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A photograph of a fertilized human egg
Nope, still not a person
In 2011, the fetus-worshipping cult known as Personhood USA tried to get Mississippians to vote on Amendment 26, which would have, through the miracle of modern anti-science, turned a fertilized egg into a full-grown person, with more rights and protections than the woman carrying it.

Fortunately for women, science and the dignity of the state of Mississippi, voters told the cultists to suck it, and the measure was defeated. Just like it was defeated in Colorado—twice. So of course the cultists are back to try again, as Kate Sheppard at Mother Jones reports:

On Tuesday, the group's Mississippi chapter announced that it is working to get personhood back on the ballot. The Associated Press reports that the group filed paperwork with the secretary of state's office on Tuesday in hopes of getting it on the 2015 ballot[.]
When these nuts can't even get their dream legislation passed in Mississippi, a state that is plenty hostile to women's reproductive rights, you'd think they might take the hint and realize it just ain't gonna happen. But these people are crazy and stupid, so lucky you, Mississippi, you might get your chance to tell them to suck it all over again.

Originally posted to Kaili Joy Gray on Wed Mar 06, 2013 at 10:34 AM PST.

Also republished by Abortion, Pro Choice, and Daily Kos.

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Comment Preferences

  •  ZOMG my brother from another mother! (11+ / 0-)

    Warning - some snark above‽ (-9.50; -7.03)‽ eState4Column5©2013

    by annieli on Wed Mar 06, 2013 at 10:37:49 AM PST

    •  Fetus at 12 weeks, legal to abort in all 50 states (2+ / 5-)

      Totally not human at all, not even a little bit. What sort of anti-science, fundy, retard would think that it resembles anything like a person.

      •  It's the size of a frigging PLUM. Around 2 inches (17+ / 0-)

        from crown to rump. And there are no higher brain functions until a  LOT later. Here's accurate info

        http://pregnant.thebump.com/...

        Your "picture" is nowhere near the reality. Guess you're getting your info from anti-choice sites which like to claim that a fetus at a much later stage of devt. is first trimester.

        In any case, it ain't your choice unless it's YOUR uterus.

        The last time we mixed religion and politics people got burned at the stake.

        by irishwitch on Wed Mar 06, 2013 at 01:11:57 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I got it from searching for 12 week fetus and (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          BrandonW1991

          used the result from University of Maryland medical center. http://www.umm.edu/...

          As you move into the second trimester, baby shifts into the growth and maturation stage. After weeks in the critical development stage, almost all of baby's systems are fully formed.
          From your link.
          •  first trimester (7+ / 0-)

            Warning - some snark above‽ (-9.50; -7.03)‽ eState4Column5©2013

            by annieli on Wed Mar 06, 2013 at 02:18:35 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  But chose not to tell people (8+ / 0-)

            that it's TWO FUCKING INCHES--not the size on the graphic you posted. THAT is where the lying came from--and I think it was intentional deception.

            The last time we mixed religion and politics people got burned at the stake.

            by irishwitch on Wed Mar 06, 2013 at 07:20:46 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  I dunno what size monitor you are using (0+ / 0-)

              but on mine, the size of the graphic on mine is 2-3"

              •  Translation: I know I'm a liar (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                irishwitch

                but bitches ain't shit!

                •  That about sums it up. (0+ / 0-)

                  The last time we mixed religion and politics people got burned at the stake.

                  by irishwitch on Thu Mar 07, 2013 at 11:29:32 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                •  So is the picture wrong or not? (0+ / 0-)

                  If it is, then you better tell those anti-choicers at UM Medical center to change their drawings.

                  Please feel free use whatever mental gymnastics make you feel most comfortable.

                  •  I was using a normal desktop monitor. (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    LadyMiseryAli

                    If you saw it as two inches, it must have been on something a LOT smaller.

                    And you and BrandonW can take your anti-choice rhetoric and stuff it the orifice of choice. Because something the size of a plum is  at best a potential human being. It barely has a brain, and nothing resembling higher brain function (which to me is what makes us human) nor is it even close to viable outside the womb.  At this stage it is a parasite, depending on the mother/host for everything form food to blood to make its heart beat.  Call me back when it can survive outside the womb.  

                    FYI A WOMAN is a human being which is already here and surviving without the help of a host. But SHE doesn't matter to you as much as this plum-sized vaguely human creature.  You value fetuses much more than you did women which says a lot about you and your budy BrandonW.

                    And unlike both of you I've had to think about this in real terms because I had to think about abortion for myself. First time, I was 24 in 1873 and single motherhood was only for Hollywood stars.  The rest of us got fired for it, unless we were divorced.  And on 8 grand a year, which was my gigantic salary, which paid for food and bus fare and my apt. and utilities and very little else, I could barely support myself, let alone a child.  You see, back then, even women with a double master's tended to get stuck in secretarial jobs because women weren't hired for much else.  So when I missed a period, I thought about options and concluded that abortion was the only sane, rational choice. Because  I couldn't raise a child. PERIOD.  Turned out it was a Pill malfunction--YES, I was on the pill at the time.

                    Second time I was married, ill and unemployed.  My husband and I decided together to termiante.  I was pregnant, it turns out--but miscarried the day before i could get it confirmed.  You DO know that many pregnancies end  in spontaneous abortions. A lot of them shortly after or even before they're confirmed. They are often not recognized as miscarriages, just viewed, with a  sigh of relief, as a late period.

                    The last time we mixed religion and politics people got burned at the stake.

                    by irishwitch on Thu Mar 07, 2013 at 08:37:01 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

      •  Damn it, that's the third forced-birther troll (15+ / 0-)

        I've run across in the last 24 hours. I'm all out of pastry.

        You can't assassinate the character of any of modern conservative. You'd have to find where it was buried, dig it up, resurrect it, then kill it. And killing a zombie isn't really assassination, is it?

        by ontheleftcoast on Wed Mar 06, 2013 at 01:48:25 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Is it present inside your body, growing entirely (10+ / 0-)

        off your system?

        If not, please leave the room.

        "So, please stay where you are. Don't move and don't panic. Don't take off your shoes! Jobs is on the way."

        by wader on Wed Mar 06, 2013 at 07:11:55 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  It's not a one-person investment, though. (0+ / 0-)

          ... and there I go again objectifying the unborn...

          •  Are you speaking about the sperm's (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Alexandre, irishwitch

            contribution?

            If so, I was supporting my spouse during her two pregnancies and made it clear to her that I had no direct say or control over her body.  Just like in any relationship.

            I attempted to provide support if/when she accepted such, and further made it clear that I might suggest things but assumed nothing beyond that.  She was generous and considerate enough to ask for various forms of help and advice concerning her pregnancy because we both worked for those pregnancies, but she could have aborted at any point and I would have been supporting her just the same up through that possibility.

            It wasn't my body.

            Since each birth, we have equal responsibilities for the health and well-being of these - our - kids.  Before their respective births, everything was just a possibility.

            "So, please stay where you are. Don't move and don't panic. Don't take off your shoes! Jobs is on the way."

            by wader on Wed Mar 06, 2013 at 08:06:35 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  really? Are you carrying it? (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Pandoras Box, irishwitch

            If not, STFU.

      •  Looks human, true BUT (8+ / 0-)

        SINCE what makes a human being truly human is his big huge brain and what it does...including Conciousness...
        he is not human.

        If you opened him up you would see his brain looks like the brain of many mammals. It does not have many gyri and sulci (the folds and valleys). It also does not have many of the myriad connections between nerves and parts of the brain to make it function anything like a BORN human being.

        Science tells us that this human looking and thus emotionally- adorable- to many of us being is NOT ANY MORE COMPLEX than a mouse embryo. OR if you will, a mouse.

        Using pure reason, without emotion or religious belief, if you are not adverse to killing (or allowing others) to kill a mouse than you should not be adverse to killing (or ESPECIALLY allowing others to kill) this human embryo/fetus (at that age iirc he's on the line)

        --a scientist who also (side job) worked in an abortion clinic for 7 yrs.

        •  IMO if you're going to kill any entity (0+ / 0-)

          it better be for 2 reasons: Self-defense or food

          •  Self-defense? (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Ahianne, sngmama, Guile Of The Gods

            Well if something or someone is invading your space and refusing to leave, you do have the right to remove the entity/person, even if that results in their death.

            I would consider a z/e/f to be an intruder if the woman wasn't intending on conceiving, or if she was raped. Ergo, she has the right to an abortion to remove the z/e/f.

            So in a way, an abortion can be seen as self-defense. The woman is defending her right to NOT have a fetus leeching off her body, by removing said fetus.  

            •  perfect response (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              LadyMiseryAli

              there are many that think a woman should not abort even if her health or life were in danger.
              That is self defense.

              In Judaism, Jewish law is continually inerpretted. I've seen Rabbi's give moral advice to pregnant women  based on that idea...

              one is allowed to kill to either help save his life or to save the life of others.

          •  So, in other words (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            irishwitch, jplanner, LadyMiseryAli

            if someone is using my body against my will, I have the right to get rid of them?

            I completely agree.

            •  So now its a "someone" (0+ / 0-)

              That's dangerously close to human. You had more stable footing when you stuck with "it"

              •  someone is the analogy part (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                LadyMiseryAli

                also there is not a reason to call an embryo a thing in a black and white way. It is not the same as a born person, but it is alive just as the embryos of mice are...or grown mice.

                ALso, human embryos are potential human life. A living "what if". (again, they are alive but not autonomous even as an adult mouse, as they are completely dependant on the mother's body and can't survive themselves). Even if you know that aborting a 12 week old embryo with a brain as complex as a mouse is not murder, it does not mean that you wouldn't be sad.
                For one thing, you are taking life from something that is a live (I hate the kind of mouse traps that kill for that reason).

                Secondly ending this life at that early stage snuffs out a potentiality of what it could become...snuffs out a chance of what if...I think that's one main reason abortion is a hard choice to make for many women.

                Many women, if not most, are in fact sad in my experience to get an abortion. It is very often the better of what feels like two bad choices for them.
                Many on the prochoice side don't like to talk about the fact that we are in fact killng a live being because your anti Choice side has co-opted the words "Pro Life"...meaning that we who want women to have abortion available as an option are AntiLife. And you stick stuff at us like above that is not quite right/true.

                You show a picture of a fetus and sarcastially say 'is it human being" as if it's obvious to you or anyone as if what it looks like on the outside matters...really it's what is going on in the inside that makes it human.

                Poster say someone and you get all excited as if they are admitting something...while they were echoing an analogy someone else made.

                People who are proChoice are pro Life for women.
                Women's lives are irrevocably changed by carrying a pregnancy to term and giving birth. Women who get abortions make the calculation for their own particular lives that pregnancy and birth will the worse choice.

          •  So don't join the military. (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            LadyMiseryAli, jplanner

            But keep YOUR  morals off other people's bodies.

            The last time we mixed religion and politics people got burned at the stake.

            by irishwitch on Thu Mar 07, 2013 at 08:38:42 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  I think they don't realize it's their own religion (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              LadyMiseryAli, irishwitch

              or beliefs/ "morals" (note quotes) that makes it 'obvious" to them that a 12 wk embryo/fetus is a "human being".

              Heck just look at it! the poster says.

              Oblivious to the fact that external appearance, while it pulls at the heart strings, tells us little about what is going on inside. A brain unformed in most if not all higher functions, functioning less than an adult mouse (it's not accurate to compare because mice have different parts than humans that start out bigger or smaller)

              Back to religion. That is the line of argument I find works best against "proLife" people.
              I ask what they believe...they say life begins at conception or whatever stage they say.

              I ask them how they know, what criteria, do they use for "Life". Because a single cell NOT fertilized egg is alive too.

              I tell them that science says that embryo's brains are not complex enough to have conciousness or be at all anything like a functional born human.

              The being is not more complex than a mouse or horse or fish embryo....

              I ask them if they see that  their idea that Sacred Special human life is a Belief. I reiterate it is a fine belief. But I point out how it is probably based on religon...Christianity has the idea that the soul enters at conception as far as I know.

              It has worked. I think it is important that we all work to show them how their beliefs are RELIGION based beliefs so to put them on others is heinous and violates 'separation of church and state"., also because science disagrees with their belief.

              •  I've used the fact that higher brain functions (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                LadyMiseryAli

                don't develop until around 24 weeks, same as viability--but they don't care. It's a BABY--just LOOK at it. And it has human DNA so it's human.

                Science isn't nearly as important s their religious beliefs--because, really, I think they see fetuses as MORE human than a woman. Because, y'know, in Genesis she is subject to Adam who names her--an afterthought little more than an animal.  They don't like the first account of creation in Genesis, the one that precedes their fave, because both male and female are created at the sme time form the dust of the earth--women aren't subservient int that version.

                The last time we mixed religion and politics people got burned at the stake.

                by irishwitch on Fri Mar 08, 2013 at 02:06:55 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  I have trouble getting them to understand that it (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  irishwitch, LadyMiseryAli

                  is a religious or quasi-religious/religious based or spiritual...anyway a BELIEF based idea that special unique sacred human life starts at conception.

                  I do think the Pro Choice side in general does not educate people nearly enough.
                  Such as what science says about brain complexity.
                  Such as saying that beliefs of special sacred human life starting at conception is a religous belief

                  and that it is wrong to put ones religious beliefs on other people

                  (I actually NEVER hear that argument, say on TV when they interview leaders from NARAL etc)

                  •  I think most of them KNOW it's based on (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    LadyMiseryAli

                    religion--and that is why science doesn't matter. GOD trumps mere facts. Plus I live in the fundamentalist SOuth where it's their duty to inflict their religion on everyone else. As far as they're concerned the constitution only protects CHRISTIANS.

                    My hsuband had a nasty tun-in with Baptist nuisances, whome he politely told to leave because he wasn't interested.   One of them got belligerent and told him she had every right to tell him about Jesus (why do they always assum,e you don't know about Jesus? He was raised Baptist, I was raised Catholic and we had a damned good idea of what we were rejecting when we became Wiccans) and he OBVIOUSLY needed to hear it because he was gonna go to hell otherwise.  He told her, less politely to leave.  SHe got in his face.  He told her she was on private property, had been told to leave, and was now trespassing, and he could easily have her charged with trespassing.  The other woman finally dragged her away.  

                    The last time we mixed religion and politics people got burned at the stake.

                    by irishwitch on Fri Mar 08, 2013 at 08:21:13 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

        •  ..yet is not necessarily "pro abortion" (5+ / 0-)

          but who knows how women's live suffer without having that often sad and difficult choice available to them.

          I put my background so you might believe that I know what abortion really is. I spent years counciling women, including advising some not to have an abortion if they asked me directly and after speaking with them and hearing where they were coming from and what they truly were saying what they wanted and needed.

          Pro choice people/groups do not explain well enough, I think, why this human-looking thing IS NOT HUMAN. It's about the BRAIN. The brain of this being as I said is not anything like a born human or even born other animal. It is not complex. This little thing looks human on the outside but in his head he is the least developed yet.

          They also need to explain better that putting any "special, uniquely human life" value on this being is a religious based contruct or belief. People get caught up on the world "life". YES it is alive. But the so called "pro-life" movement has Seized the word "life" and has redefined it and the rest of us have sadly allowed them to do so. They use the word "life", when talking about abortion, to mean "special uniquiely human life" ie one more valuable than, say a mouse or a dog.

          So called "proLife" believers think that fetus/embryo is a special, sacred human life with a value beyond other mammalian embryos or even beyond a living rat or mouse or badger or...

          They must be called on this. That belief is FINE to have. I respect it very much. But it must be labled for What It Is...a BELIEF. It is not based in fact. It is not based in science.

          It is in fact based in religion or quasi religion.

          And to force that belief on other people, then, is to force your RELIGION or RELIGIOUS BELIEFS on other people.

          I did not grow up in a religious tradition that said 'life (meaning unique human life) begins at conception". My religion doesn't mention that. It is not a part of it. I was not born into ANY Christian religion.
          So I do not have that preconceived notion that many Christians might grow up with that Sacred Human Life starts with an embryo....that an embryo or even fertilized egg has a soul.

          THis is how I know that it is a relgious belief some are trying to put on others. We are supposed to have separtion of church and state.

          I think they get away with this, and are getting away wiht this, because some DO NOT REALIZE that their belief that sacred special unique human life begins at conception is religious in origin and not based in science.

          The rest of us that think that abortion should be available as a choice for women if they need it MUST BEGIN to explain this when we talk about abortion.

          •  rather than "not human" I mean "not a human being" (0+ / 0-)

            in the same way as a Born human is.

          •  I dunno (0+ / 0-)

            We base pretty much every rule in society around the idea that humans are special.

            Its not illegal to kill your dog, but its almost always illegal to kill another human.

            So I do not have that preconceived notion that many Christians might grow up with that Sacred Human Life starts with an embryo....that an embryo or even fertilized egg has a soul.
            Disregarding the soul sidebar and sticking straight to the science, every human life starts at conception, grows as an embryo/fetus several stages over 9 months of gestation and then is born.
            •  It should be illegal to kill your dog! (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              irishwitch

              Animals are sentient beings that deserve our protection and our respect. Animal cruelty laws are too lax. I would prefer that a sadistic asshole who tortures or unlawfully kills an animal to get a prison sentence of at LEAST 25 years.

            •  If life began at conception, why can't women have (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              sngmama

              C-sections after a few weeks?

              Follow me on Twitter! @guileofthegods

              by Guile Of The Gods on Thu Mar 07, 2013 at 07:53:12 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Life and viability are two different things. (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                irishwitch

                I don't think any of us deny that life begins at conception. In fact, life begins BEFORE conception because the ovum and sperm are alive. If embryos could be transferred from one womb to another, I'm sure that would be a choice available and maybe more women would choose that option. Until then, there's only abortion.

            •  again, it is not as complex as a born human (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              LadyMiseryAli

              Try to tease religion out of it, please. You have no right to put your religon on other people.

              My religion DOES NOT BELIEVE that sacred special human life begins at conception, unlike Christianity. And throughout the world, sociologists have discovered that many widely disparate peoples all believe that Human life begins at "quickening" which is when the mother first can feel the baby move...many months down the line.

              Human beings have CONCIOUSNESS. It is that that makes us human and different. We abhor for the most part killing one of our own species...especially one that loves and feels and has conciousness.

              Embryo's brains are not complex enough to generate the constructs of being fully human in the way we tend to define it and separate it from animals.

              Again, BECAUSE it is a potential human life, a human in the making, I do agree that it feels sad to kill such a being, perhaps sadder than killiing an embryotic mouse. Though that belief is not NECESSARILY religious (I share that belief), it is a sort of spiritual belief.

              Again, we do not have a right to put our spiritual beliefs on others.

              And since pregnancy and childbirth and parenting or giving baby up has profound influences on the course of  a womans' life, I still believe that the being, the embryo, the human potentiality' s living DOES NOT TRUMP the needs of a LIVING BORN WOMAN.

              Because the value that many people imbue an 12 wk old embryo is emotional belief based or religous. We cannot put those beliefs on others. It is wrong. To do so would force a woman to be pregnant (doctors say that an embryo/fetus in the womb is the perfect parasite, sucking life from the mother) against her will. That is pretty profound and dire thing to do. So many people don't understand that. I've seen it.

              It's bad to force a woman to be pregnant and undergo all those life and health changing things in service of someone else's religous beliefs OR moral/spiritual beliefs that it is a sacred special human life at that early age.

              FYI- more than half of the women we saw at the clinic were married or in a long relationship but couldn't afford a child , or another child. Many would say that they did not feel they could give up a baby to adoption...some women cannot do that emotionally. Those that do often seemingly think others should be able to...but people's psychological makeup and background differ.

              When the so called  "proLife" movement starts to push loundly and prominently their programs for poor or young women to get childcare, food, shelter and education so they can keep and raise those babies, I will believe that they really are "proLife'. Instead their  focus is just on the moment of will the embryo be terminated or not. After that point, once they would have taken away the choice a woman might make that she can't afford a child,  I don't see them helping her.
              You know what you get then? Abused unwanted and neglected children. Sure many women will love that child they didn't abort and even grow to relief and gratitude they did not abort. But others who would be forced to give birth and did not have the emotional strength and self knowledge to give up a baby may likely take it out on the child.

      •  Give me a fucking break (5+ / 0-)

        Just because the fetus LOOKS humanoid, DOES NOT give it the right to remain in woman's body against her wishes. At 12 weeks, the fetus IS NOT viable, IS NOT sentient and IS NOT a person, and has NO RIGHT to use the woman's body if she doesn't want it to.

        And FYI, the MAJORITY of abortions occur in the first 8-9 weeks, when a fetus is barely an inch long and looks like this

      •  Lies are all you have (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        irishwitch

        That's not a fetus at 12 weeks.

        Your hatred for women is clearly stronger than your ability to think.

  •  Compared to Arkansas ... (7+ / 0-)

    Given that the Arkansas legislature has straight up banned abortion, against the governor's veto, this almost seems tame.

    I have to think Mississippi will reject this bag of crazy again.

    Dogs have so many friends because they wag their tails instead of their tongues. -Anonymous

    by gloryous1 on Wed Mar 06, 2013 at 10:39:04 AM PST

  •  Fighting For Fetuses (25+ / 0-)

    But, of course, not one dime to improve pre-natal health because someone might discover a serious issue and get an abortion. Better to let thousands of newborns come into this world with health defects than have one embryo removed. Oh, and cut the food stamps for poor women and children because once the fetus starts breathing on it's own it's none of their concern.

    You can't assassinate the character of any of modern conservative. You'd have to find where it was buried, dig it up, resurrect it, then kill it. And killing a zombie isn't really assassination, is it?

    by ontheleftcoast on Wed Mar 06, 2013 at 10:50:34 AM PST

  •  i believe the 'permanent' atom which is the soul (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Eyesbright

    joins the body at, or near, the time of birth. Others count backwards to inception. Instinctual memory and responses confirm the living nature of our baby organisms. Mistreating, disrespecting, threatening, depriving, assailing and humiliating the people capable of creating new life is sicker than our society and its decrepit moron hypocrite selfserving snake tongued triple dealing deceitful charlatan bigot screaming criminally negligent and accessories after all rotten facts putrid politicians ought to be.

    Monsanto is poison, they gotta be stopped.

    by renzo capetti on Wed Mar 06, 2013 at 11:16:50 AM PST

  •  Perhaps they think (7+ / 0-)

    that Mississippi residents didn't understand it before, and if they shout louder, maybe they'll understand it this time.  Or next time. or the time after that.

    Surely, if they repeat it often enough and loud enough, it will become fact.

    All knowledge is worth having. Check out OctopodiCon to support steampunk learning and fun. Also, on DKos, check out the Itzl Alert Network.

    by Noddy on Wed Mar 06, 2013 at 11:56:43 AM PST

  •  They tried to get it on the CO ballot (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    irishwitch, Eyesbright, skohayes, Ahianne

    a THIRD time in 2012, but failed. They were collecting signatures outside Chick-Fil-A on Huckabee's stupid "Appreciation Day."

    I was hoping that it was an anti-CFA petition, so I went and asked him. Backed away in horror when he told me it was "to protect life." Watched for a while, he didn't get any takers. Lol.

    "...Males are biologically driven to go out and hunt giraffes.” —Newt Gingrich in 1995

    by BadKitties on Wed Mar 06, 2013 at 12:01:02 PM PST

  •  I'm so glad I live in Washington (6+ / 0-)

    liberal hotbed of a Democratic Governor, and two Democratic senators, not to mention gay marriage.

    This whole thing just makes my head ache.  If they really cared about life, they would all be anti-war, anti-death penalty vegetarians, who favored excellent pre-natal care, subsidized day care, good schools, and job creation.  They would be in favor of gun control.  

    But, of course, "life" is not their agenda.  Controlling women is.  Removing women from the public sphere so they can gut the social safety net more easily is.

    I think I need a glass of wine.  :(

  •  as someone (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    terrybuck, LSophia, skohayes

    that has lived their whole life in Mississippi, I look forward to voting against this again.  Just wish they would leave us alone.

    Hey! glad to see you. Hope you are doing well.

    by deedogg on Wed Mar 06, 2013 at 07:12:12 PM PST

  •  Don't forget about the men who care about women. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    skohayes
    Fortunately for women, science and the dignity of the state of Mississippi, voters told the cultists to suck it, and the measure was defeated. Just like it was defeated in Colorado—twice.

    Maybe, just maybe, the third time around these wankers will understand that when they're told to "suck it", they are being given advice on just how to avoid unwanted babies.

    "Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions." - Thomas Jefferson

    by rfall on Wed Mar 06, 2013 at 07:19:26 PM PST

  •  Maybe their strategy is (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    MKDAWUSS, LyGypsy

    Maybe their strategy is to keep putting it on the ballot until people vote for it just so Personhood USA will shut the fuck up and go away.

    "Given the choice between a Republican and someone who acts like a Republican, people will vote for a real Republican every time." Harry Truman

    by MargaretPOA on Wed Mar 06, 2013 at 07:20:58 PM PST

    •  Which IMO wouldn't be a bad idea. (0+ / 0-)

      It lets We The People decide this debate (and debacle?) once and for all.

      •  Has life begun (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Ahianne, sngmama, Guile Of The Gods

        or not is the wrong argument, wrong question. We should be asking: is it my body or isn't it (it is), is it my choice or isn't it (it is), if I go full-term and have a child will you help me ensure the well-being of this life or won't you (forced birthers won't), if I have this child, will you ensure that it's safety is a priority (forced 2nd amendmenters won't).

        And, given I'm a healthy active human being, will you help me ensure that pregnancy isn't the outcome of sex unless I want it to be (the no to this answer drives me insane because it can help settle so many arguments around reproductive rights. grrrr.)

        This is about a person (all ready determined to be person, no argument - except I get that there are too many male republicans and the women who love them who believe that a woman is not quite the person a man is), making a terribly hefty decision, who needs support regardless of the decision she makes.

      •  Translation: screw women. (0+ / 0-)
  •  Whenever the personhood amendment comes up (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Themistoclea

    I find myself referencing this post:

    http://www.patheos.com/...

    I am sure many know all of the info but I like the logical way it is presented.  

  •  Just ask 'em if they think (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    LadyMiseryAli, Guile Of The Gods

    A fried egg is the same thing as fried chicken.

    And a 12 week old fetus isn't an egg but still isn't a person. I know from personal experience.

    "Seed corn. It's what's for dinner!" Republican philosophy of governance

    by madame damnable on Wed Mar 06, 2013 at 10:45:16 PM PST

  •  District Court in Idaho struck down 20 wk ban. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Ahianne, LadyMiseryAli

    Judge Winmill struck down the 20 week -fetal pain law today in Idaho.

    The judge found "compelling evidence of the legislature's 'improper purpose' in enacting it," Winmill wrote. "The state may not rely on its interest in the potential life of the fetus to place a substantial obstacle to abortion before viability in women's paths," he said.

    Read more here: http://www.idahostatesman.com/...  

  •  IF a fetus is a human being (0+ / 0-)

    does that mean an apple seed is an apple?

    Do these misogynstic morons eat a big handful of apple seeds when craving a nice juicy apple?  Exactly the same, right?

    P.S. misogynistic morons - don't actually do this please. It will kill. you.

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