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Yet, another tragedy has occurred because a homeowner had a gun in the house.  

The Washington Post reported that 16 year old Caleb Gordley was fatally shot by his neighbor around 2 a.m. Sunday.  Gordley had snuck out of the house Saturday night to attend a party after he was grounded for not cleaning his room.  After drinking at the party, Gordley had to sneak back into the house so his friends helped him into the house through a back window.  The problem was that Gordley had not entered his own house; he had instead entered the home of his neighbor two doors down.  

What happened next was tragic.

The homeowner heard his burglar alarm sound, grabbed his gun and went to investigate. When the two met on the stairs inside the house, the man said he told the teen to leave and fired a warning shot, according to a law enforcement official with knowledge of the investigation.

Caleb didn’t stop, and the homeowner fired again, striking and killing the teen, the official said.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/....

It appears to me that Gordley was confused since he thought he was in his own house and was probably somewhat disoriented due to his drinking and that is why he didn't stop when asked to by his neighbor.  

According to the article, both homes appear similar from the outside. According to Gordley's father,

“They have the exact same staircase as us, the exact same carpet. Caleb clearly thought he was in his own house,” said his father, Shawn Gordley, who provided the account of his son’s night. “He probably stumbled around and was just trying to go to his room.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/....

Based on the article, it appears that Gordley was not the type of teen that normally got into trouble.  Gordley was a junior at the local high school where he played
football, basketball and baseball.

It is a shame that his life was cut short in this manner.  According to a statement issued by Gordley's family:

“Between the darkness and him being under the influence of alcohol, his mistake turned into the ultimate tragedy.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/....

And his death would have most likely been avoided if there was not a firearm in the home of his neighbor.

This situation is a tragedy for all of those involved.  Based on the article, it appears that the shooter barely knew Gordley and his family.  It does not appear from the information learned so far that this was anything other than a tragic mistake.  Although the shooter did not respond to requests from the reporter, I suspect that the shooter feels terrible about what happened.  The shooter was described by other neighbors as a "good neighbor" and has been a volunteer firefighter for almost twenty years.  

Originally posted to night cat on Mon Mar 18, 2013 at 07:16 PM PDT.

Also republished by Repeal or Amend the Second Amendment (RASA) and Shut Down the NRA.

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Comment Preferences

    •  Always has been and probably will be for (6+ / 0-)

      a long time to come. A well-trained dog is really hard to beat. Even the SEALS have started to prefer them to their high-tech gadgetry. When they lose one, it isn't like losing a team member, or worse, blowing a mission, but apparently it's the next-worst thing.

      Note: IANAS. I just read a lot.

      Ceterum censeo Factionem Republicanam esse delendam.

      by journeyman on Mon Mar 18, 2013 at 07:35:29 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  personally, I'd never want one of my dogs (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        journeyman, LilithGardener

        to be in that situation.  In any case, I'm more afraid of LEOs reaction than some potential burglar.

        They are family, and I would protect them as such, badge notwithstanding.

        I see a very beautiful planet that seems very inviting and peaceful. Unfortunately, it is not.…We're better than this. We must do better. Cmdr Scott Kelley

        by wretchedhive on Mon Mar 18, 2013 at 08:07:05 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  this was a terrible tragedy. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          LilithGardener

          I question the appropriateness of guns in a house of someone who is so fearful of having their stuff ripped off, as this does not sound like someone in fear of their life.

          As a gun owner, I would never use deadly force to protect property, only that of my family.

          I see a very beautiful planet that seems very inviting and peaceful. Unfortunately, it is not.…We're better than this. We must do better. Cmdr Scott Kelley

          by wretchedhive on Mon Mar 18, 2013 at 08:12:36 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  so many feel justified by whatever the law is (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            bevenro, LilithGardener, Quicklund

            if the law says you are allowed to shoot if someone
            invades your property and won't stop (some states have this), people think they can shoot.

            Or honestly he could have feared for his life. I'm a woman and if I saw a man coming in my window and he wouldn't stop I'd fear for my life or that I'd be raped.

            IT doesn't occur to you that someone could be coming in your window by accident. It probably was pretty dark and he couldn't see it was a kid.

            but I don't have a gun, by choice

            so sad.

          •  Went to bed with unlocked windows, maybe (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Paul1a

            they were even open.

            Is awakened in the middle of the night. I don't buy the whole blame on a drunk teen. People don't go from sleep to total wakefulness with clear judgment in one instant either.

            "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

            by LilithGardener on Mon Mar 18, 2013 at 09:05:33 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  If it was the middle of the night... (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Quicklund

            ...and someone you didn't know was in your house, walking up the stairs to the place where your family sleeps, I doubt you'd think you were just defending property.

            "When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." --Dom Helder Camara, archbishop of Recife

            by JamesGG on Tue Mar 19, 2013 at 07:24:36 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  Fair enough. (5+ / 0-)

          But you might if you were also in that situation. I've even heard it suggested that one of the reasons that modern humans were able to develop speech is that our mouths could form sounds because our noses basically sucked and should have been the end of us, but for the fact that we had our fine furry friends to do our smelling for us.

          Dogs actually read human faces better than chimps can. Moreover, they look at human faces the way humans do, which is not how they look at each other.

          Dogs really are humanity's best friend.

          I love 'em.

          Ceterum censeo Factionem Republicanam esse delendam.

          by journeyman on Mon Mar 18, 2013 at 08:12:59 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  And a dog can be introduced to the neighbors. (9+ / 0-)

      Our neighbors have dogs. They know me. If I ever need to run over there to get help in the middle of the night, I will be greeted by slightly confused but happy doggies when I knock on the door, to be followed by sleepy humans hopefully clued in that I'm someone they are friendly towards before the door is opened.

      Prayers and best wishes to those in Japan.

      by Cassandra Waites on Mon Mar 18, 2013 at 07:47:45 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  They're also a heavy responsibility (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      journeyman, Paul1a, Quicklund

      Training them to put up with bad kids is imperative.

      Freedom isn't free. Patriots pay taxes.

      by Dogs are fuzzy on Tue Mar 19, 2013 at 12:54:47 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  This can be a bit of a personality issue (0+ / 0-)

        or, more properly, a "doganality" issue. The first dog we ever had (named "dog" by my sister) was a mutt. She was instinctively protective and even nasty. (My mother recalls an incident where a furniture delivery guy came to the door and told her that he was NOT coming in unless she put the dog somewhere else. At that point, she tried to reassure him that "dog" was friendly. Then she looked down and saw the nastiest looking mutt, she'd ever seen). Still, dog never did anything mean to me as an infant. She wasn't particularly fond of me, but she would put up with me pulling on her ears to stand up. Of course, that may be an in-group out-group thing, but as far as I remember, she never harmed a child.

        Ceterum censeo Factionem Republicanam esse delendam.

        by journeyman on Tue Mar 19, 2013 at 05:50:20 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  To be honest (12+ / 0-)

    I would have fired on someone if they broke into my house and didn't respond to a verbal warning. The protection of my household comes first. In another case, same circumstances, it may very well have been a violent intruder.

    http://callatimeout.blogspot.com/

    by DAISHI on Mon Mar 18, 2013 at 07:25:24 PM PDT

    •  chances are it's a family member. (9+ / 0-)

      Or a misguided high school kid.

      Odds that you're dealing with a malevolent home-invasion type situation are incredibly small.

      •  Life is tough (9+ / 0-)

        And people are always going to own guns. I completely support initiatives to run tougher background checks and limit weapons to small arms as opposed to assault weapons and the like.

        But if someone illegally comes into my house, I'm going to shoot them. Life is ugly. Don't break into people's houses.

        http://callatimeout.blogspot.com/

        by DAISHI on Mon Mar 18, 2013 at 07:44:14 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Glad I don't share your mentality. (16+ / 0-)

          I prefer to use common sense.  Make a call.  Leave the house.  Get a watch dog.  Ultimately, I'd prefer to see people live.  I don't take issue with people's 2nd amendment right to own a weapon--that's fine.  But I don't think people see the reality of situations either.

          Why are we practically the only country that has this mythology that everyone has to be armed to the teeth?  I lived in Europe for 6 years--no one has that mentality.

          •  Did you just say that one should leave their own (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            noway2, FrankRose, 43north, Tom Seaview

            home, in the middle of the night?

            Home Invasions are more than one person, usually.

            http://www.kcra.com/...

            http://www.crimedoctor.com/...

            http://www.peakprosperity.com/...

            The potential for violence is very much elevated in home invasion robberies because the perpetrators have decided the success of their crime depends on the residents being home and they are committed to overcoming any force used by the residents in self-defense with their own weapons and brutality.

            Your basic robber doesn't want you being home when they call.  A home invader may have followed you there because you drive a nice car, have expensive jewelry on or nice clothing.  The "home invader" is not there for your big screen TV or stereo.

            Your admission that you lived in Europe explains more here than you'd let on.  I know in the UK you, the victim, will be prosecuted for defending yourself.

            http://www.guardian.co.uk/...

            http://www.telegraph.co.uk/...

            It's even happening in Canada:

            http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/...

            One morning in August, 2010 Thomson awoke to find intruders firebombing his house.

            -cut-

            Thomson was initially charged with four offences, but two of those (careless use of a firearm and pointing a firearm) were dropped by the Crown when it became obvious that his self-defence argument would succeed. The remaining charges, of unsafe storage of his firearm and ammunition, went to trial. A decision was rendered by Justice Colvin on January 3, 2013. Thomson was found not guilty.

             

            The final video link below is from a home security video and it shows what home invaders can do to you, please don't click on the link if you have a weak stomach.  

            For those whom do not wish to watch the brutality of humans on humans, it shows 3 home invaders attacking from different entry points into a home that has a man and two women in it.  It was 7 am. The home owner and his friends do what the intruders want and get lined up on the floor and shot in the head, point blank range.

            From a MSNBC expose

            -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

            by gerrilea on Tue Mar 19, 2013 at 01:06:30 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  why is it that no one I've ever met is so (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              LilithGardener, Paul1a

              terrified of a home invasion they feel the need to own a gun?

              I'm not saying a gun for home defense should be illegal.  But I don't get it.  

              And your attribution of a European way of looking at things really doesn't apply to me in the least.  Your guardian links notwithstanding, people in Europe simply don't see their lives as being under constant threat like we do in this country.  It's not just about what they're legally allowed to do.  They simply don't.  There's a lot of crime in Europe too.  There are a lot of things that are dealt with in a more mature fashion in Europe than here.

              And the point about 'leaving the house' is simply this:  there are other ways of dealing with home safety.  People who rely on guns tend to be less aware  of this fact.

              •  Hey, I don't own any firearms, I practice those (4+ / 0-)

                "other ways" as you've suggested.  Those "other ways" will not stop a home invasion nor will they stop a burglar in the middle of the night.  My martial arts training will do no good against a bullet.

                The "mentality" here isn't immature, its realistic.  The police can't and don't have to protect you, so someone must.  That responsibility falls upon the person, it really is that simple.  

                My own brother was a victim of a home invasion whereby the 4 intruders rounded them all up in the living room and held guns on them, including my mentally retarded niece.  They live in North Carolina and they got lucky.  They moved the next day into a hotel.

                It's not real until you're the one facing that situation.  I understand this and so do many Americans.  The naivete is gone.

                As for the "European mind-set".  They've been conditioned into victimization.  The greatest tool the oppressor has is the mind of the oppressed.  Remember those really bad "B" movies where the person waits for the killer to kill them?  The massive restrictions upon firearm ownership and their demonization for almost 100 yrs there has conditioned their society into seeing them as evil incarnate.  That gun control movement in Europe started right after the Bolshevik Revolution.  The powers that be feared the masses.

                Read the Blackwell Report from 1918 to understand this history please.

                That same fear by those in power was exported throughout the world.  Leading to our National Firearms Act of 1934.  

                The rise of our civil rights movement in the 60's lead to the Gun Control Act of 1968.  

                I must ask this: Is it really the American people that fear or is the framing been co-opted as Edward Bernay's suggested?

                “The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ...We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of. This is a logical result of the way in which our democratic society is organized. Vast numbers of human beings must cooperate in this manner if they are to live together as a smoothly functioning society. ...In almost every act of our daily lives, whether in the sphere of politics or business, in our social conduct or our ethical thinking, we are dominated by the relatively small number of persons...who understand the mental processes and social patterns of the masses. It is they who pull the wires which control the public mind.”
                I really detest propaganda, no matter where it comes from.

                -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

                by gerrilea on Tue Mar 19, 2013 at 09:52:47 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Right-wingnut talking points, presented as fact? (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  SoCalSal

                  On DailyKos? Sad times.

                  •  ROFL, Supreme Court Decisions are RW talking (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    PavePusher

                    points? History is a RW talking point?

                    I see that you are a student of Mr. Bernay's, thanks for letting us know!

                    -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

                    by gerrilea on Tue Mar 19, 2013 at 08:40:09 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  ROFLMAO, SCOTUS now hates Europe? (0+ / 0-)

                      Scalia, maybe, is afraid he'd get his comeuppance there. The others seem to enjoy it.

                      I'm sorry for the scare your brother had, and glad no-one was hurt. Was there a racial element to the break-in, e.g. is your brother black and the burglars were white? Just curious.

                      Your thought-process on guns seems straight out of a libertarian die. That can be entertaining as a sophomore or in basic training, but quickly grows tiresome.

                      As for the "European mind-set".  They've been conditioned into victimization. The greatest tool the oppressor has is the mind of the oppressed. ... The massive restrictions upon firearm ownership and their demonization for almost 100 yrs there has conditioned their society into seeing them as evil incarnate. That gun control movement in Europe started right after the Bolshevik Revolution. The powers that be feared the masses.
                      Funny, I don't recall reading this Supreme Court ruling, which case was it? (I'm assuming you're not so stupid as to buy into the right-wing conspiratorial paranoia, e.g. that gun-control and the National Firearms Act of 1934 is part of some nefarious plot by 'powers-that-be' to usurp democracy.)

                      Bernays did many evil things, notably tobacco promotion, but gun-control was not one of them. Quoting Bernays does not make you clever.

                      Most of us on DailyKos agree that "the danger attending the indiscriminate possession of revolvers or pistols is obvious."

                      •  Selective reading comprehension & propaganda. (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        PavePusher

                        Your issues, not mine.

                        The SC made clear the police have no duty to protect any of us.  How you've warped it into a personal ad hominem is classic Bernay's:  "you're not so stupid as to buy into the right-wing conspiratorial paranoia"

                        Argumentum ad populum:

                        "Most of us on DailyKos agree that..."

                        Meaningless false arguments that do not address the issues presented.  Feeble attempts to distract from the facts that you do not have.

                        Clearly you don't like history or those of us that have actually studied it as a profession. The socioeconomic issues brought about by big oil (Standard Oil) along with the Banksters (or criminal banking cartels) to consolidate their power and influence isn't a secret or CT, it's historical fact.  Big tobacco wasn't the only one reading Bernay's writings.

                        Eric Holder in 1995:

                        The dying rule of law, the erosion of our constitution

                        "There is only so much you can extract out of the country, out of the people. What is left to take after all that?

                        You take away the people's rights, because you have to insure the continuance of the power structure in place".
                        Recall what Eric Holder said in 1995 regarding guns and then fast forward to today:

                        The Day 'Due Process' Died: Obama, Holder and the End of Rights

                        In his speech, Attorney General Holder said things no honest man would ever believe would be said by the highest law officer in the United States.

                        Holder said "that a careful and thorough executive branch review of the facts in a case amounts to 'due process' and that the Constitution's Fifth Amendment protection against depriving a citizen of his or her life without due process of law does not mandate a 'judicial process.'"

                        This isn't a game of "left versus right".  The immaturity of your personal attacks and limited abilities to think critically cannot distract those of us that have been paying attention.

                        I could give a systematic review of how social media shapes and controls the American people and their attitudes but I'll leave that for another day.

                        -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

                        by gerrilea on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 04:53:02 AM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

        •  intent? (11+ / 0-)

          if everyone took your advice to not intentionally break and enter, there would still be people like this kid getting drunk and accidentally doing it.  Without any intent to do you harm.

          ...better the occasional faults of a government that lives in a spirit of charity, than the consistent omissions of a government frozen in the ice of its own indifference. -FDR, 1936

          by James Allen on Mon Mar 18, 2013 at 08:00:01 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  My home has been invaded once. (10+ / 0-)

        It was two drunk college kids that got off on the wrong floor.

        I count myself lucky that that's the worst I've experienced, but I know I wouldn't ever get through the day without thinking about it if I'd had a gun and taken them out.

        Ceterum censeo Factionem Republicanam esse delendam.

        by journeyman on Mon Mar 18, 2013 at 08:46:44 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Wow ! (11+ / 0-)

      It takes real guts to stand up for
      killing teenage drunk unarmed kids who are not threatening anybody .

      Drop the name-calling MB 2/4/11 + Please try to use ratings properly! Kos 9/9/11

      by indycam on Mon Mar 18, 2013 at 08:20:35 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Someone whom breaks into a home in the middle (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        gerrilea, noway2, KVoimakas, Tom Seaview

        of the night constitutes a threat.

        Any judge, jury or cop would agree.

        Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

        by FrankRose on Mon Mar 18, 2013 at 10:15:47 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Don't you get a bit tired of trying to (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Paul1a

          defend the indefensible?
          What if this had been your kid?
          Do you know the word, "empathy?"
          I bet the shooter feels a whole lot worse than you do and would not welcome your defense of his gun against the life of a drunken teen.
          Sheesh!

          Maya Angelou: "Without courage, we cannot practice any other virtue with consistency. We can't be kind, true, merciful, generous, or honest."

          by JoanMar on Tue Mar 19, 2013 at 06:01:42 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  How am I defending the indefensible? (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            gerrilea, Tom Seaview

            Are you trying to argue that the homeowner should be prosecuted?

            Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

            by FrankRose on Tue Mar 19, 2013 at 07:26:28 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  No, actually I am not. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Paul1a

              I hope he feels heartbroken that a child is dead but I don't think he could be found guilty of anything other than trying to protect his home.
              We are talking about you. You who jumped into this diary to immediately defend the gun rather than express some sympathy for the suffering parents and loved ones of a teen who lost his way and paid dearly for his mistake.

              Maya Angelou: "Without courage, we cannot practice any other virtue with consistency. We can't be kind, true, merciful, generous, or honest."

              by JoanMar on Tue Mar 19, 2013 at 07:49:05 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  Ha ! (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Paul1a
          Any judge, jury or cop would agree.
          You know how every judge , jury and cop thinks ! Good god that's funny .

          Drop the name-calling MB 2/4/11 + Please try to use ratings properly! Kos 9/9/11

          by indycam on Tue Mar 19, 2013 at 10:40:17 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  So long as there is a right to self-defense, (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            gerrilea, Tom Seaview

            It will cover an unknown home invader whom has broken into the home in the middle of the night & is blocking the only avenue of escape.
            It doesn't take "knowing every judge jury and cop". All it takes is the slightest knowledge of the law.

            Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

            by FrankRose on Tue Mar 19, 2013 at 10:49:28 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Keep it up , I'm pleased no end . (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Paul1a
              Any judge, jury or cop would agree.
              VS
              It doesn't take "knowing every judge jury and cop".
              You claim to know something "Any judge, jury or cop would agree" and then you claim that it "It doesn't take "knowing..."

              Drop the name-calling MB 2/4/11 + Please try to use ratings properly! Kos 9/9/11

              by indycam on Tue Mar 19, 2013 at 10:57:06 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  They have "knowledge of the law" (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                gerrilea, Tom Seaview

                And anyone whom does wouldn't charge nor convict.

                It's not a difficult concept. Perhaps you should learn it prior to hitting 'post'

                Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                by FrankRose on Tue Mar 19, 2013 at 12:09:00 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Do keep on doing what you do (0+ / 0-)

                  it makes me grin .
                  I'll suggest you do a little research on people who have been arrested , tried and convicted for the very thing , prior to hitting 'post' yet again .
                  If you fail to find , do try and ask one of your friends to help you , they might be able to help you , but maybe they will also fail at uncovering the truth .

                  Drop the name-calling MB 2/4/11 + Please try to use ratings properly! Kos 9/9/11

                  by indycam on Tue Mar 19, 2013 at 03:26:08 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Why don't you link them? (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    PavePusher

                    Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                    by FrankRose on Tue Mar 19, 2013 at 05:37:28 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  You want me to link to what you say does (0+ / 0-)

                      not exist ? Whats in it for me ? If I link to stories of arrests , trials and even convictions , all these things you say never happen , if I prove to you that what you have said and repeated numerous time is total crap , what are you going to do for me ?
                      You are asking me to do for you what you should have already done for yourself .

                      Lets just for example say that I post a link to a double murder conviction of a man who killed two intruders , then what ? What will you do in return ?

                      What if I post another link to a guy who was convicted and sentenced to death . What will you do then ?

                      You see I don't see anything in this for me , while you get a free education about what really goes on in the world .

                      Drop the name-calling MB 2/4/11 + Please try to use ratings properly! Kos 9/9/11

                      by indycam on Tue Mar 19, 2013 at 05:58:42 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  You say they do. (0+ / 0-)

                        Link up or shut up.

                        Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                        by FrankRose on Tue Mar 19, 2013 at 06:16:43 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  Oh , big man with the "words" !!! (0+ / 0-)

                          You amuse me no end !

                          Whats in it for me to prove that you are just bull shitting ?
                          When I post proof that people get arrested , tried and convicted , what are you going to give me in return ?

                          Here is one for free ,

                          "Byron David Smith was arrested after he told police he shot and killed two teenagers who he said were breaking into his home on Thanksgiving Day.

                          "If you're trying to shoot somebody and they laugh at you, you go again," Byron David Smith of Little Falls told investigators, according to a criminal complaint filed Monday.

                          Smith was charged with two counts of second-degree murder in the deaths of Haile Kifer, 18, and her cousin, Nicholas Brady, 17, both of Little Falls."

                          Drop the name-calling MB 2/4/11 + Please try to use ratings properly! Kos 9/9/11

                          by indycam on Tue Mar 19, 2013 at 06:31:58 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  Yeah....no difference between this case and (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            PavePusher

                            that one.

                            /eye-roll

                            Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                            by FrankRose on Tue Mar 19, 2013 at 06:40:17 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  So killing invaders does result in (0+ / 0-)

                            arrest , prosecution and conviction and all you have to say is they are not the same ? So sad that your sad little bubble doesn't cover very much .

                            I don't do eye rolls because my mother taught her children that they are only done by ...

                            When I post proof that people get arrested , tried and convicted , what are you going to give me in return ?
                            Looks like I have my answer .

                            Drop the name-calling MB 2/4/11 + Please try to use ratings properly! Kos 9/9/11

                            by indycam on Tue Mar 19, 2013 at 07:23:43 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Sure do. (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            PavePusher

                            And such a devastating rebuke it was.
                            Great Job.
                             

                            Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                            by FrankRose on Tue Mar 19, 2013 at 07:31:40 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Eh ? (0+ / 0-)
                            And such a devastating rebuke it was.

                            .....................................
                            An appeals court has overturned a Cleveland man’s murder conviction, saying his jury wasn’t properly instructed on the “castle doctrine” that allows people to use deadly force in their home.
                            Arrested , prosecuted , convicted .
                            It took jurors less than an hour to decide Thursday that they didn't believe a former York City woman's claim that she mistook her live-in boyfriend for an intruder when she shot him at least seven times, killing him.
                            Arrested , prosecuted , convicted .
                            TAUNTON, Mass.— A New Bedford homeowner who fatally shot a man he thought had broken into his house has been acquitted by a Bristol Superior Court jury of second-degree murder.
                            Arrested , prosecuted , not convicted .
                            The Iowa Court of Appeals has upheld the murder conviction of a northwest Iowa woman found guilty 10 years after the crime.

                            Tracey Richter claimed she shot 20-year-old Dustin Wehde in self-defense in 2001. She told police two or three intruders had entered her home and she was trying to protect her three children when she shot and killed Wehde.

                            Arrested , prosecuted , convicted .
                            Athena Wortham was asleep in her home on Sunday morning when she woke up to find an intruder allegedly trying to strangle her. She did what anyone who was fighting for their life might do -- she killed him.

                            But now an apparent act of self defense has landed her in jail. San Francisco police said they arrested 42-year-old Wortham on suspicion of murder.

                            Arrested
                            ..................................................
                            A Nunavut man who was convicted of murder and attempted murder for shooting and killing three people and injuring two others after they broke into his house has had his convictions overturned.
                            Arrested , prosecuted , convicted .
                            Anthony Edward "Tony" Martin is a farmer from Norfolk, England, who shot a burglar dead in his home in August 1999.
                            Martin was convicted of murder, later reduced to manslaughter on grounds of diminished responsibility,
                            Arrested , prosecuted , convicted .

                            Drop the name-calling MB 2/4/11 + Please try to use ratings properly! Kos 9/9/11

                            by indycam on Tue Mar 19, 2013 at 07:57:36 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Cite Newsmax much? (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            PavePusher

                            Why don't you try linking your examples?

                            I know why. ;)

                            Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                            by FrankRose on Tue Mar 19, 2013 at 08:21:45 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  You can't figure how to see them yourself ? (0+ / 0-)

                            You really need your hand held ?

                            I know why. ;)
                            Really ? Do tell !

                            Drop the name-calling MB 2/4/11 + Please try to use ratings properly! Kos 9/9/11

                            by indycam on Tue Mar 19, 2013 at 08:25:43 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  I did see one....from Newsmax. (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            PavePusher

                            So why don't you link them all?
                            (Pssst--I already know why you aren't linking the Iowa case either)

                            Link them, why ever wouldn't you? ;)

                            Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                            by FrankRose on Tue Mar 19, 2013 at 08:28:59 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  ... (0+ / 0-)
                            I did see one....from Newsmax.
                            Really ? Wow ! I bet that made your day !
                            ............................
                            I know why. ;)
                            vs
                            Link them, why ever wouldn't you? ;)
                            ............................
                            (Pssst--I already know why you aren't linking the Iowa case either)
                            Really ? Do tell !

                            This exchange has become so very boring , I don't care anything about you or what you think or say .
                            You are just a person who thinks its ok to kill unarmed , non threatening kids . You have nothing interesting to say . It just is small little bs games at best . I just feel sorry for you .

                            Drop the name-calling MB 2/4/11 + Please try to use ratings properly! Kos 9/9/11

                            by indycam on Tue Mar 19, 2013 at 08:38:05 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Do link them, but just for fun... (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            PavePusher

                            Iowa case, your (unprovided) link: " prosecutors said there was no home invasion"
                            Way to compare a home invasion to 'no home invasion'.

                            Can't believe you didn't provide a link for it....or your Newsmax sourcing. Weird.

                            Please. More. ;)

                            Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                            by FrankRose on Tue Mar 19, 2013 at 08:43:25 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  never even reply to indycam, all he attempts is (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            PavePusher

                            to derail and throw enough shit in the hope some sticks.....he also hopes no one reads them carefully as they are usually so full of flat out lies and blatant contradictions they end up a parody of their self and their author.....

                            Plus ignoring them really eats their ass.......

                            Vaya con Dios Don Alejo
                            I want to die a slave to principles. Not to men.
                            Emiliano Zapata

                            by buddabelly on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 02:44:51 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Well, you're half right.... (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            buddabelly

                            although your description of his writing style is very apt, I have to admit I found my correspondence with him to be both amusing and satisfying.;)

                            Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                            by FrankRose on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 05:46:20 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

  •  We don't know that he fired a warning shot. (10+ / 0-)

    All we know is that he fired two shots, one into the ceiling and one into the boy.

    I have a friend who is a bit of a gun nut and he said that if you ever shoot somebody in your home, make sure to put one in the ceiling so that you can say you fired a warning shot.

    My guess is that he's not the only one who has thought of that.

    Ceterum censeo Factionem Republicanam esse delendam.

    by journeyman on Mon Mar 18, 2013 at 07:31:52 PM PDT

    •  true - the shooter's story sounds fishy (8+ / 0-)

      The boy didn't stop coming up the stairs when some man FIRED A GUN and tells him to stop??

      Who did he think the man firing a gun was? His father?

      How drunk would you have to be to not find it odd that your father is shooting a gun at you?

      No matter how drunk you are, wouldn't somebody FIRING A GUN at you and telling you to stop make you stop?

      I don't buy the account of the shooter.

      •  well, if he's that drunk, it may not have (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        happymisanthropy

        made a difference.

        We don't know how far along he was--but rationality does tend to go out the window.

        •  THAT drunk is beyond falling-down-on-your-ass (5+ / 0-)

          forget-your-name drunk.

          I've been falling-down-on-my-ass-forget-my-name drunk. I've never been so drunk that a gunshot wouldn't make me freeze. The most I would do is fall down on my ass.

          Ceterum censeo Factionem Republicanam esse delendam.

          by journeyman on Mon Mar 18, 2013 at 08:42:02 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  well he was drunk enough to not know it was his (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            FrankRose, noway2

            house.  

            •  True. But that ain't (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Paul1a

              someone-just-shot-a-gun-that-doesn't-mean-anything drunk.

              Which in my humble opinion is somewhere beyond

              I'm-really-drunk-but-not-so-drunk-that-I-can't-break-into-another-person's-house drunk.

              The story related here is that a young man, successfully broke into someone's house, and still didn't have the brains to be afraid of a gunshot.

              Burden of proof lies with that story.

              Null hypothesis is that that story doesn't add up.

              Ceterum censeo Factionem Republicanam esse delendam.

              by journeyman on Mon Mar 18, 2013 at 10:17:22 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Honestly, the burden of proof does not exist with (0+ / 0-)

                the homeowner, at all, when an intruder is shot inside the home.  

                 Someone broke into their home and unless state law proves otherwise, the homeowner is not required to investigate who the person is, why they are there or any other means to then decide if the intruder has a right to be breaking into their home at 2am.  They have a right to defend their life and/or property with lethal force....again, unless state law proves otherwise.  

                A warning shot is also not required, I am almost certain.  

        •  Advantage of a dog (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Paul1a, journeyman

          I'm at the very least skeptical of the story, but there are doubtless some states of mind in which someone wouldn't understand a gun but their hindbrain would know what a snarling predator meant.

          Freedom isn't free. Patriots pay taxes.

          by Dogs are fuzzy on Tue Mar 19, 2013 at 12:58:45 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I don't know about not understanding a shot. (0+ / 0-)

            But a snarling predator, well, that I concur is beyond even a shot.

            Hell, I once ran into a snorting deer, stone cold sober, on a dark night on a country road. Honestly, I don't know which of us was more scared.

            Anyone with any sense is always at least respectful and probably afraid of wild animals.

            Ceterum censeo Factionem Republicanam esse delendam.

            by journeyman on Tue Mar 19, 2013 at 09:49:08 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  So.....he has just bidded his time until (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Neo Control, gerrilea, noway2

        someone broke into his home in the middle of the night, so that he could continue with his nefarious plan?

        Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

        by FrankRose on Mon Mar 18, 2013 at 10:17:45 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I never said he had a nefarious plan. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          gerrilea, Paul1a

          All I said was that we don't know which shot he fired first. For all I know, he was terrified at the time he shot the boy. That doesn't mean that he wouldn't have the presence of mind to put one in the ceiling before he called the cops.

          Moreover, I'm NOT saying that he is lying.

          But I am saying that is that I think he hasn't met the burden of proof, and that his story is of such a nature that that burden does and should lie on him.

          Ceterum censeo Factionem Republicanam esse delendam.

          by journeyman on Mon Mar 18, 2013 at 11:11:57 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  What benefit would there be from shooting a (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            gerrilea, noway2

            hole in the ceiling afterwards?

            An unknown person broke into his house in the middle of the night. That is a reasonable reason to fear for one's life. He has no responsibility to shoot his ceiling.

            "burden of [proof] lies on him"
            Nevermind that there isn't a Judge, Jury or Cop that wouldn't consider this a case of self-defense.....you are actually demanding that one is guilty until proven innocent.

            Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

            by FrankRose on Mon Mar 18, 2013 at 11:20:42 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I understand both perspectives here, really. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              FrankRose

              You enter my home in the middle of the night and I shoot you.  There is no warning shot needed, you shouldn't be in my home.  

              On the other hand, as the shooter, living in NYS, I may get arrested for discharging a firearm in a city.  So, to protect against these false charges, I then shoot the ceiling and say I warned the intruder first.  A "cover your ass" move.

              But your point that there is an assumption of guilt is soo absolutely true these days.  It's the frightening results of our police state, we're all guilty of something. We must be because bad things just don't happen to good people!


              "Had I not got pregnant, got married and needed that house with the 2 bedrooms, then that kid wouldn't have been breaking into my home that night."

              -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

              by gerrilea on Tue Mar 19, 2013 at 01:23:30 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  Fair points all. (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              LilithGardener, Paul1a

              But, when I say the burden of proof lies on him, I am obviously not speaking legally, but simply of logic. Were I in the jury I would probably vote to acquit. I don't know, I'd have to hear more, but I don't think this was premeditated and I don't think the man was not scared. It's just that I think he's full of shit. His story doesn't pass the smell test.

              What advantage would there be to shooting a hole in the ceiling?

              Well, it makes your story better, doesn't it? That's an advantage.

              Once again, I do not deny that he legitimately thought himself in danger when he shot the boy. I highly doubt that he thought "oh here's that little prick from two doors down, I never liked that kid and now's my chance to kill him." I am reasonably sure that he's miserable and that he would do just about anything to have that shot back. I'm just saying that firing a warning shot would pretty much discourage even the drunkest of drunks. Even if he still thought it was his own house, at the very least I would expect him to hit the dirt (or at least fall on his ass) and say "what the fuck, Dad?"

              Ceterum censeo Factionem Republicanam esse delendam.

              by journeyman on Tue Mar 19, 2013 at 05:31:00 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  You would never have to be on a jury (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                noway2

                because this would never go to trial.
                If one cannot act in self defense when someone breaks into someone's home in the middle of the night, then there would be no criteria for self defense.
                Your theory makes no sense.

                Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                by FrankRose on Tue Mar 19, 2013 at 07:32:43 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

    •  Yep. First thing that crossed my mind. n/t (3+ / 0-)

      Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

      by Meteor Blades on Mon Mar 18, 2013 at 09:51:00 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Another incident (12+ / 0-)

    proving that a gun in the home will have a greater chance of intimidating, killing or wounding a loved one, a neighbor or the gun owner than for self defense.

    Why is it that, as a culture, we are more comfortable seeing two men holding guns than holding hands?

    by jsfox on Mon Mar 18, 2013 at 07:32:42 PM PDT

  •  Y'know, I'm not a huge fan of guns (9+ / 0-)

    But it seems to me that this tragedy was the result of a young man being so drunk that he didn't know where he was.

    I'm known to enjoy a few drinks, but if one is so drunk and disoriented to the point that they don't even know where their own house is, it's not unlikely that it will end in tragedy. Not because they might get shot, but because they could pass out in an alley and freeze to death, or stumble into traffic, or trip and crack their head open on the pavement, not realize the extent of their injuries, and end up dead from that. The possibilities are endless when one is that drunk.

    This is a very, very sad story, but in this case I don't think the gun was the problem. It was the alcohol.

    P.S. I am not a crackpot.

    by BoiseBlue on Mon Mar 18, 2013 at 07:32:44 PM PDT

    •  Was a combination of the alcohol and the gun (9+ / 0-)

      But I suspect that if there was not a gun in the home, Gordley would still be alive.

      No doubt Gordley did not exercise the best judgment that night , but if there was not a gun in the neighbor's home, I doubt that the night would have ended with the teen being shot to death.  

      •  Of course he wouldn't have been shot to death (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Red Sox, jayden, gerrilea

        in that incident. And I do think it's a tragedy and I think every homeowner who owns a gun for protection (something I frequently mock to the ire of the RKBA crowd) has the responsibility to know who they're shooting.

        That being said....

        When someone is so drunk that they don't even know where they are, tragedies happen. I say this as someone who loves her beer and dislikes guns for the sake of self-defense. I think the alcohol was the root cause of this tragedy. A sober person wouldn't have crawled into the wrong house.

        P.S. I am not a crackpot.

        by BoiseBlue on Mon Mar 18, 2013 at 07:52:15 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  you're not following the rules (7+ / 0-)

      you have to blame it on the gun.

      _"Love is the rosebud of an hour; Friendship the everlasting flower."_ Brook Boothby

      by Keith930 on Mon Mar 18, 2013 at 07:38:50 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  the gun shot the kid--the alcohol didn't. (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Iberian, LilithGardener, Paul1a

      If that kid had come into my house, I probably would have left by the back door and called the cops.  Assuming it's probably one of the high school kids in my town that does that sort of thing.  Or a familly member.  Neither of whom I'd like to see dead--even if my home WERE broken into.

    •  also, BB--I've been drunk numerous times. (3+ / 0-)

      I've passed out, wandered around alleys, gotten locked out of buildings, fallen, tripped, etc. etc.

      I'm still alive.  In part because no one shot me.

      Drunk driving?  Now, that's a common cause of death.  I'm actually pretty shocked you didn't mention that--these other situations you've suggested are kinda nutty, to be honest.

      •  May sound nutty (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        OldSoldier99, happymisanthropy

        But I've taken them from real life examples.

        P.S. I am not a crackpot.

        by BoiseBlue on Mon Mar 18, 2013 at 07:48:35 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I'm not saying they're impossible--I just don't (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          LilithGardener, Paul1a

          see them as particularly strong examples of why alcohol is dangerous/at fault in this situation.  Hell I do the same things while tired.  Hell--i fell into a manhole in Mongolia once after not getting enough sleep...

          •  Come on, everyone here knows I'm a lush (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            jakedog42, notrouble, gerrilea

            But when someone is so drunk that they don't know their own home, when they're that disoriented, it's not unlikely that something bad is going to happen.

            We all know alcohol can be dangerous, that's not in dispute. But to say that the gun is the only factor in this tragedy is naive.

            Again, I think people who own guns for the purpose of shooting intruders are cowards. I've taken plenty of heat for that opinion from the RKBA crowd.

            But at the same time, I don't see how the homeowner is solely to blame here. The kid didn't even know where he was. That WAS a factor in this- a huge one.

            I'm not saying that if he hadn't been drunk this wouldn't have happened. I'm saying that if he hadn't been THAT drunk this probably wouldn't have happened.

            P.S. I am not a crackpot.

            by BoiseBlue on Mon Mar 18, 2013 at 08:03:30 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  the chances of DEATH from drinking too much (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              LilithGardener

              aside from getting behind the wheel--and in rare cases alcohol poisoning--are minuscule.

              Get into trouble?  Sure.  Get killed?  Highly unlikely.

              Look--I don't dispute in the least that the alcohol played a role.  Obviously.  But we're not talking 50-50 blame here.

    •  It happens frequently (4+ / 0-)

      I'm not condoning it, but stumbling drunkenly into the wrong house is one of those things that everybody knows somebody who's done it.

      Gun, alcohol, and fear all played a role.

      •  Happened to me a half-dozen times, living near (0+ / 0-)

        a university. 1am, 2am, 3am -- kids would stumble into my living room thinking they were home or at a friend's house (if I'd left the door unlocked, which I did if I was still up).

        They'd come in, walk into the middle of the room and say "hello" before figuring out they were in the wrong house. I found it rather amusing.

        Not once, not once did it cross my mind to feel the least bit threatened. Let alone to think of having a gun as protection. Let alone threatening them with the gun. Let alone actually shooting them.

        This irresponsible asshat, Donald West Wilder II, couldn't even tell a drunken 16-yo from a violent burglar, yet feels he is responsible enough to own a gun, and has the authority to kill someone in cold blood? Yes, it requires split-second judgment (body language, verbal cues, etc.); and Wilder obviously failed. How did he know it wasn't his teen daughter's boyfriend sneaking in for a rendezvous? We don't know what was said. But we know that Wilder was wrong and killed an innocent child. I hope he rots in hell.

    •  I've been that drunk (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      jayden, LilithGardener, Paul1a

      when I was dropped off at my house by friends, especially at that age.

      Luckily, I lived in the only red house on the street--easy for a completely drunk me or my don't-live-there friends to remember.

      "Maybe: it's a vicious little word that could slay me"--Sara Bareilles

      by ChurchofBruce on Mon Mar 18, 2013 at 08:11:11 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  We underestimate alcohol (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      gerrilea, BoiseBlue

      We even treat it as funny sometimes. We even say "alcohol and drugs" as if it weren't a drug.

      Alcohol misuse kills, over and over.

      Freedom isn't free. Patriots pay taxes.

      by Dogs are fuzzy on Tue Mar 19, 2013 at 01:03:32 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I wonder if the homeowner flipped (4+ / 0-)

    ...the lights on at the top of the stairs? Guess he must have to kill with only one shot.



    Denial is a drug.

    by Pluto on Mon Mar 18, 2013 at 07:45:02 PM PDT

  •  I am sure the NRA will count this as a successful (4+ / 0-)

    gun defense of the home. They will add it up as a statistic to prove how "guns save lives"

    Tragic all the way around.

    "If you don't sin, then Jesus died for nothing!" (on a sign at a Mardi Gras parade in New Orleans)

    by ranger995 on Mon Mar 18, 2013 at 08:20:05 PM PDT

  •  it would be much better (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    PavePusher, FrankRose, gerrilea

    to call the police and have them shoot him instead.

    Your end of the Constitution is sinking.

    by happymisanthropy on Mon Mar 18, 2013 at 08:33:11 PM PDT

  •  This is a terribly sad tragedy. I must say (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    LilithGardener, Paul1a

    I find some of the comments here astoundingly cold and callous. Teenagers often do stupid things that get them into trouble, they certainly don't deserve to die for them. If it was your teenager who was killed, those of you making supportive comments of the shooter, would be whistling a vastly different tune. Shame on those of you making heartless comments. I cannot believe a grownup cannot tell the difference between a malicious intruder and a confused, drunk 16 year old kid.

    "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." - John F. Kennedy -7.8., -6.6

    by helpImdrowning on Mon Mar 18, 2013 at 10:39:40 PM PDT

    •  Heartless? (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      gerrilea, noway2, FrankRose

      The man was awoken in the middle of the night, found another man in his home, and ordered him to leave.

      When he didn't, he judged him to be a threat and fired on him.

      There was no lapse in judgement on the homeowner's part. This was a proper use of deadly force, even in states that lack the Castle Doctrine (as the guy was blocking the stairs, and thus, the only means of escape.)

      He did nothing wrong. That's why he's being defended.

      •  A sixteen year old kid is not a man and (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Paul1a

        frankly you are an abomination of a human being to suggest that this minor child deserved to die because he made the stupid mistake of getting drunk and entering the wrong home. There is seriously something wrong with you if you cannot find, somewhere in your small Grinch heart, the wherewithal to understand the devastating consequences to this young man's family for his loss, and the loss of a potential future life. I pity you for your ugliness of spirit.

        "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." - John F. Kennedy -7.8., -6.6

        by helpImdrowning on Tue Mar 19, 2013 at 03:28:29 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  A tragedy for all involved... (4+ / 0-)

    But further prove that when you have a hammer every problem looks like a nail.

    Things like this are a large part of my reasoning for never owning a gun.

    "I don't give them Hell. I just tell the truth about them and they think it's Hell."

    by Notthemayor on Tue Mar 19, 2013 at 12:25:50 AM PDT

  •  Actions and choices have consequnces, even at 16. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Neo Control

    Tragic yes, but I can't fault the home owner who was in every way justified in defending himself in his home.  

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