places in Texas I wouldn't want to live?  Oh, hell, yeah!  Do I think that my 30 million fellow Texans all agree with me or should?  Nope, I don't even demand my family agree with me and I live with them.  Do I think that a "dog is smarter" than CA or TX or MN?  Well that's just silly.

          3.3 million Texans voted for Obama in 2012....give us a break!.

          by mkoz on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 11:24:48 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  I'm a lifelong California resident (7+ / 0-)

      so have seen the highs and the lows. Only way my youngest niece and nephew were able to get through college without a mountain of debt (San Jose State for the nephew, Cal for the niece plus a year at SJSU for her credential, and both spent a couple of years in community college first) was thanks to my mom's estate; my brother used part of his portion to put the kids through school.

      Doubt we'll ever get back to the policies of my childhood, where community college was tuition-free, CSU was the lower-cost 4-year alternative, and UC was for those with the grades and the money.

      There's only one rule that I know of, babies -- goddammit, you've got to be kind. -- Kurt Vonnegut

      by Cali Scribe on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 04:50:13 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  About college (14+ / 0-)

        When I went to UCB the tuition and fees were 212.50 per term--about $1,080 in current dollars, or  $3,240 a year. To make tuition, I did landscaping in the summer and got paid $3.50 an hour. When I look up what that is in the BLS inflation calculator, in today's $$ it's around $18 and hour! As an annual income that would be over $36,000 in today's money, so working for three months was the same as earning 2.7 times the tuition.

        The corporate success in killing wage growth over the last 30 years precludes education for self-motivated students, while also, far more importantly, killing the tax base that used to subsidize tuition and fees. Today's tuition and fees are about $7,500. or double the inflated 212.50. To cover that in three months of summer work now would require over $20,000 or an annual wage rate over $80,000.

        California became a hub for technology because it funded the best system of public education in the world. I am sad that young people today do not have the same opportunities because of short-sighted policy.

        Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read. Groucho Marx

        by marketgeek on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 05:39:17 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Let's not forget that Texas does some things right (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    GayHillbilly, Freakinout daily, mkoz

    Obviously, it'd be a billion times better if Republicans weren't in charge of things in Texas. But why do you think it is that Texas has grown so rapidly for decades? Part of the reason is that it's possible to build new housing there.

    Compare that to the Bay Area, which has a whole slew of growth-limiting regulations. San Francisco is obvipously a fantastic place, and tons of people would love to live there. But it's also enormously expensive. Why? Because of the NIMBYs who won't allow for new development, and the regulatory regime that sustains them. So despite being so desirable, SF grew by less than 4% from 2000-2010. I'm happy that Kos gets to enjoy it, but a lot of us couldn't afford to relocate there even if we wanted to.

    And yes, Dallas and Houston sprawl is horrific; but the downtown areas of both cities are thriving with more and more dense and mixed-use and walkable development. And if it's sprawl you're worried about, California is hardly a beacon the hill, anyways...

    •  while it is true NIMBY's can be a problem (9+ / 0-)

      in the city of SF, SF is not the largest city in the Bay Area, and it is only one of many large cities in CA. And it has unique geography, history, and challenges related to housing.

      When I lived in Fremont, a city of over 200,000, there was a ton of development. Housing is too expensive, but if the alternative is paving over every square mile of land, I'm glad folks in the Bay Area have set aside a lot of open space.

      There is a need to allow more taller buildings in the bay area outside of SF, certainly, but the Bay Area wouldn't be necessarily be better off with more pro-growth policies. Look at the valley cities that allowed tons of growth. How are they doing now? People were buying tract homes in Lodi with no idea how they were going to earn a paycheck to pay for them.

      •  Yes. (0+ / 0-)

        I'm not saying the whole state should turn into the Inland Empire, or Phoenix or something. Those places have bad development policies too! But allowing densification in urban areas would be good for cities, lower housing prices, help the economy, and allow more people to enjoy the benefits of that ridiculously edenic landscape and climate. San Francisco could easily support hundreds of thousands more people, if not for Nimbyism, and that's even more true for places like Alameda County.

        •  true (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          litho

          but I think the bigger problem is finding a way to encourage taller buildings in Fremont and San Jose. San Francisco has densified itself to epic proportions already.

        •  San Francisco's density is already 16.6k per (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          cpresley, bwren

          square mile, second only to NY's 26k in the United States.  Boston and Chicago lag behind at 13k and 12k respectively.

          San Francisco, furthermore, has an incredibly dense feel, especially in neighborhoods like the Mission.  It's a lot of people crammed into a small peninsula, and I'm not certain you really want a whole lot more crammed in there.

          When the union's inspiration /Through the workers' blood shall run /There can be no power greater /Anywhere beneath the sun /Solidarity Forever!

          by litho on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 06:04:56 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I wouldn't mind being crammed in there! (0+ / 0-)

            But I doubt the local elected officials in SF are much interested in my views.

            Anyways, if you want to limit the point to Marin and San Mateo and Santa Clara and Alameda, etc., the point still stands.

            •  I hit the goal posts you originally put up (0+ / 0-)

              If you want to keep moving them, that's up to you.

              (And, yeah, I'd love to live in SF too.  I think I'd need to hit the PowerBall to do it, though.  And I don't play...)

              When the union's inspiration /Through the workers' blood shall run /There can be no power greater /Anywhere beneath the sun /Solidarity Forever!

              by litho on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 06:38:07 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

          •  Chicago (0+ / 0-)

            has greater densities if you were to take the whole northside. There's something like 1.25 million people in 50 square miles from downtown to Evanston. San Fran has something like 49 sq. miles.

            L.A. also has surprising densities that most people don't realize exists. Although L.A. isn't as ped friendly as San Fran or many of the cities in the Northeast.

      •  And many of those folks (5+ / 0-)

        wound up commuting to Silicon Valley anyway -- increasing traffic and pollution along many of the heavier traveled corridors, or personal stress on themselves and their families.

        Mr. Scribe was a bus driver for VTA (the local bus system) for close to 30 years; many of his colleagues bought houses in the Central Valley and would live in RVs during the week parked at the bus yard, returning to their homes on the weekends (or wherever their "weekend" happened to hit, be it Saturday/Sunday or Tuesday/Wednesday). I know of a few divorces that resulted from such a living arrangement, as the defacto single parent at home grew tired of such an arrangement.

        We were content with our 1 bedroom apartment just a short drive from work for him...and now that we're involved with helping his mother, even more happy we're nearby when she needs us. Will we move out of the area when she's finally gone? Possibly -- but it's not a given. One learns to prioritize and make sacrifices when necessary.

        There's only one rule that I know of, babies -- goddammit, you've got to be kind. -- Kurt Vonnegut

        by Cali Scribe on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 05:03:44 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I knew people like that (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          mrsgoo

          I always rented a small apartment near where I worked. A few years ago I moved to Minnesota, where I now own a place, but back in the Bay Area, I never even considered those crazy commutes. I don't get why people did it.

          I knew people who took those commuter busses from deep in the central valley, getting up at 4am to do it!

          •  It's a little easier now (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            decembersue

            with the ACE (Altamont Commuter Express) trains coming from the Valley to the Valley, but it's still a bit of a trek. And I can see why bus drivers wouldn't want to make the drive to/from home every day when they already spend all day on the road. It's really tough on the family back home -- one of my favorite drivers ended up going through a divorce (he also told me after the divorce he wished I wasn't already married to a work colleague, which freaked me out just a bit...).

            There's only one rule that I know of, babies -- goddammit, you've got to be kind. -- Kurt Vonnegut

            by Cali Scribe on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 08:03:45 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

    •  Of course, in San Francisco proper (6+ / 0-)

      you're limited by geography -- I don't see too many proposals to fill in the Bay to add real estate (and considering liquefaction in earthquakes, it wouldn't be advisable anyway -- I was here for Loma Prieta in 1989).

      And the "NIMBYs" are more concerned with responsible growth -- namely taking into account the services that are needed to support said growth. Much of the opposition to development south of San Jose, for example, in the Coyote Valley region was due to the fact that there was zero transit in the area and no plans for expansion...therefore it would have been what I call a "transit dead zone" with the only access being private automobile and accompanying traffic and pollution headaches. (As a non-driver, I'm all too aware of those zones and how they've limited where I can live, work, and play.) Why not make sure the infrastructure is in place first, or will be available in the near future, before beginning a project?

      There's only one rule that I know of, babies -- goddammit, you've got to be kind. -- Kurt Vonnegut

      by Cali Scribe on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 04:57:51 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Plus Coyote Valley (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Stude Dude

        is one of the last remaining agricultural fragments of the Valley of Heart's Delight.  I'd much rather see us build up within the existing borders, than take out the very last of what was some of the best farming land anywhere.

        "Teachers are the enemies of ignorance. If the teachers win, Rush and his allies lose." Stolen from Sidnora, 12/15/12 with thanks!

        by kmoore61 on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 06:24:56 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  After watching those shows about remodeling (3+ / 0-)

      and Redoing Home Builders and Contractors F-Up's and repairing Homes I got a whole new appreciation for Regulations and strict Building Codes,if the housing in Texas was done with little or no Building Codes&Reg's then heaven help those home-owners for what is behind the Walls and under the Carpets.

      •  You're right about that. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        defluxion10

        I live in suburban Houston.  We have basically no building codes whatsoever.  We put an addition on our house a few years ago.  The contractor didn't need to pull any permits for any of it.  Luckily for us, we custom built our house, so we watched it getting built day by and and know exactly what's in it; plus we were able to add in such niceties as hurricane clips on the roof, energy efficient insulation, etc.

        I would be afraid to buy a house here if I didn't know how it was built.  I hope I never find this out, but I have a feeling if we get a good hurricane blast, my house might be the only one on the block with a roof left on it.

  •  California's "Red" Areas. (8+ / 0-)

    Almost entirely far rural, other than Orange County (which is purple).

    The only city in CA that's red is Bakersfield (even Fresno in the heart of the most reactionary part of the state, is a blue city).

    What really hurts Texas isn't even mentioned here--a fair amount of the intelligent/idea community will not relocate anywhere dominated by fundamentalism. The gut reaction to that kind of mindless mega-churchery is completely negative.

    NEW SINGLE! http://johnnyangelwendell.bandcamp.com/

    by Johnny Wendell on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 04:44:40 PM PST

  •  200 vs 20 (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Eyesbright

    And they say Texans aren't bad at math.

  •  Tejas, Not Exactly What You Might Think (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    al23, Fairlithe, mkoz

    I live in Northern California these days, but in the spring of 1973 a friend and I hitchhiked from Tuscon to New Orleans.  It took us 13 rides to get from El Paso to the Louisiana Border.  Ten of those rides turned us on.  

    I still remember riding across Houston with a guy delivering flowers, smoking a couple of joints along the way.

    The spirit and the solidarity of the counter culture lasted longer in Texas than it did in most other places.

    Best roadside diner food in the country.

    This aggression will not stand, man.

    by kaleidescope on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 04:48:45 PM PST

  •  Making the case (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jck

    What Perry is doing, trying to pilfer business from other states, is nothing new.  The competition between states for economic growth is good for capitalism.  But what this really shows is that what this nation needs is to go back to a more progressive taxation system.  With a progressive tax, states would not need to undercut each other with the promise of low tax rates because every state would be able to lower taxes across the board.  With lower rates, states will have to recruit businesses based on education levels, environmental protections, and labor laws.  The idea that low taxes and laws that cater to business is a good thing is misleading, giving people false hope about economic development by forcing them to choose between sub-par conditions or unemployment.

    Send a wire to the main office. Tell them I said...OWWW!

    by meleweb2 on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 04:53:26 PM PST

  •  Texas' job strategy: The definition of Mooching. (8+ / 0-)

    Can't create jobs yourself, just try to suck them away from others with bribes and slave labor.

    Pour yourself into the future.

    by Troubadour on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 04:57:37 PM PST

  •  Unintended consequences? (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TDDVandy, Eyesbright, m00finsan, jck

    Disclosure - moved from California to Texas back in the '70s. It was not intended to be permanent, but CA housing costs went out of control, so...

    Today's Dallas Morning News includes some LTE's on Guv Goodhairs poaching campaign.

    Californians are by and large Democrats, and they turned California the way it is by voting the way they do. They ruined their own state and are now trying to flee the results of their own actions. If you bring them here, odds are they will continue to vote Democrat, and soon they will vote you out, turn Texas into California and, by the looks of the rest of the country, we will have nowhere to run.
    Why spend more money educating Texans? Let someone else provide the educated population we need.

    But if he is successful, you will get the last laugh. The progressives there will be here, and Texas will become a blue state again.

    http://letterstotheeditorblog.dallasnews.com/...

    "No one life is more important than another. No one voice is more valid than another. Each life is a treasure. Each voice deserves to be heard." Patriot Daily News Clearinghouse & Onomastic

    by Catte Nappe on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 05:13:21 PM PST

    •  heh... dumbasses. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Catte Nappe

      Then again, I expect nothing less from the DMN's letters to the editor.  Do liberals never write in, or does the DMN just never find the space to print letters that aren't from angry wingnuts?

      28, white male, TX-26 (current), TN-09 (born), TN-08 (where parents live now)

      by TDDVandy on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 05:28:08 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Check the link (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        TDDVandy

        Liberal views are equally represented, and it may be that the second blockquote may come from one, as well.

        "No one life is more important than another. No one voice is more valid than another. Each life is a treasure. Each voice deserves to be heard." Patriot Daily News Clearinghouse & Onomastic

        by Catte Nappe on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 05:32:11 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Oh, right. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Catte Nappe

          But then there's this:

          Every newspaper and politician in California can make fun of Perry, but in the end, their criticism only acerbates the situation, and the poor souls trying to conduct business in a hostile environment will hear the message.
          Of course he's from Plano.  I'm sure he's a joy to know.

          28, white male, TX-26 (current), TN-09 (born), TN-08 (where parents live now)

          by TDDVandy on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 05:34:44 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  Zombie Economics Texas Style nt (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    sfsteach

    I want 1 less Tiny Coffin, Why Don't You? Support The President's Gun Violence Plan.

    by JML9999 on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 05:14:37 PM PST

  •  What makes Rick Perry think that (8+ / 0-)

    his little race to the bottom is going to stop in Texas?

    If a company will move to Texas for cheap labor and fewer regulations, there's little to stop it from moving a bit further south to Monterrey.

    If the pilot's good, see, I mean if he's reeeally sharp, he can barrel that baby in so low... oh you oughta see it sometime. It's a sight. A big plane like a '52... varrrooom! Its jet exhaust... frying chickens in the barnyard!

    by Major Kong on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 05:14:48 PM PST

  •  Hammer meets nail: (10+ / 0-)
    If Gov. Perry wants to recruit high-tech businesses from California to Texas, perhaps he should stop spending time in California making a failed sales pitch and spend more time at home fixing his state's poverty crisis and broken education system
    EXACTLY!

    ...and stop making the rest of the country beholden to the Texas Board of Education's goddamn text book selections, too!!!

    "The most potent weapon in the hands of the oppressor is the mind of the oppressed." ~ Steven Biko

    by Marjmar on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 05:16:24 PM PST

  •  And the job growth that he boasted (6+ / 0-)

    about during the campaign turned out to be government or public sector jobs.  

    I don't know how he ever got elected or why the people there would re-elect him.


    The religious fanatics didn't buy the republican party because it was virtuous, they bought it because it was for sale

    by nupstateny on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 05:23:10 PM PST

  •  Really makes you appreciate LBJ (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Fairlithe, jck, mrsgoo

    He had his bad points, but he did a lot of good things - and most importantly, he WASN'T an idiot. WTF happened in Tejas?

    New Arizona State Motto; "Yeah, but it's a dry hate!"

    by Fordmandalay on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 05:24:57 PM PST

    •  To answer that (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Stude Dude, mrsgoo

      You have to understand that LBJ's record as President was not predictable from his record as Senator.

      LBJ was always a New Deal Democrat, but when he was representing Texas in the Senate he was no progressive on civil rights.

      Also, in LBJ's time the GOP had yet to start using cultural issues as a wedge, and there were a lot more people who still reflexively voted for Democrats.

      28, white male, TX-26 (current), TN-09 (born), TN-08 (where parents live now)

      by TDDVandy on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 05:38:14 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Checking in from Houston (5+ / 0-)

    A transplant by way of NYC, the Midwest and Seattle.  Many folks who live in Houston are progressive and many of us can live anywhere.  But we won't stay in a place in which right wing lunacy overrules rational thought, a modicum of fairness and economic development that punishes the old and the poor.  Unlike Rick Perry and his Texas Taliban most of us have a conscience.  I will happily leave my drop dead awesome job in Houston and  bag groceries in Stater Brother's in Riverside, Cali. if need be.  

    For now, I'll stick around to fight.   For awhile, as long as Texas voters step up and put an end to the corruption and unbelievable greed that has been visited upon the once great state of Texas.

  •  Minor edits (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jck, jayden, mrsgoo

    1.   Perry was informed ahead of the recession that his budget was going to crash and burn by Carol Strayhorn, TX State Comptroller in 2006.

    http://readersupportednews.org/...

    2.   Perry originally refused to use the "rainy day fund" but partially caved in 2012.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...

  •  Attracting jobs wasn't the point of the trip. (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TDDVandy, ssgbryan, jayden, mrsgoo

    A California vacation on the state's dime was.

  •  Employment is 100% if you're a slave. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TDDVandy, mrsgoo

    But then what the hell's the point?

    Pour yourself into the future.

    by Troubadour on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 05:54:55 PM PST

  •  I must have missed it... (0+ / 0-)

    where does the blog entry show that the Texas economic miracle is a "mirage"?

    By no means am I a fan of Texan economic or social policy. It's certainly not the kind of balance that I would consider healthy and if we were to focus strictly on economic data, Texas is actually not performing poorly. Not at all.

    Then again, the problem with Texas has not been economic. It's how the state will completely ignore their poor, their uninsured and its environment at the expense of business "friendliness".

    •  It is a mirage.. (0+ / 0-)

      Perry used federal funds to balance his State budget shortfall... Another thing that nobody mentions in this thread is there is a HUGE amount of drug money being laundered and spent in Texas..

    •  Texas has a great economy (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ssgbryan, mrsgoo

      if you want to work at Chik-fil-a.

      Texas is tied with Mississippi for highest percentage of minimum to below-minimum wage workers.

      If the pilot's good, see, I mean if he's reeeally sharp, he can barrel that baby in so low... oh you oughta see it sometime. It's a sight. A big plane like a '52... varrrooom! Its jet exhaust... frying chickens in the barnyard!

      by Major Kong on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 07:53:08 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  meh (0+ / 0-)

        how about the hundreds of thousands who work in technology or other higher paying jobs?

        Look, I live in NYC and there are plenty of people worse off due to the much higher cost of living in this region + high prevalence of low-paying jobs.

        •  Then you'd have a good paying job (0+ / 0-)

          but you'd still be stuck in.......Texas.

          Which is a nice enough place, except for being full of Texans.

          If the pilot's good, see, I mean if he's reeeally sharp, he can barrel that baby in so low... oh you oughta see it sometime. It's a sight. A big plane like a '52... varrrooom! Its jet exhaust... frying chickens in the barnyard!

          by Major Kong on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 11:53:25 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  As a professor, I avoid all TX conference venues.. (0+ / 0-)

    Just not a fan. Now, I have never been to Austin and would try it, but mostly I don't like Texas attitudes and cannot imagine living in a state with Perry, Cruz, and Cornyn.

    •  I think most Texan cities... (0+ / 0-)

      have something of value. Houston's art venues are really good (Rothko Chapel and the Menil Collection are great venues).

      Austin is great because of the music scene and outdoor lifestyle. Unfortunately sprawl has paved over a lot of truly beautiful scenery.

      And like most of America, the inner cities are fairly moderate to liberal. But like you, I stay away from that state these days.

  •  Helpful factual article (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mrsgoo

    This from a recent issue of the Sacramento Bee:

    "Texas vs. California:  Here's a Reality Check"

    I think Maiman's right:  This is all just some Rick Perry political stunt.

    "Equal rights for gays." Yeah, it's just that simple.

    by planmeister on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 07:40:35 PM PST

  •  Twenty years in Dallas (0+ / 0-)

    As a Texas native, relocated to the Seattle area I have seen the good and bad of The Lone Star State. The cities and the Rio Grande Vally are turning bluer every day, but everywhere else is rock ribbed reactionary racist Republican.  I prefer the Puget Sound because we can live without air conditioning and the state actually makes stuff. Perry is a Southern opportunist of the worst sort. He makes his bones by attacking "The Other" and that sells in some parts of the state.

  •  Time out (0+ / 0-)
    When that ran out and the economic crisis finally showed its full effects, the state faced a crippling budget deficit of $27 billion, and was forced to make massive cuts to Medicaid and education to stay afloat.
    The first part is true. The second part is not. The State chose to cut those it wasn't forced to. There were rainy day funds and other approaches available to prevent massive cuts to Medicaid and education. The Republicans used the deficit as an excuse to cut those.

    "Mr. President, I'm not saying we wouldn't get our hair mussed." General Buck Turgidson

    by muledriver on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 07:52:30 PM PST

  •  As a Utahn, (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mrsgoo

    It's interesting to see the rivalry between Texas and California, because my state embodies both Texas and California. Most of Utah, and of Utah's governing officials want to be Texas (in terms of poaching jobs from other states, fossil fuel utopia dreams, conservative viewpoints, anti-minority thoughts), except for Salt Lake City, which wants to be California (environmental/green focus, diversity, liberal values). Kind of fun to see the contrast.

    Of course, most out-of-staters (including businesses and minorities) want to live in SLC, so that goes to show which is probably better.

    Leftist Mormon in Utah, Born in Washington State, live in UT-04 (Matheson).

    by Gygaxian on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 08:18:28 PM PST

  •  254 (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mrsgoo

    I keep hearing about these 254 businesses that left California for greener pastures in 2011.
    Can anyone give us a rundown about these businesses? Were they high tech or manual labor? Did they go to Texas? Did they leave for lower taxes and regulations, or for other reasons?

    Hate Speech must remain legal. It reminds us that the hate is still out there.

    by SmallTownHick on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 09:21:55 PM PST

  •  Got Water? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mrsgoo

    when is someone going to stand up to RP and say, "got water?"  do the industries that he wants to take back to TX need water?  do the employees need water?  does the increase in population from the business he wants to steal need to drink/use water?
    texas has a drought and also an energy policy that uses precious water for fracking.  
    (even tho CA fracks and wastes water, the process is not as wasteful.  it still pollutes, tho!

    In parts of Texas, fracking a well often takes 6 million gallons.
    But in California, where fracking is starting to spread, the average amount of water involved is just 164,000 gallons, according to industry data.

    Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/...

    "A dollah makes me hollah"-- Stephen Colbert, pretending to be S. Palin

    by stagemom on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 09:23:50 PM PST

    •  IMHO water is going to the the sleeper issue that (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      stagemom

      all of a sudden is going to leap to the top of the list. TX is heading for a world of hurt on water. CA has plenty (sorta) but it falls in the north and the central valley wants it all. Climate change will really drag water front and center.

      if a habitat is flooded, the improvement for target fishes increases by an infinite percentage...because a habitat suitability index that is even a tiny fraction of 1 is still infinitely higher than zero, which is the suitability of dry land to fishes.

      by mrsgoo on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 11:11:40 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Clowns!! (0+ / 0-)

    Did you think that businesses would pack their bags and fly back with him?? Any intelligent business man would quietly weigh his options and make his move when right for his company. You may never know whether Perry had success but the stats clearly show people are moving from California to Texas but few to no people from Texas are moving to the Liberal Capital where babies are being murdered by the thousands and the men are sleeping with each other. Yea, you can keep that in California.

    •  Hey! look what crawled out from under the rocks! (2+ / 0-)

      Anybody that wants to move from CA to TX is cool in my books. And if you live in TX and espouse YOUR views - please stay there. And exactly where in CA are "babies are being murdered by the thousands"? Please cite your source. Murder is illegal in CA.

      Oh and - I bet men are sleeping with each other in TX too.

      if a habitat is flooded, the improvement for target fishes increases by an infinite percentage...because a habitat suitability index that is even a tiny fraction of 1 is still infinitely higher than zero, which is the suitability of dry land to fishes.

      by mrsgoo on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 11:18:06 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Take away the weather (0+ / 0-)

    If California did not have their weather, Ocean and scenery half the people would not tolerate the ignorance of the State.

    •  We have a saying here in Northern CA (2+ / 0-)

      The Bay is half your pay!

      heehee! Dear LibsSuk, those of us living in the environmental, cultural and business paradise of Northern CA like it the way it is. In fact, we like it soooo much we voted to INCREASE our taxes to keep it that way.

      I know that fact makes your poor little mind asplode, because you believe that government should be limited and small. Except that part about forcing women to give birth against their  wishes. Government small enough to fit in every womans vagina and all.

      Where do you live LibsSuk? Bring on the argument. KThx. Look forward to it.

      if a habitat is flooded, the improvement for target fishes increases by an infinite percentage...because a habitat suitability index that is even a tiny fraction of 1 is still infinitely higher than zero, which is the suitability of dry land to fishes.

      by mrsgoo on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 11:27:32 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Austin (0+ / 0-)

    Many California businesses move to Texas but choose Austin.  Why" Because progressives in Austin have maintained building standards, protect the environment, invest in medical centers, public services, education.  All the things they have to fight those at the capital to do.  

    Funny thing, those legislators that vote for crap businesses and pollution also love Austin.  They live here very often even when the legislators are not in session (have condos/lakehouses).  I mean, who wants to live in an oil / chemical plant if they don't have to for work?

    I know I didn't.  I grew up with that and I have no desire to set foot in that town again.  Viva Le Austin.

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