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According to this report, the Bolivian plane had to land because of a faulty fuel gauge:

Control tower: Do you need any assistance?

Pilot: Not at this moment. We need to land because we cannot get a correct indication of the fuel indication so as a precaution we need to land.

In addition, France and Spain both deny forcing the plane to reroute, though Spain says it denied entry until they found out the Bolivian President was on board.

The plane was searched.  But, if anyone was paying attention, and I bet the Spying US Government was, Snowden could not have been on the plane.  The airport the Bolivian plane took off from was 27 miles, on the other side of Moscow, from the airport where Snowden is.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Tip Jar (26+ / 0-)

    "Harass us, because we really do pay attention. Look at who's on the ballot, and vote for the candidate you agree with the most. The next time, you get better choices." - Barney Frank

    by anonevent on Wed Jul 03, 2013 at 06:54:09 PM PDT

  •  How dare you bring facts into this. n/t (16+ / 0-)

    John Roberts? Melville Fuller?? WTF is the difference???.

    by Walt starr on Wed Jul 03, 2013 at 07:03:05 PM PDT

    •  God Knows the Free Press Wasn't Doing It Today. nt (4+ / 0-)

      We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

      by Gooserock on Wed Jul 03, 2013 at 07:25:26 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  From the article... (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      CroneWit, ukit, antirove, JesseCW
      Two officials with the French Foreign Ministry said Wednesday that Morales' plane had authorization to fly over France. They would not comment on why Bolivian officials said otherwise. They spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to be publicly named according to ministry policy.
      So you are saying that sources that are not allowed by the government they work who divulge information is a good thing? And can always be trusted?

      Interesting, I will keep that in mind as I read your other posts.

      We reached out to the embassies of Portugal and Italy Wednesday afternoon; neither had representatives immediately available to answer questions. Italian authorities didn't respond to requests from the Associated Press either.
      Your standards of factual evidence are rather thin, eems to be many sides to this developing story...did you read the article or just jump to be the first to snidely comment.
    •  Suck my Richard, Walt (1+ / 3-)
      Recommended by:
      Shahryar
      Hidden by:
      Dogs are fuzzy, second gen, reginahny

      I swear to farking Jeebus, you are the biggest tool ever to inhabit DKos.  That's damning with faint praise, by the way.

      How on God's green Earth do you cash your troll-a-day paycheck and look at yourself in the mirror every morning?

      "Mitt who? That's an odd name. Like an oven mitt, you mean? Oh, yeah, I've got one of those. Used it at the Atlas Society BBQ last summer when I was flipping ribs."

      by Richard Cranium on Wed Jul 03, 2013 at 08:46:00 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  WHAT fuel guage? (0+ / 0-)

      That is just the spin you and no doubt reports are putting on the conversation between the tower and the plane. Nowhere does the pilot mention fuel guage or even fuel problems.

      If you read the rather garbled wording, it is more than likely that the pilot was having to try to explain a unique situation rather than using the standard alerts he had learnt in English.

      As I read it, they were unable to calculate the amount of fuel they needed to get to a further refueling airport because there was a large block of airspace which they had been banned from flying over. That was preventing them from reaching the original stopover, Lisbon. With that uncertainty, they diverted to the nearest large airport in order to resolve the political/diplomatic situation.

      We will work, we will play, we will laugh, we will live. We will not waste one moment, nor sacrifice one bit of our freedom, because of fear.

      by Lib Dem FoP on Thu Jul 04, 2013 at 06:20:24 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Not sure anyone really knows where Snowden is (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Karl Rover

    I'm sure if someone wanted to get him out of one airport to another they could have.

    The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy;the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness

    by CTMET on Wed Jul 03, 2013 at 07:09:54 PM PDT

    •  airports (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      second gen

      But that would mean bringing him through immigration, which opens up legal issues.  If Bolivia really wanted to bring Snowden home, they could have moved their airplane over to the other airport, too, but they didn't.

      •  Right. It's impossible for Russia to opt (0+ / 0-)

        not to run him through immigration.

        C'mon.  Try.

        Mr. Universe is a known degenerate Robotophile, and his sources include former Browncoat Traitors. What is their agenda in leaking top secret information about the Reavers and endangering us all?

        by JesseCW on Thu Jul 04, 2013 at 01:37:38 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Couldn't they just stick him in some other (0+ / 0-)

        plane without going through immigration...a helicopter??? He might be able to go out the way he came in without passing through immigration. I have to think the Russians would have some way.

        The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy;the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness

        by CTMET on Thu Jul 04, 2013 at 11:47:33 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Unless Everyone's Communicating in Manx (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      marykk, CroneWit, jayden, crose

      via passenger pigeon, those with a Need to Know are likely to know.

      We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

      by Gooserock on Wed Jul 03, 2013 at 07:26:43 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I bet he's not where they say he is (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      PeterHug, CTMET

      Too much disinformation floating around

      Happy just to be alive

      by exlrrp on Wed Jul 03, 2013 at 08:03:34 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  it's strange that (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        CTMET

        the transit area is swarming with journalists, but none have seen him there. If he's still in Russia, I suspect that, despite Putin's claims, he's been moved into an area where he can be "debriefed".

        "It's almost as if we're watching Mitt Romney on Safari in his own country." -- Jonathan Capeheart

        by JackND on Wed Jul 03, 2013 at 08:31:10 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  This can't possibly be true. (13+ / 0-)

    I was assured by this diary that an act of war had been committed.

    The more I think about it if I'm Evo Morales

    We were not ahead of our time, we led the way to our time.

    by i understand on Wed Jul 03, 2013 at 07:11:50 PM PDT

  •  It's too late, really (11+ / 0-)

    Kind of like happens with false right wing news stories, it'll get accepted as fact and referred to as fact again and again into the future, despite facts that contradict.

    The whole thing sounded like baloney to me.

  •  Your Assertion (17+ / 0-)

    Is not supported by the quotes from the cockpit on the plane.

    Moreover, given that France has now apologized to President Morales for the incident certainly indicates that the other countries accused were involved in either preventing the plane from entering their airspace, or preventing it from landing to refuel without being harrassed or searched.

    "I'll believe that corporations are people when I see Rick Perry execute one."

    by bink on Wed Jul 03, 2013 at 07:25:05 PM PDT

  •  this would explain why France apologized (7+ / 0-)
  •  I don't think they landed (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ask, 3goldens, Sky Net, bleeding blue

    because of the fuel gauges .
    I doubt that they decided to turn around and back track to the airport they landed at because of fuel gauge problems .
    If they needed to land they were closer to

    Klagenfurt Airport
    Flughafenstraße 60-64, 9020 Klagenfurt am Wörthersee, Austria ‎

    Graz Airport
    Flughafenstraße 51, 8073 Feldkirchen bei Graz, Austria ‎

    Salzburg Airport
    Innsbrucker Bundesstraße 95, 5020 Salzburg, Austria ‎

    Innsbruck Airport
    Fürstenweg 180, 6020 Innsbruck, Austria

    So why did they decide to turn around and fly farther ?

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/...

    My take on it , they were heading to the Canary Islands , they found their way blocked when they were over Austria , they didn't have the range / fuel to head out over the ocean and make it to the other side , they turned around and talked about what to do next , they knew that they had lots of fuel onboard , a few thousands miles worth , they could fly back to Moscow , they decided to stop at Vienna and take care of what the real problems were , the blockage .
    If the aircraft had extra bladders onboard and they made it out over the Atlantic , saying they were going to stop at the Canary Islands for fuel and then they didn't stop for fuel because of the bladders ...

    The standard you walk past is the standard you accept. David Morrison

    by indycam on Wed Jul 03, 2013 at 07:26:03 PM PDT

  •  Thank you for this info (6+ / 0-)

    But I dont know what good it will do.

    This place has really lost its mind. If something doesnt fit in an anti-Obama narrative, I dont think anyone is going to care.

    •  It's time for the sane to take back DKos (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      sewaneepat, reginahny, CwV, samddobermann

      These stories are a distraction from important stuff like jobs, sequester, student loan rates, etc.

      We also need to get geared up for the 2014 elections.  If we want to get Gitmo closed and redo the Patriot Act we have to elect a better Senate and House.

      For Womens Rights and our Schools we need to get busy in the states and local elections.

      Congressional elections have consequences!

      by Cordyc on Thu Jul 04, 2013 at 12:41:30 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  The Fourth Amendment is very unimportant. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Just Bob, jabney

        That's what they say at OFA anyway.

        Now, look over there >>>>

        Mr. Universe is a known degenerate Robotophile, and his sources include former Browncoat Traitors. What is their agenda in leaking top secret information about the Reavers and endangering us all?

        by JesseCW on Thu Jul 04, 2013 at 01:40:42 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  FINALLY. A poster with brains. Thank you. (12+ / 0-)

    ALL aircraft (large or small, commercial or private) are required to calculate at least a 45 minute fuel reserve for emergencies.

    Unlike a car, the pilot cannot coast to the side of the road if s/he runs out of gas.  The plane falls to the ground.

    The Atlantic refueling stop was the Canary Islands (Spanish territory), and probably was close to the maximum flying distance from Moscow for the business jet involved.

    Either a) the plane was burning more fuel enroute than originally estimated, b) a fuel gauge was reading incorrectly, or c) both.

    A non-emergency LANDING at a foreign airport requires on-site customs (not available at all airports at all hours) and is a far different permit application than flying over foreign countries.  

    Many airports have neither the runway length nor the proper fuel for specific jet engines and can only accept declared emergencies.

    Every pilot must have acceptable designated alternate airports planned along their routes.

    Without declaring an emergency, the air-to-ground communication shows that the pilots of this airplane seem to have followed normal procedures for the equipment issue with which they were confronted, and diverted to an airport they knew could handle all their needs.

    Everything and anything else is what several early articles properly reported - rumors.

    "When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty (Antonin Scalia, John Boner, or Scotty Walker (pick your favorite) said in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less."

    by Eman on Wed Jul 03, 2013 at 07:31:38 PM PDT

    •  Nice concise and B/S (8+ / 0-)

      His flight was scheduled to refuel in Lisbon. Once airborne, Portugal told him no.

      Reality

      Morales originally planned to fly home from a Moscow summit via Western Europe, stopping in Lisbon, Portugal and Guyana to refuel.
      While you have lots of nice concise factoids, those factoids have no bearing on this flight. He was scheduled to fly to Lisbon (not the Canary Islands). When airborne, he started getting jerked around. The plane would have loved to go to the Canary Islands, but all the countries in the way denied access. They were forced to land in Austria due to fuel constraints (see map of Europe).

      Usually, presidential planes aren't treated with the same custom requirements as average commercial travel. But that is if you actually respect other nations.

      •  Some of your non-factoids (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        second gen, reginahny
        Usually, presidential planes aren't treated with the same custom requirements as average commercial travel.
        For pre-arranged landings absolutely.  For mid-air changes not so much.  Every indication is that the routine answer is most likely no.

        From the Huff-Po you quoted:

        Portugal said it had granted permission for the plane to fly through its air space but declined Bolivia's request for a refueling stop in Lisbon due to unspecified technical reasons.
        Since I don't have the filed flight plan I can't confirm or deny the various rumors of Lisbon v. Canary Islands.  

        But your idea of using the MAP is a great idea.  Especially since pilots like to fly direct routes and political planes do get preference.  1) Google Map Canary Islands and expand the view to include Moscow.  2) Take the direct route and the turn to the south before it diverted to Vienna.  3) Continue the straight line.  4)  Draw your own conclusions... but I think their flight plan would have missed Lisbon by several hundred miles.

        Can't find the link to this quote, but since it is direct and negative I assume it is accurate...

        "They want to frighten and intimidate me but they won't scare me," Morales said before finally taking off to Spain's Canary Islands and on to Brazil and then home.
        Personally, I rely upon the air-to-ground recording of the pilots who were probably the least political of anyone speaking about this event.
        We need to land because we cannot get a correct indication of the fuel indication – we need to land.
        I'm glad that you agree with the fact that the pilots reported they had an indicated fuel problem (whether it was an actual fuel problem or an indicator problem, they made the correct command decision)... because then you can read the mathematics of the next poster for a good giggle...

        Only two things are verifiable public facts relevant to this case.  The original flight plan and the radio transmissions.  

        As most decent articles have stated about the rest of it, pro or con, "...there were rumors that..." or "...he believed that..."

        "When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty (Antonin Scalia, John Boner, or Scotty Walker (pick your favorite) said in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less."

        by Eman on Wed Jul 03, 2013 at 09:28:13 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Moscow to Canary Islands 3200ish miles (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mickT

      Moscow to Veinna - 1000ish miles
      Vienna to Canary Islands - 1200ish miles

      Falcon 900EX , 5,180 miles

      They would have left Moscow with a fuel load to go the 4000ish miles from Moscow to Canary Islands .

      They had only gone 1000ish miles ,
      they would have had at least 1200ish miles worth of fuel on board when they decided to land .

      They didn't land in dire need of fuel .
      If their path was not blocked they would have flown on till they got to the Canary Islands .

      The standard you walk past is the standard you accept. David Morrison

      by indycam on Wed Jul 03, 2013 at 08:32:58 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Stop with the Canary Islands crap, please (4+ / 0-)

        That was NOT in the original flight plan, as you have been TOLD.

        The plane was originally supposed to refuel in LISBON.

        LISBON, PORTUGAL.

        Which is the last logical gas-up stop on the way west from Europe.

        Calculate Moscow to Lisbon, please.

        They were NOT ALLOWED to enter Portuguese air space - or French, Spanish, or ITALIAN air space either.

        The plane did a HARD 180 over western Austria - something that is NEVER done without extreme circumstances being involved - and headed back the way it had come.

        They probably WERE short of fuel by the time they were near Vienna.

        Now calculate VIENNA, AUSTRIA to Gran Canaria, please. MOSCOW NO LONGER HAD ANYTHING TO DO WITH IT.

        That will give you a more accurate idea of that little plane's fuel capacity.

        And maybe then you'll have some idea what you are jabbering about.

        If it's
        Not your body,
        Then it's
        Not your choice
        And it's
        None of your damn business!

        by TheOtherMaven on Wed Jul 03, 2013 at 09:58:08 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  What a nasty little comment . (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          i understand
          MOSCOW NO LONGER HAD ANYTHING TO DO WITH IT.
          Yelling bullshit don't make it right .
          They probably WERE short of fuel by the time they were near Vienna.
          "Probably" ? What a very convincing argument .
          They were NOT ALLOWED to enter Portuguese air space - or French, Spanish, or ITALIAN air space either.
          Did I say otherwise ?
          The plane did a HARD 180 over western Austria - something that is NEVER done without extreme circumstances being involved - and headed back the way it had come.
          "NEVER" ? You don't know what the you are talking about .  You are just making up bullshit .
          .....................................
          Now calculate VIENNA, AUSTRIA to Gran Canaria, please.
          I already did that .
          http://www.dailykos.com/...
          Vienna to Canary Islands - 1200ish miles
          http://en.wikipedia.org/...
          Gran Canaria (Spanish pronunciation: [ɡɾaŋ kaˈna.ɾja]; originally meaning 'Great [Island] of Dogs') is the second most populous island of the Canary Islands, a Spanish archipelago, with a population of 838,397 which constitutes approximately 40% of the population of the archipelago. Located in the Atlantic Ocean about 150 kilometers (~93 miles) off the northwestern coast of Africa and about 1350 km (~838 miles) from Europe.[1]
          Your asking me to do what I have already done shows that you are out of the loop and that's no ones fault but your own , you are abusive , wrong and out of touch .

          .............................

          Moscow - "LISBON, PORTUGAL" = 2425.26 miles .
          Moscow - Vienna = 1037.24 miles

          So if they fueled in Moscow for the trip to Lisbon Portugal
          they had on board fuel to fly at least 2500ish miles , they had flown just over 1000ish miles . They had on board fuel to fly another 1500ish miles .

          That will give you a more accurate idea of that little plane's fuel capacity.

          And maybe then you'll have some idea what you are jabbering about.

          The same results when substituting "LISBON, PORTUGAL" for Canary Islands .
          You argument falls apart hopelessly . The results show that you have no clue .

          The standard you walk past is the standard you accept. David Morrison

          by indycam on Thu Jul 04, 2013 at 07:48:03 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Looks like you were just spewing when you said (0+ / 0-)

          "LISBON, PORTUGAL."

          Spanish Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy said in Berlin that, while FAB-001 had permission to refuel in the Canary Islands, it was important Snowden was not aboard.
          It flew over Italy, France, Spain and Portugal, stopping over in the Canary Islands, where it refueled around noon EST on Wednesday.
          ....................................
          Which is the last logical gas-up stop on the way west from Europe.
          Nope , you are just bullshitting . The logical last place to refuel is the Canary Islands . And in fact , that is what planned to do and what they did .

          The standard you walk past is the standard you accept. David Morrison

          by indycam on Thu Jul 04, 2013 at 08:09:19 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Were you following the story AS IT UNFOLDED? (0+ / 0-)

            I WAS - but it's becoming increasingly clear that YOU are relying on third-hand, fourth-hand, twentieth-hand, garbled, out-of-date disinformation.

            Mapcrow says the distance from Moscow to Lisbon is 2425.26 miles (round that to 2426 for convenience).

            Maximum range of a Falcon 900 (type of plane used by President Morales): 4,598 mi

            Distance from Moscow to Tenerife (major airport in the Canary Islands): 4166 mi

            You DON'T, if you are at all sane, plan a flight with that little margin for error!!!*

            Q.E.D.:The original flight plan was Moscow to Lisbon. Tuesday, July 2.

            The flight plan was denied, while the plane was in flight over Austria. Tuesday, July 2.

            The plane TURNED BACK and headed East. Tuesday, July 2.

            The plane landed at Vienna claiming low fuel/faulty fuel gauge. Tuesday, July 2.

            Discussions over how to proceed from Vienna continued for 10-14 hours. Tuesday July 2-Wednesday July 3.

            Flight plan finally agreed upon involved departure from Vienna and refueling in the Canary Islands. Wednesday, July 3. Distance: 2670 miles. (A little more than Moscow to Lisbon, but still well within the plane's limits.)

            France apologizes for "delay in approving [original] flight plan" - Thursday, July 4.

            If it's
            Not your body,
            Then it's
            Not your choice
            And it's
            None of your damn business!

            by TheOtherMaven on Thu Jul 04, 2013 at 10:06:29 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  You still don't get it , you fail . (0+ / 0-)
              Maximum range of a Falcon 900 (type of plane used by President Morales): 4,598 mi
              Distance from Moscow to Tenerife (major airport in the Canary Islands): 4166 mi
              vs
              Moscow to Tenerife = 3775 miles

              If the range of his plane was 4,598 mi and not actually the
              5180 as reported

              Falcon 900EX
                  Long range version, with 22.24 kN (5,000 lbf) TFE731-60 engines and more fuel to give range of 8,340 km (4,501 nm; 5,180 miles). Improved avionics. Entered service 1996.[4]
              http://english.cri.cn/...
              Bolivian President, Evo Morales waves on entering his plane, Falcon 900 EX,
              http://ruvr.co.uk/...
              The Dassault Falcon 900ex took off from Vienna at 10:40 GMT and flew to Las Palmas, Gran Canaria in the Canary Islands to refuel.  It landed at 14:40 GMT.
              http://www.washingtonpost.com/...
              One of the strangest moments of Bolivian Air Force flight FAB-001, which ferried President Evo Morales from Moscow to a perhaps unwanted stopover in Vienna and now to the Canary Islands en route to Bolivia, came shortly after the Dassault Falcon 900EX took a sudden hairpin turn over central Austria.
              http://www.airliners.net/...
              As already reported, the Dassault Falcon 900EX that is the Bolivian Air Force 1
              http://www.taringa.net/...FALCON-900EX.html
              Bolivia, Avion Presidencial DASSAULT FALCON 900EX
              http://www.google.com/...
              pilots must have at least 100 hours flight time to fly this model, a Dassault Falcon 900EX, Bolivia's Minister of the Presidency Oscar Coca told reporters.
              http://eju.tv/...
              El avión Presidencial Falcon 900 EX FAB001 está en Bolivia
              You failed to properly identify the aircraft and its range .
              Failing like that in real life gets people killed .
              Easy mistake for a bullshitter to make .

              http://www.dassaultfalcon.com/...

              Falcon 900EXs routinely covered the 4,237 nm great-circle distance nonstop from Bordeaux to the Little Rock Completion Center in 10-12 hours,
              4237 Nautical Miles (Nm) = 4875.85252 Miles (mi)
              Maximum range of a Falcon 900 (type of plane used by President Morales): 4,598 mi
              4875.85 nonstop
              vs your claim of
              Falcon 900 (type of plane used by President Morales): 4,598 mi
              Turns out you were just bullshitting !

              .............................

              First leg if you want Lisbon .
              Moscow to Lisbon = 2,866.8 m
              They have to have on board fuel to go at least 2,866.8 miles if they are going to fly to Lisbon to pick up more fuel .
              They fly from Moscow to Vienna Austria , a distance of
              1,227.4ish  miles .
              They started with a minimum of 2,866.8 miles worth of fuel , they burnt lets say 1500 miles worth of fuel , that leaves them with 1366.8 miles worth of fuel left unburnt in the tanks .
              With 1366.8 miles worth of fuel in the tank , they were not low on fuel . This is just basic stuff that anyone should be able to understand .

              If on the other hand they were heading to the Canary Islands

              Distance from Moscow to Tenerife (major airport in the Canary Islands): 4166 mi
              and the range is 5,180 miles then they would have 1000ish miles worth of fuel in the tanks when landing at the Canary Islands if they had filled the tanks before leaving Moscow .

              The standard you walk past is the standard you accept. David Morrison

              by indycam on Thu Jul 04, 2013 at 02:54:05 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

  •  You call that a report? (7+ / 0-)

    A fuel gauge malfunction?  I guess that supports the BS about refueling everywhere, but that doesn't explain all of the denials.

    It doesn't explain France's apology either.

  •  More attempts at misinformation (13+ / 0-)
    Bolivia filed a complaint at the United Nations on Wednesday over what it called the kidnapping of its president, Evo Morales, whose plane was diverted to Vienna amid suspicions that it was carrying the surveillance whistleblower Edward Snowden.

    The country's ambassador to the UN, Sacha Llorenti, said the enforced rerouting to Austria was an act of aggression and a violation of international law. The US admitted that it had been in contact with other nations over potential flights by Snowden.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/...

    Or of course we could take the word of the two anonymous sources from your article...

    They spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to be publicly named according to ministry policy.
    Hell, even the rest of the story that you did link to goes on to call in dispute the actions of the other countries.
    •  So, because the President of Bolivia reacted (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      jan4insight, sviscusi, Cordyc, reginahny

      to an inconvenience the same way some Kossacks did, that proves. . .

      I'd like to start a new meme: "No means no" is a misnomer. It should be "Only 'Yes' means yes." Just because someone doesn't say "No" doesn't mean they've given consent. If she didn't say "Yes", there is no consent.

      by second gen on Wed Jul 03, 2013 at 07:47:21 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  When your equipment (5+ / 0-)

        is malfunctioning and you are requesting landing and instead countries are denying you airspace that is less a matter of inconvenience and can become a matter of life and death.

        If Air Force One was experiencing issues and needed to land, and Bolivia and the rest of the South American countries denied that request, you would be reacting the exact same way you are to this?

      •  Really? (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Lost and Found, JesseCW, jabney

        Did you read the reports as it happened?  It is clear the plane was denied the right to fly over these countries' airspace and you want to blame Morales?  And to call being turned away- as a head of state- as an inconvenience is astounding.  

        •  Information coming in "as it happens" is rarely (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          exlrrp, reginahny

          accurate. Look at the Boston Marathon Bombing for an example.

          Whenever someone hears something that sounds like a juicy scandal, those with an agenda are quick to get their version out "as it happens". I prefer to wait until the facts come out.

          I'd like to start a new meme: "No means no" is a misnomer. It should be "Only 'Yes' means yes." Just because someone doesn't say "No" doesn't mean they've given consent. If she didn't say "Yes", there is no consent.

          by second gen on Wed Jul 03, 2013 at 11:10:08 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Pie. SPLAT! (0+ / 0-)

            If it's
            Not your body,
            Then it's
            Not your choice
            And it's
            None of your damn business!

            by TheOtherMaven on Thu Jul 04, 2013 at 10:09:28 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Kitty Litter Cake to go with your pie. (0+ / 0-)

              Ingredients

              Original recipe makes 20 servings Change Servings

                  1 (18.25 ounce) package German chocolate cake mix

                  1 (18.25 ounce) package white cake mix

                  2 (3.5 ounce) packages instant vanilla pudding mix

                  1 (12 ounce) package vanilla sandwich cookies

                  3 drops green food coloring

                  1 (12 ounce) package tootsie rolls

              Directions

                  Prepare cake mixes and bake according to package directions (any size pan).

                  Prepare pudding according to package directions and chill until ready to assemble.

                  Crumble sandwich cookies in small batches in a food processor, scraping often. Set aside all but 1/4 cup. To the 1/4 cup add a few drops of green food coloring and mix.

                  When cakes are cooled to room temperature, crumble them into a large bowl. Toss with 1/2 of the remaining cookie crumbs, and the chilled pudding. You probably won't need all of the pudding, you want the cake to be just moist, not soggy.

                  Line kitty litter box with the kitty litter liner. Put cake mixture into box.

                  Put half of the unwrapped tootsie rolls in a microwave safe dish and heat until softened. Shape the ends so that they are no longer blunt, and curve the tootsie rolls slightly. Bury tootsie rolls randomly in the cake and sprinkle with half of the remaining cookie crumbs. Sprinkle a small amount of the green colored cookie crumbs lightly over the top.

                  Heat 3 or 4 of the tootsie rolls in the microwave until almost melted. Scrape them on top of the cake and sprinkle lightly with some of the green cookie crumbs. Heat the remaining tootsie rolls until pliable and shape as before. Spread all but one randomly over top of cake mixture. Sprinkle with any remaining cookie crumbs. Hang the remaining tootsie roll over side of litter box and sprinkle with a few green cookie crumbs. Serve with the pooper scooper for a gross Halloween dessert.

  •  interesting what people want to believe (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jan4insight, orestes1963, exlrrp

    all around.

  •  According to this report: (3+ / 0-)

    It was a UFO attack

    Pilot: We are surrounded by unusual objects that are blinding us, we need to land.

    Control Tower: That happens a lot this time of year, please reverse course and take vector 210.

  •  If this... (5+ / 0-)

    is true, it makes Chris Hayes' "Evo was essentially stopped and frisked" comment that he opened his show with rather stale even before his rerun airs.

    Then again, it's probably not wise to open a show with histrionics if you aren't sure.

    "It's almost as if we're watching Mitt Romney on Safari in his own country." -- Jonathan Capeheart

    by JackND on Wed Jul 03, 2013 at 08:04:51 PM PDT

  •  So if it was all the fuel guage then way is it (4+ / 0-)

    being reported tha France has apologized for denying overflight?
    http://www.dailykos.com/...

    I'd tip you but they cut off my tip box. The TSA would put Moses, Jesus, and Muhammad on the no-fly list.

    by OHdog on Wed Jul 03, 2013 at 08:09:01 PM PDT

  •  Larger question on Bolivia (0+ / 0-)

    Though a bit off topic.  Why is Morales flying a corporate jet?  Obviously we have Air Force One, but most other world leaders fly commercial, particularly from countries that are pretty poor.  Seems like a lot of swag for a man of the people.

    •  Maybe (0+ / 0-)

      1. There are no direct flights between La Paz and Moscow

      2. The geography of the country precludes much internal transport by road or rail in reasonable time.

      We will work, we will play, we will laugh, we will live. We will not waste one moment, nor sacrifice one bit of our freedom, because of fear.

      by Lib Dem FoP on Thu Jul 04, 2013 at 06:14:59 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  And just how well off is Bolivia? (0+ / 0-)

        By any measure, it is the 2nd or 3rd poorest country (per capita) in the Americas, after Haiti, and just ahead or behind Paraguay, depending on which measure is used.

        So, I dunno, why is the president of Bolivia flying a corporate jet? LD FP's comment explains much.

        I'm part of the "bedwetting bunch of website Democrat base people (DKos)." - Rush Limbaugh, 10/16/2012 Torture is Wrong! We live near W so you don't have to. Send love.

        by tom 47 on Thu Jul 04, 2013 at 07:26:32 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  There is bafflegab and disinfo in that story (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    DeadHead, greengemini, JesseCW

    FAB1 could not - COULD NOT - have reached the Canary Islands from Moscow, and made no attempt whatsoever to do so. They made a HARD 180 and flew BACK into Central Europe, eventually landing at Vienna.

    I have seen the flight path, and that is what they did.

    Negotiations regarding the Canary Islands CANNOT have come into it until the plane was already grounded at Vienna and discussions were underway as to when, where, how, and for what destination it could take off again.

    The one point that is likely to be correct is that the plane left from a different airport than the one Snowden was hiding out at - but when you've got spooks running around with their hair on fire yelling that "he must be stopped and apprehended at all costs", logic and reason don't enter into it much.

    If it's
    Not your body,
    Then it's
    Not your choice
    And it's
    None of your damn business!

    by TheOtherMaven on Wed Jul 03, 2013 at 10:10:42 PM PDT

    •  Oh really ? (0+ / 0-)
      FAB1 could not - COULD NOT - have reached the Canary Islands from Moscow, and made no attempt whatsoever to do so.
      The range on the Falcon 900EX is 5,180 miles , the distance from Moscow to Canary Islands is 3200ish miles . The aircraft has more than enough range to reach the Canary Islands from Moscow .
      Stop bullshitting .

      The standard you walk past is the standard you accept. David Morrison

      by indycam on Thu Jul 04, 2013 at 08:21:07 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Call me bullshitter, I call YOU LIAR!!! (0+ / 0-)

        Moscow to Tenerife, in the Canary Islands, is over 4,000 miles - not "3200ish". This is by official Russian airline figures.

        Maybe the 900 EX has a bit more fuel capacity than a typical 900 (I wasn't able to find specific figures), but that's still a very risky AND STUPID flight plan.

        I did all the conversions, where necessary, in terms of US land miles.

        Maybe you screwed up a conversion, or were using "nautical miles".

        The nautical mile (symbol M, NM or nmi) is a unit of length that is about one minute of arc of latitude measured along any meridian, or about one minute of arc of longitude at the equator. By international agreement it has been set at 1,852 metres exactly (about 6,076 feet).

        That's a lot more than the US 5,280 feet, so it makes distances seem shorter than they really are.

        If it's
        Not your body,
        Then it's
        Not your choice
        And it's
        None of your damn business!

        by TheOtherMaven on Thu Jul 04, 2013 at 10:19:59 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  But today France apologized (0+ / 0-)

    Go figure.

    400ppm : what about my daughter's future?

    by koNko on Thu Jul 04, 2013 at 04:13:36 AM PDT

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