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What is it with private corporations these days?  During an era where we see bills introduced giving corporations voting rights while we see other bills introduced making it harder for the elderly, the disabled and minorities to vote.

Now we see Space X in the new millennium participating with a new type of Manifest Destiny and it’s rearing it’s ugly ahead again with the attempt to take land away from the indigenous, David Ruiz (part of the Cisneros family) and others.  A Rio Grand Valley reporter shows the documents provided by the Cisnero family and the Cisnero family has made contact with the federal government to this regard.  Steps are currently being taken in the legal arena to protect private land owners.

Why can’t Space X pick land that is for sale?

Why do they want land that is owned and protected by treaties?

The initial purpose of the Adams-Onis Treaty had much to do with stopping raids of the Native Americans and/or the indigenous.  According to the Library of Congress, “The Adams-Onís Treaty was negotiated in response to Andrew Jackson’s incursion into Florida to stop the raids of the Seminole Indians on U.S. settlements along the border. Signed on February 22, 1819, and ratified by the United States in 1821, the treaty granted to the United States Florida and former Spanish territory west of the Sabine River, along a new boundary line north of Texas, New Mexico, Utah, Nevada, and California.”

The Adams-Onis Treaty isn’t the only treaty we have our eyes on ….we want to ensure the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo is maintained, followed and respected, too.  According to the Library of U.S. Congress, “The Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo was signed by the United States and Mexico on February 2, 1848, ending the Mexican War and extending the boundaries of the United States by over 525,000 square miles. In addition to establishing the Rio Grande as the border between the two countries, the territory acquired by the U.S. included what will become the states of Texas, California, Nevada, Utah, most of New Mexico and Arizona, and parts of Colorado and Wyoming. In exchange Mexico received fifteen million dollars in compensation for the territory and the U.S. agreed to assume claims from private citizens of these areas against the Mexican government.”

From the Rio Grand Valley News:

   

SpaceX, the privately owned company out of California could be launching off in the future from property near Boca Chica beach. Brownsville, Florida, and Puerto Rico are in the running for the launch site.

    “What we don’t want is private industries and private corporations to come in and run our lands.” said Cameron County resident David Ruiz.

    David Ruiz is part of the Cisneros family, and he claims the proposed SpaceX launch site is on that family’s property.

    “We we born and raised here and we love this area this is our own.”

    Ruiz says the land is protected by a 19th century treaty.

    “Protected by the federal government through the Adams Onis treaty, it goes back to 1819 and my purpose here is we are trying to tell county government, the state, and city of Brownsville, that these lands are privately owned by the Cisneros family.”

    Dr. Anthony Knopp is a history professor at the University of Texas at Brownsville who is familiar with the Adams Onis treaty.

   FULL STORY >>>

Manifest Destiny Map photo manifest.jpg

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Comment Preferences

  •  Tip Jar (4+ / 1-)
    Recommended by:
    PatriciaVa, Bob Love, walkshills, mythatsme
    Hidden by:
    Eyesbright

    Because Tequila is stronger than Tea. The Tequila Party is a Latina-led counter movement to the Tea Party extremists.

    by Dose of Tequila on Mon Feb 25, 2013 at 11:40:39 AM PST

  •  width="100%" (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    walkshills, DaNang65, oortdust

  •  Many of the same liberals who would protest.. (0+ / 0-)

    ...climate change inaction are supporting this proposed taxpayer-subsidized spaceport.

    Lost to them is the irony of supporting a venture which will enable a few very affluent Americans emit as much CO2 in a few minutes in their "voyage" to subspace as they would during a 5.5 hour LA to Boston flight.

    Learn about Centrist Economics, learn about Robert Rubin's Hamilton Project. www.hamiltonproject.org

    by PatriciaVa on Mon Feb 25, 2013 at 12:03:27 PM PST

    •  Leaving aside that this particular diary (7+ / 0-)

      is complete bullshit, it's worth addressing the value of a spaceport - particularly one operated by SpaceX.  There is not a single possible use for that land remotely as important to the future of this country and the world, and the CO2 emitted by rocket launches even at ten times the current launch rate is a ridiculously trivial percentage of what is emitted on Texas roads doing utterly meaningless, mundane things.  Attacking spaceflight on the basis greenhouse gas emissions is the silliest nonsense.

      How can it be a "free" market if you're forced to work for it?

      by Troubadour on Mon Feb 25, 2013 at 12:28:50 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Not ironic (3+ / 0-)

      Space exploration, and science in general, is important. It is important as a driver of technology. It is important as a source of increased knowledge about our own world and resources. And, eventually, it is important as a means to spread humanity beyond our Pale Blue Dot to safeguard civilization and our species in the case of catastrophe, whether that catastrophe be natural or otherwise.

      All of these goals are compatible with the liberal political stance; indeed, science and technology are (or ought be) planks of liberal thought.

      Climate change is a serious threat. Cutting CO2 emissions is a laudable, even necessary, goal. However, that does not mean that every new endeavor that will add (minimally, at that) to the atmospheric CO2 balance should be met with kneejerk opposition.

      These goals are not in conflict. There is no irony here.

      "All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others." -Douglas Adams

      by Serpents Choice on Mon Feb 25, 2013 at 12:34:27 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Nothing wrong with Govt space exploration (0+ / 0-)

        Civilian joyrides to the subspace through a profit-seeking enterprise are altogether different.

        You don't want me to take civilian joyriding to task?

        Then don't castigate me when I argue that the working and middle-class families have a right to cheap (i.e. w/o a carbon tax or cap and trade tax) energy.

        Yet, when I argue that, given wealth and income inequality at levels last seen in 1929, the last thing that the US needs is an energy tax, so many of you respond that I "don't get it".

        Learn about Centrist Economics, learn about Robert Rubin's Hamilton Project. www.hamiltonproject.org

        by PatriciaVa on Mon Feb 25, 2013 at 12:59:09 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Um. (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Roger Fox, MRobDC, Eyesbright, Victor Ward

          Look, I rail against corporate power as much as anyone else, but just because a corporation does it, doesn't make it bad. The US government is ... not good at science, especially big-ticket science, and hasn't been for a long time. Space X is already providing cargo costs to LEO at a cheaper per-kilogram price than the Shuttle program was.  A program, you'll note, which has been discontinued.

          If you'd rather the government did all that, awesome. So would, I. Frankly, I'd like the government to do a lot of things because I'm a socialist. In the real world, though, that's not happening. So we'll go with corporate partnerships. Don't let the good be the enemy of the perfect.

          As for the comparison between energy policy and space exploration... or the contribution of private space exploration to income inequality... there is no comparison. These are not competing zero-sum interests. Because you seem to think they are, I'm forced to conclude that, yes, you don't get it.

          "All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others." -Douglas Adams

          by Serpents Choice on Mon Feb 25, 2013 at 01:22:45 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  So this guy just claims to own the land...? (7+ / 0-)

    Just because? He has no documentation that proves he owns the land. A treaty did not grant his family ownership of any land, and that is the only basis for the claim that he cites.

    Also, your link about giving corporations the right to vote says nothing about giving corporations the right to vote...

    •  title (0+ / 0-)

      You will hear the reporter (near the end of the Channel 23 video) confirm she saw the documentation of the land owner claims.

      Because Tequila is stronger than Tea. The Tequila Party is a Latina-led counter movement to the Tea Party extremists.

      by Dose of Tequila on Mon Feb 25, 2013 at 12:21:42 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I don't care what a reporter says (5+ / 0-)

        The judge they questioned says they haven't produced any documentation and that there are no records of the family every having paid taxes on the property in question.

        Ruiz adds says his family does not have to pay property taxes because they are paid by the state and federal government.
        How can I get the state and federal government to pay my local property taxes for me?
  •  I'm calling bullshit on this. (7+ / 0-)

    The link states that Cisernos has not provided any documentation of ever having owned the land, let alone presently owning it, and quotes an expert on the cited treaty as saying it has nothing to do with the land in question.

    How can it be a "free" market if you're forced to work for it?

    by Troubadour on Mon Feb 25, 2013 at 12:09:44 PM PST

  •  Meh rated. (6+ / 0-)

    This guy's claims are facially absurd; 19th century treaties do not, generally speaking, dictate land ownership 200 years later. In this case, they most assuredly do not.

    It would be one thing if the claimant had some actual evidence of ownership, and was paying taxes on the property (instead of, well ... I'll quote NBC here: "Ruiz adds says his family does not have to pay property taxes because they are paid by the state and federal government."). If this were one of the real cases of government seizure of private land for another private purpose in a somewhat tortured reading of eminent domain, that would be a reasonable thing to diary about.

    This isn't.

    It's not.

    Between the nonsense level of the claim and the diary's weird segue into Manifest Destiny, this is pretty nonsensical. I'm not quite able to conjure the wherewithal to hide rate this because I think it stops just short of HR-for-CT land, but it's tempting.

    So, instead, meh.

    "All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others." -Douglas Adams

    by Serpents Choice on Mon Feb 25, 2013 at 12:42:15 PM PST

  •  Who would want a spaceport on a spit of land (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Karl Rover

    at the mouth of the Rio Grande which can be altered by floods and is particularly prone to violent tropical storms and hurricanes, and on an international border no less.  

    Lots of problems with security and stability over time.

    There's plenty of land in Texas with better geologic stability and fewer severe weather threats, at least from hurricanes and tropical storms.

    Much of that land at the mouth of the Rio Grande is either state park or federal (Padre Is. National Seashore).

    Treaties did dictate some land ownership due to the conflicting claims of Spanish Land Grants, Mexican land grants (1821-36) and American settlers who had their own grants from Mexico and who also had bought old Spanish land grants, plus there were disputed and new borders. (Mexico had claimed the Nueces River, not the Rio Grande, was the border after the Texas Revolution and those claims played a role in several Mexican incursions as far north as San Antonio [Battle of Salado] and the later Mexican-American War.) Hell, it was all about land.

    The truth is we are tortured by the truth.

    by walkshills on Mon Feb 25, 2013 at 03:19:44 PM PST

  •  HR'd for CT n/t (0+ / 0-)

    To stand in silence when they should be protesting makes cowards out of men. -Abraham Lincoln

    by Eyesbright on Mon Feb 25, 2013 at 03:58:45 PM PST

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