Skip to main content

Speaker of the House John Boehner wipes his eye during the ceremony unveiling a statue of former U.S. President Gerald Ford in the Rotunda of the U.S. Capitol in Washington May 3, 2011. REUTERS/Joshua Roberts
Rock of Gibraltar holds firm
National Review reporter Robert Costa takes a deep (but anonymously sourced) dive into the mind of House Speaker John Boehner and his takeaway is that:
Based on my latest conversations with insiders, their plan isn’t to eventually whip Republicans toward a clean CR and back down after a few days of messaging the shutdown, as some have believed; it’s to keep fighting, and, in the process, preserve the House GOP’s fragile unity — and maybe, if they’re lucky, win a concession from Senate majority leader Harry Reid.
According to Costa, there are definitely enough votes within the Republican conference to to pass a bipartisan funding bill that would end the shutdown, but Boehner won't allow that to happen. Boehner's motive? First and foremost, saving his own behind, says Costa:
Per his allies, his fear is, if he brings up a clean CR, he’d be seen as conceding to Reid, who’s seen as the villain of villains within the House GOP. Thirty to forty conservatives would likely revolt against such a maneuver, and so would their backers in the conservative movement. In the press, he’d likely be cheered for a profile in courage; within the House, the decision would be seen by his critics on the right as a betrayal of the highest order.
According to Costa, Boehner also wants Harry Reid and Senate Democrats to cave on something:
Pushing back against Reid and forcing him to cut a deal is another leadership objective. Behind the scenes, they’re irritated by his daily killing of anything the House passes and are eager to make sure he shares some of the political pain from the shutdown. There’s no rush to give him what he wants. Besides, many House Republicans believe Senate Democrats are only hanging with Reid on every vote because he has assured them the House GOP will break, and they think if they can incrementally put pressure on Reid’s conference, his grip could be weakened.
Keep in mind that this is just one view on what Boehner is up to. It could be completely accurate, or it might be an effort by Boehnerland to bluff through the media. Whatever the case, there's one thing that is absolutely clear: Ending the government shutdown only requires one thing—for Congress to pass the spending bills that will keep the government open. And that won't happen until John Boehner lets the House pass legislation without poison pills.

Join Daily Kos and the DCCC to tell John Boehner: End this shutdown now.

EMAIL TO A FRIEND X
Your Email has been sent.
You must add at least one tag to this diary before publishing it.

Add keywords that describe this diary. Separate multiple keywords with commas.
Tagging tips - Search For Tags - Browse For Tags

?

More Tagging tips:

A tag is a way to search for this diary. If someone is searching for "Barack Obama," is this a diary they'd be trying to find?

Use a person's full name, without any title. Senator Obama may become President Obama, and Michelle Obama might run for office.

If your diary covers an election or elected official, use election tags, which are generally the state abbreviation followed by the office. CA-01 is the first district House seat. CA-Sen covers both senate races. NY-GOV covers the New York governor's race.

Tags do not compound: that is, "education reform" is a completely different tag from "education". A tag like "reform" alone is probably not meaningful.

Consider if one or more of these tags fits your diary: Civil Rights, Community, Congress, Culture, Economy, Education, Elections, Energy, Environment, Health Care, International, Labor, Law, Media, Meta, National Security, Science, Transportation, or White House. If your diary is specific to a state, consider adding the state (California, Texas, etc). Keep in mind, though, that there are many wonderful and important diaries that don't fit in any of these tags. Don't worry if yours doesn't.

You can add a private note to this diary when hotlisting it:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from your hotlist?
Are you sure you want to remove your recommendation? You can only recommend a diary once, so you will not be able to re-recommend it afterwards.
Rescue this diary, and add a note:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from Rescue?
Choose where to republish this diary. The diary will be added to the queue for that group. Publish it from the queue to make it appear.

You must be a member of a group to use this feature.

Add a quick update to your diary without changing the diary itself:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary?
(The diary will be removed from the site and returned to your drafts for further editing.)
(The diary will be removed.)
Are you sure you want to save these changes to the published diary?

Comment Preferences

  •  He's scum, Jed! (24+ / 0-)

    Reid should send him a case of Merlot as a bribe. He'd understand that.

    Float like a manhole cover, sting like a sash weight! Clean Coal Is A Clinker!

    by JeffW on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 08:03:29 AM PDT

  •  Has anyone checked to make sure his grandchildren (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    hulibow, sethtriggs

    Are alright?  What OTHER sane reason could he have for  sticking to this idiocy?

    •  It's a dreadful reason but there is one (19+ / 0-)

      That this shutdown is not an oops but the operational objective of the House GOP - ALL of them.

      We may be seeing the next stage in Republicans' destabilization campaign against what little social welfare state we have in this country.

      Their next stop is falling off the debt cliff into sovereign default, if that's the scenario.

      If that happens we stop being a country AND a superpower on the same day.

      I think that scenario suits way too many Tea Wees just fine. They don't like America succeeding without their permission, on behalf of inappropriate people who aren't just like themselves.

      •  And a weaker government (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        bryduck

        will serve corporate interests all the better.

        If public opinion is mushy about assigning blame, dems likely will be forced to capitulate.  

        "When I was an alien, cultures weren't opinions" ~ Kurt Cobain, Territorial Pissings

        by Subterranean on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 08:22:28 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  In talking with a number of conservative (9+ / 0-)

        acquaintances I have, they think the republicans are cornered animals now and allowed to use the default nuke.  They honestly and truly believe that the dems have not given anything ever in negotiations.

        It is just amazing to see.....despite all of the actual information out there, they do not see.  They think the repubs are right and honorable here.

        I put up the story about Boehner fighting for the congressional exemption from ACA on FB yesterday and none of them even knew about it.  It's just fucking maddening to try to have a conversation with people who ignore facts.  Just maddening.

        Listening to the NRA on school safety is like listening to the tobacco companies on cigarette safety. (h/t nightsweat)

        by PsychoSavannah on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 08:23:38 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I keep telling this anecdote (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Jerry056, Siri, OrangeMike, PsychoSavannah

          In 2011 I had colleagues in a business that lives or dies by the availability of good credit quality government paper openly PRAYING for default.

          I asked them - where do you plan on working next week if that happens? What do you think is going to happen to our customers when WE go under, too?

          Their answer - I'll have a better job: Taking my country back. Most of our customers will be right there with us, too.

        •  It's a WAR for them. We are their worst enemies (5+ / 0-)

          The radio tells them this. Their elected officials that they keep voting for tell them this. the TV chimes in too.

          The only counter examples they ever hear are, well. uh, both sides are bad...

          They mean us utter ruin. They do not like us breathing their country's oxygen. They want us gone.

          Well eff that. I was born here. Come and get me and a few hundred million of my close friends if you want a piece.

        •  Game Theory (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          xenothaulus, bryduck, HCKAD
          They honestly and truly believe that the dems have not given anything ever in negotiations.
          How do you negotiate with someone over the heath of a patient when their goal is to starve them, their threat is to kill them, and their tactic is to unplug them from life support until you compromise on how to starve them?

          We're dealing with a party that for more than 30 years has been dedicated to eliminating any parts of government that actually helps average people, and now the current shutdown achieves the closings of all the federal agencies they've wanted closed but could never do legislatively. The shutdown only advances their cause, and is an end to their desires, not a negotiating step.

          Game theory suggests this doesn't end well.

          The polls don't tell us how a candidate is doing, the polls tell us how the media is doing.

          by Thumb on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 08:40:54 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  We have nothing they want but our extinction (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            bryduck, Thumb

            from being a part of the government of this country, perhaps of its society, and perhaps in the sense of our existence though I think snuffing out 200+ million people who don't agree with them will be a bit of a heavy lift for them.

      •  The lunatic wing is all for this (6+ / 0-)

        They think it's some kind of exercise in getting people used to less government. Every exchange I've seen with them that tries to impress the severity of consequences for staying this suicidal course is met with choruses of "let it burn".

        They seem hell bent on destruction. What I don't get is how the leadership is willing to take it to such a degree. I can see their need to placate but at a certain point we really are talking about major damage to the economy. Why aren't the financial heavy hitters putting pressure on them to put the rabid wing down?

        If anything proves they absolutely cannot be allowed to be in the majority it's this. They will side with their crazy wing unto the destruction of the economy. They're all teabaggers now.

        "Compassion is the radicalism of our time." ~ Tenzin Gyatso, 14th Dalai Lama -7.88, -6.21

        by Siri on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 08:35:30 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Can't The Democrats Put Up A Clean CR (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    FiredUpInCA, PsychoSavannah, Siri

    if republicans try to pass bills in regular order?  I thought I saw something on this yesterday.  

    "Don't Let Them Catch You With Your Eyes Closed"

    by rssrai on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 08:03:43 AM PDT

    •  Mixed messages on return to regular order (6+ / 0-)

      I'm guessing for this very reason the House won't do any such thing.

      Also, this way they can keep whining that House Dems are 'blocking their efforts to reach out in good faith negotiations', and stuff.

      Funny how it only takes 60 votes in Senate / two thirds in House to have democracy work... when it suits Republicans.

    •  I saw that too (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      PsychoSavannah, Siri

      It would be an Amendment in the Nature of a Substitute, which strikes the ENTIRE bill and replaces it with the amended text (which would be the verbatim text of teh Senate CR)

      However, by rule this would be open to 2nd Degree amendments which could then amend the amended text.

      What Im not clear of (I typically only follow the Senate so I'm a little rusty on House rules) is whether an amendment in the nature of a substitute can be submitted in general session without first going through the rules committee.

      Красота спасет мир --F. Dostoevsky

      by Wisper on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 08:18:38 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  what about a discharge petition? (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      annominous, Siri

      wouldn't that bring up a house vote in spite of the Republican leadership?

      Nebraska farmers are their own worst enemy.

      by jeturek on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 08:26:34 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  it wouldn't pass (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      annominous

      the non-Tea Party R's will only pass the clean CR if Boehner gives them the okay.

      If the Democrats use some parliamentary trick to get the CR to the floor, Boehner will not give his blessing and it will fail.

      The votes are there for it to pass which means they could get an up-or-down vote on the clean CR with a discharge petition IF the "moderate" Republicans were willing to buck Boehner.  Which they clearly are not.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/...

      •  the moderate Rs would have to sign the petition (0+ / 0-)

        There are a number of moderate Rs representing in-play districts. Those are likely the only Rs who would sign a discharge petition. There are probably enough of them to pull this off, but they are going to have to feel the heat from their constituents first.

        •  this scenario has Boehner boxed in (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          annominous

          if he offers a clean CR then the majority "moderate" Republicans will get primaried from the right.  they fear that and Boehner fears the loss of his speakership.

          a shame that fear of losing the SOH position would shut down the government.  shallow.

          I'm a blue drop in a red bucket.

          by blue drop on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 12:21:48 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  That part where Dems should concede to Al Teada (12+ / 0-)

    Not. Going. To. Happen.

  •  The shortened version of the Boehner plan (11+ / 0-)

    1. Paint yourself into a corner and destroy American economy
    2. Demand that the president step in and save you from your own stupidity and cowardice.

    Democratic response (a large middle finger).
    My response (thank you Democratic House members, Harry Reid and President Obama).

    It's the Central Limit Theorem, Stupid!

    by smartdemmg on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 08:06:26 AM PDT

  •  His hands are tied. (6+ / 0-)

    The restrictions he's working under don't allow him any flexibility. I'm not trying to make excuses here, but I've seen petitions floated for Democratic support of his leadership position if he'd introduce a clean CR. Is that the kind of obligation we want? Some eighty Tea Party Republicans have him by the shorthairs and it's unclear to me that he won't soon be out at the bidding of Ted Cruz, regardless.

    Democrats have to wait for this to play out before we'll know who and what to oppose.

    The victorious strategist only seeks battle after the victory has been won, whereas he who is destined to defeat first fights and afterwards looks for victory.

    by Pacifist on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 08:07:11 AM PDT

    •  The country is not sympathetic....45 repeal votes? (0+ / 0-)

      The House has been a wreck all the time he's been there.

    •  His hand are only tied by himself. (8+ / 0-)

      Boner has the sole power to decide to put up a clean CR, or not.  That he has decided to let a bunch of Teahadists stop him or lose his speakership is on him.  His job is more important to him that his country or the government he vowed to serve.

      •  So you'd prefer Cantor. . . (0+ / 0-)

        There's no question that he has to tow the line or lose to Cantor.

        My point is that:

        1. We don't (yet?) have the juice to go against the Republicans in the House and win.

        2. He's under pressure to go against his side's radicals by the moderates both in the House and in the Senate but if he wants to lose to Cantor now, all he has to do is declare his support for the Democrats.

        An apt analogy is the Spartan siege of Athens. We need to wait until someone comes out of the city bearing an olive branch. If it's the radicals, we should refuse to deal until the revolt gives us a desirable result.

        The victorious strategist only seeks battle after the victory has been won, whereas he who is destined to defeat first fights and afterwards looks for victory.

        by Pacifist on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 08:29:15 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Btw, a nitpick: (0+ / 0-)

          It's "toe" the line . . .
          (As in, keeping your foot as close to that edge as possible.)

          "Lone catch of the moon, the roots of the sigh of an idea there will be the outcome may be why?"--from a spam diary entitled "The Vast World."

          by bryduck on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 10:07:02 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  It works either way. (0+ / 0-)

            Towing the boat along the canal. . .

            The victorious strategist only seeks battle after the victory has been won, whereas he who is destined to defeat first fights and afterwards looks for victory.

            by Pacifist on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 10:11:03 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Not the origin of the phrase, however. n/t (0+ / 0-)

              "Lone catch of the moon, the roots of the sigh of an idea there will be the outcome may be why?"--from a spam diary entitled "The Vast World."

              by bryduck on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 10:12:07 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Thanks! (0+ / 0-)

                I'm pleased to be interacting with someone who's willing to subject themselves to adhering to that level of accuracy. Accordingly, I'll be looking at your posts more carefully.

                The victorious strategist only seeks battle after the victory has been won, whereas he who is destined to defeat first fights and afterwards looks for victory.

                by Pacifist on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 11:09:59 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

  •  this is treason (5+ / 0-)

    the law is passed and approved by supreme court.
    the republicans are saying that our American system does not work for their niche interests, and choose to bring down our government rather than obey the law.

    •  Isn't there something in the congressional oath (0+ / 0-)

      About upholding the laws of the land?

      •  You're assuming too much (0+ / 0-)

        Any concern about upholding the laws of the land assume their goals haven't been the destruction of our government all along.

        The polls don't tell us how a candidate is doing, the polls tell us how the media is doing.

        by Thumb on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 08:51:54 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Oddly no... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        hamm

        "I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter: So help me God."

        One could argue that the ACA has been deemed Constitutional via the SCOTUS and that they are hence bound to support it. Then again, we're talking about the freaking Teahadists who only support the 1st Amendment (when it suits them) and a loose interpretation of the 2nd Amendment (willfully excluding the "well organized militia" bit). I doubt they've ever gotten around to the rest of the document, much less the spirit of its intentions.

        •  I think the line about (0+ / 0-)

          "true faith and allegiance" covers it, in addition to "well and faithfully discharge the duties of this office" . . .

          "Lone catch of the moon, the roots of the sigh of an idea there will be the outcome may be why?"--from a spam diary entitled "The Vast World."

          by bryduck on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 10:08:06 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I think so too bryduck, but to the Tea Party (0+ / 0-)

            the concept of "faith" is open to all kinds of interpretation. Case in point, their faith in the Bible confirms to them that it's okay to further enrich the wealthy while gleefully holding a boot on the necks of the neediest in our Country, particularly when you consider that it is their Party's policies that put a lot of those needy people in that position.

            •  Friedrich Nietzche: (0+ / 0-)

                    
              “A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything.”

            •  Right, but you quoted (0+ / 0-)

              their oath of office to demonstrate that what they were doing was treasonous. What they believe to be "right" is irrelevant to that point.

              "Lone catch of the moon, the roots of the sigh of an idea there will be the outcome may be why?"--from a spam diary entitled "The Vast World."

              by bryduck on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 11:03:57 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Actually my posting of their oath was intended (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                bryduck

                to illustrate that what they are doing is not treasonous. My interpretation falls in line with yours in that I feel the oath suggests that they should support our laws. However, the oath is vague regarding that aspect. They are expected to faithfully support the Constitution, which as I posted the Tea Party has its own interpretation as to what that entails. As far as faithfully executing their duties, their are no official duties outlined. From the Congressional Research Service's document that was prepared for instructing members of Congress:

                "The duties carried out by a Member of Congress are understood to include representation, legislation, and constituent service and education, as well as political and electoral activities. The expectations and duties of a Member of Congress are extensive, encompassing several roles that could be full-time jobs by themselves. Despite the acceptance of these roles and other activities as facets of the Member’s job, there is no formal set of requirements or official explanation of what roles might be played as Members carry out the duties of their offices. In the absence of formal authorities, many of the responsibilities that Members of Congress have assumed over the years have evolved from the expectations of Members and their constituents."

                Basically their "duties" consist of producing legislation and fulfilling the expectations of their constituents. Nothing whatsoever about upholding our laws, particularly in their eyes, if their constituents want those laws overturned. Maybe it's time for a rewrite on their oath of office.

                •  I guess our difference is that (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  hamm

                  I think there is a basic understanding of what "faithfully" means in this context, and that they are not acting according to that specific "faith." That the results of their bad faith acting puts the nation in mortal peril--seriously--seemingly proves my point for me, but I'm not wedded to the idea.

                  "Lone catch of the moon, the roots of the sigh of an idea there will be the outcome may be why?"--from a spam diary entitled "The Vast World."

                  by bryduck on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 12:05:41 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

  •  Ridiculous....Put a clean CR on the floor and see (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Jerry056, beemerr90s

    what-is-what.......Boehner is a 99 lb weakling.

  •  Why should Reid have to share the blame? (21+ / 0-)
    Pushing back against Reid and forcing him to cut a deal is another leadership objective. Behind the scenes, they’re irritated by his daily killing of anything the House passes and are eager to make sure he shares some of the political pain from the shutdown.
    The Tea Party wanted a shutdown. They hate government. They own this. The President and Sen. Reid like what government can do (e.g. Obamacare).

    What is wrong with this cult in the House? This is what they and they alone wanted.

    So they should own the entire thing and quit trying to drag The President, Sen. Reid and the Democratic party into their destruction of the country and global markets.

    "I am not interested in picking up crumbs of compassion thrown from the table of someone who considers himself my master. I want the full menu of rights." (From "You Said a Mouthful" by Bishop Desmond Tutu - South African bishop & activist, b.1931)

    by FiredUpInCA on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 08:10:38 AM PDT

    •  Tea Party Logic (14+ / 0-)

      We hate Obama.  Therefore we do everything to block his agenda even if it hurts the country.
      And if the country gets hurt, that's Obama's fault. Why? Because we hate him.

      (head scratch)

      Evolution IS Intelligent Design!

      by msirt on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 08:22:59 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Nope. (0+ / 0-)

        It's not about Obama. It's about the "D" next to his name, and the principles that "D" stands for. They've been going down this road for a long, long time. Remember how they did Clinton? Any Dem anywhere is a collateral target, because all they want is to defund and eliminate government. Full stop.

        "Lone catch of the moon, the roots of the sigh of an idea there will be the outcome may be why?"--from a spam diary entitled "The Vast World."

        by bryduck on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 10:10:37 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Exactly! So well said. GOP owns this fiasco 100% (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Jerry056, Mistral Wind, FiredUpInCA, Siri

      and the more time passes and the more Americans sign up for Obamacare aka ACA, while the GOP-initated shutdown drags on, the worse it will get for them.

      It's like if a small toddler throws a series of horrible tantrums because he doesn't like the idea of a newly arrived infant sibling.  Too bad, kiddo.  Sibling is here, and sibling is here to stay.

    •  The initial reading from the news reporting and (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      jeturek, FiredUpInCA

      the public is that the GOP basically owns this shutdown.  Why would Reid want to own any part of it?  Poor strategy by Boehner.  He is going to keep the pedal to the metal, however, and push this to the debt ceiling deadline. The Democrats, for their part, have been remarkably sober minded and prescient about how this will all play out. They have assumed for weeks that the GOP was going to go into the shutdown and push for a default.  That's why Obama made the outreach to the business community because he told them that he could not stop it from happening.

      Though it makes me ill to think about all the people who are impacted by this shutdown, I think we need to have this fight once and for all.  We should prepare to hold out for as long as it takes, and it could take months at this point.  The GOP might be able to raise the Dems' negatives but they will never be able to erase the notion that they cannot be trusted with government.  The GOP has not understood that they lost the congressional elections in 96, 98, 00, 06, 08, 12 because people fear them and don't think they are fit to govern.  They won in 02 because of the march to war in Iraq and held serve in 04 because of 9-11/gay marriage/Bush's reelection.  In other words, they changed the subject.

      In 2014, the American voters will have a very clear understanding of how strident, inflexible, heartless and thoughtless the GOP can be, and how moderate GOPers are no buffer or restraint on the party's extremist tendencies.  Frankly, that's a better electoral framework for Democrats than we could have set up ourselves.

      Global Shakedown - Alternative rock with something to say. Check out their latest release, "A Time to Recognize": Available on iTunes, Amazon, Google Play, Spotify and other major online music sites. Visit http://www.globalshakedown.com.

      by khyber900 on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 09:00:33 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Procedural games (5+ / 0-)

    On Rachel last night I heard Louise Slaughter say that the reason the GOP House proposed to go to conference was to break the ability of Reid to use the majority vote instead of a 60 vote margin.

    She said that once Reid concedes to one of these little ploys, he'd have to go back to filibuster-land.

    Anyone else hear this and can explain it further?

    Fox's Brian Kilmeade on Starbucks' decision to ban guns in stores: "Real simple - if you have a gun, go to Dunkin Donuts."

    by NCJan on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 08:10:39 AM PDT

  •  The 1% blackmails Obama: US government has been sh (0+ / 0-)
  •  Worth of one man's ego... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Aquarius40

    weighed against the fragility of the US economy (including all those around the world which depend on it) and the full faith and credit of the US treasury system....

    A truly pitiful  and weak sight to behold.

    "I know the meaning of life. It doesn't help me a bit."

    by dss on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 08:11:46 AM PDT

  •  The shutdown will last until the debt limit. (10+ / 0-)

    I think only then will there be enough pressure for the "moderates" to force Boehner's hand, and make him call a vote on the clean CR.
    His whole motivation in this farce is to try and hold his caucus together. He knew he had to go all the way to shutdown to prevent the Tea Baggers from open revolt, but the debt limit deadline may provoke a similar revolt from the so called 'moderates."
    We'll see. All this is predicated on the Democrats holding the line. So far they've been united and strong, but the Republicans believe that they will eventually cave in and negotiate. I really want to believe the Dems. will hold, but past history makes me very nervous.

    •  Yeah, at least two weeks. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      FiredUpInCA

      There won't be any significant developments until the Debt Limit deadline. Meanwhile, we get good press and moderates see us with more sympathy every day.

      The victorious strategist only seeks battle after the victory has been won, whereas he who is destined to defeat first fights and afterwards looks for victory.

      by Pacifist on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 08:41:13 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Obama won't permit a default (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        slinkerwink

        He will either negotiate some sort of face-saving deal with the House GOP, or he will consider extra-constitutional means to avoid default.

        Nothing will happen until the debt limit deadline.  Then a deal will be struck.  Obama can't let the plane crash, or everybody dies, including him.  The Tea Party has a martyr complex, and doesn't care if everybody dies.  It is "cleansing".  And, the House GOP is 90+% secure in 2014, and this will only help gin-up their base for that election.  This will have no appreciable impact on their House majority.

        But, Obama can't be the president on who's watch the entire US economy and the dollar as the world standard crashed and burned.  History won't remember that some anonymous "House GOP" crashed the plane.  They'll only remember that Obama was the captain when the plane crashed.  That is the curse of being the adult in the room.    Sometimes, you have to give in to a child's tantrum to avoid breaking all of the nice things in the room.    The other option (extra-constitutional dumb "trillion dollar coin", etc), will get Obama impeached, and he knows it.  That would be hell for his legacy.  

        That is why the end game here will involve a Dem concession of some kind.  

        •  I hope you're mistaken. (0+ / 0-)

          Thinking back to conflicts of this scale, I don't think Wilson (for example) is blamed for the League of Nations failure. At least I don't blame him. On the other side of the equation, I think of Clinton's success during the last shutdown.

          The victorious strategist only seeks battle after the victory has been won, whereas he who is destined to defeat first fights and afterwards looks for victory.

          by Pacifist on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 09:31:18 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Agreed. If they give up the goat on the CR (0+ / 0-)

      or if Boehner scraps the Hastert Rule to pass a clean Bill we're looking at a disaster come the debt increase. My bet is that Boehner holds out until then (while his Party continues their shutdown/fundraising drive) before any progress is made. The only bright spot is that it improves our chances of disarming the House's suicide vest for good come 2014. Those same 40-50 Baggers will likely still be safe in their heavily protected, gerrymandered districts but that leaves many more Repubs much more vulnerable and they are slowly becoming keenly aware of it.

  •  Idon'tknow what the rest of you think... (11+ / 0-)

    but in my honest opinion the entire responsibility of this shutdown rests solely on the shoulders of John Boehner. No matter the politcal consequences, it is the sole decision of Boehner to not put the Senate bill up for an up or down vote that has caused this shutdown. I say we focus blame where it belongs, soley at the feet of John "fucking" Boehner.

    All he needs to do to end this is to bring the Senate's clean CR to a vote and let it pass with democratic support. Until then he should be considered the traitor to the US government that he is.

    The man is depicable and has no business serving the interests of this country. In my mind, the man is a traitor to his country. I only hope history remembers him that way.

    •  The Teahaddists have hung him out to dry (0+ / 0-)

      but laying it all at Boner's feet gives them a scapegoat they can wash their hands of.  They'll plant the "rouge agent" seed in the minds of the public and cluck about what a shame it is that one man let the power of his office go to his head while the rest of them held out hope that he'd come to his senses, but alas t'was not to be.

      No.  No and again no.  A THOUSAND times no.  Every single fuckhead Teahaddist needs to be held accountable for this travesty.

      And the next one of these fuckstains that calls this a "War" should be slapped with a charge of treason, which is legally defined as "The betrayal of one's own country by waging war against it or by consciously or purposely acting to aid its enemies."

      I'll believe corporations are people when one comes home from Afghanistan in a body bag.

      by mojo11 on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 09:23:40 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  If he's more worried about his Speakership... (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    erratic, hulibow, beemerr90s, FiredUpInCA

    He's already lost. This is the definition of clinging to power when your support is gone and is a microcosm of the entire Republican party these days. They don't realize that they've lost it. The midterm elections will have to really batter them so that the old timers in the GOP wake the frack up and stop this nonsense.

    The most dangerous... programs, from a movement conservative's point of view, are the ones that work the best and thereby legitimize the welfare state. Krugman

    by BasharH on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 08:13:37 AM PDT

  •  he's going to find out soon enough (8+ / 0-)

    Reid isn't caving this time.  He has no reason to: the debt ceiling fight is looming, and the government has already shut down.  Which means, contrary to what Costa says, the Republican moderates are going to launch a rebellion - a real one, and momentum is growing for it.  He'll be forced by his conference to bring the clean CR to a vote.  This is a winner-take-all situation.

    "Kossacks are held to a higher standard. Like Hebrew National hot dogs." - blueaardvark

    by louisev on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 08:13:41 AM PDT

    •  You'd better hope not,... (0+ / 0-)

      because the Dems haven't won one of those since the Johnson administration.

      And, Reid will cave,...only if, and when, Obama tells him to.  Doesn't it alarm you a little that there is going to be this conference at the WH with leadership of both parties?  If you are unwilling to negotiate, then why have that meeting?  What could there be to talk about?

  •  Well, that's not very good news. (5+ / 0-)

    We're basically stuck with a Congressional version of "Speed" - "We can't stop this bus or it will explode!".

    There was an interesting reference in an NYT article today:

    For nearly three years, Mr. Boehner has been vexed by an ungovernable conservative group made of up ideologically committed conservatives from safe House seats. The group has defied his leadership, rallied others to its cause and worn its gadfly status proudly. Earlier this year, the speaker disregarded them and passed three major bills that attracted only a minority of his party. Instead, he relied on Democratic votes to pass a budget plan that allowed taxes to rise on the rich, relief for victims of Hurricane Sandy and an expansion of the Violence Against Women Act.

    That nucleus of that group has stuck in the leadership’s craw for some time. Representative Justin Amash, Republican of Michigan, has voted against Republican positions 136 times in his short stretch in Congress. Representative Paul Broun, Republican of Georgia, has voted no on Republican motions 84 times. Representative Thomas Massie, a freshman from Kentucky, is rising in the pesky ranks with 91 no votes in nine months.

    In March, Representatives Matt Salmon and David Schweikert, both Arizona Republicans, responded with a threat to bring down any bill that did not have overwhelming Republican support through procedural maneuvers. The speaker has refrained ever since.

    I don't remember hearing about this threat from Salmon & Schweikert before. Assuming that Boehner did pull the trigger on a clean CR, would it be possible for a few Reps to basically shut down passage of any bills?

    PS still totally in favor of Dems holding the line on this one, of course.

    •  it would not be possible for a minority to stop it (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      erratic

      assuming that Boehner whipped the non-TP Republicans to vote yes on a clean CR.  Even if Boehner could only line up half the Republicans, that would still give the clean CR 316 votes.

      Boehner could just push that through with a 2/3rds vote and it would be over (until Oct 17th when we hit the debt ceiling).

      The truth is that Boehner likes the TP.  He (and the GOP bigwigs) still see them as the only route to electoral success for the party.  So when Ted Cruz says jump, he makes the other R's jump too.  The only problem they have with their current course of action is that it's really unpopular.  Boehner doesn't want to re-open the government, he wants to avert the blame for his actions away from himself.

      •  Thx sweatyb! (0+ / 0-)

        I didn't frame my question correctly. In the event of the passage of a clean CR, is there a possibility that a few Reps could respond by basically shutting down the passage of any future bills?

        •  I'm not sure what the play is there (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          erratic

          I don't think so.  I feel like any sort of shenanigans that abused the rules would need the support of the speaker and at least 1/3rd of the House.  
          I am not sure the Tea Party has the numbers nor could it really sustain that kind of pressure.

          The issue would be that Boehner would need the Democrats to pass anything.  In that case he couldn't run in the next election as being "Against the Nazi-Socialist-Kenyan in the White House" or whatever the rabid Republican voter-base likes to hear.  He'd have to run on what he actually did for his constituents.

          I've been kicking around the theory that Boehner is hoping the Tea Party will exhaust itself in the next week and he'll bring forward a clean CR, open the gov't and we'll have a quiet passage of the debt ceiling increase before Oct 17th.  

          It makes a perverse kind of sense as long as the Teahadists are in on the game.  It's better to have the radicals shutdown the government for a few days than it is to have them threaten the full faith and credit of the United States.

  •  I still fear we will blink first (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    karmacop, Subterranean, Gilpin Guy

    If the Democrats hold firm it will be a miracle; it's not in our party's DNA.

    •  Obama is our firewall (0+ / 0-)

      He isn't running for reelection ever again and can veto anything that stinks.  He has learned that you can't work with Republicans.  You can only deal with them so if the phoenix rises from the wreckage of our economy and future acts of political terrorism are thwarted then he has to take a stand regardless of the loss and pain in individual lives.  This really sucks but he can't surrender the Affordable Care Act at this point for 45 days of government operation.

  •  I think Boehnerland is bluffing. (0+ / 0-)

    I think there's a concerted behind-the-scenes effort to shore up the campaign coffers of more moderate GOPers to withstand primary challenges, and until that's in place and those folks receive some editorial cover from their party flacks, nothing will happen.  Boehner holds the only remaining card the GOP has -- the clean CR -- and if he uses it too soon, we could end up with an even more Tea-infused House in 2015.  I don't think the GOP wants that, if only for the ultimate preservation of their party.

    "Get over it...and get out of the way." -- Gov. Steve Beshear (D-KY)

    by mspicata on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 08:16:37 AM PDT

  •  Discharge petition? (0+ / 0-)

    Is it possible for Dems and the few not entirely batshit insane members of the Republican party to bypass the Speaker with a petition of discharge?

    1. Books are for use.

    by looty on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 08:17:50 AM PDT

    •  someone said (0+ / 0-)

      that a discharge petition only works for a bill that's been stuck in committee for over 30 days.

    •  that's the pressure point (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      bryduck

      the "moderate" Republicans are walking around saying "We'd like to end the shutdown but our hands are tied!"

      And the discharge petition is why that's bullshit.  If the moderates really wanted to turn the lights back on they could do it.  But they aren't moderates.  They're cowards who like their cushy jobs and uncontested districts and will take whatever position the GOP leadership requires.

      Dems should be canvassing those districts putting the word out that their Republican representative could end this all today.  That's how the stalemate breaks.  Not with Boehner facing off against the Tea Party, but with the moderates breaking away from the Republican party because they cannot afford to let this drag on.

      •  yes.. Cowards! And Bullshit! oh.. and rules... (0+ / 0-)

        Per House Parliamentary Rules:

        It would need to sit unreported for 30 legislative days to be eligible for a Discharge Petition.

        Since it is budget related if the Petition passed, the CR would require an immediate session of the Conference of the Whole wherein the GOP can amend it at will to re-defund Obamacare.

        It does not bring the bill to the floor immediately, it merely automatically places it on the calendar with priority as "Special Business" which would be addressed on the 2nd and 4th Monday of each month.  So it would have to wait until Oct 14th unless the Speaker opted to bring it forward ahead of time.

        Красота спасет мир --F. Dostoevsky

        by Wisper on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 08:40:15 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  might as well pack it in then (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          jeturek
          Since it is budget related if the Petition passed, the CR would require an immediate session of the Conference of the Whole wherein the GOP can amend it at will to re-defund Obamacare.
          So the Republicans would join with the Democrats to get a clean CR to the floor only to rush back to join with the Tea Party to amend the clean CR so it can't pass the Senate?  You're not thinking things through.

          This isn't about rules.  The Tea Party reps give a rat's ass about your rules.  That's why they get boss Boehner around.  They're in control because the moderates are following the rules and letting Boehner tell them what to do.  The moderates go to the press and say, "This isn't our fault!  The Tea Party is out of control!"

          The Tea Party isn't out of control.  It's in complete control.  And it is their fault.  John Boehner and the Tea Party couldn't pass a fart in the House without those spineless cowards.  This ends when they grow a spine, do what their constituents want, and force the clean CR to the floor.

          •  YEAHZ!!!! or something (0+ / 0-)

            Sure, if they truly cross over for a clean CR they can block amendments.  Or they can put in something they think is "reasonable" like Medical Device tax repeal or the Congressional exemption thing they are parading around...

            My point was that the amendment process is open.. its not a simple discharge = up or down vote.

            But aside from your all-over-the-place "Fuck those guys!"screed... "rules" aren't some proposition or theory about what might happen.  They actually DO limit what CAN happen in the house.  Unless the Speaker agrees to bring a clean CR to the floor, a discharge petition can ONLY be done according to the rules... not sure what you are arguing here....

            A measure has to sit unreported for 30 legislative days.  The Senate sent the Clean CR on Sept 27th.  So assuming the House is in session every day during the crisis, it would be eligible to a Discharge Petition on October 29th.  If it had enough signatures IMMEDIATELY, the Clean CR would be forced to a floor vote on November 11th (the second Monday of the month)

            So if you think those rules don't have to be followed, what is your strategy here?  What new rules are we allowed to make up?  Can we just pass it with a minority?  Invite Senators over to vote?  Lock John Boehner in his office and announce that Nancy Pelosi will now be the acting speaker until further notice?

            How's this work... I am sincerely curious...

            Красота спасет мир --F. Dostoevsky

            by Wisper on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 09:14:54 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  what is your point? (0+ / 0-)

              I think my point is pretty clear:  the "moderate" Republicans could get a vote on a clean CR and end the shutdown today.

              I am not an expert on House procedures (as you clearly are) but it's news to me that an overwhelming majority of the members of the House of Representatives have no means of getting a hugely popular bill to the floor?

              I'd be more willing to believe the moderates were powerless if they tried.  They're not willing to even ask Boehner to bring the CR to the floor.

              •  But your point is not correct (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                sweatyb

                The House is not the Senate where each member has a significant amounts of equal rights and priviledge and the "Majority Leader" is more of an agenda coordinator.

                The House has a "Speaker" which is an extraordinarily powerful position.  This has been the case since the 1700's.  This is not new or a GOP thing.  The rules have been in place for a LONG TIME.  The discharge petition has been in the rules since 1910 when the Republicans realized they had an utter and complete TYRANT as a a Speaker (who also appointed himself chair of the Rules committee as well).  That was Joseph Cannon of Illinois.

                At least now, there is some measure to override the will of the Speaker.  Prior to that there was NOTHING the rank and file could do.

                I get what you are trying to say/do but I think my point is also pretty clear:  What you are saying can not be done.  Or even attempted.  It is not allowed in the House.

                ..and by the way, the last time a rule change was attempted to change the Discharge Petition process was 1993 and that change had to be brought to the floor via a discharge petition!  (That bill set the requirement that the signers of any petition must be public.  It cant be a secret vote)

                Красота спасет мир --F. Dostoevsky

                by Wisper on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 09:58:28 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  interesting, thank you (0+ / 0-)

                  you are the first person I have heard aware of this limitation.

                  http://rules-republicans.house.gov/...

                  From everything I've read/heard about the discharge petition it seemed like a pretty good way to advance the CR.  But I see that it is severely limited.

                  So, allow me to rephrase my point.

                  The same dynamic that gives the Tea Party control over Boehner could be used to release Boehner from their grasp.  That is, if the moderates refused to vote for a "dirty" CR, the result would be a clean CR passed out of the House.

                  The fact that the "moderates" are unwilling to pressure Boehner at all suggests that their desire to end the shutdown is not real.  They embrace the vigor of the Tea Party even while they publicly disparage its actions.

    •  Not really. (0+ / 0-)

      There are a bunch of things involved in that course that eat up too much time to make it work out for us, I believe.

      I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.

      by beemerr90s on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 08:44:35 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Need to put pressure on Blue State Republicans (0+ / 0-)

    When people start holding big anti-shutdown rallies in districts won by Obama, but held by GoP congressmen, this thing will end.

    "The Obama Administration has been an unmitigated disaster" - Osama Bin Laden

    by Explorer8939 on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 08:18:09 AM PDT

  •  Has Boehner taken a look at the Dow? (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    looty, Gurnt, PsychoSavannah, Mistral Wind

    The Republican shut down is crashing it. There go  business investments, everyone's 401ks,etc. I guess the Republicans don't care about any of that--just about appeasing the crazy tea party.

  •  Here's Boehner's solution (0+ / 0-)

    It's called a 12-step program followed by a public apology on the cover of People Magazine.

  •  As long as the shutdown doesn't hurt ... (0+ / 0-)

    ... large numbers of Americans, it's like the Afghan War. Most people don't care until either the shutdown personally impacts them, or the Taliban attack their home.

    "The Obama Administration has been an unmitigated disaster" - Osama Bin Laden

    by Explorer8939 on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 08:19:05 AM PDT

  •  Sounds about right (0+ / 0-)

    These republicans have never met a democrat they couldn't roll, so it makes sense they would think holding out a bit longer will break Reid and Obama.  

    They're probably right.  

    "When I was an alien, cultures weren't opinions" ~ Kurt Cobain, Territorial Pissings

    by Subterranean on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 08:19:06 AM PDT

  •  We are in transformational timesl (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    kat68

    All things naturally move towards a state of balance if we allow them.

    But of course, balance can be a slippery goal, and it is often the case that we must visit extremes before we can find the middle point of stillness and reconciliation. In visiting these extremes we can easily become disheartened at best, if not downright despairing,.  We must be encouraged not to give in to despair in the coming days, weeks, and perhaps months.

    Balance is anything but peaceful. It may require the meeting of one force with an opposing one equally disruptive and powerful, such as we are seeing played out in Congress right now. It may require the exertion of enormous effort, more than we feel we can sustain for the long haul, but the dems and Pres O must stand firm. Balance may require intense and emotionally charged negotiation to ensure that all prevailing needs are met before peace can take a hold and the rethugs need to realize this and start honest negotiations, not gun to the head terrorism.

    Balance, it seems, may not always be as peaceful as it’s made out to be. For only by meeting the challenges of life with equal force in the form of resilience, commitment and acceptance (another often overlooked force of nature!) can we begin to balance the more extreme aspects of this transformational time.  The rethugs are obviously unaware of this important time we are living in - we will bring them kicking and screaming into a balanced state.

    Allowing the force of change to repel and push us back into a state of fear or denial merely means we must meet those same forces with greater strength further down the line as President Obama and the dems have indicated. But if we commit to meeting them now with the inner strength required to balance them and continue forward in a state of grace, true peace lies on the other side of this meeting, hard won and yet enduring for that very reason: the peace born of knowing what is truly required for balance to prevail, alongside the willingness to do whatever it takes.

    Not compromising with the rethugs will bring this balance about.  They must stay strong - especially Reid and Obama - and not fear the consequences of their actions.  The only ones to fear the consequences of their actions are the rethugs - as long as they continue to terrorize America.

    11:11 being mindful and keepin' it real

    by Raggedy Ann on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 08:19:17 AM PDT

  •  Leader??? A mere coward PUPPET! (0+ / 0-)
  •  More committed Democratic voters needed (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wyckoff

    This is happening because of the 2010 elections. Many potential voters did not care to know what Republicans would be doing and stayed home in 2010. They elected people like Scott Walker, let Republicans gerrymander. The 2012 election was not enough to regain a House majority.
    It should be no surprise what Republicans are doing. Their Right Wing has been at work for years. Remember a book called 'Mein Kampf?' Many did not take it seriously and the world paid a heavy price.
    And I am voting in the Houston city election this November 2013. Every election is an election.
    We kossacks need to keep on all our friends to vote no matter what.

    Censorship is rogue government.

    by scott5js on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 08:20:37 AM PDT

  •  what, is he popping viagra? nt (0+ / 0-)
  •  So, basically a testosterone death match? (0+ / 0-)

    Again, why we need more women in government.   Not Bachmanns, obviously, as she serves some unseen master.  But jeebus--here is a guy afraid to do his job because he'll look weak?  As if he isn't the worst SoH of all time???

  •  Soooooooo.... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    FiredUpInCA

    They'll prolong the shutdown, making themselves more and more unpopular until Harry Reid wants to take part of the pain for the shutdown.

    Oh yeah, that's a good plan.

    "Don't be defeatist, dear. It's very middle class." - Violet Crawley

    by nightsweat on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 08:23:55 AM PDT

  •  Parliment (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    sneakers563

    My understandings of parliment are incredibly weak at best, but I think this is where a parliment system would be so much better.  The few remaining reasonably Republicans in the House could actually team up with Democrats to force a vote of no confidence in Boehner and get him replaced with some other Republican who would bring a vote to the floor.  

  •  I'm more than a little worried about their ... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    LilPeach

    piecemeal approach.  Soon it will start: "We tried to assure that VA programs will continue and that nurses in VA hospitals will be paid, but the Democrats blocked it.  We tried to enable you tourists to visit National Parks and the Smithsonian museums, but the Democrats blocked it. We tried to enable people to get experimental cancer treatments at NIH, but the Democrats blocked it."  

    If they manage to create enough pressure through this approach to get Democrats to cave on the piecemeal bills, they basically get to eliminate the parts of the federal government that they don't like anyway (EEOC, OSHA, EPA, CPSC, HUD, etc.)

    Bin Laden is dead. GM and Chrysler are alive.

    by leevank on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 08:26:09 AM PDT

  •  Proposed compromise (0+ / 0-)

    How about the White House give Boehner this: Democrats agree not to call it Obamacare?

  •  The people can make him cave. (0+ / 0-)

    Let the polls show a 70 to 30 % poll difference on everything they poll and I think they change their tune. Come on independents, otherwise known as Republicans too embarrassed to admit it, stand up and stop the madness.

  •  The dems better not give one inch. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Mistral Wind

    My daughter is being affected by the shut down and would love to go back to work but not at the expense of giving into the idiots on the right.  Not one inch.  Clean CR or nothing.  

  •  This sounds right though, it's faith based politic (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    FiredUpInCA

    We're in a for a long, ugly haul here. But the Dems must stand firm.

    Imagine the most profound idea ever conceptualized occupying this space. Now expect exactly the opposite. You'll never be disappointed.

    by Gurnt on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 08:28:25 AM PDT

  •  Maybe we need to bribe Boehner (0+ / 0-)

    to do this?

    That's the best chance I see of this.  Buffett or Gates needs to arrange a large deposit for Boehner.

    I know he might lose his speakership but I think that's going to happen anyway.

    www.tapestryofbronze.com

    by chloris creator on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 08:29:18 AM PDT

  •  Why should they even bother? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    FiredUpInCA, rovertheoctopus

    They've finally got what they want: limited government. Everything they despise has closed shop. Except Obamacare, and they will never give up the fight on that.

    "Know that it is easier to get into something than it is to get out of it." - Donald Rumsfeld

    by teej on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 08:29:43 AM PDT

  •  why are they doing this??? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Jerry056

    ...it's so infuriating! they have lost their damned minds. unfortunately, due to our pathetic media and the general stupidity if a large portion of our population, pressure will be on for the Democrats to cave.

    Democrats better not blink.

    "An inglorious peace is better than a dishonorable war." -Mark Twain

    by humanistique on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 08:32:23 AM PDT

  •  Discharge Petition (0+ / 0-)

    Anyone have an answer to this:

    Is there a rule which prevents the House Dems. from circulating a "Discharge Petition" to bring the Senate's "clean" CR to the House floor?

    Since with a number of moderate House Republicans saying they would vote for the Senate CR if brought to the floor, it would seem that this is a situation which is ripe for starting a Discharge Petition.  The mere threat of such a petition might just work to pressure Boehner to bring the CR to the floor and avoid the possible embarrassment of being overruled by fellow Republicans.  Therefore, my guess is there has to be a procedural reason why Dems. can't start a Discharge Petition.  Perhaps it has something to do with the fact that such petitions are for bills which are stuck in committee and the CR comes from the Senate, not a committee.  Please respond!

    "Some men see things as they are and ask, 'Why?' I dream of things that never were and ask, 'Why not?"

    by Doctor Who on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 08:33:48 AM PDT

    •  Yes (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Doctor Who

      I diaried this.

      It would need to sit unreported for 30 legislative days to be eligible for a Discharge Petition.

      Since it is budget related if the Petition passed, the CR would require an immediate session of the Conference of the Whole wherein the GOP can amend it at will to re-defund Obamacare.

      It does not bring the bill to the floor immediately, it merely automatically places it on the calendar with priority as "Special Business" which would be addressed on the 2nd and 4th Monday of each month.  So it would have to wait until Oct 14th unless the Speaker opted to bring it forward ahead of time.

      Красота спасет мир --F. Dostoevsky

      by Wisper on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 08:38:21 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  You can write to boehner (0+ / 0-)

    at speaker.gov and tell him what you think. I have been writing my idiotic Representative (Peter Knownothing Roskam) every day.

    Beyond that, I think this is a game that will end badly for Boehner and the Tea Party. They no longer have much support or leverage. When the Chicago Tribune calls them nuts, they have lost. The Trib's editorial this morning did call them nuts.

    I also think that The President and Harry Reid have a death pact on this one. They are finally really mad.

    Republicans want smaller gov't for the same reason crooks want fewer cops. - James Carville Support Small Business: Shop Kos Katalogue

    by wyckoff on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 08:40:48 AM PDT

  •  OFA is having a rally where I am, today (0+ / 0-)

    Our chances improve if we support these events.

    so I'm going, and I'd like to encourage everyone else here to do the same.

  •  I have an idea! (0+ / 0-)

    Yesterday, I heard a whiny Repub bastard on NPR say, "They keep demanding a clean CR. They won't even consider anything else. We couldn't even name a post office in the bill and they'd reject that! A post office!"

    Here's the compromise: we let them name a post office. Hell, if some stinky little town in deep red territory wants to rename their post office in honor of Grover Norquist, let 'em!

    You're gonna need a bigger boat.

    by Debby on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 08:50:17 AM PDT

  •  absolutely no concessions (0+ / 0-)

    they cannot be rewarded for this behavior. this is lesson time. nobody but the House Republicans should take any blame for this.

    come on America: this is basic civics stuff. the House GOP is using extortion tactics to try to circumvent democracy. this is not OK. not even close.

  •  I've said for weeks that the tea party (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    DeeDee001

    was going to insist on a shutdown. They believe the Democrats will blink in the chaos and that the American people will lose interest and blame both sides after several weeks.  Once Democrats feel pressure and responsibility for those who are hurt by the shutdown, they think there will be pressure to cave.  They want to test the Democrats' stomach for battle.

    I believe the House GOP (and by that I mean the entire House GOP - not this nonsense that it's limited to the tea party faction) is going to go past the debt ceiling deadline, careen to default and then re-evaluate their options.

    When they realize that Obama isn't going to cave on the debt ceiling, they will do a strategic retreat and pass a temp CR but will reserve the right to do this again.  That way, they can get out of the glare for a few weeks and then use the tactic again a few weeks later when the public is less focused on them as the sole source and cause of this.

    Global Shakedown - Alternative rock with something to say. Check out their latest release, "A Time to Recognize": Available on iTunes, Amazon, Google Play, Spotify and other major online music sites. Visit http://www.globalshakedown.com.

    by khyber900 on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 08:51:04 AM PDT

  •  Maybe this is a breakdown? (0+ / 0-)

    Anecdotal, I know. But I once worked with a manager who was a recovering alcoholic and despite his fight with sobriety, which we were expected to respect and handle gingerly, he was kind of a douche. He loved music, and apparently his 12-step sponsors tried to keep him on the straight and narrow by pointing out all of his heroes who struggled with sobriety - Keith Richards, Eric Clapton, etc. Instead of thinking "whoa, they're just like me and my troubles," he thought "wow, I'm just like them and their epic tales of debauchery!" Opposite effect.

    Anywho, this was a retail sales job, and he liked to steal sales, create more work for you so you had less time for customers, and we got into it more than once. Then he started slipping, mentally - I don't know if he had fallen off the wagon or the desire to fall off the wagon was making hims make bad judgment calls, but he started sabotaging the store we worked for because he just couldn't handle the pressure. I remember we were assigned to reposition items in the audio electronics part of the store. I reorganized everything while he effed off, except one section - car stereos, all of which were wired to a wall and were expected to play for our customers. This guy, when finally confronted to do his job, took each stereo, removed the wiring harness (which makes it easy to hook it up to your car, or in this case, the wall, knowing which wire would work with which speaker or the power or the ground wire), threw each stereo in one pile, each harness in another pile, looked at the mess he made, and offered me a whopping 20 bucks to clean up his mess.

    This store is now a Staples, and yet rumors of the ghost of my laughter still resonate within its walls.

    Shortly thereafter, he "took a vacation" and I wound up cleaning up his mess for free. Dang, should have taken the double sawbuck when I had the chance.

    But all this backstory is to illustrate the following point - he was a drunk who made bad decisions whether on the wagon or off. He couldn't handle pressure, period. And this was an electronics store, one where he climbed the ranks to an assistant manager, and he crumbled under THAT pressure.

    Who's to say Boehner, with his legendary love of drink, isn't crumbling under pressure exponentially more grueling than a manager at a Best-Buy-wannabe store? His refusal to compromise, his inability to negotiate, might just be his way of sabotaging his job, his metaphorical tearing up the car stereo wall. This may be a cry for help we're not hearing because what he's doing to us is making us cry out for help even louder.

    And if that's the case, God help us all, because he's got vicious little gnomes in his party undercutting whatever power he's supposed to wield, and everyone is watching.  He can't take time to go to rehab NOW, and he won't be able to come anywhere near an effective leader until he dries up, which tends to make people irritable and easily agitated.

    Our nation could be going belly up because Johnne Walker Red-Faced can't handle his booze any more and can't not-handle not-drinking his booze.

    You know you're winning a fight against a Republican when they stop mocking your position and start whining about your tone.

    by slappymagoo on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 09:38:31 AM PDT

  •  "Won't allow a vote" sounds, I don't know... (0+ / 0-)

    ...kind of undemocratic and dictatorial.  But it's all Obama's fault for not making nice with Republicans the way Reagan did with Democrats, according to a columnist in my local rag.

    I don't know what's been trickling down, but it hasn't been pleasant---N. Pelosi

    by Russycle on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 09:44:36 AM PDT

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site