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Street artist Mark Panzarino, 41, prepares a memorial as he writes the names of the Sandy Hook Elementary School victims during the six-month anniversary of the massacre, at Union Square in New York, June 14, 2013. Six months after a gunman killed 26 children and adults at the elementary school, families and local officials marked the day by honoring the victims and renewing the fight for stricter gun control. REUTERS/Eduardo Munoz
Remember all you want, but if we don't vote, the NRA wins.
My early thoughts following our Colorado recall election losses on Tuesday were focused almost entirely on turnout. The overriding thesis is simple: If our people turn out, we win. But that's easier said than done because:

1) Core Democratic groups (Latinos, African Americans, youth voters, single women) have the worst voter performance, and

2) Republicans will do everything they can to prevent our people from voting.

Colorado featured both: with core Democratic groups staying home, while conservative-instigated court decisions created barriers to voter participation.

An Atlas Project analysis bolsters those observations. On the first point, on voter participation:

Turnout was incredibly low – the lowest in those districts since a 2011 statewide tax referendum. In both districts, turnout was more than 20 points lower than 2012 turnout, from 56.6% to 35.7% in SD-03 and from 41.5% to 21.3% in SD-11.
Those numbers are also well below the 2010 GOP-wave year numbers of 44 percent in SD-03 (Angela Giron), and 29.4 percent in SD-11 (John Morse).

And on the second point:

The unprecedented nature of the election led to several court decisions that confused the electorate and, among other things, disallowed voting by mail — the method historically preferred by Democratic voters vs. GOP voters (by 29.4% in SD-03 and 9.4% in SD-11 in 2012) — presenting Republicans with a dramatic advantage.
Given the razor-thin margin of victory, there's no doubt in my mind that we win Morse's SD-11 if we had vote-by-mail, used by over 50 percent of the district in 2012, and with a nearly 10-point Democratic advantage.

We don't have exit polls to determine who turned out and who didn't, demographically. But note this—the biggest falloff from Democratic performance was in the Pueblo-based Giron's SD-03 district. In that district, 39.7 percent of the voting-age population is Latino, compared to 21.7 percent in SD-11. Given the difficulty in getting the Latino vote to the polls, a larger dropoff makes perfect sense. (Compounded by the fact that all anti-recall persuasion efforts appear to have been done in English.)

Reiterating: Money wasn't a factor, progressive groups outspent conservatives $2.3 million to $500K. It wasn't even close. Yet money isn't enough to get our voters to the polls, at least not how it was spent in those Colorado districts. (Same dynamic played out in 2012, except it was Republicans with the big spending advantages.)

It was disappointing to lose those races, but they serve as the perfect exhibit of the challenges that we face in 2014: If our people turnout, we win. But our people don't like to vote, and Republicans will do everything in their power to encourage that non-participation.

Originally posted to kos on Fri Sep 13, 2013 at 08:52 AM PDT.

Also republished by Repeal or Amend the Second Amendment (RASA), Shut Down the NRA, Firearms Law and Policy, Colorado COmmunity, and Daily Kos.

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Comment Preferences

  •  North Carolina....Poster Child for midterm apathy. (10+ / 0-)

    Mississippi....here we come.

  •  giron also faced (28+ / 0-)

    relentlessly hostile local media, which for her opponents was priceless. but the bottom line is that while some promote the dishonest narrative that we need fear passing gun laws, the truth- and the much bigger picture- is that we have to convince and enable our core constituencies to vote. no matter the obstacles the gop throws in their way, get them to vote.

    The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

    by Laurence Lewis on Fri Sep 13, 2013 at 09:04:30 AM PDT

    •  "push the false narrative" (12+ / 0-)

      Why did these unprecedented & humiliating recalls happen?

      Gun Control is a loser of an issue. It's been proven over and over.
      It's time to drop the excuses and accept reality.

      You can either push for more gun control or have more Democrats, you're not getting both.

      Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

      by FrankRose on Fri Sep 13, 2013 at 09:57:51 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  case in point (15+ / 0-)

        just skip right past what markos posted, and go right to the talking points.

        are you happy they lost, frank? you can do it. are you happy, frank?

        The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

        by Laurence Lewis on Fri Sep 13, 2013 at 10:05:17 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  They didn't recall the gun limits laws (10+ / 0-)

        they punished the kids who wrote the law.

        If Gun Limits are such losers, let me know when those Colorado laws are repealed.

        Effective July 1, Colorado's new laws limit ammunition magazines to 15 rounds and require universal background checks on all gun purchases. Gun buyers, rather than sellers, must pay for their own background checks, a $10 fee.

        give the NRA the Royal Flush join Stop The NRA

        by 88kathy on Fri Sep 13, 2013 at 11:41:53 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  good point (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          88kathy, coquiero

          the Dems still control the state government and the law won't change, and next year is a very different story.  But give Frank Rose his symbolic victory, it's all he's got.  Along with endless spam and ignorant rants about how placing regulations on certain types of guns and ammo, and universal background checks, are depriving us of our "freedom".  
          I'd feel sorry for such pathetic people if they weren't constantly spamming these threads.  

          •  Citizens for a Safer Colorado - (No gun limits) (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Glen The Plumber

            Started a campaign initiative against the law. They have until November (?) to get the 86,105 signatures needed. I do not find the number of signatures obtained.  There are 55 sheriffs in Colorado signed as against these 2 laws.

            HB 1224 and HB 1229.

            But what is left out is that Colorado has Marshalls, and Police Departments, and Police Unions.  I'm thinking the support isn't there.

            I think the NRA found it easier to go after the people than to go after the law. They deal in fear and do not have the signatures to repeal the law. I don't know for sure but I think both campaigns started about the same time.

            And I would add I think that the initiative to repeal the law didn't make it. Now unlimited guns are crowing that they won. Well they did but only kind of.

            give the NRA the Royal Flush join Stop The NRA

            by 88kathy on Fri Sep 13, 2013 at 12:23:59 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Losing 2 seats is neither 'symbolic' nor 'victory' (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Wordsinthewind, ER Doc

            Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

            by FrankRose on Fri Sep 13, 2013 at 01:49:23 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Two laws passed is a victory. (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              tytalus, coquiero, Glen The Plumber

              Let me know when they are repealed.

              You got to be all punishment and scarey. But where are the links to the signatures obtained by the 55 sheriffs and

              86,105 signatures needed. I do not find the number of signatures obtained.  There are 55 sheriffs in Colorado signed as against these 2 laws.

              HB 1224 and HB 1229.

              So crow about it. We know you are organized. But two districts is not Colorado. And two seats does nothing to repeal 2 laws.

              It's gun limits. And unlimited guns and unlimited gun ownership are on the way out.

              You have nothing to contribute to the GOTV conversation. So keep on crowing about your hollow victory.

              give the NRA the Royal Flush join Stop The NRA

              by 88kathy on Fri Sep 13, 2013 at 02:03:19 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  And what a victory it was. (0+ / 0-)

                Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                by FrankRose on Fri Sep 13, 2013 at 02:34:44 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Yes was is because the laws are still on the books (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  coquiero, Glen The Plumber

                  Let me know when the limits on guns and gun ownership are repealed because unlimited guns and gun ownership are so popular and stuff.

                  give the NRA the Royal Flush join Stop The NRA

                  by 88kathy on Fri Sep 13, 2013 at 02:44:52 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  And two Democrats lost their seats over it. (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    DavidMS

                    You care more about gun control than you do about more & better Democrats.

                    This is why gun controllers cost the party so dearly: election losses are worth it to them just so long as their pet issue is attended to; no matter the cost, no matter how ineffective.

                    Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                    by FrankRose on Fri Sep 13, 2013 at 02:57:39 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  It's not either or. Limits on Guns and limits gun (2+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      coquiero, Glen The Plumber

                      on gun ownership is the future.

                      If you could have repealed those laws you would have. But you couldn't and didn't.

                      I don't have to support unlimited guns and unlimited gun ownership to get the tea party out of office.

                      You sliced off a winnable section and won. Closely. The vote was suppressed. The ballots were changed at the last minute. And still you won by only a hair. In an off year election.

                      Kessler and his ilk are not running the show.

                      give the NRA the Royal Flush join Stop The NRA

                      by 88kathy on Fri Sep 13, 2013 at 03:04:44 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Yes. Actually it is. (0+ / 0-)

                        As demonstrated by you referring to Colorado as 'victory'.

                        If a district with more registered Dems & voted +19 for Obama is 'winnable', thanks to gun control then the party is fucked.
                        Not that you care: as you have proven, you care more about gun control than about the party.

                        Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                        by FrankRose on Fri Sep 13, 2013 at 03:13:48 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  You are avoiding the issue. You did succeed in (3+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          coquiero, poco, Glen The Plumber

                          punishing and trying to make everyone fear the unlimited gun and unlimited ownership crowd.

                          But

                          you

                          did

                          not

                          repeal

                          the laws

                          limiting guns

                          HB 1224 and HB 1229.

                          Effective July 1, Colorado's new laws limit ammunition magazines to 15 rounds and require universal background checks on all gun purchases. Gun buyers, rather than sellers, must pay for their own background checks, a $10 fee.
                          If you could have repealed the law, you would have, but you couldn't and didn't.

                          We are talking GOTV here and you have nothing to contribute. Unlimited guns and unlimited gun ownership will not GOTV. Or you would have repealed the laws and recalled all the Democrats in the state.

                          give the NRA the Royal Flush join Stop The NRA

                          by 88kathy on Fri Sep 13, 2013 at 03:21:02 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  Your wording is inaccurate. (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Wordsinthewind

                            They haven't been repealed... yet.

                            Your hate-mail will be graded.

                            by PavePusher on Fri Sep 13, 2013 at 04:48:32 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Oh my wording is accurate. (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            coquiero, Glen The Plumber

                            I said

                            Let me know.

                            PS this would be where you would link to the number of signatures for the repeal effort.

                            86,105 signatures needed.
                            Any crowing about the pallets and pallets of recall signatures for HB 1224 and HB 1229.

                            They hate limits on guns and gun ownership so much there must be pallets and pallets somewhere.

                            give the NRA the Royal Flush join Stop The NRA

                            by 88kathy on Fri Sep 13, 2013 at 05:12:10 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Who gives a shit? (0+ / 0-)

                            What difference does it make if the laws are repealed or not?
                            The party just got a humiliating beating for your precious unenforceable law.

                            Just more evidence that gun controllers couldn't care less about the party or violence.
                            For gun controllers it's just about getting 'them', taking 'their' liberties, for 'their' own good.

                            Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                            by FrankRose on Fri Sep 13, 2013 at 08:58:18 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Frankly my dear you are cussing. Guess there (3+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            indycam, Glen The Plumber, coquiero

                            are no 86,105 signatures on any re-call of the law.

                            You have 55 sheriffs on the wall. You have no marshals at all. You have no police chiefs. You have no police unions. And your 55 sheriffs can be sued for not enforcing the law.

                            You beat up two state representatives and soon everyone will know that's all you got. It wasn't easy or fun and you only won by cheating voters. If you didn't need to cheat you wouldn't have done it.

                            And still guns are not unlimited and gun ownership is not unlimited. Those days are over and everyone knows it.

                            give the NRA the Royal Flush join Stop The NRA

                            by 88kathy on Fri Sep 13, 2013 at 10:59:38 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  WTF (0+ / 0-)

                            Somehow 55 sheriffs publicly coming out against a law (a law that got two Senators repealed) is irrelevant because 'Marshalls'?
                            Whatever you say.
                            Sheriffs have to worry about elections......and as been proven gun control is problematic.

                            "cheating voters"
                            By letting them vote?

                            "guns are not unlimited"
                            Never was.

                            "Those days are over"
                            You mean the political carriers of Morse & Giron?
                            Yeah....I know.

                            Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                            by FrankRose on Sat Sep 14, 2013 at 11:51:55 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Wow. Beautiful comment. (0+ / 0-)

                            "you are cussing"
                            No shit? Thanks for the fucking update.

                            "You have 55 sheriffs"
                            Yet, you somehow think that is a good thing because 'Marshall'?
                            If 55 sheriffs refused to uphold an abortion limiting law, would that be a good thing for Pro-choice, or a bad thing?
                            Way to not even realizing when you are losing.

                            "That's all you got"
                            1) It's not me. It's gun controllers.
                            2) They've got a lot more in store.
                            Thanks for helping them weaken the party.

                            "by cheating the voters"
                            By letting them vote? The election where 20%-30% of Democrats voted for the recall?

                            "Guns are still not unlimited"
                            They never were.

                            "Those days are over"
                            I'm neither Giron nor Morse.
                            Great job ensuring their demise.

                            Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                            by FrankRose on Sun Sep 15, 2013 at 09:33:44 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

          •  "...and the law won't change..." (0+ / 0-)

            Are you sure about that?

            IIRC, most people here were predicting the recall would fail....

            Is it possible that the recall sent enough of a message that the unpopular laws might get repealed, or perhaps put forward as a direct ballot proposition?

            Your hate-mail will be graded.

            by PavePusher on Fri Sep 13, 2013 at 04:46:35 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  You missed a couple things.. (24+ / 0-)

    If you look at the results from Pueblo's clerk posted the other night in a diary by 3doption
    http://www.dailykos.com/...
    It's a mathematical certainty that Dems voted for recall. Too many Dems voted in a way we didn't like.

    A good diary about why we should vote for a Dem even if we disagree on one issue might be helpful. I too didn't like the magazine law CO passed, but voting in a R causes us to lose on all other things I do support. Supporting Dems one disagrees with on one issue is important.

    No one has posted much about local conditions either. The R opponent down in Pueblo is not only Hispanic but highly respected as an honest cop. Understanding local conditions such as opposition to gun control, plus local personalities, has a lot to do with political contests.

    Pueblo is a very tight knit machine Dem town, Hispanic, union, and very Coloradan like from before there was a USA. Better representation a few months ago would have averted this recall.

    “Conservation… is a positive exercise of skill and insight, not merely a negative exercise of abstinence and caution…” Aldo Leopold

    by ban nock on Fri Sep 13, 2013 at 09:10:26 AM PDT

    •  I've said before... (10+ / 0-)

      that many "gun advocates" are also democrats (we even have a group here.) That is what makes this a loosing issue for us. It is kinda like "pro life" republicans who for that one issue loose a section of their base right up front.

      You have named a big segment of that group. Labor democrats often oppose gun control measures that restrict which firearms they can buy. Union jobs frequently pay well and plenty of these democrats collect firearms.

      A conservative is a man with two perfectly good legs who, however, has never learned how to walk forward. Franklin D. Roosevelt

      by notrouble on Fri Sep 13, 2013 at 10:46:08 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  But that doesn't fit the narrative. (6+ / 0-)

        There are those who simply don't want to acknowledge the fact that there are a significant number of Democrats who simply do not and will not support onerous gun-control laws.

        When such laws are pushed, they stay home, or, as was shown in the recall in question, they'll vote based on that issue.

        Yes, I often dress as a pirate. Your point?

        by theatre goon on Fri Sep 13, 2013 at 11:19:10 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I don't think they can ignore me (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          theatre goon, 43north

          I am quite blunt about going after anti-gun pols, D or R.

          Heck, I've been hiderated for it, lol.

          •  It would appear... (4+ / 0-)

            ...that not everyone here agrees with the overall position of "more and better Democrats."

            I can fully understand people leaning more towards either the more or the better, but I see quite a few insisting that only the more is acceptable.

            Yes, I often dress as a pirate. Your point?

            by theatre goon on Fri Sep 13, 2013 at 12:05:10 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  If you don't agree . . . (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              tytalus, coquiero, Glen The Plumber

              then I have to question why you're on this site.  This site's explicit mission is electing more and better Democrats.  If you're willing to see Republicans elected because you are aligned with their views on guns, then you're undermining the site's mission.

              And I'd note that you've just recc'ed a comment about "going after" Democratic politicians.

              "Ça c'est une chanson que j'aurais vraiment aimé ne pas avoir écrite." -- Barbara

              by FogCityJohn on Fri Sep 13, 2013 at 12:47:03 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Didn't say I agreed or disagreed.... (6+ / 0-)

                ...with the overall stance, so, you are attributing to me a stance not taken -- an inherently dishonest tactic.  I certainly didn't say that I am "...willing to see Republicans elected..." so, that part of your assertion is completely unsupportable.

                But, perhaps you were just extremely mistaken in your interpretation.  I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, that this is the case.

                I recced a comment for what was in that comment, nothing more, nothing less.  You know, how we're supposed to do it?  Rec the comment, not the poster...?

                What I recced was a comment in which someone states that they don't support candidates that they don't agree with -- seems perfectly believable, to me, and on-point, particularly when one considers the better part of "more and better Democrats."

                I also recced a comment in which someone stated that they have been HRed for that stance -- proven in this very thread.

                That being the case, both major tenets of the comment seem to be factual and in keeping with the overall site mission statement.

                Now, if you want to discuss my actual position on this little tangent, all you'd have to do is ask me what it is, rather than assigning it to me.

                That is, if you want to have an honest and adult discussion.  If you simply want to attack me for positions not taken, you don't really need my input for that, now, do you?

                Yes, I often dress as a pirate. Your point?

                by theatre goon on Fri Sep 13, 2013 at 12:58:13 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  Then you should be against gun control (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                gerrilea

                As both past & present elections prove.

                Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                by FrankRose on Fri Sep 13, 2013 at 01:51:25 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  Stop playing "Purity Police". (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                43north, gerrilea, DavidMS

                You aren't very good at it, and it's a shitty game.

                Your hate-mail will be graded.

                by PavePusher on Fri Sep 13, 2013 at 04:50:41 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  maybe he has a different definition of better (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                43north, gerrilea

                one that includes civil rights.

                “Conservation… is a positive exercise of skill and insight, not merely a negative exercise of abstinence and caution…” Aldo Leopold

                by ban nock on Fri Sep 13, 2013 at 06:30:33 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

            •  re not everyone agrees (5+ / 0-)

              If you want support you must earn it.  Maintain it.  The 'more and better' message has become a demand not a goal.  People are clubbed with it, punished even.  People follow out of respect, not out of obligation.

              •  Personally, I think it's a case-by-case thing. (4+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                FrankRose, Tom Seaview, Noodles, 43north

                To take an extreme and well-known example, I certainly wasn't willing to support Jon Edwards for any elected office, after certain information came out, even if he was a Democrat.

                Would I vote Republican in response?  No, that's the time I would stay home -- hypothetically speaking, of course, my voting for Edwards never came up.

                But, it's also somewhat off-topic, at this point, so I'll drop it there.

                Yes, I often dress as a pirate. Your point?

                by theatre goon on Fri Sep 13, 2013 at 01:19:56 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

        •  What Onerous Gun Laws? (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Glen The Plumber, coquiero, TheFern

          Is it the wisdom of gun control generally or turn out that best accounts for Tuesday’s results in Colorado?  If gun control is so anathema to Colorado voters then how did the gun laws to which this vote was supposedly a reaction ever pass in the first place ?  
          A
           little bit of reflection upon the events leading up to this awkwardly conducted vote tells us the answer.

          •  I'm not sure what you're asking, to be honest. (5+ / 0-)

            How were the gun laws passed?  By the legislators, including those who were so recently recalled.  

            The laws I have most often seen given as a reason why they should have been recalled was the restriction on magazine size and the expanded background checks (not necessarily because people were against expanded checks, in and of themselves, but they were against the way this specific one was written).

            The most common sentiment I have seen given by those supporting the recall was that they felt that they were not being appropriately represented by the legislators in question.

            As you can see from the discussion in this diary, as well as others, exactly what caused the recall to be successful is not agreed upon.

            Yes, I often dress as a pirate. Your point?

            by theatre goon on Fri Sep 13, 2013 at 12:40:17 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Ok (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              FogCityJohn, TheFern

              It seems that turn out is a more credible explanation than going on bombastically about gun control.

              A more interesting question is how many of these dissatisfied voters actually voted for the recalled legislators to begin with.

              •  Democrats turned out (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                theatre goon, notrouble, ER Doc

                And 20%-30% of them voted for the recall.

                Turnout was low. Seeing as how Morse & Giron had plenty of money, this was the 1st two recall elections in the state's history & this election garnered national attention, the problem wasn't that people weren't aware of the election;

                The problem was that banning objects from their constituents didn't seem to inspire them to go vote for Morse & Giron.

                Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                by FrankRose on Fri Sep 13, 2013 at 02:00:12 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

    •  Frankly (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Wordsinthewind, 43north

      You're completely wrong about the guy in Pueblo.  He's a lunatic and not well respected.  You'll undoubtedly be hearing about the unbelievable things he says over the next year in the national papers.  Gomert has nothing on this guy.  Also, Giron is Hispanic as well.

      Finally, Pueblo is a strange bird.  It is solidly Democratic, but, the Democrats there are as fractured as the 1968 Democrats were, and it's been going on for generations.  There are Democrats down there who couldn't care less about the gun control issue, but voted against Giron because it was easier to do it here than to try to take her out in the next primary.  Sorry, but the truth hurts.

  •  Would have been nice to see PPP's poll (6+ / 0-)

    on Pueblo ahead of time. Instead, the focus was onmotivat Morse's district because he was in the most(although clearly not) danger.

    Giron was essentially considered safe - maybe PPP should believe their results next time.

    Look, I tried to be reasonable...

    by campionrules on Fri Sep 13, 2013 at 09:20:31 AM PDT

    •  Wouldn't Have Mattered (0+ / 0-)

      Giron wouldn't have believed it and it was already too late to do anything about it.  These elections were lost months ago, it's just that the dummies in the Democratic Party didn't know it.

  •  Democrats have to do things to deserve it. (18+ / 0-)

    'Not Republican' will get you only so far. Democrats would turn out reliably and consistently if Democratic politicians actually did things for them.

    Until that changes, no amount of pushing and prodding and cajoling, via air game or ground game, is going to work.

    •  Yep...and on the other side... (4+ / 0-)

      ...not Democratic is more than enough to turn their people out. Obamacare is what galvanized them last time...and by Nov 2014, the individual mandate will be in full force and the opposition forces will be very formidable.

      As I said above, we had better find a way to GOTV in elections where that Obama guy isn't on the ballot or we will be doomed...pure and simple.

      Adequate health care should be a LEGAL RIGHT in the U.S without begging or bankruptcy. Until it is, we should not dare call our society civilized.

      by Love Me Slender on Fri Sep 13, 2013 at 09:54:56 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  The CO legislature did things (10+ / 0-)

      Increased funding for higher ed

      increased funding for pre school by 3200 students

      added Medicare funding for the statewide Obamacare

      passed Dream Act kids getting in state tuition at state Universities

      Same Sex Civil Unions giving equal rights to Same Sex couples

      I'd say the legislature did things.

      They also did some things that a lot of people didn't like, such as magazine size restrictions. One bad doesn't outweigh the many good in my opinion. But others see things differently. Now our governor Hickenlooper is targeted with the exact same thing.

      Health care will be a very big help, not many belong to unions here, everyone will benefit from the ACA except young affluent healthy, I'd rather canvas for the ACA than against guns.

      “Conservation… is a positive exercise of skill and insight, not merely a negative exercise of abstinence and caution…” Aldo Leopold

      by ban nock on Fri Sep 13, 2013 at 10:12:11 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Amen (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ekgrulez1, 43north, PsychoSavannah

        For a state as evenly divided as Colorado, this session was certainly the most liberal in the last 100 years.  The stuff they did was amazing and many of us are grateful.  But, in not standing up and making their case of gun laws, they failed to know their constituents and failed to take into account the lies that Republicans have been telling in this state since February when these bills were passed.

      •  That's stuff for institutions. (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        mightymouse, FogCityJohn, ban nock

        I'm talking about doing things for voters. Specifically, giving them jobs and money.

        •  I see what you mean and agree with you (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          claude, brooklynbadboy

          Our unemployment is down overall but not for the demographics that most people live in. We make poverty wages for jobs that middle class people do where you come from. For us the recession has lasted 20 years or more.

          “Conservation… is a positive exercise of skill and insight, not merely a negative exercise of abstinence and caution…” Aldo Leopold

          by ban nock on Fri Sep 13, 2013 at 01:09:19 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Will Democrats give people a reason to vote FOR (6+ / 0-)

    them instead of "Vote for us, them fools is crazy" in 2014?

    Obama: self-described Republican; backed up by right-wing policies

    by The Dead Man on Fri Sep 13, 2013 at 09:26:59 AM PDT

  •  was it raining in those districts on Tuesday? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ban nock, LilithGardener

    "Tax cuts for the 1% create jobs." -- Republicans, HAHAHA - in China

    by MartyM on Fri Sep 13, 2013 at 09:38:06 AM PDT

  •  I'm afraid of the armed Zhole wannabees since (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Glen The Plumber

    the law is on their side.

    nosotros no somos estúpidos

    by a2nite on Fri Sep 13, 2013 at 09:39:05 AM PDT

  •  What percentage of Dems voted for recall? 20% (5+ / 0-)

    of the people who signed one of the recall potions were Dems.

  •  Vote by mail is important for Dem victories (6+ / 0-)

    We have to keep it in place to get good Dem turnout.  Too many Dems work in multiple jobs, odd shifts, that don't allow them to take time off to vote during the day.

    "The international world is wondering what happened to America's great heart and soul." Helen Thomas

    by Betty Pinson on Fri Sep 13, 2013 at 09:57:08 AM PDT

    •  Fuck that. Make a law that employers (0+ / 0-)

      have to let people off to vote no matter how long it takes.  When business loses business because workers are waiting in lines for 8 hours, voting machines will magically appear.

      I'd just as soon get rid of mail in ballots....just too much room for fraud.

      With all of the tech we have, and encryption and whatnot, why can't we vote online?

      Listening to the NRA on school safety is like listening to the tobacco companies on cigarette safety. (h/t nightsweat)

      by PsychoSavannah on Fri Sep 13, 2013 at 07:12:54 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  The GOP turned Bloomberg's money into a liability. (8+ / 0-)

    Maybe Dems could learn how to do that.

    •  This is Bull Shit (0+ / 0-)

      The people who cared about Bloomberg were already the raging idiots anyway.  This message wasn't effective because 95% of Coloradoans don't know who he is or give one damn about it.  We are very used to elections that are financed on both sides by wealthy and out of state interests.  We're a small state and the consultants want to make lots of money.  Not an issue.

      •  It's an issue. (0+ / 0-)
      •  "raging idiots" who voted. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        FrankRose, Kasoru

        Why not publish a message prior to election night:

        "If you don't agree with me, shut the fuck up.
        For god's sake don't breed.  
        Donate to the Democratic Party - because I, your self-acknowledged better, told you so.  
        Now go vote, following the instructions I've provided for you, on this paper."
        No doubt, you'll be successful in growing the party.

        The country was in peril; he was jeopardizing his traditional rights of freedom and independence by daring to exercise them.” ~ Joseph Heller, Catch-22

        by 43north on Fri Sep 13, 2013 at 01:51:04 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  By the time the campaign messages had shifted... (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ban nock, ER Doc, 43north, PsychoSavannah

    ...to areas outside of gun control (reproductive rights, immigration, etc.) it was too late to flip some pro-recall dems, and get enough anti-recall dems outta their homes and to the polls.

    As 2010 showed, our base needs a reason to get excited.  Hating the other guy isn't enough to turn out our base, but it is PLENTY enough for teabaggers and their ilk.  

    Any democratic campaign strategy needs to focus on 1) what we have done to help you, the voter; 2) how the GOP will take that away; and 3) how GOP leaders will tirelessly work to screw you, the voter, on most issues you care about. Any campaign strategy that does not aggressively incorporate those three points will not succeed in motivating our base voters the way we need to.

  •  Not to worry (7+ / 0-)

    The bang bang boys originally went 'hunting' for 5 state reps but could only muster 'tags' for 2. Then they changed the rules because they knew that they couldn't win a fair fight. So in the end, all they did was shoot the messengers; public opinion remains unchanged and the law still stands.... and there is plenty of outrage in the rest of CO about the recalls. The backlash will be huge.

    •  ^^^THIS^^^ (0+ / 0-)

      Let the gun nuts against any sensible regulations try to chill  the majority who want reform with their chicken little bs about how we shouldn't pursue it, because Dems might lose.  Meanwhile, Dems still control the state legislature and governorship, and the statewide election and the issues involved next year are a whole different matter.  

    •  Ummm, "they" didn't change the rules... (5+ / 0-)

          Democrats were and still are in charge of the legislature and Governor's office. There was a legal dispute, and the court ended up deciding that, under the requirements of the Colorado constitution, the mail-in system couldn't be applied fairly under the special circumstances of this election. That means our side lost in court. That's not "they changed the rules." And I shouldn't have to point out that, although mail-in ballots are popular in Colorado and convenient, most states can't use them, and the Republicans had to actually go to the polls, too.

      public opinion remains unchanged
          And the PPP poll indicated that public opinion in Giron's district was accurately reflected at the polls. A lot of it depends on how the questions are asked, which was why PPP was so uncertain about the results of their polling and chose not to release it initially. If you ask about the specific laws individually, they get support in Colorado. If you ask about "gun control" generally, you get a strongly negative response. It's quite possible that if Giron and Morse had emphasized that they supported those particular laws, and only those laws, instead of trying to avoid the issue, they might have done better.

      -7.25, -6.26

      We are men of action; lies do not become us.

      by ER Doc on Fri Sep 13, 2013 at 11:10:46 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Who (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        FogCityJohn, coquiero

        originated the 'legal dispute'? And how is the court's decision not a rule change? Regardless, I think the result of this trumped up election is nothing but a reminder to the rest of us here in CO not to be satisfied with our accomplishments so far.

        •  The lawsuit was brought by the Libertarian Party (3+ / 0-)

          (which I'm sure you already know.) They wanted to get their own candidate on the ballot. And the suit turned on the requirements set up in the Colorado Constitution regarding the timing of candidate petitions in recall elections, which conflicted with the law the Legislature passed mandating the use of mail-in ballots. The new law was a "rule change." Since it conflicted with the Constitution, the court forced a return to the old rules.

          -7.25, -6.26

          We are men of action; lies do not become us.

          by ER Doc on Fri Sep 13, 2013 at 01:24:18 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  I think that the most likely Democrats (4+ / 0-)

    to vote would have been the single issue voters that would have voted for the recall.

    Not enough other Democrats took the time to vote. The single issue in this election motivated the "wrong" Democrats.

    "Drudge: soundslike sludge, islike sewage."
    (-7.25, -6.72)

    by gougef on Fri Sep 13, 2013 at 10:49:29 AM PDT

  •  Practice run for 2014 (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ban nock

    While it was not good to lose these elections, they can be considered practice runs for the 2014 elections as a whole.  In general it may have been a better outcome to experience failure early, so that it can be learned from.  I always say that we learn more from mistakes and failures than we learn from successes, and a much larger challenge faces us in 2014.  Complacency is a dangerous attitude when facing a determined opponent.  Application of the lessons learned for the larger elections next year are critical.  People have to learn that all politics are local, and local elections must be attended or their lives will be affected where they live.  There is no election too small to be ignored.

  •  and their talk radio advantage is free (4+ / 0-)

    and great for suppressing vote- months of unanswered swiftboating of morse and giron, and voter suppression - frightening latino voters away works as well as the actual suppression laws

    This is a list of 76 universities for Rush Limbaugh that endorse global warming denial, racism, sexism, and GOP lies by broadcasting sports on over 170 Limbaugh radio stations.

    by certainot on Fri Sep 13, 2013 at 10:52:11 AM PDT

  •  Vote by Mail was the difference (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Glen The Plumber, terjeanderson

    All the crowing from the NRA aside, the only reason this vote turned out the way it did was the court blocked Vote by Mail. Before the NRA and their supporters get too comfortable, they wont get to play that card during the next regularly scheduled election. I have high hopes for a reversal.

  •  If You Choose Not To Vote (0+ / 0-)

    Then don't complain when the other side shoves it up your arse.

    The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.

    by The Lone Apple on Fri Sep 13, 2013 at 10:59:03 AM PDT

  •  Could be a larger question (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    FrankRose, NancyK

    Of Democrat discontent with business as usual. Why fight against gun rights issue when all our rights (latest being privacy) are being violated by the ruling party in the White House?
    I see more alliances with "rights" groups than alliances for rollbacks of rights.

    Plus the Democrats are hemorrhaging credibility with the base in this GWOT, I Have A Drone, ATTACK! Syria, NSA, the Coup that wasn't a Coup in Egypt. They appear as bad as the GOP (if not worse) and the base has had enough of turning out with purple fingers.

    NO CE/CW. NO UNION BUSTING

    by Aeolos on Fri Sep 13, 2013 at 11:07:16 AM PDT

  •  Lots of people hate voting , not only in politics (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mightymouse

    ( at my condo association too). They think it is pointless.
    When I canvas I basically beg people to vote. They do like my begging them but it's rather short lived.
    Maybe they should just pay every voter $5 who shows up at the polls. That would cost about $1 billion bucks each primary and federal election. Probably unconstitutional.

  •  The shorter version (0+ / 0-)

    People get the government they deserve. Not bothering to vote at all because it's inconvenient or difficult is almost as bad as some poor bastard actually going out and voting against his own interests because he can't emotionally separate his sense of his dick from his gun.
    Republicans are experts at picking their voters rather than the voters picking them. Focusing on emotional niche issues like gun control is a perfect example. Overall support for things like banning high capacity magazines and requiring background checks is very popular, but overall the support is a mile wide and an inch deep. You take the opportunity to pick off democrats by staging a short notice, off year election which hinges on an issue where a  segment of the population who holds a concern which is an inch wide and a mile deep who they can sucker to vote in droves.

    Just another day in Oceania.

    by drshatterhand on Fri Sep 13, 2013 at 11:08:58 AM PDT

  •  You're Overblowing the Turnout (5+ / 0-)

    The reality is that these races were blown by the Democrats because they listened to outsiders like you who know nothing about Colorado.  The papers here are reporting more like $3.5 spent in both races.  Remember, these districts have a population of about 177,000 each and both have less than 100,000 registered voters.  The amount of money spent here is more than is usually spent on a statewide race and both these districts were in the relatively small Colorado Springs media market (less that 750,000 people).

    The Democratic Party and its strategists told these candidates to downplay the gun issue in their campaign, and they're still telling all of their statewide candidates the same thing.  In fact they're even telling some candidates to go to candidate forums and listen on the gun issues but not respond.  Look folks maybe in other states this might work, but folks aren't easy to fool here.  They wanted to hear what laws were really passed, what they really did and they wanted to hear candidates out and proud of passing these bills, which PPP showed were popular even with those who did vote in the Districts which passed the recall.  Doesn't that tell you something?  The recall was about guns.  The specific features about the legislation passed were popular in the districts and still the Dems are recalled?  Major disconnect.  Dems don't have to hide from their legislation.  It's popular.  Only Republicans have to hide from their specific proposals.  Democrats should be proud and telling people about what they passed here in Colorado this year.  Instead they go mute and set back gun safety legislation 20 years at least.

    Giron was way over confident.  What would you do when the organizers of the recall have a ridiculouosly high percentage of valid signatures on their petition - something like 80%?  Would you take the election lightly and beam confidence?  Or, would you know that you're up against some very sophisticated people (on the par with the Obama campaign at least) and really get down to business.

    If you had $70 per vote cast, how easy would it be for you to get out the vote in a very limited geographic area?  Well for me, it would have been easy.

    The mail ballot thing was a drag.  But, the Democratic legislature mucked this up this year.  The reality there was plenty of early voting.  Colorado has had mail ballots for a while now, but early voting was used for the first time.

    Again, with 3.5 million, can't you message.  Here's what we did, we're proud of it, the Republicans lie about XYZ.  Even their own Attorney General disagrees with what they are saying.  Can't you inoculate your self from the lies that you have known for six months are coming?  We're going to confiscate your guns - lies, and on and on and on.  How about an early piece explaining with humbleness, but a certain amount of pride here in Colorado that innocent school children and movie goers have been shot dead by people who shouldn't have guns and we want to try these common sense gun regulations to see if they will help.  And for heaven's sake, what about a simple piece that says "Republicans want Willie Horton to be able to buy a gun legally the day he gets out of prison."  That's literally is what the Republicans want.  The messaging is so simple.  Yet, Democratic candidates weren't talking about the elephant in the room and still aren't.  People, in Colorado at least don't like it one bit when you pass a bill and then refuse to defend it.  They think people like that are gutless and even worse, politicians.  They think it even of a former police chief.

    The real problem here is that, as usual, Democrats have no idea how to talk to the voters of Colorado on a controversial subject and sound like the moderates that Democrats in Colorado mostly are.

    And when are Democrats going to figure out that pulling a Carter and saying the American Public is morose, or depressed, or not interested is a really terrible campaign tactic, even when you're quoting Robert Kennedy.  Hell, the Kennedy's weren't popular in this state ever and aren't now.

    Frankly, this is a big deal for the Democratic majorities next year.  And if the Democrats in this state continue to tell their candidates to stand mute on the gun issue, well, then we will be back on the red side next year.

    So, in my view, this was an election that was blown by the ridiculous waste of money by the campaigns and the outside groups, a mis-messaged campaign and a campaign where Democrats were running as if it was 1980 and you had to run away from gun issues.  The campaigns were a complete waste of time, effort and money and those involved should be run out of the state on a rail.  I know that's what we used to do with these kind of idiots when I was a big wheel in the Republican Party, before I left it.

    Please KOS, don't try to make this disaster seem like it is easy to explain.  It was a disaster and it wasn't all turnout.  It was a mess and Democrats had better learn how to deal with it instead or relying on polls saying what they're doing is popular.  The Republicans threw a lot of bombs here and the Democrats didn't.  As usual, when that happens, the Democrats got their butts kicked.

    One more thing, close only counts in hand grenades and horseshoes.  And it sure as hell doesn't count in politics which is nothing if not a win/lose deal only.  Close is for losers.

    •  I have to agree at $70 a voter it would have been (0+ / 0-)

      quite easy to run a campaign.

      I'll be your post man. GOP takes away your right to vote, I give it back.

      Call blah-blah for postal voting.

      Show up, pick em up, snacks for the kids, and hi oh silver to the polls.

      give the NRA the Royal Flush join Stop The NRA

      by 88kathy on Fri Sep 13, 2013 at 11:31:08 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I have a tag question, kos. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ER Doc

    Election related tags are all over the map. I have noticed that you use a combination of simple tags rather than tag salad surprise.

    2013, Angela Giron, Colorado, Elections, Gun Safety, Guns, John Morse, NRA, Recalls
    Is this the new approved method?
  •  Have you seen this editorial? (6+ / 0-)

    Denver Post editorial:

    Voter suppression in Angela Giron recall? Hardly
        They are referring to Angela Giron's Election Day interview with Brooke Baldwin on CNN.
    "The people that are in support of very common-sense gun legislation weren't able to get to the polls," Giron alleged.

    People who supported her "weren't able" to get to the polls? Nonsense. They were no less able to get to the polls than folks on the other side. If a disproportionate number of her supporters failed to vote, it's because they chose not to.

    Yes, a court ruling last month that the state's new election law conflicted with a constitutional provision prevented the use of mail ballots. And political observers agreed the ruling might benefit the GOP. But the litigation itself was spearheaded by an Aspen voting activist and the Libertarian Party, and had nothing to do with an attempt at "voter suppression."

    They go on to say that they opposed the recall, "but we also oppose lurid attempts to portray Colorado's recall elections as somehow illegitimate."

    -7.25, -6.26

    We are men of action; lies do not become us.

    by ER Doc on Fri Sep 13, 2013 at 11:21:57 AM PDT

    •  "Nothing to do with 'voter suppression'"? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Glen The Plumber

      Get real.  There's only one reason to make voting harder, and that's because you don't want people to vote.  Every impediment you erect to ballot access is necessarily about suppressing the vote.  

      Oh, and how terribly surprising the challenge was filed by the Libertarian Party.  They've been a front for the right wing since day one.

      "Ça c'est une chanson que j'aurais vraiment aimé ne pas avoir écrite." -- Barbara

      by FogCityJohn on Fri Sep 13, 2013 at 12:52:07 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  How hard is it to get a few miles to vote? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Wordsinthewind

        Seriously, this seems like a really stupid excuse.  People drive half-way across the entire state to see relatives, go to a rodeo, hunt, ski, drive miles to work, but they can't go down the street to a polling station?

        This excuse is not valid.

        Your hate-mail will be graded.

        by PavePusher on Fri Sep 13, 2013 at 05:02:33 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Depends on your circumstances (0+ / 0-)

          For some people, going a few miles is a challenge, either because they're elderly, or disabled, or too poor to afford transportation. And there are many people whose work schedules make it difficult to vote on a weekday, so mail ballots make it possible for them to participate.

          These are some of the reasons the Democratic Party favors things like mail ballots. We're seeking to increase voter participation, not curtail it. When more people vote, Democrats do better.  These recalls succeeded in part because they were conducted in nearly perfect Republican conditions -- very low turnout with a very popular method of ballot access was unavailable.

          "Ça c'est une chanson que j'aurais vraiment aimé ne pas avoir écrite." -- Barbara

          by FogCityJohn on Sun Sep 15, 2013 at 05:39:55 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  I wish we could drop the guns and figure out why (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Glen The Plumber

    1) Core Democratic groups (Latinos, African Americans, youth voters, single women) have the worst voter performance, and

    I think it is the obstacles and the lack of recognition for voting.

    What if we would have done a t-shirt campaign in Colorado?

    Pre-Election t-shirt.

    I AM GOING TO VOTE
    Post-Election t-shirt

    I VOTED
    Maybe in all languages. Maybe on the sweet cheeks of the saggy pants. Maybe the cutest sexiest t-shirt you ever did see.

    Maybe GOTV posters written by graffiti artists.

    Could Colorado be the last tired grimy TV campaign against dirty vote suppression tactics? It could be, if we make it the last.

  •  Maddow had an awesome segment on Wednesday (5+ / 0-)

    Facts: Half of all state officials who have been recalled in the history of the United States have been up for recall in the last 2 years (here's a list). This is an alarming growth rate. Republicans might make this the norm in the future because Repubs do well in low turnout recall elections while Dems tend to do better in High turnout general elections.


    i just baptized andrew breitbart into the church of islam, planned parenthood, the girl scouts and three teachers unions. - @blainecapatch

    by bobinson on Fri Sep 13, 2013 at 11:29:38 AM PDT

  •  Mail Ballots (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    theatre goon, FrankRose

    The Morse recall was decided by a thin margin, and turnout was very low.  A few thousand more voters with even a slightly more lean towards Morse would have defeated the recall effort.

    I don't think the same applies in SD-3, though.  Turnout in 2010 was 41,648 and turnout in the recall was 34,556--a dropoff of only 7,029 voters.  Giron lost by 4,254 votes.  Assuming (optimistically), that voters who would have voted if mail ballots had been availablel would have broken 60/40 for Giron, 21,270 additional voters would have had to cast a ballot to overcome the margin of defeat.

    Thus, the "we got screwed because of no mail ballots" hypothesis requires one to believe that if mail ballots were available, turnout would have been 60% higher that it was, and 34% higher than in the last general election.  That is not plausible.

    "Well, I'm sure I'd feel much worse if I weren't under such heavy sedation..."--David St. Hubbins

    by Old Left Good Left on Fri Sep 13, 2013 at 11:32:58 AM PDT

    •  This diary asks how we are going to increase (3+ / 0-)

      turn out.

      Latinos,

      African Americans,

      youth voters,

      single women

      give the NRA the Royal Flush join Stop The NRA

      by 88kathy on Fri Sep 13, 2013 at 11:44:00 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  This diary explicitly (4+ / 0-)

        sets forth a theory that Giron and Morse lost because of low turnout of Democratic voters, and that low turnout of Democratic voters is caused by a greater propensity of Democratic voters to be less motivated to vote and Republican voter suppression efforts.

        My point is that theory is not supported by the facts with respect to SD-3.

        "Well, I'm sure I'd feel much worse if I weren't under such heavy sedation..."--David St. Hubbins

        by Old Left Good Left on Fri Sep 13, 2013 at 12:37:10 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  As I explained in my comments above, while (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          coquiero

          it did happen. It's just not the landslide the unlimited gun crew think it is.

          What is SD-3?

          They punished the kids who wrote the law but did not repeal the law. Here  So what we see is a typical NRA tactic. Fear. Punish. Crow. Nothing but smoke.

          Our problem is GOTV not unlimited guns forever.

          give the NRA the Royal Flush join Stop The NRA

          by 88kathy on Fri Sep 13, 2013 at 12:47:12 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  You didn't read the diary then. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      coquiero, Glen The Plumber

      Here's what Markos actually said:

      Given the razor-thin margin of victory, there's no doubt in my mind that we win Morse's SD-11 if we had vote-by-mail, used by over 50 percent of the district in 2012, and with a nearly 10-point Democratic advantage.
      Markos did not claim that mail-in ballots would have swung the election to Giron.  So if you're going to dispute his claims, please limit yourself to claims he's actually made.

      "Ça c'est une chanson que j'aurais vraiment aimé ne pas avoir écrite." -- Barbara

      by FogCityJohn on Fri Sep 13, 2013 at 01:01:37 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Uh, no. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        theatre goon, FrankRose

        There are several paragraphs above the single sentence you quote that set forth the theory that I, quite correctly, ascribe to Markos.

        But thanks for the condescension.

        "Well, I'm sure I'd feel much worse if I weren't under such heavy sedation..."--David St. Hubbins

        by Old Left Good Left on Fri Sep 13, 2013 at 01:19:29 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Funny that you don't identify them. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          coquiero, Glen The Plumber

          And funny that the language I quoted to you shows that Markos never claimed that mail-in ballots would have saved Giron's seat.  He makes that claim only with respect to Morse.

          So I frankly don't know what you're talking about.

          "Ça c'est une chanson que j'aurais vraiment aimé ne pas avoir écrite." -- Barbara

          by FogCityJohn on Fri Sep 13, 2013 at 01:28:35 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Sorry (0+ / 0-)

            I didn't know that you couldn't interpret "there are several paragraphs above the single sentence you quote" to mean, well, the paragraphs above the single sentence you quoted.

            So, for the record, or for those readers who are a bit stupid, I meant "the" paragraphs.

            Thank you and good day.

            "Well, I'm sure I'd feel much worse if I weren't under such heavy sedation..."--David St. Hubbins

            by Old Left Good Left on Fri Sep 13, 2013 at 03:37:23 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Which have nothing to do with my point. (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              coquiero, Glen The Plumber

              And the relevance of which you have still failed to explain.  

              So now tell me, who's being stupid?

              "Ça c'est une chanson que j'aurais vraiment aimé ne pas avoir écrite." -- Barbara

              by FogCityJohn on Fri Sep 13, 2013 at 04:06:38 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Well (0+ / 0-)

                Half the diary is devoted to explaining, with quotes and a reference to a prior diary, the mail ballot/low turnout theory.  And yes, he explicitly says that it applies to Morse, but he doesn't say it doesn't apply to Giron.

                So, excuse me if I haven't addressed your point, because you have not actually made any point that I could address, other than to say that you have no fucking idea what you're posting about.

                "Well, I'm sure I'd feel much worse if I weren't under such heavy sedation..."--David St. Hubbins

                by Old Left Good Left on Fri Sep 13, 2013 at 05:01:10 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Oh! Now I get it! (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Glen The Plumber

                  Since Markos didn't say (in this diary) that his mail-in ballot theory didn't apply to Giron, you just assumed that he thinks it did, and wrote a comment to refute something he hadn't actually said.

                  Okay, well now all that makes perfect sense.

                  "Ça c'est une chanson que j'aurais vraiment aimé ne pas avoir écrite." -- Barbara

                  by FogCityJohn on Fri Sep 13, 2013 at 08:54:17 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Well, yes (0+ / 0-)

                    The diary is, after all, about "Colorado recalls."

                    Now, not to belabor the point, but "recalls" is plural.  As you may know, "plural" means more than one.  I guess it's possible Markos was referring to some other Colorado recall than that of Morse, but I can't really think of one other than in SD-3.

                    Please, enlighten me.  What other recall could the diary be about?

                    Or you could STFU.

                    "Well, I'm sure I'd feel much worse if I weren't under such heavy sedation..."--David St. Hubbins

                    by Old Left Good Left on Fri Sep 13, 2013 at 09:54:22 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

  •  Koch involvement... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Glen The Plumber, Mgleaf

    From Huffington Post

    The NRA spent heavily on the recall effort, reporting at least $360,000 and funneling unspecified dollars through its nonprofit arm. The billionaire conservative Koch brothers also entered the fray, using their advocacy group Americans For Prosperity to target Morse and Giron. Due to the organization's nonprofit status, AFP also did not have to report its spending to the Federal Elections Commission.

    "Patients are not consumers" - Paul Krugman

    by assyrian64 on Fri Sep 13, 2013 at 11:48:20 AM PDT

  •  Is the Gov. In danger of losing his election? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    theatre goon
  •  Colorado was one of those states where we sent (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Glen The Plumber, coquiero, ER Doc

    a huge amount of volunteers from Texas in 2008. And it was basically to knock on doors and get out the vote.  That must be the lesson learned here - GOTV no matter what.

  •  So what would make "our people" like to vote? (0+ / 0-)

    Pot?

    "You can't run a country by a book of religion. Dumb all over, a little ugly on the side." Frank Zappa

    by Uosdwis on Fri Sep 13, 2013 at 01:05:11 PM PDT

    •  good work by our legislators, see Brooklyn Bad Boy (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ER Doc

      's comment upthread. Jobs that pay money. Forget all the weird issues.

      “Conservation… is a positive exercise of skill and insight, not merely a negative exercise of abstinence and caution…” Aldo Leopold

      by ban nock on Fri Sep 13, 2013 at 01:25:00 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Given that the gun manufacturer's single goal is (0+ / 0-)

    to sell as many guns as possible, no matter how many criminals get their hands on them, we can't afford to not fight on this issue.  We certainly need to be a lot smarter about how we fight, though.

    I've got one concern on this, and it's to keep guns out of the hands of criminals and the dangerously mentally ill.  I really don't understand why anyone (except for those who make money from selling guns) has a problem with that.

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