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Hi,

I don't write too often here, but I should really do it more often.
Living outside the US I can often see things that don't get much attention in the states and maybe a different reflection of it.

This is some news that is in all the news papers here in Norway, in British, Russian, Indian, Israeli news etc.

I will just link it first

Edward Snowden: White House attack Russia over 'propaganda platform'

White House Spokesman Jay Carney, said the meeting runs counter to the Russian government's declarations of neutrality in the matter and statements that it has no control over Snowden's presence at the airport.

"Providing a propaganda platform for Mr. Snowden runs counter to the Russian government's previous declarations of Russia's neutrality and that they have no control over his presence in the airport," White House Spokesman Jay Carney said during a news conference in Washington DC on Friday.

I'm not sure how you view this.
I have not seen this news in any US media so far in my searching which is very odd. I might have missed something, but I couldn't find any discussion about it on this site either.

Telling the truth is now "propaganda".

It's the very definition of newspeak.
The Ministry of Truth in Nineteen-Eighty-Four was their propaganda unit.
Правда or Pravda in latin alphabet means truth, and we all know what that represented.

To me this exact thing is very scary. I know the newspeak has been very active since 2001, however I feel that this has taken a new level.

It's not just that the truth is labeled propaganda, but that it is legitimate to hunt down individuals spreading the "propaganda". Nothing is sacred when it comes to stopping it. Even compelling foreign states to search another states head of states plane.

I am interested in what you all think about this and if you even have seen this news in the US?
Am I being paranoid here?
How much will your people take of this?

Last question is being discussed quite thoroughly in Why Are Americans So Passive?, and I think the first answer is true. But will it take starvation before large portions of the population has had enough?

This is not an anti-Obama rant, but rather a rant against the whole system. I had great hopes for him, but it's just been a continuation of something that started with his predecessor, and probably before that too.

Originally posted to tyfon on Sat Jul 13, 2013 at 10:42 AM PDT.

Also republished by The First and The Fourth.

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Comment Preferences

  •  War is Peace (4+ / 0-)

    Freedom is Slavery
    Ignorance is Strength

    (sounds like the Republican party to me . . . no wonder sales of 1984 have taken off. I don't think George Orwell would feel proud in this case, however.)

    And God said, "Let there be light"; and with a Big Bang, there was light. And God said "Ow! Ow My eyes!" and in a flash God separated light from darkness. "Whew! Now that's better. Now where was I. Oh yea . . ."

    by Pale Jenova on Sat Jul 13, 2013 at 11:00:56 AM PDT

  •  Telling the truth is now "propaganda". (11+ / 0-)

    yep

    and Americans don't know the difference

  •  Statements Contrary to the Wishes of Government or (8+ / 0-)

    markets are propaganda. Yup.

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Sat Jul 13, 2013 at 11:09:06 AM PDT

    •  Government "or" markets? (0+ / 0-)

      Is there even a difference now?

      I get your point, I am not being combative at all - agree totally, just remarkable how little difference there is.

      Blessed are the peacemakers, the poor, the meek and the sick: The "party of Jesus" wouldn't invite him to their convention - fearing his "platform."

      by 4CasandChlo on Sat Jul 13, 2013 at 12:33:31 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Sorry (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    tyfon, Don midwest, CroneWit, Dumbo

    don't have the time to translate the story - hopefully Der Spiegel will but up an English version.

    Here the link for those who read German:

    Putin-Vertrauter warnt vor Todesstrafe für Snowden in den USA - SPIEGEL ONLINE

    Barack Obama macht den Streit über die Auslieferung von Edward Snowden zur Chefsache: Der US-Präsident telefoniert mit Russlands Staatspräsident Wladimir Putin. Doch der bleibt hart. Russische Politiker fordern Asyl für Snowden - weil ihm in den USA die Todesstrafe drohe.

    The gist is that Obama seems to have called Putin before the Snowden conference. Seems like Obama asked again for the extration of Snowden, which Putin refused. One of the reasons is that the US has the death penalty.

    Read the European view at the European Tribune

    by fran1 on Sat Jul 13, 2013 at 11:10:34 AM PDT

    •  Most countries that have ratified human rights (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Don midwest, OldDragon, CroneWit, Dumbo

      will have problems extraditing him due to the way Manning was treated.

      Russia has never extradited anyone, so I don't think this is will be the first one.

      But that phone call might have triggered this press release. It's food for thought that it's not reported in between all the Zimmerman stuff from US media. At least as far as I can tell.

  •  Bread and Circuses (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    tyfon, DRo, Don midwest, CroneWit

    As long as Americans have what they need to be comfortable and listen to our filtered news, which resembles propaganda on many channels, they don't rock the boat.  There are subtle changes, like search engines are noticing a drop in traffic here, while one that lets people search anonymously has seen an increase in traffic.  People who have boring lives, boring e-mails and boring phone conversations don't really care if they are being spied on here.  That pretty well describes the lives of most Americans.  Also, we've been sold the idea that we have to trade privacy for security.  The people living boring comfortable lives want security.  They'll trade in privacy.

    Shine like the humblest star.

    by ljm on Sat Jul 13, 2013 at 11:15:42 AM PDT

    •  Budweiser, TV and the tablets (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      DRo, CroneWit, ljm, SeaTurtle

      With the digital medias it is quite easy to "rewrite" stuff like in Nineteen-Eighty-Four too.

      Personally I live a very comfortable life here in Norway, but I feel violated by a lot of what has come forth.

      I knew that nothing I write on the internet is private, however this is set in system on such a big scale. And since I work with big data I know how easy it is to use it.

      It's scary.

      •  It is scary (0+ / 0-)

        You are lucky to live where you do.  

        Shine like the humblest star.

        by ljm on Sat Jul 13, 2013 at 02:22:49 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  precisely, tyfon, (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        tyfon
        With the digital medias it is quite easy to "rewrite" stuff like in Nineteen-Eighty-Four too.
        We see the same dangers.  As I said in a comment yesterday:
        3.)  Censoring and changing ANY PRINTED PUBLICATION on IPads, Kindles, etc. Perhaps this one will come a little later than sooner, but copywright laws will be rewritten so that "interested power players" can edit and change anything not in their favor.  How bout editing "1984"? The works of Chris Hedges? etc. etc.  All to keep the masses in their place and not let them develop radical ideas.
        Thank you for writing this diary and discussing your observations.

        I think that the handling of the Snowden issue has been a major #@^* UP.  I mean MAJOR.  Regardless of what anyone thinks about Snowden, the US has come across as an insufferable bully.  

        Confronting our allies?  Stopping the plane of a head of state?  Is John Kerry an effin Keystone Kop?  He certainly must be advising O.  You never, never ask someone in business for something PUBLICALLY that they could say 'no' too.  It puts them on the spot and puts you on the spot.  You negotiate behind the scenes and any public stuff is set up to save face for both parties.  This has all the earmarks of restarting the Cold War.  Some neocon who is really stupid has O's ear here.  Unbelievable.

        You know, I just don't think that things would have been handled this way if HRC was SOS.  I think that as Kerry's debut here, it has been a major fiasco, nothwithstanding that a lot of stuff has come from the WH.  But things were much smoother diplomatically under HRC.  (and trust me I am not a fan of hers. )  Of course, she had the Big Dawg to turn to for advice.

        Something has majorly gone wrong with the decision making in the WH/SOS in this instance.  It is frightening.  Its back to the Wild, Wild West showdowns at the OK Corral.

        We Must DISARM THE NRA The next life you save may be ONE OF YOUR OWN!

        by SeaTurtle on Sat Jul 13, 2013 at 03:24:45 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Tank you for the comment (0+ / 0-)

          I think this issue has been downplayed too much.

          Richard Stallman is often called an open source fundamentalist, but he is one of the old cyberpunks that has the mantra
          Information wants to be free

          This correlates very well with the issue of rewriting history like in the book.
          If you don't control your media you can't trust it anymore.

          I strongly believe in having control of my own situation so to me he is one of the champions.

          You can say what you want about Snowden etc, but all he has really done is releasing information on how your government operates.

          Stallman acknowledge this, and I think this image sais a lot

          Wikileaks twitter

          PS: I'm also striving hard to use software that is peer reviewed and has open source code.

  •  I'm sure the Russians will put that warning (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Don midwest

    in the in box and get right to it as soon as it becomes relevant to reality .
    But it might just sit in the in box until they get back from vacation .

    The standard you walk past is the standard you accept. David Morrison

    by indycam on Sat Jul 13, 2013 at 11:26:36 AM PDT

  •  Perhaps an unfortunate choice of words... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SeaTurtle

    ...after reading the statements of Jay Carney that seem to be the root of this assertion that the US is "warning" Russia...

    I mean, it's certainly criticism, but criticizing Russia isn't quite the same thing as "Warning Russia"...

    "Ronald Reagan is DEAD! His policies live on but we're doing something about THAT!"

    by leftykook on Sat Jul 13, 2013 at 11:26:51 AM PDT

  •  I noticed that comment by Jay Carney (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    tyfon, OldDragon, CroneWit

    in the paper and a little exclamation point popped into my head followed by a question mark.  Glad to see someone else noticed it.

    Who is going to take Jay to task for this language?

  •  or else what? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    CroneWit, SeaTurtle

    The Cold War ended a quarter century ago.

    Apparently some folks never got the memo.

  •  Edward Snowden's opinions are the truth. (0+ / 0-)

    Got it.

    Non futuis apud Boston

    by kenlac on Sat Jul 13, 2013 at 11:47:35 AM PDT

    •  I wouldn't take his (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      OldDragon, CroneWit

      word for gospel, however judging by the reaction of the US government I would say it's not far from it.

      They want to prosecute him for leaks. In that they have implicitly said that the documents are real.

      At this point I trust what the documents he has released say more than the white house on this issue.

      It's definitely not propaganda, meaning false information to damage them. And even if it was propaganda/false information, it doesn't make you a criminal to post that?

  •  Whitehouse still not "scrambling jets." (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    OldDragon, CroneWit, SeaTurtle

    He's just a 29 yo hacker, afterall.

    He who would trade liberty for security deserves great customer service.

    by Publius2008 on Sat Jul 13, 2013 at 12:07:49 PM PDT

  •  Video (0+ / 0-)

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/...

    Why is the White House denying snowden his  freedom of speech?

  •  It's propaganda! The Emperor is wearing (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    tyfon

    a fine new Armani suit with a silk tie, and he is NOT naked.

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